@@Propeller_Head Thank You. So in one main line and one belay line system, both ropes are static ? And what do you think about tying backup knots every few feet when ascending a rope ? For example, when using ID and a hand ascender with no seperate rope and ASAP as backup. Is it ok to fall on a static rope like that in case something fails ?
Yes both lines are static. If you are starting out learning how to climb rope, its not a terrible idea to tie knots below your descender especially if you are using the “RAD” technique (as you described it), which would also be more relevant if using a device other than a descender such as a Gri-Gri, etc. But after you gain experience climbing with a variety of different gear & techniques, you’ll find that tying knots in your line can be cumbersome & excessive. I don’t ever tie any additional knots in any of my lines anywhere at any time, even when passing other knots. But I would advocate that it’s a good idea to tie a knot below you and clip into it any time you are going to start a process of removing components, such as when passing knots. I do not see any reason to be on a single line with both an I’D and an ASAP above it because your I’D is auto-locking AND it also has an anti-panic function to stop you when you screw up… this would be called “conditional self-belay”. Rope Access professionals & often Rope Rescue professionals will tend to use two lines and separate their gear out between these two lines: one line gets an I’D and the other line gets an ASAP, & this would then become an “independent self-belay”. You can fall onto your ASAP as long as it has the appropriate ‘Sorber shock pack attached to it. otherwise it’s a nasty tooth-cam rope grab that can damage the rope…. basically its the same thing as falling onto a handled ascender at that point
@@Propeller_Head I understand using two lines and separating the gear like you said. I wouldn't use the ASAP on the same rope as my ID. I was talking about having only one rope and ascending it with RAD or some other system. Are backup knots necessary in that case ? Or is it enough just to have a sling or PAS attached to the hand ascender as second point of attachment ? And does it make a difference which device I'm using as progress capture. For example, is it ok to ascend a rope using just croll or ID as progress capture and a hand acender with only a foot loop attached to it. No backup knots, and no second rope with ASAP ? I know falling on asap with apsorber is ok, but what about falling on a backup knot in a static rope ? Thank you for your time.
So when climbing on a single rope I do not see any need to tie knots in your rope below you unless you are operating way beyond your knowledge, skills, & abilities. Again if you are starting out, you CAN tie a Butterfly knot below you and then clip that into your harness to prevent you from falling to your death if you really screw things up. But then as you ascend a couple of feet, you’ll then need to disconnect & undo that knot, then repeat the process with another knot that is closer to you. In theory this will keep your freefall potential to a minimum. Now, if you are ascending w/ a croll & handled ascender (frog system), you need to have a cows tail connected between your harness and the handled ascender. That way if you come out of your croll and fall, you fall onto your handled ascender. On the flipside, if you step up and for some reason you fall back down onto your croll, that will stop you, but these accidents can damage the rope. If you break the rope at any of these points, tying knots below you on the line will not protect you… Yes its fine to use a croll or I’D as the capture and only have a cows tail to the handled ascender… Just limit your freefall potential to less than 2ft at any point in time
Bob, you are a wealth of knowledge, thank you!
My pleasure… Happy to help out where I can
Your commitment to the details are impressive. Nice work on all of your content. Be safe and keep sharing
Right on, thanks!
Great information Bob, Keep it up man
Thanks!
Hi Bob, do you belay rescue load with dynamic or static rope ?
Professional teams use Static Rope. Defined per Cordage Institute as having between 1-6% elongation at 10% of its minimum breaking strength
@@Propeller_Head Thank You. So in one main line and one belay line system, both ropes are static ?
And what do you think about tying backup knots every few feet when ascending a rope ?
For example, when using ID and a hand ascender with no seperate rope and ASAP as backup.
Is it ok to fall on a static rope like that in case something fails ?
Yes both lines are static. If you are starting out learning how to climb rope, its not a terrible idea to tie knots below your descender especially if you are using the “RAD” technique (as you described it), which would also be more relevant if using a device other than a descender such as a Gri-Gri, etc. But after you gain experience climbing with a variety of different gear & techniques, you’ll find that tying knots in your line can be cumbersome & excessive. I don’t ever tie any additional knots in any of my lines anywhere at any time, even when passing other knots. But I would advocate that it’s a good idea to tie a knot below you and clip into it any time you are going to start a process of removing components, such as when passing knots. I do not see any reason to be on a single line with both an I’D and an ASAP above it because your I’D is auto-locking AND it also has an anti-panic function to stop you when you screw up… this would be called “conditional self-belay”. Rope Access professionals & often Rope Rescue professionals will tend to use two lines and separate their gear out between these two lines: one line gets an I’D and the other line gets an ASAP, & this would then become an “independent self-belay”.
You can fall onto your ASAP as long as it has the appropriate ‘Sorber shock pack attached to it. otherwise it’s a nasty tooth-cam rope grab that can damage the rope…. basically its the same thing as falling onto a handled ascender at that point
@@Propeller_Head I understand using two lines and separating the gear like you said. I wouldn't use the ASAP on the same rope as my ID. I was talking about having only one rope and ascending it with RAD or some other system. Are backup knots necessary in that case ? Or is it enough just to have a sling or PAS attached to the hand ascender as second point of attachment ? And does it make a difference which device I'm using as progress capture. For example, is it ok to ascend a rope using just croll or ID as progress capture and a hand acender with only a foot loop attached to it. No backup knots, and no second rope with ASAP ? I know falling on asap with apsorber is ok, but what about falling on a backup knot in a static rope ?
Thank you for your time.
So when climbing on a single rope I do not see any need to tie knots in your rope below you unless you are operating way beyond your knowledge, skills, & abilities. Again if you are starting out, you CAN tie a Butterfly knot below you and then clip that into your harness to prevent you from falling to your death if you really screw things up. But then as you ascend a couple of feet, you’ll then need to disconnect & undo that knot, then repeat the process with another knot that is closer to you. In theory this will keep your freefall potential to a minimum.
Now, if you are ascending w/ a croll & handled ascender (frog system), you need to have a cows tail connected between your harness and the handled ascender. That way if you come out of your croll and fall, you fall onto your handled ascender. On the flipside, if you step up and for some reason you fall back down onto your croll, that will stop you, but these accidents can damage the rope. If you break the rope at any of these points, tying knots below you on the line will not protect you…
Yes its fine to use a croll or I’D as the capture and only have a cows tail to the handled ascender… Just limit your freefall potential to less than 2ft at any point in time