I will never, ever forget how casually my DM from my weekly D&D game said I was a "leech on society" because I receive disability benefits. For my cerebral palsy. People who are healthy, disability-free? They have no idea.
Shit, wish you could join our D&D group and leave that loser 😅 You'd think, "being normal about disabled people," would be a pretty low bar for a DM who has to work with people to play a collaborative game, but...
@@lightworthy Oh that's probably the best part. When I was working on getting my doctor to sign off on my disability support application, he looked me dead in the face and said, "If I can't get my own son on disability, why should I do it for you?" (Because his son was in a wheelchair and disability was giving him the usual run-around - deny, deny, deny until you force a tribunal... same thing ended up happening to me.) Just, right there in front of me and my dad. I'm kind of amazed that my dad didn't just obliterate him right then and there.
@@unholierthanthou7748 Thing is, he wasn't speaking in a derogatory way. By that I mean he wasn't saying it out of anger or malice or bitterness or any of that. He just... said it. Off the cuff, innocent as could be. It's one of the less fun parts about being a disabled person: people just saying the most insane and out-of-pocket stuff in their ignorance.
It’s interesting that Anya’s reason for being afraid of giving Curly his meds is because “it just hurts him so much”, where she’s sympathetic to his pain but unable to handle it due to her own trauma, while Jimmy, who is Curly AND Anya’s abuser and has taken up the mantle of responsibility that no one asked him to do, wants to give Curly the meds to “keep him quiet.” It’s such an interesting dichotomy, that Anya wants to help but can’t give Curly what he needs because she likely fears dehumanizing him further, while Jimmy is fine giving them to him because he’s already so used to dehumanizing him, even before the crash (although while Curly was idolized pre-crash, post-crash Curly is seen as a burden by him). Curly really can’t win. Ableism is so entrenched in the Pony Express atmosphere (from their insane work hours to refusing to help employees with formal complaints), that even those well intentioned on the ship end up failing him.
“even those well intentioned on the ship end up failing him” is such a good way to put it. It’s really sad that that phrase could apply to Anya as well. Curly and Anya are two sides of a similar coin, sharing the same abuser and with the best of intentions unable to alleviate the suffering of each other. Anya cannot forcibly insert medication down the throat of Curly because of her trauma and possibly pregnancy-induced nausea. And Curly couldn’t protect Anya from Jimmy because Curly had trusted someone who took advantage of their friendship but who always resented him, and a large part of Curly’s inaction was because the company, cutting corners where they can, left the only means of resolving conflict on this long haul space freighter a gun. Of course even after the heinous thing Jimmy did, Curly would want to give Jimmy the possibly to repent and take responsibility for what he’s done: no one would just jump straight to shooting a friend. But that effectively meant Jimmy continued to roam around without consequence. I really would have liked to know what Curly was thinking when watching Anya end it all, and then when he was being carried by Jimmy into the cryo pod. of course because the game is from Jimmy’s perspective it might have cut down the whole thesis of Jimmy’s inability to consider anyone other than himself or to actually take responsibility (rather than what he ASSUMES taking responsibility would be), but I would have liked even just one last curly segment with Anya post-crash, that way even without Jimmy there could be some sort of voice given a voice to the two most silenced people in the game.
@ I agree so much. The ableism and prioritization of money over all else really is the biggest villain, cus it left people who are otherwise decent to fend for themselves and be unable to effectively do any good. I love how human the characters in this game feel
@@gregjayonnaise8314 Yeah. The whole thing is... a lot. I think about the thing Anya says, "I dont want to believe our worst moments make us monsters." Fuck, man.
This is a really insightful perspective, especially 'even the well-intentioned end up failing', because it's very true to life. Systems of oppression and injustices are often not only reinforced by people of ill-intent, but also by people of good will who are, for whatever reason, unable to push back against them. At the end of the day, I think it comes down mostly to a combination of ignorance; people either not knowing better or not know how to do better, and either not caring or being exhausted by the effort. The malicious parties who benefit from the imbalance will always put their hand on the scale, but the bulk of what enables injustice is when people don't actively make the effort to change things for the better. Education and activism are the tools for positive change, but it still requires people going out and doing the hard work.
So little empathy, in too many people. Even though the best way to get someone to stop complaining is usually to just _help them._ Is that so hard for people to get?
@@hazukichanx408 I'm not physically disabled, but one of the most infuriating and saddening things about my mental disability is how much *less* of a burden I'd be now, how much more capable, how much better I'd be, if my parents had helped me when I needed it. They "helped" in that they provided resources, they did things for me. But they never, say, taught me to take care of myself. Taught me how to do the things you need to learn as an adult. Coming to grips with that recently has been very frustrating. If I can somehow drag myself out of this hole of helplessness I've got to live with the fact that I've lost decades of my life and all of my potential success to my parents not being willing to give a little bit of help when I needed it. I've only ever had two extremes of being spoiled and having everything done for me, or being neglected and ignored at best. All I ever needed was a little bit of help. Just the bare minimum of emotional engagement. I hate it. And I hate that because they've done so much it feels like I can't be mad about the fact that they didn't do the one thing they actually needed to do. I'll be eternally thankful for their financial support and for how much they've done for me, but sometimes I get so angry at the fact that they didn't teach me to be a functioning human being.
Physically disabled over here, with C-PTSD from adenomyosis that had me in severe pain for years and had my body shutting down from sheer exhaustion when I finally got my hysterectomy at 26. The thing that stuck with me was what the pain meds WERE, because I've taken them. Even at the beginning chronologically when they were well stocked, "the good stuff" was given in such a low dose for such severe injuries that it really wouldn't have done much of anything. By the end, they were giving paracetamol (tylenol) in the dose you'd take for a headache. I had to pause the let's play and just... sit with that for a while.
24:45 Swansea was the one that resonated with me. The man who decided to "get his life together." Start a family, work hard, get a house, and a hopefully decent job. But at the end of the day, no matter how hard he worked, no matter how much he struggled to stay sober and "do the right thing," it was simply impossible to feel good about what he was doing. And the happiest he ever was, wasn't when he got the house or the family or the job, it was when he was drunk and passed out on a couch. And those days are long gone. I've seen hard work pay off, sure. But I've also seen hard work amount to nothing because the people in charge decide you're completely disposable. Just a number, hell not even that, just a part of a bar chart that needs to be cut because we have to appease the shareholders. And then you're back on the street due to no part of your own. But heeeey, you have skills right? You'll just rebound right? One door closes, another opens, right? I'm sure more corporate slogans and empty platitudes will definitely work this time.
For quite i a while i though his personality to be a bit stereotipical (the bitter lazy drunk)... but he totally turned around during the last part of the game, and 100% understood him. Fantastic character.
@@tonk82 The thing about the stereotypical drunk is that the stereotype is not bad, but rather how it is handled. SOMETIMES they go into why they became a drunk, but seldom more than that, and maybe they resolve it by "Hey, we solved the reason for them being alcoholic, so now they are getting better!" But the problem is... Well, to quote discworld "He was vaguely aware that he drank to forget. What made it rather pointless was that he couldn’t remember what it was he was forgetting anymore. In the end he just drank to forget about drinking." The alcohol abuse started as a crutch, then became the disability itself.
I'm nearly 150 days sober, and the idea of maintaining sobriety for fifteen years, only to be trapped on a ship hauling a lifetime supply of your vice, kept at bay for so many challenging days, is both deeply heartbreaking, and upsetting. Then to make matters worse, almost immediately after he inevitably relapses, his addiction is used to manipulate him, and ultimately results in him having to mercy kill a friend. Unbelievably brutal. Mouthwashing is a beautiful nightmare.
Oh I LOVE this analysis. He also ended up being one of my favorite characters in the end. ESPECIALLY because Swansea is the only person who rightfully realized that Jimmy needed to be f*cking killed as soon as Anya told him what happened. He DID do the right thing; he had enough of a backbone to realize there were crewmembers that needed his protection and support. But even then, in the spirit of the wretchedness of this game, he wasn't really a paragon of virtue -- he clearly didn't pick up on what was going on until the very end, and only tried to kill Jimmy when the people he wanted to protect were already dead. 'Avenging' is only so redeeming of a quality, in the grand scheme of things. But that plays to Swansea's character too, only able to pick himself up and turn things around AFTER hitting rock bottom by way of alcoholism (passing out under a streetlight, passing out after getting drugged, etc). Anyway, all that to say that yeah, there's so much about Swansea's character that was so well-written and could totally be missed in the meta-discussion.
The last time I heard a koolaid-pilled drone blathering on about Kids These Days™ and how they "have no work ethic" I told him that the only real difference between his generation and my generation that was when he worked hard he was allowed to get ahead, and when I worked hard I was allowed to survive. He said nothing to that and I followed up with "Whether or not the Kids These Days™ will be allowed to survive remains to be seen, and nothing is making it any easier no matter how hard they work.". Haven't heard any regurgitated slogans out of that one since.
I always disliked takes about how Curly got what was coming to him for being, like. A Normal Guy levels of stupid enabler. I've had friends who are no worse than Curly, who are blind to the abuse of their friends in turn, but it always has that tone of "we can't win against the real abusers, the real abusers are untouchable" and a tacit transfer of blame to the people who "should have stopped" the abuse. It's blame-shifting -- it's blaming Curly for Jimmy's actions, it's othering the abuser into an unknown and blaming the ones we *do* know. Great video. Thank you.
Medical Insurance: Ok, so here are the hoops you have to jump through or else you won't get health care. Disabled person finally manages to get through all the hoops. Insurance: See, you made it through all those hoops! You've proven you don't need health care.
Yep, been there...also things like "you can't work while disabled or that proves your not disabled, but you also need extensive, expensive medical testing to prove your condition, but also if someone is acting as a care giver for you (spouse, namely), then they can cover your costs so we're not providing anything". I swear we spend more on the hoops than it'd cost to just give everyone coverage.
Im disabled and an sa survivor i love how mouthwashing parallels the two of them, the loss of autonomy, the dehumanisation, the way some people are grossed out by our existence, find us a burden, dont believe us or think we deserve it is something both experience. Great video steph i loved mouthwashing but it definitely did hurt.
I'm so glad to hear your perspective. I love this juxtaposition but I worried it may have come off badly to actual people affected by those issues. It does seem like they put a ton of thought and care into depicting terrible things.
Yeah, I've mostly only seen discourse on whether or not Curly "deserved" becoming disabled as punishment, but to me it seemed not so much punishment, but a narrative of cruel parallel situations -- Curly failed to protect a vulnerable member of his crew, and now he himself is in a vulnerable position. And in both cases, Jimmy was the one who caused it
Seriously glad to have been able to help make this video happen, glad my footage was good, and just proud as hell to be involved in something that takes an extremely good look at an aspect of the game few have spoken about, so as a fellow chronic pain sufferer, thank you for that. And thank you for the shout out, I seriously appreciate it.
As soon as Steph mentioned how people can see disabled people as monsters, I finally got why some people read Gregor Samson's plight in Metamorphosis through a disability lens. That's one of the hallmarks of a great piece of analysis: it makes you reconsider things you've previously experienced.
Jesus. Third attempt at leaving a comment. First was hidden by RUclips and the second deleted. I wouldn't mind "something" happening to the family in the story, considering how quickly and venomously they turned on the person who kept them alive for years. A great story, though.
True. I've always seen it as being about mental illness and especially depression, but it's the same theme, being seen as less than human when you can't contribute to society anymore. When you are neither useful nor fun to be around.
As a Jewish dood like Kafka, I always thought it was about being Jewish. You're always at risk of being seen as vermin for any reason at all, and forced to go through life despite that.
I fully get people hating the mouthwashing fandom because the amount of genuine ableism I've seen from it towards curly makes my stomach turn. Many of them cannot grasp that curly being indecisive and complicit in what happened to anya and also him being a victim too are both true statements. Saying he deserved to be disabled/force fed his own leg/should have been raped instead of anya because he didn't know how to react to finding out his friend is a monster is beyond disgusting. it completely misses several major points of the game and of anya's character.
I'd personally posit that Curly was a victim of Jimmy's even before the crash- not to the same degree as Anya, of course, but I think it's pretty clear that he's used to Jimmy berating him and shaming him into following along and covering for him.
@@CollinBuckman That's a point that's extremely easy to miss. You don't need to be outright and openly harmed to be a victim of an abuser. Being gaslit, shamed and manipulated are all a form of abuse too. It doesn't mean Curly is excused for being an enabler on a personal level, or the responsibility he's failed as a captain. But he is painfully human. And empathy for him doesn't necessarily preclude empathy for Anya. Like you say, they're both very much victims of Jimmy.
Wait, huh? I have never seen that last awful Curly take before, holy cannolis! That is awful! Frankly people who think stuff like "this guy reacted wrong to an incredibly distressing and jarring situation, so he deserves to be raped!" really aren't ready to engage with media like Mouthwashing yet! That is a _terrifyingly wrong take_ and I wish I could un-know that people apparently think that.
@@CollinBuckman there are definitely hints showing curly might have been psychologically and emotionally abused by jimmy. The game just makes me so sad, i really wish curly never met jimmy and none of the characters suffered
It's a powerful speech. Not just the words, but the emotion, the passion, the frustration behind them. It's always good to know we're not alone... that there are people out there who _do_ know and understand what we're going through.
Not gonna lie- it always irked me that research shows a “lower pain threshold” in chronic pain patients (i.e. a touch that would not phase the average person too much, is already painful to those with chronic pain). But in the context of “what if we broke somebody’s arm and (after a while with pain) THEN had a re-test what they thought was painful”, I’d imagine a very similar outcome. The mind is already way to preoccupied with keeping the CONSTANT pain in check, that it can’t deal with a lot more.
I research chronic pain, been working with something called the Orgonometer for 4 years. Consider checking it out? I don’t sell them but I’m told they can stop chronic pain. Either way wishing you the best.
@@Anomalyresearchlabs might be placebo because it's sadly pseudoscience and not proven. Please no one actually spend money on this. A lot of places taking advantage of people's desperation for relief. Keep yourself safe and if anything sounds to good to be true with pain relief sadly it is. Ps. Sorry I know you're just trying to help. Just be careful with these kinds of things that people can get exploited with. Have had family loose a lot because of this kind of stuff.
As a person with chronic, and often debilitating, pain, I've never felt more seen during a video essay. Able bodied people dont think it'll ever be them, but anyone could be wrapped in bandages and bedbound by tomorrow, putting them at the mercy of other people who in turn think it'll never be them. Many people are fine one day, and changed forever the next. Most people become disabled before they die. Disability justice is justice for everyone. Thanks so much for the video, JSS. You made me cry!
I wish more abled bodied people would realise how disability can happen to anyone. Before the pandemic I was able-bodied-ish (I suffered an injury in 2018 or so and didn't get it looked at until 2020 where medication wouldn't fix it at all. So while I still could walk I was still in slight pain), still disabled mentally and with undiagnosed ADHD at the time. But I could walk and stand for long periods of time. But something in my back messed up, and for a few months at the end of 2020 to the start of 2021 I was bedridden because I could not walk properly. It was the most horrible moment in my life, and I've suffered some pretty trauma-inducing shit. I'm still not 100% there, but I have a high sneakin' suspicion that I have a condition called ankylosing spondylitis, which is an inflammatory arthritis condition that can cause some of your vertebrae to fuse. The fusion is called bamboo spine, it's really gross. While it's more diagnosed in amab folks, it's because it's undiagnosed in afab folks, and is something that begins in early adulthood. Anyways, long story short. I just, agree, that I wish people didn't think it'd never happen to them. If the pandemic taught us anything, it's that disability, whether chronic or temporary, mentally or physically. It can happen to anyone.
It literally happened to me several years ago. Although I wasn't ever fully ablebodied. But I woke up one day, went into work, and fell over and couldn't get back up. Ended up bedbound for months, in and out of hospital (sent home twice by the same er doctor who insisted i was just anxious, gotta love medical professionals being good at their jobs! /s) and I still can't walk properly. I'm barely allowed out of the house without someone else present because of the fall risk. And yeah, I never thought it'd happen to me. It's almost like getting struck by lightning or something. You know it happens to some people, but the chances are so tiny for any random person it just doesn't occur to you it's a real possibility until it happens. It'd be fantastic if more people could realise that they're one accident or illness away from chronic disability, and especially that it isn't their fault if it happens. Just some more compassion would be nice.
@@mxmissy In my experience, a lotta abled people also don't realize how DRAINING a bout of chronic pain can be, an exhaustion that lasts well into the next day. They'll be like, 'but you're not in pain now, so...???' Truly frustrating...
What I like about Mouthwashing is that the monster was never Curly, even if he did some shit - or failed to do some shit - which casts him in a flawed/complicit light. It's not that he deserved his disfigurement or disability, but it's an interesting dichotomy between the disfigured, disabled person not being the monster, but the self-justifying able bodied man who was just *plain evil* even before the events of the crash, who Curly himself protected, being the most monstrous character of all. Curly's disfigurement and disabling event was not his fault, but protecting Jimmy was, and all that Jimmy did after it all was enabled by his complicity.
Something I like about Curly as a disabled story? He was perfectly totally fine for his entire life UNTIL he was disabled. Lots of people like to imagine they'll be fully abled their whole lives, and...buddies? Fellas? We're not. We're not going to be able to do that. It's just not in the cards.
I'm down to my left eye and right arm. Lost the use of my legs, left arm, spine, and right eye over time. I used to climb mountains in order to take pictures of the wildflowers growing on cliffs. Now I use an electric wheelchair and can't go over a 1 inch bump in broken sidewalk.
Lends more and more weight behind the notion of calling able bodied and minded people "not yet disabled". Health/abilities are subject to constant dice rolls on uncountable variables. Some dice can be weighted by reasonably healthy choices and trying not to make avoidable mistakes. But there will always be ones outside one's control and knowledge. While some of those things can be boons and privileges others don't have modifying those chances... things WILL break down and de-compensate with age. Shit just happens. Longer one's on this rock, the more likely something's gotta give.
'That pain lets us know we are alive' As someone who suffers from chronic wide spread pain... I DON'T NEED TO BE REMINDED I AM ALIVE!! I ALREADY FUCKING KNOW!!! You talking about not wanting to be a bother is all too relatable. Last year I stopped being able to describe my pain. Yup 7 years after getting that damn pain I couldn't tell the difference anymore its just there. I'm on my 8th year of my diagnosis and it's hell on earth. Thank you for telling your story and your experience with chronic pain because the more able bodied people hear about it, the more it gets believed and understood. Well at least I hope that's the case.
Yep, the constant reminder isn't that we're alive isn't necessary. I've tried having conversations with doctors about pain meds: they keep the pain in the background enough so that I can get on with whatever counts for my life. Not having them reduces life to something small and mean, and my life is small enough as it is.
It works in fantasy stories, it's a good line in settings where your agency can be stripped from you. Be it through sci-fi technology or some sort of dark magic or even fiddling with alternate planes of existence, where you can be reduced to a walking drone with no thoughts of your own, no warmth of happiness or ennui of past memories, the pain is a reminder that the character is still going and still able to fight the good fight It breaks down in real life. The pain is not another obstacle on our way to the antagonist, real life pain IS the antagonist
We think about the phrase "you need the bad times to appreciate the good" a lot. Usually with the framing of how the people who say it are typically way too up their own privileged asses to know what true constant suffering is like. When a "bad time" for them is a mild inconvenience to us in comparison, because *_our_* "bad times" are Hell.
I actually had no idea about your chronic pain, somehow, but the fact you've maintained a consistent upload schedule and a WRESTLING CAREER is FUCKING METAL!!
When I was a teenager in high school, I was a t a bowling alley with classmate on like a field trip or something, there were some mentally disabled people in the lane next to us, and one of my classmates was annoyed that they were out in public where she had to see them. The idea that this is something a person can feel is completely disgusting. The fact that people can think so little of a disabled person that they want to be able to pretend these human being do not exist was jarring.
I’m a support worker, and I’ve witnessed people reacting with visible disgust (one man actually said “Jesus Christ” in a disgusted tone when we simply walked by). It’s shockingly common.
The issue is, they are living embodiment what could happen to us all. One bad stroke, one bad accident and you suddenly find yourself in the same shoes. I usually cry because of this realisation. Others get angry.
You gotta remember that many folks on this planet look upon other people as things that range from inconvenient to sickening. They consider the world to exist for them alone, to cater to their desires, and the fact that they have to share it is a flaw. It is horrible. It is grotesque. And these fine humanoids delight in telling others exactly how they feel. Which is kinda helpful. At least the rest of us know who to avoid.
im born disabled with an uncurable sickness and i understand not everyone will comprehend the situation,being judged will happen but no matter what the rule in life is to live for yourself not for others~its a show of confidence in yourself to be able to do that and yer gonna be happier for it
@@1IGG That's a really weird way to see things. They're not living embodiments of "what could happen" any more than all the bodies in graveyards are dead embodiments. They're just people, not walking cautionary tales.
I think I can see how it happened that nobody asked Curly questions in his disabled state: Anya was either too terrified of going against Jimmy's word or too nauseated to interact with Curly directly. Swansea probably didn't even want to go near the guy, too focused on his plan to save the intern kid, and Daisuke probably just kept his head down and followed orders. Maybe deep down they all just resented Curly for the alleged crime of intentionally crashing the ship and put aside their empathy in favor of letting him suffer as punishment. And Jimmy... well, I'm sure he was the driving force of their decision.
i see more people being ableist over the themes of this game than i do actually examining through the lens of disability so thank you for this - it was also the case for me that the immediate horror for me as another physically disabled person (muscle disorder that's resulted in spine disease, etc.) with this game was curly having pills forced down his throat, unable to fend for himself in his current state and having to rely on the "mercy" of an abusive individual... which is 80x more disturbing when you know that's a reality for far too many disabled people in the real world who are dependent on caregivers for their basic needs being fulfilled i can't imagine how extensive burn scar survivors, people with limb differences, etc. feel about this game
I think to see Curly’s situation post crash as justice misses a larger point: Curly, through enabling, and not properly dealing with his friends actions, he ends up receiving the fallout of Jimmy’s decisions. He failed as a captain but does not deserve what has happened to him and that’s the point of enabling, you will end up being worse off, not the perpetrator.
Aw man that whole bit about the dehumanization of disabled people really cut me to the core. I was raised with the knowledge that a disability isn't a choice. Nobody wakes up one day and says "I want to be less capable and face constant inconvenience and struggle for basic tasks!". I was told that we sacrifice for those who have trouble or are incapable because no matter how inconvenient providing aid for them might be for us, it's 24/7 year round for them and they suffer way worse constantly. It shouldn't and never has been a question of "do you help the disabled" because I never considered it a question. It's just... What we're supposed to do. It's the default expected behavior. You aren't a saint for helping those too hurt to help themselves, but you are a devil for withholding aid or treating the people most afflicted as burdens or unwanted. They didn't choose that, and if they had a choice it's not even a question they wouldn't want to be in the situation they're in. It's the least we can do to provide our more functional shoulders to ease *their* burdens. It's kind of shocking that anyone thinks otherwise. But considering how literally the entire world has been celebrating the righteous execution of a health insurance CEO, I can't be surprised. (The only sad part about that story is that the Claim Denier was only able to get the one, if you ask me).
As a disabled person who is constantly treated as a burden, dehumanised, and at the mercy of an abusive caretaker, this comment brought me to tears. Thank you for being so empathetic and kind. I wish there were more people like you out there.
Funny thing, I've heard of situations where it was a choice, it's just not a choice you can reverse. People have 'transabled' themselves by blinding themselves. I'm willing to bet others have taken the other routes thinking we have secretly privileged cushy lives when we're barely making enough to pay bills if we get the help at all. If I had the choice, after knowing nothing else, I'd like to pick Not please.
there's kind of this... weird space where caregivers get burnout and are often called monsters by the people who they're taking care of. and the reasons behind that are complicated: sometimes the system punishes people for trying to take the time and care for others by denying them work or resources that they need to survive. sometimes the accommodations people need haven't become something that the government or corporations feel pressured to make affordable, and a caregiver has to make financial choices to keep an entire household going in a way that nobody likes. sometimes the person under their care was abusive and can still be abusive but for various reasons they're pressured into a situation where they're required to give aid. When that happens tempers fray and hurtful words are said, time may have to be balanced between care and household survival, accommodations can only go so far, sickening feelings of guilt rest in the pit of one's stomach, and it's hard not to agree with the title of "monster" if the person being taken care of lashes out at them. And that's exactly the problem, one's not a saint for doing what should be something where the whole system pitches in, but by god one becomes a devil for being fallible and human. But that's not the twist of the knife. that little stab is that the people who can't afford good, professional caretakers are often chronically injured, ill, or on some axis of marginalization themselves. Even professional caregivers get paid depressingly little compared to other medical fields, while at the same time requiring practically the same certifications and training , all while facing extreme burnout and mental illness from a wide range of reasons, depending on the field they're in. where i live everybody in the apartment suffers from a disability, chronic illness, mental health issue, and like, none of us are neurotypical. Arguments are common, people will try to make accommodations for their needs that trample over other people's needs, resources are stretched thin, nobody can eat the same food, and three people are crammed into a space meant for two, tops. But we all know the core issue is 90% not each other, but that we're all playing with a bad hand of cards. If we could be able to live in a proper house we'd have some space, if we had space we could plan out our budget better and buy ahead. If the government paid us a fair stipend or even acknowledged that some of us were disabled, we could gain access to the accommodation devices and services we need. If the government made those services and devices affordable we'd have better quality of life with what money we had. If disability was not an all-or-nothing thing, but as varied as disability itself was, the system would be manageable and three people wouldn't need to cram themselves into an apartment trying to keep each other in a vaguely surviving condition, some of us would be able to live on their own, while others could choose to get live-in care or be a part of a community tailored to their needs. But the system isn't like that, and most likely won't ever be like that in our lifetimes, so the three of us remain, surviving, continuing on, making monsters of each other.
Generally what I've encountered is people thinking it's not that bad and I'm just lazy. Not that I choose to be in pain constantly and fighting my body at nearly every turn to just get it to do basic things, that that's just not the truth. I wish. And despite being also told not being active doesn't help, universe help you if you can go on a short walk or along with errands at any point/points in your situation but can't really do anything productive. Because apparently that's the absolute proof you could and just don't.
Hey steph, i think I'm gonna skip mouthwashing. I have cerebral palsy and struggle with everything you mentioned in this video. Curly is one of my worst fears. I also deal with people seeing me as an inspiration when I'm out and about running errands. so thanks Steph for continuing to scream that disabled people are people full stop.
As a british citizen that wasnt diagnosed with autism till i was 27 and was forced to find work while suffering a prolonged period on mutism caused by autistic burnout from prioor jobs that final section about needing to both appear disabled enough while not causeing trouble for others hit hard. On 2 separated occasions i burnt out from work and was unable to speak for months on end, i was forced onto job seekers allowance after it was determind that i was not diabled enogh for disability allowance. I was told repatededly i had to widen my seqarch area for jobs despite being anable to drive and having significant difficultly using public transport due to being an able to speak. I was told that phone interviews and interpreters could be aranged for me. Yet not one person said "how is this person that can barly even wisper supposed to perform any sort of job?" Week after wek i was forced to go into the JSA offices and conform the fact that i still could not speak and that i was still jumping through the hoops they demanded of me. These days i work in food service a job I very much enjoy at times as such the themes of corparate greed and employee surpression are what jump out to me when experiancing Mouthwashing. The presure to perform the limits on breaks ect even so the silent horror of curly being unable to express his own desires while being forced to endure the whims of the crew still reminds me of those times.
Im 38 and was diagnosed with autism a couple months ago. Its crazy how much all of a sudden everything just clicks and makes sense in terms of why work is so hard. I'm a nurse and have burned through so many jobs because the people I work with find me weird and, because they cant fire you for being weird, decide its 'unprofessionalism' Its the social side of the workplace I just can't deal with. I'm fine with patients, frankly I'm brilliant at what I do, but as soon as I have to make small talk with colleagues I fall to pieces. JSA is fuckin horrendous. Its so deliberately obtuse to try and stop scammers that ironically the only people who would find the system remotely accessible are professional scammers.
@@fromthedumpstertothegrave3689 I cant even being to count the number of times co-workers have complained about my "tone" when i was simply stressed or distracted. I love my work i love feeding people and seeming them enjoy their food but, there are some aspects that are just infuriating. Especially the double standard of go take and break if you are feeling stressed out by a customer but never walk away from a customer cause thats rude. Also the number of people i saw that were clearly just loking to cash a cheque at the JSA was ridiculous while i was hit with a warning for failing to show up once when i was sick with food poisoning.
41 here and diagnosed this year and not far off the same. I had 3 massive burnouts. Post the diagnosis has put a lot of things into place but still can be a struggle at times work and colleague wise and public transport (ironically work in that train industry/IT) Anyway wish you both the best and it was good to read your experiences. Thank you for sharing.
@@cavetendobiggles1841 burnout as a prelude to getting a diagnosis later in life seems to be a pretty common thing. Its that odd thing of being just normal enough to muddle through for 30 or 40 years before something finally snaps. Theres a book untypical by Pete Wharmby a guy who was a teacher and got diagnosed in his 30's, I'd highly recommend it as reading for anyone you know who you want to understand the autistic experience. Though if I'm honest personally I found the tone a little entitled. By entitled I mean this is a guy who had no idea about autism or any idea he was autistic till he was in his 30's and the book has an undercurrent of him being indignant that more people don't understand autism, he makes a lot of valid points but it seems somewhat pot calling the kettle black, its still a good account of the kinda challenges people face though.
I got my ASD diagnosis at age 31. But there were talents I found I could do because of the analaytical, logical and pattern-based nature of my mind. When Visual Pinball came into being at the start of the 2000s, one of those was design. I had a knack for plotting out my own pinball games and bringing them into being, and by studying the work and approach of past designers, I could learn everything about geometry, and why certain elements stuck, what could be counted on to work and what couldn't, and what the defining balance between ambition and practicality could be at that time. All I needed to move forward was the chance to work on creating a real machine. Then Andrew Heighway found me, and together we formed a friendship, then a potential working partnership, then after a few years, we were ready to come down to Wales to start up his company, with myself as his designer. ...And that's when his deficiancies as a manager, skimping on his homework and refusal to take any responsibility for any mistakes came to the forefront. It was when he started using my ASD as a weapon against me to get what he wanted. He never made my 'employment' official despite bring me down there himself. He had never intended to. He would threaten me with everyone else's jobs and denigrate my condition ("you were rotting away in Northern Ireland when I found you") to keep me under his control whenever I tried to bring anything up, such as having a contract or any form of security. (I have recordings I took secretly of the meetings. You don't want to hear them.) We got two machines out where I was the 'lead designer', including the highly-regarded Alien, and made progress on the third (Queen) which would eventually be finished and released later after we closed. But the decline lasted for five years, with myself never receiving a penny and with no way to disengage. But everybody there knew my position. And Andrew resented that they did. Five years before his chief investors finally forced him out and tried to make a go of what he left behind, but there was too much baggage and too many hurdles to climb. So they took the company assets, liquidated the company with debts of 2.2 milion dollars. To this day there is still work of mine being used for manufacturing which, by any form of logic, by rights never actually belonged to the company before it changed hands. I could ask for some form of renumeration (lord knows the the HMRC got involved, and even got so far as proposing a figure). But I never have. I'm terrified to after years of financial and psychological abuse. And since my self-esteem had been profoundly compromised beforehand, you can only imagine how much I despise myself for my own 'weakness' and 'uselessness' now, at age 55.
I'm autistic, I have ADHD, I have depression, I have fibromyalgia (chronic pain condition) and several other disabilities that make my day to day life a nightmare sometimes, so when I say the speech you gave at the end of the video moved me to tears, I mean it. Thank you for being such an outspoken and proud advocate for the disabled and for showing that we aren't helpless, that we are human beings and deserve respect. You represent everything good about professional wrestling, and you do that in the face of crippling pain, and you represent your fellow neurodivergent and physically disabled individuals with strength and courage that few have. Thank GOD for Commander James Stephane Sterling.
I have fibromyalgia and Audhd to and depression. Very well put. It truly can be a nightmare. Digital hug I wish you and myself luck. Just remember, even when you feel alone there are others that do understand and care, we're just quiet.
Another aspect of the horror is the flip side of the coin you are describing. My mother ended up being a caregiver for her own parents, who ended up living quite a long time. My Grandfather made it past 100. I would talk to her and I could sense the resentment she had for having to take care of them, but also the guilt for feeling that resentment. Thing is, she was only in the house she was in and the situation she was in to take care of them. She wanted to move to a smaller place, to a warmer climate, to enjoy her retirement years, but it was all put on hold to wait until her own parents died. She could not bear the idea of leaving them in anyone else's care, but it also left her feeling trapped in a similar way. One cannot help but feel resentful towards the people who are the source of such, but many will feel the awful guilt of having those feelings. No one wants to be that terrible person, and they know the person going through the pain has it worse, but feelings cannot be controlled and you are in a position where you keep asking yourself, when have you done enough? When is it okay to consider yourself, even at their detriment? Someone you care about being in pain poisons your own ability to be happy. As empathetic creatures, we cannot help but feel like that. And those feelings are often bottled because letting the person in pain hear it will only make it worse for them, and they don't deserve that. Caregivers should always make sure they have their own therapist, because they are going through stuff too. And if you are worried that your own pain is causing a good caregiver trouble, remember this: Even if they are feeling pain and inconvenience and suffering, it is because they value you. They believe you are worth it.
I am about to turn 50 in a couple days, and I have never lived anywhere other than with my parents. Originally that was because my father and maternal grandmother passed in my senior year in high school and my mother going from a 4-person house to a 1-person when she'd never lived alone would have driven her mad. Then it got to the point where I was basically the manual labor while she did the shopping and cooking and the bill-paying. Little by little those jobs became mine. She left home less and less, only for family holidays and doctor's visits. She started having one problem after another, losing weight, getting weaker. She was getting old. But I was the only one she could rely on. So it was all me. And that meant that I was tethered to a retired old woman who was paranoid about anything happening to me, but who also didn't want anyone coming in the house because I've always been messy (probable ADHD) and as she got older she both got messy and held on to far too much stuff. If I went away to work a show, I would have her tell me on the phone the evening that I left "I wish you were home already." And she would say things like she was counting the hours until I came home. If I went out with friends, she would call asking when I was coming home. If I wasn't home at that time, she'd start calling repeatedly. If I went out to anything, her first question would be "What time are you coming home?" If I told her while I was out that plans had changed and had an updated later ETA for being home, she'd express sadness and make me feel bad for staying out. This was something that lasted YEARS. Not 1 or 2... more like FIFTEEN or so. So my social life was... not very prominent. Which is amusing considering that people talk about how I'm so extroverted and whatnot. But how could I have a social life when I kept having to answer phone calls about when I'd be home, who was there, etc? (Oh, she'd also ask for people's phone numbers so she could call them if I didn't answer) And love life? No chance of that, either. Hell, I haven't even been able to have a job for years because I needed to be home to take care of her. I know my social and emotional growth have been severely stunted because of it all, and I know I had a number of arguments with her about it because she would guilt-trip me tremendously and not even acknowledge it with lines like "You're all I have in the world" and even saying a few times if something happened to me, she'd end herself. She did a number on me bit by bit over the years. There's a part of me that is not well, and may not be well for quite some time. Even so... she was Mom. She never meant me any harm. She was terrified of being alone. She never wanted to see her son hurt. So she did everything she could to make sure I never could screw up, even if it drove me crazy. She wanted to know I was alright. And even with all the stress she caused me, I loved her. There was never any malice in her. She always tried to do what was best for me. And eventually, the scales flipped. It was all on me to take care of her. I had to help her more and more and more. And then at the very end, she was at home for hospice care, unable to speak or move or eat or drink. But I told her everything that was in me. I let her know the struggles, I let her know I loved her, I let her know that I'd be okay. And when the time came, it was just.... peace. I haven't quite figured out my life yet. I have a great support structure, though. And I'll be leaning on them as the months go on. I'm actually picking up the certificates from the court tomorrow about the dispersal of her estate. The process of things switching over to all me has been happening slowly but surely. I'm... I'll be alright. But even so, it's obvious there's parts of me that I know aren't alright, parts that haven't been alright for years. And yeah, therapy would probably be great, if I could afford it, which I can't right now. But you know what? I don't think I'd do a single damn thing different. She did a lot for me, I did a lot for her, and now it's time for me to do things for me. I started this off as both commiseration and agreement with you, understanding what your mom went through, and agreeing on the toll it can take, and it just kind of morphed into... something. I'm not sure what. But between this video and this comment, maybe it was something I needed.
There is a phenomenon known as caregiver fatigue, in which the caregiver is essentially forced to dehumanizes themselves in order to care for someone who cannot do it for themselves. I was in that boat for over 20 years, caring for my ill mother. Youngest of 8 kids. None of the older 7 had the time, had the patience, not one of them ever once asked, in 20 years, if I was ever okay. It was just, "Oh, she's got this, I can go live my life." I took care of my mother because I loved her, and she suffered immensely, in a way that no one ever should have to. But the abuse she put me through--actual abuse, in the most literal definition of the word--left a mark on me that will never go away, and made me resent her deeply. At what point are we allowed to be 'selfish' and care for ourselves first, or at all? When does caring for someone stop becoming that, and start becoming enabling an abuser? There are many, many shades of gray in these sorts of scenarios, and things get very complicated very quickly. By the by, I'm also disabled according to US law, but having learned even a fraction of what the process would take to prove that to the government has convinced me that I'm just going to go to my grave suffering in silence, because the powers that be will very much assume that I am not 'disabled enough'. My biggest fear is not being believed, and I'm not about to parade myself in front of a bunch of people whose entire job it is to assess how much of a liar I am. No thanks.
Your insight is truly a gift to read. That whole part about pain poisoning your happiness really resonates because it really is a horrible cycle to find oneself in.
"When is it okay to consider yourself, even at their detriment?" is such a hard thing to navigate. It gets overwhelming, even worse knowing you can't afford to fall apart because someone needs your care. And resentment grows on both sides, too. It's only normal in the face of the helplessness and hopelessness illness can bring but it does get in the way of already hard everyday tasks. In the end, I think it's important to acknowledge what is being resented is the illness itself.
I've read that, in America, it would be cheaper to accept every disabled support request, than it would to go through all the jumps and hoops to make sure it's required. Wouldn't be surprised if the same could be said here.
It would be cheaper in every country. It's because bureaucracy and checking info costs additional money on top of the money you spend on the request/benefits. That's why some people advocate for universal basic income - because it would literally be cheaper to give everyone in a given country a guaranteed income they could live off of, instead of spending money on bureaucracy to make sure it only goes to the people who "deserve" it.
It wouldn't surprise me, systems are bloody expensive. Its why paracetamol costs 50p if you go and buy it but a prescription costs the taxpayer about £30.
The thing about people thinking you're pulling one over on them... Godsdammit, that happens a lot (especially when your disability is invisible). I always feel a hurdle when having to bring up accommodations based on disability. When you have to explain to people that yes, being tired very much affects your functioning even if they do not see the difference. They cannot see how much energy 'that simple task' takes out of you and how that hinders your capacity to do that other 'simple task' you had planned. Or they take your skill at 'hiding' your disability as evidence that it isn't that bad really, they didn't even notice. Great vid, Steph, Stay strong, everyone.
I had a brief work placement with a charity for people with aquired brain injuries. A lot of the people there said the hardest thing about ABI's is that they dont 'look' disabled so people think they're just being difficult. I've got autism and honestly I find the same thing. I just don't understand indirect communication/ hinting/ passive aggressiveness. If someone says "Do you think its cold?" then looks at an open window I'll just go "nah, I'm alright" and then *I'm* the asshole. If somone just says "I'm cold, can you close the window" I'll just be like "Sure, no worries" It makes basic stuff an absolute minefield.
@@fromthedumpstertothegrave3689 Absolutely. Neurodivergence, brain injuries, chronic fatigue. I'm not saying those with invisible disabilities have it worse, but we do deal with different issues.
NT people: "Oh, you have struggles due to neurodivergence? Weirdo. I'm going to avoid you." Also NT people: "Oh, you're trying to fit in by pretending you don't have struggles due to neurodivergence? Then I guess you don't need any support or consideration whatsoever!" All too many people subscribe to the worldview of, "If I can't see it, it doesn't exist".
In my darkest moments, I've thought about what if I severely physically harmed myself (blinded, lost a limb, paralyzed, something) so that finally the world around me would understand. I've got severe mental health issues, and the main visible aspect is that I sleep a lot, which has eventually led to multiple romantic partners over the years deciding that I'm a "burden" and "lazy" and that if I would "just be awake at normal times things would be better". But I just can't. I also know that if I had a very physical problem, I could get disability much more easily. Right now I dont even know if it's worth the fight and struggle. I can already see a judge saying "PTSD, but you were never in the military? I don't believe you, how dare you mock our troops. You just need to toughen up"
@ mental health is tough because people don’t really get how difficult it can be unless you are visibly, what is known clinically as, proper batshit mental.
A line like that is a not-so-subtle way of telling you "this character? They're a monster." Because what else would make someone a monster? Is a person not a monster just because they _only_ committed only _one or two_ atrocities, because it has to be a full-on _way of life_ before a person qualifies for that moniker? Definitely something only a monster would say.
I mean, it makes sense in context as Anya's mantra: she's trapped on a ship with her abuser, taking care of a man who ignored her problems and who she believes tried to kill the entire crew by crashing the ship. She has to believe that they aren't completely awful people because otherwise it would be nearly impossible for her personally to cope with the position she's in. I don't think the game is telling us to buy into that statement ourselves so much as illustrating something about her.
@@olivia7782 Yeah, this is what GETS to me: people forget the context of who says what and WHY when they repeat the sentences. Jimmy repeating Anya's line is him stealing YET ANOTHER thing from her and twisting it to make himself out to be a hero. People need to pick up on that. They need to also pick up on how hypocritical Curly is about "safety"-- he keeps leaving things where they're "unsafe", and then flips out when ANYA does it: I'm using my paraphrased notes on this game but "the kitchen knife, per Pony Express regulations, should be kept locked away in a code scanner-only area/box.". You find that one out when you're Curly, check the knife's inventory description and it says he SHOULD have it locked away, but he isn't. The axe is also supposed to be kept locked, but he gives it to Swansea to keep on himself. He's fine with things being "unsafe" as long as it benefits him. For Anya, the line feels like learned helplessness-- like what girls are taught to do to "socialize properly"-- to compromise, to be patient, to endure, to hope for the better, to stay passive... There's a shitton of loaded social expectations in THAT being her mantra-- that she's supposed to believe she shouldn't judge someone for what they've done to her, that she's supposed to be forgiving. That someone who'd crash the ship to get rid of her and someone who'd SA her aren't monsters. It becomes a coping method, but it comes from SOMEWHERE and the overarching character traits are that EVERYONE has some heavy baggage they're saddled with before they even start the trip, and that they don't see past the others' masks because they're too busy drowning under their own.
God this video hurts for all the right reasons. As someone on the autism spectrum I can appear "normal", avoid being an inconvenience for people. At least, until my sensory issues with loud noises causes me to feel anxiety and physical pain. Then I'm suddenly being too sensitive, too weak. I've had more than one member of my family tell me that I just need to get over my sensitivity. Hell, there have been times where I'm close to having an emotional meltdown in a very noisy restaurant but can't leave because someone wants dessert. At those times I truly feel alone. That's why I'm glad for videos like these that scream out to the world that how it treats disabled people is not okay. Thank god for Sterling.
I live in Texas. Had a herniated disk, injured at my last job, and had to apply for government benefits. (I mean I also have over-active adrenaline, by-product of social anxiety and autism, that has me ridiculously exhausted for days when it thins out, but nobody gives a shit about that.) Now I had a damn good non-profit lawyer, and it took me two years to even be heard on this, and when I finally was, the judge, who was forced to award the benefits due to an unrelated issue (and a person who was supposed to find a 40s or 50s job I could do to deny me benefits on NOT doing her job) berated me for I think 15 minutes straight until I was in tears. He did absolutely everything in his power to convince ME that I was gaming the system, that I didn't deserve it, that I needed to just toughen up a little like he had to when he was younger. I feel like the whole disability benefits system is just DESIGNED to break you and encourage others to punish you for it. Now that I'm on it, I found a way that I could maybe break free of it, and I'm going to try, but oddly the system also seems to be designed to make it harder to do THAT. You don't want me to have the benefits, you've got whole departments dedicated to finding reasons to kick me off, and you also don't want me to be able to get off of them and go back to work? MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MIND!
@@mystbunnygaming1449 it really feels like simple bullying at this point. It's irrational on purpose then they gas light you into thinking you're the weird one. I hate it so much.
If the system allowed you to go back into a sufficiently productive live by your own will, it would need to admit to themselves that you weren't a leech. And that they were terrible people for stopping you from getting help.
A lot of the discussion is about how the helplessness of Curly post-crash acts as an ironic parallel to his passivity pre-crash; because he sat back and watched, it led to a situation where he was unable to do much /besides/ sit back and watch. People are indelicate and often dont really know how to discuss that without framing it or phrasing it like some kind of comeuppance, without really thinking critically about the implications of what theyre saying. There ARE also people who whole-heartedly think he "deserves" it, but people who are callous enough to feel and say that with their entire chest are (thankfully) more of a minority. The community at large does have a pretty visible problem with casual ablism though, but its more in the dehumanization angle than the 'disability as punishment' one.
It's part of the 'caused by karma' mentionned in the vid, so many people LOVE to judge the ill-fortunate, rather seeing them as the 'monster' that deserved it, the truth/empathy be damned.
The horror of Curly's situation is really... underplayed (?) by the fandom, like, there is pity, and of course almost everyone agrees that no one deserves his fate (or worst of all, like you said, the ones who think that his pain is some sort of justified karma). But thank you for talking about the situation from *his* perspective. When I first watched the game, the ending left me absolutely horrified, Jimmy put him in the cryopod? So he would either be forced to live, endure his torment, maybe survive, or much more likely, wake up in twenty years and die of asphyxiation, starvation, or dehydration, knowing his friends' bodies are rotting on the floor. I've never seen anyone else horrified by Curly being put into the pod, they take it as a good thing. But for me it is just Jimmy prolonging his torment. I guess, I think the fact that Mouthwashing has created this much discourse is just a proof of how stellar the writing is. We really can't stop talking about it.
Being honest, Jimmy never waited at ALL to see if the cryopod actually worked. He shot himself to preserve the idea of himself being the hero who "saved" Curly but if the pod malfunctioned, then Curly is pretty dead.
Everything jimmy does during the events of the game are done with the aim of convincing himself that he’s a hero. I think he only puts curly in the pod to create a “happy ending” to his story before he kills himself.
@@cuv9315 The first thing I thought when I saw Curly in the pod... No, it was a lot of things at once. Curly is stuck there. He can't do a goddam thing. Jimmy, the man who decided to be the most irredeemable person to exist, took a cowards way out after ruining everyone's lives. "I'm doing it! I'm doing one last good thing!" Jimmy says, condemning Curly to an awful fucking fate. Sure. The pod might work. But what then. He wakes up, trapped in it? Unable to escape?Unable to Move? Exist in agony until he dies from his injuries? In the end, Jimmy treats the last person alive he has to abuse as a way to get his own... closure, I guess, before he ends his life. Leaving Curley to suffer ever more in that pod. I felt awful for curly when I saw that. And my utter hatred for Jimmy grew even more. Curly might have fucked up, but he didn't deserve that. No one does.
yeah! out of everything in the game, that ending is what's stuck with me the most since watching someone stream it. he just used curly's suffering to feel good about himself one last time... and now curly's well and truly alone, stuck out in space with no real hope of ever being "rescued" in a giant metal tomb filled with the corpses of his friends. does that time just... stop for him? is he granted any sort of peace in cryosleep, or will even his dreams turn into nightmares of all the horrible things he's endured and regrets he now has? it's all just so awful to think about, but i appreciate that awfulness, because it speaks to the strength of the narrative and how emotionally affected by it i still am, lol.
I've always thought that the true horrific irony at the end is how Jimmy says "I'm taking responsibility" while putting him in the cryopod, because he is literally doing the exact opposite. If Curly was 1. actually rescued within the 20 years the cryopod works, 2. survives being removed from the cryopod and presumably given actual proper medical care, and 3. recovers to the point where he is capable of communicating; Jimmy has basically left *him* to take responsibility for everything Jimmy did. He is the sole survivor, therefore leaving the burden of explaining everything that happened to him. Everyone is busy talking about the horror of "what if he's awake in the cryopod" or "he probably won't even be rescued/he will die shortly after rescue in that condition," but I think the most tragic outcome is if everything works out how Jimmy wants and Curly is genuinely the only survivor. How would you begin to explain what happened? What would it be like having to explain that your inaction lead to the drawn out deaths of 4 people? Obviously there's having to deal with the trauma of all that, and the fact that an injury like that would definitely leave him permanently disabled to some degree regardless of recovery which would change his life permanently, but imagine having to deal with that while also having to endure things like press coverage, interogation for disaster reports, potential legal consequences (would Pony Express be held criminally responsible for this? Would HE be held criminally responsible?? Would he have to serve as a witness in a lawsuit???), etc. Not to mention that Swansea apparently had kids, and Daisuke was basically a kid himself and shared that he worries his mom would blame herself. Do you think he would have to explain everything that happened to them? Was he even aware of everything that happened, or would he remember it at all? Would it be better or worse to have to explain that he didn't remember or see what happened, leaving questions unanswered for their families. Presumably if he was rescued then the entire ship would have been recovered, and considering they were running low on oxygen it's likely that the bodies would have not decomposed very much. There would be autopsies, causes of death revealed, meaning they would probably know that Daisuke died from an ax wound, that Swansea was shot, that Anya overdosed, that Jimmy shot himself, and of course that they were all so starved for resources that they were literally drinking mouthwash; would he be able to explain what led to these horrible deaths, such as who dealt the final blow to Daisuke and why, or who shot Swansea? And I think the biggest and most important question would be whether he would explain everything that Jimmy did. Would he shoulder the blame himself, not share everything that led up to the crash and make up a story to explain it all? Or would he let everyone know what a monster Jimmy was, thus revealing how he enabled that monster even if he didn't intend to? No matter what he could explain, he does not come out as the hero in the end; either he's the villain who caused the crash, or he stood by and let it happen despite being the captain. Trauma victims often don't remember everything that happened before or after they were injured, or their memories become distorted and fragmented, so maybe he would genuinely begin to believe he was the one who did it and he would have no idea why. For that matter, what if he can't remember any of it? Would he look at the evidence left behind and come to a different conclusion than what actually happened? What would that conclusion be? Do you think he would realize Jimmy's involvement or would he genuinely assume he was solely responsible somehow, since the evidence seems to point to it (you need the captains key to redirect the ship)? Sorry for rambling, I guess my point is that the ending of Mouthwashing felt like a perfect conclusion to me because it's simultaneously really open ended and also none of the outcomes are anything short of horrifying, even the "good" ones. The "taking responsibility" line was perfect bitter irony, because even in the end, Jimmy is still leaving Curly to clean up his mess.
Mouthwashing felt like a journey into the horror of reality. Of things people deal with every day and every hour and every minute. It has the backdrop of a futuristic science fiction, but everything in it could happen. Probably has already happened. Even together. True, the more mini-game type areas can be frustrating, but the mechanics of them do help tell the story. One section involving escaping something Jimmy is responsible for, and if you just run forward and don't look at it, it doesn't bother you. But that is Jimmy avoiding responsibility. When that clicked for me... I don't know. The whole game was the most terrifying thing I've played since SOMA. I wonder, then, if the phrase "I hope this hurts" is there to indicate that they hope this game hurts you. Because if it doesn't, something might be not okay with you. Humanity can be awful, but playing this and feeling the horror, the fear, and the pure terror of a situation you can't escape is a good reminder that you yourself are human. And what you thought was okay, really might not be.
@@Dalton_Boardman2000 Same, and I think for the early fans (before the fujoshis and tiktok got in) it was the same too. I saw so much good, reflective shit come out of that period up to just before the second Q&A, before it really blew up, about how people realized that this is banality of evil the game: how banal jerks like Jimmy are, how banal enablers like Curly are, how banal corrupt (Dragonbreath is a company that also provides Pony Express with the nutrition pouches and the automixer, and they're hauling its products around in space, tell me that doesn't stink) corporate employers like Pony Express are, how banal the entire NARRATIVE is-- you have one path, you can't ever change anything because the only points where this story could have changed are all out of your reach and the characters you're stuck with are committed to their ways and won't change in time, even if you can see the trainwreck and want to stop it-- the banality of powerlessness that the narrative inflicts on you. The whole game is just this tiny little microcosm of all the shitty real things that happen all over the world; the only sci-fi thing is that it's set in space and the AI is competent enough to drive something without accidents.
18:44 maybe i misremembering but I could’ve sworn Anya is the one character who vocalizes that she feels uncomfortable keeping curly alive and in pain (also debatably she doesn’t like forcing him to take the pills because it reminds her of how jimmy was implied to have forced knock out drinks on her to assault her and the sound design when curly is forced pills are very much a choice that evoked assault)
Yeah, it sounded like you were forcing him to swallow the pills, either because he refuses to take them or because he literally *can't* due to injuries to his throat.
Anya does vocalize she's uncomfortable prolonging his suffering. It's also implied she's doing it because Jimmy wants Curly alive as "emergency food", to punish him ("I hope this hurts"), and because he's a buffer to protect Jimmy's ego (constantly blaming him for the crash in the first place, using his "good judgment" to absolve himself of responsibility).
Yeah, I believe Anya is outwardly the most sympathetic of his plight from what little we see of Jimmy's perspective. Ironically she's also the one least able to stand up for Curly due to her being terrified of Jimmy (rightfully so). Also ironically, I have to wonder if the framing from Jimmy's perspective of the fact we only ever see Anya (not the rest of the crew) speak sympathetically of Curly means that, to him, her care and concern is seen as weak and one of the many reasons he doesn't respect her. He respects the other two to an extent, so never acknowledges their empathy or concern.
I was the one who had to take care of my mom when she was on her deathbed, thanks to fucking brain cancer. the cries for morphine, and other painkillers... It took months to get those out of my head. I was grieving for her before she even passed away. she was luckily on palative care, meaning not to extend her life as much as possible, but just to ease the pain. It got to the point that a few of my neighbors pitched in to give her care, because I was getting to the point that I couldn't due to running myself ragged. Sometimes, the most humane thing you can do is let someone go. ._. not to prolong their suffering. I can't really look at curly, He reminds me so much of my mom on the hospital bed at home. Granted, she wasn't bandaged up like him... but the situation is just... I'm sorry.
I was the sole caregiver for my mother at the end of her life a few months ago when she came back home for hospice. I watched as she wasted away, unconscious, unable to eat or drink or move or open her eyes. I'd been used to taking care of her for the last few years as she got out of the house less and less, but now I was just sitting around waiting for the end. Weirdly enough, it ended up being a comfort. I got to tell her all the things I wanted to say. I know she could hear me. I can't prove it, but I know. I confided to her, I complained to her, I yelled at her, I cried to her, and I let her know I loved her and that I'll be alright. I was able to let her go in the end. I'm sorry for your struggles and your pain. I can't understand to the same extent, but I can understand in a way. I don't know if there's anything I could say to make it better, but just know there's at least one person out there who can commiserate with you.
Perfectly encapsulated with Curly being the poster child of this game, giving "creepy" vibes, when in reality he is the most vulnerable person in the game and the one who suffers the most.
I kinda like the way it plays with the trope of the "main monster" generally being the face of an indie horror game, so going into it without context you're like "I bet this is the scary guy that chases you" and are then completely blind sided when it becomes immediately obvious early on that that is Not The Case Here. It primes you to fear this character and then it's like "oh maybe the monster is us this time actually." Everything I saw second hand before watching a playthrough led me to expect an entirely different kind of game, which I think kind of improved the experience for me, having that "oh this isn't a jumpscare horror game, this is one of those horror games that make you feel terrible about being part of the human race isn't it" moment.
As disabled person I must admit I pretty abelist myself. The fact that I need financial aid fills me with self loathing which I have projected on to other disabled people. "oh so you think you deserve that help do you, no you should just be eternally grateful for that help, don't you recognize how much of a burden you are to others". These are thoughts that I'm burdened with and noone deserves that bs and it just furthers my own self loathing that I feel that way.
Hello, friend. I know it's hard to live through what society tells you is abject failure. But it's not your fault. If you could just magically do better, you would have done that long ago, right? Perhaps it's not possible in your circumstances, but therapy might help you deal with your self-loathing. If you can't get a therapist, please still try to be kind and compassionate with yourself and with others. Living is hard and painful, there's no reason to make it even harder.
@@BeremorI feel similarly, but I only apply the loathing to myself. The still-incomplete process of obtaining benefits really just makes me think "There are people FAR worse off than me, and THEY have to put up with this bullshit and over a year of waiting?" And even then, I have family to fall back on. What about people who don't? ~$950 a month is nothing. Sorry, I just saw an opportunity to rant about how the government wants disabled people to toil in agony or die.
This is something that comes up so much, it is not unique. Like people with internalised sexism or homophobia, we have all been raised with a certain set of expectations to fit into a certain role. Our private identities do not match up with this, but we still carry the prejudice and rules, and we often unthinkingly serve as a reinforcer of the rules that don't apply to us. One of the things used to try and counter lots of isms is representation, and this is usually achieved by taking a very attractive representative and showing them to have material success and glamour. A huge amount of our idealised selves comes from advertising really, and it's fascinating to me that disability representation kind of exposes a weird destructive trait in everything else, because we just can't quite slot disabled people into it. But it does mean we have to try harder and to think harder about how we deal with it on a personal level, and that isn't much fun. It really sounds like you're working on it though. Still, your self loathing was given to you, it's not your fault, and one day you'll have read enough and experienced enough to let it go.
I don't think the game is claiming Curly deserves his disability, but I do think he is disabled and robbed of agency as a sort of analogy for his earlier choices. It's a bit uncomfortable.
My mother actually mentioned before back when predjudice against the disabled was MUCH worse that her sister who worked as a nurse pretty much hated the idea of letting these people "roam" for any amount of time and this wasn't just for physical disabilities but mental ones as well such as autism and my mother was disgusted by the attitude since her son (my brother) was on the autistic spectrum, but of course "Oh you're son is different of course", yeah she wasn't buying that bullshit. I know this wasn't the exact focus on the video, but the topic of any people being born with something they didn't ask to be born with and then treated as though they were sub-human is still something we need to get better at, even if we are better than however they were like 20-30 years ago.
I'm a nurse and I'm constantly flabbergasted by the attitudes of some in my profession. Its actually astounding how narrow minded and lacking in empathy a lot of nurses are.
@@fromthedumpstertothegrave3689 I think the sad truth is, the medical profession can attract a lot of the Jimmy's of the world who want that self congratulatory matyr status. "How can I be a bad person when I spend my life caring for people?" It gives them a power over people
Disabled rights are all our rights. Disability is one minority demographic that anyone can find themselves part of at any time, and very likely will eventually join eventually if they live long enough. Anyone can suffer a debilitating illness or injury. Anyone. And the older we get, the more likely we are to accrue some kind of medical issue that effects our ability to do things most people take for granted. Attacking the rights of disabled people is not just cruel, it is an act of self-harm. Also, Steph, if you see this, unlike ESA or UC, PIP isn't means tested, and you can apply for it regardless of your income. It's intended to compensate disabled people for additional expenses related to their mobility or personal care and place them on a more even financial footing than non-disabled people, so the only official criterion is your level of impairment. You can use it to pay for additional travel expenses, mobility aids, etc, or to help with the costs of a wheelchair or an adapted vehicle via the Motability scheme. The assessment process is obviously very unfair, cruel and stressful, though (this being Britain, after all).
I am disabled. When disabled, people accused me of wanting a free ride. I have dealt with worsening conditions and constantly questioned. My friend played this on stream for me on release. It hit on so many levels.
that line turned my stomach in a way that i couldn't fully articulate before this video. mouthwashing is a horrific game, but you're right: i think folks tend to focus more on other aspects of the story, which in turn further highlights how disabled people are overlooked and dehumanized by...everyone, really. (i also genuinely assumed that the crew was keeping curly alive to face trial on earth in the event of their rescue, but i can see how people figured jimmy at least was on board with cannibalism.)
Thank you so much for this essay! This is brilliant. I have some thoughts but here are my bonafides (lol): Fellow back-pain sufferer here (fractured thoracic vertebra non-union, herniated cervical disc, buncha surgically repaired joints -- that's EDS, baby, woo!) with that depression/ADHD wombo combo. Relevant to this comment's contents, I'm a survivor of SA, too. For me, Curly's helplessness - and the fact that he's unable to speak - are direct parallels with the situation he put Anya into, not as karmic retribution for that choice, but as a tragic consequence of his own inaction. Their conversation about the dead pixel lays it out: Anya is always aware that it's present but Curly doesn't see it and replies that he's 'used to looking at the bigger picture,' and the dead pixel doesn't 'ruin the illusion' of things being peaceful/quiet (in the way that Jimmy later is primarily concerned about keeping Curly alive, but quiet). She mentions their arrival time being in approximately eight months -- around the time she'll be giving birth to the child produced by the assault. And Curly has nothing to say...just ellipses. He refused to make Jimmy accountable. He could've put Jimmy in a cryopod until they arrived, but Jimmy is his friend going way back. Anya was so terrified of Jimmy that she took the pistol and hid it so that Jimmy wouldn't have it, and instead of resolving the issue with Jimmy, Curly confronts *Anya* about the pistol, instead. Anya is the burden...not Jimmy. And because of that...Jimmy ends up getting the gun, in the end, and I think that's why Curly laughs. He can see how the dominoes fell. It's not a good laugh. None of this justifies the inflicted horror of Curly's existence after the crash, any more than Anya's suffering was justified. But his choice to remain silent on the subject of her assault even after he was made aware of it, and his refusal to take action against Jimmy, is reflected in his horrifying state: no limbs to act with, no lips to speak with, and no eyelids that he can close. Anya makes it very clear that she's uncomfortable with his situation, and so sick to her stomach about forcing it on him that she can't bear to give him the pills at all, but at that point, Jimmy is in full control. She's left in a terrorized position of being trapped with her abuser, a situation in which Curly joins her. He empowered the person who chooses what happens to him to make that choice, as he made it for Anya. He was given a choice, and the one he made while he was able to choose became one he no longer had the capacity to undo when his ability was stripped away. Anya never had a choice at all. I don't want that to sound like I think Anya's suffering is greater or more important or noble than Curly's, because it isn't. Suffering is suffering. But as a chronic pain sufferer myself, my perception of Curly's situation is that he fell from a position of authority into the same situation as Anya because he refused to take action against the human wrecking ball that was Jimmy. His suffering is real and absolutely terrifying, but his situation could have been avoided had he taken action when he had the chance, which is a thing that I feel many disabled folks can't claim, so his situation is divorced somewhat from that reality for me, if that makes sense. For me, that gap is less about whether he was culpable or guilty of something, and not at all about whether it was 'deserved' -- it's more about how he refused to change a situation for someone else, and thus wound up entrapped by it himself - not as a demonstration of karmic retribution, but as a tragedy that emerged from a moral failure. He pretended something wasn't an issue so that it wouldn't be an issue for HIM, and then it became his issue. I suppose that difference might seem like splitting hairs to many people, which is fair. Banger essay. I appreciate hearing perspectives from people about the game in general, but this one deserves a LOT of attention. It's really amazing what this writer managed to do in such a concise game and I love that we're all having conversations like this because of it. (edited bc I swapped names a few times oops)
Being a caregiver makes seeing disabled characters' treatment in horror (like Mouthwashing and Pearl) a special kind of distressing because there's no real way to convey the level of vulnerability disable people experience day to day, doubly so if they need a caretaker and to exploit that vulnerability to cause suffering is truly disgusting. The conversations around Curly have been... interesting, and I'm glad you made this video talking about him from a disable perspective
"Bluesky...it's better than Twitter." That's an understatement! It's like saying a nice, warm, comfy bed is better than sharing a bed made of upturned plugs and Lego with Elon Musk.
"Well, to receive disability benefits, you have to jump through this hoop." "But my disability means it is incredibly difficult to jump through a hoop, and if I did so, I would be in pain for a long time after it." "I'm sorry, the rules are very clear, you must jump through the hoop to be eligible." "Ok, it was difficult, but I jumped through the hoop." "Oh, did you? Well, if you are able-bodied enough to jump through the hoop, then you're able bodied to work! No benefits for you!"
The speech in the ring made me cry. Thank you. Over 15 years of no time off from the pain and having a bad time mentally fighting the pain, etc, this video was something I needed.
It's difficult for one to know they lack perspective when they have no perspective. I'm one of those people who would have come away from the game thinking the "twist" was that Curly deserved it. The way you communicated this game's themes and how they will speak to different groups of people makes it such a deeper experience. Your passion for helping people understand doesn't go unnoticed. Thanks Steph🤘
I had a classmate once who was outwardly disgusted by the very idea of even seeing a disabled person, like the idea made them feel icky and scrunch up their face. I haven't seen them in over a decade, but I sincerely hope they're a better person now.
Thank you for talking about this aspect of Mouthwashing, it's a big part of the horror of it that a lot of people just don't understand. I also have spine fuckery and will probably need a wheelchair at some point and the thought of being completely unable to move is one of my biggest fears. Not because of the possible pain, I deal with that every day, but the loss of agency. And having to just lie there alone with my own depression thoughts is absolutely horrifying.
Seen as a problem, as lesser, that feeling of "you aren't literally dying so you can do this" and having to live up to that until you literally end up in a hospital. And that's mental health from my end, let alone how horrifically treated people with physical disabilities and mental health troubles get. And the way Anya goes...yeesh. Too many people I've known have been treated like she was and only one I've known who passed the way she did...
Fun fact Listerine one of the most popular brands of mouth wash was originally invented as a chemical to clean floors and serialize surgical equipment. Basically many people are cleaning their mouth with a fancy soap everyday.
Well, many care and cosmetic products contain surfactants which you could call 'soap' if you wanted. I don't want to ruin the fun but you're defining soap quite broadly here.
another fun fact: the mouthwash in the game can't even be classified as mouthwash. it's too unsubstantial to serve as food, not hydrating enough to serve as water and the amount of sugar renders it useless as disinfectant or as what it advertised itself to be. sorry i felt like making this comment
@kkima1265 That's what makes the content of their cargo even worse, not only did they carry a ridiculous amount of some crappy mouthwash, it was also useless for any other purpose they could think of. The devs really thought of something so useless it cranks up the absurd of the contrast between the events and the reason why they were on the ship in the first place to the max. They couldn't just stop at "aw haha so funny you carried some insignificant stuff but at least it will come in handy"
Being in the position of having to care for a disabled person wears away at your ability to empathize in a way that is horrifying in itself. I've seen people turn into monsters. I would love to live in a society where caring for the disabled is something to be celebrated and shared so nobody burns out like that.
Jimmy: S.A. abuser, liar, doomed the crew, power-hungry, kills everyone else. The Internet: Somehow this is all Anya's and Curly's fault. Excellent video btw! I do love this game.
@@sun-does-shine Curly's refusal, or perhaps more accurately, his subconscious inability, to accept the darkness that existed inside his friend definitely played a role in the events that unfolded... but Curly discourse tends to push that to the logical extreme of "and therefore he deserved what happened to him." and, like, "No... what? No. Being a bad judge of character who ignores warning signs doesn't mean you deserve to go through THAT. Jesus christ, twitter."
@@lancerguy3667 Curly discourse also loves to miss the fact that he disregards the safety rules when it inconveniences HIM but it's suddenly important when ANYA is the one it inconveniences. (He leaves the axe to Swansea so he doesn't have to deal with it again, the knife (when in Curly's inventory, check its description) is supposed to be locked away like the axe and gun are, but he doesn't want to bother with it every time someone needs to cut something in the kitchen.) Curly isn't just a bad judge of character and enabling his friend, he's ALSO avoiding responsibility when it isn't convenient for him, he wants a path of least resistance. People woobify Curly like crazy and paint him as this victim when, no, from The Last One And Then Another, he's not in fact a victim of Jimmy, he genuinely has a dark enough sense of humor and a big enough "I can fix him" savior complex to think Jimmy's vitriol is just how Jimmy jokes and not building resentment and think that he can fix Jimmy, not realizing he's being patronizing as hell. I love Curly because he's not the worst, but also not GOOD-- he's an ugly, bleak shade of grey. Casting him as excusable OR as irredeemable just means people haven't paid attention to the details enough and missed his whole character. (And the people who say he deserved what he got are plain dumb and should be smacked on the nose with a croc, because they haven't heard of cosmic irony-- that's what his situation is: he refused to take actions and change his course at every point he had when he could have, and as a result, he's now stuck unable to take actions to change course ever again even if he wants to now. Didn't deserve it, but that's what cosmic irony is: it doesn't care if it is or isn't deserved, it just puts you in an ironic situation.)
29:21 This bit hit me really hard. I'm going through the absolute worst period of my life so far, dealing with a lot of issues including medical issues and disabilties that I can't even get properly diagnosed thanks to US Healthcare. And that's on top of things like struggling with my LGBT+ identity(s) and a storm of mental issues that are also untreated (see above). But just hearing you say "I see you. I hear you." Made me burst into tears. Made me feel a little less alone. Thank you. I hope you get all the support you need too (and it sounds like you're surrounded by loved ones that will provide it, but be sure to share a little of it with yourself too).
As a man who had a massive stroke at 18 years old and has lived with physical pain and psychological struggles for decades, a lot of this really spoke to me.
Finally, some actual analysis of the game that amounts to more of a recap and "Jimmy bad". Also just some really really good talk about disability. Thanks Commander.
I honestly think this is the best video you've put out in years. I definitely was shook by Curly's situation and read it in a similar way, but you go into so much more depth it's making me think about other events of the game in a different way. Mouthwashing really is something special. Also, speaking as a fellow disabled person, your speech at the end was absolutely fantastic. Thank God for Steph fucking Sterling, son!
As a chronic pain sufferer myself I really appreciate hearing this part of this game talked about. And really this sort of stuff in general. And I feel what you said about the human ability to adapt being horrifying not only for that but for my chronic mental illness as well. I hate saying it like you did but I have before, but the average person would be in tears with the shit I have to deal with.
I once experienced crippling low back pain for three months. At times it was bad enough that I couldn't even turn to lie more comfortably in bed, much less get up and so much as grab a cup of water. I was in tears. I deeply hope I never experience this again. The most frightening part was when I couldn't find the words to express how much I depended on other people's help, and I'll use this experience to give someone else, some other time carte blanche to ask for any sort of assistance, no questions asked.
I think the theme of autonomy is over the whole game to the point of "subtly is for cowards". The posters threatening the crew if they take too much time to themselves, being stuck with a 5th crew member the ship can barely cover, Jimmy stealing the autonomy from everyone with each one of his decisions. And in that Anya keeping Curly alive and refusing to take away his autonomy by forcing the pills down his throat
This isn't exactly a correction, but the crew CAN'T cover Daisuke's presence on the ship. It's stated at one point that their supplies have to be very carefully rationed, and this is implied to be because Polle Express didn't actually retrofit the ship for the extra crewmate. Just as they only have four cryopods (when policy demands five) they also don't have enough food, water, or oxygen. So yeah. It's so far out of their hands it was basically over before it began.
God that description of the desperation to never return to a place of bad pain flare up. My skin was crawling just from hearing you describe those thoughts I've had so very, very often.
I remember seeing a group of mouthwahing cosplayers posting content online. I think they were cosplaying daisuke and Anya. They had a paper-mache curly that they drove around in a cheap stroller. As a prop. None of the videos they posted needed curly in them, either. It was so ironic.
I cannot adequately describe how much empathy I have for you, Steph, and I genuinely do not know how you can do it. Back in 2018 I "blew out" my L5/S1 (according to my Ortho), and the two months it took to have the surgery for it were hell. Constant pain levels of 9-10, no position or movement being able to alleviate it, and not being able to do much more than moan in a desperate attempt to get some additional relief by making noise. When I woke up in recovery and realized that pain was gone, I legitimately burst into tears and freaked out the nurse who was tending to me. In addition to that, I've had some sort of mystery nerve condition in my pelvis since 2009, meaning 15 years at this point. No doctor, test, screening, imaging, etc., has ever been able to figure out what it is. The best way I can describe it is I get flares of hypersensitivity along with the feeling of restless leg syndrome, but in my pelvis. It's absolutely maddening. I can't sit, I can't lay down, sometimes even standing doesn't alleviate it. And I can never, EVER just lay down and go to sleep. It will flare, and I can't sleep no matter how fucking exhausted I am. There have been nights I've stood NEXT to my bed staring at it while I'm flaring, so frustrated with my own body that I'm close to tears because I just want to SLEEP so fucking badly. I haven't had a solid night's sleep in 15 years now. I don't remember what it's like to just... go to bed and fall asleep for a few hours. I'm lucky if I can scrape together 5-6 hours in chunks of 45-60 minutes at a time, and that isn't restful. Exhaustion has become my new normal. I'm very lucky that my line of work doesn't require a "normal" 9-5 (I'm an illustrator and work from home at whatever hours my body will allow) because I really don't see how I would be able to maintain one. If I'm not ultimately replaced by AI altogether. I have no circadian rhythm anymore. No sleep patterns. I can only imagine the toll the chronic lack of restful sleep has taken on my overall health over the last 15 years, as well as what the state of my body AND career would be in now if I had never developed this problem and my body hadn't failed me. I _know_ it's part of the reason I'm also on antidepressants and anxiety medication, and I'm often a cranky ßetch from exhaustion. I'm endlessly thankful for having family and close friends who understand that and give me a lot of grace when I inevitably snap or bark at them and immediately apologize after. They know I well and truly cannot help it. I've also been on controlled pain meds for all of that time because it's the ONLY thing that calms my flare-ups. And that in itself has been hell with the US healthcare system and how anyone who even glances at pain meds is treated like a d£ug-s€€k!ng junk!€thanks to the media circus surrounding them. And now? I'm terrified the ACA is going to be overturned and I'll lose my insurance, my medicine, AND my access to the pain management doctor who writes the script for me. I don't know what I'm going to do if that happens, because even if I _don't_ get dropped retroactively for pre-existing conditions, I won't be able to afford the premiums without the subsidy I get through the marketplace. So don't even get me _started_ on the effwhits who voted for that orange turd without even knowing what the fuck they were voting for. Even though I doubt you read the comments, I'm sorry for the novel. I tend to word puke when I get going on my health worries. Incredibly long winded comment short, I feel for you. Deeply. And it's part of why if I _ever_ have to cut back on the meager number of creators I support on Patreon, you will far and away be the last woman standing.
I have been waiting for this video this whole time from someone, anyone, who could understand curly in all the ways he has been victimized and the horror of disability in a society that hates the disabled. Anya and Curly are both the characters i related to the most, in a multitude of ways (its why i alsi havr many issues with the way people do talk about curly's decisiins as captains but thats not rekevant atm), and seeing this aspect explored has been so important to me. I too read that line and i knew all too well what jimmy meant, and how it feels ti be talked about that way. I am homebound and bedbound, and before that happened i had already been dealing with a similar back condition to steph. Working was a nightmare, and we actually lost our home once because of my inability to work more after my partner had became too disabled temporarily to work. Able-bodied people have no idea how hard disabled people havr to work to get even our basic needs met, and think we CHOOSE this. As steph said, they simply cannot understand even one iota. As a final note, if anyone wants to see more about curly's inner thoughts and actually hear him, play How Fish is Made. Its kinda a prequel, but some have made the case its actually concurrent with mouthwashing. Deffo check it out
Amazing video. I really, really love how you mentioned the "karmic punishment" reading of Curly's predicament. It is incredibly disturbing to me how often I see it when I read about Mouthwashing.
I am fortunate enough not to have been as incapacitated as long as your stories but 2 years ago I had open heart surgery, was discharged and a few weeks later my scar was infected and starting to open. I couldn't sleep, couldn't eat and had a hole in my chest. It was so painful until I was readmitted to hospital the pain lasting weeks was unbearable. You have my empathy for coping with any extreme amount of pain for as long as you did
I have a friend... several friends, actually, who have chronic pain. Thank you for explaining all this. This puts a lot of their struggles into perspective for me. I was always empathetic of course especially since i have different, chronic issues, but.... yeah. Thank you Steph.
First time i ever had a flareup, I was so scared. I'd never been to the hospital, especially for pain so bad I begged to die, and I was 23 and so very alone. I'll never, ever forget being covered in sick & stuck to an IV that kept bleeding through & sobbing in fear, and that doctor coming in and snorting at me and shaking his head with his arms crossed while telling me i was acting like a stupid child and he'd throw me out. I was so ashamed, I hated causing trouble & I just wanted to stop existing completely. Same hospital staff called me a "he/she/it" while I was stuck there for a week & refused me my sleep medication. Its scary how some people take advantage of their care over others who cant do anything about it.
My friend who walks with a cane because he often looses his balance talks about disability theatre. Like if he decides to use a nice fancy cane people assume he is just a hipster and is holding it for show and doesn’t need the cane because it doesn’t look “medical” enough.
One thing that's worth pointing out with end game spoiler: ... ... ... When Jimmy is carving up Curly's body for food, he feeds Curly on Curly's own flesh. Maybe he eats Curly as well, but quite pointedly he feeds Curly his own body to sustain him. Because that's how sick and twisted his sense of 'responsibility' has become. He is taking the cycle of justifying his actions as being done for the 'good' of someone else while he is literally harming them to its extreme. It's a recurring motif of the game, and the understanding of that psychological aspect of abuse is one of the many indications that the writing is done well. The narrative goes to some incredibly dark and haunting places, but it earns those moments through care and clarity of purpose. It's not just being edgy for its own sake.
I actually noticed *THE LINE* when I was watching a Let's Play on Twitch. It affected me so hard, that I couldn't really keep engaging with it as a game. As a person with disabilities, and surrounded by people with disabilities, the dehumanization of it struck me so clearly. I don't think it was a throwaway line, I think it was deliberately crafted - the way it was thrown out (as opposed to "when we run out of this, we will have no way to relieve the pain" which would have the same secondary meaning - i.e. "kill him") it seems clear that Jimmy perceives Curly as a way he can justify himself and "play the hero."
I hated the idea that "curly deserved this". Because as "poetic" as it might be, that now that he can't stop his friend he has to suffer under his hand like Anya did. It's a lot more compelling to me, that he just isn't a perfect victim, but HE IS STILL A VICTIM. the abuser here, is Jimmy. That no one deserves this, no matter what, a person does not deserve this, and implying that he does, is implying he isn't a person. Which is, overall, how society sees disability. Beautiful analysis, thank God for you!!
14:18 I wish I could remember her name but a TikTok creator made a pretty decent put idea that Curly’s disability isn’t karmic retribution but rather a case of dramatic irony for how he treated Anya. Personally part of the reason he laughs towards the end is because he’s just broken from Anya being right about everything and he ignored her. Anya dies in the one place she felt safe from jimmy, in front of him and jimmy ends up finding the gun she told curly she hid because she felt he couldn’t be trusted with the crews safety if he learned about the pregnancy.
I don't see how karmic retribution and dramatic irony are all that different concepts in the way you used it here. You are still saying that the way he treated Anya is somehow connected to the fact he is disabled which is the issue.
@@404maxnotfound Because karmic retribution would be if he died and then reincarnated as a person with disability. Karma requires reincarnation. No reincarnation, not karma.
@@404maxnotfound Karma in itself is wrongly used to mean justice. Karma isnt picking sides. Its a mirror of what has been done. Its not about atonement, or justice. Its not connected. Just like suffering in reincarnation isnt connected. It just happened again, under different circumstances. In this case. Abuse and suffering happened twice.
@@Leo0718 Well, karma's not real, so it doesn't make any sense to appeal to a "true" or "authentic" definition of karma. Even if karma was real, we can't apply any hard definition of it to an explicitly fictional narrative, unless the authors specifically define what karma means to them within the context of the work, or if the work itself establishes karma as extant and working in some way. Karma exists only as a concept in people's minds, so it "works" only insomuch as it works in the mind of the viewer and as understood in the discourse. My assumption is that the majority of the audience of this game (and probably these developers) views karma (if they take it seriously at all) as either a) metaphysical or divinely enforced consequences, or b) a fancy word for irony. They are probably more likely to believe in either a spiritual afterlife or death-as-finality than in a reincarnation cycle. @404maxnotfound I agree with you. In either case, the argument is that Curly was punished by either karma or the narrative for failing to protect his crew from Jimmy, with the implicit claim that the punishment was just. We could argue that Curly had a moral and legal responsibility to protect his crew, but if he had been a good captain, the game never would have happened.
@@dallium01 dramatic irony doesn't exist either. Not in the material world. But we are discussing a literary work of fiction. In that context karmic retribution does have a most commonly meaning associated with the religious concept of karma, and it requires reincarnation. For example, a cruel hunter is reborned as a deer after a hunting accident. That is karmic retribution. It's like a whole literature topic and everything. Mouthwash is just irony. No need for fancy words, regardless of your personal spiritual beliefs.
Someone really should! In Minecraft, for example. They could, say, crowd into all the office skyscraper top floors, and defenestrate a whole bunch of health insurance CEOs and boards of directors, in Minecraft. Not in real life, obviously! Doing that is against the law. You're not allowed to hurt people deliberately _in real life!_ ...Unless you're an insurance CEO, of course! But I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything.
Thank you for making this video. I've played Mouthwashing and while I did feel great sympathy for Curly during the story, I hadn't picked up on how the other characters dehumanize him throughout the game, even without meaning to. And Curly wasn't even the primary source of my horror for the game, for me it was the themes of suicide and isolation in outer space. Like you said, the game has many layers of horror.
The thing that always stuck with me is the horse symbolism, cause I love cartoon ponies. I think all the horse symbolism is a metaphor for dehumanization - like the historical Pony Express, they're being replaced with a more automated, mechanized solution. They're not treated as sentient, they're treated like beasts of burden. Somebody also pointed out to me that Jimmy's answer of becoming attracted to cartoon horses can be symbolic of his own misogyny, drawing such a direct line between how he sees women and how he sees horses - as beasts of burden. broodmares, just _things_ to be _used_.
I'm so glad this video exists, I was hoping someone would cover this aspect of the game, horror as a genre has a terrible track record when it comes to portraying disability, and since I have neither the eloquence nor the personal experience to go in-depth into it with mouthwashing, I'm thankful that you did. I'm also thankful for the wrestling segment near the end. One thing I find very interesting about curly as a character is that I can now point to a fictional person to say "You can look at what you know and absolutely hate his guts, but you still have to recognize no one 'deserves' all that". I mean, hell, even if jimmy was the one who ended up being in the cockpit it would still not be justice because that's not what justice *is*, in the same way that bullet through his brain wasn't jimmy "taking responsability", the excruciating pain and dehumanization curly is put through isn't a punishment for his innaction, it's just the direct result of being in the impact zone of a spaceship and an asteroid, there is no morality inherent to the fact a human body can lose limbs/organs and still be kept alive.
God, I feel this. I still remember the nurse who flinched when she took my vitals and I explained that this is how I always felt. For anyone else having organs turn necrotic would have been mind shattering pain. For me it was a Tuesday. I have been so fucking lucky to have people who didn't just take care of me but actually cared for me.
I have two herniated discs- one happened when I was 17, the other when I was 18 and I live in basically non stop pain from them. I feel so much for what you talked about in regards to your chronic pain and wow, it really got to me, made me sit down for a bit. I try not to give the pain too much brain space, especially not on the bad days, but it does feel like I'm trapped sometimes. I didn't expect this from todays video, but... thank you, I suppose. I will have to give myself more space to think about being in pain without being scared of admitting that I am. Much love
I've been trying to get on SSI for around a decade now for a variety of mental health issues that developed when I was 12 and made it impossible to progress through high school beyond my sophomore year. The shit SSA gets up to in an effort to block as many people as possible from surviving, specifically to free up more money for corporate tax cuts and subsidies, is the sort of shit nobody ever believes until they see the paperwork I've received with their own eyes. A great example is paying random doctors you've never even heard of to write entirely fake reports about conversations you've never had where they submit fabricated statements you've never made. Your only hope is to appeal and reapply over and over and over and hope your case gets in front of the right person at the right time (my attorney specifically mentioned "not on a Friday afternoon, not within 30 minutes of a break or lunch, not right before a tee time, etc. etc.") in one of the rare time frames where they're being pressured to approve just enough people to get their metrics down because their denial rates are getting so high that people are starting to notice. My father was diagnosed with a stage 4 glioblastoma and given a three-to-six month prognosis (this was around a decade ago, also). He was denied, too. If you've ever wondered why there's such a massive number of people who are _undeniably_ disabled and unable to support themselves living on the streets, this is probably the single largest factor. They know if they can just drag their feet (every step of the process takes a _minimum_ of a full year) long enough that the vast majority of applicants will be dead, in jail or on the street long before they can make it all the way through the system. It's the same "delay, deny, defend" shit the insurance industries get up to.
It occurs to me that Mouthwashing is particularly horrifying within the context of expansion of assisted dying in the UK. I’m a disabled Canadian and have been closely following MAiD for a number of years now, and the way many MAiD recipients are also organ donors, drift into death by the government-led slashing of resources like food/ food banks, pain meds and treatment, etc. because it’s less expensive to kill us than keep us alive… that’s Mouthwashing.
The tendency to make the bad guy disabled in some way is definitely concerning. I don't know if the original draft of Star Wars had Darth Vader as missing most of his flesh or just wearing a chest plate with buttons on it, but Obi-Wan _does_ say he's "more machine now than human, twisted and evil" as though the two are directly linked. Maybe he was just being metaphorical, but that would be a weird choice considering _he was the one_ who lopped off Anakin's limbs and left him burning on the side of a lava river. Meanwhile Palpatine, who as far as we know, is all flesh, is still a withered old man who probably didn't have much time left. The obvious, Vader-like mechanized parts continued to be a distinguishing feature of the Sith in other Star Wars material, whereas hero Luke got a replacement hand that looks just like his old one. Maybe it was just a difference in what they were capable of in the special effects department back then, but Luke doesn't _look_ different like the Sith, no big, obvious metal attached to flesh like Darth Malak or Darth Malgus, nowhere near the robo-skeleton of General Grievous, so the audience knows he's not a monster. When Anakin first got a hand chopped off, it was replaced with a clearly metal, almost skeletal hand, as if to mark him as moving toward the dark side. The original villain of Resident Evil, Oswald Spencer? Old man in a wheelchair. Meanwhile the more active bad guy, Albert Wesker, was killed and revived with his own special mutant serum, which still made him handicapped in that he was dependent on more injections every few hours, too much or too little of it in his system producing the same effect as being poisoned. The Deus Ex series with Adam Jensen, where people with augmentations are regularly treated like freaks, monsters, and time bombs. There are probably a bunch more examples, but that was what sprung to mind. It's an interesting way to look at how we mark bad guys in fiction and how it relates to real-world treatment of the disabled.
The whole pain segment really got to me. I've had a doctor look at me and say "I don't believe you're at a 7" simply because I wasn't "performing" the 7 pain. Because my pain tolerance is so high that I can slap my hand on metal straight out of the oven and just be like "Oh, hm, ouch, that really hurts" when most people wouldn't have to perform the ouchies of burning off a layer of skin. Most people don't even know I'm in pain until I tell them, and I got denied disability money because of that, even though I'm at a 7 every day I'm out of bed for more than 3 hours. Also lowkey helped me realize that my being extremely antagonistic to landlords (and other smaller incidents with random businesses) is a coping mechanism.
Ohh this hit me in the feels. My son has complex medical needs, he is non-verbal and non-mobile with a life limiting condition. But he is also a bundle of joy, loves a cuddle, his sensory lights , bath time, Bob's burgers and war movies on TV and frothy milk or cream (he can't swallow but loves the taste). He's a joy, every moment of every day, and so incredibly brave with all his challenges. Either me or his mum are with him 24/7 both to help keep his airway open and to give him comfort and company. He's never alone. It's crazy the amount of medical professionals that push an advanced care plan (kinda like a palliative plan) and just want to right off his life... Or the amount of social professionals that want him to have respite or go into care (to give me and mum a break), we don't want a break, sure someone to pick up the meds or do the dishes would be helpful, but not time away from him. What's annoying is hey think their helping but it dehumanizing. We always make decisions based on the question "what would I want if it was me?" . Would I at 7 want to be changed by a nurse? Or spend a weekend in respite away from mum and dad? No... Ok cool, then we go with that. He isn't the burden, bills, external family, work, yeah that's tough...But he is the light that gets you through.
I've never played this game but the description of chronic pain and flares had me nodding along. My gallbladder got infected and started shutting my liver down a few years ago - the pain wasn't much more intense than a flare, so I ignored it until I got a deep sense of dread that told me it was more than that. Everyone around me who'd experienced gallstones told me that it was the worst pain they had ever experienced, they didn't understand why I'd left it so long. The pain to be wasn't that bad tbh compared to the pain I usually have. Was about a six.
I see so much gross art and talk in the mouthwashing fandom about burn victims comparing curly to meat and even making fun of how he would complain about his pain if he were to use a speech aide. I hate the mouthwashing fandom it is legitimately the most ableist fandom I’ve ever seen. They tag curly with body horror as if people with burns don’t exist and use his injuries as imagery for horror and do not do any research about people with burns
I am disabled, but not physically. But my uncle has been disabled since before I was born. He had an accident when he was 17, spent years in a coma. Hospital staff back then tried to kill him by not feeding him because "he was taking up a bed other people could use". My grandmother, his mother and my caretaker later on, stopped working and had to commute to him every day to feed him a meal she had made. She learned how to care for him, since his brain was so damaged he could not speak, remember things for long, walk, feed himself, nothing. She spent all her time with him, taking him to the garden in a wheelchair while she gardened, sleeping in the same bed to keep an eye on him (he has a hole in his neck to prevent choking and it has to be kept dry). She did physio with him to keep his muscles from atrophying. She got him to be able to use a fork again to feed himself, even tho his hands would shake a lot. She fought tooth and nail for him. Yet he is self aware. He has been trapped in his body for more then 30 years, his limbs now thin, muscles atrophied. My grandmother has been his full time caretaker. She is now too weak and ill herself to care for him as she used to. He was a prop to me when I was a child. I was a bit afraid of him, but I didn't see him as a person fully. Now I can't help but want to cry every time i see him. He tried to stretch his arm to me, his hand wrapped in socks so he could not poke his eyes out. I took his hand and held it. The medications help soothe, but the can't take the pain away. He takes strong antipsychotics. I wish there was a way to end the suffering.
As someone completely sidelined with chronic pain and illness I can’t express how much I appreciate this piece. It’s so rare to hear anyone so perfectly articulate what it is to be othered and abandoned by a society designed to discard you the moment you can’t produce at the desired level.
That wrestling bit near the end brought me to tears. Wracking, heart-wrenching sobs. I had no idea how much I needed to hear that from someone. Thank you Stephanie. I was diagnosed with a chronic illness about three months ago. It’s likely that I’ll become partially or fully wheelchair bound at some point in my life. I was devastated. The sport I’ve recently become involved in is basically impossible to do if you’re in a wheelchair. The fact that I’ve just found a way to stay active that I genuinely love and now it could be snatched away from me at any time has been really tough to bear. It’s people like you who give me hope and bring me joy. Thank you. Thank you so much.
The first episode, ever, of The Jimquisition where I had to stop part way through and take a breath before I could finish it. There is nothing so accurate about having an "invisible" disability than having to show off how bad it is just to be believed and then you only get answers and advice like "oh just get better." "Don't be sad." and my personal favorite "It could be worse."
The true horror of Curly is that he is suffering through what he put Anya true. Unseen, unheard, abandoned, treated as an issue to handle. Its horrible. Its sad. And the horror is his refusal to act upon his responsibility as captain is what left him in this situation. Its not about being deserved. Karma is not justice, suffering is not atonement. Its a thematic mirror of how truly horrible what the other went through is.
One thing I think people overlook, partially due to the sheer brutality that is what happened to Anya and Curly, but each and every one of the characters on the Tulpar are a victim of Jimmy's nature at some point or another - taking away their autonomy through different means. With Anya and Curly it's pretty evident at this point, but Swansea was literally drugged (and that comment Jimmy makes about him not remembering anything afterwards), and then with Daisuke, he COERCES him into doing something he knew was a risk and didn't want to do.
I do think its a thematic parallel, especially considering anya is the one who prolongs his suffering by saving him. he prolonged her suffering by not taking action AKA not taking responsibility. She prolongs his by saving his life knowing full well he will only suffer. Anya's actions can even be read as her version of avoiding responsibility, the responsibility a doctor or nurse would have to let a patient pass away in peace. It reminds me so much of Hisashi Ouchi's case that I wonder if the devs were inspired by it when it came to curly.
I am so glad you spoke your bit about dealing with chronic pain. I've got spina bifida and I only found out when I was in my mid 20s (I'm 58 now). I have real difficulty trying to tell people about how the pain is constant but you learn to push it into the background, but at the expense of it being demanding, energy wise. As such if I'm lucky I'll get a couple of hours a day to be able to do anything. I wish this were more publicised as many still look at me doing something and equating that to being alright.
The clip you included from the wrestling match made me cry. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder many years ago, and in the past two years it's turned into *severe* major depressive disorder. I never used to struggle with making it to work or staying in touch with friends and family who all live within driving distance, and the self destructive thoughts -- I can't remember a time I was ever this scared for so long. But being reminded that as someone with a disability that I'm not alone, that it can be fought for as long as possible, really hit me. You've been an inspiration (and a source of gender envy, and I mean that in the most complimentary way possible) to me ever since I started watching in 2020. Commander Sterling, Pansexual Princesque of Pangalactic Pandemonium, I thank you. I have the strength to keep going thanks to you.
I will never, ever forget how casually my DM from my weekly D&D game said I was a "leech on society" because I receive disability benefits. For my cerebral palsy.
People who are healthy, disability-free? They have no idea.
Shit, wish you could join our D&D group and leave that loser 😅 You'd think, "being normal about disabled people," would be a pretty low bar for a DM who has to work with people to play a collaborative game, but...
ooooh my god i’d be in jail😭 im so sorry dude. people are awful about being on disability, ive even had my own doctors be shitty about it to my face
@@lightworthy Oh that's probably the best part. When I was working on getting my doctor to sign off on my disability support application, he looked me dead in the face and said, "If I can't get my own son on disability, why should I do it for you?" (Because his son was in a wheelchair and disability was giving him the usual run-around - deny, deny, deny until you force a tribunal... same thing ended up happening to me.)
Just, right there in front of me and my dad. I'm kind of amazed that my dad didn't just obliterate him right then and there.
I'm so sorry, I hope you find a better dm who actually respects
@@unholierthanthou7748 Thing is, he wasn't speaking in a derogatory way. By that I mean he wasn't saying it out of anger or malice or bitterness or any of that.
He just... said it. Off the cuff, innocent as could be. It's one of the less fun parts about being a disabled person: people just saying the most insane and out-of-pocket stuff in their ignorance.
It’s interesting that Anya’s reason for being afraid of giving Curly his meds is because “it just hurts him so much”, where she’s sympathetic to his pain but unable to handle it due to her own trauma, while Jimmy, who is Curly AND Anya’s abuser and has taken up the mantle of responsibility that no one asked him to do, wants to give Curly the meds to “keep him quiet.” It’s such an interesting dichotomy, that Anya wants to help but can’t give Curly what he needs because she likely fears dehumanizing him further, while Jimmy is fine giving them to him because he’s already so used to dehumanizing him, even before the crash (although while Curly was idolized pre-crash, post-crash Curly is seen as a burden by him).
Curly really can’t win. Ableism is so entrenched in the Pony Express atmosphere (from their insane work hours to refusing to help employees with formal complaints), that even those well intentioned on the ship end up failing him.
“even those well intentioned on the ship end up failing him” is such a good way to put it. It’s really sad that that phrase could apply to Anya as well. Curly and Anya are two sides of a similar coin, sharing the same abuser and with the best of intentions unable to alleviate the suffering of each other. Anya cannot forcibly insert medication down the throat of Curly because of her trauma and possibly pregnancy-induced nausea. And Curly couldn’t protect Anya from Jimmy because Curly had trusted someone who took advantage of their friendship but who always resented him, and a large part of Curly’s inaction was because the company, cutting corners where they can, left the only means of resolving conflict on this long haul space freighter a gun. Of course even after the heinous thing Jimmy did, Curly would want to give Jimmy the possibly to repent and take responsibility for what he’s done: no one would just jump straight to shooting a friend. But that effectively meant Jimmy continued to roam around without consequence.
I really would have liked to know what Curly was thinking when watching Anya end it all, and then when he was being carried by Jimmy into the cryo pod. of course because the game is from Jimmy’s perspective it might have cut down the whole thesis of Jimmy’s inability to consider anyone other than himself or to actually take responsibility (rather than what he ASSUMES taking responsibility would be), but I would have liked even just one last curly segment with Anya post-crash, that way even without Jimmy there could be some sort of voice given a voice to the two most silenced people in the game.
@ I agree so much. The ableism and prioritization of money over all else really is the biggest villain, cus it left people who are otherwise decent to fend for themselves and be unable to effectively do any good. I love how human the characters in this game feel
@@gregjayonnaise8314 Yeah. The whole thing is... a lot.
I think about the thing Anya says, "I dont want to believe our worst moments make us monsters."
Fuck, man.
This is a really insightful perspective, especially 'even the well-intentioned end up failing', because it's very true to life. Systems of oppression and injustices are often not only reinforced by people of ill-intent, but also by people of good will who are, for whatever reason, unable to push back against them.
At the end of the day, I think it comes down mostly to a combination of ignorance; people either not knowing better or not know how to do better, and either not caring or being exhausted by the effort.
The malicious parties who benefit from the imbalance will always put their hand on the scale, but the bulk of what enables injustice is when people don't actively make the effort to change things for the better.
Education and activism are the tools for positive change, but it still requires people going out and doing the hard work.
as a disabled person "we'll have nothing to keep him quiet" brought me to tears
So little empathy, in too many people. Even though the best way to get someone to stop complaining is usually to just _help them._ Is that so hard for people to get?
yeah I'm disabled and that line hit me really hard too. had to sit there for a couple minutes just going 'jesus christ'
@@hazukichanx408 I'm not physically disabled, but one of the most infuriating and saddening things about my mental disability is how much *less* of a burden I'd be now, how much more capable, how much better I'd be, if my parents had helped me when I needed it.
They "helped" in that they provided resources, they did things for me. But they never, say, taught me to take care of myself. Taught me how to do the things you need to learn as an adult. Coming to grips with that recently has been very frustrating. If I can somehow drag myself out of this hole of helplessness I've got to live with the fact that I've lost decades of my life and all of my potential success to my parents not being willing to give a little bit of help when I needed it.
I've only ever had two extremes of being spoiled and having everything done for me, or being neglected and ignored at best. All I ever needed was a little bit of help. Just the bare minimum of emotional engagement. I hate it. And I hate that because they've done so much it feels like I can't be mad about the fact that they didn't do the one thing they actually needed to do.
I'll be eternally thankful for their financial support and for how much they've done for me, but sometimes I get so angry at the fact that they didn't teach me to be a functioning human being.
Physically disabled over here, with C-PTSD from adenomyosis that had me in severe pain for years and had my body shutting down from sheer exhaustion when I finally got my hysterectomy at 26.
The thing that stuck with me was what the pain meds WERE, because I've taken them. Even at the beginning chronologically when they were well stocked, "the good stuff" was given in such a low dose for such severe injuries that it really wouldn't have done much of anything. By the end, they were giving paracetamol (tylenol) in the dose you'd take for a headache. I had to pause the let's play and just... sit with that for a while.
One of the scariest lines in the game for me (chronic pain squad hi)
24:45 Swansea was the one that resonated with me. The man who decided to "get his life together." Start a family, work hard, get a house, and a hopefully decent job. But at the end of the day, no matter how hard he worked, no matter how much he struggled to stay sober and "do the right thing," it was simply impossible to feel good about what he was doing. And the happiest he ever was, wasn't when he got the house or the family or the job, it was when he was drunk and passed out on a couch. And those days are long gone.
I've seen hard work pay off, sure. But I've also seen hard work amount to nothing because the people in charge decide you're completely disposable. Just a number, hell not even that, just a part of a bar chart that needs to be cut because we have to appease the shareholders. And then you're back on the street due to no part of your own.
But heeeey, you have skills right? You'll just rebound right? One door closes, another opens, right? I'm sure more corporate slogans and empty platitudes will definitely work this time.
For quite i a while i though his personality to be a bit stereotipical (the bitter lazy drunk)... but he totally turned around during the last part of the game, and 100% understood him. Fantastic character.
@@tonk82 The thing about the stereotypical drunk is that the stereotype is not bad, but rather how it is handled. SOMETIMES they go into why they became a drunk, but seldom more than that, and maybe they resolve it by "Hey, we solved the reason for them being alcoholic, so now they are getting better!"
But the problem is... Well, to quote discworld
"He was vaguely aware that he drank to forget. What made it rather pointless was that he couldn’t remember what it was he was forgetting anymore. In the end he just drank to forget about drinking."
The alcohol abuse started as a crutch, then became the disability itself.
I'm nearly 150 days sober, and the idea of maintaining sobriety for fifteen years, only to be trapped on a ship hauling a lifetime supply of your vice, kept at bay for so many challenging days, is both deeply heartbreaking, and upsetting.
Then to make matters worse, almost immediately after he inevitably relapses, his addiction is used to manipulate him, and ultimately results in him having to mercy kill a friend.
Unbelievably brutal. Mouthwashing is a beautiful nightmare.
Oh I LOVE this analysis. He also ended up being one of my favorite characters in the end. ESPECIALLY because Swansea is the only person who rightfully realized that Jimmy needed to be f*cking killed as soon as Anya told him what happened. He DID do the right thing; he had enough of a backbone to realize there were crewmembers that needed his protection and support. But even then, in the spirit of the wretchedness of this game, he wasn't really a paragon of virtue -- he clearly didn't pick up on what was going on until the very end, and only tried to kill Jimmy when the people he wanted to protect were already dead. 'Avenging' is only so redeeming of a quality, in the grand scheme of things.
But that plays to Swansea's character too, only able to pick himself up and turn things around AFTER hitting rock bottom by way of alcoholism (passing out under a streetlight, passing out after getting drugged, etc).
Anyway, all that to say that yeah, there's so much about Swansea's character that was so well-written and could totally be missed in the meta-discussion.
The last time I heard a koolaid-pilled drone blathering on about Kids These Days™ and how they "have no work ethic" I told him that the only real difference between his generation and my generation that was when he worked hard he was allowed to get ahead, and when I worked hard I was allowed to survive. He said nothing to that and I followed up with "Whether or not the Kids These Days™ will be allowed to survive remains to be seen, and nothing is making it any easier no matter how hard they work.". Haven't heard any regurgitated slogans out of that one since.
I always disliked takes about how Curly got what was coming to him for being, like. A Normal Guy levels of stupid enabler. I've had friends who are no worse than Curly, who are blind to the abuse of their friends in turn, but it always has that tone of "we can't win against the real abusers, the real abusers are untouchable" and a tacit transfer of blame to the people who "should have stopped" the abuse. It's blame-shifting -- it's blaming Curly for Jimmy's actions, it's othering the abuser into an unknown and blaming the ones we *do* know.
Great video. Thank you.
Medical Insurance: Ok, so here are the hoops you have to jump through or else you won't get health care.
Disabled person finally manages to get through all the hoops.
Insurance: See, you made it through all those hoops! You've proven you don't need health care.
@@megamangos7408 oh I've been there. It's plain evil.
If only there was some way for insurance to not be utter bastards
Yep, been there...also things like "you can't work while disabled or that proves your not disabled, but you also need extensive, expensive medical testing to prove your condition, but also if someone is acting as a care giver for you (spouse, namely), then they can cover your costs so we're not providing anything". I swear we spend more on the hoops than it'd cost to just give everyone coverage.
@@TheKingNaesala "I swear we spend more on the hoops than it'd cost to just give everyone coverage." That's mathematically true!
@@TheKingNaesala it's literally rigged. Know a few people that work at insurance places and have confirmed this to me several times.
Im disabled and an sa survivor i love how mouthwashing parallels the two of them, the loss of autonomy, the dehumanisation, the way some people are grossed out by our existence, find us a burden, dont believe us or think we deserve it is something both experience. Great video steph i loved mouthwashing but it definitely did hurt.
And as a fellow disabled person, are you doing OK?
@Roadent1241 oh don't worry I'm doing okay I have a good therapist thanks for asking though :)
@copperclaw3638 You're welcome. ^_^
I'm so glad to hear your perspective. I love this juxtaposition but I worried it may have come off badly to actual people affected by those issues. It does seem like they put a ton of thought and care into depicting terrible things.
Yeah, I've mostly only seen discourse on whether or not Curly "deserved" becoming disabled as punishment, but to me it seemed not so much punishment, but a narrative of cruel parallel situations -- Curly failed to protect a vulnerable member of his crew, and now he himself is in a vulnerable position. And in both cases, Jimmy was the one who caused it
Seriously glad to have been able to help make this video happen, glad my footage was good, and just proud as hell to be involved in something that takes an extremely good look at an aspect of the game few have spoken about, so as a fellow chronic pain sufferer, thank you for that. And thank you for the shout out, I seriously appreciate it.
Love your work, Casey! Appreciate two of my favorite people collaborating!
@@Leukavia Thank you! :)
Thank you so much Casey!
Hey there, Casey! Fingers crossed for the improvement of your health! (I'm also a chronic sufferer, but in my case it's hypersomnia, a tough bastard.)
This is the single thing I know you for and I live you.
As soon as Steph mentioned how people can see disabled people as monsters, I finally got why some people read Gregor Samson's plight in Metamorphosis through a disability lens.
That's one of the hallmarks of a great piece of analysis: it makes you reconsider things you've previously experienced.
Jesus. Third attempt at leaving a comment. First was hidden by RUclips and the second deleted. I wouldn't mind "something" happening to the family in the story, considering how quickly and venomously they turned on the person who kept them alive for years. A great story, though.
Nice Kafka reference!
True. I've always seen it as being about mental illness and especially depression, but it's the same theme, being seen as less than human when you can't contribute to society anymore. When you are neither useful nor fun to be around.
@@Maurrokh Well, mental illness and depression can become a form of disability. Not physical disability, not on its own, but still.
As a Jewish dood like Kafka, I always thought it was about being Jewish. You're always at risk of being seen as vermin for any reason at all, and forced to go through life despite that.
I fully get people hating the mouthwashing fandom because the amount of genuine ableism I've seen from it towards curly makes my stomach turn. Many of them cannot grasp that curly being indecisive and complicit in what happened to anya and also him being a victim too are both true statements. Saying he deserved to be disabled/force fed his own leg/should have been raped instead of anya because he didn't know how to react to finding out his friend is a monster is beyond disgusting. it completely misses several major points of the game and of anya's character.
I'd personally posit that Curly was a victim of Jimmy's even before the crash- not to the same degree as Anya, of course, but I think it's pretty clear that he's used to Jimmy berating him and shaming him into following along and covering for him.
@@CollinBuckman That's a point that's extremely easy to miss. You don't need to be outright and openly harmed to be a victim of an abuser. Being gaslit, shamed and manipulated are all a form of abuse too. It doesn't mean Curly is excused for being an enabler on a personal level, or the responsibility he's failed as a captain. But he is painfully human. And empathy for him doesn't necessarily preclude empathy for Anya. Like you say, they're both very much victims of Jimmy.
Wait, huh? I have never seen that last awful Curly take before, holy cannolis! That is awful! Frankly people who think stuff like "this guy reacted wrong to an incredibly distressing and jarring situation, so he deserves to be raped!" really aren't ready to engage with media like Mouthwashing yet! That is a _terrifyingly wrong take_ and I wish I could un-know that people apparently think that.
@@CollinBuckman there are definitely hints showing curly might have been psychologically and emotionally abused by jimmy. The game just makes me so sad, i really wish curly never met jimmy and none of the characters suffered
@@Pepstep_07 For real Jimmy has been gaslighting curly the entire game
I cried during your wrestling segment speech. It is literally the first time I have felt seen in my entire life rather than dismissed. Thank you.
Digital hug
It's a powerful speech. Not just the words, but the emotion, the passion, the frustration behind them. It's always good to know we're not alone... that there are people out there who _do_ know and understand what we're going through.
Not gonna lie- it always irked me that research shows a “lower pain threshold” in chronic pain patients (i.e. a touch that would not phase the average person too much, is already painful to those with chronic pain). But in the context of “what if we broke somebody’s arm and (after a while with pain) THEN had a re-test what they thought was painful”, I’d imagine a very similar outcome. The mind is already way to preoccupied with keeping the CONSTANT pain in check, that it can’t deal with a lot more.
I research chronic pain, been working with something called the Orgonometer for 4 years. Consider checking it out? I don’t sell them but I’m told they can stop chronic pain. Either way wishing you the best.
@@Anomalyresearchlabs might be placebo because it's sadly pseudoscience and not proven. Please no one actually spend money on this.
A lot of places taking advantage of people's desperation for relief. Keep yourself safe and if anything sounds to good to be true with pain relief sadly it is.
Ps. Sorry I know you're just trying to help. Just be careful with these kinds of things that people can get exploited with. Have had family loose a lot because of this kind of stuff.
As a person with chronic, and often debilitating, pain, I've never felt more seen during a video essay. Able bodied people dont think it'll ever be them, but anyone could be wrapped in bandages and bedbound by tomorrow, putting them at the mercy of other people who in turn think it'll never be them. Many people are fine one day, and changed forever the next. Most people become disabled before they die. Disability justice is justice for everyone. Thanks so much for the video, JSS. You made me cry!
I wish more abled bodied people would realise how disability can happen to anyone. Before the pandemic I was able-bodied-ish (I suffered an injury in 2018 or so and didn't get it looked at until 2020 where medication wouldn't fix it at all. So while I still could walk I was still in slight pain), still disabled mentally and with undiagnosed ADHD at the time. But I could walk and stand for long periods of time. But something in my back messed up, and for a few months at the end of 2020 to the start of 2021 I was bedridden because I could not walk properly. It was the most horrible moment in my life, and I've suffered some pretty trauma-inducing shit. I'm still not 100% there, but I have a high sneakin' suspicion that I have a condition called ankylosing spondylitis, which is an inflammatory arthritis condition that can cause some of your vertebrae to fuse. The fusion is called bamboo spine, it's really gross. While it's more diagnosed in amab folks, it's because it's undiagnosed in afab folks, and is something that begins in early adulthood.
Anyways, long story short. I just, agree, that I wish people didn't think it'd never happen to them. If the pandemic taught us anything, it's that disability, whether chronic or temporary, mentally or physically. It can happen to anyone.
@mxmissy Thanks for sharing
It literally happened to me several years ago. Although I wasn't ever fully ablebodied. But I woke up one day, went into work, and fell over and couldn't get back up. Ended up bedbound for months, in and out of hospital (sent home twice by the same er doctor who insisted i was just anxious, gotta love medical professionals being good at their jobs! /s) and I still can't walk properly. I'm barely allowed out of the house without someone else present because of the fall risk. And yeah, I never thought it'd happen to me. It's almost like getting struck by lightning or something. You know it happens to some people, but the chances are so tiny for any random person it just doesn't occur to you it's a real possibility until it happens. It'd be fantastic if more people could realise that they're one accident or illness away from chronic disability, and especially that it isn't their fault if it happens. Just some more compassion would be nice.
Me too ❤
@@mxmissy In my experience, a lotta abled people also don't realize how DRAINING a bout of chronic pain can be, an exhaustion that lasts well into the next day. They'll be like, 'but you're not in pain now, so...???' Truly frustrating...
What I like about Mouthwashing is that the monster was never Curly, even if he did some shit - or failed to do some shit - which casts him in a flawed/complicit light. It's not that he deserved his disfigurement or disability, but it's an interesting dichotomy between the disfigured, disabled person not being the monster, but the self-justifying able bodied man who was just *plain evil* even before the events of the crash, who Curly himself protected, being the most monstrous character of all.
Curly's disfigurement and disabling event was not his fault, but protecting Jimmy was, and all that Jimmy did after it all was enabled by his complicity.
blacks smh
Something I like about Curly as a disabled story?
He was perfectly totally fine for his entire life UNTIL he was disabled. Lots of people like to imagine they'll be fully abled their whole lives, and...buddies? Fellas? We're not. We're not going to be able to do that. It's just not in the cards.
I'm down to my left eye and right arm. Lost the use of my legs, left arm, spine, and right eye over time. I used to climb mountains in order to take pictures of the wildflowers growing on cliffs. Now I use an electric wheelchair and can't go over a 1 inch bump in broken sidewalk.
Lends more and more weight behind the notion of calling able bodied and minded people "not yet disabled".
Health/abilities are subject to constant dice rolls on uncountable variables. Some dice can be weighted by reasonably healthy choices and trying not to make avoidable mistakes.
But there will always be ones outside one's control and knowledge. While some of those things can be boons and privileges others don't have modifying those chances... things WILL break down and de-compensate with age. Shit just happens.
Longer one's on this rock, the more likely something's gotta give.
'That pain lets us know we are alive'
As someone who suffers from chronic wide spread pain... I DON'T NEED TO BE REMINDED I AM ALIVE!! I ALREADY FUCKING KNOW!!!
You talking about not wanting to be a bother is all too relatable. Last year I stopped being able to describe my pain. Yup 7 years after getting that damn pain I couldn't tell the difference anymore its just there. I'm on my 8th year of my diagnosis and it's hell on earth. Thank you for telling your story and your experience with chronic pain because the more able bodied people hear about it, the more it gets believed and understood. Well at least I hope that's the case.
It's such a pointlessly edgy thing to say too.
Yep, the constant reminder isn't that we're alive isn't necessary. I've tried having conversations with doctors about pain meds: they keep the pain in the background enough so that I can get on with whatever counts for my life. Not having them reduces life to something small and mean, and my life is small enough as it is.
It works in fantasy stories, it's a good line in settings where your agency can be stripped from you. Be it through sci-fi technology or some sort of dark magic or even fiddling with alternate planes of existence, where you can be reduced to a walking drone with no thoughts of your own, no warmth of happiness or ennui of past memories, the pain is a reminder that the character is still going and still able to fight the good fight
It breaks down in real life. The pain is not another obstacle on our way to the antagonist, real life pain IS the antagonist
We think about the phrase "you need the bad times to appreciate the good" a lot.
Usually with the framing of how the people who say it are typically way too up their own privileged asses to know what true constant suffering is like. When a "bad time" for them is a mild inconvenience to us in comparison, because *_our_* "bad times" are Hell.
@@TARINunit9 's kind of just... agonist, really.
I actually had no idea about your chronic pain, somehow, but the fact you've maintained a consistent upload schedule and a WRESTLING CAREER is FUCKING METAL!!
You dont do in-depth reveiw like this often, but Mouthwashing REALLY deserves an extended dissection
yes!! i loved a video like this (not that I dislike the industry analysis/etc. types)
Definitely. I loved that Waluigi video from a few years back. Steph's analytical vids are always a treat.
This is a great companion to a video by a relatively new RUclipsr BeamBuddy about the game.
I mean, she does so written reviews now (again). I'm sure she has an article on this if you wanted to see more of her thoughts
Agreed, it seems like a master class in disturbing messaging.
But honestly if I watch any more footage of it I think I'm gonna throw up.
When I was a teenager in high school, I was a t a bowling alley with classmate on like a field trip or something, there were some mentally disabled people in the lane next to us, and one of my classmates was annoyed that they were out in public where she had to see them. The idea that this is something a person can feel is completely disgusting. The fact that people can think so little of a disabled person that they want to be able to pretend these human being do not exist was jarring.
I’m a support worker, and I’ve witnessed people reacting with visible disgust (one man actually said “Jesus Christ” in a disgusted tone when we simply walked by). It’s shockingly common.
The issue is, they are living embodiment what could happen to us all. One bad stroke, one bad accident and you suddenly find yourself in the same shoes. I usually cry because of this realisation. Others get angry.
You gotta remember that many folks on this planet look upon other people as things that range from inconvenient to sickening. They consider the world to exist for them alone, to cater to their desires, and the fact that they have to share it is a flaw. It is horrible. It is grotesque. And these fine humanoids delight in telling others exactly how they feel.
Which is kinda helpful. At least the rest of us know who to avoid.
im born disabled with an uncurable sickness and i understand not everyone will comprehend the situation,being judged will happen but no matter what the rule in life is to live for yourself not for others~its a show of confidence in yourself to be able to do that and yer gonna be happier for it
@@1IGG That's a really weird way to see things. They're not living embodiments of "what could happen" any more than all the bodies in graveyards are dead embodiments. They're just people, not walking cautionary tales.
I think I can see how it happened that nobody asked Curly questions in his disabled state: Anya was either too terrified of going against Jimmy's word or too nauseated to interact with Curly directly. Swansea probably didn't even want to go near the guy, too focused on his plan to save the intern kid, and Daisuke probably just kept his head down and followed orders. Maybe deep down they all just resented Curly for the alleged crime of intentionally crashing the ship and put aside their empathy in favor of letting him suffer as punishment. And Jimmy... well, I'm sure he was the driving force of their decision.
i see more people being ableist over the themes of this game than i do actually examining through the lens of disability so thank you for this - it was also the case for me that the immediate horror for me as another physically disabled person (muscle disorder that's resulted in spine disease, etc.) with this game was curly having pills forced down his throat, unable to fend for himself in his current state and having to rely on the "mercy" of an abusive individual... which is 80x more disturbing when you know that's a reality for far too many disabled people in the real world who are dependent on caregivers for their basic needs being fulfilled
i can't imagine how extensive burn scar survivors, people with limb differences, etc. feel about this game
I think to see Curly’s situation post crash as justice misses a larger point: Curly, through enabling, and not properly dealing with his friends actions, he ends up receiving the fallout of Jimmy’s decisions. He failed as a captain but does not deserve what has happened to him and that’s the point of enabling, you will end up being worse off, not the perpetrator.
Yup. It may be a consequence of his inaction, but that doesn’t mean the consequences are deserved or justified.
im am not surprised you are a gross looking person simon
@@princessaria
what a cowardly take karen
Aw man that whole bit about the dehumanization of disabled people really cut me to the core.
I was raised with the knowledge that a disability isn't a choice. Nobody wakes up one day and says "I want to be less capable and face constant inconvenience and struggle for basic tasks!". I was told that we sacrifice for those who have trouble or are incapable because no matter how inconvenient providing aid for them might be for us, it's 24/7 year round for them and they suffer way worse constantly. It shouldn't and never has been a question of "do you help the disabled" because I never considered it a question. It's just... What we're supposed to do. It's the default expected behavior. You aren't a saint for helping those too hurt to help themselves, but you are a devil for withholding aid or treating the people most afflicted as burdens or unwanted.
They didn't choose that, and if they had a choice it's not even a question they wouldn't want to be in the situation they're in. It's the least we can do to provide our more functional shoulders to ease *their* burdens.
It's kind of shocking that anyone thinks otherwise. But considering how literally the entire world has been celebrating the righteous execution of a health insurance CEO, I can't be surprised. (The only sad part about that story is that the Claim Denier was only able to get the one, if you ask me).
As a disabled person who is constantly treated as a burden, dehumanised, and at the mercy of an abusive caretaker, this comment brought me to tears. Thank you for being so empathetic and kind. I wish there were more people like you out there.
Funny thing, I've heard of situations where it was a choice, it's just not a choice you can reverse.
People have 'transabled' themselves by blinding themselves. I'm willing to bet others have taken the other routes thinking we have secretly privileged cushy lives when we're barely making enough to pay bills if we get the help at all.
If I had the choice, after knowing nothing else, I'd like to pick Not please.
*He only got one _so far!_
there's kind of this... weird space where caregivers get burnout and are often called monsters by the people who they're taking care of. and the reasons behind that are complicated: sometimes the system punishes people for trying to take the time and care for others by denying them work or resources that they need to survive. sometimes the accommodations people need haven't become something that the government or corporations feel pressured to make affordable, and a caregiver has to make financial choices to keep an entire household going in a way that nobody likes. sometimes the person under their care was abusive and can still be abusive but for various reasons they're pressured into a situation where they're required to give aid. When that happens tempers fray and hurtful words are said, time may have to be balanced between care and household survival, accommodations can only go so far, sickening feelings of guilt rest in the pit of one's stomach, and it's hard not to agree with the title of "monster" if the person being taken care of lashes out at them. And that's exactly the problem, one's not a saint for doing what should be something where the whole system pitches in, but by god one becomes a devil for being fallible and human.
But that's not the twist of the knife. that little stab is that the people who can't afford good, professional caretakers are often chronically injured, ill, or on some axis of marginalization themselves. Even professional caregivers get paid depressingly little compared to other medical fields, while at the same time requiring practically the same certifications and training , all while facing extreme burnout and mental illness from a wide range of reasons, depending on the field they're in. where i live everybody in the apartment suffers from a disability, chronic illness, mental health issue, and like, none of us are neurotypical. Arguments are common, people will try to make accommodations for their needs that trample over other people's needs, resources are stretched thin, nobody can eat the same food, and three people are crammed into a space meant for two, tops.
But we all know the core issue is 90% not each other, but that we're all playing with a bad hand of cards. If we could be able to live in a proper house we'd have some space, if we had space we could plan out our budget better and buy ahead. If the government paid us a fair stipend or even acknowledged that some of us were disabled, we could gain access to the accommodation devices and services we need. If the government made those services and devices affordable we'd have better quality of life with what money we had. If disability was not an all-or-nothing thing, but as varied as disability itself was, the system would be manageable and three people wouldn't need to cram themselves into an apartment trying to keep each other in a vaguely surviving condition, some of us would be able to live on their own, while others could choose to get live-in care or be a part of a community tailored to their needs.
But the system isn't like that, and most likely won't ever be like that in our lifetimes, so the three of us remain, surviving, continuing on, making monsters of each other.
Generally what I've encountered is people thinking it's not that bad and I'm just lazy. Not that I choose to be in pain constantly and fighting my body at nearly every turn to just get it to do basic things, that that's just not the truth.
I wish.
And despite being also told not being active doesn't help, universe help you if you can go on a short walk or along with errands at any point/points in your situation but can't really do anything productive. Because apparently that's the absolute proof you could and just don't.
Hey steph, i think I'm gonna skip mouthwashing. I have cerebral palsy and struggle with everything you mentioned in this video. Curly is one of my worst fears. I also deal with people seeing me as an inspiration when I'm out and about running errands. so thanks Steph for continuing to scream that disabled people are people full stop.
As a british citizen that wasnt diagnosed with autism till i was 27 and was forced to find work while suffering a prolonged period on mutism caused by autistic burnout from prioor jobs that final section about needing to both appear disabled enough while not causeing trouble for others hit hard.
On 2 separated occasions i burnt out from work and was unable to speak for months on end, i was forced onto job seekers allowance after it was determind that i was not diabled enogh for disability allowance. I was told repatededly i had to widen my seqarch area for jobs despite being anable to drive and having significant difficultly using public transport due to being an able to speak. I was told that phone interviews and interpreters could be aranged for me. Yet not one person said "how is this person that can barly even wisper supposed to perform any sort of job?" Week after wek i was forced to go into the JSA offices and conform the fact that i still could not speak and that i was still jumping through the hoops they demanded of me.
These days i work in food service a job I very much enjoy at times as such the themes of corparate greed and employee surpression are what jump out to me when experiancing Mouthwashing. The presure to perform the limits on breaks ect even so the silent horror of curly being unable to express his own desires while being forced to endure the whims of the crew still reminds me of those times.
Im 38 and was diagnosed with autism a couple months ago. Its crazy how much all of a sudden everything just clicks and makes sense in terms of why work is so hard. I'm a nurse and have burned through so many jobs because the people I work with find me weird and, because they cant fire you for being weird, decide its 'unprofessionalism' Its the social side of the workplace I just can't deal with. I'm fine with patients, frankly I'm brilliant at what I do, but as soon as I have to make small talk with colleagues I fall to pieces.
JSA is fuckin horrendous. Its so deliberately obtuse to try and stop scammers that ironically the only people who would find the system remotely accessible are professional scammers.
@@fromthedumpstertothegrave3689
I cant even being to count the number of times co-workers have complained about my "tone" when i was simply stressed or distracted. I love my work i love feeding people and seeming them enjoy their food but, there are some aspects that are just infuriating. Especially the double standard of go take and break if you are feeling stressed out by a customer but never walk away from a customer cause thats rude.
Also the number of people i saw that were clearly just loking to cash a cheque at the JSA was ridiculous while i was hit with a warning for failing to show up once when i was sick with food poisoning.
41 here and diagnosed this year and not far off the same. I had 3 massive burnouts. Post the diagnosis has put a lot of things into place but still can be a struggle at times work and colleague wise and public transport (ironically work in that train industry/IT)
Anyway wish you both the best and it was good to read your experiences. Thank you for sharing.
@@cavetendobiggles1841 burnout as a prelude to getting a diagnosis later in life seems to be a pretty common thing. Its that odd thing of being just normal enough to muddle through for 30 or 40 years before something finally snaps.
Theres a book untypical by Pete Wharmby a guy who was a teacher and got diagnosed in his 30's, I'd highly recommend it as reading for anyone you know who you want to understand the autistic experience. Though if I'm honest personally I found the tone a little entitled. By entitled I mean this is a guy who had no idea about autism or any idea he was autistic till he was in his 30's and the book has an undercurrent of him being indignant that more people don't understand autism, he makes a lot of valid points but it seems somewhat pot calling the kettle black, its still a good account of the kinda challenges people face though.
I got my ASD diagnosis at age 31. But there were talents I found I could do because of the analaytical, logical and pattern-based nature of my mind. When Visual Pinball came into being at the start of the 2000s, one of those was design. I had a knack for plotting out my own pinball games and bringing them into being, and by studying the work and approach of past designers, I could learn everything about geometry, and why certain elements stuck, what could be counted on to work and what couldn't, and what the defining balance between ambition and practicality could be at that time. All I needed to move forward was the chance to work on creating a real machine.
Then Andrew Heighway found me, and together we formed a friendship, then a potential working partnership, then after a few years, we were ready to come down to Wales to start up his company, with myself as his designer.
...And that's when his deficiancies as a manager, skimping on his homework and refusal to take any responsibility for any mistakes came to the forefront. It was when he started using my ASD as a weapon against me to get what he wanted. He never made my 'employment' official despite bring me down there himself. He had never intended to. He would threaten me with everyone else's jobs and denigrate my condition ("you were rotting away in Northern Ireland when I found you") to keep me under his control whenever I tried to bring anything up, such as having a contract or any form of security. (I have recordings I took secretly of the meetings. You don't want to hear them.) We got two machines out where I was the 'lead designer', including the highly-regarded Alien, and made progress on the third (Queen) which would eventually be finished and released later after we closed. But the decline lasted for five years, with myself never receiving a penny and with no way to disengage. But everybody there knew my position. And Andrew resented that they did. Five years before his chief investors finally forced him out and tried to make a go of what he left behind, but there was too much baggage and too many hurdles to climb. So they took the company assets, liquidated the company with debts of 2.2 milion dollars.
To this day there is still work of mine being used for manufacturing which, by any form of logic, by rights never actually belonged to the company before it changed hands. I could ask for some form of renumeration (lord knows the the HMRC got involved, and even got so far as proposing a figure). But I never have. I'm terrified to after years of financial and psychological abuse. And since my self-esteem had been profoundly compromised beforehand, you can only imagine how much I despise myself for my own 'weakness' and 'uselessness' now, at age 55.
I'm autistic, I have ADHD, I have depression, I have fibromyalgia (chronic pain condition) and several other disabilities that make my day to day life a nightmare sometimes, so when I say the speech you gave at the end of the video moved me to tears, I mean it.
Thank you for being such an outspoken and proud advocate for the disabled and for showing that we aren't helpless, that we are human beings and deserve respect.
You represent everything good about professional wrestling, and you do that in the face of crippling pain, and you represent your fellow neurodivergent and physically disabled individuals with strength and courage that few have.
Thank GOD for Commander James Stephane Sterling.
I have fibromyalgia and Audhd to and depression. Very well put.
It truly can be a nightmare.
Digital hug
I wish you and myself luck. Just remember, even when you feel alone there are others that do understand and care, we're just quiet.
@@matthewcharles9813 Stay strong friend. *returns digital hug.*
Another aspect of the horror is the flip side of the coin you are describing. My mother ended up being a caregiver for her own parents, who ended up living quite a long time. My Grandfather made it past 100.
I would talk to her and I could sense the resentment she had for having to take care of them, but also the guilt for feeling that resentment. Thing is, she was only in the house she was in and the situation she was in to take care of them. She wanted to move to a smaller place, to a warmer climate, to enjoy her retirement years, but it was all put on hold to wait until her own parents died. She could not bear the idea of leaving them in anyone else's care, but it also left her feeling trapped in a similar way.
One cannot help but feel resentful towards the people who are the source of such, but many will feel the awful guilt of having those feelings. No one wants to be that terrible person, and they know the person going through the pain has it worse, but feelings cannot be controlled and you are in a position where you keep asking yourself, when have you done enough? When is it okay to consider yourself, even at their detriment?
Someone you care about being in pain poisons your own ability to be happy. As empathetic creatures, we cannot help but feel like that. And those feelings are often bottled because letting the person in pain hear it will only make it worse for them, and they don't deserve that.
Caregivers should always make sure they have their own therapist, because they are going through stuff too.
And if you are worried that your own pain is causing a good caregiver trouble, remember this: Even if they are feeling pain and inconvenience and suffering, it is because they value you. They believe you are worth it.
I am about to turn 50 in a couple days, and I have never lived anywhere other than with my parents. Originally that was because my father and maternal grandmother passed in my senior year in high school and my mother going from a 4-person house to a 1-person when she'd never lived alone would have driven her mad. Then it got to the point where I was basically the manual labor while she did the shopping and cooking and the bill-paying. Little by little those jobs became mine. She left home less and less, only for family holidays and doctor's visits. She started having one problem after another, losing weight, getting weaker. She was getting old. But I was the only one she could rely on. So it was all me. And that meant that I was tethered to a retired old woman who was paranoid about anything happening to me, but who also didn't want anyone coming in the house because I've always been messy (probable ADHD) and as she got older she both got messy and held on to far too much stuff. If I went away to work a show, I would have her tell me on the phone the evening that I left "I wish you were home already." And she would say things like she was counting the hours until I came home. If I went out with friends, she would call asking when I was coming home. If I wasn't home at that time, she'd start calling repeatedly. If I went out to anything, her first question would be "What time are you coming home?" If I told her while I was out that plans had changed and had an updated later ETA for being home, she'd express sadness and make me feel bad for staying out. This was something that lasted YEARS. Not 1 or 2... more like FIFTEEN or so. So my social life was... not very prominent. Which is amusing considering that people talk about how I'm so extroverted and whatnot. But how could I have a social life when I kept having to answer phone calls about when I'd be home, who was there, etc? (Oh, she'd also ask for people's phone numbers so she could call them if I didn't answer) And love life? No chance of that, either. Hell, I haven't even been able to have a job for years because I needed to be home to take care of her.
I know my social and emotional growth have been severely stunted because of it all, and I know I had a number of arguments with her about it because she would guilt-trip me tremendously and not even acknowledge it with lines like "You're all I have in the world" and even saying a few times if something happened to me, she'd end herself. She did a number on me bit by bit over the years. There's a part of me that is not well, and may not be well for quite some time.
Even so... she was Mom. She never meant me any harm. She was terrified of being alone. She never wanted to see her son hurt. So she did everything she could to make sure I never could screw up, even if it drove me crazy. She wanted to know I was alright. And even with all the stress she caused me, I loved her. There was never any malice in her. She always tried to do what was best for me. And eventually, the scales flipped. It was all on me to take care of her. I had to help her more and more and more. And then at the very end, she was at home for hospice care, unable to speak or move or eat or drink. But I told her everything that was in me. I let her know the struggles, I let her know I loved her, I let her know that I'd be okay. And when the time came, it was just.... peace.
I haven't quite figured out my life yet. I have a great support structure, though. And I'll be leaning on them as the months go on. I'm actually picking up the certificates from the court tomorrow about the dispersal of her estate. The process of things switching over to all me has been happening slowly but surely. I'm... I'll be alright.
But even so, it's obvious there's parts of me that I know aren't alright, parts that haven't been alright for years. And yeah, therapy would probably be great, if I could afford it, which I can't right now. But you know what? I don't think I'd do a single damn thing different. She did a lot for me, I did a lot for her, and now it's time for me to do things for me.
I started this off as both commiseration and agreement with you, understanding what your mom went through, and agreeing on the toll it can take, and it just kind of morphed into... something. I'm not sure what. But between this video and this comment, maybe it was something I needed.
There is a phenomenon known as caregiver fatigue, in which the caregiver is essentially forced to dehumanizes themselves in order to care for someone who cannot do it for themselves. I was in that boat for over 20 years, caring for my ill mother. Youngest of 8 kids. None of the older 7 had the time, had the patience, not one of them ever once asked, in 20 years, if I was ever okay. It was just, "Oh, she's got this, I can go live my life." I took care of my mother because I loved her, and she suffered immensely, in a way that no one ever should have to. But the abuse she put me through--actual abuse, in the most literal definition of the word--left a mark on me that will never go away, and made me resent her deeply. At what point are we allowed to be 'selfish' and care for ourselves first, or at all? When does caring for someone stop becoming that, and start becoming enabling an abuser? There are many, many shades of gray in these sorts of scenarios, and things get very complicated very quickly.
By the by, I'm also disabled according to US law, but having learned even a fraction of what the process would take to prove that to the government has convinced me that I'm just going to go to my grave suffering in silence, because the powers that be will very much assume that I am not 'disabled enough'. My biggest fear is not being believed, and I'm not about to parade myself in front of a bunch of people whose entire job it is to assess how much of a liar I am. No thanks.
Your insight is truly a gift to read. That whole part about pain poisoning your happiness really resonates because it really is a horrible cycle to find oneself in.
"When is it okay to consider yourself, even at their detriment?" is such a hard thing to navigate. It gets overwhelming, even worse knowing you can't afford to fall apart because someone needs your care. And resentment grows on both sides, too. It's only normal in the face of the helplessness and hopelessness illness can bring but it does get in the way of already hard everyday tasks. In the end, I think it's important to acknowledge what is being resented is the illness itself.
I've read that, in America, it would be cheaper to accept every disabled support request, than it would to go through all the jumps and hoops to make sure it's required. Wouldn't be surprised if the same could be said here.
It would be cheaper in every country. It's because bureaucracy and checking info costs additional money on top of the money you spend on the request/benefits. That's why some people advocate for universal basic income - because it would literally be cheaper to give everyone in a given country a guaranteed income they could live off of, instead of spending money on bureaucracy to make sure it only goes to the people who "deserve" it.
It wouldn't surprise me, systems are bloody expensive. Its why paracetamol costs 50p if you go and buy it but a prescription costs the taxpayer about £30.
The thing about people thinking you're pulling one over on them... Godsdammit, that happens a lot (especially when your disability is invisible). I always feel a hurdle when having to bring up accommodations based on disability. When you have to explain to people that yes, being tired very much affects your functioning even if they do not see the difference. They cannot see how much energy 'that simple task' takes out of you and how that hinders your capacity to do that other 'simple task' you had planned. Or they take your skill at 'hiding' your disability as evidence that it isn't that bad really, they didn't even notice.
Great vid, Steph, Stay strong, everyone.
I had a brief work placement with a charity for people with aquired brain injuries. A lot of the people there said the hardest thing about ABI's is that they dont 'look' disabled so people think they're just being difficult.
I've got autism and honestly I find the same thing. I just don't understand indirect communication/ hinting/ passive aggressiveness. If someone says "Do you think its cold?" then looks at an open window I'll just go "nah, I'm alright" and then *I'm* the asshole. If somone just says "I'm cold, can you close the window" I'll just be like "Sure, no worries" It makes basic stuff an absolute minefield.
@@fromthedumpstertothegrave3689 Absolutely. Neurodivergence, brain injuries, chronic fatigue. I'm not saying those with invisible disabilities have it worse, but we do deal with different issues.
NT people: "Oh, you have struggles due to neurodivergence? Weirdo. I'm going to avoid you."
Also NT people: "Oh, you're trying to fit in by pretending you don't have struggles due to neurodivergence? Then I guess you don't need any support or consideration whatsoever!"
All too many people subscribe to the worldview of, "If I can't see it, it doesn't exist".
In my darkest moments, I've thought about what if I severely physically harmed myself (blinded, lost a limb, paralyzed, something) so that finally the world around me would understand. I've got severe mental health issues, and the main visible aspect is that I sleep a lot, which has eventually led to multiple romantic partners over the years deciding that I'm a "burden" and "lazy" and that if I would "just be awake at normal times things would be better". But I just can't. I also know that if I had a very physical problem, I could get disability much more easily. Right now I dont even know if it's worth the fight and struggle. I can already see a judge saying "PTSD, but you were never in the military? I don't believe you, how dare you mock our troops. You just need to toughen up"
@ mental health is tough because people don’t really get how difficult it can be unless you are visibly, what is known clinically as, proper batshit mental.
There is a line that really rubs me, "our worst moments don't make us monsters" yeah, and our best moments dont make us heroes
A line like that is a not-so-subtle way of telling you "this character? They're a monster."
Because what else would make someone a monster? Is a person not a monster just because they _only_ committed only _one or two_ atrocities, because it has to be a full-on _way of life_ before a person qualifies for that moniker? Definitely something only a monster would say.
Anya said that first tho
I mean, it makes sense in context as Anya's mantra: she's trapped on a ship with her abuser, taking care of a man who ignored her problems and who she believes tried to kill the entire crew by crashing the ship. She has to believe that they aren't completely awful people because otherwise it would be nearly impossible for her personally to cope with the position she's in.
I don't think the game is telling us to buy into that statement ourselves so much as illustrating something about her.
@@olivia7782 Yeah, this is what GETS to me: people forget the context of who says what and WHY when they repeat the sentences.
Jimmy repeating Anya's line is him stealing YET ANOTHER thing from her and twisting it to make himself out to be a hero. People need to pick up on that.
They need to also pick up on how hypocritical Curly is about "safety"-- he keeps leaving things where they're "unsafe", and then flips out when ANYA does it: I'm using my paraphrased notes on this game but "the kitchen knife, per Pony Express regulations, should be kept locked away in a code scanner-only area/box.". You find that one out when you're Curly, check the knife's inventory description and it says he SHOULD have it locked away, but he isn't. The axe is also supposed to be kept locked, but he gives it to Swansea to keep on himself. He's fine with things being "unsafe" as long as it benefits him.
For Anya, the line feels like learned helplessness-- like what girls are taught to do to "socialize properly"-- to compromise, to be patient, to endure, to hope for the better, to stay passive... There's a shitton of loaded social expectations in THAT being her mantra-- that she's supposed to believe she shouldn't judge someone for what they've done to her, that she's supposed to be forgiving. That someone who'd crash the ship to get rid of her and someone who'd SA her aren't monsters.
It becomes a coping method, but it comes from SOMEWHERE and the overarching character traits are that EVERYONE has some heavy baggage they're saddled with before they even start the trip, and that they don't see past the others' masks because they're too busy drowning under their own.
I've heard it described as "our worst moments don't make us monsters, but if we keep repeating them and not improving, what _do_ they make us?"
God this video hurts for all the right reasons. As someone on the autism spectrum I can appear "normal", avoid being an inconvenience for people. At least, until my sensory issues with loud noises causes me to feel anxiety and physical pain. Then I'm suddenly being too sensitive, too weak. I've had more than one member of my family tell me that I just need to get over my sensitivity. Hell, there have been times where I'm close to having an emotional meltdown in a very noisy restaurant but can't leave because someone wants dessert. At those times I truly feel alone. That's why I'm glad for videos like these that scream out to the world that how it treats disabled people is not okay. Thank god for Sterling.
I live in Texas. Had a herniated disk, injured at my last job, and had to apply for government benefits. (I mean I also have over-active adrenaline, by-product of social anxiety and autism, that has me ridiculously exhausted for days when it thins out, but nobody gives a shit about that.) Now I had a damn good non-profit lawyer, and it took me two years to even be heard on this, and when I finally was, the judge, who was forced to award the benefits due to an unrelated issue (and a person who was supposed to find a 40s or 50s job I could do to deny me benefits on NOT doing her job) berated me for I think 15 minutes straight until I was in tears. He did absolutely everything in his power to convince ME that I was gaming the system, that I didn't deserve it, that I needed to just toughen up a little like he had to when he was younger. I feel like the whole disability benefits system is just DESIGNED to break you and encourage others to punish you for it. Now that I'm on it, I found a way that I could maybe break free of it, and I'm going to try, but oddly the system also seems to be designed to make it harder to do THAT. You don't want me to have the benefits, you've got whole departments dedicated to finding reasons to kick me off, and you also don't want me to be able to get off of them and go back to work? MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MIND!
@@mystbunnygaming1449 it really feels like simple bullying at this point. It's irrational on purpose then they gas light you into thinking you're the weird one.
I hate it so much.
Ableism
America is trash
If the system allowed you to go back into a sufficiently productive live by your own will, it would need to admit to themselves that you weren't a leech.
And that they were terrible people for stopping you from getting help.
America. The #1 joke of a country in the world 🤡🤡
My ex who I was with for 8 years recently said "I can't afford a human pet" as if my disability is so blinding that none of the good I do exists
Some people trully come out of mouthwashing thinking Curly deserved it? That's the most disturbing thing I've heard in a while.
A lot of the discussion is about how the helplessness of Curly post-crash acts as an ironic parallel to his passivity pre-crash; because he sat back and watched, it led to a situation where he was unable to do much /besides/ sit back and watch. People are indelicate and often dont really know how to discuss that without framing it or phrasing it like some kind of comeuppance, without really thinking critically about the implications of what theyre saying.
There ARE also people who whole-heartedly think he "deserves" it, but people who are callous enough to feel and say that with their entire chest are (thankfully) more of a minority.
The community at large does have a pretty visible problem with casual ablism though, but its more in the dehumanization angle than the 'disability as punishment' one.
It's part of the 'caused by karma' mentionned in the vid, so many people LOVE to judge the ill-fortunate, rather seeing them as the 'monster' that deserved it, the truth/empathy be damned.
The horror of Curly's situation is really... underplayed (?) by the fandom, like, there is pity, and of course almost everyone agrees that no one deserves his fate (or worst of all, like you said, the ones who think that his pain is some sort of justified karma). But thank you for talking about the situation from *his* perspective. When I first watched the game, the ending left me absolutely horrified, Jimmy put him in the cryopod? So he would either be forced to live, endure his torment, maybe survive, or much more likely, wake up in twenty years and die of asphyxiation, starvation, or dehydration, knowing his friends' bodies are rotting on the floor. I've never seen anyone else horrified by Curly being put into the pod, they take it as a good thing. But for me it is just Jimmy prolonging his torment.
I guess, I think the fact that Mouthwashing has created this much discourse is just a proof of how stellar the writing is. We really can't stop talking about it.
Being honest, Jimmy never waited at ALL to see if the cryopod actually worked. He shot himself to preserve the idea of himself being the hero who "saved" Curly but if the pod malfunctioned, then Curly is pretty dead.
Everything jimmy does during the events of the game are done with the aim of convincing himself that he’s a hero. I think he only puts curly in the pod to create a “happy ending” to his story before he kills himself.
@@cuv9315 The first thing I thought when I saw Curly in the pod...
No, it was a lot of things at once.
Curly is stuck there. He can't do a goddam thing. Jimmy, the man who decided to be the most irredeemable person to exist, took a cowards way out after ruining everyone's lives. "I'm doing it! I'm doing one last good thing!" Jimmy says, condemning Curly to an awful fucking fate.
Sure. The pod might work. But what then. He wakes up, trapped in it? Unable to escape?Unable to Move? Exist in agony until he dies from his injuries? In the end, Jimmy treats the last person alive he has to abuse as a way to get his own... closure, I guess, before he ends his life. Leaving Curley to suffer ever more in that pod.
I felt awful for curly when I saw that. And my utter hatred for Jimmy grew even more. Curly might have fucked up, but he didn't deserve that. No one does.
yeah! out of everything in the game, that ending is what's stuck with me the most since watching someone stream it. he just used curly's suffering to feel good about himself one last time... and now curly's well and truly alone, stuck out in space with no real hope of ever being "rescued" in a giant metal tomb filled with the corpses of his friends. does that time just... stop for him? is he granted any sort of peace in cryosleep, or will even his dreams turn into nightmares of all the horrible things he's endured and regrets he now has? it's all just so awful to think about, but i appreciate that awfulness, because it speaks to the strength of the narrative and how emotionally affected by it i still am, lol.
I've always thought that the true horrific irony at the end is how Jimmy says "I'm taking responsibility" while putting him in the cryopod, because he is literally doing the exact opposite. If Curly was 1. actually rescued within the 20 years the cryopod works, 2. survives being removed from the cryopod and presumably given actual proper medical care, and 3. recovers to the point where he is capable of communicating; Jimmy has basically left *him* to take responsibility for everything Jimmy did. He is the sole survivor, therefore leaving the burden of explaining everything that happened to him. Everyone is busy talking about the horror of "what if he's awake in the cryopod" or "he probably won't even be rescued/he will die shortly after rescue in that condition," but I think the most tragic outcome is if everything works out how Jimmy wants and Curly is genuinely the only survivor. How would you begin to explain what happened? What would it be like having to explain that your inaction lead to the drawn out deaths of 4 people? Obviously there's having to deal with the trauma of all that, and the fact that an injury like that would definitely leave him permanently disabled to some degree regardless of recovery which would change his life permanently, but imagine having to deal with that while also having to endure things like press coverage, interogation for disaster reports, potential legal consequences (would Pony Express be held criminally responsible for this? Would HE be held criminally responsible?? Would he have to serve as a witness in a lawsuit???), etc. Not to mention that Swansea apparently had kids, and Daisuke was basically a kid himself and shared that he worries his mom would blame herself. Do you think he would have to explain everything that happened to them? Was he even aware of everything that happened, or would he remember it at all? Would it be better or worse to have to explain that he didn't remember or see what happened, leaving questions unanswered for their families. Presumably if he was rescued then the entire ship would have been recovered, and considering they were running low on oxygen it's likely that the bodies would have not decomposed very much. There would be autopsies, causes of death revealed, meaning they would probably know that Daisuke died from an ax wound, that Swansea was shot, that Anya overdosed, that Jimmy shot himself, and of course that they were all so starved for resources that they were literally drinking mouthwash; would he be able to explain what led to these horrible deaths, such as who dealt the final blow to Daisuke and why, or who shot Swansea? And I think the biggest and most important question would be whether he would explain everything that Jimmy did. Would he shoulder the blame himself, not share everything that led up to the crash and make up a story to explain it all? Or would he let everyone know what a monster Jimmy was, thus revealing how he enabled that monster even if he didn't intend to? No matter what he could explain, he does not come out as the hero in the end; either he's the villain who caused the crash, or he stood by and let it happen despite being the captain. Trauma victims often don't remember everything that happened before or after they were injured, or their memories become distorted and fragmented, so maybe he would genuinely begin to believe he was the one who did it and he would have no idea why. For that matter, what if he can't remember any of it? Would he look at the evidence left behind and come to a different conclusion than what actually happened? What would that conclusion be? Do you think he would realize Jimmy's involvement or would he genuinely assume he was solely responsible somehow, since the evidence seems to point to it (you need the captains key to redirect the ship)?
Sorry for rambling, I guess my point is that the ending of Mouthwashing felt like a perfect conclusion to me because it's simultaneously really open ended and also none of the outcomes are anything short of horrifying, even the "good" ones. The "taking responsibility" line was perfect bitter irony, because even in the end, Jimmy is still leaving Curly to clean up his mess.
Mouthwashing felt like a journey into the horror of reality. Of things people deal with every day and every hour and every minute. It has the backdrop of a futuristic science fiction, but everything in it could happen. Probably has already happened. Even together. True, the more mini-game type areas can be frustrating, but the mechanics of them do help tell the story. One section involving escaping something Jimmy is responsible for, and if you just run forward and don't look at it, it doesn't bother you. But that is Jimmy avoiding responsibility. When that clicked for me... I don't know. The whole game was the most terrifying thing I've played since SOMA.
I wonder, then, if the phrase "I hope this hurts" is there to indicate that they hope this game hurts you. Because if it doesn't, something might be not okay with you. Humanity can be awful, but playing this and feeling the horror, the fear, and the pure terror of a situation you can't escape is a good reminder that you yourself are human. And what you thought was okay, really might not be.
That why I'm obsessed with it. It's a realistic sci fi horror.
@@Dalton_Boardman2000 Same, and I think for the early fans (before the fujoshis and tiktok got in) it was the same too. I saw so much good, reflective shit come out of that period up to just before the second Q&A, before it really blew up, about how people realized that this is banality of evil the game: how banal jerks like Jimmy are, how banal enablers like Curly are, how banal corrupt (Dragonbreath is a company that also provides Pony Express with the nutrition pouches and the automixer, and they're hauling its products around in space, tell me that doesn't stink) corporate employers like Pony Express are, how banal the entire NARRATIVE is-- you have one path, you can't ever change anything because the only points where this story could have changed are all out of your reach and the characters you're stuck with are committed to their ways and won't change in time, even if you can see the trainwreck and want to stop it-- the banality of powerlessness that the narrative inflicts on you.
The whole game is just this tiny little microcosm of all the shitty real things that happen all over the world; the only sci-fi thing is that it's set in space and the AI is competent enough to drive something without accidents.
18:44 maybe i misremembering but I could’ve sworn Anya is the one character who vocalizes that she feels uncomfortable keeping curly alive and in pain (also debatably she doesn’t like forcing him to take the pills because it reminds her of how jimmy was implied to have forced knock out drinks on her to assault her and the sound design when curly is forced pills are very much a choice that evoked assault)
Yeah, it sounded like you were forcing him to swallow the pills, either because he refuses to take them or because he literally *can't* due to injuries to his throat.
Anya likely doesn’t do anything to stop him because I mean of course she wouldn’t. She’s fucking terrified of him.
Anya does vocalize she's uncomfortable prolonging his suffering. It's also implied she's doing it because Jimmy wants Curly alive as "emergency food", to punish him ("I hope this hurts"), and because he's a buffer to protect Jimmy's ego (constantly blaming him for the crash in the first place, using his "good judgment" to absolve himself of responsibility).
Yeah, I believe Anya is outwardly the most sympathetic of his plight from what little we see of Jimmy's perspective. Ironically she's also the one least able to stand up for Curly due to her being terrified of Jimmy (rightfully so). Also ironically, I have to wonder if the framing from Jimmy's perspective of the fact we only ever see Anya (not the rest of the crew) speak sympathetically of Curly means that, to him, her care and concern is seen as weak and one of the many reasons he doesn't respect her. He respects the other two to an extent, so never acknowledges their empathy or concern.
@@Spamhard Yeah, when he yells at Anya he does say "I've entertained your sentimentality up until now."
I was the one who had to take care of my mom when she was on her deathbed, thanks to fucking brain cancer. the cries for morphine, and other painkillers... It took months to get those out of my head. I was grieving for her before she even passed away. she was luckily on palative care, meaning not to extend her life as much as possible, but just to ease the pain. It got to the point that a few of my neighbors pitched in to give her care, because I was getting to the point that I couldn't due to running myself ragged.
Sometimes, the most humane thing you can do is let someone go. ._. not to prolong their suffering. I can't really look at curly, He reminds me so much of my mom on the hospital bed at home. Granted, she wasn't bandaged up like him... but the situation is just... I'm sorry.
I was the sole caregiver for my mother at the end of her life a few months ago when she came back home for hospice. I watched as she wasted away, unconscious, unable to eat or drink or move or open her eyes. I'd been used to taking care of her for the last few years as she got out of the house less and less, but now I was just sitting around waiting for the end.
Weirdly enough, it ended up being a comfort. I got to tell her all the things I wanted to say. I know she could hear me. I can't prove it, but I know. I confided to her, I complained to her, I yelled at her, I cried to her, and I let her know I loved her and that I'll be alright. I was able to let her go in the end. I'm sorry for your struggles and your pain. I can't understand to the same extent, but I can understand in a way. I don't know if there's anything I could say to make it better, but just know there's at least one person out there who can commiserate with you.
Perfectly encapsulated with Curly being the poster child of this game, giving "creepy" vibes, when in reality he is the most vulnerable person in the game and the one who suffers the most.
I kinda like the way it plays with the trope of the "main monster" generally being the face of an indie horror game, so going into it without context you're like "I bet this is the scary guy that chases you" and are then completely blind sided when it becomes immediately obvious early on that that is Not The Case Here. It primes you to fear this character and then it's like "oh maybe the monster is us this time actually." Everything I saw second hand before watching a playthrough led me to expect an entirely different kind of game, which I think kind of improved the experience for me, having that "oh this isn't a jumpscare horror game, this is one of those horror games that make you feel terrible about being part of the human race isn't it" moment.
As disabled person I must admit I pretty abelist myself. The fact that I need financial aid fills me with self loathing which I have projected on to other disabled people. "oh so you think you deserve that help do you, no you should just be eternally grateful for that help, don't you recognize how much of a burden you are to others". These are thoughts that I'm burdened with and noone deserves that bs and it just furthers my own self loathing that I feel that way.
Hello, friend. I know it's hard to live through what society tells you is abject failure. But it's not your fault. If you could just magically do better, you would have done that long ago, right?
Perhaps it's not possible in your circumstances, but therapy might help you deal with your self-loathing.
If you can't get a therapist, please still try to be kind and compassionate with yourself and with others. Living is hard and painful, there's no reason to make it even harder.
@@BeremorI feel similarly, but I only apply the loathing to myself. The still-incomplete process of obtaining benefits really just makes me think "There are people FAR worse off than me, and THEY have to put up with this bullshit and over a year of waiting?" And even then, I have family to fall back on. What about people who don't? ~$950 a month is nothing.
Sorry, I just saw an opportunity to rant about how the government wants disabled people to toil in agony or die.
This is something that comes up so much, it is not unique. Like people with internalised sexism or homophobia, we have all been raised with a certain set of expectations to fit into a certain role. Our private identities do not match up with this, but we still carry the prejudice and rules, and we often unthinkingly serve as a reinforcer of the rules that don't apply to us.
One of the things used to try and counter lots of isms is representation, and this is usually achieved by taking a very attractive representative and showing them to have material success and glamour. A huge amount of our idealised selves comes from advertising really, and it's fascinating to me that disability representation kind of exposes a weird destructive trait in everything else, because we just can't quite slot disabled people into it. But it does mean we have to try harder and to think harder about how we deal with it on a personal level, and that isn't much fun. It really sounds like you're working on it though.
Still, your self loathing was given to you, it's not your fault, and one day you'll have read enough and experienced enough to let it go.
I don't think the game is claiming Curly deserves his disability, but I do think he is disabled and robbed of agency as a sort of analogy for his earlier choices. It's a bit uncomfortable.
My mother actually mentioned before back when predjudice against the disabled was MUCH worse that her sister who worked as a nurse pretty much hated the idea of letting these people "roam" for any amount of time and this wasn't just for physical disabilities but mental ones as well such as autism and my mother was disgusted by the attitude since her son (my brother) was on the autistic spectrum, but of course "Oh you're son is different of course", yeah she wasn't buying that bullshit.
I know this wasn't the exact focus on the video, but the topic of any people being born with something they didn't ask to be born with and then treated as though they were sub-human is still something we need to get better at, even if we are better than however they were like 20-30 years ago.
I'm a nurse and I'm constantly flabbergasted by the attitudes of some in my profession. Its actually astounding how narrow minded and lacking in empathy a lot of nurses are.
@@fromthedumpstertothegrave3689 I think the sad truth is, the medical profession can attract a lot of the Jimmy's of the world who want that self congratulatory matyr status. "How can I be a bad person when I spend my life caring for people?" It gives them a power over people
Disabled rights are all our rights. Disability is one minority demographic that anyone can find themselves part of at any time, and very likely will eventually join eventually if they live long enough. Anyone can suffer a debilitating illness or injury. Anyone. And the older we get, the more likely we are to accrue some kind of medical issue that effects our ability to do things most people take for granted. Attacking the rights of disabled people is not just cruel, it is an act of self-harm.
Also, Steph, if you see this, unlike ESA or UC, PIP isn't means tested, and you can apply for it regardless of your income. It's intended to compensate disabled people for additional expenses related to their mobility or personal care and place them on a more even financial footing than non-disabled people, so the only official criterion is your level of impairment. You can use it to pay for additional travel expenses, mobility aids, etc, or to help with the costs of a wheelchair or an adapted vehicle via the Motability scheme. The assessment process is obviously very unfair, cruel and stressful, though (this being Britain, after all).
I am disabled. When disabled, people accused me of wanting a free ride. I have dealt with worsening conditions and constantly questioned. My friend played this on stream for me on release. It hit on so many levels.
that line turned my stomach in a way that i couldn't fully articulate before this video. mouthwashing is a horrific game, but you're right: i think folks tend to focus more on other aspects of the story, which in turn further highlights how disabled people are overlooked and dehumanized by...everyone, really.
(i also genuinely assumed that the crew was keeping curly alive to face trial on earth in the event of their rescue, but i can see how people figured jimmy at least was on board with cannibalism.)
So far I’ve only seen you and one other creator tackle the disability side of the horror of mouthwashing and that is a shame
Thank you so much for this essay! This is brilliant. I have some thoughts but here are my bonafides (lol): Fellow back-pain sufferer here (fractured thoracic vertebra non-union, herniated cervical disc, buncha surgically repaired joints -- that's EDS, baby, woo!) with that depression/ADHD wombo combo. Relevant to this comment's contents, I'm a survivor of SA, too.
For me, Curly's helplessness - and the fact that he's unable to speak - are direct parallels with the situation he put Anya into, not as karmic retribution for that choice, but as a tragic consequence of his own inaction.
Their conversation about the dead pixel lays it out: Anya is always aware that it's present but Curly doesn't see it and replies that he's 'used to looking at the bigger picture,' and the dead pixel doesn't 'ruin the illusion' of things being peaceful/quiet (in the way that Jimmy later is primarily concerned about keeping Curly alive, but quiet). She mentions their arrival time being in approximately eight months -- around the time she'll be giving birth to the child produced by the assault. And Curly has nothing to say...just ellipses.
He refused to make Jimmy accountable. He could've put Jimmy in a cryopod until they arrived, but Jimmy is his friend going way back. Anya was so terrified of Jimmy that she took the pistol and hid it so that Jimmy wouldn't have it, and instead of resolving the issue with Jimmy, Curly confronts *Anya* about the pistol, instead. Anya is the burden...not Jimmy. And because of that...Jimmy ends up getting the gun, in the end, and I think that's why Curly laughs. He can see how the dominoes fell. It's not a good laugh.
None of this justifies the inflicted horror of Curly's existence after the crash, any more than Anya's suffering was justified. But his choice to remain silent on the subject of her assault even after he was made aware of it, and his refusal to take action against Jimmy, is reflected in his horrifying state: no limbs to act with, no lips to speak with, and no eyelids that he can close. Anya makes it very clear that she's uncomfortable with his situation, and so sick to her stomach about forcing it on him that she can't bear to give him the pills at all, but at that point, Jimmy is in full control. She's left in a terrorized position of being trapped with her abuser, a situation in which Curly joins her. He empowered the person who chooses what happens to him to make that choice, as he made it for Anya. He was given a choice, and the one he made while he was able to choose became one he no longer had the capacity to undo when his ability was stripped away. Anya never had a choice at all.
I don't want that to sound like I think Anya's suffering is greater or more important or noble than Curly's, because it isn't. Suffering is suffering. But as a chronic pain sufferer myself, my perception of Curly's situation is that he fell from a position of authority into the same situation as Anya because he refused to take action against the human wrecking ball that was Jimmy. His suffering is real and absolutely terrifying, but his situation could have been avoided had he taken action when he had the chance, which is a thing that I feel many disabled folks can't claim, so his situation is divorced somewhat from that reality for me, if that makes sense. For me, that gap is less about whether he was culpable or guilty of something, and not at all about whether it was 'deserved' -- it's more about how he refused to change a situation for someone else, and thus wound up entrapped by it himself - not as a demonstration of karmic retribution, but as a tragedy that emerged from a moral failure. He pretended something wasn't an issue so that it wouldn't be an issue for HIM, and then it became his issue. I suppose that difference might seem like splitting hairs to many people, which is fair.
Banger essay. I appreciate hearing perspectives from people about the game in general, but this one deserves a LOT of attention. It's really amazing what this writer managed to do in such a concise game and I love that we're all having conversations like this because of it. (edited bc I swapped names a few times oops)
This was a banger comment. I fucking love this game and the discussions people have about it.
Being a caregiver makes seeing disabled characters' treatment in horror (like Mouthwashing and Pearl) a special kind of distressing because there's no real way to convey the level of vulnerability disable people experience day to day, doubly so if they need a caretaker and to exploit that vulnerability to cause suffering is truly disgusting. The conversations around Curly have been... interesting, and I'm glad you made this video talking about him from a disable perspective
"Bluesky...it's better than Twitter."
That's an understatement! It's like saying a nice, warm, comfy bed is better than sharing a bed made of upturned plugs and Lego with Elon Musk.
and the lego pieces are those small spikes with no top pieces mixed with the minifigure swords
25:42 I literally teared up at this clip. Thank you...and thank god for you.
I straight up started crying eating my crispy chicken bites. 10/10 thank god for her.
"Well, to receive disability benefits, you have to jump through this hoop."
"But my disability means it is incredibly difficult to jump through a hoop, and if I did so, I would be in pain for a long time after it."
"I'm sorry, the rules are very clear, you must jump through the hoop to be eligible."
"Ok, it was difficult, but I jumped through the hoop."
"Oh, did you? Well, if you are able-bodied enough to jump through the hoop, then you're able bodied to work! No benefits for you!"
The speech in the ring made me cry. Thank you. Over 15 years of no time off from the pain and having a bad time mentally fighting the pain, etc, this video was something I needed.
It's difficult for one to know they lack perspective when they have no perspective. I'm one of those people who would have come away from the game thinking the "twist" was that Curly deserved it.
The way you communicated this game's themes and how they will speak to different groups of people makes it such a deeper experience. Your passion for helping people understand doesn't go unnoticed. Thanks Steph🤘
I had a classmate once who was outwardly disgusted by the very idea of even seeing a disabled person, like the idea made them feel icky and scrunch up their face. I haven't seen them in over a decade, but I sincerely hope they're a better person now.
Thank you for talking about this aspect of Mouthwashing, it's a big part of the horror of it that a lot of people just don't understand. I also have spine fuckery and will probably need a wheelchair at some point and the thought of being completely unable to move is one of my biggest fears. Not because of the possible pain, I deal with that every day, but the loss of agency. And having to just lie there alone with my own depression thoughts is absolutely horrifying.
Seen as a problem, as lesser, that feeling of "you aren't literally dying so you can do this" and having to live up to that until you literally end up in a hospital. And that's mental health from my end, let alone how horrifically treated people with physical disabilities and mental health troubles get.
And the way Anya goes...yeesh. Too many people I've known have been treated like she was and only one I've known who passed the way she did...
Fun fact Listerine one of the most popular brands of mouth wash was originally invented as a chemical to clean floors and serialize surgical equipment. Basically many people are cleaning their mouth with a fancy soap everyday.
Fun Fact most modern medicine and technology stem from experiments conducted in 1930s Germany. I'm 100% dead ass serious. Look it up
Very little of that fact is 'fun'.... 😅
Well, many care and cosmetic products contain surfactants which you could call 'soap' if you wanted. I don't want to ruin the fun but you're defining soap quite broadly here.
another fun fact: the mouthwash in the game can't even be classified as mouthwash. it's too unsubstantial to serve as food, not hydrating enough to serve as water and the amount of sugar renders it useless as disinfectant or as what it advertised itself to be. sorry i felt like making this comment
@kkima1265 That's what makes the content of their cargo even worse, not only did they carry a ridiculous amount of some crappy mouthwash, it was also useless for any other purpose they could think of. The devs really thought of something so useless it cranks up the absurd of the contrast between the events and the reason why they were on the ship in the first place to the max. They couldn't just stop at "aw haha so funny you carried some insignificant stuff but at least it will come in handy"
Being in the position of having to care for a disabled person wears away at your ability to empathize in a way that is horrifying in itself. I've seen people turn into monsters. I would love to live in a society where caring for the disabled is something to be celebrated and shared so nobody burns out like that.
Jimmy: S.A. abuser, liar, doomed the crew, power-hungry, kills everyone else.
The Internet: Somehow this is all Anya's and Curly's fault.
Excellent video btw! I do love this game.
I have literally never seen anyone throw blame on Anya. Curly being an enabler is one thought but 99% of people seem to agree Jimmy was the problem.
I mean curly deserves blame for sure. His betrayal of anya is the cause of a lot of the crew’s misfortune
@@sun-does-shine
Curly's refusal, or perhaps more accurately, his subconscious inability, to accept the darkness that existed inside his friend definitely played a role in the events that unfolded... but Curly discourse tends to push that to the logical extreme of "and therefore he deserved what happened to him."
and, like, "No... what? No. Being a bad judge of character who ignores warning signs doesn't mean you deserve to go through THAT. Jesus christ, twitter."
@@Dalton_Boardman2000 Yeah Jimmy is universally reviled everyone I see the game talked about
@@lancerguy3667 Curly discourse also loves to miss the fact that he disregards the safety rules when it inconveniences HIM but it's suddenly important when ANYA is the one it inconveniences.
(He leaves the axe to Swansea so he doesn't have to deal with it again, the knife (when in Curly's inventory, check its description) is supposed to be locked away like the axe and gun are, but he doesn't want to bother with it every time someone needs to cut something in the kitchen.)
Curly isn't just a bad judge of character and enabling his friend, he's ALSO avoiding responsibility when it isn't convenient for him, he wants a path of least resistance.
People woobify Curly like crazy and paint him as this victim when, no, from The Last One And Then Another, he's not in fact a victim of Jimmy, he genuinely has a dark enough sense of humor and a big enough "I can fix him" savior complex to think Jimmy's vitriol is just how Jimmy jokes and not building resentment and think that he can fix Jimmy, not realizing he's being patronizing as hell.
I love Curly because he's not the worst, but also not GOOD-- he's an ugly, bleak shade of grey. Casting him as excusable OR as irredeemable just means people haven't paid attention to the details enough and missed his whole character.
(And the people who say he deserved what he got are plain dumb and should be smacked on the nose with a croc, because they haven't heard of cosmic irony-- that's what his situation is: he refused to take actions and change his course at every point he had when he could have, and as a result, he's now stuck unable to take actions to change course ever again even if he wants to now. Didn't deserve it, but that's what cosmic irony is: it doesn't care if it is or isn't deserved, it just puts you in an ironic situation.)
29:21 This bit hit me really hard. I'm going through the absolute worst period of my life so far, dealing with a lot of issues including medical issues and disabilties that I can't even get properly diagnosed thanks to US Healthcare. And that's on top of things like struggling with my LGBT+ identity(s) and a storm of mental issues that are also untreated (see above). But just hearing you say "I see you. I hear you." Made me burst into tears. Made me feel a little less alone. Thank you. I hope you get all the support you need too (and it sounds like you're surrounded by loved ones that will provide it, but be sure to share a little of it with yourself too).
As a man who had a massive stroke at 18 years old and has lived with physical pain and psychological struggles for decades, a lot of this really spoke to me.
Finally, some actual analysis of the game that amounts to more of a recap and "Jimmy bad". Also just some really really good talk about disability. Thanks Commander.
I honestly think this is the best video you've put out in years. I definitely was shook by Curly's situation and read it in a similar way, but you go into so much more depth it's making me think about other events of the game in a different way. Mouthwashing really is something special. Also, speaking as a fellow disabled person, your speech at the end was absolutely fantastic. Thank God for Steph fucking Sterling, son!
As a chronic pain sufferer myself I really appreciate hearing this part of this game talked about. And really this sort of stuff in general. And I feel what you said about the human ability to adapt being horrifying not only for that but for my chronic mental illness as well. I hate saying it like you did but I have before, but the average person would be in tears with the shit I have to deal with.
Yes Steph put into words things ive been trying to communicate for years. I will be directing people to view this for the rest of my life.
I once experienced crippling low back pain for three months. At times it was bad enough that I couldn't even turn to lie more comfortably in bed, much less get up and so much as grab a cup of water.
I was in tears. I deeply hope I never experience this again. The most frightening part was when I couldn't find the words to express how much I depended on other people's help, and I'll use this experience to give someone else, some other time carte blanche to ask for any sort of assistance, no questions asked.
I think the theme of autonomy is over the whole game to the point of "subtly is for cowards". The posters threatening the crew if they take too much time to themselves, being stuck with a 5th crew member the ship can barely cover, Jimmy stealing the autonomy from everyone with each one of his decisions. And in that Anya keeping Curly alive and refusing to take away his autonomy by forcing the pills down his throat
This isn't exactly a correction, but the crew CAN'T cover Daisuke's presence on the ship. It's stated at one point that their supplies have to be very carefully rationed, and this is implied to be because Polle Express didn't actually retrofit the ship for the extra crewmate. Just as they only have four cryopods (when policy demands five) they also don't have enough food, water, or oxygen. So yeah. It's so far out of their hands it was basically over before it began.
God that description of the desperation to never return to a place of bad pain flare up. My skin was crawling just from hearing you describe those thoughts I've had so very, very often.
I remember seeing a group of mouthwahing cosplayers posting content online. I think they were cosplaying daisuke and Anya. They had a paper-mache curly that they drove around in a cheap stroller. As a prop. None of the videos they posted needed curly in them, either. It was so ironic.
I cannot adequately describe how much empathy I have for you, Steph, and I genuinely do not know how you can do it. Back in 2018 I "blew out" my L5/S1 (according to my Ortho), and the two months it took to have the surgery for it were hell. Constant pain levels of 9-10, no position or movement being able to alleviate it, and not being able to do much more than moan in a desperate attempt to get some additional relief by making noise. When I woke up in recovery and realized that pain was gone, I legitimately burst into tears and freaked out the nurse who was tending to me.
In addition to that, I've had some sort of mystery nerve condition in my pelvis since 2009, meaning 15 years at this point. No doctor, test, screening, imaging, etc., has ever been able to figure out what it is. The best way I can describe it is I get flares of hypersensitivity along with the feeling of restless leg syndrome, but in my pelvis. It's absolutely maddening. I can't sit, I can't lay down, sometimes even standing doesn't alleviate it. And I can never, EVER just lay down and go to sleep. It will flare, and I can't sleep no matter how fucking exhausted I am. There have been nights I've stood NEXT to my bed staring at it while I'm flaring, so frustrated with my own body that I'm close to tears because I just want to SLEEP so fucking badly.
I haven't had a solid night's sleep in 15 years now. I don't remember what it's like to just... go to bed and fall asleep for a few hours. I'm lucky if I can scrape together 5-6 hours in chunks of 45-60 minutes at a time, and that isn't restful. Exhaustion has become my new normal.
I'm very lucky that my line of work doesn't require a "normal" 9-5 (I'm an illustrator and work from home at whatever hours my body will allow) because I really don't see how I would be able to maintain one. If I'm not ultimately replaced by AI altogether.
I have no circadian rhythm anymore. No sleep patterns. I can only imagine the toll the chronic lack of restful sleep has taken on my overall health over the last 15 years, as well as what the state of my body AND career would be in now if I had never developed this problem and my body hadn't failed me. I _know_ it's part of the reason I'm also on antidepressants and anxiety medication, and I'm often a cranky ßetch from exhaustion. I'm endlessly thankful for having family and close friends who understand that and give me a lot of grace when I inevitably snap or bark at them and immediately apologize after. They know I well and truly cannot help it.
I've also been on controlled pain meds for all of that time because it's the ONLY thing that calms my flare-ups. And that in itself has been hell with the US healthcare system and how anyone who even glances at pain meds is treated like a d£ug-s€€k!ng junk!€thanks to the media circus surrounding them.
And now? I'm terrified the ACA is going to be overturned and I'll lose my insurance, my medicine, AND my access to the pain management doctor who writes the script for me. I don't know what I'm going to do if that happens, because even if I _don't_ get dropped retroactively for pre-existing conditions, I won't be able to afford the premiums without the subsidy I get through the marketplace.
So don't even get me _started_ on the effwhits who voted for that orange turd without even knowing what the fuck they were voting for.
Even though I doubt you read the comments, I'm sorry for the novel. I tend to word puke when I get going on my health worries.
Incredibly long winded comment short, I feel for you. Deeply. And it's part of why if I _ever_ have to cut back on the meager number of creators I support on Patreon, you will far and away be the last woman standing.
I have been waiting for this video this whole time from someone, anyone, who could understand curly in all the ways he has been victimized and the horror of disability in a society that hates the disabled.
Anya and Curly are both the characters i related to the most, in a multitude of ways (its why i alsi havr many issues with the way people do talk about curly's decisiins as captains but thats not rekevant atm), and seeing this aspect explored has been so important to me. I too read that line and i knew all too well what jimmy meant, and how it feels ti be talked about that way.
I am homebound and bedbound, and before that happened i had already been dealing with a similar back condition to steph. Working was a nightmare, and we actually lost our home once because of my inability to work more after my partner had became too disabled temporarily to work.
Able-bodied people have no idea how hard disabled people havr to work to get even our basic needs met, and think we CHOOSE this. As steph said, they simply cannot understand even one iota.
As a final note, if anyone wants to see more about curly's inner thoughts and actually hear him, play How Fish is Made. Its kinda a prequel, but some have made the case its actually concurrent with mouthwashing. Deffo check it out
Amazing video. I really, really love how you mentioned the "karmic punishment" reading of Curly's predicament. It is incredibly disturbing to me how often I see it when I read about Mouthwashing.
I am fortunate enough not to have been as incapacitated as long as your stories but 2 years ago I had open heart surgery, was discharged and a few weeks later my scar was infected and starting to open. I couldn't sleep, couldn't eat and had a hole in my chest. It was so painful until I was readmitted to hospital the pain lasting weeks was unbearable. You have my empathy for coping with any extreme amount of pain for as long as you did
just want to say how beautiful this channels evolution has been
I have a friend... several friends, actually, who have chronic pain. Thank you for explaining all this. This puts a lot of their struggles into perspective for me. I was always empathetic of course especially since i have different, chronic issues, but.... yeah. Thank you Steph.
First time i ever had a flareup, I was so scared. I'd never been to the hospital, especially for pain so bad I begged to die, and I was 23 and so very alone.
I'll never, ever forget being covered in sick & stuck to an IV that kept bleeding through & sobbing in fear, and that doctor coming in and snorting at me and shaking his head with his arms crossed while telling me i was acting like a stupid child and he'd throw me out.
I was so ashamed, I hated causing trouble & I just wanted to stop existing completely.
Same hospital staff called me a "he/she/it" while I was stuck there for a week & refused me my sleep medication.
Its scary how some people take advantage of their care over others who cant do anything about it.
My friend who walks with a cane because he often looses his balance talks about disability theatre. Like if he decides to use a nice fancy cane people assume he is just a hipster and is holding it for show and doesn’t need the cane because it doesn’t look “medical” enough.
I already know I’m alive. The pain keeps me from reminding other people that I’m alive.
One thing that's worth pointing out with end game spoiler:
...
...
...
When Jimmy is carving up Curly's body for food, he feeds Curly on Curly's own flesh.
Maybe he eats Curly as well, but quite pointedly he feeds Curly his own body to sustain him. Because that's how sick and twisted his sense of 'responsibility' has become. He is taking the cycle of justifying his actions as being done for the 'good' of someone else while he is literally harming them to its extreme.
It's a recurring motif of the game, and the understanding of that psychological aspect of abuse is one of the many indications that the writing is done well.
The narrative goes to some incredibly dark and haunting places, but it earns those moments through care and clarity of purpose. It's not just being edgy for its own sake.
I actually noticed *THE LINE* when I was watching a Let's Play on Twitch. It affected me so hard, that I couldn't really keep engaging with it as a game. As a person with disabilities, and surrounded by people with disabilities, the dehumanization of it struck me so clearly. I don't think it was a throwaway line, I think it was deliberately crafted - the way it was thrown out (as opposed to "when we run out of this, we will have no way to relieve the pain" which would have the same secondary meaning - i.e. "kill him") it seems clear that Jimmy perceives Curly as a way he can justify himself and "play the hero."
Yeah, I felt like I was physically struck when I saw that line. I'm disabled myself, and it's just so plainly *callous*. It's utterly chilling.
I hated the idea that "curly deserved this". Because as "poetic" as it might be, that now that he can't stop his friend he has to suffer under his hand like Anya did.
It's a lot more compelling to me, that he just isn't a perfect victim, but HE IS STILL A VICTIM. the abuser here, is Jimmy.
That no one deserves this, no matter what, a person does not deserve this, and implying that he does, is implying he isn't a person. Which is, overall, how society sees disability.
Beautiful analysis, thank God for you!!
14:18 I wish I could remember her name but a TikTok creator made a pretty decent put idea that Curly’s disability isn’t karmic retribution but rather a case of dramatic irony for how he treated Anya. Personally part of the reason he laughs towards the end is because he’s just broken from Anya being right about everything and he ignored her. Anya dies in the one place she felt safe from jimmy, in front of him and jimmy ends up finding the gun she told curly she hid because she felt he couldn’t be trusted with the crews safety if he learned about the pregnancy.
I don't see how karmic retribution and dramatic irony are all that different concepts in the way you used it here. You are still saying that the way he treated Anya is somehow connected to the fact he is disabled which is the issue.
@@404maxnotfound Because karmic retribution would be if he died and then reincarnated as a person with disability. Karma requires reincarnation. No reincarnation, not karma.
@@404maxnotfound Karma in itself is wrongly used to mean justice. Karma isnt picking sides. Its a mirror of what has been done. Its not about atonement, or justice. Its not connected. Just like suffering in reincarnation isnt connected. It just happened again, under different circumstances. In this case. Abuse and suffering happened twice.
@@Leo0718 Well, karma's not real, so it doesn't make any sense to appeal to a "true" or "authentic" definition of karma. Even if karma was real, we can't apply any hard definition of it to an explicitly fictional narrative, unless the authors specifically define what karma means to them within the context of the work, or if the work itself establishes karma as extant and working in some way. Karma exists only as a concept in people's minds, so it "works" only insomuch as it works in the mind of the viewer and as understood in the discourse. My assumption is that the majority of the audience of this game (and probably these developers) views karma (if they take it seriously at all) as either a) metaphysical or divinely enforced consequences, or b) a fancy word for irony. They are probably more likely to believe in either a spiritual afterlife or death-as-finality than in a reincarnation cycle.
@404maxnotfound I agree with you. In either case, the argument is that Curly was punished by either karma or the narrative for failing to protect his crew from Jimmy, with the implicit claim that the punishment was just. We could argue that Curly had a moral and legal responsibility to protect his crew, but if he had been a good captain, the game never would have happened.
@@dallium01 dramatic irony doesn't exist either. Not in the material world. But we are discussing a literary work of fiction. In that context karmic retribution does have a most commonly meaning associated with the religious concept of karma, and it requires reincarnation. For example, a cruel hunter is reborned as a deer after a hunting accident. That is karmic retribution. It's like a whole literature topic and everything. Mouthwash is just irony. No need for fancy words, regardless of your personal spiritual beliefs.
“Someone should do something about that (Health Insurance)” We gotya covered, sis
Deny
Defend
Depose
Absolute banger of a line, real straight shooter.
Someone really should! In Minecraft, for example.
They could, say, crowd into all the office skyscraper top floors, and defenestrate a whole bunch of health insurance CEOs and boards of directors, in Minecraft. Not in real life, obviously! Doing that is against the law. You're not allowed to hurt people deliberately _in real life!_ ...Unless you're an insurance CEO, of course! But I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything.
Thank you for making this video. I've played Mouthwashing and while I did feel great sympathy for Curly during the story, I hadn't picked up on how the other characters dehumanize him throughout the game, even without meaning to. And Curly wasn't even the primary source of my horror for the game, for me it was the themes of suicide and isolation in outer space. Like you said, the game has many layers of horror.
The thing that always stuck with me is the horse symbolism, cause I love cartoon ponies. I think all the horse symbolism is a metaphor for dehumanization - like the historical Pony Express, they're being replaced with a more automated, mechanized solution. They're not treated as sentient, they're treated like beasts of burden. Somebody also pointed out to me that Jimmy's answer of becoming attracted to cartoon horses can be symbolic of his own misogyny, drawing such a direct line between how he sees women and how he sees horses - as beasts of burden. broodmares, just _things_ to be _used_.
I'm so glad this video exists, I was hoping someone would cover this aspect of the game, horror as a genre has a terrible track record when it comes to portraying disability, and since I have neither the eloquence nor the personal experience to go in-depth into it with mouthwashing, I'm thankful that you did. I'm also thankful for the wrestling segment near the end.
One thing I find very interesting about curly as a character is that I can now point to a fictional person to say "You can look at what you know and absolutely hate his guts, but you still have to recognize no one 'deserves' all that". I mean, hell, even if jimmy was the one who ended up being in the cockpit it would still not be justice because that's not what justice *is*, in the same way that bullet through his brain wasn't jimmy "taking responsability", the excruciating pain and dehumanization curly is put through isn't a punishment for his innaction, it's just the direct result of being in the impact zone of a spaceship and an asteroid, there is no morality inherent to the fact a human body can lose limbs/organs and still be kept alive.
God, I feel this.
I still remember the nurse who flinched when she took my vitals and I explained that this is how I always felt. For anyone else having organs turn necrotic would have been mind shattering pain. For me it was a Tuesday.
I have been so fucking lucky to have people who didn't just take care of me but actually cared for me.
I have two herniated discs- one happened when I was 17, the other when I was 18 and I live in basically non stop pain from them. I feel so much for what you talked about in regards to your chronic pain and wow, it really got to me, made me sit down for a bit. I try not to give the pain too much brain space, especially not on the bad days, but it does feel like I'm trapped sometimes. I didn't expect this from todays video, but... thank you, I suppose. I will have to give myself more space to think about being in pain without being scared of admitting that I am. Much love
I've been trying to get on SSI for around a decade now for a variety of mental health issues that developed when I was 12 and made it impossible to progress through high school beyond my sophomore year. The shit SSA gets up to in an effort to block as many people as possible from surviving, specifically to free up more money for corporate tax cuts and subsidies, is the sort of shit nobody ever believes until they see the paperwork I've received with their own eyes. A great example is paying random doctors you've never even heard of to write entirely fake reports about conversations you've never had where they submit fabricated statements you've never made. Your only hope is to appeal and reapply over and over and over and hope your case gets in front of the right person at the right time (my attorney specifically mentioned "not on a Friday afternoon, not within 30 minutes of a break or lunch, not right before a tee time, etc. etc.") in one of the rare time frames where they're being pressured to approve just enough people to get their metrics down because their denial rates are getting so high that people are starting to notice.
My father was diagnosed with a stage 4 glioblastoma and given a three-to-six month prognosis (this was around a decade ago, also). He was denied, too.
If you've ever wondered why there's such a massive number of people who are _undeniably_ disabled and unable to support themselves living on the streets, this is probably the single largest factor. They know if they can just drag their feet (every step of the process takes a _minimum_ of a full year) long enough that the vast majority of applicants will be dead, in jail or on the street long before they can make it all the way through the system. It's the same "delay, deny, defend" shit the insurance industries get up to.
It occurs to me that Mouthwashing is particularly horrifying within the context of expansion of assisted dying in the UK. I’m a disabled Canadian and have been closely following MAiD for a number of years now, and the way many MAiD recipients are also organ donors, drift into death by the government-led slashing of resources like food/ food banks, pain meds and treatment, etc. because it’s less expensive to kill us than keep us alive… that’s Mouthwashing.
The tendency to make the bad guy disabled in some way is definitely concerning.
I don't know if the original draft of Star Wars had Darth Vader as missing most of his flesh or just wearing a chest plate with buttons on it, but Obi-Wan _does_ say he's "more machine now than human, twisted and evil" as though the two are directly linked. Maybe he was just being metaphorical, but that would be a weird choice considering _he was the one_ who lopped off Anakin's limbs and left him burning on the side of a lava river.
Meanwhile Palpatine, who as far as we know, is all flesh, is still a withered old man who probably didn't have much time left. The obvious, Vader-like mechanized parts continued to be a distinguishing feature of the Sith in other Star Wars material, whereas hero Luke got a replacement hand that looks just like his old one.
Maybe it was just a difference in what they were capable of in the special effects department back then, but Luke doesn't _look_ different like the Sith, no big, obvious metal attached to flesh like Darth Malak or Darth Malgus, nowhere near the robo-skeleton of General Grievous, so the audience knows he's not a monster. When Anakin first got a hand chopped off, it was replaced with a clearly metal, almost skeletal hand, as if to mark him as moving toward the dark side.
The original villain of Resident Evil, Oswald Spencer? Old man in a wheelchair. Meanwhile the more active bad guy, Albert Wesker, was killed and revived with his own special mutant serum, which still made him handicapped in that he was dependent on more injections every few hours, too much or too little of it in his system producing the same effect as being poisoned.
The Deus Ex series with Adam Jensen, where people with augmentations are regularly treated like freaks, monsters, and time bombs.
There are probably a bunch more examples, but that was what sprung to mind. It's an interesting way to look at how we mark bad guys in fiction and how it relates to real-world treatment of the disabled.
The whole pain segment really got to me. I've had a doctor look at me and say "I don't believe you're at a 7" simply because I wasn't "performing" the 7 pain. Because my pain tolerance is so high that I can slap my hand on metal straight out of the oven and just be like "Oh, hm, ouch, that really hurts" when most people wouldn't have to perform the ouchies of burning off a layer of skin. Most people don't even know I'm in pain until I tell them, and I got denied disability money because of that, even though I'm at a 7 every day I'm out of bed for more than 3 hours.
Also lowkey helped me realize that my being extremely antagonistic to landlords (and other smaller incidents with random businesses) is a coping mechanism.
Ohh this hit me in the feels.
My son has complex medical needs, he is non-verbal and non-mobile with a life limiting condition. But he is also a bundle of joy, loves a cuddle, his sensory lights , bath time, Bob's burgers and war movies on TV and frothy milk or cream (he can't swallow but loves the taste).
He's a joy, every moment of every day, and so incredibly brave with all his challenges. Either me or his mum are with him 24/7 both to help keep his airway open and to give him comfort and company. He's never alone.
It's crazy the amount of medical professionals that push an advanced care plan (kinda like a palliative plan) and just want to right off his life... Or the amount of social professionals that want him to have respite or go into care (to give me and mum a break), we don't want a break, sure someone to pick up the meds or do the dishes would be helpful, but not time away from him. What's annoying is hey think their helping but it dehumanizing.
We always make decisions based on the question "what would I want if it was me?" . Would I at 7 want to be changed by a nurse? Or spend a weekend in respite away from mum and dad? No... Ok cool, then we go with that.
He isn't the burden, bills, external family, work, yeah that's tough...But he is the light that gets you through.
I've never played this game but the description of chronic pain and flares had me nodding along. My gallbladder got infected and started shutting my liver down a few years ago - the pain wasn't much more intense than a flare, so I ignored it until I got a deep sense of dread that told me it was more than that. Everyone around me who'd experienced gallstones told me that it was the worst pain they had ever experienced, they didn't understand why I'd left it so long.
The pain to be wasn't that bad tbh compared to the pain I usually have. Was about a six.
I see so much gross art and talk in the mouthwashing fandom about burn victims comparing curly to meat and even making fun of how he would complain about his pain if he were to use a speech aide. I hate the mouthwashing fandom it is legitimately the most ableist fandom I’ve ever seen. They tag curly with body horror as if people with burns don’t exist and use his injuries as imagery for horror and do not do any research about people with burns
Goddamn, I wasn't expecting the Commander Sterling Wrestling clip to make me cry.
I am disabled, but not physically. But my uncle has been disabled since before I was born. He had an accident when he was 17, spent years in a coma. Hospital staff back then tried to kill him by not feeding him because "he was taking up a bed other people could use". My grandmother, his mother and my caretaker later on, stopped working and had to commute to him every day to feed him a meal she had made. She learned how to care for him, since his brain was so damaged he could not speak, remember things for long, walk, feed himself, nothing. She spent all her time with him, taking him to the garden in a wheelchair while she gardened, sleeping in the same bed to keep an eye on him (he has a hole in his neck to prevent choking and it has to be kept dry). She did physio with him to keep his muscles from atrophying. She got him to be able to use a fork again to feed himself, even tho his hands would shake a lot. She fought tooth and nail for him.
Yet he is self aware. He has been trapped in his body for more then 30 years, his limbs now thin, muscles atrophied. My grandmother has been his full time caretaker. She is now too weak and ill herself to care for him as she used to.
He was a prop to me when I was a child. I was a bit afraid of him, but I didn't see him as a person fully. Now I can't help but want to cry every time i see him. He tried to stretch his arm to me, his hand wrapped in socks so he could not poke his eyes out. I took his hand and held it. The medications help soothe, but the can't take the pain away. He takes strong antipsychotics. I wish there was a way to end the suffering.
As someone completely sidelined with chronic pain and illness I can’t express how much I appreciate this piece. It’s so rare to hear anyone so perfectly articulate what it is to be othered and abandoned by a society designed to discard you the moment you can’t produce at the desired level.
That wrestling bit near the end brought me to tears. Wracking, heart-wrenching sobs. I had no idea how much I needed to hear that from someone. Thank you Stephanie.
I was diagnosed with a chronic illness about three months ago. It’s likely that I’ll become partially or fully wheelchair bound at some point in my life. I was devastated. The sport I’ve recently become involved in is basically impossible to do if you’re in a wheelchair. The fact that I’ve just found a way to stay active that I genuinely love and now it could be snatched away from me at any time has been really tough to bear.
It’s people like you who give me hope and bring me joy. Thank you. Thank you so much.
The first episode, ever, of The Jimquisition where I had to stop part way through and take a breath before I could finish it. There is nothing so accurate about having an "invisible" disability than having to show off how bad it is just to be believed and then you only get answers and advice like "oh just get better." "Don't be sad." and my personal favorite "It could be worse."
The true horror of Curly is that he is suffering through what he put Anya true. Unseen, unheard, abandoned, treated as an issue to handle. Its horrible. Its sad. And the horror is his refusal to act upon his responsibility as captain is what left him in this situation. Its not about being deserved. Karma is not justice, suffering is not atonement. Its a thematic mirror of how truly horrible what the other went through is.
One thing I think people overlook, partially due to the sheer brutality that is what happened to Anya and Curly, but each and every one of the characters on the Tulpar are a victim of Jimmy's nature at some point or another - taking away their autonomy through different means. With Anya and Curly it's pretty evident at this point, but Swansea was literally drugged (and that comment Jimmy makes about him not remembering anything afterwards), and then with Daisuke, he COERCES him into doing something he knew was a risk and didn't want to do.
to quote clint eastwood in unforgiven: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."
I do think its a thematic parallel, especially considering anya is the one who prolongs his suffering by saving him. he prolonged her suffering by not taking action AKA not taking responsibility. She prolongs his by saving his life knowing full well he will only suffer. Anya's actions can even be read as her version of avoiding responsibility, the responsibility a doctor or nurse would have to let a patient pass away in peace. It reminds me so much of Hisashi Ouchi's case that I wonder if the devs were inspired by it when it came to curly.
It's a parallel but Curly didn't put Anya through it. JIMMY did. He's right there! Jimmy and Pony Express put the crew through everything!
@blissfulrain inaction is also an action
I am so glad you spoke your bit about dealing with chronic pain.
I've got spina bifida and I only found out when I was in my mid 20s (I'm 58 now). I have real difficulty trying to tell people about how the pain is constant but you learn to push it into the background, but at the expense of it being demanding, energy wise.
As such if I'm lucky I'll get a couple of hours a day to be able to do anything.
I wish this were more publicised as many still look at me doing something and equating that to being alright.
The clip you included from the wrestling match made me cry. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder many years ago, and in the past two years it's turned into *severe* major depressive disorder. I never used to struggle with making it to work or staying in touch with friends and family who all live within driving distance, and the self destructive thoughts -- I can't remember a time I was ever this scared for so long. But being reminded that as someone with a disability that I'm not alone, that it can be fought for as long as possible, really hit me. You've been an inspiration (and a source of gender envy, and I mean that in the most complimentary way possible) to me ever since I started watching in 2020.
Commander Sterling, Pansexual Princesque of Pangalactic Pandemonium, I thank you. I have the strength to keep going thanks to you.