I'm going to disagree with you, only because David Tennant > Matt Smith, and if you can be so wrong about something as important as Dr. Who, I can't really trust your opinion on squatting.. Shots fired.
***** haha I am some how just now reading this comment. But Greg I have a more serious lifting question. In another video you mentioned you strained a muscle in your lower back correct? Just curious, how long did that take to heal and how was the recovery like? I currently am going through a low back strain and although it feels much better since I strained it a few weeks ago, the other day I played soccer for a few hours and the pain was pretty intense. This time I felt it more in my spine and less in my low back muscles as I normally do. I am starting to fear I will never deadlier again, squatting doesn't seem to cause any back pain but I am only doing light high bar squats as of currently. Any tips for recovery and staying safe?
Body segment lengths play a part in how comfortable you high bar vs low bar. I have a short torso to legs ratio. Here are the average male segments in percentages of total height according to the referenced information in this video and my measurements along side. Shin: average = 24.7% me = 27.7% Thigh: average = 23.2% me = 28.5% Trunk: average = 30% me = 25.6% I low bar or front squat. High bar is not only painful on my traps its very hard for me to balance and leverage.
Hey Greg! I just wanted to tell you, that your channel has become one of my absolute favorites! I've always enjoyed your articles and I think your in-depth discussions are really valueable!
I'm definitely going to incorporate more HB now to access more ROM which will help quad development. I've never trained quads and it's surely my biggest limiting factor. Currently I can't squat. It hurts the top of my knees to even sit or body weight squat. I came off training for a few months straight and squatting 3-6 x a week. No deloads. Super aggressive hit PR but not sustainable. The top of my knee cap tendon is beyond weak now.
I'm going to try low bar my next leg workout. I have done high bar and have seen good progress, so I feel it would be smart to mix it up and put more emphasis on my posterior chain.
First you assume that the only thing that changes is the back angle, which would create identical torque on the lumbar spine. Then at 5:43 you assume the back angle to be the same for both techniques, which wouldn't be possible in reality, since you need to keep the center of gravity above your feet. The reason low bar squatting is easier is that the angle at the back of the knee is less acute, putting less stress on your quads. Additionally, you don't have to move the bar as far since you are not going as deep as in the high bar squat.
+Postermaestro the breakdown there is that you could just cut your high bar squats a bit higher and have the same knee angle, and a less acute hip angle (since you're not leaning over quite as far) - that would be even easier. That's not the case, though. I addressed this a bit more here: strengtheory.com/how-to-squat/#Should_you_high_bar_squat_low_bar_squat_or_front_squat
Is this perhaps part of why Oly lifters so violently emphasize up/forward position of the chest, protecting against the weak link in the lift by keeping the thoracic spine vertical?
My back is a lot stronger than my legs are but i feel terrible doing low bar squats. Everything feels terribly uncomfortable, even with very low weight.
Best video on squatting mecanics outthere!! Great work!!! Ps this also means that wlifters have insane upper back strenght considering that they usually front squat a tonn
Hey Greg, I just finished up the Bulgarian Manual. I learned quite a bit of new info, and that's because I've used this type of training 2-3 times before. It definitely boosts my Squat and Bench more than anything! I have a question about it though. The reason I stopped doing this type of training is because I personally found it difficult to add size. Call me clueless, but I just didn't know how to go about adding hypertrophy without feeling like I'm gonna get too sore or something. I really enjoy HIHF training, and I'd like to start at it again, but I would like a few pointers as to adding hypertrophy work. If it helps, I feel like maybe I could add an extra session on Fridays and Saturdays, and my schedule would look like this: Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday. Thanks in advanced, really enjoy the videos and enjoyed the Bulgarian Manual!
***** True. And how should I structure bodybuilding type of work? Would something like dedicating 5-10 minutes at the end of Squats and Bench to a specific body part work? So for example, in day 1, after Squats and Bench, I dedicate 5-10 minutes to delts, day 2 to arms, day 3 back, day 4 legs, and day 5 chest? Sets would depend on long I rest, so the only limit I have is time, and not a set number of sets and reps that I have to follow. This idea barely came to me last night! One final thing, should the total amount of weekly reps match up with whatever amount of weekly reps I totaled in a previous cycle, or should it be lower since intensity is higher on a daily basis?
Hey Greg! I did a 1RM yesterday which was a 140kg highbar ATG squat. If I ever want to compete in powerlifting I should probably do a powerliftingstyle (going parallel) lowbar squat right? How much more would I be able squat when I switch over to a powerliftingstyle lowbar squat? 10% maybe? Thanks beforehand, great content! :)
I was wondering since the limiting factor to transfer energy from my legs to the bar is my back extensors, what are your favorite exercises to isolate them? I notice that when I fail a squat it's only because my back just hunches over and my legs and hips don't feel like they are even close to maximal output. PS I love your vids, great information .. Keep it up 👍
Does this mean i wont miss out on my quad developement by switching to a more lowbar/powerlifting stance? Squatting with the bar on my trapz as it is now and just realised that i am stronger using more hip drive.
Hillerio it probably won't make a huge difference. The biggest advantage high bar would have is that you can generally take them deeper (increased knee flexion) ad increased ROM generally means increased hypertrophy.
Hi Greg, this is a very old video, but I’ve got a question for you. Is there any tip to maintain the extended thoracic position while contracting diaphragm to make the biggest intra abdominal pressure? I changed my style and I can squat very well with extended upper back, but it seems to be very hard to keep my ribs down when I maintain my thoracic spine extended. I can have straighter lower back when I have upper back extended, but I don’t know if not having optimal intra abdominal pressure is going to limit my trunk stiffness. I was wondering if that’s something that just has to be practiced, or are there some limiting factors in my muscle activations throughout the movement? Thank you
i know you've talk about front squats being a great exercise. can you please make a video talking about front squats form? are we supposed to lead with the knees? also when i front squat the weight hurts my shoulders a ton, how can i get outa this (without using a towel). I know its a fundemental movement so I dont wanna skip, but the shoulder pain makes it hard to increase the weight past 150lbs. (my back squat max is 240). Also what other exercises are good for thoracic errectors? really like your vids, keep the good work :)
Haris Bokhari you need to work on your shoulder and wrist mobility before front squatting. This will help you to get into position and keep your elbows up. There will be a noticeable difference in mobility which won't have all that weight shifted forward on your front delts.
I could listen to you talk about this for days, would/should foot position have any effect on the thoracic spinal erector limitation? I find myself feeling more comfortable doing a wider stance high bar than say an olympic stance high bar. I am extremely limited by my thoracic extensors and think I'm on the higher end of the 10% discrepancy b/w high/low bar. Heeled shoes also seem to further exacerbate the difference.
mgarozzo11 A wider foot position (provided your hips can take it) tends to allow you to stay a bit more upright and make the lift easier on your erectors
Hello. Great video. Does femur length play a role in which squat type to do. Ie. Long femurs you should do low bar / short femurs you should do high bar? I have been seeing this debate for a while and wanted to get your thoughts. Thanks man.
Having an issue with high rep squats. I've got the breathing pattern nailed down when I do sub eight reps. However, when doing up to 15 reps I start to get some breathing problems. If I take a deep breath between every squat, I feel damn dizzy. If I hold my breath for too many reps, I feel damn dizzy. I tend to lose tightness in the bottom of the squat if I mess up my breathing. My rep schemes undulate 3 times a week, 3x5, 3x8 and 3x15. Any tips or suggestions?
That's just going to happen. Squatting is an energy-intensive endeavor. You can burn as many calories in a high rep set of squats as a 400m sprint in half the time - you're just going to get light-headed.
hey greg,i am currently doing madcow 5x5 program,and for some month i cant get over 100 kg on my bench press and 140kg on my squat,any advice would be appreciated!
The average torso is 30" long? Where is that measured from? I just tried measuring from the sacro-iliac joint to the 1st thoracic verebrae and was only 22" and yet I've always been told I have a long torso for my height (79.5 ")
***** I measured to the top of T1, so that's pretty much in the same ballpark. I'm still querying the 30" figure though. I'm average height according to most figures I've seen and I tend to be taller sitting down than most people I've met who've been a couple of inches taller. what was the source for the 30" torso figure?
If my Olympic lifting shoes lower my bottom position significantly am I better of flat footed? Never looked at it this way but for the same reason that I move more weight low bar I can move more weight in flatfooted shoes I think. Still below parallel in flatfooted shoes.
***** Do you know why WL shoes cause a strain/pain in my peroneus longus/outer calf muscle?. Happens in the bottom position during stretch reflex. Started about 3 months after I started using WL shoes. I had been squatting for 2 years 2-4 times per week before hand. Another reason why I prefer flat footed. I think it has to do with the greater forward shin angle.
***** I don't see many benefits to WL shoes right now as I get more than deep enough maybe too deep flat footed. I also have my first PL meet in 5 months
***** Thank for the reply's and I appreciate the video format! I also don't get as good of a stretch reflex with WL shoes, it seems like there is not enough tension in my quads in the hole. But with flat soles I can get just as deep (Just about I think) but I get a better stretch reflex and I feel a lot tighter in the bottom. I have made that decision yesterday during a front squat session. The pain disappears as soon as I take of my WL shoes and switch to flat soles. So I know it's not from the high squat frequency.
Rippetoe - The real answer is HIIP DRAAAHVE
I'm going to disagree with you, only because David Tennant > Matt Smith, and if you can be so wrong about something as important as Dr. Who, I can't really trust your opinion on squatting..
Shots fired.
***** haha I am some how just now reading this comment.
But Greg I have a more serious lifting question. In another video you mentioned you strained a muscle in your lower back correct? Just curious, how long did that take to heal and how was the recovery like?
I currently am going through a low back strain and although it feels much better since I strained it a few weeks ago, the other day I played soccer for a few hours and the pain was pretty intense. This time I felt it more in my spine and less in my low back muscles as I normally do.
I am starting to fear I will never deadlier again, squatting doesn't seem to cause any back pain but I am only doing light high bar squats as of currently.
Any tips for recovery and staying safe?
***** also Smith > Tennet.
Love love LOVE this video. It's a great additions to your articles. It'd be beneficial if you continued to do stuff like this.
Same goes for me. 1. read article 2. watch vid 3. read article again.
Exatomundo
Cody Lefever (GZCL)
It'll happen. Slowly but surely.
Great stuff! As a novice lifter and a physics student, this kind of analysis is super fascinating!
Awesome video as always!
Body segment lengths play a part in how comfortable you high bar vs low bar. I have a short torso to legs ratio. Here are the average male segments in percentages of total height according to the referenced information in this video and my measurements along side.
Shin: average = 24.7% me = 27.7%
Thigh: average = 23.2% me = 28.5%
Trunk: average = 30% me = 25.6%
I low bar or front squat. High bar is not only painful on my traps its very hard for me to balance and leverage.
I could listen to you geek out on lifting all day long, Greg. Keep up the fantastic content!
Hey Greg! I just wanted to tell you, that your channel has become one of my absolute favorites! I've always enjoyed your articles and I think your in-depth discussions are really valueable!
So much depth of analysis. One of the best resources on the interwebz!
Your remarkable. Next to Chris duffin your the smartest powerlifter on the internet. I love your content. Keep it coming. Thanks
I'm definitely going to incorporate more HB now to access more ROM which will help quad development. I've never trained quads and it's surely my biggest limiting factor. Currently I can't squat. It hurts the top of my knees to even sit or body weight squat. I came off training for a few months straight and squatting 3-6 x a week. No deloads. Super aggressive hit PR but not sustainable. The top of my knee cap tendon is beyond weak now.
I'm going to try low bar my next leg workout. I have done high bar and have seen good progress, so I feel it would be smart to mix it up and put more emphasis on my posterior chain.
First you assume that the only thing that changes is the back angle, which would create identical torque on the lumbar spine. Then at 5:43 you assume the back angle to be the same for both techniques, which wouldn't be possible in reality, since you need to keep the center of gravity above your feet. The reason low bar squatting is easier is that the angle at the back of the knee is less acute, putting less stress on your quads. Additionally, you don't have to move the bar as far since you are not going as deep as in the high bar squat.
+Postermaestro the breakdown there is that you could just cut your high bar squats a bit higher and have the same knee angle, and a less acute hip angle (since you're not leaning over quite as far) - that would be even easier.
That's not the case, though.
I addressed this a bit more here: strengtheory.com/how-to-squat/#Should_you_high_bar_squat_low_bar_squat_or_front_squat
Is this perhaps part of why Oly lifters so violently emphasize up/forward position of the chest, protecting against the weak link in the lift by keeping the thoracic spine vertical?
My back is a lot stronger than my legs are but i feel terrible doing low bar squats. Everything feels terribly uncomfortable, even with very low weight.
Now i know why i cant front squat a shit :-D Its too hard on my thoratic extensors.
What if someone can squat more high bar than low bar? What can be the reason for it?
Best video on squatting mecanics outthere!! Great work!!!
Ps this also means that wlifters have insane upper back strenght considering that they usually front squat a tonn
+Enrico Garro yep! WLers have super strong upper backs
That guy at the end, is it Klokov right?
aye
Hey Greg, I just finished up the Bulgarian Manual. I learned quite a bit of new info, and that's because I've used this type of training 2-3 times before. It definitely boosts my Squat and Bench more than anything! I have a question about it though. The reason I stopped doing this type of training is because I personally found it difficult to add size. Call me clueless, but I just didn't know how to go about adding hypertrophy without feeling like I'm gonna get too sore or something. I really enjoy HIHF training, and I'd like to start at it again, but I would like a few pointers as to adding hypertrophy work. If it helps, I feel like maybe I could add an extra session on Fridays and Saturdays, and my schedule would look like this: Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday. Thanks in advanced, really enjoy the videos and enjoyed the Bulgarian Manual!
why not just ramp up the number of drop back sets?
***** True. And how should I structure bodybuilding type of work? Would something like dedicating 5-10 minutes at the end of Squats and Bench to a specific body part work? So for example, in day 1, after Squats and Bench, I dedicate 5-10 minutes to delts, day 2 to arms, day 3 back, day 4 legs, and day 5 chest? Sets would depend on long I rest, so the only limit I have is time, and not a set number of sets and reps that I have to follow. This idea barely came to me last night! One final thing, should the total amount of weekly reps match up with whatever amount of weekly reps I totaled in a previous cycle, or should it be lower since intensity is higher on a daily basis?
Why do i Squat more with high bar? I made the transitio to Low bar Squat, but the weight just feels really heave
If I switch from low bar to high bar squats, can I increase my deadlift volume slightly?
why do we feel stronger when we dont have complete up right position
Subscribed brother!
Nerdgasmic.
Hey Greg!
I did a 1RM yesterday which was a 140kg highbar ATG squat.
If I ever want to compete in powerlifting I should probably do a powerliftingstyle (going parallel) lowbar squat right?
How much more would I be able squat when I switch over to a powerliftingstyle lowbar squat? 10% maybe?
Thanks beforehand, great content! :)
+Jordi K There may not be a difference at all initially while you learn the technique, but once you master it, a 5-10% difference is pretty standard.
For me it's real simple. High-bar squat = legs. Low-bar squat = legs + back. I can lift a LOT more with legs + back than with legs alone. Simple.
I was wondering since the limiting factor to transfer energy from my legs to the bar is my back extensors, what are your favorite exercises to isolate them? I notice that when I fail a squat it's only because my back just hunches over and my legs and hips don't feel like they are even close to maximal output.
PS I love your vids, great information .. Keep it up 👍
Thanks man. Paused front squats are great for that.
Dmitry Klokov is a beast.
Liked because of dog calendar
Does this mean i wont miss out on my quad developement by switching to a more lowbar/powerlifting stance?
Squatting with the bar on my trapz as it is now and just realised that i am stronger using more hip drive.
Hillerio it probably won't make a huge difference. The biggest advantage high bar would have is that you can generally take them deeper (increased knee flexion) ad increased ROM generally means increased hypertrophy.
Amazing vid
Hi Greg, this is a very old video, but I’ve got a question for you.
Is there any tip to maintain the extended thoracic position while contracting diaphragm to make the biggest intra abdominal pressure?
I changed my style and I can squat very well with extended upper back, but it seems to be very hard to keep my ribs down when I maintain my thoracic spine extended.
I can have straighter lower back when I have upper back extended, but I don’t know if not having optimal intra abdominal pressure is going to limit my trunk stiffness.
I was wondering if that’s something that just has to be practiced, or are there some limiting factors in my muscle activations throughout the movement?
Thank you
i know you've talk about front squats being a great exercise. can you please make a video talking about front squats form? are we supposed to lead with the knees? also when i front squat the weight hurts my shoulders a ton, how can i get outa this (without using a towel). I know its a fundemental movement so I dont wanna skip, but the shoulder pain makes it hard to increase the weight past 150lbs. (my back squat max is 240). Also what other exercises are good for thoracic errectors? really like your vids, keep the good work :)
Just watch the weightlifters. People should be looking at them if they want to get as strong as possible.
Haris Bokhari you need to work on your shoulder and wrist mobility before front squatting. This will help you to get into position and keep your elbows up. There will be a noticeable difference in mobility which won't have all that weight shifted forward on your front delts.
I could listen to you talk about this for days, would/should foot position have any effect on the thoracic spinal erector limitation? I find myself feeling more comfortable doing a wider stance high bar than say an olympic stance high bar. I am extremely limited by my thoracic extensors and think I'm on the higher end of the 10% discrepancy b/w high/low bar. Heeled shoes also seem to further exacerbate the difference.
mgarozzo11 A wider foot position (provided your hips can take it) tends to allow you to stay a bit more upright and make the lift easier on your erectors
Good shit, keep it up :)
Hello. Great video. Does femur length play a role in which squat type to do. Ie. Long femurs you should do low bar / short femurs you should do high bar? I have been seeing this debate for a while and wanted to get your thoughts. Thanks man.
Omar Flores I really don't think it's that straightforward. More than anything, it's just a matter of comfort and preference.
Having an issue with high rep squats. I've got the breathing pattern nailed down when I do sub eight reps. However, when doing up to 15 reps I start to get some breathing problems. If I take a deep breath between every squat, I feel damn dizzy. If I hold my breath for too many reps, I feel damn dizzy. I tend to lose tightness in the bottom of the squat if I mess up my breathing. My rep schemes undulate 3 times a week, 3x5, 3x8 and 3x15.
Any tips or suggestions?
That's just going to happen. Squatting is an energy-intensive endeavor. You can burn as many calories in a high rep set of squats as a 400m sprint in half the time - you're just going to get light-headed.
***** Roger that! Thank you for the response!
Hi Greg, I can squat the same weight low bar for high bar. What does this mean? Is there a technical issue with my low bar squats?
Just means your upper back is sufficiently swole
hey greg,i am currently doing madcow 5x5 program,and for some month i cant get over 100 kg on my bench press and 140kg on my squat,any advice would be appreciated!
the program is probably too easy for you. Not even volume to drive adaptation
The average torso is 30" long? Where is that measured from? I just tried measuring from the sacro-iliac joint to the 1st thoracic verebrae and was only 22" and yet I've always been told I have a long torso for my height (79.5 ")
C7 to SI I believe.
***** I measured to the top of T1, so that's pretty much in the same ballpark. I'm still querying the 30" figure though. I'm average height according to most figures I've seen and I tend to be taller sitting down than most people I've met who've been a couple of inches taller. what was the source for the 30" torso figure?
30"? iirc, it's 30% of bodyheight
That explains the confusion. In the video you say '30 inches' at 2:20 into the video.
I meant at 1:07. Thanks for your reply. Great videos and website by the way. very informative.
*****
Greg, can you explain why some people say that front squat (and heavy squat walkouts) help to strengthen abs?
Talks about squats.
Finishes off video by talking about going deeper.
...
I just want to stroke your beard.
If my Olympic lifting shoes lower my bottom position significantly am I better of flat footed? Never looked at it this way but for the same reason that I move more weight low bar I can move more weight in flatfooted shoes I think. Still below parallel in flatfooted shoes.
That's the case for me. I train in WL shoes most of the time for a longer ROM, but compete in flat soles.
*****
Do you know why WL shoes cause a strain/pain in my peroneus longus/outer calf muscle?. Happens in the bottom position during stretch reflex. Started about 3 months after I started using WL shoes. I had been squatting for 2 years 2-4 times per week before hand. Another reason why I prefer flat footed. I think it has to do with the greater forward shin angle.
***** I don't see many benefits to WL shoes right now as I get more than deep enough maybe too deep flat footed. I also have my first PL meet in 5 months
Adrian Brubacher
That's not typical, and I'm not overly sure why that would be. Sounds like you should just squat with a flat sole, though.
*****
Thank for the reply's and I appreciate the video format! I also don't get as good of a stretch reflex with WL shoes, it seems like there is not enough tension in my quads in the hole. But with flat soles I can get just as deep (Just about I think) but I get a better stretch reflex and I feel a lot tighter in the bottom. I have made that decision yesterday during a front squat session. The pain disappears as soon as I take of my WL shoes and switch to flat soles. So I know it's not from the high squat frequency.
Greg just randomly how old are you?
23
I actually squat less low bar ....sucks.
Only clowns I know get hurt squatting are powerlifters. Been squatting for years oly style.
I can squat more high bar.