Seething Tankie Gives Best Joker Impression As I Employ Sneaky Debate Tactic
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
- Website - www.vaush.gg/
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Intro animation credit goes to / itismekyleg & / honeybunnbadger for the visuals, and / sound_sierra for the audio! Thank you!
00:00 Intro
00:38 Beginning With a Quote
02:43 What Are Your Arguments
3:52 Starting With Frankenstein’s Monster
08:25 Do We Need Democracy in Socialism?
12:52 Why Were The Pharaohs Not Socialist?
15:57 Distancing Socialism From You LUNATICS
20:45 USSR Propaganda
24:20 Going Over the Chart
27:44 Planned Economies and Markets
32:37 Joker Cringe
35:47 Shot at Redemption
42:28 Soviet Axis Talks Breakdown
48:04 Final Thoughts
#China #SovietUnion #Tankie
"Hitler's popularity dropped off after WWII..."
imagine that
🤣🤣🤣
"He was dead after WW2."
"No he wasn't!"
@@fruitygarlic3601 Zombie Hitler?
After WW2 began
@@ReubMann
When the rims are 3ft high...
You can find a dunk anywhere.
XD
My fave underrated moment was when someone in chat said "socialism with pharaoh characteristics"
...based Pharoism?
Woke like an Egyptian
So, Yu-Gi-Oh DM?
@@fugitiveunknown7806 this is amazing
@@fugitiveunknown7806 damn that was a good one
"The only difference between you and me, batman, is that I didn't have my parents' wealth to carry me through college and life"
LMFAO
Fax tho
I mean I suppose it's a bit of fair criticism.
Even still, you don't choose your own birthplace, and it would be stupid to not accept free college and - I'll say it - life in Beverly hills.
@@stevencripe3987 wait but hasn’t Vaush said multiple times he didn’t get a totally free ride? Like I thought he paid for his AA but then his parents helped him get his Bachelors. Or am I misremembering?
@@stevencripe3987 It would be a fair point if it hadn't been part of weird Joker rant. You know? The topic of Vaush's personal experience can be legitimately brought up as a criticism, but that doesn't mean any nasty comment is a legitimate criticism on the topic. You know?
"All it takes is one Vaush debate." - The Joker
😂😂😂😂😂😂
TANKY DEBATE LIFE CYCLE
1 ,,good faith" beginig
2 USRR simping
3 getting upset for calling out
4 agresive joker larp meltdown
5 cope
I get the rest, except for ZSRR. Please elaborate. I don’t wanna use Google.
@@SuperHuscarl
Okey
-saying that every thing bad that hapen is western propagadna
Like puting gays in gulags
Kiling political oponents
Children snitching on there parents
(If the were hiding food)
Stalin paranoia
-trying to make it look like ZSRR wasnt totalitarian
-pretenting that workers ACTUALLY have control the means of production couse THE PARTY was controling it
-saying that the the comunist party was democratic and cool
-trying to forget about things like gulags,genocides,ukraine famine, and war crimes like using its own soldiers as meat canon or killing them if they wouldnt go
(So you either die from enemy or YOU AND YOUR FAMILY gets executed by the state)
(i learn about that in my school im polish so nazis and zsrr crimes are very well educated subject to us)
@@SuperHuscarl They're probably Polish. ZSRR is what we called the USSR.
@@anonlvl1957. Ah, I see. I wasn’t questioning your logic on the subject matter, I literally meant that I didn’t know what ZSSR stood for as an acronym.
@@ami_87 you right
I have forgot that zsrr is arconym in polish version
,,związek socjalistyczny republik radzieckich"
Its usrr but in polish xf
Tankie: 'aloha'
Vaush: 'aloha'
Me: Vaush learned Hawaiian to counter this tankies introduction, a very sneaky tactic indeed!
Dumbass chat voice: Vaush was really uncharitable here by using coloniser language, bad optics
Real _~s l i p p e r y ~_
*Tankie:* "Aloha."
*Tankies:* "..."
*Vaush:* "Aloha to you too."
*Tankies:* "Oh my GAAAAWD cultural appropriation HOWDAREHEEEEE!? Triggered! _Voosh bad."_
What’s the other persin’s name
667th to break the 😈
The thing that frustrates me about tankies (and authoritarians in general) is just how sensitive they are. Almost as if their desire to enforce their will on others is an extension of deeper personal issues.
I have never met a tankie who seems like a normal, stable and happy person.
Well, yeah. Authoritarian mentality is basically just mental illness. Narcissistic wounds all the way down, baby.
Im glad i realised what a tankie was. I used to think i was marxist for wanting communism and marxism is without a state. Now im just anarcho socialism but democratic socialism is alright too i guess
@@Fragenzeichenplatte you haven’t met any tankies
@@Lavender_enjoyer "you haven’t met any tankies" said a very unhappy tankie.
:3
"You have soft hands" this could be a compliment depending on the situation 😂😂😂
Ohhhh, myyy~
@@fluffynator6222 lmao god damn it
Who died and made you Pol Pot? Geeez!!!
"Hitler was widely loved by his nation"
"No he wasn't, his popularity dropped after WW2"
"He was dead after WW2"
Lmfao
Yeah not a good look for the tankie.
He clarifies it as the start of WW2 (1940-45), but still he needed that popularity to even start it!
He obviously meant "after WW2 started," this isn't the flex you think it is.
@@ryanrockwell2245 he should of said what he meant to say because he looked like an idiot
This shit killed me 💀💀💀
@@ryanrockwell2245 It was pretty stupid by any account. How do you measure how popular a leader is? There was exactly one attempt to assassinate him. The people did not rise up against him. They continued to defend him at every opportunity. Were they mad that maybe they personally weren't liking the effects the war was having on their lifestyles and that the authorities were a little too authoritative? Sure. But like Trump, his supporters were mad supportive of him, despite their occasional unhappiness with his conduct. They didn't do anything like an honest poll to gauge their approval of their leader, did they? So, how do you know this? Some historians interpretation of a few tentative magazine articles? The self serving self reports of German survivors after the fact? HOW, exactly?
"You want to know the difference between me and you Vowshman? One bad material condition. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH" - the peoples joker
"You know Vaush, Commodities and markets are little like gravity, all it needs is a little push" - This guy
"Ha ha ha ha, hahaha, ha, ha, ha, oh, a-hee-hee, ha ha, oh, hee hee, hee ha, ahaha. [returns to normal voice] I thought my jokes were bad."
"Im da Jokah baybee"
Love the sneaky debate tactic on his part
Him: “Hitler’s approval rating dropped after World War II”
Vaush: “He was dead after World War II...”
Him: “Aren’t you supposed to be the first one to come out and say that approval ratings don’t matter?”
Vaushs face during that laugh 😂 you could tell he was trying to fight the cringe
I felt the cringe like an oppressive heat that I needed to shield my face from.
@@jontobin5942 when u put the frozen pizza in the preheated oven type beat
I don't know why him saying "the Stalin administration" made me laugh so much
Was it wrong
@@jpierremathieux4080 libtards destroyed
@@cantido56 what get lost
@@deeky1239
Idk, i didnt have a vote on Pompeo or Blinken. Seems like meaningless bs to me and can be used interchangeably.
@@jojomcmudak5379 just because the us is not as democratic as it could be does not mean its indistinguishable from a totalitarian regime
Joker Tankie: “You make tankies look insane”
Also Joker Tankie: “HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA”
all it takes is one bad day
Is it all you retain from this discussion
@@jpierremathieux4080 ... no?
I don’t think it him doing that
@@williamcole7488 doing what
"I need you to answer a rhetorical question." 😂
that got me too, along with "Hitler's popularity dropped after WWII" ........... :D
“Your source is wikipedia so your argument is invalid!”
-The dying scream of the Anti-intellectual.
If you care about intelectualism maybe you should also care for adequate sourcing. You'd get shamed out of any uni class if you referred to wikipedia 💀
@@ghoulishshift i don't fucking care
@@ghoulishshift wikipedia just compile info from a certain subject, it isn't a source on itself, and important articles don't lie, if they do you can just point out the sources from said article are unrealiable if you have the evidence for it, until them, nah, wikipedia is actually less biased than most sources people throw out there
@@ghoulishshiftYeah how dare Vaush not have an annotated bibliography available for this conversation, he’d get laughed out of uni for not having that. Oh wait, this isn’t university you absolute dolt.
@@ghoulishshiftWikipedia is useful resource during debates when you need quick info from an easily available source that is generally credible from a team of people at Wikipedia who are dedicated to rigorously citing sources and data.
Of course you should use better sources on something like a Uni paper, no shit, but nobody was talking about a Uni paper.
‘Joker Pencil Guy’ Vaush is getting really creative with these minimalist titles
This is all you retain joker guy
@@jpierremathieux4080 you dummy, the video has just been uploaded. No one has progressed far enough in the video to have retained anything, so yh he's gonna joke about the title.
I'm so pissed he keeps changing them, vaush destroys a high school econ textbook was the best title and it disappeared in an hour :^|
@@jpierremathieux4080 it’s physically impossible for him to have watched the entire video before commenting this if you watch it at 2x speed then it takes 25 minutes
@@craigstephenson7676 go on but. you are still judging someone before even knowing is argument because of a bad Faith title
can we just apreciate how classist is the selling pencils joke?
a real hero of the working class this dude
He is working-class himself more than vaush
@@jpierremathieux4080 You can be working class and act in ways that go against your own interests (simping for authoritarian regimes, for example).
@@jpierremathieux4080 yeah working class people can be classist.
@@moonlightrouge3956 not when they are on that level of classes consciousness
@@jpierremathieux4080 level 0
That laugh will live with him forever. Everyone will forget it by next week, but he’ll think back to it and it will hurt him deeply.
Good.
I want to buy him some ice cream
oh don't worry, i remember too.
I haven't forgotten it.
Tankie: * Gives long winded quote
Me: "I can actively feel my brain forgetting what you just said"
They are almost as dramatic as theatre kids
Literally this!!!
"So you disagree with marx? Cuz he was in favor of planned economies..."
That's the ultimate evidence that tankies treat theory like religious text
when he was quoting marx, it sounded like he was giving a sermon.
@@arrionarchie2120" uhm ackshully in this chapter in this paragraph you can see the good word cemented and never to be changed by bourgeoisie apologists"
I knew a kid who never read a paragraph of theory , was a soviet simp in ex soviet block , went 180 and became a nazi
@@vukstefanovic5348 the irony is that most Anarchists I've ever met have read more Marx than any Tankie I've ever met. Small sample size, but I think it reflects what I've learned from arguments I've had on the internet.
@@oddjam i read das kapital in its entirety , and im firmly in my anarkiddie positions more than before
Tankie: I need you to answer a rhetorical question
Vaush: You don't need me to answer a rhetorical question
lowkey the funniest part. holy shit
Lmao 😂 dude needs a dictionary
new sneaky debate tactic unveiled, jedi mind tricks
I dont know, does he?
@@javiernewsam8829 idk, the pencil salesmen part was crazy funny too
“I need you to answer a rhetorical question.”
“You don’t need me to answer a rhetorical question.”
Dude, the delivery of that was hilarious, I’m dying over here, Vaush is probably the funniest political commentator I follow
You can tell how seriously Vaush takes his opponent based on if he is playing games or not lol
Tankie: *Starts off debate with a quote*
Me: Wow, under 2 min in and I already want to suplex this guy
Lol try it soy
@@bossman5284 You do know you're not talking to a plant, right?
Big "push nerd in locker" vibes.
@@bossman5284 "try it soy" 🤓
@@joeyrasmussen8394 seethe harder
The deafening silence following that laughing fit actually made the skin on the back of my neck crawl in sympathy
it's called "cringing" : p
Do you think it was a genuine laughing fit? Part of the creepy Joker feel was how it was like half real/half forced, you know?
@@WillowTDog it was very much forced
It was the “….. oooooooh 😬” that got me
The Joker is now part of the Vaush cinematic universe.
_"Just while we're rounding off the lunatic bingo, do you want to call me a Jew?"_
x'D Holy shit Vaush...
I just want to see Vaush debate with an average Elon Mush fan
@@chucku00 why do you think that was a typo
"No dude, I'm going to go live with my genetically engineered cat girl wife and fend off aliens in the hyperloop tunnels with my boring company flame thrower any day now!"
@@chucku00 people who consume debate content generally by accident become needlessly aggressive don't worry about it lol (I'm not an exception)
Vaush will Lose Braincells in that debate
Haha, mush! That's perfect-I'll be using that.
It turns out that Alden's number inherently leads to slug pilling
Lol! Well done.
Haven't seen the debate yet and i love the phrase "slug pilled"
Ever heard of Jen’s constant?
@@xaviercockerton6989 Is that similiar to the Integration Constant observed by the Gargylon Group?
@@TheHeavyshadow I think so. Might also be related Poopsacke’s Theorem on Relativity
When he opened with that Marx quote it genuinely reminded me of scary evangelical folks.
Truth.
Praise Marx, for he is holy and may his spirit be eternal! Amen.
That joker laugh was definitely part of a plan to get a dunk clip but it just sounded unhinged and backfired.
I don't think it changed any opinions
@@malalalalala2985 'xactly. It sounded unhinged and backfired.
I decided to watch this live the other day instead of studying, and it was totally worth it. The debates that night were CRAZY
@@just_a_turtle_chad get a life
I mean this one is very weird. Like, vaush is going to end like karlynn Borysenko moving from Bernie to Biden.
Same I was smoking and when this happened live I knew I witnessed internet history
@@charlesmiv3842 That turtle will have more of a life than you ever will
@@thatonegregkid fake news
"I need you to answer a rhetorical question."
Definition of a rhetorical question: "a question asked in order to create a dramatic effect or to make a point rather than to get an answer."
*Facepalm*
I wish they would pull the thesaurus out BEFORE the debate
A rhetorical question literally doesn’t need an answer haha.
this kind of sentence can actually work in a context where you're asking a traditionally rhetorical question but expect an answer. would be fun to say.
Tankie: "Vaush is being rude to me in order to discredit communist ideology"
Nah, you're doing that perfectly yourself 🥰
Can we get a chat emote for when cringe of this magnitude occurs? It seems beyond the purview of OOF, I think Vaush's visible grimace at 32:45 would suffice, call it PENCILS or something.
PENCILS moment
Me 30 minutes in: This guy isn’t really crazy, he’s just a tankie
Me five minutes after that: WOW that was a drastic drop off
It always hits around the 30 min mark with Nazis and Nazbols.
I read this as he popped off that crazy joker laugh. Right about at 32:00
They are, I was judging crazy relative to the base crazy that tankies already are
@@camusreviews6877 fair enough
Starting off with a quote didn't do it for you?
He changed the name from joker pencil guy, another example of the radical 1984 left
Loool
literally communism irl
Wtf I love fascism now
@@LaurentIpsum
I’m a fascist now. Today. I had chosen Barbarism over Socialism out of fear of Barbarism.
@@Tee_34 Sounds like you need a relaxing trip to room 101 my friend
I love watching these old debates..
Like this tankie was 100% convinced by the end he was nailing this.. it's so cringe it's like that meme of the person who pisses their pants at a party and everyone is looking at them and there's a thought bubble above the pissers head "ha ha rent free" that's this dude!
When people unironically compare you to Mike from PA it's time to get some therapy
he's giving Yankee tankie "red phoenix rising" before he quits the internet and leaves for two years just to come back sobbing and go on official hiatus
I remember when veesh did debates. Good times, sadly our gladiator has hung up his helmet
State ownership is not social ownership if the state is not democratic. And so while I would agree that direct worker ownership isn't entirely necessary to describe a system as socialist, the state ownership must be by a democratic state. Which he has no argument against.
Vaush got destroyed in this debate...
... by Laurence, the First Vicar.
Truuuue.
Laurence the First Vicar prevented us from achieving market socialism.
Micolash: " Ahh Com... some say Communism... "
@@fumomofumosarum5893 "As you once did for the vacuous USSR, grant us meansss, grant us meansss"
I think the weirdest part of this debate was him throwing a rhetorical question and admitting it was just rhetoric and then becoming hysterical when he didn’t get played into.
For real 😂
Yeah, he kept wanting an answer to his rhetorical question, but to my understanding, you don't need an answer to a rhetorical question. The answer isn't the point.
@@AbonZel3 I noticed he caught himself later on, and corrected himself to say "hypothetical question" but I just love him demanding an answer to a "rhetorical question"
@@willhaddock5991 wasn’t the question just “what’s a market” so it wasn’t hypothetical or rhetorical or anything lol
@@disastermidi1990 It _was_ a rhetorical question, he just doesn't seem to understand the point of rhetorical questions.
Really that and his spazzing-out over Wikipedia were nothing more than him trying to plant the seeds of his eventual excuse for running away from Los Debato Cringo con El Yoker Tañquéro.
Coming back to this from that recent video essay, really puts into perspective the lunacy of this guy
What tankies don't seem to get is that explaining the cause of something does not make it right. We understand fully that the Soviet Union was a victim of its circumstances, and therefore could not function democratically - that does not mean that it is suddenly socialist. That is simply an explanation as to why it was NOT socialist.
Vaush is trying to make me look mad and crazy 21:43
Proceeds to Joker laugh 32:37
Vaush was acting stupid. Everyone would eventually laugh at him.
@@mr.cauliflower3536 how? Lmao people who laugh like that are coping.
@@Bellitchi Yea, totally, you're too far gone anyways.
We are opressed everywhere
@@mr.cauliflower3536 are you a butthurt tankie? The dude's laughing made him look crazy and it was his way of coping with getting owned in the debate.
"I get stage fright"
Goes on to scream like a banshee for the better part of an hour
I haven't heard any screaming yet. Vaush was oretty uncharitable here, not really letting him get more than a sentence out. Don't get me wrong, I agree with Vaush here he was just being kind of a dick.
To be honest
When i was 16 i got stage fright and i started to saying a bunch of dumb shit on big school project
(It was big project with is in poland at the end of middle school)
I REMEMBER IT SO WELL
What i was suposed to say
,,help a person by breathing to hear lungs etc...."
What i said
,,comone kiss her now like a snail stics to the wall yeah you doing well keep going....."
I just was saying whatever came to mind xd
The guy manages his stage fright by going on the offensive. There are quite a few occassions where he maneuvers himself into an awkward situation and either does the condescending laugh or tries to referee Vaush's actions in front of the audience. From an objective perspective, he would know that doing these things only makes him look worse, but in the moment he needs to so he can maintain his own feeling of success and control.
@@lamora6298 "manages" is a loose term if that was his manifestation of stage fright
@@TheFamousMockingbird yeah I mean he did fail in managing the bad effects of stage fright on his debate. I meant managing in the sense of his psychological state.
"well neither would I."
bruh you're a tankie, accepting non democratic countries is like your whole group's signature move lmao.
Wait so thats what makes people tankies? I thought vaush just calls every communist tankie
"Hitler's approval rating fell off world war 2"
I mean.
He's not wrong.
He threw too much passion into that first quote 😭
He sure sounds like some televangelist quoting the gospel XD
You can basically taste the Authoritarian Brain in this guy's rhetoric. Deep down, his worldview revolves around hierarchy, so to him the natural order is one in which knowledge is handed down by a daddy figure. He's also obviously as narcissistic as he is stupid.
Immediate signs of "okay, this guy's a loon."
Ikr?! I was like Lord help me to never have the hubris to start a debate with a like 8 paragraph quote that I then go on to ostensibly give the gist of right after anyway!
😅😅😅😅
Na he would have won the debate if he threw in just a little bit more passion.
Only true vaush fans remembers when the title is Joker Pencil Guy
LMAO!!!!!!
Fax
Is all you retain joker guy
Pathetic
LIES! FUCKING LIES MAN!
Debate. 2 is my favorite video ever
I really wish vaush would be less agro with these people and interrupt them less. I don't understand or even really know this guy's positions because vaush won't let him explain them. He basically just keeps interrupting, and patronizing him. Like, I'm all for that, and I'd probably agree, but at least let him outline what he believes first.
100% agree. This debate was awful
He can't if he lets them go they will literally never stop. These types of people just can't ever stop talking.
They will speak for the entire time, gish galloping, and the positions he did talk about were very idiotisyncratic. He thinks socialism is the state doing things, what possible positions would he further give you that convinced you he wasn't wrong?
The quote opener was honestly a tell for the whole conversation
Do you wanna know how I got these red stars?
Stand in a bread line for 10 hours?
LMAOOOO 💀💀💀
Five hundred minutes in he's still reading that quote and im screaming make it stop please oh god
Five hundred minutes? Got damn that’s like eight hours.
I literally stopped at a minute and 58 and was like .... this is the least concise quote I have ever seen in my life. Did you just want to read???
@@Phil.Anthropy It didn't even illistrait a point.
Also, starting off with a quote... It seems most people would know that's just bad form. I love quotes, but not at the start. Quotes work fine on their own, and only brief quotes work to define or start off an argument.
@@LordSpongy lots of "high schooler writing their first essay" vibes.
@@calebchometa1382 definitely. Especially with how he gets angry whenever Vaush challenges a point. Its like a kid forced to go off their script.
My fave part is the “OH THIS IS YOUR MOVEMENT? I THOUGHT IT WAS OUR MOVEMENT VAWSH???”
when he laughed my jaw literally dropped to the floor - like wtffff was that lmao
That was Light Yagami shit.
For some reason, nobody put time staps for the joker laughs:
32:38
34:04
Thank you
yooooooooooooooooooooo
vaush’s face during the first one fucking killed me
@@Axel-iy4xs it's fucking gold
The real hero
My hs teachers: WIKIPEDIA IS UNRELIABLE.
My first math professor in college: actually Wikipedia is pretty good lmao just don’t cite it
Here's a sneaky trick: Wikipedia has sources, for most of it's pages, just cut out the middle man, and cite Wikipedia's sources.
@@belgebelgravia100 It's always good to hunt down the original citation too for context. Getting some background info on the source itself to see if it's worth anything is also invaluable. Stopped me from citing unreviewed papers or ones released by disreputable publishers on more than one occasion
Yeah maybe for math lmao. I’m a history major and if I tried to cite Wikipedia I’d get laughed out of the room.
@@jacobbeachley6955 yeah I think the point is that you don’t cite Wikipedia but it’s not the information there is always bad or something. For surface level content it’s fine (like if you need something for a math problem or if you want a quick synopsis of an event), obviously if you want to look deeper and do anything rigorously you have to be much more careful than that
@@beatleplayer1011 it’s not always bad, but communist subjects are much more likely to be misrepresented or outright fabricated than others. I see zero possible way that Stalin attempted to join the Axis powers. As the guy in the vid said, Nazi Germany is literally the reason the USSR industrialized so fast, Stalin wrote a ton of shit about fascism and Hitler, Hitler literally talked about invading the USSR in Mein Kampf to liberate them from “Jewish Bolshevism.” They were completely ideologically opposed. I see absolutely no chance that that happened as it was represented by Wikipedia and Vaush.
You're just trying me look crazy HAHHHehehehEEHAAAAAAHAHAHAH heehehehehehehehehe HAH
"I'm from the working class, you have soft hands." That's just plain style over substance.
Lol I bet he has soft hands too
Gatekeeping the working class is one of the highest of praxis.
If you haven't worked in a steel mill for ten years, you're basically bourgeois.
Yeah us electricians are pretty bougie 😂
BORRRRRGUA **
I'm referencing 35:20 btw.
As soon as a person starts using the term "petty bourgeoise" I'm done with them. (In modern debate.) The communists and socialists of the 1900s weren't using hundred year old terminology to impress the rubes. They used words that meant something to the people of THEIR time, because they actually wanted to inform, motivate, and persuade. Nobody relates to such terms in 2021. We don't sort ourselves in the same way they did. We don't use the same language. Using modern terms for the groups we actually recognize today, actually informs, persuades, and motivates. If you want to win the debate, don't quote Marx or Ingles, tell us what works, how. Use YOUR words, the words we today relate to. Otherwise, I assume you don't actually understand the shit you're just regurgitating, let alone understand ME, and the world we live in. Forgive the little rant. This is just a personal pet peeve. Not aimed at you. Your comment just gave me a jumping off point.
@@SplotPublishing Though I recognize the effort that went into your rant, I cannot help but react with a very basic response that is inadequate but expresses my gratitude accurately:
*based*
"You don't even know what I'm in favor of, bruh, you haven't even asked me." -- I died
"'You don't know the things I dream. No one does, no one ever cared enough to find out." - Perturabo, primarch of the Iron Warriors
Reminds me of the Count Dankula debate: “Why don’t you just ask me if I’m a racist”
Vaush needs to let people finish talking, he knows what he's gonna say, but the people watching might not. If he lets them show their weird ideas more, the responses would seem way more appropriate
I am not aware of what you seem to think he was going to say, could you tell me what it is?
And why didn't Vaush respond to what a market is?
Like i am his fan but this debate felt really disingenuous
@@anyoneatall3488 I felt like he would go on to defend a lot of bad things in the soviet union as "just a consequence of the material conditions" like the lack of democracy, which he started to talk about but vaush interrupted (I think vaush does lack some knowledge on Soviet 'democracy', cause it worked different than here (much more controlled by the party but it was there in some way)) I felt like vaush just let him talk for 10 minutes and then just started verbally punching into him.
@@Speederzzz what do you think is worse modern day america or ussr
@@anyoneatall3488 in what context? Also, it's a bit unfair comparing usa today with ussr back then seeing how we have more tools with which we can do damage. The ussr couldn't create fake Internet profiles to undermine other states with misinfo
@@anyoneatall3488 ???
It's called pivoting, you dolt.
Since the tankie knew he was being backed into a corner, unable to defend/argue the USSR, he switched to definition trolling.
Of course, Vaush knows what a market is; he's an anarcho-syndicalist, which rely on a market economy for indulgences.
It's akin to asking a biologist what a cell is,
We both know that I know what a cell is.
You're just trying to avoid the topic.
just saw a video essay saying fellow traveler moved them over in this debate to the 'real left'. Gonna walk directly into the ocean now
This was so funny live, I actually recoiled IRL when this guy did the joker laugh, that shit hurt my soul
I knew it was coming and it still physically hurt
I knew it was coming but I had no idea it would be THIS BAD OMG MAKE IT STOP I CAN'T HANDLE IT
All it takes is a little gravity
@@vanmello1680 The best part is the moment of silence when he stops and before Vaush starts talking LMAOOO
I feel like people who do that are autistic and don't realize that their laugh and larpy persona just comes off as cringey asf
i'm da jokah baybee
@@fruitygarlic3601 Less goooo
@@fruitygarlic3601 less goo
@@fruitygarlic3601 Less gooooo!
Are there any... J O K E R S in the audience
We live in LETS GOOOOOOOOO
“Why do you insist on making me angry, he yells”
5 mins later
“I’m not angry”
Guys look it’s Soviet revisionism
The chad Vaush, versus the virgin joker.
He doesn't look like a chad tho.
"The Stalin administration was only part of the USSRs history" bruh the Stalin administration lasted for ~40% of the entire USSR's history, and was by far the longest lasting head of the USSR.
all aside
ok? so?
Im a lib soc-libmarxist, yet just what about that my man?
its not a point
"Im a lib soc-libmarxist" no, you are 14
@@croissant4131 The previous and next soviet rulers were all dictators too minus the creepy cult of personality. But this argument implies only Stalin was the bad guy.
"I need you to answer a rhetorical question"
Yk what as somebody who has been a Vaush fan since before he even had 100 subs, lately it’s felt like he’s been super bad faith. He constantly throws in little snipes even when the conversation isn’t heated yet. He at times refuses to engage with other peoples points. He has no problem cutting people off while complaining when others do it to him (in fairness lots of debaters have this issue). He makes Nazi comparisons way too much. Because even if he isn’t calling anybody a Nazi there is a reason he chooses that comparison so much. Idk he’s just been kinda mad lately. I hope he can chill out a bit and try to act in better faith.
"He makes Nazi comparisons way too much." he makes those comparisons because they use similar tactics
@@JoeDirtisawsome I understand that but it’s not appropriate to compare somebody to a fucking Nazi when up until that point the discourse had been civil. As much as he wants to say he’s not calling them Nazis he is still comparing them to Nazis because he wants to make them look bad. He could use less contentious examples to make his analogies but he chooses to paint his opponent in the worst light possible. He doesn’t want a discussion he wants a fight. And not everybody is coming in trying to do that and it’s frustrating that he will be an absolute asshole to a person and get called out and hide behind “woah bro I didn’t realize you did liberal civility politics.”
@@D1rtyD3bra people who defend authoritarian states do not deserve civility politics.
I agree, I think comparisons to Nazis should only be made later in a debate after the audience has gotten a chance to see the comparisons for themselves without anyone pointing it out
100% agree. Go watch the debate on the other dude channel. And you will see how Vaush came very pushy. From the first minute he kept comparing the dude with a nazi and saying "oh you mad right? Mad tankie right? Oh you maaaad" while if you watch the camera of the other dude you see he's normal, and he was just trying to debate and have a disagreement. He kept pushing the dude for like half of an hour until he snapped and then he got his "win" calling him "joker deranged"... Awful. Some of the points of the dude were interesting to engage but Vaush didn't do that at all.
If this keeps going like this, I don't want to see a Hakim debate...
i fucking hate tankies as well, but damn, vaush has been acting really bad faith in the last couple of debates. CONSTANTLY cutting people off, insulting them (which i can understand why, but sometimes he does go very overboard, very early), and when the other person starts interrupting them (and understandably so, because vaush has been doing it even more), vaush just acts completely bad faith, calls them angry and stupid sutff, never letting them finish a point.
I hope this doesnt contiunue, its getting really bad, and i hope its only because hes tired or something
Tankies deserve no courtesy.
@@jontraz5993 sure, that's an argument, I'm not sure if I agree, but vaush always whines about optics, and my point comes from optics as well, they have been terrible
Yeah i agree. Like this guy is a lunatic and isn't gonna shift, don't we want to like...pull those who can be pulled? This isn't gonna convince people who have tankie ideas but aren't that invested in it.
Maybe the last 20 minutes but it was hard to get that far. At least let them show how deranged they are BEFORE you do this.
And if they don't go psycho just attack their ideas, god knows there's plenty to hit there
do you really think that this batshit dude comes off better optics than vaush?????? this dude literally joker laughed, that is the worst optics.
@@robilotte11 with bad faith actors, idgaf about optics. Destroy, onto the next.
God, man. The problem with stream debates is that people who actually possess self awareness are too timid to call in. Vaush always has to go black hat because the callers always come in trying to pick a fight but with no clue what their own ideology is
Best example of that recently where the recent race realism debates. Within five minutes both where down to saying race realism in their view is just accepting that "race" is a socioeconomically valid category. The one guy even went so far as to redefine evolution so that socioeconomic changes over 80 years are enough to change inherent differences between "races", amazing.
@Nick Fanchette Vaush's content has a good place and need to draw young people who are not interested yet or willing to go into deep dives with complex. I like to think of him as a last chance safety net for sad kids going down a dark path.
But for the hey people agree about this, let's talk details, history and how we can get there, Sam Seder at the Majority Report has the best in depth interviews with well thought out positions by academics and some politicians.
@@pindakaas42 truly amazin
16:01 this wasn't a good faith debate from the get go
Tankie: 'and you know they used the Ural Sea to irrigate their export crops and ran a pipe to save it from draining'
*Looks at Ural Sea over time*
'looks like that didn't work'
Yeah I don't understand why he brought up on of the biggest ecological disasters in history as a point for the Soviet Union.
Also his essential point was that the State spend extra money on people that didn't turn out a profit. I mean what is the Postal Service in the US if not that.
@@UncreativeShadi "I mean what is the Postal Service in the US if not that." Was thinking about that earlier today.. would like to know how much tax revenue the commerce and employees return that the post office doesn't make on it's own. Not sure how to find that out, but it wouldn't surprise me that it's operation costs are covered by the rest.
You mean the Aral Sea? The Urals are the massive mountain range that cuts off European Russia from Siberia.
They never actually even ran the pipe from the Caspian to the Aral because it was massively unpopular to do so.
@@belgebelgravia100 Me living near the Aral Sea: "wtf are they taking about, is there another ecological disaster covered up by the Soviets?"
Now that I know Mister Joker Laugh was absolutely 🍻 L I T 🍻, I can’t un-hear it
last few debates Vaush is really bad faith and avoiding answers
He's been debating absolute soup brains, so I imagine he's a little tired of it.
Don't worry, the audience will justify that because "joker brain laugh" or whatever. This was the most bad faith debate I've seen on this channel.
@@e.d.r1546 to be fair the guy was a brainlet that was citing clear russian propaganda like i applause him for not that going even harder especially when the larper said “soviets won ww2 for us and saved the world from fascism” like u got to be incredibly delusional to think this or just really are acting in bad faith
@@e.d.r1546 I'd love it if someone came on that was able to convey these points in a way that didn't make them sound insane. Also someone who doesn't crumble after afew minutes of talking to vaush. This guy that came on is a terrible proponent for his worldview.
My favorite part is vaush saying
“all it takes is a little gravity”
And the guy stammers
“All-... no, really-...” as he comes to the realization that he kinda just had his own little joker moment, this is literal gold
Timestamp?
He's misquoting.
"All it needs is a little.... PUSH...."
I love when someone doesn't know how to respond so they just start pop quizzing you on random terms and thinking it wins them the debate
Tbf, there was zero charity on both sides in this debate.
@@xXRickTrolledXx Tankies deserve no charity
WHAT’S A TIF?!?
@@1997lordofdoom I'm inclined to agree, but debate ethics still stand.
@@noobslayeru He does know what a market is. He just wasn’t dignifying the tankie’s bad-faith question with a response.
All I can think about is the future when this guy eventually grows out of this phase and just how embarrassing this will be for him to remember 😳
Maybe he’ll come back on and they can laugh about it on stream when he’s more chill
He’s twenty six years old, and trying to sound like the joker. That’s embarrassing.
If a guy is playing bloodborne while mentally destroying you in a debate you should just take the L
Vaush needs to open up a new category of speedrun “Bloodborne Any% While Debating” lmao
It’s crazy that Vaush owned a fascist AND became the first person to beat Bloodborne in the same night
"Mike from PA but worse"
Impressive
Vaush should have brought up Sewer Socialism.
@@stoneman472 WHAT'S A TIF!?!?!?
Unironically I was malding this debate. I get so mad when people get so smug RIP
Edit: Vaush got destroyed by Laurence, the First Vicar, in this debate.
Who’s Laurence?
@BlueTyphoon2017 the boss he's fighting in the background footage
I highly encourage Vaush to do a research stream on Planned Economies. As a person that is studying political science, I think I can say with some confidence that Vaush has said in the past really misinformed things about planned economies. Every economic model has its pros and cons, including planned economies. I especially encourage Vaush to give some thought into decentrally planned economies, because the data on them so far are promising. But nice work owning that tankie, love to see it-- they remind me of conservative/liberal types that uncritically cheer on America whenever it does something questionable.
As a Economics major planned economies are trash
@@haydenross5851 I have a background in Economics, and I don't get that impression. I honestly feel a lot of economics departments in North America are overly-dismissive of planned economies which is a different story in Europe. The main thing planned economies aren't as good at is producing more wealth. Market economies are better at it, but planned economies are more stable than market economies. Like I said, pros and cons.
he doesnt seem to distinguish central planning from decentral
This amazed me (in a negative way)
@@haydenross5851 capitalist economics major where the only mention of so islism is;
"when he state takes you shit"
@@lotter4390 pros capitalists get to laugh at you cons you starve
I would actually really like a whole research stream on why planned economies don't work. I've always been told they don't work because they're too complicated, so I'd really like to see a more detailed breakdown on why and how they fail.
I don't think it's because it's too complicated, but because you're attempting to predict human behaviour to a high degree of accuracy. It's like designer fashion- their collections show on the runway months before they hit markets, so the designers are trying to predict and influence what people might like in the future rather than responding to an existing demand like H&M and Primark do. This bit high fashion in the ass in a huge way last year, since nobody wanted to wear tight pencil skirts and heels during a pandemic.
@@j.c.jeggis1818 Yeah, it's a) the human element and b) the rigidity of the plan. It's possible a planned economy could do significantly better *if* it had a built in mechanism that allowed it to adjust to changing conditions quickly. But so far, no one has come up with a good way to do that, except by creating combined economic systems, which is frankly a pretty good solution. WHY waste time trying to perfect a particular theoretical model, when you better results by just using a combined approach and adjusting how controlled/free it is based on those conditions and the will of the people?
I think the other guy had a bit of a point about using cybernetics, it's just that he engaged in too much apologia for the Soviet Union. Like yeah the Soviet Union had an inefficient planned economy and they were trying to use cybernetics to reform it via OGAS, but the central agencies and planning bodies never fostered a collaborative research environment to make this project happen. They were too busy trying to keep their own power afloat and never wanted to give resources to the other agencies. That being said, I think there's a persuasive argument to be had with implementing cybernetics in a market socialist economy especially using the power of the internet.
@@SplotPublishing What do you think about the potential for cybernetics for helping "adjust" the plan? Heck the internet could be used for central planning between theoretical worker federations within a capitalist context.
@@SplotPublishing Also a problem was corruption, atleast in the GDR, which made the economy even more unpredictable. People were rewarded for how close they got to their quota, and there were several ways in which people exploited that.
One trick was to hide a part of the stuff one produces and to add it to a later shipment to artificially pump up one's productivity.
A trick often used in combination with the first one was lying to the planners when they came to inspect one's factory to keep one's quota low so that there was surplus to hide in the first place. "Oh, yeah, we usually have 12 machines here for making shoes, but machine number 7 isn't working right now, we're waiting for spare parts to fix up number 10, and number 4 is running on half capacity because there have been some strange noises and we're still waiting for the technician to have a look at it."
Then, once the planners were gone, all 12 machines were up and running at full capacity.
At first that doesn't sound like a problem untill one considers that a higher productivity in processing factories means a need for more ressources, which in turn might be missing in another place, e.g. cloth now used for more shoes could've been used for more clothing. Or the state might have opened up another factory that was meant to supplement the production of what ever factory 1 could have produced on its own, again leading to overproduction, possibly at the expense of missing ressources in other places.
When Chomsky said Leninism and state capitalism set back the cause of socialism by 100 years, this is what he was talking about. Literarily every country it has been tried in, with the possible exception of Vietnam and Cuba, is now MORE CAPITALIST than it was a hundred years ago. Why on earth would we adopt authoritarianism just to become more capitalist???
Third World nations (where socialist revolutions mostly happen) are completely dependent on foreign investment to function and to even extract their own resources. So if you try to do co-op socialism foreign companies will just leave crashing your economy. (why would they share profits and property with workers?)
You need a phase of state capitalism to develop a national industry that makes you independent enough of foreign investment. Then you can expropiate your industry and do what you want.
But trying to make foreign companies into co-ops isn't realistic. And if you do that you would be "embargoed" to oblivion.
Chomsky is right on principle but not right on practice.
Well Chomsky isn't really a Marxist/Communist, he's an Anarcho-syndicalism. The Soviet Union was State Capitalist during the NEP under Lenin, but it became socialist when Stalin came to power and abolished the NEP.
People seem to forget that authoritarianism often goes hand in hand with capitalism because capitalism is authoritarian. What better way to control the populace than an economic system designed to suppress them and extract their labor? This is one reason why nearly every hyper-authoritarian "socialist" regime has either crashed and burned, or turned into a state capitalist proto-fascist hellhole.
@@user-jy3ck5dg2n no
The thing about vaush saying this person saying “bourgeois propaganda” is the same as the Nazis saying “Jewish propaganda” is that everyone says this there’s “corporate propaganda” “liberal propaganda” “ultra left propaganda”. Like stoping saying it’s the same as Nazis. Im not the least bit into the ussr but vaush is really off saying that.
As someone who has beaten Bloodborne: The Old Hunters before, I have to say... Vaush is a massive chad for daring to take on Laurence while multitasking.
I don't play Bloodborne, but isn't he also intentionally making the fights harder by refusing to use his pistol?
@@jessicaslater4243 You only really use the pistol if you can parry the enemy. AFAIK, you can't parry Laurence, and the two-handed version of the Whirligig has a modifier that does more damage against beasts (which Laurence is), so it's better to go in two-handing.
Sorry for the long-winded answer lmao, Bloodborne is one of my favorite games ever.
the fact that this guy literally turned to "you interrupted me so LALALALALALALALA"
He just kept interrupting Vaush all the time, and when Vaush started talking, he started talking over him a second later and immediately went "WOAAAAH VAUSH STOP INTERRUPTING ME!"
Honestly, I've never heard that many interruptions in a Vaush debate solely from the person Vaush is debating with.
Chad interjection vs virgin childish breakdown
I've noticed a lot of these extreme-left/-right meatheads do that.
But Vaush was interrupting him first. It would test your patience as well.
I do think Vaush interrupted him to much, and his constant historical (usually Nazi) comparisons were obviously bad faith and oversimplified most of the time.
Still, I didn't expect that this would reveal the tankie's true Joker identity though. Always surprised how many people Joker will disguise himself as
How it sounded when the Tankie asked Vaush what a market is:
Tankie: Knock knock
Vaush: Who's there?
Tankie: Market
Vaush: Market who?
Tankie: HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW WHAT A MARKET IS! YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING! KEEP ENJOYING THE GRIFT!
They are so disengenious it pisses me off. They will ask very benign questions rather than just making their argument.
Vaush: *Rebuttle*
Tankie: "Can you define X?"
Vaush: Defines X
Tankie: No X is defined as....
It's just a very disengenous thing to do. Conservatives and generally people who know they don't argument try to do. It's posturing and it makes you come off as a jackass. Just say your argument rather than posture over a word for another 5 minutes. It makes debates go so much faster when you do.
@@lofiyobachi7495 wow vaush n his fans coping with him not knowing what a market is
@@Fr33Kingdom "IM NOT MAD YOU ARE" 🥺
Look dude, I could actually go in deft and pick apart your contentions, but you've outed yourself as a bad faith actor so I won't bother.
P.s. don't comment on every video on a creator you obviously don't like. It makes you look obsessed.
@@Fr33Kingdom incorrect. He was asked to answer a rhetorical question. Rhetorical answers are, by definition, not supposed to be answered.
So when Vaush answered "I don't know. What's a market?", He did the equivalent of responding "market who" in a knock knock joke.
That said, even if we assume that Vaush genuinely didn't know what a market is, that STILL doesn't invalidate his knowledge or his argument. By declaring victory on this, the Tankie exposes their ineptitude as an interlocutor.
The Tankie demonstrated fundamental understanding of **concepts**, which speak to flaws in an argument. Understanding concepts is more important than knowing the definition of a given term.
It is possible to understand a **concept*", even if you don't know what a specific **term** means. (An example of this is Joni Mitchell, who was a musical genius, but didn't have a formal training in music, so didn't know the official terms for any musical concepts)
@@SM-BSW he said it was rhetorical AFTER vaush refused to answer.
Whats a market?
Vaush: :o
And this whole argument vaush just talked to him as if he was dumb, so his audience wouldn't notice vaush jumping from topic to topic before he gets owned.
Fellow traveler: co-ops competing in a market would have a boom bust cycle
Vaush: so do planned economies
FT: no they don't
Vaush: :o
8 more years to go until the Pencil arc.
I like Vaush but damn it could be really great debate if he didn't turn it into bloodsport. I get why he wanted to destroy Mel, she's bad faith af, but this guy? I'm not a tankie btw. quite the opposite.
Damn, what an great episode of Attack on Tankie!
I understand this reference... GG!
32:37 to skip to the joker laugh. Holy shit 😂😂
I was looking for this comment thanks
Thanks mr chuchesta
“YoU dOnT eVeN kNoW wHaT mArKeTs Or CoMmOdItIeS aRe!”
I generally agree with Vaush's POV, but I must say that his _constant_ interjections didn't help him at all.
I agree. I dislike tankies a lot but if you're debating them you gotta let them talk and lay out their points. It's easier to show where they're wrong and crazy that way. In this case, I don't even know what the topic was because they talked about seemingly random issues for a bit and then dropped them to jump to something else.
@@Fragenzeichenplatte He has reaffirmed my belief that handing money over to internet personalities (or any celebrity, really) is a foolish idea.
@Oligoden Do you mean that they'll talk and talk when it is convenient, but when it comes time to _actually_ make hay...they'll back off?
@Oligoden uhhh, you mean like the canvassing plans vaush has been working on for months? that kind of hay? or do you mean the time he raised money for a charity in palestine?
what do you define as "hay" in this case?
@Oligoden I do not blame you in the slightest for feeling that way.
Anytime anyone brings up the Soviet Union, Vaush should just bring up the 1917 Constituent Assembly elections held after the October Revolution, which the Bolsheviks narrowly lost. The winners were the Socialist Revolutionary Party led by Victor Chernov, a former Menshevik and avowed Democratic Socialist. Despite the fact that Socialist parties won over 90% of the seats in the Assembly, whose task was to approve a new provisional government and draft a permanent constitution for the Soviet Union, the Bolsheviks under Lenin stormed the Assembly, arrested it’s members and dissolved the body for good. Note that these were the first free and fair elections held in Russian history, under universal suffrage and proportional representation where socialist parties overwhelmingly dominated the chamber. Lenin and the Bolsheviks would’ve most likely been excluded from any socialist government because they were widely considered to be lunatics, however, there was a chance for Russia to have been a democratic and socialist society. But the Bolsheviks broke their promise and the rest is history.
The SRP were agarian socialists. So it was not really a surprise they won. Russia was a primarily rural county at the time. Yes the Bolsheviks were incredibly unpopular, taking LAST place in the general elections. But of course it was Lenin's way or the highway.
However I would argue that this event was inevitable. Violent revolutions tent to allow the scum to rise to the top. There are exceptions (sush as the USA and the Irish Republic), but they seem to be the exceptions that prove the rule. The winners of civil wars tend to be those who are willing to go the furthest, abandoning all scruples along the way if it suits them.
@@dwi2921 The winners of the American Revolution were bourgeoisie slave owners. I agree the Bolsheviks were the worst of the Russian Left but don’t revise history.
@@samdoesvids1339
Oh I won't say the Founders were the good guys. I simply ment that while the US has certainly had it ups and downs (and the outright evil of slavery), it didn't devolve it too a complete nightmare (for white people anyway). Granted that is damning with faint praise I suppose.
2 minutes in and this quote reading makes me want to die already.
The way he reads the quote sounds like the awkward Satanist video
@@philipphuf8489 literally felt like i was watching someone larping on tlc
I have a policy to suplex anyone who talks like that in front of me.
"quote make brain hurt 😞"
@@Divine_Dreamer_vaporwave It does on an on, and the point gets lost.
i didn’t realize this guy was even a “leftist” until 1/4 through the video, legit just sounded like your typical alt righter
Because tankies are like nazis, they defend the same kind of totalitarian state and mass murder, they just exchange Jews for bourgeois/enemies of the state.
"Look, they NEEDED to do what they did to improve the world, and they did great didnt they, they built roads, they gave money to arts and science, they gave people a common purpose, its just that everyone united against them and wanted to destroy them for NO REASON"
@@Andrius971 Question. Why do you think America and all its allies wanted to destroy the Soviet Union, and all the other socialist movements that have existed across the world and history?
@@Yet.Another.Rapper.KiG.V2 Why do you think America and its allies wanted to destroy Nazi Germany and any of its supporting nazi/fascist movements?
What's his name?
It's fascinating. You can always tell exactly the moment where Vaush internally goes: "Ok, this is stupid, let's play hard"
This guy snapped like the pencils vaush will be selling 😔👊