Why is it that when people bring up The Loud House, they point out Clyde’s dads, but oftentimes gloss over Luna and Sam? A relationship that syncs well into the definition of “good representation” provided. An overt, ongoing lesbian relationship that isn’t hiding what it is. If we consider the entire Loud family as an ensemble cast (Lincoln has felt less like the main protagonist since second or third season), then Luna is a main character dating a girl explicitly, and treated as normal as Lori and Bobby dating.
I mean, back in 2000s or earlier, pretty much nearly ever ship in a cartoon series is a straight ship. I guess because of that, people still aren’t used to having other types of couples besides straight ones. I’m sure things will die down and be normalized over time. Also, I like how Dana treated it so casually like it’s any other ship. It’s the exact same dynamic you see with an ordinary strait ship
@@matt98785 I didn’t say Clyde’s dads were hidden. But they’re not main characters. Luna is a main character. I’m saying that the video gave criteria for what he thinks “good representation” is, and then failed to acknowledge Luna and Sam, who match that criteria.
Here’s hoping Owl House doesn’t get screwed by homophobes, both writing wise and syndication wise. Also, I’d like to see more on this show. If only to see that O.C of yours.
lemme just say, the creator of the show does not let homophobia slide, and certainly does not let it affect her work. i think it’s entirely up to disney and what they decide to greenlight- which, is a scary thought considering what they’ve gone against so much in the past
@@carolinemolamphy1673 well Disney needs advertisers and investors those investors or advertisers might not want to be so controversial especially because of some country’s belief in the international market So they would rather reasonably go to nick to advertise or invest in less controversial shows like spongebob oThus why some shows aren’t green lit Disney’s number one priority is getting ads and investors so we can have Disney channel as a place to watch shows
It's really successful rn and the fandom is rising in popularity really fast considering it's on Disney Channel and not Nickelodeon or another channel that cancels shows very easily
@obbygift I was bullied in grade school. I was called “gay lord” by nearly everyone in my grade, and I _do_ mean *nearly everyone.* The thing about that is that I’m straight. Always have been, always will be. After grade school, I honestly did have a fear of gay men. The reason, though incredibly stupid looking back, was because I was afraid of turning gay. I was bullied so badly for something that I wasn’t, that the thought of becoming gay terrified me. I’d give the bullies a reason to mock and ridicule me. It got so bad that my parents sent me to a catholic private school for my junior high school years, just to make sure I wouldn’t encounter bullies! Even now, I’m ashamed to admit that I’m not 100% confortable around homosexuals, but my point is that homophobia is a real thing. There are people who are afraid of homosexuals, and I was one of them. It took nearly a decade to get past my fear, and even now it’s not all gone. I honestly thought homophobia was a common thing because it happened to me. I guess it’s just a portmanteau to everyone else, like how people use “shopaholic”, or “ception” after a word to describe something within something. My point is that, if I offended you with poor phrasing, I apologize. I’m still new to understanding a lot of stuff, and the last thing I want is to offend people when I don’t mean to.
For me, we won’t really get anywhere near proper acceptance until these characters stop being propped up as “the best thing ever” by the channels and the creators; as well as stopping them being spammed all through social media and the advertising as like the prime thing to watch/care at all about the show, also add some diversity to their characterization: show me some gay characters that go through multiple dates and breaks ups, show me some that don’t date/crush on someone at all by the end of the series, show me some gay characters that have less than stellar personalities, show me gay villains that aren’t portrayed as sympathetic and redeemed by the end of the show, don’t be afraid to show gay characters as anything but the most simpatic people with little to no flaws that’s loved by everyone and only ever goes on stock stories about how the don’t seem fit-in and how society needs to accept them, exit the mentality about how their identity its the only/most important thing about them and how we can’t really make them look bad to contribute to their development because we have to give a good first impression in order to push the agenda.
I’m also worried people will focus solely on the relationship and ignore the owl houses main story and just turn it into “ships, ships, ships”. Like I think the show is handling representation really well I just don’t want people to only see that over the actual plot of a story
Dana did say that she wasn't really a romance writer but she likes it. She really wants people to get into the lore behind the owl house. She isn't against the shipping or anything.
@@kmmk5022 no i mean more for the fan base side were people will just focus soley on shippping rather than the story in general like I feel the same thing happened to voltron were everyone obsessed over ships instead of the main story if you catch my drift
Personally I'm fine with just in general normalizing being bi like this show does. They don't have to end up in a relationship at all for me to be happy with how it's been portrayed. The will they won't they trope is irritating, but Dana has stated the relationships are not her main focus in this show, just something she likes so who knows what will happen in the end. I would love for them to get together at the end of season two so we have one last season with them in a relationship, but either way just having bi being normalized makes me content.
her comments about her writing relationships reminds me of King and Luz brief writing collaboration; and I doubt that is a coincidence. Same as the character she voices being the new "in" writer while the character her husband voices is now "out".
Exactly. I definitely would love for them to be together but I really want to know more things like who is emperor and who is writing Luz’s mom the letters
I have to disagree about the statement that Amity and Luz have to get together and stay together for it to be good rep. How many puppy love crushes do you know that stayed together forever? Then again kids show crushes are taken very seriously so who knows. I will say this though the Owl House is definitely _the best_ rep in children's media we have seen so far, and even if Luz and Amity don't get together it should go in the good category. It's important for kids to learn that same sex crushes are normal and who they are is wonderful.
I can see your point, but it's like I tell my students: you have to prove you can complete the fundamentals before trying a variation. How many American animations have had an LGBT main character fall in love, get together with them and taken a healthy relationship into a happily ever after? It's a basic story for straight relationships as early as fairy tales, but I honestly can't think of one LGBT example on mainstream TV. Someone has to set that baseline, and whichever show does will immediately become the standard for LGBT romances going forward. Owl house has been great at setting up the pins, so I'd love for this show to become that measuring stick
Exactly. Just like real life, not everything is exactly the way you want it. Having two characters just put together for the sake of being put together really shows a very self-destructive way of thinking. Imagine if people just stuck with people they didn't care about, nobody would be happy. I think the Velma we got in the new Scooby-Doo show was a step in the right direction. she tried out shaggy, didn't end up liking it after trying for so long, and then tried it with a woman period that to me is fine. women in real life do this. I actually had a woman date me and then tell me she wanted to try a woman instead. Now it wasn't a very long relationship, so nothing was harmful to me, but that's just how it is. And even then I still talk to this person she goes through women she didn't like. And it's only natural to keep trying.
@@seannetworkblogsandgames7504 Very fair point, but it does put a lot of pressure on the show and on it's creators. Luz is the first lgbt main protag in children't media, that is already a huge accomplishment especially coming from Disney. Regardless of what happens with Amity that is an achievement and it honestly feels kind of cheap like she has to _prove_ her gayness to be a complete win. We are still going up the steps of representation, we aren't at the top yet. It's a toxic idea of purity that everything has to be absolutely perfect or its bad, it hinders progress and adds to it being an uphill battle.
With what I saw from season one, I genuinely believe Luz and Amity will be a couple before the finale. Especially with how season one did so much great development for Amity and only under ONE season.
If we want to normalize LGBT relationships in media we Don’t need the character to outright say that they are bi or gay. I mean how many cartoon characters have you head say “I’m straight” the owl house not directly stating that luz is bi shows that they want to normalize it. Them just showing that she is bi shows that it is normal not something that someone has to outright say.
I mean, I can’t blame them really. True, I want it to be normalize, but because of most early cartoons having straight ships, having LGBT ships are refreshing for them because it didn’t happen as often as straight ships
The show may not have stated it, but Dana did confirm it on her whatever social media she uses. I feel like that move kind of undermined that normalization that the show was trying to achieve. Also, ships don't seem right to me regardless of the two people. It can be harmlessly fun, but it can lead to something that is less so.
@@POIUYTREWQ62 though she did confirm it that was just because people were asking. If the show itself never outright states that they are LGBTQ+ then especially children watching it will just know that it is normal. If shows keep outright stating if their characters are LQBTQ+ then it will never be considered normal.
Yeah and if they do say they are gay or bi or whatever it should be done causally like in kipo how whatever his name was (I don’t have the best memory with names) said he was gay when kipo said she might have a crush on him and then everything just went on as normal as if nothing happened and it wasn’t a big deal that’s what should happen
They never out right said it as far as I can remember though, yeah they have a bisexual flag in the background of one of the episodes, but it’s never out right said. We don’t even know if Amity is actually a lesbian or if she could be bi/pan/Omni, we all just assume she is.
What I like best about Lumity is that I love how they treated so casually like that it’s like any other ship like it’s simply a person liking another person. I have a feeling that there will be a tint of drama in Lumity when it comes to Mr and Mrs Blight. They probably won’t take a liking to Luz. And if they were to figure out amity’s crush on Luz. They probably won’t take kindly to it. They’ll discriminate Luz for not only being human and for being a girl, but for also associating with Eda and Lilith who are wanted criminals. If the blights threatened willow of expulsion, imagine what they’ll do to Luz. It will probably be something 10 times worse. Perhaps lock her up or exiled, or even executed. I also think with Boscha and her family being allies of Amity and the rest of the Blights, Boscha could play a bigger role. She probably will find out about Amity’s crush on Luz and use that information to her advantage and use it against amity. She’ll blackmail amity with her crush on Luz to get her into ditching Luz and Co, taking advantage of her weakness. And with the grom episode, her fear could be more than just being rejected by Luz. She could be scarred of rejection, coming out, being ostracized by society. I have a feeling their love story could be a Romeo and Juliet thing. Also cue the song Rewrite the Stars. Maybe either the Blights and/or the Emperors Coven could host a like a fancy party or something. Or maybe celebrate Amity’s birthday, for the nobility and powerful witches I mean. It could be like a masquerade ball. With Luz, Eda, and King NOT invited obviously. But the three crash the party anyways. And perhaps Luz and amity could dance together then. I have ideas for dialogue of how the sneaking in scene could go “Names.” The guard said to Luz and the others Luz and the others then got to the gates “Names.” The guard said “Uhhhh....my name is Bob. Bob uhhhhh....” Luz looked over to a door to a men’s bathroom “Mensroom” “And I’m Bob....Bob.....” Gus looked at a sign “Stayoffthegrass” “And I’m Bob. Bob....” King looked at a sign “Dontfeedthebatsquirrels” “And I’m Bob....Bob....” VIney looked somewhere “Mumbleson” “I’m Bob...” Willow looked at a kid eating popcorn “...Popcorn.” “I’m Bob...” Eda saw a moth fly next to her “...Moth” “I’m Bob...” Jerbo saw a kid with a bobcut hairdo “...Cut. And this is my dog, Bob...” Barcus woofs “Woof.”
There are so many cute WLW relationships in cartoons and as a gay demiboi I just wish we could have just as many MLM relationships. The WLW relationships are ADORABLE but I don't identify with them as much. It would also be good for younger kids to learn that it's ok to love someone of the same gender, which boys aren't getting as much. There's Kipo and that's it in terms of MLM relationships involving kids
KP: She also voiced Bojack's mom Burdine: Do you know who I am?! I am Burdine Maxwell, founder, president, and editor in chief of Your Thing Magazine, and the REIGNING queen of fashion!
Wendie Malick has such an amazing and distinct voice. When I watched the Owl House I immediately thought of Chicha in Emperor's New Groove and Bojack's mother. I'm surprised how well her voice fits for such different characters.
I have multiple thoughts on the matter: 1. Letting the relationship bloom at a slow pace is very important in terms of character depth. I can think of VERY FEW convincing slow burn cartoon romances, and Owl House seems to be going down this route (the route of a convincing slow burn, sorry for awkward phrasing). 2. Most stories of that type just smash main guy and main girl together during the finale without any buildup whatsoever. It is not the case here. They put thoughts into it: not only is amity not even main girl#2 (that title obviously belongs to Eda), and even a secondary character (arguably tertiary during 2 thirds of the show), but there is no romantic subplot involvement whatsoever during the finale. I think this is very important, because the finale only focuses on the characters closest to Eda. Having Amity involved somehow just to develop the romantic subplot during the finale would not only have been out of place since it would have disrupted every important emotional beat by interrupting the main plot, but also, it would have felt like clumsy, forced representation, which leads me to 3. The show isn't over. There's at least a 2nd season coming our way, and the way Amity and Luz's relationship is set up makes me think it's about to be the most emotionally satisfying cartoon romance of recent memory, or maybe even ever. Not only does it start off better than other lesbian relationships (not losing time before beginning to develop during the first however many seasons like Bubbline; not being a final "plot twist" with very little foreshadowing or emotional growth like Korrasami (typical smashing main girl and main girl together during finale); and not being as awkward and arguably toxic as Catradora), but it's also better than most straight relationship buildups in cartoon (I'm looking at you Star), being arguably much more interesting than for example Steven and Connie's relationship during the entirety of SU proper. With all that said, I have my hopes way up for the quality of the love story to come, and I think if anybody's gonna let us down, it's going to be Disney's execs, because Terrace and her team are on a heck of a good track!
Yes, thank you. I was actually kind of annoyed when she said that these characters needed to be together before the final season. I could be reading too deep into it, but it sounded like she wanted them to be like together now. There's no build up. There's nothing natural about it. It just sounds like you want them together for the sake of being together because representation. That to me is a bad recipe, and there's nothing wrong with taking your time period that's just how it is. my first date took me nearly a year to finally get the courage to ask the person out. We dated for 5 years after that. Between that and then? it was talking and getting to know each other, slowly building up some type of friendship that bloomed into something good. Now it may not have stayed that way, I don't speak to the person anymore, but that's just how reality is. Things don't work out no matter what happens or how long it takes. Have representation in your animations, that's fine. But make them believable.
Well it is certain that ending the show without even seeing them fall in love and have meaningful couple interactions would achieve next to nothing, be it in terms of representation, or in terms of storytelling. There is only a set amount of episodes this show will be granted, so I agree that there needs to be constant progression in Luz and Amity's relationship, or it'll all be for nothing. Yet, I think that you are right: rushing it would be meaningless too. There is a time to develop each relationship, and since the romantic subplot is just that - a SUBplot - we can't have it be more important than the main plot, 'lest we want a second SVtFoE-style disaster. There needs to be balance, and there has been so far. I trust the team to keep up the good work, both in terms of storytelling and representation, because to me, it was near flawless so far on both sides.
I really hope they get together in the duration of the series. Usually with a lot of ships in cartoons, they don’t get together til the final episode of the entire series. I wanna see lumity be canon in the duration of the series so we could be able to see character development between them when they are in a couple, as in , the ups and downs of their relationships, conflict, creating a stronger bond
12:52- Has anyone else pointed out that Boscha basically wrote a racial slur on Luz's face. I know "round ears" isn't an actual slur, but given the context in-story it seems like its supposed to be.
I don't personally mind waiting for the ending if it fits the themes. Like she ra was a show ABOUT them getting together. So it made sense for it to be at the end. I certainly think it would be nice if they got together near the end of season two, or perhaps mid way through season 3 if that gets greenlit, since Dana is on record saying that season 3 will include luz's quinceanera if the show gets a season three confirmation
I would watch you cover other things be it the big shows every one covers like Owl House, Amphibia, Kipo , Loud House or older shows from a long time ago like Real Ghostbusters or Freakazoid or Gargoyles. Just do whatever it is you feel you want to do.
I agree with having them cannon before the finale but we don't want it to happen too soon cause it wound feel very forced if they don't do it right by the sounds of the Reddit AmA it sounds like we're going to get more for the Blights meaning Amity will most likely be on screen a lot more and I think that's gonna be the main focus of season 2 not counting all the other stuff the be solved
I mean perhaps around mid season 2. Though, I heard Dana is probably not gonna focus so much on lumity season 2. So if Dana were to make a season 3, then maybe season 3
@shaquille mccray I have the same concern. Honestly, the problem with SVTFOE was two fold: there were too many other relationships going on and Starco was dragged out until the very end. As long as Lumity is the only real relationship in the show and it is not dragged out until the very end, it should be fine.
I always have this fear when something starts off promising like this. Luz and Amity have a good start, but it'd be very easy for Amity's parents to force her to sabotage her relationship with Luz before anything happens, similar to how they forced her to end her friendship with Willow, and then maybe only pair Luz and Amity up at the very last second in the series finale.
Mikaila, how would you rate the representation on The Loud House? To me; I think Clyde's dads are incredibly sweet, that Luna and Sam's relationship may have a bright future ahead and even the minor couple (Lainey and Alice) from the episode Singled Out are pretty good examples
Bruh I love the casualty of their intro. Just, "oh I hi Mr mcbride. Hi Mr mcbride" that's probably my favorite scene in animation. Just a huh moment then it's over. Like good omens.
@@elijahbrown1041 Same, dude; the scene was short but it was sweet and felt completely normal. Howard/Howie's behavior felt exactly like how a mother would behave
Personally the dance scene from Enchanting Grom Night kinda reminded me of that one scene from the anime movie Revolutionary Girl Utena: Adolescence. Such a classic moment.
Yeah, the current low representation of gay male characters compared to gay female characters is striking. Is it really that gay female characters are an easier sell? Maybe it's easier to make female characters progressive. Maybe it's just the preference of the creators of the shows to make the gay characters female. Maybe it's something else. Who knows. It is a little strange, though.
I think it's easier to see WLW relationships as "really close friendships" if the romantic nature of their relationships is subtle enough. Women are seen to be more emotional and closer with their friends, whereas men typically aren't. Women sometimes call their friends their "BFFs." Men usually refer to them as their "buddies." Women can call their female friends their "girlfriends" without it automatically being seen as a gay relationship. Men can't. Women are usually seen hugging their female friends. Men are usually seen giving them a pat on the back or a handshake. You could see that as the difference between male culture and female culture, but I think it's all just about society. Women are allowed to have close, emotional bonds with their friends. When men have close, emotional bonds with their friends, they're either dating, or they're just really "girly." So when two men are dating, it's more obvious, and those who can't see it are probably either really, really dense, or they're in denial. But two women can be dating and most people will genuinely see it as a really close friendship, because straight girls can be like that.
I kind of disagree. They are kids and I think kids need to see same sex crushes as normal; I think these need to be normalized just as much as the relationships themselves. Personally I love the representation in toh, but that might just be because I’m starved for rep but idk
@@anticountyfairx8652 I think Evie is trying to say that as much as LGBTQ+ representation has been happening with teen and adult characters. They'd like it more if networks used that same representation for preteen characters as well (i.e. ten to thirteen year olds or so)
This was incredible and I really love the owl house from the bottom of my heart and I love the characters so much and I think they may become a thing before the last episode and this video was extremely well edited and like the background music and I love how you added each detail in the bottom showing where you got the clip that must take a lot of work and you did fantastic and hope you and your family have a great day/stay safe. 👍🏼⭐️❤️🦉❤️⭐️👍🏼
Please stop including Korra. Korra was a shallow, last minute attempt at virtue signaling as confirmed by its creators. They were never developed, interesting or well written
They weren’t allowed to. That tiny bit of signaling broke the ground for every show that followed. There is a comic sequel that allows them to develop as soon as they are off the screen and on the page, because the readership for comics is much smaller than the audience for television that it’s okay for Korra and Asami to kiss as soon as they leave that medium with all the production hell.
Every bit of better representation stands on the shoulders of the giants that came before them. Korra and Asami held hands so that Ruby and Sapphire could kiss so that Luz and Amity can be canon GFs before their main plot gets resolved. As someone that has been watching shows since the 90s, each small step has been significant in its own right. Otherwise we would continue to just get gay background characters instead of main protagonists.
I was into the show because it interested me after SVTOE ended. This is so like the American version of Little Witch Academia. Glad this is getting recognized & I shipped Lumity from ep 5.
The LGBTQ representation is one of the many things that makes the Owl House so interesting at least in my opinion, in fact it makes it so interesting that if it turned out that all the main and supporting female characters in the series were either lesbian or bisexual, i for one would have no problem with that.
It’s pretty good no one realy has a problem with it I like it very much and it was really great to see the main antagonist fal in a sort of love with the shortGillian lik
All? Why all? That's not realistic. Granted, this is a cartoon, but even in real life that's still highly doubtful. You can have a bunch of them, but don't just sit there and say all of them are gay or bisexual, that's just not realistic. like I said it's a cartoon, but even cartoons need to have some realism.
I loved the explain of what makes good LGBTQ rep! Some people will say "oh it showed the gay for .05 seconds in the season finale you got your rep what more do you want?" and this was a perfect explaination to those people why/what we need more of.
Yes, but the forced "they need to stay together" just as harmful period just like real life, I feel like cartoons need to understand that not everything works out. That's why I felt Velma was believable. she tried something with shaggy after spending so much time trying to get the two of them to actually do things, then she tried it with a woman and while I don't know what happened at the end of that, it was a lot more believable than "oh, the characters are just happy together. They never broke up, or they never had problems." I know it's a cartoon, but it's still grounded by some realism. I would hope.
@@ItsRetroPlanet Oh I didn't mean it as in they had to stay together I meant to show their sexuality and relationship more than just 2 seconds at the end. So you actually have representation not just a clip that can be easily edited out. I totally agree that they should show that relationships don't work. This might be a hot take but Steven and Connie I thought should have broken up. But yeah people say "Oh you got to see someone hold hands for two seconds that's all the gay you need" when it is important to show the actual relationship and them having crushes just like they do with straight characters
I mean, if Luzs mom finds out about the isles if there was a way to get back to the human realm and other people from the boiling isles figuring out amity’s crush, especially mr and mrs blight, Luz and amity’s relationship will have complications
I don't get a bi vibe from Luz yet. She strikes me as in that phase of puberty when you're not interested in romance. You see it happening, you know you'll have feelings about it one day but not now. Like in Pepper Ann, while PA was crushing on one boy, her friend Nicky wasn't. I think that switch will flip for Luz but right now I don't feel it.
"Good representation means getting explicit with their sexuality, getting together before the finale, and staying together." I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this. You don't have to be explicit with every action or commentary. Also, just like real life, sometimes people can also take their time with actually getting together with a person. I'm just saying that subtlety isn't inherently bad. just like how a straight relationship can have handset something more, so should every other relationship you could think of. Also, staying with a person doesn't necessarily translate to being good either. Sometimes a relationship is just bad. Not saying that every relationship is bad, but sometimes things just don't click. Maybe the writers want to experiment, just like with velma. She had a thing for shaggy, and then it didn't work out. She tried something with a woman, and unfortunately I don't know what happens there but I can only assume that she eventually found something good for her. The bottom line is, not everything has to be forced, not everything has to be explicit, and sometimes subtlety can be a good thing.
That would be true IF there was ever an explicit gay relationship or main character in children’s animation that was made explicit before the last episode of the show. Marceline and Bubblegum got together explicitly in the last episode. Korra and Asami got together (somewhat) explicitly in the last episode. Jackie from Star vs was IMPLIED to have a girlfriend. Catra and Adora get together explicitly in the last episode. The only two children’s cartoons that made things explicit before the ending are/were The Loud House (Luna and Sam) and technically Steven Universe. And Luz and Amity don’t even have to be a couple for their sexuality to be explicit. Just have Luz say that she’s bi or Amity say that she only likes girls or something. Heterosexual characters are allowed to be explicit with their crushes and have explicit relationships throughout kids cartoons all the time. Think about a character like Mabel. She wasn’t subtle about her crushes, and neither was Dipper, and Wendy and Zeus were allowed to be in relationships long before the show ended, and nobody is complaining that their character arcs were being rushed or that things were too explicit or that they were too young for this. Why can’t we have a children’s show where the same is true for LGBT characters?
@@nicolersands I can't speak for every show but I'm pretty sure the reason why princess bubblegum and Marceline finally got that kiss in was because it's cartoon Network was against having gay relationships because of the Christian viewers. I guess they just didn't want any conflict with their current viewers, so having them kiss at the very last possible second was probably the developers way of getting back at it period at least that's what I was told, so I can only assume that's what happened. Star wars is fucking terrible now, I don't even want to think about those movies. They're the worst things that ever happened since the birth of jar jar Binks and the explanation of what the force is. I could give two shits about any of the characters in those movies now. Thanks disney. I've never watched the one with Mabel in it. How old are those kids again? Like seven? Why are we talking about their sexuality when they're not even teenagers yet? Anyway, the person in the video was explaining representation like it needed to be the main focus. And that nothing bad can happen to the actual relationship going on period that the two characters that get together needed to stay together. That's not how relationships work. They don't just become partners for life right away, that's ridiculous. That's called an arranged marriage at that point. what I'm driving for is for people to take their time building up these relationships whether they're heterosexual or gay. make them believable, they don't need to be made out to be things right away unless it's at the very beginning of the show where we acknowledge that they are together, or if they are introduced later on. if they're together before we even know anything, then it's whatever period we already acknowledge that they exist. But if you're trying to build a relationship with two different characters that we already know about, it needs to come naturally. Humans don't just pair up with each other and stay together forever. There are problems that come with everything. Have them fight over something, or disagree on something. I'm so sick and tired of people just wanting things to just happen as if two years of somebody's life just happened in two seconds.
I think the "fairytale ending" has been used with a lot of straight relationships. Anna and Kristoff (Frozen), for example, don't start dating until the "epilogue." Ariel and Eric (The Little Mermaid) didn't technically kiss until the very end, and then it just cuts to their wedding. The same could be said for Rapunzel and Eugene (Tangled), as the progression of their relationship is very similar (down to the boat ride and song which ends with them almost kissing). Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Beauty and the Beast, so many movies, especially Disney movies, don't have the characters kiss (or even get together) until the very end. There are some exceptions (Aladdin, for example), but for the most part, it's pretty much the standard. It's a classic storytelling device. Of course, it could be easier for that to fly because straight relationships are so normalized already, and there are still a lot of people who either don't agree with or just flat out hate the LGBT+ community. It would be nice to have better representation (which is why I think Elsa is better off as aroace rather than lesbian, considering the bigger intensity to which they/we are overlooked, ignored, or not taken seriously), but if straight relationships can get a "fairytale ending," I think LGBT couples can get them as well.
Hi, I'm from the future and lumity is definitely going to be acted upon, SPOILERS AHEAD Luz is starting reciprocate and its adorable, beautiful, and hilarious all at the same time to watch
Another great show that does this well, if you haven't already heard of it, is The Dragon Prince. In fact it does all sorts of relationships well. Platonic, familial, romantic. All are presented and developed well.
I heard people saying that amity developing a crush on luz so soon isn't realistic. But even though I'm pan not a lesbian, I've developed chrushes on people just from saying hi to them. Like my brain is just "wow thats a pretty person hm I guess I'm in love now"
aquí representando a los latinos, hola xd me encanto el video a pesar de no hablar mucho ingles si entendí y estoy de acuerdo eh aquí una suscriptora latina
Keep in mind that The Flintstones--and The Jetsons for that matter--started off as a prime-time animated sitcom. Family-friendly yes, but not a children's show. There had been other such shows before The Simpsons, but The Simpsons was the first one since The Jetsons to be a major hit.
Disney plus did pick this up, so I did watch it. I enjoyed and possibly the part that I really like that an entire civilization and culture developed from a giant corpse! The Boiling Isles is the corpse of a giant, and I think parts of him are still alive. I do like the development and I really liked the episode where they speared Quidditch from Harry Potter. Luc is 14 at this point in the show, and I agree she doesn't really think too far into sexual identity. She's a jump-in-think-later type of person. There are a lot of mysteries that I'm looking forward to seeing solved, such as who is sending Luc's mom letters from camp and signing Luc's name to them. I agree the settlement of Luc and Amiti's relationship should be settled before the show ends, but in the meantime I like the way it is developing.
I remember I was reading wings of fire and I got confused if I just read something wrong or if their was a pair of gay characters(I’m a straight supporter) so I googled it and saw a lot of comments about how it ruined the character which was very homophobic. Don’t know why I’m saying this story but I am.
Sorry KP sempai, can't watch this video cause I've still not watched this show, so... I'll just leave you with this comment My grandmas is also named Luz and that... is kinda awkward ;w;U
Owl house is coming to Disney plus on October 30 2020. So you can binge it on Halloween if you want although Mandolorian season 2 also comes out on the 30th. Do what you want with this information I don’t know.
As Mr.EvilConservativeGuy, on most things, ;) progress on the alphabet issues in mainstream animation is real, palpable, and gaining acceptance nearly every day! I was never shocked or offended by the sapphic implications of Steven Universe, Star Butterfly's faint ambiguity, and the character development in Owl House is downright cute. Disney, of all companies, has me languishing in a "will they or won't they" between Amity and Luz.
There is a gay man couple in Big City Greens. Edit: Well it’s hinted at, in the valentines dance episode you can see Terry and Alexander dancing and Alexander blushing.
Mabey Luz dose know and she likes Amity to but just acts oblivious because she gonna go back to her world some day and leave Amity and she dosen't want to make her sad or hurt her.
Amitty FUCKING KISSED LUZ I AM SO HAPPY LUMITY SHIP FOR LIFE Edit NOW THEY BE GOING ON A DATE AND THEIR GIRLFRIEND AND GIRLFRIEND KIM YOU WERE DEAD WRONG ON YOUR PREDICTION THESE TWO ARE THE BEST THINGS TO COME OUT OF DISNEY NOW
6:31 "... I don't know why." Because homophobia is ultimately an expression of patriarchial authoritarianism. It's a hierarchy in which a man will always have a higher status than a woman of equal wealth, lineage and education. So if a man has a same-sex relationship with another man, it's seen as a rejection of the status that comes with having the Y chromosome and an attack on the system. This is also true for other "unmanly" behaviour, such as cooking, wearing "girly" clothes, playing with puppets and so on. If women on the other hand enter same-sex relationships, it's easier for the homophobes to overlook because of their perceived lower status. The behaviour of the women can also be interpreted as a form of ambition by the homophobes: "Aww, they're trying to be like me", which they might find flattering rather than threatening. Attributes like ambition, aggressiveness, determination and so on also tend to be considered good character traits in patriarchial systems. I could also phrase it like this: homophobes also tend to be misogynists, so their disdain for lesbian couples is kinda intermingled with a disdain for women in general, which makes it more broad but also a bit weaker or dilluted. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that gay women have it easier than gay men or that I agree with any of those views. But people who measure the world with double standards will have double standards. Anyway, that's basically the reason for the underrepresentation of same-sex relationships between males in those shows - in my opinion.
In the Dutch dub for The Owl House they changed ‘’friend’’ to ‘’girlfriend’’ when referring Amity/Luz’s relationship English: (Edric talking to Amity abt Luz) Don’t be such a jerk to your friend Amity: She’s not my friend! Dutch: (Same Context) Don’t be so rude to your girlfriend- Amity: She’s not my girlfriend! Mouth movements don’t even match up, they didn’t need to do that. But they DID.
I think the reason there's less mlm relationship is also cause most the creators of these shoes are women who have more of a wlw experience and such so they put that into their show, but I do wish there was more mlm, I can relate to wlw relationships but there's something special about seeing something that matches you more closely in that way
Honestly. I feel like people value the shipping more than plot. Whether it be LGBTQ or hetero it's getting out of hand. And don't even get me started on the Toxic Fandoms
I’m sure people will get interested in the plot. I heard Dana might not focus so much on lumity season 2, leaving more room for people to be interested in the plot
America: Ok so all we need to do is get Democrats and republicans to set aside their issues and work together on 1 issue, do their jobs, and actually help the citizens for once rather then fighting with eachother, pocketing tons of money, and doing nothing. American: 0:44
Fans: hey! Disney is catching up! Disney: yeah yeah, gimme yo money tho Anyway, luz is a dynamic kid who's not yet into romantic relationships. Amity never really thought about that and now got hit hard but is also shy. For their age seems like a good depiction to me. I'm not in the lgbt community, but still I'm a human being and I've been a kid, so....
Why is it that when people bring up The Loud House, they point out Clyde’s dads, but oftentimes gloss over Luna and Sam? A relationship that syncs well into the definition of “good representation” provided. An overt, ongoing lesbian relationship that isn’t hiding what it is. If we consider the entire Loud family as an ensemble cast (Lincoln has felt less like the main protagonist since second or third season), then Luna is a main character dating a girl explicitly, and treated as normal as Lori and Bobby dating.
I mean, back in 2000s or earlier, pretty much nearly ever ship in a cartoon series is a straight ship. I guess because of that, people still aren’t used to having other types of couples besides straight ones. I’m sure things will die down and be normalized over time. Also, I like how Dana treated it so casually like it’s any other ship. It’s the exact same dynamic you see with an ordinary strait ship
@@maya_yaser hey when ya think owl house's hiatus will be over
@@maya_yaser Yeah for sure
How is clydes dads’ relationship trying to hide anything. They just don’t outright say they’re gay, but. I don’t have to do taht
@@matt98785 I didn’t say Clyde’s dads were hidden. But they’re not main characters. Luna is a main character. I’m saying that the video gave criteria for what he thinks “good representation” is, and then failed to acknowledge Luna and Sam, who match that criteria.
Here’s hoping Owl House doesn’t get screwed by homophobes, both writing wise and syndication wise. Also, I’d like to see more on this show. If only to see that O.C of yours.
lemme just say, the creator of the show does not let homophobia slide, and certainly does not let it affect her work. i think it’s entirely up to disney and what they decide to greenlight- which, is a scary thought considering what they’ve gone against so much in the past
@@carolinemolamphy1673 well Disney needs advertisers and investors those investors or advertisers might not want to be so controversial especially because of some country’s belief in the international market
So they would rather reasonably go to nick to advertise or invest in less controversial shows like spongebob oThus why some shows aren’t green lit Disney’s number one priority is getting ads and investors so we can have Disney channel as a place to watch shows
It's really successful rn and the fandom is rising in popularity really fast considering it's on Disney Channel and not Nickelodeon or another channel that cancels shows very easily
@obbygift I was bullied in grade school. I was called “gay lord” by nearly everyone in my grade, and I _do_ mean *nearly everyone.* The thing about that is that I’m straight. Always have been, always will be.
After grade school, I honestly did have a fear of gay men. The reason, though incredibly stupid looking back, was because I was afraid of turning gay. I was bullied so badly for something that I wasn’t, that the thought of becoming gay terrified me. I’d give the bullies a reason to mock and ridicule me. It got so bad that my parents sent me to a catholic private school for my junior high school years, just to make sure I wouldn’t encounter bullies!
Even now, I’m ashamed to admit that I’m not 100% confortable around homosexuals, but my point is that homophobia is a real thing. There are people who are afraid of homosexuals, and I was one of them. It took nearly a decade to get past my fear, and even now it’s not all gone.
I honestly thought homophobia was a common thing because it happened to me. I guess it’s just a portmanteau to everyone else, like how people use “shopaholic”, or “ception” after a word to describe something within something.
My point is that, if I offended you with poor phrasing, I apologize. I’m still new to understanding a lot of stuff, and the last thing I want is to offend people when I don’t mean to.
@obbygift Idk who made se homophobia as a phobia but the word means someone who hates/dislikes and or doesn't support us
For me, we won’t really get anywhere near proper acceptance until these characters stop being propped up as “the best thing ever” by the channels and the creators; as well as stopping them being spammed all through social media and the advertising as like the prime thing to watch/care at all about the show, also add some diversity to their characterization: show me some gay characters that go through multiple dates and breaks ups, show me some that don’t date/crush on someone at all by the end of the series, show me some gay characters that have less than stellar personalities, show me gay villains that aren’t portrayed as sympathetic and redeemed by the end of the show, don’t be afraid to show gay characters as anything but the most simpatic people with little to no flaws that’s loved by everyone and only ever goes on stock stories about how the don’t seem fit-in and how society needs to accept them, exit the mentality about how their identity its the only/most important thing about them and how we can’t really make them look bad to contribute to their development because we have to give a good first impression in order to push the agenda.
Preach!
I’m also worried people will focus solely on the relationship and ignore the owl houses main story and just turn it into “ships, ships, ships”. Like I think the show is handling representation really well I just don’t want people to only see that over the actual plot of a story
Dana did say that she wasn't really a romance writer but she likes it. She really wants people to get into the lore behind the owl house. She isn't against the shipping or anything.
I mean the ship will be a focus for sure, just not the main one
@@kmmk5022 no i mean more for the fan base side were people will just focus soley on shippping rather than the story in general like I feel the same thing happened to voltron were everyone obsessed over ships instead of the main story if you catch my drift
Personally I'm fine with just in general normalizing being bi like this show does. They don't have to end up in a relationship at all for me to be happy with how it's been portrayed. The will they won't they trope is irritating, but Dana has stated the relationships are not her main focus in this show, just something she likes so who knows what will happen in the end. I would love for them to get together at the end of season two so we have one last season with them in a relationship, but either way just having bi being normalized makes me content.
I mean the ship will be a focus for sure, just not the main one
her comments about her writing relationships reminds me of King and Luz brief writing collaboration; and I doubt that is a coincidence.
Same as the character she voices being the new "in" writer while the character her husband voices is now "out".
Exactly. I definitely would love for them to be together but I really want to know more things like who is emperor and who is writing Luz’s mom the letters
Oh jeez, season 2 really did a lot compared to season 1, and its only episode 5!
Well, I guess I know the age of this video then 🤣
That’s a cute look for you Kim.
I have to disagree about the statement that Amity and Luz have to get together and stay together for it to be good rep. How many puppy love crushes do you know that stayed together forever? Then again kids show crushes are taken very seriously so who knows. I will say this though the Owl House is definitely _the best_ rep in children's media we have seen so far, and even if Luz and Amity don't get together it should go in the good category. It's important for kids to learn that same sex crushes are normal and who they are is wonderful.
I can see your point, but it's like I tell my students: you have to prove you can complete the fundamentals before trying a variation. How many American animations have had an LGBT main character fall in love, get together with them and taken a healthy relationship into a happily ever after? It's a basic story for straight relationships as early as fairy tales, but I honestly can't think of one LGBT example on mainstream TV. Someone has to set that baseline, and whichever show does will immediately become the standard for LGBT romances going forward. Owl house has been great at setting up the pins, so I'd love for this show to become that measuring stick
Exactly. Just like real life, not everything is exactly the way you want it. Having two characters just put together for the sake of being put together really shows a very self-destructive way of thinking. Imagine if people just stuck with people they didn't care about, nobody would be happy.
I think the Velma we got in the new Scooby-Doo show was a step in the right direction. she tried out shaggy, didn't end up liking it after trying for so long, and then tried it with a woman period that to me is fine. women in real life do this. I actually had a woman date me and then tell me she wanted to try a woman instead. Now it wasn't a very long relationship, so nothing was harmful to me, but that's just how it is.
And even then I still talk to this person she goes through women she didn't like. And it's only natural to keep trying.
@@seannetworkblogsandgames7504 Very fair point, but it does put a lot of pressure on the show and on it's creators. Luz is the first lgbt main protag in children't media, that is already a huge accomplishment especially coming from Disney. Regardless of what happens with Amity that is an achievement and it honestly feels kind of cheap like she has to _prove_ her gayness to be a complete win. We are still going up the steps of representation, we aren't at the top yet. It's a toxic idea of purity that everything has to be absolutely perfect or its bad, it hinders progress and adds to it being an uphill battle.
EXACTLY!
I mean life isn’t a fairytale
With what I saw from season one, I genuinely believe Luz and Amity will be a couple before the finale. Especially with how season one did so much great development for Amity and only under ONE season.
I bet my money they will get together by mid-end season 2, and of owl house creates season 3, then maybe early to mid season 3
boy do i have news for you
I just love The Owl House! It is really great plot and lovely characters
Your wrong watch cartoonshi video about the show to see why
@@katelawyer3689 “Pacing so horrendously fast”
Yeah No.
If we want to normalize LGBT relationships in media we Don’t need the character to outright say that they are bi or gay. I mean how many cartoon characters have you head say “I’m straight” the owl house not directly stating that luz is bi shows that they want to normalize it. Them just showing that she is bi shows that it is normal not something that someone has to outright say.
I mean, I can’t blame them really. True, I want it to be normalize, but because of most early cartoons having straight ships, having LGBT ships are refreshing for them because it didn’t happen as often as straight ships
The show may not have stated it, but Dana did confirm it on her whatever social media she uses.
I feel like that move kind of undermined that normalization that the show was trying to achieve.
Also, ships don't seem right to me regardless of the two people. It can be harmlessly fun, but it can lead to something that is less so.
@@POIUYTREWQ62 though she did confirm it that was just because people were asking. If the show itself never outright states that they are LGBTQ+ then especially children watching it will just know that it is normal. If shows keep outright stating if their characters are LQBTQ+ then it will never be considered normal.
Yeah and if they do say they are gay or bi or whatever it should be done causally like in kipo how whatever his name was (I don’t have the best memory with names) said he was gay when kipo said she might have a crush on him and then everything just went on as normal as if nothing happened and it wasn’t a big deal that’s what should happen
They never out right said it as far as I can remember though, yeah they have a bisexual flag in the background of one of the episodes, but it’s never out right said. We don’t even know if Amity is actually a lesbian or if she could be bi/pan/Omni, we all just assume she is.
What I like best about Lumity is that I love how they treated so casually like that it’s like any other ship like it’s simply a person liking another person. I have a feeling that there will be a tint of drama in Lumity when it comes to Mr and Mrs Blight. They probably won’t take a liking to Luz. And if they were to figure out amity’s crush on Luz. They probably won’t take kindly to it. They’ll discriminate Luz for not only being human and for being a girl, but for also associating with Eda and Lilith who are wanted criminals. If the blights threatened willow of expulsion, imagine what they’ll do to Luz. It will probably be something 10 times worse. Perhaps lock her up or exiled, or even executed. I also think with Boscha and her family being allies of Amity and the rest of the Blights, Boscha could play a bigger role. She probably will find out about Amity’s crush on Luz and use that information to her advantage and use it against amity. She’ll blackmail amity with her crush on Luz to get her into ditching Luz and Co, taking advantage of her weakness. And with the grom episode, her fear could be more than just being rejected by Luz. She could be scarred of rejection, coming out, being ostracized by society. I have a feeling their love story could be a Romeo and Juliet thing. Also cue the song Rewrite the Stars. Maybe either the Blights and/or the Emperors Coven could host a like a fancy party or something. Or maybe celebrate Amity’s birthday, for the nobility and powerful witches I mean. It could be like a masquerade ball. With Luz, Eda, and King NOT invited obviously. But the three crash the party anyways. And perhaps Luz and amity could dance together then.
I have ideas for dialogue of how the sneaking in scene could go
“Names.” The guard said to Luz and the others
Luz and the others then got to the gates
“Names.” The guard said
“Uhhhh....my name is Bob. Bob uhhhhh....” Luz looked over to a door to a men’s bathroom
“Mensroom”
“And I’m Bob....Bob.....” Gus looked at a sign
“Stayoffthegrass”
“And I’m Bob. Bob....” King looked at a sign
“Dontfeedthebatsquirrels”
“And I’m Bob....Bob....” VIney looked somewhere
“Mumbleson”
“I’m Bob...” Willow looked at a kid eating popcorn
“...Popcorn.”
“I’m Bob...” Eda saw a moth fly next to her
“...Moth”
“I’m Bob...” Jerbo saw a kid with a bobcut hairdo
“...Cut. And this is my dog, Bob...” Barcus woofs
“Woof.”
There are so many cute WLW relationships in cartoons and as a gay demiboi I just wish we could have just as many MLM relationships. The WLW relationships are ADORABLE but I don't identify with them as much. It would also be good for younger kids to learn that it's ok to love someone of the same gender, which boys aren't getting as much. There's Kipo and that's it in terms of MLM relationships involving kids
KP: She also voiced Bojack's mom
Burdine: Do you know who I am?! I am Burdine Maxwell, founder, president, and editor in chief of Your Thing Magazine, and the REIGNING queen of fashion!
Wendie Malick has such an amazing and distinct voice. When I watched the Owl House I immediately thought of Chicha in Emperor's New Groove and Bojack's mother. I'm surprised how well her voice fits for such different characters.
When you voice characters so well, it might be forgiven if you just use a readily familiar voice. HEAR THAT BILLY WEST??? :D
I have multiple thoughts on the matter:
1. Letting the relationship bloom at a slow pace is very important in terms of character depth. I can think of VERY FEW convincing slow burn cartoon romances, and Owl House seems to be going down this route (the route of a convincing slow burn, sorry for awkward phrasing).
2. Most stories of that type just smash main guy and main girl together during the finale without any buildup whatsoever. It is not the case here. They put thoughts into it: not only is amity not even main girl#2 (that title obviously belongs to Eda), and even a secondary character (arguably tertiary during 2 thirds of the show), but there is no romantic subplot involvement whatsoever during the finale. I think this is very important, because the finale only focuses on the characters closest to Eda. Having Amity involved somehow just to develop the romantic subplot during the finale would not only have been out of place since it would have disrupted every important emotional beat by interrupting the main plot, but also, it would have felt like clumsy, forced representation, which leads me to
3. The show isn't over. There's at least a 2nd season coming our way, and the way Amity and Luz's relationship is set up makes me think it's about to be the most emotionally satisfying cartoon romance of recent memory, or maybe even ever. Not only does it start off better than other lesbian relationships (not losing time before beginning to develop during the first however many seasons like Bubbline; not being a final "plot twist" with very little foreshadowing or emotional growth like Korrasami (typical smashing main girl and main girl together during finale); and not being as awkward and arguably toxic as Catradora), but it's also better than most straight relationship buildups in cartoon (I'm looking at you Star), being arguably much more interesting than for example Steven and Connie's relationship during the entirety of SU proper.
With all that said, I have my hopes way up for the quality of the love story to come, and I think if anybody's gonna let us down, it's going to be Disney's execs, because Terrace and her team are on a heck of a good track!
Yes, thank you. I was actually kind of annoyed when she said that these characters needed to be together before the final season. I could be reading too deep into it, but it sounded like she wanted them to be like together now. There's no build up. There's nothing natural about it. It just sounds like you want them together for the sake of being together because representation. That to me is a bad recipe, and there's nothing wrong with taking your time period that's just how it is.
my first date took me nearly a year to finally get the courage to ask the person out. We dated for 5 years after that. Between that and then? it was talking and getting to know each other, slowly building up some type of friendship that bloomed into something good. Now it may not have stayed that way, I don't speak to the person anymore, but that's just how reality is. Things don't work out no matter what happens or how long it takes.
Have representation in your animations, that's fine. But make them believable.
Well it is certain that ending the show without even seeing them fall in love and have meaningful couple interactions would achieve next to nothing, be it in terms of representation, or in terms of storytelling. There is only a set amount of episodes this show will be granted, so I agree that there needs to be constant progression in Luz and Amity's relationship, or it'll all be for nothing. Yet, I think that you are right: rushing it would be meaningless too. There is a time to develop each relationship, and since the romantic subplot is just that - a SUBplot - we can't have it be more important than the main plot, 'lest we want a second SVtFoE-style disaster. There needs to be balance, and there has been so far. I trust the team to keep up the good work, both in terms of storytelling and representation, because to me, it was near flawless so far on both sides.
I really hope they get together in the duration of the series. Usually with a lot of ships in cartoons, they don’t get together til the final episode of the entire series. I wanna see lumity be canon in the duration of the series so we could be able to see character development between them when they are in a couple, as in , the ups and downs of their relationships, conflict, creating a stronger bond
@@kmmk5022 I'll be honest with you: if they don't, I'll throw a tantrum
@@DaydreamHoneybee I mean, id be utterly shocked and devastated if they didn’t get together
"I'm not like other girls I have, SnAkE aRmS"
That was definitely a great end gag, especially with Luz's reply.
12:52- Has anyone else pointed out that Boscha basically wrote a racial slur on Luz's face. I know "round ears" isn't an actual slur, but given the context in-story it seems like its supposed to be.
So Boscha is basically racist/humanist
I don't personally mind waiting for the ending if it fits the themes. Like she ra was a show ABOUT them getting together. So it made sense for it to be at the end.
I certainly think it would be nice if they got together near the end of season two, or perhaps mid way through season 3 if that gets greenlit, since Dana is on record saying that season 3 will include luz's quinceanera if the show gets a season three confirmation
I would watch you cover other things be it the big shows every one covers like Owl House, Amphibia, Kipo , Loud House or older shows from a long time ago like Real Ghostbusters or Freakazoid or Gargoyles. Just do whatever it is you feel you want to do.
Coming back to this today, July 31, air date of “Knock, Knock, Knockin’ on Hooty’s Door”
Same lol!🙏
Ladies and gentlemen, we got them
I agree with having them cannon before the finale but we don't want it to happen too soon cause it wound feel very forced if they don't do it right by the sounds of the Reddit AmA it sounds like we're going to get more for the Blights meaning Amity will most likely be on screen a lot more and I think that's gonna be the main focus of season 2 not counting all the other stuff the be solved
I mean perhaps around mid season 2. Though, I heard Dana is probably not gonna focus so much on lumity season 2. So if Dana were to make a season 3, then maybe season 3
@@kmmk5022 Lumity or not I'm excited for season 2
@@Detective_Grav yeah when will that season 2 come out?
@@kmmk5022 I think it's gonna be a little bit before Amphibia season 2 b comes out so around Feb-March 2021
@@Detective_Grav So 3-4 months?
I love that show, so funny and creative. It's like Little Witch Academia but gayer.
"It's too early to say, but I'll give it a chance..."
_Season 2 Hooty "filler episode" says: "Hi, hoot hoot!"_
I really hope Amity and Luz kiss in season 2
Me too!
They make an adorable couple!
I hope so too! Not only because of representation, but because I am so sick and tired of the will-they-won’t-they trope
@shaquille mccray I have the same concern. Honestly, the problem with SVTFOE was two fold: there were too many other relationships going on and Starco was dragged out until the very end. As long as Lumity is the only real relationship in the show and it is not dragged out until the very end, it should be fine.
@@BugVlogs yeah starcos story writing was literately like something out of a fanfiction
Don’t we all wanna see a lumity kiss
Its definitely a pretty neat show.
I always have this fear when something starts off promising like this. Luz and Amity have a good start, but it'd be very easy for Amity's parents to force her to sabotage her relationship with Luz before anything happens, similar to how they forced her to end her friendship with Willow, and then maybe only pair Luz and Amity up at the very last second in the series finale.
Mikaila, how would you rate the representation on The Loud House?
To me; I think Clyde's dads are incredibly sweet, that Luna and Sam's relationship may have a bright future ahead and even the minor couple (Lainey and Alice) from the episode Singled Out are pretty good examples
I absolutely love Luna and Sam as a couple!
They are so cute together!!
@@HDWarrior2483 Not to mention that they act the same way a "normal" couple would, as shown in Racing Hearts
Bruh I love the casualty of their intro. Just, "oh I hi Mr mcbride. Hi Mr mcbride" that's probably my favorite scene in animation. Just a huh moment then it's over. Like good omens.
@@elijahbrown1041 Same, dude; the scene was short but it was sweet and felt completely normal.
Howard/Howie's behavior felt exactly like how a mother would behave
@@sadlobster1 yeah I actual had to rewatch it because it was so fluid.
Personally the dance scene from Enchanting Grom Night kinda reminded me of that one scene from the anime movie Revolutionary Girl Utena: Adolescence. Such a classic moment.
"analyzing lgbt representation in western animation"? I had fun decoding that, thanks for putting it in!
and cute version of the OC! +^w^+
Fun fact: during the Grom dance we see a mlm couple dancing together
Bottom line i accept everything god created gay, lesbian, straight, or whatever and i ask why not you too?
I seriously love this show and I'm a huge lumity shipper!!!!!
Lol, I've been a subscriber for almost a year now!
I love the owl house. At first I thought it was a silly Kid show. But then when I watch the first episode I fell in love with the show
Yeah, the current low representation of gay male characters compared to gay female characters is striking. Is it really that gay female characters are an easier sell? Maybe it's easier to make female characters progressive. Maybe it's just the preference of the creators of the shows to make the gay characters female. Maybe it's something else. Who knows. It is a little strange, though.
It could be because there tend to be more lesbians and bisexual women working on these shows than gay and bisexual men.
Even if it was the case of "More women than men", a diverse cast should be something to strive for regardless of what group you belong to.
I think it's easier to see WLW relationships as "really close friendships" if the romantic nature of their relationships is subtle enough. Women are seen to be more emotional and closer with their friends, whereas men typically aren't. Women sometimes call their friends their "BFFs." Men usually refer to them as their "buddies." Women can call their female friends their "girlfriends" without it automatically being seen as a gay relationship. Men can't. Women are usually seen hugging their female friends. Men are usually seen giving them a pat on the back or a handshake. You could see that as the difference between male culture and female culture, but I think it's all just about society. Women are allowed to have close, emotional bonds with their friends. When men have close, emotional bonds with their friends, they're either dating, or they're just really "girly." So when two men are dating, it's more obvious, and those who can't see it are probably either really, really dense, or they're in denial. But two women can be dating and most people will genuinely see it as a really close friendship, because straight girls can be like that.
Lesbian college was not a phrase I didn't know I needed to hear. lol
Don’t worry, they become girlfriends in season 2 ep 8. And we still have another 10-15 after that for girlfriend stuffs 👍
You think Eda's voice is bad? King's is just Bill with less reverb. Yes Alex Hirsch also voiced Bill.
We got it
Mid season 2 amity and Luz are officially girlfriends
I kind of disagree. They are kids and I think kids need to see same sex crushes as normal; I think these need to be normalized just as much as the relationships themselves. Personally I love the representation in toh, but that might just be because I’m starved for rep but idk
I don’t under stand what your saying?
@@anticountyfairx8652 I think Evie is trying to say that as much as LGBTQ+ representation has been happening with teen and adult characters. They'd like it more if networks used that same representation for preteen characters as well (i.e. ten to thirteen year olds or so)
I find The Owl House to be as Great and Entertaining as Gravity Falls and Kim Possible
This was incredible and I really love the owl house from the bottom of my heart and I love the characters so much and I think they may become a thing before the last episode and this video was extremely well edited and like the background music and I love how you added each detail in the bottom showing where you got the clip that must take a lot of work and you did fantastic and hope you and your family have a great day/stay safe. 👍🏼⭐️❤️🦉❤️⭐️👍🏼
I’m about to say something controversial
Luz + Anne = DORA
*w h e e z e*
Lmao
NOOOooooooOOOOOO! LOL
its still very very early. they will get together, almost guaranteed. if they dont i will cry
I mean I’d be utterly shocked and devastated if they didn’t get together
If this follows the established patterns, they will drag this out as long as humanly possible.
@@irahays3869 spoiler: got some news for ya you'r wrong they got together and they are so cute
@@Creative_mess4 Quite happy to BE WRONG, Laura. Nobody likes to needlessly strung along.
I do like your Owl House OC.
Please stop including Korra. Korra was a shallow, last minute attempt at virtue signaling as confirmed by its creators. They were never developed, interesting or well written
They weren’t allowed to. That tiny bit of signaling broke the ground for every show that followed. There is a comic sequel that allows them to develop as soon as they are off the screen and on the page, because the readership for comics is much smaller than the audience for television that it’s okay for Korra and Asami to kiss as soon as they leave that medium with all the production hell.
Every bit of better representation stands on the shoulders of the giants that came before them. Korra and Asami held hands so that Ruby and Sapphire could kiss so that Luz and Amity can be canon GFs before their main plot gets resolved. As someone that has been watching shows since the 90s, each small step has been significant in its own right. Otherwise we would continue to just get gay background characters instead of main protagonists.
I was into the show because it interested me after SVTOE ended. This is so like the American version of Little Witch Academia. Glad this is getting recognized & I shipped Lumity from ep 5.
The LGBTQ representation is one of the many things that makes the Owl House so interesting at least in my opinion, in fact it makes it so interesting that if it turned out that all the main and supporting female characters in the series were either lesbian or bisexual, i for one would have no problem with that.
It’s pretty good no one realy has a problem with it I like it very much and it was really great to see the main antagonist fal in a sort of love with the shortGillian lik
All? Why all? That's not realistic. Granted, this is a cartoon, but even in real life that's still highly doubtful.
You can have a bunch of them, but don't just sit there and say all of them are gay or bisexual, that's just not realistic. like I said it's a cartoon, but even cartoons need to have some realism.
@@ItsRetroPlanet True they may not go full on LGBTQ with the series, but like you said it's a cartoon so you never know.
I loved the explain of what makes good LGBTQ rep! Some people will say "oh it showed the gay for .05 seconds in the season finale you got your rep what more do you want?" and this was a perfect explaination to those people why/what we need more of.
Yes, but the forced "they need to stay together" just as harmful period just like real life, I feel like cartoons need to understand that not everything works out. That's why I felt Velma was believable. she tried something with shaggy after spending so much time trying to get the two of them to actually do things, then she tried it with a woman and while I don't know what happened at the end of that, it was a lot more believable than "oh, the characters are just happy together. They never broke up, or they never had problems."
I know it's a cartoon, but it's still grounded by some realism. I would hope.
@@ItsRetroPlanet Oh I didn't mean it as in they had to stay together I meant to show their sexuality and relationship more than just 2 seconds at the end. So you actually have representation not just a clip that can be easily edited out. I totally agree that they should show that relationships don't work. This might be a hot take but Steven and Connie I thought should have broken up. But yeah people say "Oh you got to see someone hold hands for two seconds that's all the gay you need" when it is important to show the actual relationship and them having crushes just like they do with straight characters
I mean, if Luzs mom finds out about the isles if there was a way to get back to the human realm and other people from the boiling isles figuring out amity’s crush, especially mr and mrs blight, Luz and amity’s relationship will have complications
I didn’t know wendie Malik was in bojack horseman
"Is because of it's take on representation"
In short, because gay. That's all I need.
I don't get a bi vibe from Luz yet. She strikes me as in that phase of puberty when you're not interested in romance. You see it happening, you know you'll have feelings about it one day but not now. Like in Pepper Ann, while PA was crushing on one boy, her friend Nicky wasn't. I think that switch will flip for Luz but right now I don't feel it.
Well the creator of the owl house confirmed luz is bi
I’m sure puberty will hit Luz someday and make Luz get interested in romance, but for now, she’s too preoccupied with other things
"Good representation means getting explicit with their sexuality, getting together before the finale, and staying together."
I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this. You don't have to be explicit with every action or commentary. Also, just like real life, sometimes people can also take their time with actually getting together with a person.
I'm just saying that subtlety isn't inherently bad. just like how a straight relationship can have handset something more, so should every other relationship you could think of. Also, staying with a person doesn't necessarily translate to being good either. Sometimes a relationship is just bad. Not saying that every relationship is bad, but sometimes things just don't click. Maybe the writers want to experiment, just like with velma. She had a thing for shaggy, and then it didn't work out. She tried something with a woman, and unfortunately I don't know what happens there but I can only assume that she eventually found something good for her.
The bottom line is, not everything has to be forced, not everything has to be explicit, and sometimes subtlety can be a good thing.
That would be true IF there was ever an explicit gay relationship or main character in children’s animation that was made explicit before the last episode of the show. Marceline and Bubblegum got together explicitly in the last episode. Korra and Asami got together (somewhat) explicitly in the last episode. Jackie from Star vs was IMPLIED to have a girlfriend. Catra and Adora get together explicitly in the last episode. The only two children’s cartoons that made things explicit before the ending are/were The Loud House (Luna and Sam) and technically Steven Universe. And Luz and Amity don’t even have to be a couple for their sexuality to be explicit. Just have Luz say that she’s bi or Amity say that she only likes girls or something. Heterosexual characters are allowed to be explicit with their crushes and have explicit relationships throughout kids cartoons all the time. Think about a character like Mabel. She wasn’t subtle about her crushes, and neither was Dipper, and Wendy and Zeus were allowed to be in relationships long before the show ended, and nobody is complaining that their character arcs were being rushed or that things were too explicit or that they were too young for this. Why can’t we have a children’s show where the same is true for LGBT characters?
@@nicolersands I can't speak for every show but I'm pretty sure the reason why princess bubblegum and Marceline finally got that kiss in was because it's cartoon Network was against having gay relationships because of the Christian viewers. I guess they just didn't want any conflict with their current viewers, so having them kiss at the very last possible second was probably the developers way of getting back at it period at least that's what I was told, so I can only assume that's what happened.
Star wars is fucking terrible now, I don't even want to think about those movies. They're the worst things that ever happened since the birth of jar jar Binks and the explanation of what the force is. I could give two shits about any of the characters in those movies now. Thanks disney.
I've never watched the one with Mabel in it. How old are those kids again? Like seven? Why are we talking about their sexuality when they're not even teenagers yet?
Anyway, the person in the video was explaining representation like it needed to be the main focus. And that nothing bad can happen to the actual relationship going on period that the two characters that get together needed to stay together. That's not how relationships work. They don't just become partners for life right away, that's ridiculous. That's called an arranged marriage at that point.
what I'm driving for is for people to take their time building up these relationships whether they're heterosexual or gay. make them believable, they don't need to be made out to be things right away unless it's at the very beginning of the show where we acknowledge that they are together, or if they are introduced later on. if they're together before we even know anything, then it's whatever period we already acknowledge that they exist. But if you're trying to build a relationship with two different characters that we already know about, it needs to come naturally. Humans don't just pair up with each other and stay together forever. There are problems that come with everything. Have them fight over something, or disagree on something. I'm so sick and tired of people just wanting things to just happen as if two years of somebody's life just happened in two seconds.
I think the "fairytale ending" has been used with a lot of straight relationships. Anna and Kristoff (Frozen), for example, don't start dating until the "epilogue." Ariel and Eric (The Little Mermaid) didn't technically kiss until the very end, and then it just cuts to their wedding. The same could be said for Rapunzel and Eugene (Tangled), as the progression of their relationship is very similar (down to the boat ride and song which ends with them almost kissing). Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Beauty and the Beast, so many movies, especially Disney movies, don't have the characters kiss (or even get together) until the very end. There are some exceptions (Aladdin, for example), but for the most part, it's pretty much the standard. It's a classic storytelling device. Of course, it could be easier for that to fly because straight relationships are so normalized already, and there are still a lot of people who either don't agree with or just flat out hate the LGBT+ community. It would be nice to have better representation (which is why I think Elsa is better off as aroace rather than lesbian, considering the bigger intensity to which they/we are overlooked, ignored, or not taken seriously), but if straight relationships can get a "fairytale ending," I think LGBT couples can get them as well.
I honestly wanna beat Lilith up. She’s the worst. Also the owl
House is coming to Disney plus on the 30th
8:28 uuuuhhhmmmm....
Holl up.....
Look closely.....
Oh no
*Insert Knuckles "Oh no"*
OMG IT TOOK ME SOME TIME TO GET IT BUT I-
Hi, I'm from the future and lumity is definitely going to be acted upon,
SPOILERS AHEAD
Luz is starting reciprocate and its adorable, beautiful, and hilarious all at the same time to watch
Another great show that does this well, if you haven't already heard of it, is The Dragon Prince. In fact it does all sorts of relationships well.
Platonic, familial, romantic. All are presented and developed well.
Alex uses almost the exact same voice he did for Bill Cipher as King. I love it.I think of Wendie Malick more like from Emperor's New Groove.
The thing is that when he voices them he uses his normal voice. But it is altered by a microphone
I heard people saying that amity developing a crush on luz so soon isn't realistic. But even though I'm pan not a lesbian, I've developed chrushes on people just from saying hi to them.
Like my brain is just "wow thats a pretty person hm I guess I'm in love now"
to be fair...this is only season 1. theyve already done so well that im willing to wait and see how well they go from here.
One of my contacts for a friend is just amity gay panicking
I LOVE the Owl House. Eda is my favourite 😂😂
" i have snake arms"
Huh, unintentional forshadowing
aquí representando a los latinos, hola xd me encanto el video a pesar de no hablar mucho ingles si entendí y estoy de acuerdo eh aquí una suscriptora latina
Your Chanel went down hill... however coming back to this is amazing! I hope it starts too shoot back up since seeing this cool shit is gooddddd
7:38 in fairness about them getting together before the finale- 9:17-9:21 -okay never mind that’s the BS I was thinking.
I think it’s very good that amity has an explicit crush on luz like any straight characte would
what about that family tree nobody gonna talk about the bottom furthest left
2:10 hercules refrigerations
@@ILoveKimPossibleAlot your welcome 😏👌
well we have to get an update with S2! We got a kiss now! And also now its really really obvious both like each other!!
Keep in mind that The Flintstones--and The Jetsons for that matter--started off as a prime-time animated sitcom. Family-friendly yes, but not a children's show. There had been other such shows before The Simpsons, but The Simpsons was the first one since The Jetsons to be a major hit.
total corect :) everyone can love who he wants.
Dana Terrance herself is bisexual and she wanted to make Luz Bisexual too and I think that's cool
So you're in the Bard and Oracle magic tracks.
@@ILoveKimPossibleAlot Sweet! Telling fortunes through music... I think, we still don't know much about the Bard Track.
Disney plus did pick this up, so I did watch it. I enjoyed and possibly the part that I really like that an entire civilization and culture developed from a giant corpse! The Boiling Isles is the corpse of a giant, and I think parts of him are still alive. I do like the development and I really liked the episode where they speared Quidditch from Harry Potter. Luc is 14 at this point in the show, and I agree she doesn't really think too far into sexual identity. She's a jump-in-think-later type of person. There are a lot of mysteries that I'm looking forward to seeing solved, such as who is sending Luc's mom letters from camp and signing Luc's name to them.
I agree the settlement of Luc and Amiti's relationship should be settled before the show ends, but in the meantime I like the way it is developing.
It’s amity And Luz with a z not a c
I remember I was reading wings of fire and I got confused if I just read something wrong or if their was a pair of gay characters(I’m a straight supporter) so I googled it and saw a lot of comments about how it ruined the character which was very homophobic. Don’t know why I’m saying this story but I am.
I actually separated their voices in my mind until you played them right after each other
Sorry KP sempai, can't watch this video cause I've still not watched this show, so... I'll just leave you with this comment
My grandmas is also named Luz and that... is kinda awkward ;w;U
Owl house is coming to Disney plus on October 30 2020. So you can binge it on Halloween if you want although Mandolorian season 2 also comes out on the 30th. Do what you want with this information I don’t know.
holy cRAP ITS ILOVETHEOWLHOUSEALOT NOW
KP: do the Gravity fall cops count?
America: how dare you assume their gender!
Happy to be a part of this video. This show and lgbt rep are very near and dear to me and I hope everything falls into its proper place soon.
Huh.... Bard and Oracle Coven? Huh. I would've guessed Bard and Illusion tracks, perfect for a Princess of Discord
What do you think about the Review from Cartoonshi?
more owl house videos would be nice :')
also i love the editing
As Mr.EvilConservativeGuy, on most things, ;) progress on the alphabet issues in mainstream animation is real, palpable, and gaining acceptance nearly every day! I was never shocked or offended by the sapphic implications of Steven Universe, Star Butterfly's faint ambiguity, and the character development in Owl House is downright cute. Disney, of all companies, has me languishing in a "will they or won't they" between Amity and Luz.
"Me?
On a team with you?
Running around in cute uniforms?
SWEATING?? (blushes)
I GOTTA GO!" ~Amity
This is not only comedy gold, it's sweet as hell.
There is a gay man couple in Big City Greens.
Edit: Well it’s hinted at, in the valentines dance episode you can see Terry and Alexander dancing and Alexander blushing.
Hwo else just thout of grunkle stan when they heard the little demon also yes I know that it is grunkles voice actor
Mabey Luz dose know and she likes Amity to but just acts oblivious because she gonna go back to her world some day and leave Amity and she dosen't want to make her sad or hurt her.
can we get an update with season 2? there is clear signs that this ship will be cannon soon!! plus there's still another season coming up!!!
Amitty FUCKING KISSED LUZ I AM SO HAPPY LUMITY SHIP FOR LIFE
Edit NOW THEY BE GOING ON A DATE AND THEIR GIRLFRIEND AND GIRLFRIEND KIM YOU WERE DEAD WRONG ON YOUR PREDICTION THESE TWO ARE THE BEST THINGS TO COME OUT OF DISNEY NOW
@@derpymuffin02 same!!!
I hope no one hears kings voice for the first time watching this and think he actually sounds like grunkle stan
Disney: Luz is our first bisexual character
Shang: “AM I A JOKE TO YOU?”
2:11 Hercules reference
1:16 When I hear the voice of King Demon I'd think of Bill
6:31 "... I don't know why."
Because homophobia is ultimately an expression of patriarchial authoritarianism. It's a hierarchy in which a man will always have a higher status than a woman of equal wealth, lineage and education. So if a man has a same-sex relationship with another man, it's seen as a rejection of the status that comes with having the Y chromosome and an attack on the system. This is also true for other "unmanly" behaviour, such as cooking, wearing "girly" clothes, playing with puppets and so on.
If women on the other hand enter same-sex relationships, it's easier for the homophobes to overlook because of their perceived lower status. The behaviour of the women can also be interpreted as a form of ambition by the homophobes: "Aww, they're trying to be like me", which they might find flattering rather than threatening. Attributes like ambition, aggressiveness, determination and so on also tend to be considered good character traits in patriarchial systems. I could also phrase it like this: homophobes also tend to be misogynists, so their disdain for lesbian couples is kinda intermingled with a disdain for women in general, which makes it more broad but also a bit weaker or dilluted.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that gay women have it easier than gay men or that I agree with any of those views. But people who measure the world with double standards will have double standards.
Anyway, that's basically the reason for the underrepresentation of same-sex relationships between males in those shows - in my opinion.
Love your O.C design.
In the Dutch dub for The Owl House they changed ‘’friend’’ to ‘’girlfriend’’ when referring Amity/Luz’s relationship
English: (Edric talking to Amity abt Luz) Don’t be such a jerk to your friend
Amity: She’s not my friend!
Dutch: (Same Context) Don’t be so rude to your girlfriend-
Amity: She’s not my girlfriend!
Mouth movements don’t even match up, they didn’t need to do that. But they DID.
I think the reason there's less mlm relationship is also cause most the creators of these shoes are women who have more of a wlw experience and such so they put that into their show, but I do wish there was more mlm, I can relate to wlw relationships but there's something special about seeing something that matches you more closely in that way
Love your character art for your owl house videos. KP with elf ears hehehehe
Honestly. I feel like people value the shipping more than plot. Whether it be LGBTQ or hetero it's getting out of hand. And don't even get me started on the Toxic Fandoms
I’m sure people will get interested in the plot. I heard Dana might not focus so much on lumity season 2, leaving more room for people to be interested in the plot
America: Ok so all we need to do is get Democrats and republicans to set aside their issues and work together on 1 issue, do their jobs, and actually help the citizens for once rather then fighting with eachother, pocketing tons of money, and doing nothing.
American: 0:44
Fans: hey! Disney is catching up!
Disney: yeah yeah, gimme yo money tho
Anyway, luz is a dynamic kid who's not yet into romantic relationships. Amity never really thought about that and now got hit hard but is also shy. For their age seems like a good depiction to me. I'm not in the lgbt community, but still I'm a human being and I've been a kid, so....