The shroud is such a great discussion, I've read mych about the science behind it, and the newer discoveries on it. What's real is that as time goes on and technology is revealing much more in it, that no hoaxer would ever be able to anticipate hundreds of years ago. That to me is proof, but yet it keeps going from there, too much to comment on, i just want everyone to go on a deep dive on it to make up their own mind. It sure seems miraculous the more you look into it. It warms my heart to see the passion come through in new technology, this is spectacular evidence for science minded skeptics
I cry listening each time…. How The most loving peaceful Man whom walked earth to be treated in such a horrifying manner. Human beings are evil demonic possessed monsters.
@@shable1436 The problem is that we are all born in sin; therefore, from birth, we are under God's condemnation. There is no escape from God's wrathful judgment except through Christ. This is why Jesus died for sin - when we believe in Christ, our souls become regenerate and we are born again - spiritually, we die with Christ and are raised to new life in Christ's resurrection - and His perfect righteousness is imputed to us as a free gift, which effectuates justification with God. We then live lives of holy, Spirit-empowered obedience to God and His law as we are sanctified gradually during this life. It's a process of having been saved immediately when we place our faith in Christ; and then we are being saved as we are conformed to be like Him more and more in the Spirit, and then being saved once we die physically such that our souls are alive with God in heaven; and then being finally saved when Christ returns to the earth and raises us from the dead and we receive "resurrection" bodies. We then live for eternity in the light of Christ our King in the new heavens and new earth.
@@shable1436yeah and making sure someone suffers to the highest degree.. sadistic. But even with all that Christ was willing to forgive his executioners... thats just mindblowing.
great respect for Dr Habermas he gives all objective points from his connections to other scholars and scientist then allows us to make our own conclusions which his own obvious conclusions
Dr Habermas I love you!! I know all your work was not meant to be what it is today but have no idea of how many lives and brains you have touch with your work. So I humbly say: thank you!
Dr. Habermas along with Michael Licona in their book the case for the resurrection literally brought me back to Jesus in 2016. The resurrection was my last stumbling block. Thank you so much!
Also add the Sudarium to that mix as well. What about the odds of creating the shroud and the sudarium that matches with 120 blood stains? And if you believe the carbon dating, both are 700 years apart. So super-human that can create 2 fakes 700 years apart from each other with real blood, dust, and pollin. And here is the best, fool the latest science that shows the shroud does go back to the time of Jesus !!! WAXS
When a sperm enters an egg a spark of light happens. All life starts with light. It only makes sense when Jesus resurrected his body gave off light. Life is light.
It's not. It has been proved to be a forgery about a dozen times. I'm not sure why it even pops up again and again. Just one tiny detail already debunks it - the anatomy is all wrong and a body can't even be in the position depicted on the shroud.
Proof of God would be proof of the Devil, the shroud has the miraculous image of Jesus, it has pollen and dust from tomb area, it also shows the Devil, the scorching, around the unburnt image of Jesus. The shroud is a genuine article, only article that proves God and Devil. Thank u Jesus for ur sacrifice i am eternally grateful.
To add to information: On June 8, 1973, in Globe, Arizona (about 100 miles north of the University of Arizona where the shroud was analyzed) this was spoken by spiritual messengers of God through a man (Ray Elkins) in prophecy. "And now we should answer this question you have had within your minds of the shroud. First, we should answer in this manner, as the body of the one known as Jesus was taken, therefore, from the cross, that those who bare him and the bearers who carried him brought for the body, and there, both of the first wrappings were taken place, but the ointments were first applied to the body. This was done very soon after the death itself, as the oils and the ointments of the chemicals within the same were used to cleanse the body, and then the body was wrapped much, as you would know, in a mummified state. After this was done, cloth that was soaked in the same ointment was used in such a manner as you would cover a body with a blanket.
"Now, as we have said before, as those who would come upon the morn, therefore they found within the tomb both shrouds, as you would know it. The true shroud would be that into which the body was wrapped of cloth. Yet, the second was also true, and this is which you have spoke about.
"The wrappings themselves were never recovered from the tomb.
"They were passed from living disciple to living disciple, yet there to stay with John in exile. But the impression, or the picture form, which should show upon this shroud was a distorted, at best. Yet, if you should mix the same chemicals, secreting that which come from the body as the soul should leave the body and make ready for the resurrection, you shall find that it should give you picture form, much of the manner unto which you have.
"But you must understand, from boyhood to manhood, this one known as Jesus was touched by God, and therefore, as the scars of life should show upon each man and woman, so should the scars of goodliness, that which should become the blessed one, the Lamb of God."
I became aware of the Shroud when I was a teenager (I'm 62 now). I have always thought it was authentic, if for no other reason than there is no method anybody has presented to duplicate it. That being said, someone pointed something out that, once one sees it, one cannot unsee: The head is not proportionate to the body. It is smaller than it should be. Anybody have any thoughts on what might account for this? It is very odd.
42:00.... maybe Greek does not have the word for a wrist but Greek does have the word for a hand palm (παλάμη)... while hand in Greek is χείρ... that could mean that nail was not in the hand palm but some other place on the hand...
“ IF “ this be the shroud of Christ then can absolutely guarantee only an NDE to produce the image… I’ve had 2 Nde’s one at 11 yrs & one at 33 yrs… My childhood one ( too long for comment section ) returning to body yet still ungrounded, one must become fully grounded, I touched my uncle lightly… hence he received a massive bruise, became terribly angry, the pain & his shock … energy radiating thru my arm to his body… My mother insisted ide obviously whacked him.. NO NEVER…they couldn’t understand, an NDE an over the top experience at any age… On the other hand a present day representative of Nights Templar insists, a podcast I watched that Da Vinci whilst developing some kind of engineering, ( filming techno apparatus) said he made the shroud for the Vatican.. If he had that knowledge, we know nothing would surprise with Leonardo, then he certainly also had the details of the crucifixion & enough corpses at his disposal & inflict whatever necessary for the set up, the claim is Da Vincis face is substituted for the one of Christ on the shroud plus saying the coins are incorrect, not from the time of Christ but later minted ??? Idk but like most ide always believed to be Christs shroud & due my own experience enough for me to understand the radiated energy, is massive … ide hoped beyond hope that yes is the shroud of Christ, an NDE & managed somehow to miraculously escape, continue on with his teaching
The face in Turin shroud is the face of the great father Jesus father the creator of heaven and earth who bring me in mount Sinai in Arabian desert through my dream. Jesus Christ and the great father has the same face but having age differences and color , Jesus Christ body full of light no one can see his skin color his face ages in the other side of life is like between 20 to 40, But the Great Father has skin color from light to dark brown his face age between 60 to 90 years old and he is always remain in that ages. We have two God's The great father and the son of God Jesus, two body one mind same face.
Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum, one of the world’s foremost experts in the Jewish roots of the bible has detailed that the jewish burial custom of the time was actually to use strips of cloth, not one whole cloth, so this shroud would not used in a jewish burial. He talks about this is Yeshua The Life of Messiah.
Perhaps @Melissab7777 you might provide which volume and page number, and even the direct word-for-word quote. Then we could see whether Dr. Fruchtenbaum was speaking of Jewish burial customs in general or speaking of Jesus' burial in particular.
The burial of Christ was done in haste. It’s very possible that they had to use what was available to them. Very possibly this shroud was given to them by Joseph of Arimathea, who also donated his future tomb.
@ However we know God had already chosen the exact timing for Jesus’ death. As the Jewish Messiah had to keep and fulfill the law of Moses perfectly, to be able to be the spotless Passover lamb. Let’s also not forget that the tomb Jesus was to be buried in was already spoken of in Isaiah. It would be highly unlikely for his Jewish family to forgo their traditions and embrace gentile burial practices when there is no indication they embraced gentile practices anywhere else in scripture, before or after his death.
All dishonest atheists are evidence-led until the evidence leads in a direction they are unwilling to go. Only yesterday, I saw one say eyewitness testimony isn't evidence, and indirect corroborative testimony isn't evidence. Proving they'd fail a Legal Degree day one, and blame the teacher for being ignorant of their higher personal views. If you don't think people like that don't end up running departments, think again.
This is another example of evidence provided no matter what will never satisfy the egos of non believers, for every solution they create another problem
If you want to know if the shroud is real just read the scripture. Jhn 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
The Sudarium of Oviedo is the head cloth and it matches the blood stain of the shroud. It dates to the year 600 AD in a church in Spain, so the shroud is not from the Middle Ages. The latest dating shows the shroud to be a couple thousand years old.
As millions of us know, he was covered (but not yet wrapped) in one long piece of linen. His image on there _proves_ that 100%. The strips of cloth were used to bind his body and for securing the Shroud to his body. His head was wrapped with a cloth after he died but was still on the cross. After Joesph of Arimathea and Nicodemus brought Jesus into the tomb it was removed and set aside. It was _not_ put back on him.
The BIBLE is CLEAR that there was NO single shroud that Jesus was wrapped in, but linen cloths, with a single cloth or "towel" that was wrapped around his head SEPARATE from multiple linen cloths that was wrapped around his body, as John 20:3-7 states: "Then Peter and the other disciple (John) set out for the tomb. The two of them began running together, but the other disciple ran faster than Peter and reached the tomb first. Stooping forward, he saw the linen cloths (PLURAL, "linen cloths", Greek othonion, meaning "a linen bandage, strips of linen") lying there, but he did not go in." "Then Simon Peter also came, following him, and he went into the tomb. And he saw the linen cloths (PLURAL, "linen cloths", Greek othonion, meaning "a linen bandage, strips of linen") lying there. The cloth (single, Greek soudarion, meaning "a sweat cloth, i.e. towel, as for binding the face of a corpse", see Luke 19:20 where it was used to keep money in; Acts 19:12 where "cloths" that touched the apostle Paul's body took away sicknesses and expelled demons) that had been on his (Jesus) head was NOT lying with the OTHER cloth bands (PLURAL, Greek othonion) but was rolled up in a place by itself." Upon Lazarus death, he was wrapped in a similar way as Jesus (as was the Jewish custom), with a cloth (Greek soudarion or a towel) wrapped around his head and the rest of the body wrapped in different cloths (Greek keiria, meaning "a swath, i.e. winding sheet", such as linen) when he was laid in a tomb, for John 11:44 states: "The man who had been dead came out with his feet and hands bound with wrappings (plural, Greek keiria, meaning "a swath, i.e. winding sheet"), and his face was wrapped with a (single) cloth ("cloth", Greek soudarion, meaning "a sweat cloth, i.e. towel"). Jesus said to them: “Free him and let him go.” So, what Jesus (and Lazarus) was wrapped in was NOT even remotely a "shroud", but a series of cloths, one for the head (a towel or sweat cloth), and the rest of the body with wrappings or linen cloths, like taking a roll of medical gauze and wrapping a wound, going round and round until covered. The Shroud of Turin (that is 14 ft long) has been shown as a fake, dated around the 13th/14th century C.E. by three prestigious laboratories, at the University of Arizona, at Oxford, and at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, with each not revealing their results, but were each sent independently to the British Museum for certification in 1988 C.E., whereby the Shroud of Turin was dated as from 1260-1390 C.E.(Note: Jesus did NOT have long hair, for 1 Cor 11:14 says that "long hair is a dishonor for a man") But Catholics (and others) will reject the sound evidence and still cling to the false belief that it is "the image of Jesus". It will be their loss, for these ones are like what the Bible "book" of Proverbs states: "The naive person believes every word", eager to accept whatever the Catholic church teaches without doing any "homework", being "a pushover", while "the shrewd one (or TRUE Christians) ponders each step", "vetting" everything to establish what is "the truth" and NOT be fooled.(Prov 14:15)
@@shable1436 The apostle John CLEARLY established what Jesus was wrapped, a series of "cloths" at John 20:3-7, and NOT one single shroud. The Bible trumps over everything else, such as any "scientific evidence". But you shove aside what was written through Jesus apostle.
@@timhaley3459 As millions of us know, he was covered (but not yet wrapped) in one long piece of linen. His image on there _proves_ that 100%. The strips of cloth were used to bind his body and for securing the Shroud to his body. His head was wrapped with a cloth after he died but was still on the cross. After Joesph of Arimathea and Nicodemus brought Jesus into the tomb it was removed and set aside. It was _not_ put back on him.
@@timhaley3459There is another cloth that matches the shroud with same blood stains. The Sudarium of Oviedo. It matches the gospels accurately and Isiah 53
I saw a RUclips video where a man and some of his acquaintances used the sun's rays to create... through glass, to create goofy images that mimic the way the image is on the shroud.
Thousands of attempts have been made trying to fake the image on the Shroud. Not a one of them has been 100% successful in all ways. Must be a reason for that.
Bishop of Troyes called it a fake in 1390. He told pope clement VII that it was fake and knew of a bishop who knew the artist that made it. Pope clement declared it a man made icon but allowed the church to continue to display it.
Yes, this is the first historical report of the shroud. They were also having stooges engage in fake healings in front of it in order to get donations.
How is behind a wall hermetically sealed? Also, what records state that it was discovered behind an airtight wall? Hermetically sealed sounds disingenuous to me, as i would tend to use the term for apple juice that was packaged in a modern, sophisticated food packaging facility.
This is something that has really bothered me.. doesn't change my beliefs but I can only come to the conclusion one has too be wrong.. scripture says it's a shame for a man too have long hair.. but the shroud shows Jesus as having long hair.. if it's a shame then Jesus wouldn't have long hair or someone injected this into scripture.
It’s definitely not authentic because it would be, in a sense, a worship of images, which the Bible is strongly against [Exodus 20:4]. God would not leave His image to be worshipped.
Shortly after the 1978 samples were taken, the box it was contained in was treated for a fungal infection, and the Shroud replaced in it. BUT.... the powder used interferes with the carbon count used for dating by adding to it. That was established in the 1980s. So, 6 nondestructive tests were done on fibres separated from the cotton repair - i.e., original material - and redated to +/- 50 years of AD 30. As well as other tests invalidating the Medieval dating. Now that the FOIR of original tests is in the public domain, the glaring misrepresentation and selective edits and publishing are clear to all. It'll literally take hundreds of years for those added carbons to decay and would be indistinguishable from Turin carbons from the cloth.
@keesvan52 Not quite accurate. During the 2002 restoration, conducted by the Commission for the Conservation of the Shroud between 20 June and 22 July, thirty triangular patches, sewn by nuns in 1534, as well as the Holland cloth, were removed. The 2002 restoration has been criticized as causing damage to the Shroud. There was no treatment added to the cloth; foreign Medieval materials were removed.
Which shroud. During the Middle Age race for relics, there were dozens of shrouds-all as fake as the wood of the true cross. Relics were big business. Bones, hair, etc. so far, ALL have fallen very short in age when C-14 tested.
Here's old video evidence: ruclips.net/video/QRf_sw731GI/видео.htmlsi=mwuOgoJHUCaFISae This artifact should be more about the blood than the shroud. If this is Jesus's blood, applying water to it will show living particles in His blood. There are no living particles in dead blood. Only living blood. We can visually see in this old video that living things are still alive within Jesus's blood.
Hi Jesus blood will never lose its power. You are have the shroud that covered Jesus evidently, surely something must happen. Jesus was alive and the lady with the issue of blood held the hemp of his garment, Jesus knew it. Help me understand that if it is the shroud, something supernatural has to take place. I listen to the evidence, but the supernatural part of is when touching the shroud, nothing happens. This is what im thinking from the supernatural side of this and being on the body of the all powerful supernatural Saviour. 🤔
Riddle me this: If I take a foot wide 3D globe of the earth and flatten it out, how wide is that flat, 2D map representation? Is it still only a foot wide? That new map you have just created will probably be more like 2 1/2 feet wide. Same with the face on this shroud. It was WRAPPED AROUND a head. Why does is look like a photo? Because the person who faked it thinks in 2D like he was looking at a painting. It doesn't work like that. Sorry. I am a believer and a pastor, and I think fakes like this diminish our witness and I don't appreciate it. Faith does not come by waving a fake shroud around. Paul wrote "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God." Not through fake artifacts.
You dont need to mention that you are pastor or believer to deal with tbe reality before you. Its your fear that makes you think that a damn cloth, ( a cloth !!!) can hold a 3D image 😂😂. A linen cloth cant hold that depth of image, Pastor.
@@Christusvinci I have no fear. And I mention my faith to proclaim I am not simply an unbeliever or atheist who IS intimidated or hateful and simply wishes to debunk biblical things or mock people of faith. And no, I do not believe a cloth can and would hold an image at all, unless God wants it. But if God wants it, He will follow his own modeling and do things in a consistent way. And I do not say the imprint would be a 3D image. I am saying, as with my example, that when you take something that exists in three dimensions and you flatten it out as with the cloth, it will be much wider. Try this; Go get a couple of paper towels. Wet a volunteer's face with water or oil. Now gently place it around the front of that person's head, at least from ear to ear. Mark those ears. Outline them or something. Now remove the paper towel and spread it on a table or countertop. Measure or simply observe how very wide apart the ears are. Tada! The shroud is a fake.
@Harpadzo thats why I said you haven't looked this shroud objectively, that's why I sense I deep fear lest you be labelled superstitious. Now look at the following: 1. There is NO liquid on the cloth ( nada!!! including oil). 2. The image is only sits ever so lightly on the surface of the cloth like in nanos (indicating that it's not a scorch, so no heat involved). 3. It has a 3D image on a cloth. A linen cloth for that matter. 4. The image is x-ray like and holographic at the same time( which is not even possible technologically). 5. Its a Photographic negative, (only exposed by light and the image when revealed is so detailed that you can see even the type of marks the flagrum left on his body and even count them.. 6. the image is non directional(meaning that it was created all at once and there are no brush marks on the cloth). I am not even talking bout the historical evidence of the cloth with dates back to Jerusalem, Edessa, Constantinople. So the issue is that there is NO phenomenon on earth that can create an image with a combination of those Features. Common Pastor🙄!
@@Harpadzoyou know this shroud has anomalies that as technology has advanced that more is shown to be real, not the carbon data from repairs, but the actual things that nobody would know back in middle ages to be shown hundreds of years in the future
Many atheists are very disingenuous. Romans 10:3 KJV - For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
@@beverlyhurd8556all intelligent people with common sense know that the image is absolutely impossible to be the way it is if it ever was wrapped around a human body.
@@MrSeedi76 Yes, but all intelligent people with common sense know that it was *never* wrapped around his body. Jesus was laid down on the bottom half and the top half was folded over him. His image on the shroud is 100% proof of this. A bit of actual shroud study would do you a world of good, I think.
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."
@@SimpleCivil The Shroud image is so incredible that the burden of proof rests on those who think it is a forgery. STURP team spent over two years preparing a series of tests that would gather a vast amount of Shroud data in a relatively short period of time. STURP's primary goal was to determine the scientific properties of the image on the Shroud of Turin, and what might have caused it: After years of exhaustive study and evaluation of the data, STURP issued its Final Report in 1981: "We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist." "The answer to the question of how the image was produced or what produced the image remains, now, as it has in the past, a mystery." No one has ever proven these 33 scientists and engineers wrong. All were part of leading tech firms. Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories* Lockheed Corporation* U.S. Air Force Weapons Laboratories* Brooks Institute of Photography* University of Colorado* Oceanographic Services Inc.* Nuclear Technology Corporation* U.S. Air Force Academy* Jet Propulsion Laboratory* Sandia National Laboratory*, etc. The STRUP team included three Jewish members, one Mormon, one Evangelical, several Catholics, several Protestants and some avowed atheists and agnostics. Had religion ever been a criterion for membership, most of the STURP team members would never have agreed to participate. The notion that it is a forgery (a painting, other work of art) has been disproved so thoroughly and absolutely that it is permanently buried; they are based in part on the denial of empirical data. The scholarly consensus a mere 60 years ago deemed the Shroud a medieval fraud; the present evidence allows a firm archaeological judgement for authenticity.
@ yes Barrie Swortz. Great guy- I knew him. He was part of the STURP team. At the time a total skeptic but after studying the Shroud a true believer in its authenticity.
I love these discussions, I can never hear too much of it. Powerful evidence that the world should take note!
❤❤❤❤❤❤
The shroud is such a great discussion, I've read mych about the science behind it, and the newer discoveries on it. What's real is that as time goes on and technology is revealing much more in it, that no hoaxer would ever be able to anticipate hundreds of years ago. That to me is proof, but yet it keeps going from there, too much to comment on, i just want everyone to go on a deep dive on it to make up their own mind. It sure seems miraculous the more you look into it. It warms my heart to see the passion come through in new technology, this is spectacular evidence for science minded skeptics
Thank you for your hard work Dr. Habermas!
I cry listening each time….
How The most loving peaceful Man whom walked earth to be treated in such a horrifying manner. Human beings are evil demonic possessed monsters.
It's called sin. And we all have it.
@@MaryellenS.13 that’s what the story says anyway. If the story is accurate is another story.
@@PaDutchRunnertrue but killing is much high degree of sin than others
@@shable1436 The problem is that we are all born in sin; therefore, from birth, we are under God's condemnation. There is no escape from God's wrathful judgment except through Christ. This is why Jesus died for sin - when we believe in Christ, our souls become regenerate and we are born again - spiritually, we die with Christ and are raised to new life in Christ's resurrection - and His perfect righteousness is imputed to us as a free gift, which effectuates justification with God. We then live lives of holy, Spirit-empowered obedience to God and His law as we are sanctified gradually during this life. It's a process of having been saved immediately when we place our faith in Christ; and then we are being saved as we are conformed to be like Him more and more in the Spirit, and then being saved once we die physically such that our souls are alive with God in heaven; and then being finally saved when Christ returns to the earth and raises us from the dead and we receive "resurrection" bodies. We then live for eternity in the light of Christ our King in the new heavens and new earth.
@@shable1436yeah and making sure someone suffers to the highest degree.. sadistic. But even with all that Christ was willing to forgive his executioners... thats just mindblowing.
great respect for Dr Habermas he gives all objective points from his connections to other scholars and scientist then allows us to make our own conclusions which his own obvious conclusions
If our bodies were to be disolved we know we have a house made without hands in the heavenlies.
Lets go dear Dr. !!!! God bless!!!
I wish someone like Mel Gibson would make a movie about all these discoveries on the Shroud.
Watch the resurrection of Jesus Christ scene of the Passion of the Christ. How He dematerialized. Yea thats from the shroud.
Greetings from Brazil, dr gary. I would love a new book and a movie about the shroud with the new evidence❤
Dr Habermas I love you!! I know all your work was not meant to be what it is today but have no idea of how many lives and brains you have touch with your work. So I humbly say: thank you!
Dr. Habermas along with Michael Licona in their book the case for the resurrection literally brought me back to Jesus in 2016. The resurrection was my last stumbling block. Thank you so much!
Jesus sent us a photograph of Himself
Can He send us an updated picture on Flickr?
He also told st faustina to paint him. It's the famous holy image
Not funny selfie joke
This!!!
Amen, the greatest selfie of all times..
how about this - what is the mathematical odds that the shroud is *not* authentic at this point?
Absolutely, my own thought too
Also add the Sudarium to that mix as well. What about the odds of creating the shroud and the sudarium that matches with 120 blood stains? And if you believe the carbon dating, both are 700 years apart. So super-human that can create 2 fakes 700 years apart from each other with real blood, dust, and pollin. And here is the best, fool the latest science that shows the shroud does go back to the time of Jesus !!! WAXS
When a sperm enters an egg a spark of light happens. All life starts with light. It only makes sense when Jesus resurrected his body gave off light. Life is light.
It's not. It has been proved to be a forgery about a dozen times. I'm not sure why it even pops up again and again.
Just one tiny detail already debunks it - the anatomy is all wrong and a body can't even be in the position depicted on the shroud.
Odds are huge it’s not authentic. Just looked at the carbon dating.
Proof of God would be proof of the Devil, the shroud has the miraculous image of Jesus, it has pollen and dust from tomb area, it also shows the Devil, the scorching, around the unburnt image of Jesus. The shroud is a genuine article, only article that proves God and Devil. Thank u Jesus for ur sacrifice i am eternally grateful.
The devil proof is all around us everyday, if someone doesn't see it then they are blind because they are afraid to admit it
To add to information: On June 8, 1973, in Globe, Arizona (about 100 miles north of the University of Arizona where the shroud was analyzed) this was spoken by spiritual messengers of God through a man (Ray Elkins) in prophecy.
"And now we should answer this question you have had within your minds of the shroud. First, we should answer in this manner, as the body of the one known as Jesus was taken, therefore, from the cross, that those who bare him and the bearers who carried him brought for the body, and there, both of the first wrappings were taken place, but the ointments were first applied to the body. This was done very soon after the death itself, as the oils and the ointments of the chemicals within the same were used to cleanse the body, and then the body was wrapped much, as you would know, in a mummified state. After this was done, cloth that was soaked in the same ointment was used in such a manner as you would cover a body with a blanket.
"Now, as we have said before, as those who would come upon the morn, therefore they found within the tomb both shrouds, as you would know it. The true shroud would be that into which the body was wrapped of cloth. Yet, the second was also true, and this is which you have spoke about.
"The wrappings themselves were never recovered from the tomb.
"They were passed from living disciple to living disciple, yet there to stay with John in exile.
But the impression, or the picture form, which should show upon this shroud was a distorted, at best. Yet, if you should mix the same chemicals, secreting that which come from the body as the soul should leave the body and make ready for the resurrection, you shall find that it should give you picture form, much of the manner unto which you have.
"But you must understand, from boyhood to manhood, this one known as Jesus was touched by God, and therefore, as the scars of life should show upon each man and woman, so should the scars of goodliness, that which should become the blessed one, the Lamb of God."
*❤Habermas❤from Kerala*
I became aware of the Shroud when I was a teenager (I'm 62 now). I have always thought it was authentic, if for no other reason than there is no method anybody has presented to duplicate it. That being said, someone pointed something out that, once one sees it, one cannot unsee: The head is not proportionate to the body. It is smaller than it should be. Anybody have any thoughts on what might account for this? It is very odd.
42:00.... maybe Greek does not have the word for a wrist but Greek does have the word for a hand palm (παλάμη)... while hand in Greek is χείρ... that could mean that nail was not in the hand palm but some other place on the hand...
“ IF “ this be the shroud of Christ then can absolutely guarantee only an NDE to produce the image… I’ve had 2 Nde’s one at 11 yrs & one at 33 yrs… My childhood one ( too long for comment section ) returning to body yet still ungrounded, one must become fully grounded, I touched my uncle lightly… hence he received a massive bruise, became terribly angry, the pain & his shock … energy radiating thru my arm to his body… My mother insisted ide obviously whacked him.. NO NEVER…they couldn’t understand, an NDE an over the top experience at any age…
On the other hand a present day representative of Nights Templar insists, a podcast I watched that
Da Vinci whilst developing some kind of engineering, ( filming techno apparatus) said he made the shroud for the Vatican.. If he had that knowledge, we know nothing would surprise with Leonardo, then he certainly also had the details of the crucifixion & enough corpses at his disposal & inflict whatever necessary for the set up, the claim is Da Vincis face is substituted for the one of Christ on the shroud plus saying the coins are incorrect, not from the time of Christ but later minted ??? Idk but like most ide always believed to be Christs shroud & due my own experience enough for me to understand the radiated energy, is massive … ide hoped beyond hope that yes is the shroud of Christ, an NDE & managed somehow to miraculously escape, continue on with his teaching
The face in Turin shroud is the face of the great father Jesus father the creator of heaven and earth who bring me in mount Sinai in Arabian desert through my dream. Jesus Christ and the great father has the same face but having age differences and color , Jesus Christ body full of light no one can see his skin color his face ages in the other side of life is like between 20 to 40, But the Great Father has skin color from light to dark brown his face age between 60 to 90 years old and he is always remain in that ages. We have two God's The great father and the son of God Jesus, two body one mind same face.
Those who refuse to believe in spite of the evidence really are going to live an eternity in a hellish state. The proud man refuses to repent.
Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum, one of the world’s foremost experts in the Jewish roots of the bible has detailed that the jewish burial custom of the time was actually to use strips of cloth, not one whole cloth, so this shroud would not used in a jewish burial. He talks about this is Yeshua The Life of Messiah.
Perhaps @Melissab7777 you might provide which volume and page number, and even the direct word-for-word quote. Then we could see whether Dr. Fruchtenbaum was speaking of Jewish burial customs in general or speaking of Jesus' burial in particular.
The burial of Christ was done in haste.
It’s very possible that they had to use what was available to them.
Very possibly this shroud was given to them by Joseph of Arimathea, who also donated his future tomb.
@ However we know God had already chosen the exact timing for Jesus’ death. As the Jewish Messiah had to keep and fulfill the law of Moses perfectly, to be able to be the spotless Passover lamb. Let’s also not forget that the tomb Jesus was to be buried in was already spoken of in Isaiah. It would be highly unlikely for his Jewish family to forgo their traditions and embrace gentile burial practices when there is no indication they embraced gentile practices anywhere else in scripture, before or after his death.
No, the shroud is fully consisent with Jewish burial customs. The strips were used to wrap arpund the body and the linen cloth.
@ you are right about that.
The strips went around the shroud
All dishonest atheists are evidence-led until the evidence leads in a direction they are unwilling to go. Only yesterday, I saw one say eyewitness testimony isn't evidence, and indirect corroborative testimony isn't evidence. Proving they'd fail a Legal Degree day one, and blame the teacher for being ignorant of their higher personal views. If you don't think people like that don't end up running departments, think again.
Pride in their theirness, not Jesus'. Athiest.
I'm Christian and the shroud is still a forgery.
I think they mean it is not compelling enough evidence.
@MrSeedi76 Is that your opinion or after reviewing the 100,000 hours of research? I'm just curious.
This is another example of evidence provided no matter what will never satisfy the egos of non believers, for every solution they create another problem
If you want to know if the shroud is real just read the scripture.
Jhn 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
The Sudarium of Oviedo is the head cloth and it matches the blood stain of the shroud. It dates to the year 600 AD in a church in Spain, so the shroud is not from the Middle Ages. The latest dating shows the shroud to be a couple thousand years old.
As millions of us know, he was covered (but not yet wrapped) in one long piece of linen. His image on there _proves_ that 100%. The strips of cloth were used to bind his body and for securing the Shroud to his body. His head was wrapped with a cloth after he died but was still on the cross. After Joesph of Arimathea and Nicodemus brought Jesus into the tomb it was removed and set aside. It was _not_ put back on him.
I liked the interview and the many insights provided but why the Freemason hand symbolism at the end?🤔
The BIBLE is CLEAR that there was NO single shroud that Jesus was wrapped in, but linen cloths, with a single cloth or "towel" that was wrapped around his head SEPARATE from multiple linen cloths that was wrapped around his body, as John 20:3-7 states:
"Then Peter and the other disciple (John) set out for the tomb. The two of them began running together, but the other disciple ran faster than Peter and reached the tomb first. Stooping forward, he saw the linen cloths (PLURAL, "linen cloths", Greek othonion, meaning "a linen bandage, strips of linen") lying there, but he did not go in."
"Then Simon Peter also came, following him, and he went into the tomb. And he saw the linen cloths (PLURAL, "linen cloths", Greek othonion, meaning "a linen bandage, strips of linen") lying there. The cloth (single, Greek soudarion, meaning "a sweat cloth, i.e. towel, as for binding the face of a corpse", see Luke 19:20 where it was used to keep money in; Acts 19:12 where "cloths" that touched the apostle Paul's body took away sicknesses and expelled demons) that had been on his (Jesus) head was NOT lying with the OTHER cloth bands (PLURAL, Greek othonion) but was rolled up in a place by itself."
Upon Lazarus death, he was wrapped in a similar way as Jesus (as was the Jewish custom), with a cloth (Greek soudarion or a towel) wrapped around his head and the rest of the body wrapped in different cloths (Greek keiria, meaning "a swath, i.e. winding sheet", such as linen) when he was laid in a tomb, for John 11:44 states:
"The man who had been dead came out with his feet and hands bound with wrappings (plural, Greek keiria, meaning "a swath, i.e. winding sheet"), and his face was wrapped with a (single) cloth ("cloth", Greek soudarion, meaning "a sweat cloth, i.e. towel"). Jesus said to them: “Free him and let him go.”
So, what Jesus (and Lazarus) was wrapped in was NOT even remotely a "shroud", but a series of cloths, one for the head (a towel or sweat cloth), and the rest of the body with wrappings or linen cloths, like taking a roll of medical gauze and wrapping a wound, going round and round until covered.
The Shroud of Turin (that is 14 ft long) has been shown as a fake, dated around the 13th/14th century C.E. by three prestigious laboratories, at the University of Arizona, at Oxford, and at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, with each not revealing their results, but were each sent independently to the British Museum for certification in 1988 C.E., whereby the Shroud of Turin was dated as from 1260-1390 C.E.(Note: Jesus did NOT have long hair, for 1 Cor 11:14 says that "long hair is a dishonor for a man")
But Catholics (and others) will reject the sound evidence and still cling to the false belief that it is "the image of Jesus". It will be their loss, for these ones are like what the Bible "book" of Proverbs states:
"The naive person believes every word", eager to accept whatever the Catholic church teaches without doing any "homework", being "a pushover", while "the shrewd one (or TRUE Christians) ponders each step", "vetting" everything to establish what is "the truth" and NOT be fooled.(Prov 14:15)
Not true, it's whatever they had at the time, not just mummy wrappings, but shrouds was used as well during this time.
@@shable1436 The apostle John CLEARLY established what Jesus was wrapped, a series of "cloths" at John 20:3-7, and NOT one single shroud. The Bible trumps over everything else, such as any "scientific evidence". But you shove aside what was written through Jesus apostle.
@@timhaley3459 As millions of us know, he was covered (but not yet wrapped) in one long piece of linen. His image on there _proves_ that 100%. The strips of cloth were used to bind his body and for securing the Shroud to his body. His head was wrapped with a cloth after he died but was still on the cross. After Joesph of Arimathea and Nicodemus brought Jesus into the tomb it was removed and set aside. It was _not_ put back on him.
@@timhaley3459There is another cloth that matches the shroud with same blood stains. The Sudarium of Oviedo. It matches the gospels accurately and Isiah 53
I saw a RUclips video where a man and some of his acquaintances used the sun's rays to create... through glass, to create goofy images that mimic the way the image is on the shroud.
Thousands of attempts have been made trying to fake the image on the Shroud. Not a one of them has been 100% successful in all ways. Must be a reason for that.
@beverlyhurd8556 very true. The images were compelling, but still leave many unanswered questions.
Is he writing a book on this? Or is it the magnum opus on the Resurrection?
Bishop of Troyes called it a fake in 1390. He told pope clement VII that it was fake and knew of a bishop who knew the artist that made it. Pope clement declared it a man made icon but allowed the church to continue to display it.
the match with first century cloth is pretty compelling. A 14th c artist would not have been able to pull that off.
@ fabric is in a herringbone woven pattern that wasn’t around in the first century.
Yes, this is the first historical report of the shroud. They were also having stooges engage in fake healings in front of it in order to get donations.
@@SimpleCivil Your statement contradicts what they said in the video.
@ the difference is I quote from experts
How is behind a wall hermetically sealed? Also, what records state that it was discovered behind an airtight wall? Hermetically sealed sounds disingenuous to me, as i would tend to use the term for apple juice that was packaged in a modern, sophisticated food packaging facility.
Why wouldn’t it exist? Just like I kept a lack of hair when my mother passed. They kept the burial cloth once Jesus Rose.
This is something that has really bothered me.. doesn't change my beliefs but I can only come to the conclusion one has too be wrong.. scripture says it's a shame for a man too have long hair.. but the shroud shows Jesus as having long hair.. if it's a shame then Jesus wouldn't have long hair or someone injected this into scripture.
Jewish men of the 1st century did wear their hair shoulder length, the Romans had short hair..
It’s definitely not authentic because it would be, in a sense, a worship of images, which the Bible is strongly against [Exodus 20:4]. God would not leave His image to be worshipped.
I think that they should retest the cloth for carbon dating. Idk why the church doesnt allow it
That is no longer possible because the entire shroud was completely restored in 2002.
Shortly after the 1978 samples were taken, the box it was contained in was treated for a fungal infection, and the Shroud replaced in it. BUT.... the powder used interferes with the carbon count used for dating by adding to it. That was established in the 1980s. So, 6 nondestructive tests were done on fibres separated from the cotton repair - i.e., original material - and redated to +/- 50 years of AD 30. As well as other tests invalidating the Medieval dating. Now that the FOIR of original tests is in the public domain, the glaring misrepresentation and selective edits and publishing are clear to all. It'll literally take hundreds of years for those added carbons to decay and would be indistinguishable from Turin carbons from the cloth.
@keesvan52 Not quite accurate. During the 2002 restoration, conducted by the Commission for the Conservation of the Shroud between 20 June and 22 July, thirty triangular patches, sewn by nuns in 1534, as well as the Holland cloth, were removed. The 2002 restoration has been criticized as causing damage to the Shroud. There was no treatment added to the cloth; foreign Medieval materials were removed.
@@voiceofreason162the whole shroud is medieval 😂. So how could they have removed anything? They would have had to remove all of it.
@@MrSeedi76How do you explain paintings of the shroud that predates medieval times 😂
Which shroud. During the Middle Age race for relics, there were dozens of shrouds-all as fake as the wood of the true cross. Relics were big business. Bones, hair, etc. so far, ALL have fallen very short in age when C-14 tested.
Here's old video evidence:
ruclips.net/video/QRf_sw731GI/видео.htmlsi=mwuOgoJHUCaFISae
This artifact should be more about the blood than the shroud.
If this is Jesus's blood, applying water to it will show living particles in His blood.
There are no living particles in dead blood. Only living blood.
We can visually see in this old video that living things are still alive within Jesus's blood.
@@Chris_A. Great find. Thank you for sharing that. Science. Evidence. Perspicacity.
Occam’s razor
Hi
Jesus blood will never lose its power.
You are have the shroud that covered Jesus evidently, surely something must happen. Jesus was alive and the lady with the issue of blood held the hemp of his garment, Jesus knew it.
Help me understand that if it is the shroud, something supernatural has to take place. I listen to the evidence, but the supernatural part of is when touching the shroud, nothing happens. This is what im thinking from the supernatural side of this and being on the body of the all powerful supernatural Saviour. 🤔
Riddle me this: If I take a foot wide 3D globe of the earth and flatten it out, how wide is that flat, 2D map representation? Is it still only a foot wide? That new map you have just created will probably be more like 2 1/2 feet wide. Same with the face on this shroud. It was WRAPPED AROUND a head. Why does is look like a photo? Because the person who faked it thinks in 2D like he was looking at a painting. It doesn't work like that. Sorry. I am a believer and a pastor, and I think fakes like this diminish our witness and I don't appreciate it. Faith does not come by waving a fake shroud around. Paul wrote "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God." Not through fake artifacts.
You dont need to mention that you are pastor or believer to deal with tbe reality before you.
Its your fear that makes you think that a damn cloth, ( a cloth !!!) can hold a 3D image 😂😂.
A linen cloth cant hold that depth of image, Pastor.
@@Christusvinci I have no fear. And I mention my faith to proclaim I am not simply an unbeliever or atheist who IS intimidated or hateful and simply wishes to debunk biblical things or mock people of faith. And no, I do not believe a cloth can and would hold an image at all, unless God wants it. But if God wants it, He will follow his own modeling and do things in a consistent way. And I do not say the imprint would be a 3D image. I am saying, as with my example, that when you take something that exists in three dimensions and you flatten it out as with the cloth, it will be much wider.
Try this; Go get a couple of paper towels. Wet a volunteer's face with water or oil. Now gently place it around the front of that person's head, at least from ear to ear. Mark those ears. Outline them or something. Now remove the paper towel and spread it on a table or countertop. Measure or simply observe how very wide apart the ears are. Tada! The shroud is a fake.
@Harpadzo thats why I said you haven't looked this shroud objectively, that's why I sense I deep fear lest you be labelled superstitious.
Now look at the following:
1. There is NO liquid on the cloth ( nada!!! including oil).
2. The image is only sits ever so lightly on the surface of the cloth like in nanos (indicating that it's not a scorch, so no heat involved).
3. It has a 3D image on a cloth. A linen cloth for that matter.
4. The image is x-ray like and holographic at the same time( which is not even possible technologically).
5. Its a Photographic negative, (only exposed by light and the image when revealed is so detailed that you can see even the type of marks the flagrum left on his body and even count them..
6. the image is non directional(meaning that it was created all at once and there are no brush marks on the cloth).
I am not even talking bout the historical evidence of the cloth with dates back to Jerusalem, Edessa, Constantinople.
So the issue is that there is NO phenomenon on earth that can create an image with a combination of those Features.
Common Pastor🙄!
@Christusvinci Then why were there at one time over 40 shrouds circulating?
@@Harpadzoyou know this shroud has anomalies that as technology has advanced that more is shown to be real, not the carbon data from repairs, but the actual things that nobody would know back in middle ages to be shown hundreds of years in the future
Many atheists are very disingenuous. Romans 10:3 KJV - For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
no big if ,,,, just admit its jesus ,,,,
That's easy! All intelligent people that have plenty of common sense know that it's Jesus! 👍
@@beverlyhurd8556all intelligent people with common sense know that the image is absolutely impossible to be the way it is if it ever was wrapped around a human body.
@@MrSeedi76 Yes, but all intelligent people with common sense know that it was *never* wrapped around his body. Jesus was laid down on the bottom half and the top half was folded over him. His image on the shroud is 100% proof of this. A bit of actual shroud study would do you a world of good, I think.
Why is He touching His penis?
@MrSeedi76 You don't seem to know about the work of Particle Physicist Isobel Pikzik or the radiation data Look into it
The shroud is a resurrected hoax about a resurrected hoax
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."
@ I’ll see it if there is sufficient evidence provided. So far I’ve seen none
@@SimpleCivil
The Shroud image is so incredible that the burden of proof rests on those who think it is a forgery. STURP team spent over two years preparing a series of tests that would gather a vast amount of Shroud data in a relatively short period of time. STURP's primary goal was to determine the scientific properties of the image on the Shroud of Turin, and what might have caused it: After years of exhaustive study and evaluation of the data, STURP issued its Final Report in 1981: "We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist." "The answer to the question of how the image was produced or what produced the image remains, now, as it has in the past, a mystery." No one has ever proven these 33 scientists and engineers wrong. All were part of leading tech firms. Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories* Lockheed Corporation* U.S. Air Force Weapons Laboratories* Brooks Institute of Photography* University of Colorado* Oceanographic Services Inc.* Nuclear Technology Corporation* U.S. Air Force Academy* Jet Propulsion Laboratory* Sandia National Laboratory*, etc. The STRUP team included three Jewish members, one Mormon, one Evangelical, several Catholics, several Protestants and some avowed atheists and agnostics. Had religion ever been a criterion for membership, most of the STURP team members would never have agreed to participate. The notion that it is a forgery (a painting, other work of art) has been disproved so thoroughly and absolutely that it is permanently buried; they are based in part on the denial of empirical data. The scholarly consensus a mere 60 years ago deemed the Shroud a medieval fraud; the present evidence allows a firm archaeological judgement for authenticity.
if this was Jesus where are the imprints from the crown of thrones?
They are there, as a cap not a ring.
I fear for our society with so many gullible people running around. You people actually think the shroud is real
I fear for your eternal destination.
Are you that fearful that it is authentic.
Contempt prior to investigation is a bar to all truth
Tell that to the Jewish man who turned to Jesus. He was huge skeptic. He died last year but it took him 17 years. He was as skeptical as you are.
@ yes Barrie Swortz.
Great guy- I knew him.
He was part of the STURP team.
At the time a total skeptic but after studying the Shroud a true believer in its authenticity.
he has proven he is not an expert. he doesn't even have a basic understanding of crucifixion. read the passover plot.
Well, if they saved the shroud why didn't they save other things? I think it's a con ... Christians are easily conned.
What 'other things' are you referring to? Care to explain? No? I did not think so.
Atheists sure do enjoy proving their ignorance.
It’s just a piece of cloth. Stop idolizing it.
Just wondering, do you actually think that there are people out there that are worshiping the burial shroud of our Lord Jesus and not Jesus himself?
@@beverlyhurd8556 correct. No one is worshiping the shroud. It’s just evidence of Jesus and that is all.
Total nonsense
It's not. The most studied price of all time and the smartest people can't tell us how it was created. 200 peer reviews. It's interesting for a reason
@910iva clearly you are adding things to the torah. That are not found in the torah. So please stop lienig to people
@@rickdavies4801 actually a Jewish man converted. He died last year but he accepted that it is impossible to explain.
@@910iva You plainly do not want to see the truth saying that some Jewish man converted is not an explanation.I want soever
@910iva one Jewish man that is your answer. Weak so Weak