Ocarina of Time - A Link to the Past, But in 3D... And Worse
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- Опубликовано: 2 дек 2024
- Knew this was going to be a long one. And this is after I cut out a lot of stuff. Not really surprising I'd have so much to say about this game. It's Ocarina of Time after all.
And I certainly wasn't expecting to come out of this game with such a negative opinion of it. But here we are. This is why I like revisiting things I enjoyed as a child to see if they were actually good, or if I was just a dumb kid that didn't know any better. In this case, still a good game. But it's not the game I thought it was.
Here's some extra bits I decided to leave out of the video.
Navi being annoying is something that has never made sense to me. You can easily ignore her and she shuts up after that. Are people just that bothered by her notifications that they have to answer them? Whenever she has something to say, I just don't hit the button and there's no problems.
You may have noticed I wear the Goron tunic for most of the game. There's no reason not to. The Zora tunic doesn't do much. In fact, you don't even need it for the Water Temple. Meanwhile the Goron tunic not only protects from fire areas, it reduces fire damage and for some reason makes you immune to spikes. No idea why it does that, but it does.
I find it weird that you can get the Biggoron Sword immediately upon becoming an adult. You hardly have to even use the Master Sword if you want. And while there is the tradeoff of not being able to block with it, that really doesn't matter because the combat is bad.
You can support me here if you want. ko-fi.com/pari...
![Unreal Engine 5 [5.03] Zelda Ocarina Of Time / Temple Of Time [Update]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dkP66qSY8II/mqdefault.jpg)
I am aware Ship of Harkinian allows you to interpolate the framerate to whatever. But interpolation is just visual. The game is still running at 20 fps, so it does nothing to improve responsiveness, which is what I really care about. The other improvements there are great, but a higher real framerate is more important to me.
Actually they had to explain it to me when I said the same thing, it isn't just smoothing the frames over, it's doing it in real time to the vertices or something.
they recently added texture suport you should try to play it and use the oot reloaded textures looks beatiful
Even with this, to me after playing through both versions (first time playing btw) Ship of Harkinian still felt better and more smooth.
This game is really bad when telling u where to go I swesr mostró of this game is not actually solving the puzzle but finding wtf the puzzle even is
how dare you skip the cdi games
Yeah What an crime, Pariah plans to talk about a LOT of Sonic stuff. Like the Cartoons, Comics, Mangas, Anime etc. And yet even though he likes Zelda a lot more, he refuses to talk about the obscure Zelda stuff.
Excuse me Paraiah.
Would've been a fun April Fools video
Casual Zelda noob. Can’t take this Pariah guy seriously. He also skipped the Zelda game and watch games. 🤮
Gee, that sure is BOOOORING
15:38 so I gotta disagree there. It absolutely explores it’s own theme of growing up and moving forward in life. Liam Triforce does a great video on this in his retrospective, focusing on how Sheik speaks to the player. Right off the bat “
The flow of time is always cruel.
Its speeds seems different for each person, but no one can change it.
A thing that doesn't change with time is a memory of younger days”
It's kind of funny how people think of Ocarina of Time as this ultimate masterpiece, but in actuality...well, it's good.
But I would argue that there are many more games which are MUCH more deserving of the title ,,ultimate masterpiece."
Personally, I don't think something like that actually exists (except for Steins Gate), but Ocarina of Time? Well, this is not really it...yet.
I have to say, my feelings towards Ocarina of Time are just simply put...it's fun & that's it. There is nothing really complicated about it in my opinion.
I do enjoy it, but I think it's in the lower tier of 3D Zelda games. Not the lowest though!
But that's why I am way more excited to hear your opinion about, for example...Wind Waker.
There is SO much more to talk about with a game like Wind Waker, Skyward Sword or even the second N64 Zelda...Majoras Mask.
This video right here is pretty good, because that's just how your content usually is: Really good.
But I think discussing such a basic game as Ocarina of Time in 2023 while also trying to find something new to talk about...well, that's quite tough indeed.
But this is just the beginning and the games will get a lot more interesting to talk about from here on out. Especially in comparison to Ocarina of Time.
Steins;Gate do definitely be a masterpiece. Still haven't checked out 0 yet.
Just one little point that I want to make is that they probably don't have any leftover design documents for a light temple, because just like the cut dungeons in Wind Waker, the concepts were used in later games already
Light Temple was done in Twilight Princess, but what happened to the cut dungeons in Wind Waker?
@HRIgnominious S I would say lakebed replaces jabuns dungeon
@@HRIgnomious It's not one to one, just the concepts were used across later games
I think the only "leftover" we have of Light Temple is the room in Ganon's Castle,in my opinion since it's would be the "first adult Dungeon" it would be a more pvp based dungeon like the room in Ganon's Castle
Ship of Harkinian, the PC port can run in any framerate at all, I believe it goes up as high as around 300. It's still 20fps under the hood because it relies on interpolation to increase it, but that just means the game logic is still at 20. Visually; it's absolutely at 60 or whatever other framerate you set.
I'd say Ship of Harkinian is the better version of the game. It's worse visually, but it does absolutely everything else better. 3D is still an excellent remaster for what it is, and I do miss those visuals when I play Ship of Harkinian, but those other enhancements are too good.
60 FPS OOT gives me a migraine.
I prefer the original's graphics because the brightness and color contrast required to work with the 3D gimmick really changed the atmosphere in some places, one notable comparison being the showdown with Ganondorf at the end of the game
Also I mean, the N64 aesthetic really does just have its own appeal, quality be damned
Forest temple also lost the haunting atmosphere in the 3ds.
the lightning briefly revealing ganon was so sick
2:12 Fyi, Ship of Harkinian (the PC/console port of the decompilation) has an option to visually interpolate the framerate to whatever you want, even higher than 3D's 30. The original game always polled the controller at 60 fps afaik so even I as a fellow framerate snob can't really tell that the game is internally working at 20, plus it's got tons of other optional gameplay enhancements and features which you might be interested in checking out (stuff like a controllable camera on the right analog stick, items in the world using their 3D models, repositional and recolorable HUD and tunics, censorship restorations, faster text, etc).
Also, Citra supports HD textures and there's some really nice enhancements for OoT 3D that you can check out like higher res hud, improved Link models, and faithful higher res environment textures. There's even a native 60 fps hack which I haven't tried, but looks great in footage. Now's such a good time to play Ocarina of Time, there's so many ways to enhance it thanks to the community. Of course, Nintendo themselves would rather you pay a subscription for "just good enough" emulation.
Ocarina of Time was so ahead of its time it was already factoring in accessibility by having ramps instead of stairs almost 30 years before gamers would cry for accessibility in games. Its literally the GOAT game
I got into Legend of Zelda last year so seeing this video is really made my day. Great video! :)
The only reason I could think of the N64 version having an advantage over the 3DS version is that it's probably the easiest to emulate on a low end pc.
And there are some romhacks, like the missing link, if you're ito that
I think the consensus is that ocarina of time 3d has everything the original had but better. It only lacks two really small details:
-the original low poly "charm" (which only someone who played on an emulator like me would even care about)
-the lights in the final fight were darker on N64, making Ganon look more intimidating
Now Majora's mask on the other hand...
MM3D is perfectly fine, so many people fucking nitpick the hell out of it to complain for the sake of complaining.
this was a great video Pariah, can't wait to hear your thoughts on Majora's Mask
Your ability to find the complexities in simple systems is really impressive. Like, turning OOT combat into a game of twitch reflexes and prediction? Who else does that!
Games will never be truly respected as art because they’re the one medium that mostly attracts the kind of heavily mechanically minded people who easily can make claims that a remake can invalidate an original work. It’s essentially an object to them that’s made disposable the second it doesn’t live up to an ever changing standard.
That's- That's literally true for all forms of art tho. I have seen so many artists redo their prior drawings, if not entire paintings. Mostly hobby-artists, but the idea still applies. The bigger reason why animation does not often get replaced is because it is very time, effort and cost-intensive, but it happened before. Voicework can also be considered art and is often redone.
If anything, Videogames are the least volatile in this regard because people are quick to discard prior versions of everything else, but videogame remakes both need to be damn near 1:1 and somehow still be definitive to be considered proper replacements.
Let’s go, talk about a good day to stay home from work. Love your stuff man keep it up!!
Everyone talks about Majora's Mask when it comes to atmosphere, but OOT is super great in its own right. I'd even argue that it's better, it's just that MM's is much more unique. Everything is just so well executed even to this day and feels like a very memorable coming of age story.
By the way, I played every version and I must say that Ship of Harkinian is the best one. The only drawback is not having the 3DS textures but I personally don't mind. I also tried it at 30fps with a DS4 and had zero issues with latency, and it even has gyro support.
I actually think the Deku Nut is the most useful item in combat, I always use it to freeze Stalfos when they drop their guard so I can always do a Jump Attack, you can use it to freeze instantly those fire skull enemies, it can insta-kill all of those Gohma eggs and bubbles in Jabu Jabu at once, you can even use in Ganon easily lol
I think it's quite a misunderstood item that most people don't actually try to use as the game never requires at any point.
hell yeah, nuts for life. so useful for annoying keese as well.
This was my first and favorite Zelda game back when I was a kid, it was what got me intrigued in the franchise. Did you know that even the Zelda series also suffers English Localization issues as well much like with Sonic The Hedgehog Series?
the only example I know are the log entries in BOTW being in First Person in the japanese version, but in the US they made it generic info-box shit. then again that was around the time Nintendo had really terrible and cringe people localizing their games.
50:15 there's a "theory" that says a link to the past works better as a sequel to four sword adventure than to ocarina of time. I don't know how accurate that statement is, since I've never played FSA myself
I like OOT, but this has to be the most overrated game of all time. Not a bad game and not any where close, but is it really the greatest game ever made? People complain about the water temple, Navi, the trading side quest, hyrule field and personally I’m not a huge fan of the child part of the game. I don’t know it makes no sense to me why people give this a 10/10 with these peoples (even if they aren’t that big of a problem). Personally, I think this is a pretty good Zelda game but TP and MM are better (though MM dungeons are worse than oot). (Also I’m not saying that you are complaining about those points, I just mean the general consensus).
Even though this is one of my favorite games ever, I can understand the idea that it's overrated. But a lot of that is because I don't think you can say any game is the greatest ever. Every game has flaws and there's so many different types of games that you just can't pin it all down to one game. In OoT's case, I think it comes mostly from historical value. It undoubtedly is one of the most influential games ever, with every 3D game since taking inspiration from it. You can maybe say it's one of the greatest in that sense.
I understand what you are saying. I definetly agree that there are no perfect games because you could always find flaws even if they are extremely small. But yeah I think this game being the first 3D Zelda and probably an incredible mind blowing game when it first released (I’m a teen so I can’t truly know) and just being a really good game. I guess I may have meant that with the few flaws this game has that having it be 100/100 is unrealistic. Still an incredible game though.
Yeah, I guess my point was that a lot of people who say it's one of the greatest games ever are looking at it from an historical lens/its influence on the industry, even if there's probably better games made since then. It's kind of like how the original Star Wars is revered for paving the way for the modern blockbuster even if better movies have probably been made since. That's of course not the only way to look at media though. I can imagine OoT's reputation might sour the experience of a first time player today expecting it to change their life, when it's just a great game.
I don't like labeling games as "Greatest of all time" because it's way too general, but I prefer labels like most "respectable" "innovative" or "disappointing" of all time. I say this because OOT is definitely up there as one of the most "Respectable" games ever released. I bought the 3DS remake in 2011 and wasn't a fan of it, but I'm not blind to the ideas the devs had or risks the game took and can I see the impact the game has had on the industry, which has led to games that I DO like.
@@prestige8477I never thought about calling games like this but I love this idea. I’m so sick of people calling a game “one of the greatest games of all time” (favorite game is fine) because so many games are called that. Like there are probably 100 games with that title, but it doesn’t even say why. Like I love RE4 for different reasons than Persona 5 than I do Doom Eternal.
Also, Deku Nuts are used to counter-attack the Stalfos, that's why they drop them when you defeat them.
About Sheik, it would have been so cool to have a side game/mode similar to RE4's Separate Ways.
Ballsiest title ever.
while I may not agree with your non-sonic opinions and takes (couldn't care less about sonic and I personally don't have any strong feelings for Oot) I love your content regardless. you never come off as "this is what I think therefore its what you should think" or "its the initial wow factor that makes the game so good even years later" nostalgia bs like others do. i'm happy people aren't scared to treat OoT like a product and not some holy icon and criticize the f*ck out of it. when I was a kid I loved OoT but I also loved pretty much everything I played. all these years later I find that its development history is far more interesting than the game itself.
my biggest issue with OoT is one I discovered playing the randomizer for it. I love zelda randomizers but so far OoT was the worst experience i've had with it. there isn't any "bad seed try a better one" excuse because OoT is just.. not fun to explore or do things in out of sequence. MM doesn't have that problem, WW doesn't have that problem. none of the 2D games i've randomized have that problem. it might just be a combination of it being the first complete attempt at a 3D hyrule and my knowledge of the beta versions of the game but.. still, it was a fucking chore. granted I was playing the game in a way that wasn't intended but I think it still has merit as a complaint.
Valid points, Pariah, but personally I don’t think the shortcomings of OOT are that much better in ALTTP either. While the optional content in OOT are more problematic, there’s still much less of it in ALTTP so I find the experience comparable. I had this issue with your Link’s Awakening video too personally, and while I respect your preference for games to be more focused, the mere fact that they’re optional content means that they can be ignored, and as long as it doesn’t somehow poison the experience I’m not bothered. I do generally find exploration better in ALTTP, but only to an extent. And ultimately the epic scope and presentation of Ocarina of Time makes it superior to ALTTP in my eyes.
But I do agree with the sentiment that both ALTTP and OOT, while great games and starting foundations, have both been surpassed through improving on their shortcomings; the best examples I can think of are Majora’s Mask, Minish Cap, Twilight Princess, and A Link Between Worlds.
Finally someone has the balls to say something negative about this game
What are you on about? It's been "cool" to hate on OOT ever since egoraptor's terrible LTTP/OOT sequelitis video. Just like with FF7, criticising OOT isn't cool or original anymore and hasn't been for a while. These days I hear more people calling these games "overrated" than people actually "overrating" them.
47:23: Why were the devs obsessed with ocarinas? Because it’s a very simple, beautiful instrument, that anyone can use. It can be made from a lump of clay, and anyone can blow on it, and cover up the holes to make diff notes. I used to have a cheap clay ocarina, I need to buy a new one
oh hell yeah, we're so back dude
After watching the video I can definitely get the criticisms. For me, I usually just do the dungeons when I replay this game so I tend to spend more time with the stronger aspects of the game and less on the weaker parts. In fact, I've probably replayed this game a dozen+ times but only ever did a completionist run maybe once years ago. I think that gives me a higher opinion of the game. I do like all the 3D Zelda games about the same, besides Skyward Sword, but I revisit this one the most because it's a very comfortable game for me.
36:30 ok no, stop right there.
Deku Nuts are exclusively meant to be used for combat and add a little bit more depth to the flow of combat because functionally it replaces the 2D Zelda Boomerang.
The general purpose of the deku nut is that it's a flash-bang, you throw it down and it stuns enemies in a large area around you.
For dealing with Business Scrubs, the flash area is very great at not only uprooting a couple of them instantly, but also destroying any of their projectiles in the process, the only item to beat out Deku Nuts on this front is the Megaton Hammer because its shockwaves also uproot Business Scrubs but from a greater distance, though without destroying their active projectiles.
The uprooting effect also applies to Mad Scrubs and Deku Scrubs, causing them to jump up immediately and run around as if you returned their nut with your shield.
But for broader combat, most enemies become instantly stunned when you use a Deku Nut, provided they're close enough, which sure for a few of the weaker enemy type, why bother?
Well for Keese and Guays, this is actually the only way to stun them in the game, causing them to fall to the ground where you can stab them without having to counter attack their dives or make several attempts with a ranged weapon, and it's particularly useful against Keese because the only other large area of effect option Link has is Din's Fire, and keese will only become fire keese when exposed to flames.
With regards to tougher and more complex enemies, I believe a few are straight up immune, namely Iron Knuckles, but a good variety actually aren't, and trying to land a Deku Nut stun on the likes of Stalfos and Wolfos goes back to trying to read their blocking patterns because they can certainly block the Deku Nut stun, but you can still catch them off guard and open them up for a more powerful jump attack.
Oh yeah and lastly, those bubble enemies in Jabu Jabu's belly are instantly destroyed by a Deku Nut flash, just something nice to be aware of the next time you end up in a room of 20 of them with one minute to kill them all.
And now for a tangent on the Ice Arrows... yeah they don't have a lot of significant use...
how ever, they are capable of freezing the sliding blade traps in place for a few seconds, but definitely a "cool after-thought" kind of item.
Ah yeah uhh
no, about the other arrow types doing more damage, no, they don't...
...except for Ice Arrows.
Normal Arrows, Fire Arrows, and Light Arrows all only do 2 damage (same as Master Sword), Ice Arrows do 4.
The main property for Light Arrows that is of use outside of Ganon's Castle and Ganondorf himself is money generation: anything you kill with it drops a purple rupee.
I can't argue on Bombchus, their best use is for hover glitches because they explode instantly when placed in the air. Also there's a funny crash you can do with bombchus and moving Link out of bounds (normally only doable in Ganon's Castle, funny enough), the specifics depends on the version such as Wii VC it only crashes if Link moves out of bounds while a bombchu is active in bounds, but still funny.
I know that Deku Nuts stun enemies. But as I said, I find using items in combat to be very negligible. The utility is not nearly useful enough to justify pausing to equip them. That goes for nearly all items when fighting.
And the light arrows are used for getting money? Thank goodness. You're really hurting for cash the entire game lol.
@@Pariah6950 Yeah fair enough. I still think it's cool that deku nuts can instantly clearly some of particular enemies types.
The light arrows, I'm not even sure why they bothered with the purple rupee thing for it; the only place left to go by that point is Ganon's Castle, and yeah, rupees are more or less useless outside of buying zora tunic early for funny text from King Zora.
Both are a fair bit more useful in Randomizers, the former for being easily obtainable and the latter for progression items being held in shops, and usually the same deal for rom hacks, but yeah base game deku nuts are very optional, I still think they can help speed fights up a bit, and light arrows are just the last dungeon item before the game ends.
We already had Tomb Raider for combat
22:07
The desert is to the east? Does that mean the geography of Twilight Princess on the Wii is more faithful than on the Gamecube?
That's because I'm playing Master Quest. In the 3D version, it mirrors the whole game.
@@Pariah6950 Ah, gotcha, thanks for informing!
I really appreciate this review. I've noticed these things for a while too, but felt unsure of myself whetever I'm just overthinking things. Always felt at odds with its over-the-top hype.
I find the suggestion of going back to the "bullet hell" style of combat very interesting. Personally, I've considered turning it into a bit of a DOOM thing with mixed enemy types in tight arenas, item usage, resource management and so on with some depth through the rupee system, to lock optional rewards behind big paywalls for skilled players to get. Like not needing as many potions or choosing to go without buying elemental tunics for a more challenging experience, or dripfeeding you 2 bucks or something when you interact with the advanced combat.
Either way, lots of potential they ended up using zero off for like two decades because traditions I guess.
The thing about the bad reward for 100 Skulltullas I very much agree with, although I feel like it's point of having this wiggle room is also reduced by the fact that one person remains cursed until you find ALL of them, instead of just having everyone freed at 50 and then turning the rest into blatant bonus.
I mean, you don't have much tangible motivation to help them beyond the story reasons UNTIL you get a reward for the first time and seeing how valuable they can be, so that tends to become a point in my subconscious checklist that wants to be ticked off after the rewards run out and manipulated me into forcing myself until I really don't care anymore.
The PC decompilation (Ship of Haarkinan) has a 60fps option btw
Awhile since I played the game so I tried the remake and with master quest right away with a cheat. Wow, what a fun experience and have been enjoying the extra edge and difficulty
7 minutes in and I'm so much more interested in your Zelda takes again lol. I've still been in it ever since your Shadow video, but still. Grew up with Link to the Past, and while I liked OoT a ton when it came out, even as a 7yo I felt like the pacing was soooo much slower. Not a bad game, but it's great to hear you revisit the value of LttP
Eager to watch the rest!
Talking about emptiness makes me want a Pariah shadow of the colossus video
I personally am not too bothered by the original’s 20 FPS. I know frame rate can be especially important for more modern games, but at least for something like OoT, I never really felt like a higher frame rate was all that necessary. But then, mind you I did grow up with the original release, so perhaps it’s a me thing.
your comment about the gold skulltulas - how the reward being shit makes it fine to miss a bunch of them, in a way that actually improves the game - reminded me of a thing link's awakening did. the original gameboy version had 26 seashells, you got a reward for finding 20 of them, and once you got the reward the remaining 6 seashells just straight up disappear. the switch remake changed this and brought the seashells up to 50 for some baffling reason.
i feel like this method of removing the last few missed collectibles so players missing a few is accounted for by the system is genius, and it's a shame later zelda games didn't do something similar. a first time player won't know you get a garbage reward for collecting all 900 korok seeds or whatever, so discouraging collecting them all mostly only works for repeat playthroughs, while the link's awakening method prevents first time players from tearing their hair out because they missed one gold skulltula somewhere.
I know this doesnt apply to a casual experience but i still prefer the N64 ( even if you play in gamecube or Wii VC) as there is a lot of glitches, techniques and game quirkinesses that make the game a lot more enjoyable and unique as someone who replays it too much, one of those cases where you know a game too much to the point that is strange to go back and think about the "normal experience" of the game
I mean.. a lot of those glitches or at least the most well known ones are in the 3DS version. but I get what you mean. N64 Crust is N64 crust and a treat.
I thought you were going to play the Ship of Harkinian version :( Oh and btw SOH decompilation haves an fps interpolation feature so you can play it at 60 fps.
I know. But frame interpolation is fake. The game is still running at 20. Higher framerates aren't just about the look. They improve the feel and responsiveness of a game. That's what I care more about.
@@Pariah6950 From what i've heard is that the SOH interpolation it's not exactly done like those horrible AI interpolated videos it's more of a code thing that i don't fully understand. But anyways you have your preferences and it's totally fine like you said in the video.
@@DaHeis What it does is that it interpolates the animations, but the game logic is still running at 20 frames. That means that everything in the game can only actually happen every three frames, but it looks like a smooth 60. I prefer the 3ds version because the interpolated 60 feels worse then the game running at 20 imo.
The 3DS version of OoT was beautiful and felt better. It technically looked better.
I dont prefer it to the original. There are things that changed that I prefer, one example being the blood. The well.
The original game's lower quality visuals always give it an edge for me, of course, for nostalgia but they also let the scarier factors of the game shine better for me. Something about it is just innately creepier to me, which is subjective, but for me, preferable. I love the aesthetic. There are also glitches I enjoy using that are not in the 3DS version, which isnt a bad thing for many people, but made me sad.
Other things to note! The 3DS version's 30 fps is very nice. The decompilation you mentioned on PC does allow for an uncapped framerate and it feels INCREDIBLE. It is buttery smooth, amazing. It looks weird at first but you get used to it and it's so good. It's probably the best way to play OoT
That's not something OOT3D changed tho, it was a revision of the original that did the censorship.
18:20 I don't know how a certain video could frame this as a negative. That you, a hero, shouldn't care about helping people. Like a game having a story is talking down to you somehow.
The light temple did come back in Twilight Princess
Well it’s at least refreshing to hear a different voice talking about Ocarina, RUclips has enough videos dumping the same impossible high compliments on Ocarina. (For example, everyone is always waxing nostalgic about how it’s almost the perfect experience lol and a huge part of childhood and growing up blah blah blah lol.) Myself I think I mostly love the nature scenery
Every interesting and bold to say its one of the worst Zelda games. I def agree its not the best. Still excellent game tho but this is most ppl favorites and i just think its not. Pretty much you touched upon all the issues with it. Super important and ground breaking game for its time, that counts for something. Dungeon design is excellent. Still holds up really well. But Twilight Princess is just thing game done better imo. Like literally its the same game pretty much lol. And this doesnt hold a candle to Links Awkaening or Majoras Mask imo.
Idk I think the combat is pretty bad and would criticize the game heavily for it, considering it has a lot of combat throughout the whole game. Like I can't think of much big name 3d combat systems that are more shallow than 3d Zelda. Even some poorly received action rpg or like platinum game licensed Korra game has way more depth than 3d zelda. The fact that the series combat system stayed this shallow for 2 decades because of oot influence is such a big problem. Personally I can't say I find the dungeons all that engaging either. They don’t test critical thinking skills like actual puzzle games, 3d Zelda ""puzzles"" simply test if the player is paying attention. Older 2d Zelda had much less emphasis of this style of puzzle design and was a more combat oriented, which was good because 2d Zelda's had good combat. I'll admit, I'm an aonuma hater, as you mentioned in the video aonuma really changed the trajectory of Zelda and personally I think it was for the worst, like really bad. Only recently with Botw did my affection for 3d Zelda rekindle a bit and I think aunoma not being director had something to do with it.
Not sure how you're disagreeing with me. I said the combat is bad. I find "even Korra is better" to be a strange thing to say, as if that game has horrible combat. Of course a Platinum game has better combat than Zelda. They usually have better combat than most video games.
I also do agree with you on the puzzles. This is something I wanted to mention, but cut for time. Will probably include in a later video. Like how the combat is nowhere near as good as a real action game, the puzzle as nowhere near as good as a real puzzle game. And the previous 2 Zeldas definitely did have these kinds of puzzles as well, but I'd argue not as good.
And these are definitely problems I'd like to see fixed. But I still manage to find Zelda plenty enjoyable as a jack of all trades kind of game. The gameplay isn't why I play these games. I enjoy them for the sense of adventure that they deliver thanks to all these systems. They are greater than the sum of their parts kind of games to me.
Agreed, Aonuma kinda ruined the Zelda series
Yknow, I never thought that an airtight continuity would make sense for the legend of zelda. I mean if they're all separate legends then why should they mesh properly, a legend is shaky at best when depicting anything, these should be no different
To be honest i prefer Young Link from 3DS over N64 because the N64 YL is just ugly BUT i really prefer Adult Link from the N64 than the 3DS version,N64 AL looks more "Adult" if i say so,he also has the cool sharp eyes like "ima end ganon whole carrer" type of gaze,3DS Adult Link just feels childish for me idk,is like some people with babyface if i say so,not to mention he looks more "neutral" than the "sharp gaze" he had in the N64.
So my opinion is :
3DS Young Link >>> N64 Young Link
3DS Adult Link
Seeing everything mirrored hurts my memory-brain.
Hey, are you gonna do the murder of sonic the hedgehog? No pressure, juat wanna know
My main memory of this game is turning the N64 off in the middle of the water temple or something. I used to be an asshole
Don't know. Haven't played it yet.
Oh, I’ve been waiting for this one. Ocarina of Time is my favorite game ever made. It’s been like that for 11 years and will likely never change.
Its the best Zelda game ever, period.
pariah659 posted?? church can wait.
Ok first off for what you say in the description about using the Master Sword the trade off still matters as the combat is not actually bad.
The combat in these games are not bad at all.
Nah as a game on its own as just something to play the combat is not really weak.
Actually wrong mechanically there is quite a bit to this combat system, what you described is not it for the most part there are other stuff too like avoiding enemy attacks and using different items against different enemies like boomerangs or bombs or the hookshot or the slingshot or the hammer etc.
Sure you can hold up your shield and there is nothing most enemies can do to you but you need to lower your guard to attack enemies which does create a risk of getting attacked and hurt by enemies and against multiple of them just standing there blocking them is not gonna be easy and you will have to avoid their attacks more at that point and of course there are enemies that can do stuff even if you hold up your shield too. It is that much of a relevant factor because the enemy damage in this game is not too low and is mostly fair and balanced, you do actually have to concern yourself most of the time with self preservation especially against a lot of enemies. Blindly wailing on the enemy will not be fine in most cases as you will still likely get hurt which could affect you in the long run so you have to worry about dying. Ok true with bottles and fairies that saves you from dying but you will not always have them and even at times you could still realistically possibly die at points especially later on in temples like The Spirit Temple. That is not really the case for any future Zelda game so it is fine. It does not make the combat irrelevant or worthless as I explained as it can still be challenging and nothing makes the combat irrelevant or worthless.
The depth is not needless as it always comes in handy and makes combat more interesting and engaging.
Ok yeah nevermind that stuff is kinda needless that is weird, but it could make a little difference so it is not totally worthless so it is overall a positive.
The spin attack was previously practical and useful before actually but now it is even better.
It does matter at times against tougher enemies but not all the time.
Yeah I knew the enemy AI could be predicted but that is pretty cool and shows off something else that is neat about the combat.
Spacing and stuff like that really does matter as the more spacing there is the more careful you can be to avoid enemy attacks. So it is not really whatever is the fastest attack as sometimes you may wanna play things more safe and doing the stab attack will not always work, so no the entire system still does matter.
The combat is not weak overall.
So if it is not great or terrible combat then how is it weak or bad combat?
I honestly much much prefer the combat of this and 3D Zelda combat over 2D Zelda game combat which is much more simple in comparison to this.
It is not really much more fun as combat is still pretty heavily movement focused in the 3D zelda games too trying to block and avoid enemy attacks and avoid all those projectiles and stuff that are being thrown at you while also trying to land hits on your own, like all of that stuff IS in OOT’s combat system too and more.
Nah Ocarina of Time did manage to properly translate the combat of the 2D Zelda formula into 3D.
The combat in the 3D Zelda games is not static and it is more then just you and a enemy attacking each other, there is also dodging and countering the enemy too and using items against them, so there is much in the way of like dodging and maneuvering and stuff like that. What is in the 3D Zelda games combat is not weak compared to what was in previous games and is instead a improvement.
Nah Z targeting was the best idea in the world.
The combat is usally really fun, even with Z targeting just more complex and engaging with it.
It is not really better then that, it is just another way of doing combat.
The Z targeting thing was the right choice and they would not have been better off trying to make a more faithful version of 2D Zelda combat in 3D.
The combat of the 2D Zelda games is not more maneuvering focused. It was not the wrong choice here.
Nah they should not have gone away from the Z targeting combat.
The items do impact the combat in a significant way. You do need to use them sometimes and at other times they are just effective enough to use against enemies.
No usually when you are fighting enemies in Ocarina of Time and all 3D Zelda games there is at least enough reason to stray away at times from just using the sword to just hack at enemies as at times other methods are more effective and the combat is not nothing it is pretty good actually and it does matter.
There was not really a much greater emphasis on using your items in the combat a lot in the previous Zelda games or at least not that greater of an emphasis, including Zelda 1. And stuff like the Boomerang and Bombs and the Bow and the hammer and other stuff can be pretty useful against enemies a lot of the time in Ocarina of Time too. No here a lot of the time the items are useful against enemies. So is it more great then you think.
No in most cases the items are practical and useful enough against enemies to warrant even bothering. So no that is not a problem. It is not a problem with the combat though.
I have nostalgia for this version of OoT.
It's a shame that the 3ds is the definitive version; because of the way Nintendo operates you know its just going to end up stuck on the 3DS. Remember Mario 64 DS; it might not the definitive version but its stuck on the DS forever. All official playable future versions of OoT will just be a badly emulated N64 version.
Honestly there are so many disagreeable stuff here and I can't see it as worse than AlttP, especially when it just expanded in every way what it did. Also this game has my favorite design and style of any Zelda series period, it really captures the fantasy element of the game and I love the artstyle a lot. This is how I envision the world of this series personally, even if I don't have an artstyle I dislike. Also this is not only my favorite Zelda game, but also my favorite game. I also think many of the elements criticized in this game are worse in Majora, which somehow gets a free pass for it. For me the biggest seller of the 3ds version as definitive is the gyro aiming, since aiming in both 64 games were awful. For me I consider Twilight Princess the weakest 3D Zelda game, and easily has the worst combat by far. One of the lesser discussed elements of Ocarina that makes it infinitely replayable for me is the utilization of Link's entire kit, every single item in the game has a purpose and use and you can discover things with items you didn't know you could do, a major issue with a lot of 3D Zelda games are either item avaibilty and poor utilization. Which is also where Twilight Princess becomes one of the worst offenders offering less flexible combat.
Deku Nuts are argubly the best item in the game and serve different purposes, like not having to wait for enemies to lower their guard for instance, which people commonly cite as a problem, ironically this is where Majora does that worse and makes the Deku nuts less effective overall. Deku Nuts have a use, people just don't bother utilizing them. And the way you can use your tools against enemies is also fun. The Ice Arrows also have a use as well in combat. I find in general to better preserve you bottles on things like Green Potions over fairies, because of things like Farore's Wind and Arrows. I would also argue that the game doesn't need to directly tell the player that items have to be useful to be useful, if you can experiment and find a use for them I don't see why a game not outright telling you should matter, because for me It can lead to a lot of misinformation if what the item actually provides in utility is overlooked. The only item in the game I would call close to useless is Nayru's Love outside of the Ocarina. Plus while not the best, I can't say the combat is any worse than any other 3d Zelda, when again Twilight Princess is the worst game in the series combat wise, even Zelda 1 had more intuitive and interactive combat. Skyward Sword I feel has the best 3d Zelda combat, even if I prefer Ocarina. Ocarina is also better because so many moments in TP require the use of day and night, only you can't influence it like you can here and basic combat items are just worse versions of previous items, like the Gale Boomerang, and a lot of its overworld I just find worse overall maybe.
Water Temple isn't even really that bad at all, especially in 3D where a lot of its issues were fixed, namely the menu swapping. I also think you just undersold a lot of the items in general. Farore's wind is easily the best spell in the game and is so useful for dungeon treading, especially if you memorize a room that's blocked, know where to get a key, then spell as a warp point back to where you previously were. The Water temple practically thrives on Farore's Wind's utility, and even minor things like casting a warp before getting the boss key in Shadow Temple is useful, since you can skip the backtracking and just warp back. It can even be useful for beginners who say fall off of a surface and have to climb back up, you can anticipate it by casting a warp to insure you won't have to backtrack as much in some cases. It can really save time on dungeons. And this is from someone who thinks Zelda dungeons are designed with backtracking in mind and doesn't mind it. It rewards players for knowing dungeon layout and can get you to warp in places you wouldn't think. I also don't agree with Sheik not doing anything because it misses the point of her character.
The pc port has interpolation for 60fps
Ocarina of Time is a great game. I have some salt for it because it set some standards in motion that eventually got distilled into becoming Skyward Sword, the only bad Zelda game. That said...
"Link to the Past but in 3D" - I couldn't disagree more. Ocarina of Time is FAR closer to being a 3D Zelda 2 than it is to any of its other predecessors, but it takes a lot of pieces from all of them. The biggest difference, which is HUGE between the two, is that Ocarina of Time is linear and A Link to the Past is not. After dungeon 1 of the Dark World, you can complete Dungeons 2, 3, or 4 next in any order without any problem, for example, and that's a fundamental difference to the very *core* of these games. Before Ocarina of Time, there were two linear Zeldas and two nonlinear Zeldas. Ocarina cemented which of these would become the norm for a very long time (and chose poorly in my opinion).
The alternate version of the game world having only one connection point instead of a bunch scattered around also makes that completely different. It can't be used for gating or for puzzles. That is more similar to Zelda 2's raft across continents than it is to Link to the Past's two worlds in functionality, just not in theming.
"Doesn't take that much of an advantage of the 3D space in reality" - I would've liked to see a lot more use of verticality. That's definitely one thing Majora's Mask got right over Ocarina of Time.
Dungeons having their own thing kinda started with Link to the Past (as its dungeons all look different), but is really more from Link's Awakening, where dungeons first started having their own gimmicks and music.
The Water Temple would've been one of my favorites in the game if you could equip the Iron Boots to the C buttons and the Ocarina parts unlocked permanent water level switches instead of needing to repeat the songs over and over. It's one of the few times they actually used verticality in the dungeon design. Throughout the majority of the game, I found the dungeon rooms to mostly be super predictable, and the "puzzles" to be way too easy.
The "feel" and "tone" being different - Link's Awakening is still probably the darkest Zelda there is (you destroy an entire pocket dimension, killing everyone in it, while the game's "monsters" beg you to stop because they don't want to die), and Link to the Past had the whole realm at stake, with an invading force threatening from the Dark World, which was previously the Light World's sacred realm, which has been corrupted by Ganon. Ocarina of Time only has the kingdom of Hyrule at stake. Things like "feel" and "tone" hadn't really been nailed down yet, and honestly still varied in future games.
The combat being bad - This was the biggest influence taken from Zelda 2. It's heavily based on blocking and waiting for openings to strike, just like Zelda 2, and the enemies themselves are also more from Zelda 2 than from anywhere else. I'm not a big fan of this. The combat is basically something to get through to get back to playing the game, at least for me.
Deku Nuts - Apparently, you can create openings by using these instead of waiting for openings... I wish this was something the game made clear instead of something I find out decades later. They might make combat closer to reasonable... Not that I would've used a finite resource back then anyway.
Hunting for gold skulltulas - Sure, you could skip half of them and still get everything worthwhile... Just like how you don't need all the seashells in Link's Awakening to get the upgraded sword... But none of them are exactly *hard* to find in Ocarina. They make a loud noise and the game tells you when a zone has none left on the map screen. I beat the game with all the gold skulltulas on the same Christmas day that I received it (which was a bit disappointing to be done with it so quickly; it's _way_ too short in my opinion).
You can do a bit of OoT out of order. You can do the Water Temple before the Fire Temple, the Spirit Temple before the Shadow Temple, the Ice Cavern before the Forest Temple, and the Well can be done immediately after the Forest Temple. That's not too bad, I'd say. While Zelda 1 and Lttp are more open, they do still force you to do some things in order. And Lttp is more linear than 1. So OoT is just continuing the trend. You might not agree with that choice, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it.
Also, I don't know in what world Skyward Sword is the only bad Zelda game. Have you played Triforce Heroes?
I guess I can kind of see how the combat may have been inspired by Zelda 2. How you can "high block" by Z-target blocking and "low block" by blocking normally. But if that was the intention, they failed even more so to recreate that combat in 3D because it plays nothing like it.
@@Pariah6950 Sorry, I forgot Triforce Heroes existed. I can't judge that game though because I skipped it...
Are you sure the Water Temple doesn't have a rusted switch in it somewhere? I thought it did, but can't remember precisely where and it's 4am for me, so I can't verify right now.
Crossing the sand requires the hover boots. Technically, some people can longshot across if they're perfectly on the right polygon, but it's clearly unintended tech to pull off and not everyone can do it.
Beyond the high block and low block... In Zelda 2, a lot of the enemies leave you waiting around a lot. The iron knuckles, for example, will do a barrage of attacks when hit to keep you from hitting them multiple times in a row. (They can be cheesed by jumping and attacking mid-air, but it's clear what the game expects you to do here.) Another example is Volvagia, which you have to keep waiting for them to pop out from below to attack. This is pretty consistent throughout the game for a lot of enemies. You consistently wind up locked into (blocked by) one on one sword combat with a foe. It's this aspect of the style I'm referring to.
By contrast, other 2D Zelda games up to this point in time almost always have a way to attack enemies whenever they exist. There are little exceptions here and there (like the leevers that burrow underground), but for the most part you almost never need to wait around for combat in those games, and the few you do need to wait to attack can usually in most cases be safely ignored instead of fought.
You can also look at what enemies are in Ocarina of Time to see what I mean. Iron Knuckles & Lizalfos, but no Darknuts. Octorocks match the Zelda 2 version of their AI, jumping in place to shoot. Stalfos having shields. Volvagia, Shadow Link, etc... There are definitely some that are from the other games (like Gohma & Poes), but it definitely feels to me like it leans more heavily towards Zelda 2 enemies than Zelda 1, Link to the Past, or Link's Awakening enemies.
@@thajocoth You can definitely do the Water Temple first. I've done it before.
I have no idea what you're talking about with needing the hover boots for the sand. All you need is the longshot. That's what the game tells you. Again, I've done it and it's not hard at all.
Phenominal video, my only grip is that you kept saying "remake". The 3DS version of Ocarina of Time is actually a Remaster, the game uses the same source code as the original, infact the original N64 assets are still in the game. it doesn't take away from the review at all, it's just people will go around saying OoT was remade on the switch which isn't true. Just another misconception with Remaster being confused with Remake again.
Really? I had no idea it was built on top of the original game. That's cool.
@@Pariah6950 yeah it's really cool! it's why some of the N64 glitches/bugs were intentionally left inside the game by the developers as well. they wanted fans to have fun with the original. Unfortunately with the Majora's Mask 3DS remaster... they changed way too much about that game.. but yeah it also uses the same source code as the original and by data-mining/hacking the game you can see the N64 assets as well.
"Oh no, how dare you criticized the 99 game in meta critic aka the best game of all time"
You killed me!!!
Good 😎.
The crash nsane trilogy doesn't play the same though
Not true about the pc port it goes up to 360 fps
Typography is worse in the remake
I like how u said for the combat example if u wanna play good z targetting combat go play soulsborne games. Well ill say if u wanna play good fun actually challenging dungeon design go play tomb raider☠️
Perhaps.
Honestly....I've always found Zelda boring AF. I don't understand the popularity. But to each his own
3DS remake doesn't respect player intelligence in regards to the camera work for the puzzles
case and point: the central tower of the Water Temple where the camera has to spoon-feed the player directions on a key location because "oh no you might not see the secret passage under the floating platform".
Oh yeah no N64 version of Ocarina of Time being unresponsive?
Hah, only if you play it on the Nintendo Switch port on launch day.
I play the Gamecube port every year, if there is any input lag, it's too minute for me to even notice.
Gamecube remaster was the best version!!!!!
Ocarina has always been really divisive for me. On one hand, it's a really good game and a shockingly excellent transition into 3D for the series. But on the other hand, it's unbearably boring. Not in terms of gameplay, gameplay is fine, but the story is just so generic and lame, literally the only interesting things that happen are that Ganondorf surprises everyone including the player by using the Temple of Time to get into the Sacred Realm and steal the Triforce after Link opened the door for him, and that Zelda disguises herself as Shiek. But even these have caveats, like how no one mentions that Zelda's gone missing [as far as I remember]. And I blame that nothing story on Miyamoto, the George Lucas of gaming. Yoshiaki Koizumi had to essentially sneak all the story of Link's Awakening into the game secretly, under Miyamoto's nose, because Miyamoto has the same perspective on story in a game as John Carmack of Id has. And once the game was released, Miyamoto fucking HATED that Link's Awakening had story deeper than "blond boy save princess". The exact same thing went down with Super Mario Galaxy. I could go on forever about what an old, out of touch hack Miyamoto has become but this isn't the place.
During every subsequent playthrough following my first, I've gotten to about the Forest Temple and just lost interest. Which is ironic because the Forest Temple is widely considered the best dungeon in the game. Like the presentation is great, way nicer than most other games from 1998 and possibly the best presented action RPG or JRPG to that point. But god it's just so generic in terms of story, and the text takes so long to scroll, even in the objectively superior [other than the couple instances of censorship] 3D remake, that I've only ever finished the game once as a preteen.
Even during my most recent attempt on 3D's Master Quest, which was really engaging to me because of how the dungeons were remixed and how you had to actually watch your health since you take double damage, that's the exact point I stopped as well.
Twilight Princess being a blatant retread of Ocarina doesn't help either. Like there's obviously a Zelda formula- first 1/3rd of the game has you explore the world and collect 3 things, then a MASSIVE event goes down that changes both the world and your motivations and you now have to go back through the world and collect 4-8 things in newly opened dungeons before the final boss. Hell, even Breath of the Wild followed this formula, going from the 3 runes on the Great Plateau to the 4 Divine Beasts in Hyrule Proper. But Twilight Princess copies this so hard, even going in the same order of dungeon themes, that it just feels like a mediocre reimagining of Ocarina. And because whereas Ocarina at least had an interesting visual direction, the stupid edgy boring ugly mid 2000s look of Twilight Princess counteracts all it's improvements, plus the use of such low quality samples for the sequenced music sounds so out-of-place and awkward with the visual direction. Twilight Princess at least has a more in-depth version of the story, with even better presentation. And also Midna. But overall, I don't know which game I dislike more.
I'm really interested to see you cover Majora's Mask though, as it's my absolute favorite 3D Zelda and probably my favorite Zelda overall. It's kind of amazing just how many things Majora improved upon compared to the first Zelda 64 game, especially considering the major time crunch during development.
Also uh... Golden Skulltulas appear regardless of what time it is. A couple may be day or night exclusive but either all or most are available to get no matter what time it is...
You should review xenoblade series if you like zelda and rpgs.
Let's gooo
I respect your opinion but I sure think IGN probably doesn't
There's only one difference that I prefer in the original over the 3DS version. The 3DS is the definitive version of OoT imo, and it is my favorite game ever.
However, the OG version had the classic N64 fog that helped give the game a more mystical atmosphere to me at least, also the lighting was tinge darker and made thinks feel more enveloping.
Namely in Ganon's fight is where it's the most intense.
There are a lot of details the original gets better, but it still overall just loses to the overall upgrade in visuals and playability...and not being so sensitive that you need to play on a genuine N64 controller or get bent.(The shooting-minigames still give me bad memories from being nigh impossible on modern controllers)
@@lpfan4491 Yeah, if only the 3DS emulators had settings/romhacks to improve that. Giving it a bit of fog would catapault it to perfection. Alongside darkening the Ganon fight.
Really only falls short on those 2 things for me.
The Animations for the 3DS are awful. The way link jumps is awkward and he looks like he is constantly being pulled back by some invisible force
Khalil was good
No one ever doubted that Zelda was good
The title is just an acknowledgement that this series is by the same guy who makes the Sonic Was Always Good series, that's just what Pariah names his retrospective series.
Man, I hope we get mega man was always good
Believe or not, some people actually did try to say that Zelda was never good. Not as many as the people that tried to say that Sonic was never good but still a sizable amount.
Dude , do hear how you talk?
You talk about Zelda as if you can blaspheme an I.P. like it's a religion.
And blaspheme an actual God of a real religion that exists outside of your screens.
I use to be the same way , thinking I was condemned for being ignored , and it's not true.
religious nuts need to get off the internet.
I can't agree. I think a link to the past is tedious and really ugly-looking
Ocarina >>>>>>Majoras Mask
I fully admit this game is flawed in many ways. That said, I still feel Major's Mask was worse. MM is the only Zelda game I objectively hated enough to rage quit.
3ds game? Whole video is invalid.
The 3DS version looks how I remember the N64 version.
The lighting in the 3ds version ruins a few scenes, and completely butchers the atmosphere of the final ganon fight. The 3ds version is also censored in a few areas like no blood in the shadow temple and i "think" it removed the "blood" stains on the dead hands. It also keeps all the changes that were made on the updated cartridges of OoT on n64. For me the best part of oot is the atmosphere, and while most of oot3d looks fine, all those changes kind of kill it for me when i can just go play the original version of OoT. OoT may technically have bad, outdated graphics, but every time i replay it im still amazed at how alot of areas and cutscenes look despite the lack of polygons. I still get shivers when im fighting ganon, i cant say the same for the 3d version.
So do you just consistently have the worst takes imaginable or what? Is that supposed to be the whole gimmick of your channel and these reviews?
Literally