The cush is by no means a requirement, esp for protecting the motor, the internal clutch hub does a pretty good job on that. I've been riding with a cush wheel for 200 hrs and switch back to the OEM rear wheel with different gearing and tire for more serious dirt biking. Both wheels are balanced and the cush is preferable on DS rides where there's some pavement. At that point it's benefit is immediately obvious, no chain snatch and it's smoothens the engine pulses that are felt through the drivetrain. I use the bike for 2 purposes, dual sport and as a straight up dirt bike. The cush wheel is geared differently and has a DS tire, the stock wheel has lower gearing and and runs a tire I wouldn't want to chew up on the street. 10min swap that transforms the bike from one use to another. If you only or mostly ride dirt it's weight penalty outweighs the benefit IMO.
I’ve had one on my 500 for 5000 km and the gearbox is the best I’ve ever experienced on a Dirtbike, clutchless up and down shifting. Every bike apart from comp bikes come with them so that must tell us something.
The point of a cush drive hub is to lessen the impacts to gear teeth face under higher than normal traction like asphalt riding long distance. But this was before KTM had started installing a version of this in the clutch basket effectively doing the same thing in a much cleaner/controlled encironment. 5 lbs of unsprung weight is a very neg effect on rear suspension which I think throws the value equation in favor of stock non- cush wheel. JM2C
@@miro_s I’m very sure how it works, it does help , but it doesn’t help the pulses from the back wheel to chain to output side of gearbox , it only helps the pulses from crank to input side of gearbox. Cush hub is still a must if lots of Tar riding is done.
@@benlondon8467 I can appreciate where you're coming from, and I think it does make a difference, like your saying, but the people with 50k-75k miles on 520 and 525 stock transmission gears say otherwise lol.
@@CumminsTurbo4 yep, 700hrs about 40k kilometres out of dirt bike gear box treated nice, with minimal tar riding. 150hrs 5/6k kilometres all tar riding it hard. I’ve blown a gearbox in 12 months Supermoto. Personally I’ve learnt many lessons over my 40years of riding bikes. I’ve had many bike failures, shit happens. Each to their own 🤙, I mod what I ride to suit how I ride & where. It all helps a little.
I'm assuming your bike is a late model and if so the clutch basket is rubber mounted so what difference would it make? Two lots of rubber? One at the clutch basket and one on the hub to absorb the snap. Is it really necessary, particularly considering the weight penalty? I'm just about to do a Husky 501 build and this is the most perplexing part of the build. All my mates on 500s say, 'Mate you don't need it, the cush is in the clutch basket. I want to keep this bike light. Thanks Keith for the vid. It's got me thinking. Cheers Dave
G'day Dave, glad I got you thinking! Yes it's one of the mods for the 500 that generates tons of questions. I am still mostly agreeing with you - you don't really need it. But since I decided I wanted a second set of wheels (one soft, one hard), I thought I'd try to answer the questions myself. I plan to use the cush hub for the harder tyres and thus the more "ADV" long range rides, where weight is perhaps less an issue. I'll put some soft knobbies on the stock wheels and use those for the single track/trail ride day trips, with less weight on board.
I’ve switched between Cush and non Cush hub on my 2012 bike that also have the rubber damped clutch. Conclusion is that it really makes a difference to how the bike feels. There is less chain-slapp at low rpm. The on-off jerk between gas / engine breaking is reduced and the bike feels overall smoother. It’s definitely not something you need for the sake of the gearbox but comfort wise I would put it up there together with a seat upgrade!
Its been common knowledge since about 2003 that a cush drive hube and balancing your wheels makes a huge difference in smoothness and transmission life on the big ktm singles. We used to use the lc4 hubs. After 2012 the big ktm s all use a cush drive in the clutch . Of course adding a cush drive hub still helps a bit with chan slap and adds a little smoothness.
isnt the point of cush hubs less about a different feel and more about wear/maintenance on drive train? Ideally you wouldnt notice a single thing about the ride but you would extend the life of your chain/tyres/clutch/sprockets.
Hi mate, really appreciate your videos, thanks. Just wanted to follow up on the cush hub and see how your liking it? issues? any negatives? thanks in advance
It's one of those things that just blends into the background, so I guess it works fine!. Last big trip, no issues at all. No negatives that I can think of.
A cush hub isn’t worth the extra maintenance, weight and complexity on the 500. The dampers are in the clutch to negate any transmission/gearbox wear when riding hard on the road. Guys have rode 500’s around the world without a cush hub. I’d keep the money for gas and beer instead.
Not that I doubt your objectivity Keith, but after what was probably considerable outlay for the cush hub wheel you would be hoping hard to notice a difference lol. Even if only a small difference was noticed the benefit to the clutch chain and g/box must surely be there. Good vid and something I have thought about long and hard at times. Of course there are slipper clutches which is quite clever thinking a la the crf honda L and Rally. Thanks for sharing
Yeah the cush hub is more about protecting your gearbox and the rest of your driveline from harsh feedback on hard surfaces than actual comfort or ride feel. For me I actually would find it a benefit if the ride feel isn't impacted too much
Hey keath Can I ask on one of your vids you looked into getting the Cush hubs did more research realising that there is a Cush drive clutch set up coming to the decision that it was not needed then few months later did this vid with obvious change of hart what and why did you decide to spend the extra cash on a Cush drive hub ?
two reasons - firstly to answer the question for myself whether it's noticeable; and second, because I wanted another set of wheels, so I can run soft tyres and hard tyres without changing tyres all the time.
Yes, I have a video on doing exactly that because I couldn't find a source for buying replacement KKE ones, as a bonus the KTM ones do look nicer quality, check it out if you need the part number (i cant post it here, I just tried and RUclips auto deleted it, must think its a phone number or something)
Your not going to notice any riding difference, just less counter shaft seal blow outs if you do alot of road riding lol thats the point of cush hubs. Road riding and limiting jolting to your gearbox and seals
The cush is by no means a requirement, esp for protecting the motor, the internal clutch hub does a pretty good job on that. I've been riding with a cush wheel for 200 hrs and switch back to the OEM rear wheel with different gearing and tire for more serious dirt biking. Both wheels are balanced and the cush is preferable on DS rides where there's some pavement. At that point it's benefit is immediately obvious, no chain snatch and it's smoothens the engine pulses that are felt through the drivetrain. I use the bike for 2 purposes, dual sport and as a straight up dirt bike. The cush wheel is geared differently and has a DS tire, the stock wheel has lower gearing and and runs a tire I wouldn't want to chew up on the street. 10min swap that transforms the bike from one use to another. If you only or mostly ride dirt it's weight penalty outweighs the benefit IMO.
I’ve fitted the Mox cush sprocket on super moto rear seems very smooth
I’ve had one on my 500 for 5000 km and the gearbox is the best I’ve ever experienced on a Dirtbike, clutchless up and down shifting. Every bike apart from comp bikes come with them so that must tell us something.
The point of a cush drive hub is to lessen the impacts to gear teeth face under higher than normal traction like asphalt riding long distance. But this was before KTM had started installing a version of this in the clutch basket effectively doing the same thing in a much cleaner/controlled encironment. 5 lbs of unsprung weight is a very neg effect on rear suspension which I think throws the value equation in favor of stock non- cush wheel. JM2C
Problem is, the clutch Cush is on the crank side of the gearbox doesn’t help the gearbox much on the output to chain side.
@@benlondon8467 sure about this? Wherever it is, it’s part of the transmission, it must have a effect.
@@miro_s I’m very sure how it works, it does help , but it doesn’t help the pulses from the back wheel to chain to output side of gearbox , it only helps the pulses from crank to input side of gearbox.
Cush hub is still a must if lots of Tar riding is done.
@@benlondon8467 I can appreciate where you're coming from, and I think it does make a difference, like your saying, but the people with 50k-75k miles on 520 and 525 stock transmission gears say otherwise lol.
@@CumminsTurbo4 yep, 700hrs about 40k kilometres out of dirt bike gear box treated nice, with minimal tar riding.
150hrs 5/6k kilometres all tar riding it hard.
I’ve blown a gearbox in 12 months Supermoto. Personally I’ve learnt many lessons over my 40years of riding bikes. I’ve had many bike failures, shit happens. Each to their own 🤙, I mod what I ride to suit how I ride & where. It all helps a little.
I had no doubt that you were going to like the cush wheel! 👍
I'm assuming your bike is a late model and if so the clutch basket is rubber mounted so what difference would it make? Two lots of rubber? One at the clutch basket and one on the hub to absorb the snap. Is it really necessary, particularly considering the weight penalty? I'm just about to do a Husky 501 build and this is the most perplexing part of the build. All my mates on 500s say, 'Mate you don't need it, the cush is in the clutch basket. I want to keep this bike light. Thanks Keith for the vid. It's got me thinking. Cheers Dave
G'day Dave, glad I got you thinking! Yes it's one of the mods for the 500 that generates tons of questions. I am still mostly agreeing with you - you don't really need it. But since I decided I wanted a second set of wheels (one soft, one hard), I thought I'd try to answer the questions myself. I plan to use the cush hub for the harder tyres and thus the more "ADV" long range rides, where weight is perhaps less an issue. I'll put some soft knobbies on the stock wheels and use those for the single track/trail ride day trips, with less weight on board.
I’ve switched between Cush and non Cush hub on my 2012 bike that also have the rubber damped clutch. Conclusion is that it really makes a difference to how the bike feels. There is less chain-slapp at low rpm. The on-off jerk between gas / engine breaking is reduced and the bike feels overall smoother.
It’s definitely not something you need for the sake of the gearbox but comfort wise I would put it up there together with a seat upgrade!
@@hekke90 Thanks Hampus
@@keithjob Thanks Keith
Honeslty, I think all of us looking at true lightweight ADV are wondering the same thing. That and servicing.
After using cush hubs for many years in dirt bikes I laughed at your vid when you tried to convince yourself your clutch basket was doing same job
I sent you a msg a while back, I said the cush was a game changer, the gearbox and counter shaft will love you for it
Its been common knowledge since about 2003 that a cush drive hube and balancing your wheels makes a huge difference in smoothness and transmission life on the big ktm singles.
We used to use the lc4 hubs. After 2012 the big ktm s all use a cush drive in the clutch . Of course adding a cush drive hub still helps a bit with chan slap and adds a little smoothness.
I would think that it would help with chain and driveline wear also.
Thanks, Keith - very valuable product report!
Thanks Larry!
Was thinking about the same thing….. still undecided.
How are the KKE wheels holding up?
8 months later, still wondering...
Does my 300 exc need a cush drive? Planning to supermoto it for the summer.
isnt the point of cush hubs less about a different feel and more about wear/maintenance on drive train? Ideally you wouldnt notice a single thing about the ride but you would extend the life of your chain/tyres/clutch/sprockets.
I’d say it’s as much about feel as it is for reduced wear. It takes away some of the harshness both for gearbox and for the rider.
Hi mate, really appreciate your videos, thanks. Just wanted to follow up on the cush hub and see how your liking it? issues? any negatives? thanks in advance
It's one of those things that just blends into the background, so I guess it works fine!. Last big trip, no issues at all. No negatives that I can think of.
@@keithjobnegatives would be extra unsprung weight & extra hub maintenance?.
A cush hub isn’t worth the extra maintenance, weight and complexity on the 500. The dampers are in the clutch to negate any transmission/gearbox wear when riding hard on the road. Guys have rode 500’s around the world without a cush hub. I’d keep the money for gas and beer instead.
Not that I doubt your objectivity Keith, but after what was probably considerable outlay for the cush hub wheel you would be hoping hard to notice a difference lol. Even if only a small difference was noticed the benefit to the clutch chain and g/box must surely be there. Good vid and something I have thought about long and hard at times. Of course there are slipper clutches which is quite clever thinking a la the crf honda L and Rally. Thanks for sharing
Yeah the cush hub is more about protecting your gearbox and the rest of your driveline from harsh feedback on hard surfaces than actual comfort or ride feel. For me I actually would find it a benefit if the ride feel isn't impacted too much
What about the internal crush hub I think you mentioned earlier?
Hey keath
Can I ask on one of your vids you looked into getting the Cush hubs did more research realising that there is a Cush drive clutch set up coming to the decision that it was not needed then few months later did this vid with obvious change of hart what and why did you decide to spend the extra cash on a Cush drive hub ?
two reasons - firstly to answer the question for myself whether it's noticeable; and second, because I wanted another set of wheels, so I can run soft tyres and hard tyres without changing tyres all the time.
Probably notice a difference climbing loose rocks.
If your brake disc rubbed on old pads it would have been worse with new ones!
I'll save the money and buy my wife some new jewelry instead. NOT !
Can u replace the rubbers with stock ktm cush rubbers
Yes, I have a video on doing exactly that because I couldn't find a source for buying replacement KKE ones, as a bonus the KTM ones do look nicer quality, check it out if you need the part number (i cant post it here, I just tried and RUclips auto deleted it, must think its a phone number or something)
After paying $1000+ you’ll be convinced of anything
Your not going to notice any riding difference, just less counter shaft seal blow outs if you do alot of road riding lol thats the point of cush hubs. Road riding and limiting jolting to your gearbox and seals
ΚΚΕ ΔΥΝΑΤΟ
First!