A few clarifications / updates: You can actually use Arm + RISC-V-just, one of each core for a frankenmonster microcontroller. Can't use all four at the same time. MicroPython has released two preview UF2s, one for the Arm cores, and one for the RISC-V cores. As many have pointed out (thanks!) RP2040 was QFN-56, RP2350A QFN-60, so the pinout is slightly different (so not an exact drop-in replacement). I don't know about ADC quality improvements or some of the other details many have asked about, so please check in on the Pi forums and in other reviews for more data-this video is meant to be a quick overview to introduce the things that mattered to me in my beginner-level use of microcontrollers :)
@@JeffGeerling an important new feature given the popularity of the RP2040 in retro integrations is 5V tolerant GPIOs, albeit the chip does have to be powered up first.
@@chris-tal Even more interesting would be cores supporting multiple ISAs with microcode or within the instructions decoder(s) of the core(s) themselves without any Frankenmonster 'gluing' together multiple cores with some sort of 'IPC'.
I do think it's important to mention that the Hazard3 RISC-V cores in this thing are actually designed by Luke Wren, to quote Raspberry Pi "currently a Principal Engineer in the Raspberry Pi chip team". They didn't just grab some open-source RISC-V CPU; arguably, they did the opposite.
Good point-I've never met Luke, but it does look like he's been on Raspberry Pi's silicon design team for quite some time! I'm guessing he was also involved in RP1/RP2040 a bit, interesting seeing how much / how long Raspberry Pi's invested in their design process.
@@JeffGeerlingi was wondering now that the pico 2 is using cortex M33 architecture, which is ARMv8, or 64 bit. However what are those 2 RISC V cores? Are they 32 bit, or 64 bit. I tried to find some information on those two Harvard 3 Risc-v cores, but I couldn't find out enough information about the RISC V cores that are inside the rp2350
@@JeffGeerling , I have a short showing of some results for my Raspberry Pi Pico raytracer. I never expected this little board to perform like that. More memory will allow me a better resolution and caches.
So I saw this Seagate project that used 2 Risc-V chips one for encryption and the other for a computer module. Also I bought a Seagate and miss my mybook I wanted to partition the drive after it was formatted to Max since I don't have a Mac anymore and I spent 2 hours with customer service for them to say do these 6 steps I said that was the first screenshot I was already on step 5 before I bothered you.
I want to point out that that Lego brick *does* actually contain an RP2040 and an OLED display. The cable coming out of the back is just the USB tether to supply power. It's an incredibly impressive project.
@@petertrypsteen Indeed! Though there's no room for I/O, so all it can really do is play animations. One neat feature is that it can be powered by the same bricks as Lego motors.
Wait… has the USB port, and RP2040 can configure that for host mode. Maybe it actually could play games? Edit: Oh yeah, there is a capacitive touch sensor, so you could also play something like Flappy Bird.
@@JayrosModShopI assume they designed themselves into a corner by having it on the original, and not wanting to break compatibility with the original footprint
I remember this being asked when the Pico released - Micro USB's ubiquity and companies pretty much throwing the connectors away are why the Pico uses the connector still, Type C isn't that much more expensive in price but they aren't as abundant and Pi's factory definitely have a ton left over from the past decade.
I actually had no intention of buying one until this video. I have so many rp2040 boards. pico, pico_w, stamp, tiny2040, feather, pico-ice(rp2040 + fpga).... and then Jeff mentioned that it finally has a solid low power mode, and I have a wearable project that I originally wanted to use the rp2040 for but had to scrap because of the high power draw. Welp, if I'm going to order 1, I guess I'll order 2 for the pile.(although I'll probably order a stamp or a feather instead of the pico)
@@JeffGeerling I hate only having one of a component, especially MCUs and sensors. If you build it into a project then it is very useful to have a second just for quick tests and a spare in case something breaks. I will probably get a few third party boards even though I don’t like the rpxxxx platform and especially how you program it in C.
ngl the Picoboy you mentioned in the video looks pretty sick! It's a really good price for a DIY console, especially with the discount code you provided in the description! 100% getting one! Thanks Jeff!!!
The Arduboy is the same project, just much older with more support. An Arduino is the same thing as a Pico, it just doesn't have the "Raspberry Pi" buzzword.
Looking at Arm's Cortex-M33 programming manual, I'm not seeing any instructions for double precision other than the fact that the FPU can load and store 64-bit values into two 32-bit registers. In particular, no double-precision arithmetic. Having an FPU at all is still quite a big improvement, though!
Not only that but the Pico2/M33 uses Thumb2 which a massive step up for assembly programmers. Pico1/M0+ uses Thumb1 and is incredibly difficult to 'get right' because of the severely limited instruction set. I could go in to specifics, but Thumb1 has been a major pita. Everyone who's touched the M0+ at the instruction level will be grateful for this significant change.
RPI website claims hardware divide, single precision floating point hardware, and DSP acceleration are implemented as part of the ARM M33 core. For some apps (such as FFTs) that I commonly use, those features mean more than the small clock frequency bump. Also, one more ADC channel. Will be interested in how those pan out in real world tests.
While the RP2350 is the same size as the RP2040 is not a drop-in replacement. RP2350A uses a QFN60 package whereas the RP2040 uses a QFN56, meaning 4 more pins, plus the pinout is a little different.
I did a raytracer for the Raspberry Pi Pico 1, and I was already impressed with the performance. I can't wait to test the same software with RPI Pico 2. I can't wait for that new amount of memory!
"The guy with the Swiss accent"... not to mention his tiny pointing hand... I can't think about him without thinking about that tiny pointing hand! 😂 I'm looking forward to seeing more about that B version, if anything to see what the additional GPIO provides. And of course, because I'm currently working on a project with the Pico W, I can't wait for the W version of the 2 to release as well.
The home labbing community is the best. Your channel and the ones you're mentioning here and others you've highlighted in your other videos have created such a healthy, friendly, supportive and creative echo system. Well done, all of you.
The connector is a bit cheaper. The board cost so little it does matter. C would be nice but eh, not that big of a deal, need to have more cables handy when doing anything with it and it's sometimes a hassle, but a couple of seconds of hassle is worth it.
@@mythicalforce8658 Molex 2169900003 type-c and 0475900001 microusb are the same bulk price on digikey. In fact, the type-c is 0,02 cents cheaper but you also need to add a 5.1k resistor so it adds up to exactly the same. Even if it were more expensive I wouldn't give them cost as an excuse.
That's a really good idea to include the RISC-V cores *in addition* to familiar ARM cores. That's a beautiful way to lubricate the transition into a new world. No USB C, though. I wonder why? It is physically larger which is the only reason I can produce to stick with micro USB.
USB-C isn't better than Micro-USB. Micro-USB is cheaper. Micro-USB is easier to solder too. If you want USB-C, there are tons of ESP32/Arduino boards out there with USB-C. They are the same thing as a Pico.
Back when Pi Pico was introduced, nearly 4 years ago, economies of scale hadn't caught up and MicroUSB was used for cost and availability. It was difficult enough to release ANY hardware during peak COVID and absolute chaos and saturation of supply routes. Now it's just being retained for drop in compatibility. If you want there's any number of third party boards with USB C.
These are the kind of risc-v cores I've been waiting for: not just open standard, but fully open source and implemented by a company with excellent support and community engagement! Great work, Raspberry Pi!
Jeff, I love your content. I also love that you point out that you're a beginner at some of this, as well as point to other creators! It shows us that you're really in it to **HELP** the community. We appreciate that. Keep up the good work, sir! ❤
Thanks! The only way to learn is to try new things, fail, try again, fail, etc. Hopefully sometimes you succeed but sometimes you just realize something isn't really in your wheelhouse... for me, at least for now, that's low-level programming :D I stick with micropython, which can do most of what I've ever needed to do with a microcontroller!
Now THIS is interesting. Guess I'll be buying a few to put away for future projects. After your interview, I did get the impression they were considering RISC-V, but I didn't expect it until at least this time next year, so this is quite an interesting surprise. It's not an SBC though, so it's not quite as interesting there. Being a drop-in replacement (assuming it is always that simple) is really exciting though. I'm loving all the RP2040 projects lately, especially in modding game consoles (I just installed one in my Switch last week, in fact), so hopefully this opens up a few more options for those.
2 ARM cores or 2 RISC-V cores? Faster? 2x Memory? more efficient? Just $1 more than the previous version? That is how you update your Hardware! GREAT job Raspberry Folks! Hardware Companies have to learn from them!
They aren't considered a market holder, so probably there will be no problems. I guess that if they could do it cheaper for micro USB I am fine with it. It is already expensive enough as is.
I love this content! I'm a newbie on microcontrollers and I enjoy tinkering, so learning about new possibilities is something I always look forward. By the way, your channel is so informative, I always find cool stuff! Thanks for sharing and also for being an honest youtuber!
Honestly it's a little expensive for what it is... but it's made by an indie dev, and he's doing the software, hardware, CAD, everything-it's just cool to see what an individual can do these days, and I'm happy to support that effort.
I find it interesting that they decided to have both ARM and RISC-V on a single chip. I feel like one of them could be cut to make room on the silicon for more PIO blocks or more cores of the same architecture I do think it's cool they added RISC-V so you could try it out and then switch over to ARM if it doesn't work for you, but I don't think it's the most practical way to do it.
Oh hey! Thanks for making it, I am happy to have something that improves on EEVBlog's original uCurrent design. Hopefully a few more people see the CurrentWave and pick one up too. Easier to explore microamps with it :)
FYI I read in the specs that it’s not a drop in replacement due to adjusted power requirements and power pinouts, the 70x70 A variant IS however the same size as the 2040 footprint
If you're into retro gaming, one of the really cool use for a RP Pico is as a modchip. It's slowly replacing the old-school modchip because it's so much cheaper, easier to install and to update. The best example is the PicoBoot, which is for the GC. It's basically better on every aspects compared to the old hardware mods because while the more common XenoGC could only let you boot unsigned disc (so you still needed a boot disc to use homebrews and backups and a working drive), the PicoBoot can simply bypass the regular boot altogether, so you only need a SD adapter and you can remove the disc drive if you don't need it. There's also one for the Xbox, which is also apparently better than the old modchip and software mod, but I don't know much about it. There are also a lot of smaller projects, like emulating a Memory Card on the PS1 and letting you boot backups without mods, replacing the memory card of the N64 (which uses RAM and a battery), using one as a programmer to mod an Xbox 360 (a lot cheaper than the ones usually used), creating a cheap flash cart for some consoles, etc. I've even seen some projects for turning one into a capture card for some specific consoles (like the Genesis RGBlast, which convert the RGB signal into USB).
Congratulations to the Raspberry Pi Foundation on the impressive achievement with the RISC-V board! Jeff, your dedication in the content to innovation and open-source technology continues to push the boundaries and inspire the tech community. This milestone of the Pi foundation is a testament to RISC V vision and commitment to making embedded computing accessible to all ❤
My personal introduction to the Pi Pico was with the "PiTrex" project, which is a modern Pi powered cartridge for the classic Vectrix system. It really breathes some new life into that thing!
“The RP2350 chip on top is also a drop in replacement for the RP2040” Actually this is incorrect! Both chips are 7x7mm QFN but the RP2040 has 56 pins and the RP2350 has 60 pins! I have not yet checked how closely the various pins align or how much work a design upgrade would be, tho I will certainly be doing that upgrade on my motor controllers!
@@JeffGeerling Indeed! I just tagged you on a post on twitter with a side by side comparison of the datasheet pinouts. Things are pretty similar but there are new power pins and things moved a bit, so some care will be needed in layout updates.
I actually ordered it today, and hoping to get it soon. I've used Pico in most of my projects, it's the best Microcontroller by a long shot. Pico 2's currently on Backorder and I'm expected to recieve it in a month.
@@fujinshuOn the Raspberry Pi blog post, they ended by presenting third party boards from official partners like Adafruit which use USB-C. They should be available over the next month.
Very interesting - I'd love to see a (small) FPGA incorporated in to a future version. I know, wishing for the next version already. For now the inclusion of Risc V cores in to a 'tinkerer' device is not a bad idea... I suspect it was done because Raspberry Pi had some spare real estate post die-shrink - a reason for the lower power draw?
this is amazing to see, i had already seen some pico boards, similar to rpi pico but under risc-v but seeing rpi foundation jump into it is great news, because they have funding and developers to really support the board, make great documentation and make software that actually works, and you dont need to expend days trying to burn the firmware to then have an unstable mess
RISC has been a thing for a long time, but time has left so very many architectures by the wayside - let's look at a company that's been in business for 28 years to see how many architectures they support: MikroTik. As of its most current release, RouterOS is available on the following CPU cores: arm, arm64, mipsbe, mmips, ppc, smips, tile, x64, and x86. The latter two are CISC of course. Those are just the more powerful ones, to say nothing of the various microcontrollers floating around out there like the NEC V850 family (V810 in the VirtualBoy) and the Atmel AVR (on the Arduino), to pick two.
Probably my favorite projects from the Pico are the controllers for various arcade games, like the mai Pico, IIDX Pico, and AIC Pico. Hope that the Pico 2 will help with these!
I'm most excited about the extra PIO and double RAM! Now, we should be able to make a really great tilemap/sprite VDP for retrocomputer projects! (It's cool that hobbyists were able to emulate the Yamaha V9958 (MSX 2+) with the original Pico, but even the SNES PPU blows that away.)
A lot of 3D Printer MCUs have adopted the RP2040. I think the Toolhead PCB on the Positron you are building has a RP2040 on it. I’m excited to see the RP2350 get adopted and what changes that may bring. Faster, more IO & lower power consumption sounds like seriously positive improvements for toolhead boards and more.
Currently daily drive a Unicomp Mini M, it is a tenkeyless buckling spring keyboard that is a modern take on the IBM Kishsaver. The one I have is a revised variant that uses a RP2040 as the controller. It is so crazy to see the RP2040 be used for so many things, it so versatile!
Thank you for creating this video. I've been using a lot of Raspberry Pi's (mainly zero's) here in my home, and in the last 12 months or so, added Pico's to my collection, because of their price and micropython, which has "grown up". :) I was wondering about the Pico 2 and your video helps me out. Thanks!
I have a dozen or so Pico, Pico W, and Pico RBG boards on my bench that I have done little more than solder pins on, not even sure what the intended projects were.... now I need to get some 2's to add to the collection! Thanks Jeff, i didn't need that money anyhow. < insert project suggestions here >
you are not alone .. 3 of my 4 Picos are still in the original package .. but I managed to connect an OLED display and a barometric pressure sensor and made it display the height.
An implementation of the MSX2+ standard, running via low-level emulation! :) And then possibly, a porting of the touted MSX3 VM64 (virtual machine for ARM-cpu's, to run code on, the msx-equivalent to the VM that android apps run on) to the Risc-V silicon on the Pico2. The VM64 is intended for ARM-devices, so a device like this, which have both types of cores, would be ideal for porting it to RISC-V. Sadly the specs and such for the VM64 has not yet been released... x_x But hey! A low-level RISC-V MSX-emulator would still be amazing.
I thought I was the only stupid ones - who keeps collecting electronics components, ICs, and lot more while hardly made anything apart from basic testing and some soldering. I did made some prototypes but again with tons of wires - disassemble them :(
its so exciting that we are finally starting to retire older technology with newer, more efficient, more powerful stuff! On Linux we replace X11 with Wayland. AV1 replaces x265 and x264 HVEC. RISC-V and ARM slowly replaces x86. Exciting times!
@@PragandSens i still have so many devices relying on mUSB, that i dont really mind the non-USB-C thing. But its coming in the next iteration, i'm sure. otherwise, just buy third-party picos with USB-C when they are available :)
This is amazing. I had a project which was pulling Sega Genesis RGB feed in via USB and the margins were quite thin. Just that extra clock boost alone will do tons of good, but more than that, I wonder if they've improved the onboard ADC? There was a mostly unpatchable issue with it reporting faulty values in the RP2040.
Thank you for mentioning all those projects! I would love to see a whole video dedicated to explaining some of them in more detail. The micro controllers are super neat, but it's difficult to understand their potential unless you invest months of tinkering... Or or just have someone explain it. 😁
The on-board Flash options are VERY interesting as it makes it viable to integrate a RP2040 as a truly stand-alone device. Rather than be reliant on the presence of an external flash chip. Combined with the security features + the bigger IO variants and you got something that can actually rival STM32 chips proper in regards of commercial and possibly even Industrial applications (which has been dominantly STM32, PIC and AVR territory). For now though i haven't gotten to figuring out the PIO modules on my RP2040 boards yet. So i'm good.
I was at DEFCON 32 last weekend and they announced the chip there by building one into all the badges - very cool (In this case, the chip is being used to run a gameboy color emulator with a custom ROM, along with some LEDs, an IR blaster, accelerometer, and a USB-C charging/flashing port)
Awesome news. I really like the RiscV and Arm combo, I think that this shows that Raspberry Pi are on the RiscV for the long-term and we might get a Raspberry pi 6 or 7 with a new CPU.
You should probably be clearer that the RP2040 version of BlueSCSI is actually derived from the ZuluSCSI project from Rabbit Hole Computing, who have a long standing relationship with the designer of the original scsi2sd project. ZuluSCSI did borrow some file system handling elements from other projects, but the actual SCSI code (and the hardware design) was all down to ZuluSCSI and scsi2sd.
Last Thursday I picked up my DefCon 32 badge. I was super excited to find out, it already uses the RP2350 :D The first day I asked myself "how is a Pico running this?" (it wasn't - it was the new chip!)
I had issues with getting the pico into deep sleep reliably with circuit python. To my knowledge it still hasn't been fixed but might be getting worked on. Looking forward to picking up one of these Pico 2's to mess with.
Another example of a Pico powered thing is the new production run of Unicomp keyboards. I actually had problems with mine, the board missed a pullup resistor and the keyboard matrix had an inconsistent bridge. Initially I got an old controller but was able to repair the original board too. From which I learned that the Pico controller fixes the keyboard becoming unresponsive when left on a powered USB, though the new firmware. Unfortunately they ended up having to replace the entire board under warranty due to the matrix issue, which we only figured out after fixing the also faulty controller. I'm very happy with this new keyboard though and will probably get the old one serviced eventually, as that would fully fix it.
In the fighting game community, the pico is in heavy use in Haute 42 leverless controllers running the gp2040-ce firmware - thought you might be interested in this since you didn't mention it!
A few clarifications / updates:
You can actually use Arm + RISC-V-just, one of each core for a frankenmonster microcontroller. Can't use all four at the same time.
MicroPython has released two preview UF2s, one for the Arm cores, and one for the RISC-V cores.
As many have pointed out (thanks!) RP2040 was QFN-56, RP2350A QFN-60, so the pinout is slightly different (so not an exact drop-in replacement).
I don't know about ADC quality improvements or some of the other details many have asked about, so please check in on the Pi forums and in other reviews for more data-this video is meant to be a quick overview to introduce the things that mattered to me in my beginner-level use of microcontrollers :)
Oh and yes, it doesn't have USB-C ;)
There are some other 3rd party boards that add that, and an ever-useful reset button :)
If you can only use the ARM or RISC-V cores, why didn't they make multi-ISA cores?
@@JeffGeerling an important new feature given the popularity of the RP2040 in retro integrations is 5V tolerant GPIOs, albeit the chip does have to be powered up first.
Frankenmonster glued together by IPC? 🙃That's an interesting concept.🤔
@@chris-tal Even more interesting would be cores supporting multiple ISAs with microcode or within the instructions decoder(s) of the core(s) themselves without any Frankenmonster 'gluing' together multiple cores with some sort of 'IPC'.
I do think it's important to mention that the Hazard3 RISC-V cores in this thing are actually designed by Luke Wren, to quote Raspberry Pi "currently a Principal Engineer in the Raspberry Pi chip team". They didn't just grab some open-source RISC-V CPU; arguably, they did the opposite.
Good point-I've never met Luke, but it does look like he's been on Raspberry Pi's silicon design team for quite some time! I'm guessing he was also involved in RP1/RP2040 a bit, interesting seeing how much / how long Raspberry Pi's invested in their design process.
@@JeffGeerling Yes, he was on the RP2040 team.
@@JeffGeerlingi was wondering now that the pico 2 is using cortex M33 architecture, which is ARMv8, or 64 bit. However what are those 2 RISC V cores? Are they 32 bit, or 64 bit. I tried to find some information on those two Harvard 3 Risc-v cores, but I couldn't find out enough information about the RISC V cores that are inside the rp2350
@@sgodsellify seems to me like 32 bit Verilog there
so I would think cores are 32 bit as well
@@sgodsellify A little googling suggests the Hazard3 is a RV32I ISA, which is 32bit.
I'm the dev of LogicAnalyzer, and already have ordered three Pico 2 to upgrade the project among other things :D
It'll be cool to see how much better projects like yours will be with the extra horsepower!
ReadMe updated 20 mins ago. Nice! :D Truly exciting news.
@@JeffGeerling , I have a short showing of some results for my Raspberry Pi Pico raytracer. I never expected this little board to perform like that. More memory will allow me a better resolution and caches.
So I saw this Seagate project that used 2 Risc-V chips one for encryption and the other for a computer module. Also I bought a Seagate and miss my mybook I wanted to partition the drive after it was formatted to Max since I don't have a Mac anymore and I spent 2 hours with customer service for them to say do these 6 steps I said that was the first screenshot I was already on step 5 before I bothered you.
I want to point out that that Lego brick *does* actually contain an RP2040 and an OLED display. The cable coming out of the back is just the USB tether to supply power. It's an incredibly impressive project.
Wow! An actual Lego-minifigure-scale 'computer'!
Imagine playing games with Lego hands though. 👷♀
@@petertrypsteen Indeed! Though there's no room for I/O, so all it can really do is play animations. One neat feature is that it can be powered by the same bricks as Lego motors.
Wait… has the USB port, and RP2040 can configure that for host mode. Maybe it actually could play games?
Edit: Oh yeah, there is a capacitive touch sensor, so you could also play something like Flappy Bird.
crazy we got Doom on a lego brick before GTA: 6
Still no usb C
Just wait for those cheaper chinese boards with USB-C and other goodies :p
that's why you buy some chinese knockoff of the pico that has everything the same, but a usb-c port. Never buying original until they switch.
SparkFun did it for them with the "SparkFun Pro Micro RP2350" released at the same time as this.
Guess they wanted it to be a drop-in replacement. But the original should have had it really.
🤷♂️
"Until next time, I'm Jeff Geerling"
Who are you going to be next time? The suspense is killing me.
i was wondering that too
At some point he might be Geoff Gearling
Until Jeff Geerling, he IS next time
Red Shirt Jeff, obviously
Dzheff Gearling
Dang, I wish they'd put usb c on them. Still looks cool though! Excited about RISC-V
Yeah; for that, there are 3rd party options at least... but hopefully next generation! The Zero's still stuck on micro USB too.
@@JeffGeerling Thanks didn't know that!
@@Log4Jake Yeah, the Zero 2 is still Micro USB, for whatever reason. 3rd parties have clones with dual-USB C though.
@@JayrosModShopI assume they designed themselves into a corner by having it on the original, and not wanting to break compatibility with the original footprint
I remember this being asked when the Pico released - Micro USB's ubiquity and companies pretty much throwing the connectors away are why the Pico uses the connector still, Type C isn't that much more expensive in price but they aren't as abundant and Pi's factory definitely have a ton left over from the past decade.
I should buy one and add it to my project pile that never gets smaller for some reason
Why buy *one* for the box in the drawer when you could buy *two*? lol, I know the feeling...
@@JeffGeerling this happened when i bought 5 picos and 3 pico w, i think i still have like 5 in the packaging
same. I have 3 original picos that I still don't know what I want to use them for. lol
I actually had no intention of buying one until this video. I have so many rp2040 boards. pico, pico_w, stamp, tiny2040, feather, pico-ice(rp2040 + fpga).... and then Jeff mentioned that it finally has a solid low power mode, and I have a wearable project that I originally wanted to use the rp2040 for but had to scrap because of the high power draw. Welp, if I'm going to order 1, I guess I'll order 2 for the pile.(although I'll probably order a stamp or a feather instead of the pico)
@@JeffGeerling I hate only having one of a component, especially MCUs and sensors. If you build it into a project then it is very useful to have a second just for quick tests and a spare in case something breaks.
I will probably get a few third party boards even though I don’t like the rpxxxx platform and especially how you program it in C.
ngl the Picoboy you mentioned in the video looks pretty sick! It's a really good price for a DIY console, especially with the discount code you provided in the description! 100% getting one! Thanks Jeff!!!
might have to get one too now 😅😅😅
@@Bruvsxtm Make sure you use the code in the description, save a little bit on it :)
The Arduboy is the same project, just much older with more support. An Arduino is the same thing as a Pico, it just doesn't have the "Raspberry Pi" buzzword.
The M33 includes an FPU and basic support for double precision. This is a huge improvement.
really? i must get one then
To be more specific: ARM specifies "optional single precision floating point unit" . Luckily, the FPU is included in the RP2350
They also have atomic instructions. No need for clunky hardware spinlocks anymore!
Looking at Arm's Cortex-M33 programming manual, I'm not seeing any instructions for double precision other than the fact that the FPU can load and store 64-bit values into two 32-bit registers. In particular, no double-precision arithmetic.
Having an FPU at all is still quite a big improvement, though!
Not only that but the Pico2/M33 uses Thumb2 which a massive step up for assembly programmers. Pico1/M0+ uses Thumb1 and is incredibly difficult to 'get right' because of the severely limited instruction set. I could go in to specifics, but Thumb1 has been a major pita. Everyone who's touched the M0+ at the instruction level will be grateful for this significant change.
RPI website claims hardware divide, single precision floating point hardware, and DSP acceleration are implemented as part of the ARM M33 core. For some apps (such as FFTs) that I commonly use, those features mean more than the small clock frequency bump. Also, one more ADC channel. Will be interested in how those pan out in real world tests.
While the RP2350 is the same size as the RP2040 is not a drop-in replacement. RP2350A uses a QFN60 package whereas the RP2040 uses a QFN56, meaning 4 more pins, plus the pinout is a little different.
True true... "sorta drop-in", didn't realize that until double-checking today!
I did a raytracer for the Raspberry Pi Pico 1, and I was already impressed with the performance. I can't wait to test the same software with RPI Pico 2. I can't wait for that new amount of memory!
i love this! ive always wanted to tip my toes into risc v programming and the barrier to entry has never been lower!
"The guy with the Swiss accent"... not to mention his tiny pointing hand... I can't think about him without thinking about that tiny pointing hand! 😂
I'm looking forward to seeing more about that B version, if anything to see what the additional GPIO provides. And of course, because I'm currently working on a project with the Pico W, I can't wait for the W version of the 2 to release as well.
I think Adafruit had the B version on their livestream earlier, first time I'd seen it!
7:50 unexpected jeff beatboxing is always a +1 from me
Bahaha
Excellent outtakes! Thanks for taking the time to point out so many the cool RP2040 projects that have been made already.
A great take on possible transition between ISAs. Great job RPi.
The home labbing community is the best. Your channel and the ones you're mentioning here and others you've highlighted in your other videos have created such a healthy, friendly, supportive and creative echo system. Well done, all of you.
I think it is also exciting that the new ARM cores come with a FPU, so any signal processing heavy applications will benefit greatly from that!
Why again micro USB? :(
cost!! nothing else!
The connector is a bit cheaper. The board cost so little it does matter. C would be nice but eh, not that big of a deal, need to have more cables handy when doing anything with it and it's sometimes a hassle, but a couple of seconds of hassle is worth it.
just get a pi 5
so that myfriends on Aliexpress could make clones and earn their buck too ;)
@@mythicalforce8658 Molex 2169900003 type-c and 0475900001 microusb are the same bulk price on digikey. In fact, the type-c is 0,02 cents cheaper but you also need to add a 5.1k resistor so it adds up to exactly the same. Even if it were more expensive I wouldn't give them cost as an excuse.
That's a really good idea to include the RISC-V cores *in addition* to familiar ARM cores. That's a beautiful way to lubricate the transition into a new world.
No USB C, though. I wonder why? It is physically larger which is the only reason I can produce to stick with micro USB.
USB-C isn't better than Micro-USB. Micro-USB is cheaper. Micro-USB is easier to solder too.
If you want USB-C, there are tons of ESP32/Arduino boards out there with USB-C. They are the same thing as a Pico.
@@quarteratom skill issue?
Back when Pi Pico was introduced, nearly 4 years ago, economies of scale hadn't caught up and MicroUSB was used for cost and availability. It was difficult enough to release ANY hardware during peak COVID and absolute chaos and saturation of supply routes.
Now it's just being retained for drop in compatibility. If you want there's any number of third party boards with USB C.
Size isn't the issue with USB-C. Waveshare uses a USB-C port in its RP2040-Zero with a fraction of the Pico board's footprint.
I think the main reason for sticking with Micro USB was to keep it as much of a drop-in replacement to the Pico as possible
Thanks for all the years of great content! ❤
These are the kind of risc-v cores I've been waiting for: not just open standard, but fully open source and implemented by a company with excellent support and community engagement! Great work, Raspberry Pi!
Jeff, I love your content. I also love that you point out that you're a beginner at some of this, as well as point to other creators! It shows us that you're really in it to **HELP** the community. We appreciate that. Keep up the good work, sir! ❤
Thanks! The only way to learn is to try new things, fail, try again, fail, etc.
Hopefully sometimes you succeed but sometimes you just realize something isn't really in your wheelhouse... for me, at least for now, that's low-level programming :D
I stick with micropython, which can do most of what I've ever needed to do with a microcontroller!
"There's no way to disable the speaker..."
Red Shirt Jeff begs to differ.
Hammer
There is always a way ... however once disabled, it may not always be possible to re-enable in future.
Now THIS is interesting. Guess I'll be buying a few to put away for future projects. After your interview, I did get the impression they were considering RISC-V, but I didn't expect it until at least this time next year, so this is quite an interesting surprise. It's not an SBC though, so it's not quite as interesting there. Being a drop-in replacement (assuming it is always that simple) is really exciting though. I'm loving all the RP2040 projects lately, especially in modding game consoles (I just installed one in my Switch last week, in fact), so hopefully this opens up a few more options for those.
Great video Jeff, and thanks for the shout out! It's really amazing what these little micro controllers can do.👍
Nice one Jeff and a big thanks for the bloopers!
2 ARM cores or 2 RISC-V cores? Faster? 2x Memory? more efficient?
Just $1 more than the previous version?
That is how you update your Hardware! GREAT job Raspberry Folks!
Hardware Companies have to learn from them!
great timing but I guess we need to wait for pico 2 W... (for WiFi connectivity)
The EU must be really angry that they still didn't switch to USB-C 😂
as **the** EU, I am, in fact furious
They aren't considered a market holder, so probably there will be no problems. I guess that if they could do it cheaper for micro USB I am fine with it. It is already expensive enough as is.
EU requires only standard plug. They don't say which standard.
@@uis246 Also, AFAIK, that regulation only applies to devices with rechargeable cells inside.
Everyone is
4:06 GOD DAMMIT IT'S PRONOUNCED "ZED-X SPECTRUM"!!!
Anyways, great video as always dude!
I am curious: what are yo pressing at 7:50? Is it a wireless remote for the camera? Or just a wired switch? Thanks for the video! I loved it!
I love this content! I'm a newbie on microcontrollers and I enjoy tinkering, so learning about new possibilities is something I always look forward.
By the way, your channel is so informative, I always find cool stuff!
Thanks for sharing and also for being an honest youtuber!
Preordered 2 of these 10 mins ago and the video is already here! Yay!
Thats interesting. Can't wait for the w-version.
I always enjoy outtakes, please more of that 😄
So jealous that you got a Radxa x4 already! I've developed this inexplicable love for everything N100 recently. Can't wait for the vid, man!
Have been using a Pico for half a year as a microcontroller for a Guitar Hero guitar controller thanks to Santroller. The Pico is incredible.
The Picoboy 2 looks pretty cool!
Honestly it's a little expensive for what it is... but it's made by an indie dev, and he's doing the software, hardware, CAD, everything-it's just cool to see what an individual can do these days, and I'm happy to support that effort.
I find it interesting that they decided to have both ARM and RISC-V on a single chip. I feel like one of them could be cut to make room on the silicon for more PIO blocks or more cores of the same architecture
I do think it's cool they added RISC-V so you could try it out and then switch over to ARM if it doesn't work for you, but I don't think it's the most practical way to do it.
Cortex M33? You mean we finally get hardware FPUs?! WOOOT!
I dont think the average computer engineer realizes how awesome these pico chips are.
Wow m a big fan of your content. It was an honor seing CurrentWave D on your bench 😊
Oh hey! Thanks for making it, I am happy to have something that improves on EEVBlog's original uCurrent design. Hopefully a few more people see the CurrentWave and pick one up too. Easier to explore microamps with it :)
Heat shrink on the alligator clips holding the board will be appreciated.
Heh you don't like scratching them up like that? :D
FYI I read in the specs that it’s not a drop in replacement due to adjusted power requirements and power pinouts, the 70x70 A variant IS however the same size as the 2040 footprint
True, missed that in my reading of the specs!
Drop in replacement you say???? Onboard flash and secure boot are MAJOR additions. Very exciting!!!
I promise I'll get to Axe Effect at some point. It's been sitting to the right of my keyboard for a month now lol :D
@@JeffGeerling We're hoping to have a PoE version announcement in October. I think you'll be VERY interested in seeing that one 🙂
@@CraftComputing Indeed, that's the killer app, no need for an extra wall wart and micro USB cable (they're harder to route to precise size!
I somehow didn't expect the Pico 2 despite the fact that my work's supplier discontinued a few Pico SKUs about a month ago. This is the best news!
If you're into retro gaming, one of the really cool use for a RP Pico is as a modchip. It's slowly replacing the old-school modchip because it's so much cheaper, easier to install and to update. The best example is the PicoBoot, which is for the GC. It's basically better on every aspects compared to the old hardware mods because while the more common XenoGC could only let you boot unsigned disc (so you still needed a boot disc to use homebrews and backups and a working drive), the PicoBoot can simply bypass the regular boot altogether, so you only need a SD adapter and you can remove the disc drive if you don't need it. There's also one for the Xbox, which is also apparently better than the old modchip and software mod, but I don't know much about it.
There are also a lot of smaller projects, like emulating a Memory Card on the PS1 and letting you boot backups without mods, replacing the memory card of the N64 (which uses RAM and a battery), using one as a programmer to mod an Xbox 360 (a lot cheaper than the ones usually used), creating a cheap flash cart for some consoles, etc. I've even seen some projects for turning one into a capture card for some specific consoles (like the Genesis RGBlast, which convert the RGB signal into USB).
Congratulations to the Raspberry Pi Foundation on the impressive achievement with the RISC-V board! Jeff, your dedication in the content to innovation and open-source technology continues to push the boundaries and inspire the tech community. This milestone of the Pi foundation is a testament to RISC V vision and commitment to making embedded computing accessible to all ❤
Raspberry Pi Ltd, not the Foundation.
One thing I love about rpi is how consistently the new versions are drop in. It’s good and thoughtful design
My personal introduction to the Pi Pico was with the "PiTrex" project, which is a modern Pi powered cartridge for the classic Vectrix system. It really breathes some new life into that thing!
“The RP2350 chip on top is also a drop in replacement for the RP2040”
Actually this is incorrect! Both chips are 7x7mm QFN but the RP2040 has 56 pins and the RP2350 has 60 pins!
I have not yet checked how closely the various pins align or how much work a design upgrade would be, tho I will certainly be doing that upgrade on my motor controllers!
Oh, I missed that-thought they were identical but I didn't look close enough-there are four extra pins!
@@JeffGeerling Indeed! I just tagged you on a post on twitter with a side by side comparison of the datasheet pinouts. Things are pretty similar but there are new power pins and things moved a bit, so some care will be needed in layout updates.
I actually ordered it today, and hoping to get it soon. I've used Pico in most of my projects, it's the best Microcontroller by a long shot. Pico 2's currently on Backorder and I'm expected to recieve it in a month.
Love the RISC-V adoption, but is that a USB-B Micro? 😕
Guess it makes sense if it's meant to be a drop-in replacement for the Pico 1.
The real sauce will be when RPi drops the RP2350 (both A and B) as a single chip you can get.
Can’t wait for custom keyboards to be using this!!!
@@fujinshuOn the Raspberry Pi blog post, they ended by presenting third party boards from official partners like Adafruit which use USB-C. They should be available over the next month.
Very interesting - I'd love to see a (small) FPGA incorporated in to a future version. I know, wishing for the next version already.
For now the inclusion of Risc V cores in to a 'tinkerer' device is not a bad idea... I suspect it was done because Raspberry Pi had some spare real estate post die-shrink - a reason for the lower power draw?
this is amazing to see, i had already seen some pico boards, similar to rpi pico but under risc-v but seeing rpi foundation jump into it is great news, because they have funding and developers to really support the board, make great documentation and make software that actually works, and you dont need to expend days trying to burn the firmware to then have an unstable mess
That's really cool, Jeff. You have the spirit of an educator.
Thanks for the bloopers at the end. I was sitting here wondering if I would be able to nail specs like that. I guess we're all human.😊
1:12 the rp2350 is not a drop in replacement for the rp2040 unfortunately. The 2040 is a qfn56 and the 2350 is a qfn60.
All aboard the RISC-V HYPE TRAIN!
RISC has been a thing for a long time, but time has left so very many architectures by the wayside - let's look at a company that's been in business for 28 years to see how many architectures they support: MikroTik. As of its most current release, RouterOS is available on the following CPU cores: arm, arm64, mipsbe, mmips, ppc, smips, tile, x64, and x86. The latter two are CISC of course. Those are just the more powerful ones, to say nothing of the various microcontrollers floating around out there like the NEC V850 family (V810 in the VirtualBoy) and the Atmel AVR (on the Arduino), to pick two.
Probably my favorite projects from the Pico are the controllers for various arcade games, like the mai Pico, IIDX Pico, and AIC Pico. Hope that the Pico 2 will help with these!
I loved the bloopers at the end, amazing! 😆
I'm most excited about the extra PIO and double RAM! Now, we should be able to make a really great tilemap/sprite VDP for retrocomputer projects! (It's cool that hobbyists were able to emulate the Yamaha V9958 (MSX 2+) with the original Pico, but even the SNES PPU blows that away.)
A lot of 3D Printer MCUs have adopted the RP2040. I think the Toolhead PCB on the Positron you are building has a RP2040 on it. I’m excited to see the RP2350 get adopted and what changes that may bring. Faster, more IO & lower power consumption sounds like seriously positive improvements for toolhead boards and more.
Oh hello 😁
I totally forgot about the 2040s on the Positron, lol. adding the mainboard to the base plate tomorrow!
Thank you Jeff for this video. Pico 2 is a great addition. I'm sure this little thing will be a champion in the Pi universe!
Never expected a drop-in replacement. This is awesome!
I read the title as intended and the pun was glorious.
Currently daily drive a Unicomp Mini M, it is a tenkeyless buckling spring keyboard that is a modern take on the IBM Kishsaver. The one I have is a revised variant that uses a RP2040 as the controller. It is so crazy to see the RP2040 be used for so many things, it so versatile!
Thanks for the insightful video Jeff.
Thank you for creating this video. I've been using a lot of Raspberry Pi's (mainly zero's) here in my home, and in the last 12 months or so, added Pico's to my collection, because of their price and micropython, which has "grown up". :) I was wondering about the Pico 2 and your video helps me out. Thanks!
I have a dozen or so Pico, Pico W, and Pico RBG boards on my bench that I have done little more than solder pins on, not even sure what the intended projects were.... now I need to get some 2's to add to the collection! Thanks Jeff, i didn't need that money anyhow. < insert project suggestions here >
you are not alone .. 3 of my 4 Picos are still in the original package .. but I managed to connect an OLED display and a barometric pressure sensor and made it display the height.
An implementation of the MSX2+ standard, running via low-level emulation! :) And then possibly, a porting of the touted MSX3 VM64 (virtual machine for ARM-cpu's, to run code on, the msx-equivalent to the VM that android apps run on) to the Risc-V silicon on the Pico2. The VM64 is intended for ARM-devices, so a device like this, which have both types of cores, would be ideal for porting it to RISC-V. Sadly the specs and such for the VM64 has not yet been released... x_x But hey! A low-level RISC-V MSX-emulator would still be amazing.
I only have two actually running things right now-the other 8 I bought are in a box alongside two baggies full of ESP8266 and ESP32s :D
I thought I was the only stupid ones - who keeps collecting electronics components, ICs, and lot more while hardly made anything apart from basic testing and some soldering. I did made some prototypes but again with tons of wires - disassemble them :(
Nice! You are also watching the Guy with a Swiss accent with a new episode and fresh ideas around sensors and Microcontrollers 🙂
I'm looking forward to seeing what people do with these. Console mod chips made with the original have been LITERAL game changers. It's gonna be epic.
Hi Jeff,
The rp2350 is not the same pinout as the rp2040 and is not a drop in replacement.
(rp2040 was QFN-56 and rp2350 is QFN-60/QFN-80)
Thanks Jeff. Raspberry Pi really should be giving you a salary. I've bought so much stuff thanks to you.
Sorry not sorry!
But also, it's good they don't pay me because then I couldn't talk up other things I like without some amount of bias!
its so exciting that we are finally starting to retire older technology with newer, more efficient, more powerful stuff!
On Linux we replace X11 with Wayland.
AV1 replaces x265 and x264 HVEC.
RISC-V and ARM slowly replaces x86.
Exciting times!
Yes but where is it the microUSB replacement for USB-C
@@PragandSens i still have so many devices relying on mUSB, that i dont really mind the non-USB-C thing. But its coming in the next iteration, i'm sure. otherwise, just buy third-party picos with USB-C when they are available :)
I'm so hyped about getting a bigger package with more pins.
Can’t wait for the wh version
I've been looking forward to this, and really pleased that it's pin compatible.
Anything RISC V- Hooray! I'm just basically a spectator, glad to see anything moving tech in an open direction.
Well I was expecting builtin flash, but still, its is huge improvement over the original pico.
Awesome video 😀
Thanks👍
This is amazing. I had a project which was pulling Sega Genesis RGB feed in via USB and the margins were quite thin. Just that extra clock boost alone will do tons of good, but more than that, I wonder if they've improved the onboard ADC? There was a mostly unpatchable issue with it reporting faulty values in the RP2040.
Supposedly it's better, but I am not qualified to test it or confirm that!
Thank you for mentioning all those projects! I would love to see a whole video dedicated to explaining some of them in more detail. The micro controllers are super neat, but it's difficult to understand their potential unless you invest months of tinkering... Or or just have someone explain it. 😁
The on-board Flash options are VERY interesting as it makes it viable to integrate a RP2040 as a truly stand-alone device. Rather than be reliant on the presence of an external flash chip. Combined with the security features + the bigger IO variants and you got something that can actually rival STM32 chips proper in regards of commercial and possibly even Industrial applications (which has been dominantly STM32, PIC and AVR territory).
For now though i haven't gotten to figuring out the PIO modules on my RP2040 boards yet. So i'm good.
Would be interesting if the RiscV and ARM cores are just separate instruction decoders and otherwise share the ALU and other internal gubbins.
I was at DEFCON 32 last weekend and they announced the chip there by building one into all the badges - very cool
(In this case, the chip is being used to run a gameboy color emulator with a custom ROM, along with some LEDs, an IR blaster, accelerometer, and a USB-C charging/flashing port)
No usb c 😢
it surly cant be costier
It’s mind blowing
It looks like they did it for backward compatibility. It seems logical
@@biblbrox but micro-b usb breaks so much
No problem. There are other boards with the same chip and USB-C.
Jeff, get some plastic tubing on your croc clips to avoid damaging the boards!
raspberry pico is also big in game controller scene. A lot of fightbox, arcade stick, game controllers are based on RP2040.
So I'm finding! And some custom keyboards.
Awesome news. I really like the RiscV and Arm combo, I think that this shows that Raspberry Pi are on the RiscV for the long-term and we might get a Raspberry pi 6 or 7 with a new CPU.
Typ C for the win....
.......I guess Soldering it is
Every USB-C port I've seen has different pads, even those that are only pinned for 2.0. So good luck.
thanks for the out takes Jeff , also the great info
You should probably be clearer that the RP2040 version of BlueSCSI is actually derived from the ZuluSCSI project from Rabbit Hole Computing, who have a long standing relationship with the designer of the original scsi2sd project. ZuluSCSI did borrow some file system handling elements from other projects, but the actual SCSI code (and the hardware design) was all down to ZuluSCSI and scsi2sd.
Last Thursday I picked up my DefCon 32 badge. I was super excited to find out, it already uses the RP2350 :D
The first day I asked myself "how is a Pico running this?" (it wasn't - it was the new chip!)
I had issues with getting the pico into deep sleep reliably with circuit python. To my knowledge it still hasn't been fixed but might be getting worked on. Looking forward to picking up one of these Pico 2's to mess with.
Another example of a Pico powered thing is the new production run of Unicomp keyboards.
I actually had problems with mine, the board missed a pullup resistor and the keyboard matrix had an inconsistent bridge.
Initially I got an old controller but was able to repair the original board too.
From which I learned that the Pico controller fixes the keyboard becoming unresponsive when left on a powered USB, though the new firmware.
Unfortunately they ended up having to replace the entire board under warranty due to the matrix issue, which we only figured out after fixing the also faulty controller.
I'm very happy with this new keyboard though and will probably get the old one serviced eventually, as that would fully fix it.
Oh, I've just got the pun in the title. Yeah it's a risky bet!
What's the device you use for current consumption measuring? Great videos!
That's a CurrentWave by dothediy.com - been very handy for tiny power draw measurements!
In the fighting game community, the pico is in heavy use in Haute 42 leverless controllers running the gp2040-ce firmware - thought you might be interested in this since you didn't mention it!