Mahindra Hydraulic Cylinders: Tear Down, Inspect & Size for Seals
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- Опубликовано: 21 мар 2023
- We have a set of hydraulic cylinders off a Mahindra tractor in for repair. This will be a 2 part video. The first video will show the tear-down, inspection and sizing up the gland and piston to find the seals ion the hydraulic book. The second video we'll put everything back together with all of the new soft parts.
#abom79 #hydraulics #hydraulicrepair #mahindra
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It's amazing how the power of a machine that can move mountains boils down to a few pieces of rubber and plastic.
Tell me about it. Just got my car back from the shop... thought the tranny had quit but no, it was one of the CV axles - clean break where it passed through a rubber guide bushing!
That's why you always use axle stands when going under a car. The entire weight of the car is being held aloft on the hydraulic jack by a small rubber O-ring in the bottom of the unit 🤣
Adam, I have dismantled hundreds of cylinders with similar problems, aluminium glands are frequently a problem due to corrosion and subsequent galling of the threads. Applying heat in my experience seldom helps, as you found You only have a few seconds to remove the gland before the expansion of the aluminium gland catches up and then exceeds the expansion of the steel cylinder and then the heat softens the aluminium and makes galling/seizing inevitable. My most successful removal technique was to support under the gland on a block of hardwood and vigorously hammer all around the thread area on the outside of the cylinder with a heavy brass or copper mallet prior to attempting to undo the gland. This breaks up corrosion and loosens any cold weld in the thread. If the thread starts to get tight when unscrewing apply more mallet.
Second this. Used to work in a facility that produces hydraulic cylinders, and this is effective, often on even brand new parts.
I wonder if you shrank the AL gland with Liquid Nitrogen might work better
@@tedsaylor6016 The short answer, NO. I had LN available and found it too difficult to confine to a small area for dismantling tasks. It was indispensable for assembly of interference fit parts. A big mallet beats the stuffing out of LN for dismantling. I always smothered the threads in Never Seize on Aluminium glands on re assembly.
@@garychaplin9861 Thank you, just learned something!
@@garychaplin9861 a big hammer will beat the stuffing out of most things.
Hey! I'm a seal design engineer, so seeing you show a seal catalog and size gland was very cool! All the information you had on sizing new replacement seals was great! I spend a lot of time in seal catalogues, so nice to see em show up here
It's because O rings are dirt cheap and Back up rings are pretty spendy comparatively. If you really need a non-standard back up ring most companies can make em for you, but it doesn't make sense to always stock them
ABOM is always at his best when he's fixing stuff or making chips.
I like these vids too, he's had a few infomercials lately.
making chips is his forte, mechanicing not so much; that poor pin spanner.
Hey Adam, Heavy equipment Mechanic here. If you ever have a pin stick like that either torch the pin center out a bit or air gouge the center of the pin a bit and often times they come out.
Once some of the center material is gone and the pin cools its final od shrinks and many times comes free a lot easier.
He said he's going to try his hydraulic press first. If that doesn't work, I suspect he will use his milling machine to mill out the broken stud, as he's done in many videos before. Torching could easily deform the eye shape.
@@kindablue1959 If you do what I'm talking about and use an arc gouge it really doesn't heat soak as much as you'd think but does give room for the pin to shrink down. This process is well known by seasoned equipment mechanics especially in extremely salty environments and has a very low probability of deforming the rod end bore due to heating.
@@TMoney1341 Kurtis at CEE in Australia uses the gouge all the time fror his large heavy equipment repairs
@@kindablue1959 I think that cylinder is scrap so the pin won’t need to be removed.
@@brucemadden1626 I enjoy his videos too!
It works amazingly well to fillet out/off material, you just really need to be cautious to not shower yourself in molten steel accidentally.
Seeing you applying heat to a hydraulic system like that, reminded me of a cautionary tale from my early days in engineering here in the UK. Following the Falklands conflict, during which we lost Royal Navy vessels, an emergency safety ‘flyer’ was sent out to all UK manufacturers. This was with regards to the use of Viton seals and what happens to them if they suffer an extreme heat event, such as being in a fire. Unlike conventional seals which char, Viton actually liquifies and being a Fluoroelastomer, it can release Hydrogen Fluoride gas AND, if you get that liquified Viton material on your skin, there was no other treatment other than to amputate the affected area! Whilst I acknowledge that Viton wouldn’t normally be used in the hydraulics you are dealing with here, everyone be aware - if you are dealing with any such equipment and you suspect it might have been in a fire (or you are going to use heat yourself to effect disassembly), take all precautions.
Good info, sort of like how people shouldn't weld things that are zinc plated
Funny, I live in the States but I remember a similar warning and it would have been about the same time frame (early in my engineering career!). I always warn the new guys.
@@kevinstark6329 Yes, I suspect the alert went worldwide, following the presumably unfortunate experience of either Royal Navy fire control teams and engineers during the conflict, or workers in dockyards attempting repairs or salvage.
I love, absolutely love, these actual machining videos. This is the "secret behind the curtain" that most Americans are utterly unaware of. Shops like Booth Machine Shop by the thousands, in cities big and small, working every day to fix the mechanisms that keep America going.
you might enjoy Cutting Edge Engineering here on RUclips too. Lots of mining industry stuff. Straya!
Aw thats awesome to get a surprise midweek episode of Abom!
I thought it was too easy when you opened the first two cylinders ! Thanks for useful information.
Hey Adam, I know you said you don't like to paint, but your job on that Reed vice has held up really well!
That reed vise is the heaviest duty vise ive ever seen. The handle to tighten it looks like 2 feet long. insane. To buy a vise that size today would be every bit of $1500
lol more like $3000+
i have missed these type of videos not hating on the cnc but these are what i do at my shop thanks for all you do
First time i have seen someone show a seal ordering catalog/technique. This is one of the things that makes your videos great.
Glad to see the jobs coming into the new shop. Quite a range of projects but face it, hydrualics is your thing.
Adam, my sincere compliments for the introduction to the kingdom of seals.
We found that the best way to remove the aluminum glan was to lay the cylinder on an anvil and use a pneumatic hammer to rattle the tube against the glan to free the threads.
These are the best types of vids! Seeing the problems solving when things dont go right is by far the best content on youtube! 👍
As always thank you for the videos Abom!
Very nice😀
I just rebuilt eight tie rod type hydraulic cylinders. When I got the the 7th one, I found out it had a bent rod. I had to break down and turn out a new one. The guy that built all these cylinders retired and is out of business. Looks as if I'm going to start making them in home. With supply chain issues and the fact that a lot of guys are retiring, I find myself having to make more items in house. That's OK, that's what I do best. I enjoy your video when I get a chance to watch them.
Abom, glad to see you have come into the light with Milwaukee.
Abom, your knowledge of tools and device components never ceases to amaze. Really excellent work!
All this information is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
There is skill in using a catalog. Nice to see you teaching this stuff. I've fired a bunch of new guys through my crash course on looking stuff up in catalogs and it's worth every bit of my time and the student's time!
Thank you for the explanation on looking up the seals! I am the new guy in a caterpillar hydraulic shop and what you just showed was a much simpler way than i have been shown. We often have people carry in a gland or piston from something they are working on asking for seals. I have learned many things from you over the last few years. Keep up what you do!
thank you so much for sharing the process of this, this will help me with maintaining my shop equipment!!!
Got here 50 seconds after upload! This is the kind of machining I’m used to seeing Adam complete. The new stuff is good too. I’ll take either as long as the filming remains this good.
Definitely a fan of the SNS series and this vid reminds me of them...awesome, show us what ya working with!!
Love this channel👍 and thanks for sharing you're knowledge sir
good info but instead of having to machine internal parts check with Mahindra to get a couple seal kits?
i learn so much as always, you are the man
Having those catalogues Adam, are like gold.
great video thanks for taking time to show how you arrive at seal dimensions
I know its seems easy to you with like hundred years of experience , But its fun to watch your hands on knowledge of simple things like seals and how the "interact" , like what they seem to be and what they are :)
It's genetically ingrained in him. His dad and grandpa are both going "yeah, i taught him that!"
Thanks for doing this , I appreciate it!
Very educational video,Adam.Thank you.
Outstanding as usual. Real craftsmen.😎
FYI, the ASTM/SAE standards for O-ring grooves max out at 5000 psi. If you very carefully choose your back up rings, and design your gaps to the absolute minimums and increase the o-ring crush, you can extend the pressures to well over double that number.
Most farm equipment doesn't get over 2500 psi by design, and most brands set the relief valves a little lower than that for safety.
Yeah, I used to design downhole oil tools that went WAY higher...
thanks for this video! exactly what i needed!!!
Very useful information Adam. Thanks.
A hydraulic test stand would be a nice addition to the shop, those cylinders seems to find there way to you!
Brother god has given you a wonderful talent
Nice to see someone working
great video. very informative.
Thanks Abom, I enjoy this type of video. I know it may be unnecessary for some of your viewers but I have never worked with this so if I do want to attempt my own service at least I have some chance of not sounding completely useless at the hydraulics shop! I am in Australia so unfortunately can’t use suppliers suggested. Cheers Mark
@mark111943 - We occasionally ship to Australia but a local shop will proabably have what you need too. Cheers!
Enjoyed watching this episode
Thanks Adam
You can tell you have spent a good part of your life working on hydraulic cylinders by the way you work through that book.
Only cylinders I get are the ones the hydraulic shop couldn’t get unscrewed so it blew my mind to see they are supposed to unscrew somewhat easily.
thanks for the education
Vice looks amazing...🙂(works amazing too)
Thank you for the walk through maybe the newer book has the seals you are looking for just a thought
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for your lecture! Very interesting.
The stuck gland, would it perhaps get loosened if You tap the tube over the threads? Oxide and grime fill the treads and is pulverized by hitting outside the tube. I believe You to have more luck with this method than just heat!
Regards PeO
Surely Mahindra, or a tractor repair vendor, has an all inclusive seal kit sitting on the shelf somewhere so you wouldn't have to machine the pistons.
Assuming you go to all that trouble of finding seals because you had first checked with Mahindra for factory replacements? Now you machine things to fit, and the next guy that needs to work on this will try to use factory seals and they won't fit. So hopefully he has the same knowledge and resources that you do.
WhErE’s ThE mAcHiNiNg
This was interesting, thank you!
I've always had pretty good luck with getting the gland nuts to come off by using a little heat and break fluid as a lubricant on them. Laugh as you want but it works.
some heat can be necessary if they used thread sealer
Probably a dumb question, but if it's a Mahindra tractor, doesn't Mahindra sell a factory reseal kit for the cylinder, so you don't have to do all the measuring? Love your channel as always.
Probably so, but ordering your own via a distributor is probably much much cheaper. Not to mention the value of this video is the knowledge to find any seal you may ever need, no matter the use.
I like how you used the angle iron to protect the fixed tubes on the stuck cylinder from the chain vice.
I have several old vises and anvils. That reed vise is nice. I have one just like that Im getting ready to restore. I have a pat. Date Dec 24, 1912 105 reed I use daily in the shop. They are bullet proof!
Love that Reed vise
I'd say that whoever had the tractor certainly got the use out of the hydraulic cylinders......about 110% in fact.
Now that’s a vice!
Keep a steel bucket full of cold water, heat the barrel till the aluminum head expands then dump the whole thing in cold water, repeat 2-3 times then unscrew head. Bobcat cylinders, and Kubota cylinders are made the same design, standard seals American threads. If the pin type spaners don't move it right off put them back in the drawer and break out the pipe wrench, but only put one set of marks in the head! 37years in the same hydraulic shop
Wow, that's alot of stuff to know... 🙂Good info... :-)
FarmCraft 101 did the very same job see his videos, Mahindra's answer when asking about seal kits was to recommend buying a new cylinder, they are cheap, however generic seals are available from any seal supplier quite easily.
I've conquered a few cylinder glands that were that tight before and just applied a steady lower heat to the gland itself for several minutes, then just let it cool down for an equal amount of time, and loosened them. The heat will soak away from the gland into the cylinder letting the gland contract while the cylinder expands.
The two gland nuts that came apart are steel i bet. There is a special place in hell for engineers who design aluminum gland nuts. Bobcat does that to.
An absolutely horrendous idea with that aluminium gland
It's probably a bean counter. We can save X minutes in machine time if we make these out of aluminum.
@@1dgrdgr Mahindra is a joint India and China company. That tells you all you need to know.
I would have never thought of a machine shop rebuilding hydraulics.
I am glad you know what the heck you are talking about because I am lost completely lost.
I have fixed CAT cylinders seals but CAT had seal kits at their parts dealers.
That massive REED shop vise is an American made shop tool treasure, wonder if it came from a RR shop its a real beast-!!
He restored that himself. He did an excellent job; it's just gorgeous. And monstrous. :)
"the blue wrench" i like that lol, added to my shop vocab
very nice
THAKS ADAM
Adam if you ever get tired of looking at that Reed Vise and want to donate it to a good non smoking home please contact me 😂
It sometimes helps after heating is to spray the male end with either or even brake clean. I might surprise you.
You might be surprised that a torch (and/or heat) and brake clean (chlorinated) = phosgene gas = WWI nerve gas. So, uh, nope.
For things locked together by corrosion or so0mething, how about ultrasonic vibration on the item immersed in a bath of penetrating/cutting oil or rust remover?
Job shop stuff looks like fun. If I was standing at a machine doing s production run of the same part day in and out, I would not be so interested.
Some people set up ridiculous studios for their shows. Thus guy could legit actually run a machine shop with all his props for these videos.
You need a pipe wrench, put some heat on it and spray water on the threaded side to shrink it fast. A trick I learned from an old timer at Chevrolet school
Does the tractor manufacturer not have the seal kits available? Thanks for the video.
Damn Abom, Cylinders-1/ Abom-2...
I wonder if an air hammer might have been able to break that stubborn cap off.
Last year I had to design a custom pneumatic cylinder. What I would have given to have a catalog like that. It was incredibly tedious to find the right seals and o-rings. I only need it with metric sizes.
I know Adam is capable of machining anything to make a seal fit, but not everyone has that ability. Seems to me the right seals **must** exist somewhere. The mfg didn't make them up custom in their own factory. Maybe they're metric; maybe they're newer than that 2013 book. I'd have gone online and used 'modern' technology to search for the parts, maybe even contact the tractor manufacturer.
Very possible but what is done ... is done. What he should do is make some kind of permanent mark or engrave on the piston or somewhere on the cylinder that the piston has been modified because the next person that rebuilds that cylinder ... if it isn't Mr. Booth ... might just order factory parts only to find out they won't fit.
@@tsmartin Oh, to be fly on the wall to witness that episode, lol.
@@tsmartin Be nice if he could laser etch it on the cylinder somewhere....or just print it out for the customer.
salut
merci pour le cour rapide
I'm interested in building a hydraulic ram for a project. Were do I start? Let say i need a ram that has 18 inches of travel and can lift 800 pounds. Any resource I can turn to for guidance. What I what to build is similar to your content in this video.
Did the seals get trashed by crud getting past the worn-out wipers, or do they all tend to go at once?
That is usually what starts he wear process.
would the equipment manufacturer (in this case mahindra) sell a seal kit for their cylinder assemblies? or publish the seal info?
I am fascinated by your ability to interpret what a problem is and I watched the almost everyone of your videos if you take and put a piece of metal on one side and smack it with the other side via soft metal that will not divert it and do it in a fashion. Change the position to a 360DEG around it and you will be able to get it Potentially
Given that aluminum expands much faster than steel, you just added to the problem by applying heat. A little shot of liquid nitrogen may have been the solution.
On a cylinder it always pay out to invest in a good quality viper seal to protect the rod seal from dirt and dust
An option to buying a new cylinder is having a cylinder shop replicate the old one. This isn't always an option, but it would definitely be worth some phone calls or emails with pictures.
Seeing as how he's replicated cylinders in the past.... on video.... on *this* channel.... I'm sure he knows that.
Maybe even send it off to Cutting Edge Engineering... Kurtis does this sort of work all the time.
Be sure to include a treat for the Chief Safety Officer. 😉
@@surlyogre1476 the shipping would exceed the price of a new cylinder.
@@rileyk99 I'm sure he knows that as well, but my comment was more for the community than anything.
@@surlyogre1476 I’m sure sending a hydraulic cylinder half way around the world would be very cost feasible. 🙄
Adam, 4 anni fa hai riparato un cilindro idraulico molto simile SNS 217, e hai utilizzato un kit di strumenti Seal Twistor, perché questa volta hai preferito usare le dita con qualche difficoltà? Comunque molto interessanti i tuoi video, grazie
Use a 48 in pipe wrench
Can those seals and o-rings be obtained through the mahindra dealer? Or do you feel they are inferior quality?
I find it fascinating that you call that a "spanner wrench", when I would call it a pin spanner. But there again I would likely only use the word wrench if I'd pulled a muscle or sprained something or if I was referring specifically to a monkey wrench.
To be fair, it's a tool which "spans" either side of a fastener, so it's a perfectly descriptive term, which for me is applicable to a pin spanner, or what I guess you would call a wrench which spans both sides of a hex (or other shape) nut or bolt.
What you later described as a pin spanner, I would have called a hook spanner!
We really are two nations divided by a common language.
Language is always fascinating to me, as is watching your amazing videos, Adam.
The word "Spanner" is related to the German word "Spannung" which means tension or tightening.
Wow, four actual machining videos in a row! Maybe new shop building and new tool acquisition time is leveling off and it's time to get back to the work that made me subscribe. Fingers crossed...
he's ran out of space,lol. Or maybe more to the point, the machine manufacturers/ sellers have realized that.
1-5/16 wrench through the left side of the spanner wrench, and boom you got where to put the cheater bar on, holding the wrench with wright hand and cheater with left until enough force lock em in place for you to apply necessary force with that last cylinder 5:43
You have more restraint that I would have. "It can't be tight if it's liquid."
I did a couple cylinders on my backhoe last year and my seals came out in pieces just like the ones you are doing.
If that was an alu gland in a steel barrel, would you have more luck freezing the gland instead of (or addition to) heating the barrel, because alu would shrink more than steel.