Handsacre, The End of the Line for HS2?
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- In today's video we will be taking a look at the new proposed end point for HS2 joining the West Coast Mainline at Handsacre in Staffordshire.
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Sunak is off his cracker.
The easy solution is to build at least phase 2a to allow all the Manchesters, Liverpool and Glasgow to miss Handacre. The junction was never designed to handle all the north WCML service and it was always intended to just have the Staffords to use Handsacre in the long term.
I think ultimately 2a will have to be built, but will be delayed.
@@Rail_FocusI hope you're right🤞
We used to be known as a nation of our word,shame on a succession of self serving politicians and their incompetent minions ! Interesting/informative video.
Very useful summary. Hopefully the infrastructure will be designed to allow the original northern extension to be completed when a more enlightened government is in power.
It reminds me of the M25 link around Redhill in the late 70’s . Abandoned structures which were reinstated and are now used by millions.
I'm hoping at the very least Phase 2a is constructed, but it will take a lot of pressure to make Sunak see sense before it's too late. Without 2a, Handsacre Junction will have to be redesigned, which could take years, especially if it has to go back to Parliament.
*sigh* - the phase 2 cancellation is so short sighted - let’s hope a new government will overturn this
And find a way to stop the construction companies ripping off the taxpayer. Civil servants not over engineering the specs would be a good start.
A decision made with no real grasp of what it meant. Our only hope is that Sunak can be made to see sense over phase 2a at the least, or a successive Government overturns his decision . Either way years will be added to the project now 🙁
Can't really blame construction companies for Government over specification. Many companies have helped to achieve savings where they can.
To prevent severe overcrowding on the WCML, perhaps they will terminate HS2 at Rugely Trent Valley! Right now I would not put it past them.
@Rail_Focus well said. The cost overspends are solely down to no planning being put in place, only a political whim, with no thought or detail beyond building a railway from Euston to Manchester. Then years later thousands of LA planning requirements became known together with the hundreds of highway alterations, power connection location points etc along a line stretching 200 miles. The initial political whim was, in effect a signed blank cheque. And the Contractor's are duty bound by their partnership contracts to participate in finding cost savings but nobody can make a 150 billion pound railway become a 35 billion railway.
Really just shows the cost of the perpetual political meddling. Incredibly short sighted actions by the Tories, as ever
3:46 implying that Sunak evaluated anything other than 'short term political gain' when making the decision
Quite, but we should expect that a PM understands the decisions they're making before making them.
@@Rail_Focusunfortunately, it seems like our leadership cares about nothing more than stuffing their pockets with as much money as they can right now
This is an incredibly poor government. The problem is that the alternative is no better.
I live in Handsacre. The destruction of farms. houses and woodlands are unforgivable. People have lost businesses and their livelihoods. For what?
If phase 2a at the very least isn't built then I fear very little.
Not to mention south and northeast of Lichfield.
Very informative, thanks! I knew the actual end point had to be at some junction somewhere.
Interesting video. I might have expected more passive provision for the permanent way ahead should the decision to build HS2 be changed n the future. I wonder also what will all those platforms at Curzon St be used for now that you only need, like 2 of them? Connect to HS1 and make 1 a Eurostar terminal maybe?
At the very least there should be passive provision, but who knows what will happen.
It's a purely ideological decision, the immediate land sale and lack of passive provision shows as much.
@@tomwatts703 I'm not sure what ideology that would be given it was a Conservative government that first passed the bill to build the thing in the first place. The cost ballooning > £100bn which makes it no longer worthwhile Is what did for it. Had they not caved to NIMBYs in the Chilterns and north London requiring miles of extra tunnel, you might be nearly complete by now.
@@SirKenchalot we've had three PMs since the bill was passed, and the prevailing Tory attitudes to a lot of things have definitely shifted since then. Even if cost was the defining factor in the decision, it was clearly made with no consideration as to what would come *after* the cancellation other than 'prevent any possible future revival of Phase 2'.
@@SirKenchalotI’m not sure I have a useful theory of why they’re doing this, but if it was about cost, then it’d make sense to build 2a, because it’s significantly cheaper than 1, and provides the highest RoI.
That said, I’m not sure there’s a useful ideological reason for building a train from Handsacre Junction to Old Oak Common; given the quality of the network north document, it’s possible that Sunak actually just didn’t do any useful research before declaring it cancelled.
Anyone who is observant will have noted Armitage at some time. Next time when visiting a toilet look out for Armitage Shanks, you cant miss it. Well, perhaps.
🚽
Levelling up, My arse.
I am more surprised that Sunak didn't pull the plug on the whole thing.
Nah, phase 1 is way passed the point of no return.
@@Rail_Focus Never underestimate the power of the government to pull the plug at the last minute.
Let's face it, this government is useless and non of them deserve the effort it takes for a vote.
Very informative video as usual. Didn't know about the specifics of the original Handsacre connection redesign. All this decision has done is put more pressure on the existing network North of Rugeley. We need Phase 2a at an absolute minimum. I just hope that the compulsory purchased land does not get sold off before the next election. Then we'd have to depend on Labour potentially to reinstate the line (if they get into power). I just fear that Starmer might shy away from such a big decision.
Let's just hope that there's GE before Rishi can do any real damage to the Phase 2a route.
@@Rail_Focus 🤞
Always a white elephant vanity project, should never have started, but having started should have been completed as intended.
It's not a vanity project, it was always about capacity, but that argument was particularly well understood
I agree with the second half of your sentence.
Should have used the Grand Central railbed from the beginning.
It does. The part that's actually useful and not built upon anyway
Thirty years after the Channel Tunnel was opened there is only one station in the UK with direct rail services to mainland Europe. That's what we should be talking about.
Given that HS2 was designed to relieve the capacity constraints on the busiest mixed use railway in Europe, namely the WCML, a connection to the Channel Tunnel goes under would be nice to have, not something that's essential.
@@Rail_Focus And eventually the penny will drop - even in the Home Counties - that the HS2 strategy is actually about CAPACITY. The WCML from Brum to Euston (especially south of Rugby) is stuffed full. Local commuter "stoppers" mix with long-distance Pendolino trainsets (designed for 140MPH, only ever timetabled at 125MPH). The new alignment will separate the high-speed long-distance flow from the stoppers - to EVERYONE's advantage. Network Rail spent £16billion over 20 years on OUG-1 and PUG-2 and too the WCML to its maximum-ever capacity. Like it or not, a new line is needed - and that requirement will NOT go away.
Thanks
Thank you so much 😀
As a canal boater I've certainly heard of Handsacre and Rugeley, which is a town and not a village. At least this does suggest HS2 may have more use than just as a glorified commuter line to London from Brum, but what a shambles. I'm afraid I agree with the commenter who mentioned Armitage Ware. If the section north of Birmingham was always more important, why not start there? Answers on a postcard from anyone who doesn't live in London?
You can't start in the north without having somewhere for the trains to actually go. And phase 1 is important for releasing capacity on the most constrained sections of the WCML. But phase 2 would have provided the most benefits for the north.
...the "British" way of doing things... sigh
Utterly depressing. Not a video I enjoyed making, but thought it was important to.
No. Its the TORY way of doing things.
And you're surprised? If you've read the First Beeching Report you'll have seen the quote from Macmillan stating that the railways have to be sized to meet today's needs and nothing for future needs. A sharp contrast to those of the founding fathers of our national railway network.
@@EdgyNumber1Tony Blair or Kier Starmer wouldn't do the same thing? It's the _capitalist_ way of doing things.
HS2 really should have gone to Crewe and East Midlands parkway (even if they cut speeds down to 155-186mph to try and cut costs), as at least then, you would have had the capacity relief of HS2 on the MML and WCML not to mention that it probably would have been cheaper to have gotten these parts built compared to Leeds and Manchester as most of these legs would have been rural anyway, so there wouldnt have been many NIMBYs to worry about doing these legs
Agree it should go to Crewe as a minimum, but reducing the speed really would reduce the cost significantly. The biggest costs are land and civils which don't really change a great deal if lowering the speed from a maximum of 225mph to 186mph. Phase 1 was arguably over-specified, but having built that section it doesn't make any sense not to build the rest.
Does anyone know if the hs2 tunnels already built would be ok to take a roro train?
Tunnels possibly, but no roro facilities in London, or possibility of.
About five years ago I was talking to a local politician in Stafford who said HS2’would make Stafford the centre of the world. Even more without phase 2. Stafford would be a major junction. It would be quicker to get from Wolverhampton and the west to Birmingham via Stafford changing to HS2 than to go via Birmingham. Or to London. The huge problem in this area is the overcrowded Wolverhampton Birmingham line. Everything goes at slow speeds. Many cross country services use it. Your diagrams do not show all the services that use HS2 from the north to Birmingham - or is that part of the plan cancelled? It so it would be a disaster.
The diagram just showed the service that would operate to London via Handsacre. But without HS2 phase 2 there will be no HS2 services from the North to Birmingham, there simply won't be enough capacity. Manchester passengers will be stuck with the existing Cross Country services, whilst Scotland will retain the existing Glasgow to Euston vis Birmingham New St service.
Oh dear. The Wolverhampton- Birmingham line is awful - overcrowded. The other big problme on WCML is the two track section from Milford, through Shugborough tunnel to Colwich. But there's a lot of development behind Stafford station funded on the basis that it will be a major interchange. Isn't that more the case without Phase 2?@@Rail_Focus
The problem is the XC services from Manchester are needed as they serve intermediate stations and provide connectivity with the South. Without HS2 phase 2 and the capacity it would provide the only option would be to retain XC services or replace them with HS2 services from Manchester to Birmingham Curzon St. But in reality that would mean trying to squeeze more traffic between Colwich and Handsacre so even that option is questionable.
Glasgow and Edinburgh would have had HS2 services to Curzon St as well, but this was only possible with the Golborne Link.
Sunak has chosen the absolute worst place to terminate HS2. Handsacre was only ever intended as a stop gap.
Please do a video round HS2 Interchange
Like this one? 😉
ruclips.net/video/JvbxbzaZkmE/видео.html
Nice video. I’m glad it isn’t running past Handacre as it’s stops the devastation of the countryside between Handsacre to Crewe
🙄
North of Kingsbury to here BBV has abandoned all the sites and locked the gates as you can see here. The whole area has been left in a big brown mess. A5 bypass at hints has roadworks indefinitely due to abandoned pilling works. A huge eyesore for the local communities to cope with. Mothballing sites still costs money so what is the next plan? Who knows
It must be frustrating for residents and business owners being in a state of limbo.
Just look at it this way, a sponge squeezed dry and all the goodness taken out, same thing with the London dome.
0:33 The satellite view - cum - map you have put up has a number of increasingly err... let's say interesting place names which someone with too much time on his hands could easily link to the topic of the video.
The top two in my mind are The Sale due East of the map pin and Farewell due South.
Brilliant!
Coupled, of course with the one you have captioned 3:25
Woodend lane says it all. Not a day went past without someone wailing about tree felling/woodland destruction.
Hi, Great video. What's the latest on this?
Nothing new to report at the moment.
Wouldn’t it now make more sense to shorten the line and connect to WCML just east of Lichfield so the line from Derby that meets the Cross City Line could in theory be electrified and join HS2.
Not really, the longer the sections of HS2 the better. No telling what impact that would have on existing Trent Valley services.
@@Rail_Focus It makes no difference to me anyway if I have to change at Old Oak Common as it will probably result in my journey from Liverpool into central London being longer than it currently is.
A positive is that the WCML to Manchester will now be retained in full. It is a shorter, quicker route to get London to Manchester via Stoke than via Crewe. If HS2 (2a) had been built the WCML between Handsacre Junction and Manchester would have been gradually worn down. The railway companies need heaps of tax payer subsidy to survive as it is.
In what world would the WCML to Manchester not be retained in full?? The freight companies alone were already asking for more paths before HS2
He's a radical idea, encouraging more people to use the railway to reduce subsidy. That's exactly what HS2 would've done, now we're going to have to squeeze more out of the existing railway meaning reliability will suffer and we'll be lucky if there's space for existing freight never mind more freight on rail.
@@andrewreynolds4949 I’m guessing people said the same about the Grand Central Main Line before Dr. Beeching considered it an unnecessary duplication and closed it.
@@Rail_FocusI think if they wanted more people to use rail then better east to west connections should have been prioritised. Also a direct connection with HS1 might have got people off planes and into trains for direct euro connections. There should have been a strategic plan about the future of UK railways as a whole before HS2 was signed off.
@@Rick2009h At the time of its closure the GCML was an unnecessary duplication
Old oak to curzon st. Hardly city centre to city centre. What a waste of money we dont apparently have.....lets wait for the reports of the big bonuses (not sure what for yet) paid out to directors involved in the mass mis management of this project.....
🙄
The whole project has been doomed by gross incompetence in policy, design, and management from Government level and below. Whatever the original objectives were, they are not going to be achieved now. I was never in favour of HS2 as planned, but Old Oak Common to Curzon Street is a joke. Whether or not the Handsacre connection works remains to be seen. I doubt that I shall be around to find out.
I would even say that the poor budget control and over engineering has seriously damaged Britain by diverting funds from cheaper projects that could have otherwise been carried out improving the whole network. A steady flow of orders to industry is far better than the feast and famine that afflicts or rail manufacturing today.
There's an awful lot of gold-plating to pander to some of the "environmentalist" crowd that threw such a fit over the project. As stupid as it sounds there's still a few vocal ones out there. But that's a significant part of what's driven up the cost
It could be argued phase 1 was over engineered, with structures designed to last 100 years without significant maintenance, but it's not a reason to cancel the rest of the line. We're building arguably the most expensive and difficult bit so we may as well build the rest.
@@Rail_Focus Although, as I said earlier that I was not in favour of the project, I do agree with you that the most expensive bit is what is being done now, so cancelling the additional cheaper bits which would actually go somewhere useful (like Manchester and Liverpool) means that the huge costs incurred so far will never be recovered. I would be tempted to carry on, but with the designers reined in- No unnecessary tunnelling, and line speed no more than 250km/h. After all, hasn't the official excuse for the line been changed from speed to capacity?
The best hope is that we can get the Tories out as soon as possible and get a new Government in that will reinstate the original plan - that not only was planned out and evidenced, but already underway as this video reports. Cancelling the rest of the project at this stage is a colossal waste of money.
He'll have sold the land before the election
Mark Harper has the headache now of finding the money for those switches.
Not just the switches, but WCML upgrades.
It's not true that Armitage is an little-known village that no-one has heard of - it's the home of Armitage Ware, a famous brand of "sanitary ware"; i.e. toilets. Quite an appropriate location for the end of a project whose principal function seems to be p***ing infinite amounts of money down the drain.
🙄
@@Rail_Focusbit cheeky really tbh. I'm from Armitage.
As a retired train driver, let me run this past you ....
Some facts about HS2 that they won't tell you ...
Initially, Toton was the prefered choice of station on the eastern leg between Birmingham and Leeds.
Save half an hour from that station they said .... (trains nearer to the destination would save far less time).
Passengers from Nottingham or Derby would have to travel to Toton by bus, tram or car .... which would take half an hour.
Travelling by normal rail instead would save that half an hour, so the maths don't tally.
Also, passengers for intermediate stations on ordinary rail routes would see their services cut or fares raised if HS2 took away their main income.
A seminar with local polititians also showed how out of touch they were ... boasting that there would be a HS2 train leaving every 3½ minutes.
Added to that, trains from Manchester merging at Birmingham would also be running at the same intervals, but for the sake of argument, lets "assume" that trains would turn back at Birmingham and not be running through to London at 105 second intervals.
Even if trains ran at 10 minute intervals to London, there is not enough space to accommodate them at Euston (10 planned platforms reduced to 7).
Seven trains would arrive in just over an hour and each train would require at least 30 minutes turnaround (discharging passengers, cleaning, restocking, reloading passengers). It won't work. Plans to terminate the trains at Old Oak Common would mean more than a 30 minute bus / taxi / tube ride to the centre and so would save nothing. In fact it would cause extra congestion.
Further, my suggestion to continue the Manchester arm to Leeds (only 40 miles), using the savings made on cancelling the 125 mile eastern route to pay for any tunnelling through the Pennines, fell on blank expressions but maybe NOW is the time to put that forward.
Anyway, the government closed all the useful feeder railway lines back in the early 60's (especially in Wales and Scotland) and we already had a high speed route in the Great Central. Besides, Manchester and Leeds already have high speed lines to London with the WCML and ECML routes.
The normal railway can be speeded up by putting back double and quadruple lines after many of them were singled (bi-directional) and freight lines were removed.
The best thing I've heard in a long time is that HS2 is being scrapped.
As a retired train driver you know the WCML is already largely 4 tracked. Seems strange for a train driver to be celebrating a reduction in capacity and rail funding being "diverted" to roads 🤷
I don't like Modern railways
How to waste billions. By cancelling all the bits of a project that make it economically and operationally worthwhile. Standard British Government.
What do you expect from a city spiv who is now prime minister
An excellent analysis of yet another short-term half-baked decision which will do nothing for overall rail capacity in our country. This failure to take a true long-term view will condemn this country to a new version of the Dark Ages. Thank Heavens that the Victorians left us a legacy of well-engineered (over-engineered?) rail lines which are only struggling now, 150 years after construction. Thanks for the video - a useful case history for future generations to look back on and ponder: "What were they thinking when they canned that new Spine railway?"
The more I've been looking into this the more depressing it gets. No one was consulted, just left with Sunak's mess.
Up south bound seems wrong to me
It takes some getting used to. Technically Up facing London.
The UK government is very much like the California government. Spend tens of billions of the people’s money to cut 14 minutes from the journey time between two cities. Make it make sense. It’s projecting a 4 hour journey from Glasgow to London instead of 4 hours 30 minutes today. It’s just not worth the expense.
It's not about journey times, but if HS2 is not built at least to Crewe then significant capacity will not be released, which is the main justification for building the line.
As a taxpayer, I am relieved that Phase 2 of HS2 has been cancelled. The HS2 budget is totally out of control, and represents very poor value for money.
The junction design at Handsacre does need to be looked at, though. HS2 needs to be connected directly to the WCML fast lines.
As a taxpayer I'm furious that Sunak is making short term decisions based on absolutely zero analysis of the implications. This will not save any money in the short term or long term and it's a lie to suggest there was ever any money to spend on "Network North", that's just not how infrastructure spending works.
@@Rail_Focus The Return on Investment for HS2 was always near zero. If an accurate figure for the construction costs had been used, the project would never have got off the drawing board. You're aiming your anger in the wrong direction - the rail industry views these projects as a licence to print money. No large project this century has come in on time and on budget. No commercial organisation would put up with that, but us taxpayers are just meant to suck it up? I love trains, but not to the extent that the industry can just take as much money as they want.
I hope HS2 is built to Euston, but there should be no more projects until the industry starts to deliver value for money.
phase 2a was literally one of the most affordable parts of hs2.
@@robotbeeptv4941 It avoided one of the most obvious sources of traffic, Stoke on Trent, and ran parallel to sections of the WCML where extra capacity isn't needed!! Total waste of money.
At the moment, I can watch on YT as New Zealand builds its First Dual Carriage-way road link North to South on the North Island but if I understand correctly also on the South Island, So why can't the Motherland of NZ, and also the womb of the Steam Train, Not piss-off the French by Finally matching them with a High-Speed train-link North to South of OUR Island,
What a crock!
Had HS2 been started in the North, it would’ve been completed……
With nowhere for trains to go. Phase 2 is important but doesn't work without phase 1
@@Rail_Focus And vice-versa; Whole line needed including 11 platforms at Euston to support 18tph (the highest service levels of ANY High-Speed railway anywhere in the world. True green travel for a nation which has ZERO chance of widening the strategic motorway network any further. Short-sighted decision, Rishi.
Idont know why this country keeps on putting idiots in government
Just read a book called How...Westminster works and Why...I doesn't. Written by Ian Dunt. It's all about repeatedly putting politicians in office, none of whom know what they are doing so we can kick them out at election time. That way we keep a democracy in place rather than being permanently stuck with a dictatorship. Very clever but also useless.
I personally do think that HS2 shouldn’t be cancelled but to be temporarily put on hold. Because of how much money it’s really costing and the UK is still struggling to earn a lot of money that can still afford to continue on the construction of HS2 to the North of England. As well as new trains to be built for HS2 and the HS2 Eastern Leg to also put on hold until enough money is available to continue on with the HS2 Eastern Leg.
The problem with the affordability argument is Sunak promised to spend "every penny" of the £36bn, so he clearly thinks the money is there. Also it's rumoured the Tories are going to cut inheritance tax, which will cost the taxpayer a lot more than HS2.
Exactly. 👍
The end of HS2 literally.
Hopefully not permanently
What can I say, knee jerk reactions by politicians as usual.
Really hope this government are removed and the next realise just how poor how this decision is
Fingers crossed
Little known villages ??? If you haven't heard of Armitage you must have spent your life pissing in a ditch 😂
Well with HS2 going down the pan it looks like it will be Shanks’ pony if you’re going north from Armitage. Sorry I couldn’t resist.
@@eddherring4972 shank's pony up the cut 😂