Alana's Journey In & Out of Calvinism | Susan Morales
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- In this video, Alana shares her personal experience entering Calvinism and the reasons why she left it many years later.
Eli Ayala Interview on Calvinism:
• Understanding Calvinis...
Does God Order Evil Events Interview with Trinity Radio:
• Understanding God & Ev...
God wants all to be saved?:
• Did Jesus Die For Ever...
God Hardens Hearts?:
• Seminary Professor Dr....
Watch my full Calvinism, Reformed, Provisionism Playlist Here:
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“Joy” song at the end of video by Susan&Ron:
• JOY | Susan&Ron
Welcome new subscribers :) I'm looking forward to making new videos for you guys in the future. Check out Alana’s video responding to some of the comments below here: ruclips.net/video/8HT5c9Qe9eQ/видео.html
One thing to consider is for the Protestant Reformation u had Calvin, Luther, Zwinglie, and their writtings severed the Church and broke that severed piece into pieces. Alana just took out the doctrines of Calvin what was a primarch of the Protestant Rebellion. Now go read Martin Luther's amd Zwinglie's own words and compare them to Christ and the scriptures.
I subscibed to Mz. Morales' channel because the straight refutation of reformed theology. It really is evil and a form of spiritual warfare.
Interesting video. I'm a non practising Christian watching from London UK.
I'm at the 9:42 mark.
Some points...
John MacArthur is not a brother in Christ.
Also, seeing a preacher in person and having an emotional attachment based on, say, having a good time that evening being with family/friends doesn't make his doctrine right
Also, salvation can be lost.
This is so interesting!! I grew up in a very devout and hardcore Calvinist church! Love that y’all are bringing light to this tough subject!
Do you still hold to calvinism?
@@ivylagrone8632 I do not. All of the five points can be disproved with the Bible. It took me a long while, but I came completely out of it about 5 years ago. I really believe it was the reason that I stayed lost until almost the age of 24, because it was constantly taught that some are ordained to eternal life and the rest are left in their lost state.
I really appreciate your question and I am happy to answer anything else on the subject. I am very passionate about getting the truth out there. ☺️
@@thissimplelife653 I am so glad to hear that you do not. But FAR more glad to know that you are a sister in Christ! I can't wait to meet you one day.
I've known about calvinism for a number of years but only had a vague idea of what it really entailed. The more I learn the more distressed I am by what the doctrines really are about and very distressed that people that I respect in many other ways hold to something so very unscriptural...
Our small group started studying Romans a few weeks ago and the teacher of the group is a calvinist. We did not know that when we started attending the study - or that many (if not all) of leaders of the church we now attend are as well. We've only been going there for about a year and a half.
Oddly enough, God led me to study and had prepared me over the last several months to learn more about calvinism. Then it was decided that we'd study this book. I know God prepared me to know and understand this teaching for some reason but our study time together has been a difficult time so far for my husband and I & the teacher of the group & everyone in the group due to leader and I disagreeing quite a lot.
My husband and I are wondering if it would be best to leave the group. The biggest concern I have is that the others in the group that know little to nothing about calvinism would be left without any other interpretation if we left... We are praying very hard for direction and wisdom.
Enjoyed hearing Alana's perspective and journey out of Calvinism. God is so much greater than He is portrayed in Calvinism.
He is!🙌
How is He "portrayed poorly"in Calvinism?
@@JeanmarieRod
He’s portrayed as manipulating all of the evil deeds in the world and getting frustrated over what He Himself does through them.
@@evanu6579 I’d like to read where Calvin ever wrote any such thing. That’s just not true. I’ve read Calvin and hd wrote that God is incapable of doing evil. This kind of reminds me of how the mainstream media misquoted and portrayed Trump for his entire term.
@@JeanmarieRod
WCF states that God has ordained from eternity, all things whatsoever come to pass.
Do you agree with that statement?
I grew ip in a normal christian family. I remember the unspeakable joy I expeienced when I gave my life to Jesus repented of my sins and was forgiven. I received The Joy and Peace that surpasses all understanding!
Then I bumped into hard core calvinism a few months ago and it was them for first time I took a deeper look into the core doctrine of calvinism.
My reaction to it was spiritual angst and physical pain...
It made me sick physically with pain in my whole body to discover how this doctrine is distorting who God is..... the joy of salvation was transformed into fear and uncertainty of who this God I loved maybe is not whom I thought He is. It robbed my joy and the Peace that surpasses all understanding. ...
I therefore know it is a false doctrine and to be rejected as poison...
this is so interesting because i had the exact same reaction. i was sick to my core and felt nothing but confusion. i felt stuck and was afraid to even try anything to be picked back up. it shook my faith and what I knew to be the personal God I fell in love with. he was my rock and this brought up so much confusion and unrest in my heart that i literally lost my will to live. be careful with what you believe
The way you worded your testimony can be dangerous to others because you don't give your life to Jesus to be saved, you believe he gave his life to save us. There are many people out there who will 'give their life' to Jesus over and over and wonder why they still doubt their salvation and it's because they never believed he gave his life for them. It's a subtle difference but it keeps you focused on yourself because you're trying to perform something for God rather than believe His testimony concerning His son. Learning and growing in the knowledge of our savior is the Christian life but as soon as your attention is redirected back towards yourself you lose your confidence and shrink back from God which is our strength. We always want to point people to the healer rather than get them trying to heal themselves which will only bring frustration and doubt which is why so many believers tend to struggle.
The same thing happened to me. I have been a Christian for about 10 years. Had ups and downs with my faith and my walk, but came to know a loving and gracious God. Then I stumbled across the “humble” Paul Washer and this thing called Calvinism. It almost destroyed my faith but in further seeking and study, it has further established my faith and left me firmly planted in the non-Calvinist camp.
So, you know Calvinism is false just because your emotions tell you so and your Joy suddenly disappeared after you came across this teaching?
so true the Lord has sent us a *_COMFORTER_* to guide us in these things! TRUST HIM... and measure all things through God's Word which refutes it.
Thoroughly enjoyed this interview. Alana is so spot on regarding the truth of God’s word vs the anti-biblical calvinistic soteriology.
Amazing how God works! Alana is speaking my heart! Everything I have thought about Calvinism she spoke of. Great job!
I've watched bits and pieces of this interview over the last year but enjoyed watching it from beginning to end again today. God bless you for sharing this Susan. What an amazing testimony. Glory to God! He truly is an amazing and loving God.
Wonderful!
What a great testimony, with important spiritual insights! What a true Berean Alana is,
putting the truth first! May God continue to bless you both and your families! Praise to
the Lord, our great King and Savior!
So well spoken Alana! I completely agree with everything you’ve said. ❤️
Great testimony! It sounds to me like #1 in the list I've been making. 13 Ways People End Up Leaving Calvinism that I have read.
1. Some became willing to test again each of the arguments of Calvinism that they presumed were true only because of the men (books, podcasts) they respected teaching them those premises. They approached them anew for themselves, and from the perspective of a debater who must force themselves to take the other side and to try to see the strongest legitimate arguments for that other perspective.
2. Some of those had started reading through the whole Bible and noting that the tenor of the majority of Scriptures was plainly teaching the opposite of what the few favorite Calvinistic proof texts seem to teach.
3. Some started looking back on their life became convinced in their heart and mind by the HS that they could have done differently at times. They knew this thinking clearly rejects what their deterministic theology says about everything happening in a predestined way.
4. Some started to sincerely listen to good testimonies of former Calvinists and the sound arguments from Scripture that began then to convince them what the HS had been nudging them to reject all along in the harmful doctrines of Calvinism.
5. Some started wondering, after having children of their own, how their love for each of their children, even wayward ones, could be any more than God's for all of His "children" by creation. How could He not give them all sufficient opportunity to seek His mercy and grace? This led them to recheck the underlying teaching and alternative teachings to predestination of a limited elect.
6. Some started seeing the unspiritual responses of some who professed Calvinism, like calling it the “gospel”, or those in leadership being oppressive, plus seeing some other reformed teachings that they felt the Scripture didn't support, all of which caused them to research the points of Calvinism more in depth and that study led them to reject Calvinism.
7. Some started seeing that attributing their own failures/sins to God’s predestination and not accepting personal responsibility for them was a reaction from fleshly pride. They decided to reevaluate the theology that taught them all was predestined to work out only one way. Studying graciously presented teachings contrary to that idea of predestination helped them reject Calvinism.
8. Some researched the Servetus affair and became alarmed by the defense and revision provided by Calvin and Calvinists for such an un-Christian response against heresy. They became willing to research opposing explanations of Romans 9 and other passages, leading them to reject Calvinism.
9. Some saw the hardening effect the teaching of Calvinism was having on their children… producing a fear of God but not a love for God or for the lost. They then prayerfully read through Scriptures and saw more clearly God's universal love, leading them to reject Calvinism's view that God eternally hates most people.
10. Some began reading writings from early Christian history which sounded nothing like Calvinism and even sounded condemnatory to what looks like it.
11. Some didn’t get satisfactory answers to the questions that plagued them. Listen to this personal testimony:
“They couldn't answer my questions. For me there's a point where you think they just don't want to. Then you graduate to - they just can't be bothered. Then you graduate to the realization that it's not that they won't; it's that they can't. Then you either accept the incoherence for whatever reason or you roll up your metaphysical sleeves and get to work finding a system that is more coherent.”
12. Some began to rethink why they should be forced to think God is less merciful. Listen to this personal testimony:
"Seriously though, the thing that really got me rethinking Calvinism was a quote I saw on twitter...: 'Calvinism has taught the church that we should all be shocked that God would show mercy to even one unworthy sinner, but anyone knowing Jesus and His selfless sacrifice on the cross should be shocked that God would refuse to show mercy to even one unworthy sinner!'
...I couldn’t think of anything to say right then so I just went on about my day and forgot about it. That night I was trying to fall asleep and pulled back open twitter and my message box was still open waiting for me to reply... I remember thinking to myself, 'Why do we (Calvinists) work so hard to try and make people think it should shock us that God would be merciful to as few people as we can imagine….'
That question ran through my mind for a good week and I just kept trying to ignore it by telling myself, “My flesh is trying to take glory from God by claiming it for myself.” But deep down I knew that wasn’t my root motive in asking that question. My motive was that I really wanted to highlight God’s love for everyone and his genuine desire for their salvation. Deep down I wanted for God to be more loving and desirous of others salvation than I am. I know that my heart’s desire for my sister and many of my close friends that remain lost is for them to believe and be saved and I wanted to believe that God really wants that too. I knew that consistent Calvinism doesn’t allow for that and that was my struggle.
So, that’s when I went back and read... articles about how defending free will is actually more about defending God’s holiness and something just kind of clicked."
13. Some felt deceptive during evangelism trying to answer sincere questions about how God felt about the specific sinner in front of them. Listen to this personal testimony:
"It was not until I left Calvinism that I was able to share the Gospel without measuring my words or evading questions.... I was struggling to express the most plain Biblical truths all because I didn’t want to violate Calvinism. It is a terrible feeling to be sharing the Gospel, and at the same time hoping the hearer doesn’t ask you too much about it. I have shared the Gospel on the corner and had the fellas ask questions like the one below:
'Man Jay, I have done so much dirt. You think God wants to save me'?
In my heart i want to just blurt out YES! But instead, I am thinking 'I wish he said save 'someone like me'; then I could technically say 'Yes'. Instead I respond: 'It doesn’t matter what you’ve done. That won’t stop God from saving you.' Now I feel dirty because he’s trying to make it personal and I’m trying to make it general. He thinks I am talking about him (which is what I want him to think). The truth is I’m talking about the concept (technically a person’s sin doesn’t stop God from saving them). The man wants hope for salvation and I’m scared to give it to him because I don’t want to violate the GOSPEL! Lord forgive me."
Another interview! Well done.
Your video has blessed me. I recently found out my Son has become Calvinist and this gives me insight on how to talk to him. Praying for you!
THANK YOU ALANA for acknowledging this IS NOT a secondary issue! As a man, I appreciate your boldness and integrity. Almost all the men I read or listen to hold that this is a secondary issue and I have to question their intellectual honesty for that. I will go to your channel and subscribe for sure!
So are you saying that believing in the doctrines of grace makes someone not be a Christian?
I've heard most people say it's a secondary issue for years and because if they I've gone back and forth as to what to do about it. Recently I've realized the plain truth - it's heresy. And it must be dealt with. It twists scripture to make God a monster. And it appeals to those who haven't recognized pride in their lives and they ask "why did God elect me?" That's the first clue that's it's a man made doctrine. It's not about us it's all about the goodness of the God Who made us and also made a way back to Him, if we will hear His voice and not harden our hearts. (Corrected spelling error)
@@innovationhq8230 You need to believe in the Gospel not the Doctrines of Grace.
Love your heart for the Lord Alana it’s so inspiring. 💜
Thank you sharing this great interview with Alana! So many need to hear this truth! Amen!
I really enjoyed this interview. It was thought-provoking.
So glad to hear this! I've watched Alana for a long time.
Alana I love when you said that Calvinism makes us out to be garbage but we were made in the image of God.
Evolutionists makes us out to be just a bit higher than the apes, but we were created in the image of God.
Now lets see? Who would want us to degrade ourselves and slander the image of God? BING! Satan and his fallen Angels!
Your testimony has choked me up! (and I am a big tuff man) To hear of a real conversion like yours is so beautiful. Go sister, go!
God has big plans for you witnessing to the lost Calvinists, I am sure.
Thanks for posting.
TRUTH IN LOVE
I am not into Calvinism or Arminianism... I lean more so on the views of Provisionism
How do you mean?
@@JeanmarieRod provisionist don't have the presupposition that election is to salvation but rather to service. Predestination is to the promises (calling, justification, glorification) rather than to belief.
Just avoid ”isms” read the Bible
Alana I relate to you! All you said all your thoughts! You are not wearing anybody out...not those who really are seeking Truth....
You are not vulnerable! Jesus is with you!
@@DS-ll5fn exactly. I’ve realized I want to stay away from any label except Christian! All the isms have their pitfalls.
Thank you for posting. Very encouraging.
Alana’s perspective on Calvinism is very good. Thanks for the great interview!
She sadly does not understand reformed theology.
@@innovationhq8230 This is the same thing committed marxists say when their worldview is critiqued: "The Soviet Union/Cuba/China/Vietnam/Cambodia/etc. wasn't REAL Marxism." Can you demonstrate exactly what it is she "doesn't understand"? I've heard this same statement leveled at former Pastors and professors who taught Calvinist theology. Just saying "you just don't understand" is not a serious objection. Please demonstrate from her words and Calvinist sources. Links would be helpful.
Thank you for speaking up!
I loved hearing from you, Alana!! 🤗
Thanks so much:)
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
"And I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men to me" John 12:32
@@kaylanobaka9112 Then you are teaching universalism which is flaming heresy. Running to that text like and not understanding the context is the typical thing for very ignorant people to do.
@@innovationhq8230 yes, and thats what happens when you say that word means to drag (even though its not translated that way...)
Also, just because Jesus took on everyone's sin doesnt mean universalism. Please do some proper research on that "accusation" because it's the most ignorant and unresearched bias to throw around and you clearly havent considered ALL of the commentaries before settling on that one otherwise you wouldnt say something so far fetched from what the other side is actually saying. Defeat the steelman, not your strawman..
But seriously dont bother replying. I can see from your other comments youre not the type to think through your arguements and do some proper research so.. have a good night ✌
Thanks for discussing my question! One verse I would love to point out because she kept referencing back to this idea.
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20.
We must personally read the Word and not interpret Scripture through feelings, catechisms, creeds, councils, etc.
Good point! I just commented something similar about the interpretation of scriptures. We need to seek God for wisdom and understanding like Jesus has. Jesus pointed out all of the hypocrisy of the Pharisees interpretation of the scriptures that deceived many.
I agree with your conclusion but I would disagree with your use of that passage. It wouldn’t be worth pointing out if Catholicism hadn’t used this passage as a gateway for a requirement to have a Pope interpret things for them.
From the context, this passage seems to be saying that when the prophets of old gave prophecies, they spoke/wrote what they were told to speak/write and didn’t try to give their own interpretation of what they were told.
Or they saw a vision and described the vision and didn’t try to interpret what that vision meant by their own personal understanding.
If these men who gave prophecies all tried giving their own personal interpretations then we could have a messed up bible. We can count on what was written as straight from God.
That’s what I believe this passage is saying.
God bless.
@@evanu6579 I agree with your contextual example 100%. That was my intended point bringing up that verse.
I totally agree with her on Calvinism. I have Calvinist people and friends that I love but Calvinism itself, it’s really a totally different religion than Christianity and a different God. It’s too different to say it’s just secondary.
Agree, that is why i do not believe anyome who follows calvinism are saved, they need to get out..
If you believe that then you believe in a false god.
Thank you for having the courage to discover and follow Truth that has led you out of Calvinism.
I'm so happy you were delivered from calvinist doctrines of twisticism darlin . I rejoice everytime I hear this wonderful knows.
May GOD bless you n yours and I hope them mean Ole calvinist aren't being mean to you like I imagine they are .
Oh, my goodness. I just want to hug you. If you love truth and are devoted to God’s word, you’re with me, and I’m just so glad to hear your voice. I asked the Lord this morning to connect you in true fellowship with true saints. Not that these in your church do not know God at all, but as a woman who attended a Calvinist church for two years, as a nonCalvinist, I may understand a few things about what you’re saying.
I have recently come across an expressed idea for unity among the saints of so many backgrounds and denominations. Not ecumenicism on the basis of the word Christianity, which can embrace all kinds of error, but ecumenicism on a different basis. This is a call for unity and fellowship around the sola scriptura process of learning truth. The Bible alone is our authority for faith and practice, and expressly NOT around prefab doctrinal line items that you are expected to find if you bother to dabble in the word of God. Even the doctrine of the Trinity is safe in such a system, if it truly arises out of the scripture (and I can show it does.) The point is, we can smile upon people who disagree with us, with an Ephesians 4 love. Not wishing to leave anyone vulnerable to the harm that comes from deception, we all speak the scriptures to one another, and as much as possible, pull each other in close enough that we can see and learn from one another’s living out the word of God in the all-day Deuteronomy 6 contexts where Christian doctrine plays out.
Great topic!
Thank you for sharing your story.
I think a good parent/ child relationship is a really really good example of God! And it strikes me that Calvinists seem to think humans are way way different from God but we are more similar to him than we think because he made us like that! A good parent-child relationship pretty much shows so much of what following God is like and being his child is like!!! So loved so disciplined guided not forced to do things like a robot. Asked to do things. Winning hearts. Rewards and consequences
God is good......ALL the time.
Great interview Susan! New sub.
Thanks Wang!
Great video! Thanks for sharing your story. One of the greatest Arminian scholars, in my opinion, is Jack Cottrell. I would highly recommend his books, especially The Faith Once For All, if you are interested in learning more.
This is not a secondary issue.
Thank you both for this I really enjoyed it. God bless you both.
To be honest I think you have to throw out most of the bible in calvinism. Paul say " He ( Jesus) died not just for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world."
We have a responsibility/ a personal choice to serve and love God. I am not forced to love him. I want to and enjoy loving him.❤️
Wow! great video, I have watched Alana's videos since the beginning and I love them but the only thing that was hard was when she spoke about calvinist theology subjects. God bless you and Alana for making this video. The Gospel is indeed Good News to the world.
Good stuff. God bless you!
Great testimony.
Thank you.. I have enjoyed listening to Allie Beth Stuckey’s podcast Relatable for a few years, mostly for political commentary. But I didn’t realize how dangerous her Calvinist theology was.
I’ve listened to her some and she sounds 100% like I did:/ script...
@@AlanaL3 she won’t listen to anyone who tells her different :/
@@kshult1510 maybe one day:) when she’s teaching her children about Jesus he’ll show her:)
@@AlanaL3 How a parent can look at their child whom they love enough to die for and think God doesn’t have that same love, i can’t understand.
@@jordandthornburg same
Love this very much. We have a choice. It's clear for anyone who reads the Bible for themselves. Can we arbitrarily lose our salvation? No. But we can choose to walk away from the faith. Scripture is clear on this.
I do believe we have a choice in whether we want to accept the free gift of salvation, but I want to add there are biblical ways to view eternal security without resorting to the P of tulip.
Let me just add this verse and I'm open to further discussing this wonderful promise if you are interested 🌼
1 Corinthians 1:21+ 22
And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
If you have received the Spirit at rebirth He is your guarantee that you WILL receive eternal life. The question is not whether it is possible to walk away , the question is IF you received fhe Spirit of God and He has made you alive in Christ would you want to walk away? And many will give you testimonies of walking away, but the Bible says this...1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
May I suggest grace thru faith website, they have a QandA section and a whole ebook dealing with the subject. Pastor Jack Kelly was a wonderful teacher of the Word, I think you will find his writings Scripture based and logical.
Blessings to you!
Well their is a lot of issues I see honestly with this, she jump from text to text to make a point in Ephesians which any biblical Christian would understand God made a choice before the foundation of the earth. I don’t think we can get around that. Secondly, she said we are ALL Gods children that’s not true Calvinism or not, we are received through faith to the family of God and he’s gives us that right (John 1:12). Finally, as Christians we should read ALL of Romans not just some verses of the chapter and say “this doesn’t add up” because of other verses. We must understand basic hermeneutics which means just read from beginning to end not just jump from text to text my thoughts.
Could anyone recommend a provisionist perspective/pre-Augustinian catechism? Particularly thinking about children’s theological education.
"Biblical theology with Jesse Morrell"
Really good RUclips channel, check it out!
@@luisrueda7664 He believe in a false gospel.
I love alana ! Never heard of Calvinism .
This is not a secondary issue. It is fundamental to who God is, as revealed in Scripture. Calvinism bleeds over into all aspects of a person’s life and how they walk the Christian walk.
Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is a Bible-based church that really gets law and Gospel right. Just sharing if anyone is looking ❤️ it’s the opposite of the Elca by the way 😜
I was lazy and I paid a heavy price also.
This has been an interesting topic for me as well. Never believed this but was confronted with it with some friends that I met. I’ve found the bottom line to be the Calvinist believes that we can do no good thing or work so we cannot choose God, so he made a few of us the elect to be saved. But all through the Bible faith and works are two different things. We can have faith if we choose to.
That's what makes true Christians bold to say and speak the truth regardless whether anyone likes it ir agrees with it or not. It's not a matter of opinions or preferences that's mans problem not God's. It's about living,speaking and giving people the truth in love ny God's authority literally and true believers understand that to do God's work in what true to please him not men. That's why i would question anyone's salvation first off if you have a problem with the authority and truth of what the word of God says because that would put in question through what understanding and perspective are you coming from because there's only two of them. The narrow way and the broad way that seems right to man.
Alana, do a study on election being for service rather than salvation!! It makes total sense of biblical election.
Calvinism is not biblical rather it is based on Augustinian/Gnosticism. It’s a philosophical system.
Typical things for flaming heretics to say.
@18:35 bc God commands us to share the gospel AND bc that's the way He spreads His good news to His sheep
Limited atonement is the usual stumbling block. Some can't accept this and I totally get that.
I could accept anything that scripture says. I’d hope anyone who holds scripture as authority can accept that Jesus cape to save the world, he died for the world, he tasted death for all mankind, he so loved the world.
@@AlanaL3 Anything?
@JourneyROR Absolutely. First comment I've read on here that has it right Biblically.
@JourneyROR I think you are straw manning her comment with the whole “Christ didn’t die for a maybe”. Just wanted to point that out.
@JourneyROR she was not implying that Christ died for a maybe. God is looking for a yes and anyone else who does not put their faith in Christ will be judged. That is the straw man I am talking about. And we are absolutely saved by grace through faith. Ephesians 2 affirms this truth. Even Paul says that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and that he rose from the dead, then you are saved. That’s called faith. Salvation is of the Lord and He deserves all the glory. The conduit in which one is to receive eternal life is faith in Jesus Christ alone. I am not here to fight with you friend. I really don’t like it when brothers and sisters in the Lord start bickering over this type of stuff. I hope this comment can lead you down the path in truly understanding the Scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit and abandon the traditions of man (whether it be Arminianism or Calvinism). God bless you.
You go girl!!! I love it!! I have never been a Calvinist, but Calvinism has been infiltrating some of our local churches and I have had to get educated about it. I want to fight it like you do. Don’t be discouraged about being rejected. The truth divides. Jesus was rejected too. He calls us to come outside the camp with Him and bear His reproach. I love you. Look forward to seeing you in heaven someday!!!
I too had to work myself out of the calvinistic framework. Its was difficult to discern, cause @ the root Calvinism is taught through a series of clever bait and switches. Ex. The they them their who are suppressing the truth in Roman's 1 becomes all men suddenly.
There are many "pins" that Christians and christian culture end up in. Institutions of sorts. They believe a particular doctrine, creed, or confession so that's what they teach or repeat. Usually it's what they were taught. It becomes the lens by which they read and teach the bible through. A great reason for why we have so many denominations. Those that hear a particular teaching through the lens of a particular doctrine, creed, or confession, usually dont know it is a particular one till well after the fact, but by then they have probably adopted it as their own already.
So much goes into each individual's systematic that is also part of a grander systematic that has been communicated to them by someone else. The individual maybe completely unaware of these systematics. Nevertheless the systematic has become a filter by which they read the bible through, along with creeds and doctrines. The biblical worldview is multi faceted. Each piece informing another piece. The most important filter for the bible are the filter(s) of the writer. Their context is not your context. It is ancient and it is foreign. For me, it's hard not to want to address everything because of all the small pieces that can become mental traps.
44:49 Alana, I appreciate your spirit so much. I think I just had an epiphany re; your "passionate warrior spirit"🤠... I think you should lean into it. It's a gift which not everyone has; The ability to direct ones energy in such a way as you do. Consider Paul's focus and passion before Damascus as a persecutor of the church, and how it changed after his encounter with the truth/Jesus.....
Paul turned 180degrees in his focus but his passion did not diminish at all, probably even intensified. It was just redirected to the pursuit of his 'new found' focus. God used that intensity which was born(gifted) in him.
37:40 You are so correct that THE issue is NOT a 'Secondary Issue'. For Bible believers to accept that argument, even tacitly, is allowing the camel's nose under the tent and denying the intent of the author of that error.
Eventually they end up sleeping outside and the camel has their bed. The Calvinist/reformed contention that Christ did NOT die for the sins of the whole world or that salvation is only possible for a pre-selected few that all others be eternally damned without hope for doing what God decreed without the ability to do otherwise....for God's pleasure... is THE ISSUE about which we must not compromise. It is NOT a secondary issue at all. God's love for the world, all of it, is why he gave his best.
is salvation by faith and a one time thing, or is it by faith and works with the possibility of losing salvation if one backslides?
If I am forced to make a choice, believe or else face eternal torment for not believing. I would more than happily accept eternal torment, since I was not asked to be born and I am forced to partake in this believe or be punished game.
@41:00 you said we were grafted IN then you say it's not talking to us?
I'm going to have to watch the rest of this video..
I keep hearing from certain self convinced Calvinists that nobody who understands Calvinism will leave Calvinism..
Obviously that's not the case..
Go to the Soteriology 101 channel which goes deep onto this issue but fairly. Leighton Flowers can help you with the vocabulary you'll need to explain what you already believe. This changed my life and I fell in LOVE with Jesus several years ago when i made a conscious decision to follow scripture. As a physicist I am happy to report my faith. is now 10x stronger than before.
How would you respond to John 6:44?
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
The word, "can" is often overlooked. Numerous calvinists are observed to understand the verse altered, as if it says,
"No man comes to me except the Father draws bim.' If one removes that key modal verb then the altered Scripture better supports calvinism.
Even if the the verb "draw" means to drag, or tie someone to a wagon and pull it with a cord, the result of the exception clause being true is ability. One CAN receive the gift of eternal life through faith or one CAN reject it.
I understand the drawing to be the light of John 1:9 or conviction by the Word, the Spirit and human instrumentality (how can they hear without a preacher?)
Some Calvinist false teachers consider the drawing to be regeneration. That means life is given before the drawn one comes in conflict with John 5:40. Others want to equate it to the effectual call - a term not found in Scripture.
John 12:32 says how He drew all men - by His resurrection.
43:05 was there hope for Esau?
8:00 interesting that Alana now realizes that she was just repeating "script" responses and not actually "thinking" or studying her self from scripture. When Calvinists run into scripture that conflicts with Calvinism's ideological positions it is always scripture that must yield.
Her comment that Calvinists focus on how depraved men are is insightful and true. Calvinism ignores and that we were made in God's image and denies we are valuable enough that Christ died for us. Even as 'believers' they cannot accept being the 'righteousness of God in Christ'... now, because they can never really, truly, be sure God loves them and they are 'chosen' as their doctrine demands.
God bless you and Alana for sharing these things; that we are valuable to God and that all men are loved by Him, that no one perishes because God hates them and doesn't want them, but because they 'choose' to reject ant not to believe in Christ.
There is NO scripture that says 'all men are born unable to respond to God'... NONE, it doesn't exist. Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved... some will... some won't... anyone can.
The prodigal son is the beautiful portrayal of repentance and salvation and the fathers graciousness....NOT Lazarus. The resurrection of Lazarus is not about salvation Christ says it was so that they would believe; John 11 "15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him." and again to Martha in vs 40.... That they might believe.
The Scripture says, "we are DEAD in trespasses and sins" Ephesians 2:1 and Colossians 2:13...This means WE ARE BORN UNABLE to respond to God....
Do you think what you are describing is the gospel Charles Spurgeon preached? Because he was a devout Calvanist. A true evangelist. He is considered one of, if not the greatest preachers to ever live..and he said that the doctrines man calls Calvanism are written in the scriptures as if with an iron pen! I’m amazed that you are describing it this way. Finally understanding the doctrines of Calvanism after 40 years of being a Christian has done nothing but bring me closer to God. It has taken nothing away from the Love and Evangelism I have always known with Christ and added so much more submission and humility and better understanding God’s sovereignty has completely strengthened my faith.
@@shawnglass108 No offense, but I really don't care one way or the other about what Spurgeon preached. He was an earnest evangelist and gifted orator who loved God, and he led a lot of people to Jesus, but he was wrong about many things. Calvinism was probably his biggest error. Spurgeon was a conflicted Calvinist. He did say 'Calvinism IS the Gospel'. But, if true, (which it isn't), means anyone who does not accept Calvinism is not saved and is guilty of heresy(bring out the pitchforks and build a fire).
But Spurgeon also said he would preach until all the 'elect' were saved and then pray God elect some more. It's hyperbole and humorous, but he recognized his zeal for the lost was in conflict with Calvinist doctrine. According to Calvinism, God actually hates 80-90% of the unsaved in any crowd, and Spurgeon couldn't have explained where his love for those whom God hated would come from, any more than a Calvinist can today. The fact that he couldn't 'know' or pick the "elect" out of the crowd is irrelevant, professing his love, or the love of God, for the entire crowd, or even one single lost person in the crowd, presented a problem of integrity none the less. Calvinism contends God only truly loves the mysterious 'elect'. And in the end, nobody really knows who they are, not even the man in the mirror.
I'm happy you find yourself feeling close to God, but I'm sorry you've fallen prey to Calvinist doctrines. They undermine the true nature of God and promote the same like which Satan presented to Eve in the garden, and the results are the same to day. The upshot is that you cannot trust that God actually loves you personally and has your best interests in mind. He might have just 'blessed' you with an episode of Evanescent Grace.
Having explained away to their own satisfaction every verse which simply says believe to be saved and accepting that doctrine which erroneously says God already chose everybody he was going to save before they were even conceived in their mother's womb, a Calvinist has no nail left upon which to hang his own hat. Even R.C. Sproul confessed doubts of his own regarding being 'elected to salvation'.. Once one begins digging into the details, doubts of their own 'election' become pretty common. It always comes up at Q&A sessions with Calvinists seminars and Dr. Sproul could offer not assurance, only commiseration.
Nobody in scripture is elected "to be" saved. No scripture in proper context establishes that anyone is. And there is no scripture in proper context which established anybody is "born" unable to respond positively to God when he calls. Total Depravity does not equal Total Inability from birth. Yet Augustine laid the foundation on that stone.
True scenario; A Calvinist witness to his neighbor across the hall. The neighbor prays to receive Christ and excitedly says 'lets go tell my wife and kids'... The only reply an honest Calvinist could give is 'yes, let's go find out if God loves them too'. 😲
That's the fact of their system. I truly pray you reconsider the claims of the system and find your way out and become free of it in Christ.
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT , No..Rejecting Calvanism does not mean you’re a heretic at all and you absolutely do not have to understand Calvanism to be saved! You are saved by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ. I’m sorry but you have an incredibly strange view of Calvanism. I was born again at 8 years old. I didn’t know what the doctrines of Calvanism were until last year. I’m 48..If I had not learned about Calvanism it wouldn’t have changed my Salvation. It just would’ve cost me a deeper understanding of God’s mercy, Grace and Sovereignty. You obviously don’t even understand true Calvanism. Calvanism does not claim that man is born unable to respond to God if he calls..It claims that man is born unable to come Unless and until God calls. I Don’t know exactly what Augustine believed but I learned Calvanism from the scriptures through preachers that I mentioned above. Along with others. All of them teach that man can respond when God calls.
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT , And your analogy about the Calvanist witnessing to the neighbor across the hall is completely false. We are taught to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth. I’m not sure you’ve actually read any sermons by an evangelist calvanist like Charles Spurgeon. He was certainly incredibly excited to preach the gospel to everyone. Of course none of us know who will believe and who will not. We, as the servants in Jesus’ parable, cannot tell the weed from the wheat. We are commanded to love everyone and to preach the gospel to all.
Hopefully Alana gets out of that John marcarthur cessationist crap doctrine. I love you channel Alana I pray the Lord shows you the gifts are for today and we absolutely can heal people, cast demons out, raise the dead and prophecy and speak in tongues
Bethel church couldn't raise the little girl that died at their church. Kenneth Copeland didn't stop COVID. Christians everywhere would be raising loved ones from the dead and healing kids from cancer in hospitals. The kind of thinking that we can actually do these things destroys people's faith when it doesn't come true.
@@jennifermoya6707 lol kenneth copeland is a false prophet. Balance. Not extreme pentacostals and charismatic but not to the other extreme denying gifts and quenching the holy spirit. Not all charismatics are like benny hinn and prosperity teachers. Ask Jesus to show you his gifts are still for today
Not sure what you are talking about, I definitely believe in miracles. It would be nice if you asked me instead of say these weird random comments.
Alana you mentioned in a video you believe God can do miracles but you said you don't believe gifts are for today and you believe it was only for that time and ceased. John macarthur teaches cessationist. Where in the heck did the Bible ever say we can no longer heal the sick, cast demons out, gifts are for today! Can't quench the holy spirit. Also I love your channel and believe you are Godly I just disagree with doctrine you follow. I don't believe John macarthur teaching of cessation is biblical and it's heresy
@@AlanaL3 Sorry.
I strongly lean Calvinist (when I believe in anything at all, agnostic theist mostly) but it appears to me in personal anecdote (so I could be mistaken) that non-Calvinists are usually more accepting of Calvinists as being brethren in Christianity than Calvinists are in reverse, and I know this is not true of all, but it certainly seems to be a pattern with the most militant Calvinists.
The issue for many atheists/agnostics becomes that of determinism, which they share with Calvinist/Gnostics.
A famous quote of Spurgeon is that Calvinism IS the Gospel.... the implications are that if you don't believe or accept Calvinism you are not believing in the true Gospel. The ugly fact of Calvinism is that there is no (gospel) 'good news' for anyone but their so-called "elect". And, according to their doctrine, approximately 90% of all mankind created in God's own image is destined to eternal damnation for doing what God decreed they would do without exception or the ability to do otherwise.
So, the angels appeared to the shepherds keeping watch over their flocks by night and said, 'this day in the city of David is born a savior, which shall be good news for some of you'.... 🤔🤔
There is NO 'good news' in Calvinism for anyone but their 'elect'.
And even those who hope they are .... can never be never certain of it.
Christ died for the sins of the world. Anyone who will believe in Him will have ever lasting life.
Some will, some won't... anyone can.
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT I am right there with you on objections to Calvinism but (putting on my Reformed's Advocate cap for a second), these are primarily emotional objections to Calvinism as theological implementations, not necessarily reasonable on their own. To argue effectively in that fashion, I think one has to sidestep into arguments about how to properly define and defend the origin of morality and how it is to be interpreted, especially as applies to a higher (highest) power with ultimate attributes who may very well operate above our own reasoning and morality levels. Calvinism is perhaps also not the only possible Scriptural interpretation but it has proven to be one of the strongest historically, and given its own salvation parameters and moral origin thesis as being transcendentally divine, salvation becomes less about the quantity of the elect and more about the quality of the Savior and those redeemed by mercy and grace (ultimately, the elect). I find myself disagreeing with the Gospel itself, though, and especially Calvinism, even though I would probably argue it is at least one of the most Biblical interpretations available.
@@byroniac Calvinism has tied its proverbial leg to the belief that "ALL" men are born unable to respond positively to God. The fact is there is NO scripture in proper context which declares this to be true. Without that being clearly established in scripture their system of conclusions which logically cascade from it are unnecessary.
Unfortunately, for Calvinists whenever scripture and their doctrine collide it is their Calvinist paradigm which must prevail ...at any cost. They redefine and invent words and terms as required.
They try to escape the inevitable conclusion of their determinst doctrine which makes God responsible for evil but not culpable by claiming..... "mystery", as did Calvin himself. But it is inescapable if their doctrine is true, (and it is not), it is a direct attack on the true nature of God, which is exactly how Satan deceived Eve in the garden. I.e., God cannot be trusted.
Calvin has God sacrificing man for God's glory when the truth is that God sacrificed of himself in Christ to pay the debt of man's sin and establish the way of reconciliation of mankind to Him by faith believing in Christ to that end. One must believe. Some will believe the Gospel, which scripture declares IS the power of God unto salvation for those who will believe, but some will not.... However, anyone can. And nowhere in the Bible does it declare they are "born" unable to do so.
John Calvin writes: “But now, removing from God all proximate causation of the act, I at the same time remove from Him all guilt and leave man alone liable. It is therefore wicked and calumnious to say that I make the fall of man one of the works of God. But how it was ordained by the foreknowledge and decree of God what man’s future was without God being implicated as associate in the fault as the author or approver of transgression, is clearly a secret so much excelling the insight of the human mind, that I am not ashamed to confess ignorance.” (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, pp.123-124
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT Yes, I get that, that's why I said it is possibly not the only Scriptural interpretation, but it is one of the best ones available and has proven so historically. Jesus tells Nicodemus you must be born again. That metaphor is used deliberately as a picture of salvation, not one produced by man's will, intellect, or desires (as said elsewhere in John). Throw in Romans 1 to 3 into the mix as well. But omniscience combined with omnipotence alone produces severe problems because it's very difficult to argue against predestination in effect, even if you argue for a passive form of it. You still have God as the ultimate origin of everything, good (by first causes) and also evil (at least by secondary causes and indirect effect). Ultimately, the answer to the question why must terminate in God alone, according to Calvinism, and I think also according to traditional omniscience and omnipotence. To me, open theism wants to redefine omniscience (from the traditional view) to make certain things unknowable to God or anyone else, ultimately grounded in a freewill autonomy of man as a creature made in the divine image. But, just as you cannot choose your parents or where you are born, omniscience/omnipotence alone determines many starting factors to your life, and in the traditional view, can even determine your ultimate destiny based on preliminary starting conditions. I'll leave that to others though. I am at best agnostic theist, more agnostic than theist at this point.
Thanks for proving you never understood what you claim you believed.
I visited what I thought was a traditionalist church, but it turned out to be Calvinist(Reformed). So I left. I exlained my reasons to the pastor's wife but she never even responded. I never went back again. I suppose they conclude you aren't elect and saved and not worth bothering with.
I am wonder why stay in a calvinist teaching church? My church called a new pastor that is 5 point calvinist. We are contemplating leaving. I don't feel like I can sit under this teaching as I believe it is heresy. Thank you for this video.
remember asking a girl who grew up Calvinist why she did not go to church anymore and she basically said that she did not have any control over that decision? Sadly this man-made doctrine pushes people away from the Christian faith because of how it paints God as being brutally unjust.
3,500 views! woot, woot
I agree I don't think its a secondary issue, more I dig into this (the 5 points) especially "perseverance of the saints" is loading works into the Gospel and has you evaluating your fruits, works or a trajectory you are on in life to make sure you have saving faith and hopefully never end up "proving you never were saved to begin with". Calvinism totally destroys assurance. Both Calvinism and Arminianism is a works based salvation, one says if you are not obedient you will lose it, other says if you are not obedient you show you never had it. Where is the finished work of Christ? Where is resting in his promises? Why does John write to you these thing to KNOW you have eternal life? Didn't Paul warn us of vain philosophies and "another" Gospel?
only works in Calvinism is coming from God. not man.
@32:38 she's talking about HYPER-calvinism. We still will be judged on our decisions as believers.
Love the way she articulates the truth.
she admitted she didnt study or learn what she believed.
37:50 it's not a secondary issue for me either. You are adding WORKS to the gospel as something you HAVE TO DO to receive the gospel. JESUS DID IT ALL including change hearts to receive it.
Where I the Bible does it say if you don't understand the mechanism of salvation you're going to hell?
Only Calvinism defines "receiving a gift in trust" as a work. Only Calvinists transform "the power of God for salvation" of Romans 1 as not powerful enough without a Holy Spirit hijack. No non-Calvinist I know would ever describe trusting in what God has done in Christ as a "work". It's slander. Repent.
I was a student of philosophy and because of that I was deeply into calvinism. The reason why this is wrong is because God never show himself as a Rene Descartes hiper rationalism or have any influence from Socrates or Aristotle, by saying this the knowledge puff into my mind and soul and I was satisfied with this hyper academic God. Then I realized I was miserable, never experience the so called grace and love this people talk about, neither philosophy provide that kind of nurture. Therefore calvinism is just an expression of how men obtain gratification by having answers to everything, like those pharisees who believe they have more knowledge and wisdom than Jesus at the point that they were a lot systematic (For example when they point on Jesus the reason to heal someone on Sabbat).
So, if you are a philosophy student you will see very clear how Calvinists rely on system of thought found on philosophy, from Socrates, Aristotle, Plato and even a high degree of Rene Descartes and his rationalism, that's the reason why they are so systematic and it came from philosophy influence. The Apostle Paul mentioned that it will came people who mix the gospel along with human science and philosophy, there ya go, you were advised, among those people Paul spoke about are Calvinists, a manifestation of human arrogance and a hardened heart.
Just have faith as a child into the simplicity of the gospel, Jesus did not die and resurrect just to save "Book Worms" and "Hyper intelectuals know it all". The Gospel is not a riddle that is needed to be solved by people who saw themselves as a "Christian Martin Heideger".
I knew it just crossed the video but how the Calvinist acted where so Pharisees vibe and proud they were “elect” just how they were and didn’t need anything else for they were elect and thought everyone else will perish like the gentiles for they weren’t elect( clearly didn’t never read the Bible For Jesus called out Nicodemus saying how are you a teacher of the law but don’t understand it becuase they tried to understand by human knowledge but One need the spirit of the Lord to teach us what the Word of God means
That's people's problem and what they want is what they personally prefer or preference when it comes to what God says and what something is in actuality. If you're a reformed Christian or Calvinist based on you're own understanding and preference basically. This is bound to happen you're gonna deny it or drop out of that theology and understanding. Because nobody makes themselves in what they come to understand and come to believe by and through the knowledge of God. It's either what you believe and what you understand and why you're able to even understand a reformed theology first off is because God is enabling a person to understand that and that's where what you stand on in based on being led by the holy spirit literally spiritually speaking. Anything outside of the holy spirit teaching and leading a person in a personal relationship and what the holy spirit enables to understand and see thing's is not from our own personal perspective or opinion or preference outside of true salvation. And if there is any doubts,opinions or preferences or a different understanding of that i would question a person's personal salvation in all reality.
Guys, if we don't smirk in a worldly manner, it would help people know that we really believe. It wouldn't be positive proof, but it would not suggest we're coming from the same place as everyone who is just playing a part, for sadistic, confusing and mocking purposes. If we really believe, we are entering a time of more persecution. We "probably" won't want to undermine the faith of others, if we actually believe in Jesus.
There is a great misunderstanding of what it means to be made in the image of God. We are not a copy of God. An image is a representation of something. We are by nature children of wrath, unless God himself acts. See Ezekiel 36.
"no one seeks God" @11:30
We preach the word to every creature because we do not know who the elect are. That is the method by which the Lord ordained to bring lost sheep into the fold. God, only, knows who the sheep and lost sheep are; although the goats also hear, but not with ears that can truly hear. His sheep hear His voice and respond.
You have just admitted that you have no assurance of salvation. If preachers don't know who the elect are, there is no reason why you should know if you are elect either - not when the churches are so full of goats and tares. Perhaps you are one of them that won't persevere to the end!! If God knows who the elect are (he did't foresee who would choose him, he'd already decided before the foundatin of the world)- and no one else does - that still precludes any usefulness of a preacher. That's becuase God can talk to them directly, not involve his disciples into preaching and evangelising to the lost in the hope to catch their ear to believe. Even high Calvinists see that as a valid argument. After all, God grants the elect faith, so what role can any preacher or evangelist have? None, I would suggest.
Calvinism is a hot air theology that denies The Gospel, promotes gnosticism and elitism and encourages believers to abdicate responsibility for their own lives and that of others. It is wholly unbiblical soteriologically and practically, I would suggest.
Hello sir Knight!
You are using the biblical idea of ears that cannot hear. Is this used as a description of nonelect in the Bible, a condition from birth of being unable to respond positively to God?
This is what Matt 13:14-15 says:
in their case (talking about the jewish people in general) the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
YOU SHALL KEEP ON LISTENING, BUT SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND; AND YOU SHALL KEEP ON LOOKING, BUT SHALL NOT PERCEIVE;
FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART, AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.’
The text says these people through rebellion became dull, that they closed their eyes. This is not describing someone that was always blind. It is a condition they have moved into over time, and God says they closed their eyes. They did this. This is even more clear in Acts where the same passage is repeated about the jewish people and then Paul says:
"Therefore, let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will also listen.”" (Acts 28:28)
So because of the hardness of the jews, the Gospel is sent to the gentiles who will listen (ie they are not hardened in this sense)
So when the Bible uses this description, it´s not from birth and not true of people in general, just hardened Israel.
I think it is important that when using biblical phrases and words that we use them consistently with how the Bible uses them, otherwise we might be confused to think this describes unbelievers in general, which is clearly not the case.
Believe it or not, J MacArthur didn't start teach calvinism in a hard core way until around 2010. I was saved in 1982 and listened to MacArthur daily and he never mentioned it on the radio. He did teach it on his cassette tape ministry and in his study bible. But never mentioned it on the air. In fact, the only calvinist on the air was RC Sproul. Calvinism has made a resurgence with the Internet, which they have used successfully to recruit. Calvinism isn't natural to salvation experience or from the scriptures. It must be taught as a system.
Two things: 1) Amen 2)Your thumbnail cracks me up ; )
For those who wish to learn about the Calvinist position, may I humbly recommend the following books:
"The Institutes of the Christian Religion," by John Calvin
"The Doctrines of Grace," by James M. Boice and Philip G. Ryken
"The Sovereignty of God," by A.W. Pink
"Definite Atonement," by Gary D. Long
"For Whom Did Christ Die?" by R.B. Kuiper
"Redemption Accomplished and Applied," by Carl R. Trueman
"The Freedom of the Will," by Jonathan Edwards
"The Bondage of the Will," by Martin Luther
The Bible is enough:)
@@AlanaL3
Ma'am, I never said that it wasn't.
@@AlanaL3 not to learn about Calvinism :)
Pipers book on provision
@@madcow9421
Oh, you mean his new one on Providence? My copy should arrive any day now!
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I recommend a video that helps understand a key issue between Calvinism and Arminianism.
"EXPLORING THE TENSION BETWEEN CALVINISTS AND ARMINIANS" on RUclips. About 13 minutes long
Not a secondary issue..
Amen!! There is no Gospel in Calvinism
Want? our wants are to sin unless God intervenes @15:40
God draws all men unto Him and He gives a measure of faith to every man, it's then up to us to decide where to place our faith.
Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of (eternal life) to all who trust Him alone for salvation.
This means that saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ "alone" for salvation.
I would not see election (even double predestination) as necessarily inconsistent with free-will? Most of us believe God knows all things future, so He knows who will receive Him and who will not, therefore according to God's foreknowledge before the world began, the elect will spend eternity with Him and the non-elect will not and that cannot change or else you are saying the God does not truly know the future. I often observe that in reacting to certain doctrines we often end up polarizing to far and so actually creating more error?
Calvinism does not allow that God used foreknowledge when determining the elect. Rather his only consideration is the council of his own will. Foreknowledge is more of an arminian consideration.
@@brucegolston6507 The question is what is Biblical? Foreknowledge is almost entirely equivalent to predestination which allows for man's free-will. What's more several of Calvinists favorite verses emphasize this fact, Rom 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
@@SparkSnr777 a calvinist would be operating under the assumption that he foreknew them "from before foundation of the world", which this scripture does not say.
@@brucegolston6507 If God predestines from before the foundation of the world then he has to foreknow everything from before the foundation of the world also.
@@SparkSnr777 Calvinists assume that God predestined individuals to salvation from the foundation of the world. The Bible does not say that.
God has determined from the foundation of the world that BELIEVERS are predestined to be conformed, called, justified, glorified.
Does God knows everything including every possible alternate scenario? Sure. However, knowledge is not causal. Just because you know something doesn't mean you made it happen. I know what time the sun will rise tomorrow in my location but I had nothing to do with it. I know the mcdonald's near me opens at 5am, but I didn't cause it.
God knew that children were being sacrificed to molech but he not only wasn't the cause, but he stated:
"though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."
Jeremiah 32:35
So it never entered into God's mind? That's what he said. So how are we are going to assume we know how God uses what he knows unless he says so?
In the case of Romans 8, it does not say he knew them before the foundation of the world (which is what a calvinist presupposes is meant by the word foreknowledge every time they see the word, no matter the context).
What this actually denotes is that they became known by him before he predestined, conformed, called justified and glorified them. They became known by God when they believed. So they were known before the redemptive process began. Foreknown..
Being predestined, conformed, called, justified and glorified are things that happen to believers, not things that happen to nonbelievers to make them believe.
I left the corporate church(Baptist) many years ago. Label me a Christian.
Ridiculous. I was a calvinist 3 years BEFORE I learned who Calvin was bc I read Exodus, Romans 8&9, God hardened pharoahs heart, God is sovereign! Wake up
I have questions for you. Did Jesus die for those that committed the unpardonable sin ? Did Jesus die for those that were already in Hell?
@22:00 she just injected into the text the headline of the chapter tho?
The lack of understanding for Calvanism by Christians is completely amazing. As Charles Spurgeon said, these doctrines man calls Calvanism are written in the scriptures as if with an iron pen. Men, blindly, try to weaken God, steal his sovereignty, and put it on themselves. She, in this video, claimed John MacArthur was a soft Calvanist from the pulpit..but he is a devout Calvanist. He, as Charles Spurgeon, and other great Godly preachers, Voddie Baucham, R.C. Sproul, Etc..Understand that Calvanism and evangelism go hand in hand. I believe Charles Spurgeon said it best when he said that we do not know where the parallel lines of God’s sovereign election and man’s free will meet but we do know that they do meet Somewhere in eternity. I have been born again for 40 years this year. I didn’t know what Calvanism was or understand it until last year. It has been such a tremendous blessing on my life to better understand God’s sovereignty. It has made me truly humble and submissive. In a way I never understood I could or should be. It has taken nothing away from my Love or evangelism. It has only made my relationship with God so much stronger. God Bless You all!
1. Did you type the above on your phone? If so, your phone's auto-correct may have a foible which produces "Calvanism." I sympathize completely with my fat fingers. I was typing in Italian on my phone and "genitori" was auto-corrected to "genitalia."
2. She understands Calvinism just fine, as do I, as do you. "You don't understand Calvinism" is code for "you speak of my pet doctrine critically and I don't like it." At high altitude, Sproul boils it down to "that our final destination, heaven or hell, is decided by God not only before we get there, but before we are even born." It's that simple, although it gets real complicated real fast when followed up with, "...let me explain how." At this point it becomes evident that there is no monolithic position shared by all Calvinists in the minute details and it's utterly impossible to represent it in detail in a way that harmonizes with every Calvinist.
3. My takeaway of MacArthur's purported "soft" stand is that it diverges from Pink, who is willing to bite the bullet and own the inescapable logical conclusion of his systematic that God does not love all - an easy citation to google. I've seen MacArthur chide such a mindset, saying that God does indeed love all - causing the rain to fall on the just and the unjust, for example. An analogy to scale to demonstrate what a fourth rate caricature of a deity MacArthur praises: I grab your ankle and hold you suspended over the Grand Canyon one mile above the bottom ravine. But since I love you, I'm going to wait a whole nanosecond before dropping you. In 1 Corinthians 13 we learn that provision of temporal goods (though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor....) can be done without love. The God of the Bible, who is all loving, and truly loves all, and inspired 1 Cor 13, will also be the example setter par excellence.
4. As you grow you'll hopefully come to realize that ascribing oneself as "truly humble" is not that humble. When we see the fruit we'll let you know, unless we fear it may go to your head.
5. When Spurgeon writes of "two parallel lines," he starts with the Scripture that says, "“it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy” and rewords it to "everything is fore-ordained" as he tries to gas-light those who recognize an obvious contradiction. Calvinism is well supported with altered, reworded Scripture. I have the complete quote in my Facebook group Calvinism vs. Scripture. It's the type of discourse that influences people to think that diametrically opposed statements (such as the married bachelor) can both the valid interpretations of Scripture - thus Spurgeon undermines Scriptural authority. It's an occasional hurdle to my witness as I try tp persuade: "...you can back up anything with the Bible."
@@williammarinelli2363, My claim at humility was simply me trying to explain that I came to the beautiful understanding, after 40 years, to realize that it was God who chose me. It was not me who chose God. I did absolutely nothing I can brag about. I cannot say “Yes, I was smart enough and wise enough to choose God. Therefore I must be smarter and wiser than some others”. I contributed absolutely nothing toward my salvation. Except for the sin that made it necessary. I spent my life simply rejecting clearly taught Bible passages that speak of God’s sovereign election. Telling myself that they must not mean what they clearly say. Finally, after I allowed myself to submit to the truth I was given a better understanding and found it to be incredibly beautiful. Now I can understand to put all of the sovereignty where it belongs. It all belongs to God. Not a single drop belongs to me. ..For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. Romans 8:29-30..and Paul spends the next chapter, 9, explaining this and answering the objections he knew men would present. Although people may not like God’s answers. Amen and God Bless you all!
@@shawnglass108 Thanks for responding. Let it be a lesson for me, for trying to course-correct a somewhat narcissistic thought we are treated to a discourse with so many instances of the personal pronoun, "I", that when I tried to count my wife told me to put my shoes back on.
After disavowing bragging you brag, er, oops, sorry, need to be extra nice here, you wrote, "I came to the beautiful understanding..." Is this beautiful understanding a prerequisite to be smart enough to understand Calvinism?
Is this hypothetical quote,
"Yes, I was smart enough and wise enough to choose God. Therefore I must be smarter and wiser than some others."?
indicative of your attitude prior to the beautiful understanding?
If so, Shame! even though I imagine that you are indeed smarter than others - for instance I assume you don't drive impaired (others do, unfortunately.) I've heard many personal testimonies and never hear this sort of vanity. You would be the first. If you ever need to feel smarter than I then please advise and I'll share some stories from my time in the service.
If not, and if you can't produce a quote of a non-Calvinist owning such sentiment, then Shame - attributing to others what they never say!
Is the "smart enough" quote above your takeaway were the Phillipian jailor, asked about his conversion, responded, "I saw my need, asked how to be saved, was told to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and I believed and was saved." Did the jailor contribute to his salvation by believing? Did Naaman contribute to the cleansing of his leprosy by responding positively to the direction to wash in the river?
continuing with selected quotes from your response to show that the falsely so-called bragging, attributed to others in scolding tone, is all over your post:
"...to realize that it was God who chose me...." You were wise enough to realize this? Bravo.
"I allowed myself to submit to the truth..." You were smart enough and wise enough to submit?
"...and found it to be incredibly beautiful." Some find a caricature of God less compassionate than myself to be rather odious. But you know better. Beautiful. Yet not Paul - in the beginning of Romans 9 Paul is heartbroken over unsaved fellow countrymen, displaying more compassion than the calvigod who is not interested in their eternal welfare nor ever has been.
"Now I understand...." And we who don't understand are less intelligent?
While God gave us brains, a heart, and a conscience, the Bible also clearly shows that we are not all equal in employment of these gifts. Proverbs speaks of the prudent man in one verse and a fool in the next. The Bereans, although unsaved, were more noble than those of Thessalonica, or as Captain Obvious once famously said, "people are different."
@@williammarinelli2363 , my “I was smart enough and wise enough” example was meant as hyperbole. One that might cause someone to look at their salvation and consider what they personally did that got them saved. It is a question that I believe the scriptures clearly answered for me. I contributed absolutely nothing, as I said, except for the sin that made my salvation necessary. He Foreknew me, He predestined me, He called me, He justified me, and He glorified me..As you know, God, through Paul, makes these things very clear in Roman’s 8:29-30 and explains in Roman’s 9. I do not feel these things are beautiful because I’m smart enough to understand them. I didn’t have to understand them. I just had to quit rejecting them and to stop believing that even a single drop of God’s sovereignty, or the reason for his mercy, belongs to me. It’s beautiful because, as Martin Luther said “ Is it not wonderful news to believe that salvation lies outside ourselves?”..and finally understand God’s process and doctrine for sovereign election and salvation has let me understand that it wasn’t 50% me and 50% God. It wasn’t 75% God. It wasn’t even 99.9% God. It was 100% all of God’s doing! The Bible doesn’t say that we are in a spiritual coma. It says we are spiritually dead! There is absolutely nothing we can do. He Foreknows, He Predestines, He Calls, He Justifies, and He Glorifies! Soli Deo Gloria! Amen and God Bless you!
@@shawnglass108 My impression: you think re-pasting Romans 8:29 into every post is a way to suggest that the verse backs up your ideology, that you affirm this verse as written and that I, as well as the nice lady in the video who amazingly "doesn't understand Calvinism," should read this verse with open eyes so as to "get it." Romans 8:29 begins with "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son," and your takeaway is that means predestined for salvation. That requires a reword as conformed to the image of his Son is a future event for the believer - the adoption, to wit, the redemption of the body. It harmonizes with 1 John 3, "we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." None of the four instances in which predestinate appears in Scripture speaks of the unsaved predestined to salvation. That's the ideology imposed on by Calvinism which is supported by altered, reworded and edited Scripture. Pasting this verse into every post will not insert conversion into the objective revelation of the text. Calvinism is best supported by altered Scripture (see, I can repeat myself also.)
Were Romans 8:29 speaking of predestination to salvation (again, it does not) then the problem of others predestinated to damnation is introduced. What? It's not a problem because it's not your problem? "Got mine." Fair enough, you're management material for my former workplace.
And I did nothing to contribute to my salvation. Salvation is all of God, of whom it pleased by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe (1 Cor 1:21 ). This verse has two choices (God's choice and man's choice) and I fear you conflate them into one. The blind man who washed in the pool of Siloam did nothing to cure his blindness. God re-connected the retina, or regenerate the degenerated macula, or whatever bio-chemical miracle that was necessary. He was, however, told to wash in the pool, and he was the originator of his choice to do so. Had he chose not to...Same with Naaman's leprosy cure. Or are we to entertain that while Naaman was not yet persuaded, and flew into a rage, that this rage was decreed by God in eternity past? Try that one on the child abuse victim whose father is an abusive drunk. Oh, child abuse also falls in God's decrees. Thank you, Dr. White, consistent Calvinist.
Ok, so you say that predestination and election are basically man's words or Calvin's words. And these words are not directed to the church body? Predestination and election are both inseparable from the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery of the Gospel!
I grew up with an Arminian background and am so thankful for the doctrines of grace and how they have liberated me to a true understanding of God, given me more compassion and love for others and realized how much greater God is because of this biblical understanding. From this interview, it appears she has an understanding of free will that is Pelagian at its core. Question: Are we all born completely with a blank slate of moral neutrality with the ability to choose God from our own wisdom or goodness? Apparently so? The question always comes down to how we understand depravity and election throughout progressive revelation, that you have correctly. I guess we must reject the teaching that we are all born at enmity with God as the Scriptures teach. I guess we must also reject Jn. 3:17-18, Romans 3 and Romans 1. None of us are garbage and Calvinism never ever teaches this. If you learned this then I am sorry for this errant teaching. Romans 1 does not deal with relational knowledge of God but epistemological knowledge of God. I would like to hear your thoughts on Edwards' Freedom of the Will and your philosophical expertise on this work? If God is willing that none should perish who are the none and can man overpower God's will and thus be greater than God. Just as God prorizos the elect, he also predestinates the means. If you study Greek, Ephesians 1 becomes easy to understand. If you know anything about Calvin and have read his Institutes, you would realize that Union with Christ is a bigger theme of his theology than even predestination. If I had your view of God I would be an absolute universalist in every aspect of my theology!
"John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." @10:00
Yes and man has been given the faith to choose Christ or self.
23:00 weren't the Israelites chosen at birth?
There is a judgement for believers, maybe she doesn't know that @ 30:22
Do you think that's her point? You keep attacking this sister's story in a very uncharitable way. You short, stabbing responses don't develop a thought or a clear argument which doesn't help create understanding or dialogue. It sounds like you feel threatened by this sister's discovery of the flaws in the worldview that you hold to. The sister has shared that she trusts God's gift of love through Jesus's death on the Cross and his resurrection to glory. She has expressed that she has drawn closer to God and has experienced freedom and joy as a result of walking out of Calvin's ideas. Which of the following two option reflects your views: 1) Being a Calvinist is necessary for salvation 2) A Christian can reject Calvinism when God determines that they should, 3) A person can reject Calvinism because, through the insight of the Holy Spirit, she sees that it does not comport with truth?
In Calvinism even the devil is a victim of God's eternal decree. The Westminster confession states that everything that comes to pass is decreed by God, that makes God the author of evil, i.e. worst than the devil.