When it comes to Slicing off, is there reason you've chosen to opt for cutting into Irongate instead of Change like Meyer describes? (At least in the '68) (Not trying to be contentious, am genuinely curious)
Not contentious at all - actually it's a very good question, with a very long answer, so please bear with me 😊 First of all - yes, completely agree that slicing off to change is perfectly legitimate. The 1568 describes the slicing off in sequence with several follow up actions in which the movement down the the left low guard or Change is part of the follow up, using the movement to change as a kind of expulsion of their blade before entering the follow up action. My own view is that the slice as the initial section described in Meyer's 1570, with the follow up expulsion being optional and context dependent. One of the motivations for this are the descriptions of suppressing and going through in the 1568 - in this text his separation of techniques isn't as developed as the 1570, but he describes the suppressing as "much like the slicing off, almost as in the Iron gate", he also describes Going Through as being a a slicing off/out his thrust from left to right which can be done either with the expulsion downward through right low guard, or into the Iron Gate position suppressing. In the 1570 we no longer see the specification of the Change being used explicitly in the slicing off description, however for me the real support comes from 2.91v.2 "How you shall slice off and counterattack from this guard [low guard on the right]" In this section we explicitly see the following descriptions: "cut against his incoming blade diagonally from your right, strongly through; and in this cutting you shall send your hilt somewhat before the blade as it goes down, and lower your upper body well forward and down by stepping broadly. Thus send his blade with this cut with extended arm down from you in the manner of a slice. Then quickly thrust up at his face before he brings his blade out from under yours, so that when the thrust hits, you stand up in Longpoint." No mention of going through to change - instead we see a specific movement and follow up (which is actually on that shows up in the video in one form or another). The "thus send his blade with this cut..." is essential here, as in "this thing I just told you is the slicing, and that's how you send his blade down" The final item is in the longsword section with the advice to "not slice too wide from his body, so he does not go through against you". From earlier in the section we know the triggers for changing through are: 1) Holding the hands close to the body in cuts (for example in the Change) 2) If he fights broadly and long with the long edge , but more to the sword than the body (as we would be doing if we always used change, which doesn't threaten the body) 3) If someone changes through, fall into the long slice, which is longpoint - suggesting a longpoint like position is a slicing position) This is borne out by experience - if you always use the slicing off all the way to change, then the opponent very often changes through and attacks with the point on the other side, leaving you out of place to defend easily. Don't even get me started on "slicing off" in Dusack - that adds nothing useful to our understanding. 😁 So, conclusions: a) I think slicing off through to Change is definitely a legitimate interpretation, as evidenced in the 1568 and in one instance in the 1570, and is really useful in fencing against another quite "broad" or aggressive fencer. b) My own feeling is that the slicing off part needn't go all the way down to Change/Low Guard, and that the critical element is the initial slicing, with the expulsion downward being an optional extra, as evidenced by the contextual evidence from the 1570. This has actually been a really good deep-dive though, and this might be worth a video all of its own! Thank you!
Attending a Bolognese club at the moment, and the stuff about double triangle steps and lower body positions actually complements a lot of what we're doing. Thanks for the content, can't wait for part 3.
One of the most beautiful characteristics of Abschneiden and Dempffen is using the body weight with the structure down to knee level to apply pressure on the opponent's sword while maintaining the point on line. The commitment of this parry, the confidence of the skill level and the willingness to perform a solid defence first rather than a risky double is the true beauty of HEMA.
You're right - that dropping of the body-weight to such a low position requires a certain commitment to the defence - when it works well it feels amazing.
Really glad to have stumbled across these videos. I have The Art of Combat 1570 Treatise book which is a fantastic read, in practice however I struggle as I'm a visual learner so having a form of visual aid is exceptionally more informative
I want to start this off with saying that I have no previous real knowledge about martial arts fencing, only tidbits and basic techniques. But, I've always been put off when I see movies or tv series visualizing a sword going straight through a protective breastplate or the big, heavy movements of a massive sword or just in general big, easily read choreography in sword fighting. I'm writing a fantasy medieval novel, and I've begun to dig deep into the martial arts side of things, starting with Italian and Destreza rapier fencing, and longswords, etc. So, watching all these techniques are incredibly fun to learn about to write a believable novel that involves a lot of fencing and all out war, and coming across your videos has given me a lot of insight. Keep doing what you do and good work! ♥
Excellent work and demonstration! Extremely helpful and knowledgeable as always, well done with breaking down the movement to make it very clear to understand! I love the videos and I am excited to learn more! Happy New Years to you as well!
Great explanation! I think the additional poses in the opponent overlays add a lot of clarity. The dempfen is one of my favorite techniques to pull off while using sidesword! When I was first going over it I was suprised to read Meyer advising us to target the strong of the opponent's blade rather than the weak, what are your thoughts on that? It seems to me that that targetting can displace the opponent's point further offline, and the disadvantage I'd expect from having my weak on their strong isn't a problem with good structure. Although I think the same percussive cut doesn't work the same way in longsword since the second hand gives the opponent more leverage
They definitely fit into rapier, as long as the opponent is playing a game with a lot of cuts. As the play becomes more thrust centric they have to be adjusted (which will be in video 3, hopefully soon).
im even not watch the video yet but im sure thats gonna be excellent, i remember the other video about one of the meyer techniques of rapier and it was so inspiring and it beging to intriging me the meyer rapier sistem ( i study bolognes). Now i have the introduction book of robert rutherford and i will buy the 1570 treatise of meyer in the future ( i buy the 1568 in kindle but i want the big one ) . sorry for my bad english and a lot of thanks for sharing this so good videos, i hope there is more about this topic in the future, thanks again!
side swords are very underated in my opinion, im not sure why, maybe because some people think they are just rapier. anyway, sidesword is definetly my favorite sword to use, very good tutorial
That's always a tricky one - typically I'd suggest trying a modern olympic fencing "intro" course, or even kendo, to give you a feel for ideas of line and distance. There's also matter of discovering the system you're most interested in - longsword, rapier, sidesword, sabre, and so on - RUclips is excellent these days, with lots of content creators for all major weapons systems. At that point it's a matter of finding both written sources, and online resources, then working from there - you can make a lot of progress on your own, but of course if you have a friend to help, the progress is much faster. After a while, a lot of people form small study groups in their community - in fact it's how a lot of people got started in Historical Fencing back in the day, and even now!
They really do have a cut focus. If you go through Meyer's entire sidesword section it works out to about 50/50 between cuts and thrusts. Often a technique will begin with a thrust, and then end with a cutting action.
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When it comes to Slicing off, is there reason you've chosen to opt for cutting into Irongate instead of Change like Meyer describes? (At least in the '68)
(Not trying to be contentious, am genuinely curious)
Not contentious at all - actually it's a very good question, with a very long answer, so please bear with me 😊
First of all - yes, completely agree that slicing off to change is perfectly legitimate.
The 1568 describes the slicing off in sequence with several follow up actions in which the movement down the the left low guard or Change is part of the follow up, using the movement to change as a kind of expulsion of their blade before entering the follow up action.
My own view is that the slice as the initial section described in Meyer's 1570, with the follow up expulsion being optional and context dependent.
One of the motivations for this are the descriptions of suppressing and going through in the 1568 - in this text his separation of techniques isn't as developed as the 1570, but he describes the suppressing as "much like the slicing off, almost as in the Iron gate", he also describes Going Through as being a a slicing off/out his thrust from left to right which can be done either with the expulsion downward through right low guard, or into the Iron Gate position suppressing.
In the 1570 we no longer see the specification of the Change being used explicitly in the slicing off description, however for me the real support comes from 2.91v.2 "How you shall slice off and counterattack from this guard [low guard on the right]"
In this section we explicitly see the following descriptions:
"cut against his incoming blade diagonally from your right, strongly through; and in this cutting you shall send your hilt somewhat before the blade as it goes down, and lower your upper body well forward and down by stepping broadly. Thus send his blade with this cut with extended arm down from you in the manner of a slice. Then quickly thrust up at his face before he brings his blade out from under yours, so that when the thrust hits, you stand up in Longpoint."
No mention of going through to change - instead we see a specific movement and follow up (which is actually on that shows up in the video in one form or another). The "thus send his blade with this cut..." is essential here, as in "this thing I just told you is the slicing, and that's how you send his blade down"
The final item is in the longsword section with the advice to "not slice too wide from his body, so he does not go through against you".
From earlier in the section we know the triggers for changing through are:
1) Holding the hands close to the body in cuts (for example in the Change)
2) If he fights broadly and long with the long edge , but more to the sword than the body (as we would be doing if we always used change, which doesn't threaten the body)
3) If someone changes through, fall into the long slice, which is longpoint - suggesting a longpoint like position is a slicing position)
This is borne out by experience - if you always use the slicing off all the way to change, then the opponent very often changes through and attacks with the point on the other side, leaving you out of place to defend easily.
Don't even get me started on "slicing off" in Dusack - that adds nothing useful to our understanding. 😁
So, conclusions:
a) I think slicing off through to Change is definitely a legitimate interpretation, as evidenced in the 1568 and in one instance in the 1570, and is really useful in fencing against another quite "broad" or aggressive fencer.
b) My own feeling is that the slicing off part needn't go all the way down to Change/Low Guard, and that the critical element is the initial slicing, with the expulsion downward being an optional extra, as evidenced by the contextual evidence from the 1570.
This has actually been a really good deep-dive though, and this might be worth a video all of its own!
Thank you!
@@DanielPopeScholarVictoriaExcellent comment and critical for my continuing sidesword study. Thanks!
Attending a Bolognese club at the moment, and the stuff about double triangle steps and lower body positions actually complements a lot of what we're doing. Thanks for the content, can't wait for part 3.
One of the most beautiful characteristics of Abschneiden and Dempffen is using the body weight with the structure down to knee level to apply pressure on the opponent's sword while maintaining the point on line. The commitment of this parry, the confidence of the skill level and the willingness to perform a solid defence first rather than a risky double is the true beauty of HEMA.
You're right - that dropping of the body-weight to such a low position requires a certain commitment to the defence - when it works well it feels amazing.
The visual overlays are so good in adding to the clarity of your explanation. Really good stuff!
Thanks - I keep trying to refine the visualisations to make things clear, but there's still work to be done :)
Really glad to have stumbled across these videos. I have The Art of Combat 1570 Treatise book which is a fantastic read, in practice however I struggle as I'm a visual learner so having a form of visual aid is exceptionally more informative
An excellent, very clear demonstration of technique. Thank you.
Great stuff, and super close the the Bolognese sources as usual as well. :)
It really is close to the Bolognese sources in a lot of ways; you can clearly see the influence on Meyer's system of system.
I want to start this off with saying that I have no previous real knowledge about martial arts fencing, only tidbits and basic techniques. But, I've always been put off when I see movies or tv series visualizing a sword going straight through a protective breastplate or the big, heavy movements of a massive sword or just in general big, easily read choreography in sword fighting.
I'm writing a fantasy medieval novel, and I've begun to dig deep into the martial arts side of things, starting with Italian and Destreza rapier fencing, and longswords, etc. So, watching all these techniques are incredibly fun to learn about to write a believable novel that involves a lot of fencing and all out war, and coming across your videos has given me a lot of insight. Keep doing what you do and good work! ♥
Really nice video, I’m looking forward to the next one
Love how you did these videos. Much respect to the work put in
Thanks! Hopefully people get something out of them :)
Glad you're back!!
It's been too long! Being out with injuries is really frustrating!
These are really well made, and the narration is very well done!
Thanks!
Please please please do more of theses this is so woundwrfully useful for visualisation the text!
I intend to as soon as I have a spare moment!
Dude absolutely amazing content! Bravo ❤
Thank you!
Excellent work and demonstration! Extremely helpful and knowledgeable as always, well done with breaking down the movement to make it very clear to understand! I love the videos and I am excited to learn more! Happy New Years to you as well!
Thanks, and Happy New Year! :D
Can't wait for part 2!
Hopefully it'll be in a few weeks.
@@DanielPopeScholarVictoriaBefore or after the Gold Coast Classic?
Great explanation! I think the additional poses in the opponent overlays add a lot of clarity.
The dempfen is one of my favorite techniques to pull off while using sidesword! When I was first going over it I was suprised to read Meyer advising us to target the strong of the opponent's blade rather than the weak, what are your thoughts on that? It seems to me that that targetting can displace the opponent's point further offline, and the disadvantage I'd expect from having my weak on their strong isn't a problem with good structure. Although I think the same percussive cut doesn't work the same way in longsword since the second hand gives the opponent more leverage
I'll try to add these concepts to my rapier. I got it today from the mail.
They definitely fit into rapier, as long as the opponent is playing a game with a lot of cuts. As the play becomes more thrust centric they have to be adjusted (which will be in video 3, hopefully soon).
MEYER SIDESWORD!!!!💪💪💪💪
Sidesword is always under appreciated!
@@DanielPopeScholarVictoria Meyer sidesword is always so beautiful, keep the videos coming!
im even not watch the video yet but im sure thats gonna be excellent, i remember the other video about one of the meyer techniques of rapier and it was so inspiring and it beging to intriging me the meyer rapier sistem ( i study bolognes). Now i have the introduction book of robert rutherford and i will buy the 1570 treatise of meyer in the future ( i buy the 1568 in kindle but i want the big one ) . sorry for my bad english and a lot of thanks for sharing this so good videos, i hope there is more about this topic in the future, thanks again!
side swords are very underated in my opinion, im not sure why, maybe because some people think they are just rapier. anyway, sidesword is definetly my favorite sword to use, very good tutorial
Keep it coming!!!
oh finally!
I'm glad it's finally out too - the video clips for this one have been sitting on my phone since October 😬
delightful as always
Aww shucks :)
These graphics are excellent
These are really well made ❤
Love this
What would you suggest to someone interested in swordsmanship but unable to access a school in person?
That's always a tricky one - typically I'd suggest trying a modern olympic fencing "intro" course, or even kendo, to give you a feel for ideas of line and distance.
There's also matter of discovering the system you're most interested in - longsword, rapier, sidesword, sabre, and so on - RUclips is excellent these days, with lots of content creators for all major weapons systems.
At that point it's a matter of finding both written sources, and online resources, then working from there - you can make a lot of progress on your own, but of course if you have a friend to help, the progress is much faster. After a while, a lot of people form small study groups in their community - in fact it's how a lot of people got started in Historical Fencing back in the day, and even now!
fuck yeah!
Engagement!
you really notice how germans dislike the thrust
They really do have a cut focus. If you go through Meyer's entire sidesword section it works out to about 50/50 between cuts and thrusts. Often a technique will begin with a thrust, and then end with a cutting action.