That's always been my thought, too. Since I heard it I was like "oh I've always wanted to make a book like that with fake fantasy plants and stuff as like, an art project, but I was too busy with school and also video games exist and I'm busy. Hm, people had nothing to do back then. This could be just a bored rich person's hyperfixation project."
Yeah my first theory was “this looks like the illustrations from a Brandon Sanderson novel.” My money’s on a clever work of fiction with a very early conlang.
While I don't want to squash anyone's theory about the Voynich Manuscript's origins or meaning, I think that it's important to remember that this book is written not on paper but vellum. Vellum is a maternal made from animal skins and is essentially a highly processed type of leather. It was incredibly time and resource intensive to make vellum, causing the creation of this or any type of book to be fantastically expensive, and only the wealthiest members of society would be able to commission a book of this nature. Not to mention the watercolor type paint used to color in the images would also have required special dyes and pigments to create the variety of colors seen today. It's also important to remember that in the middle ages when this manuscript was made the ability to read was in and of itself a rare and precious knowledge that only certain people had access to. The commonly held theory that the manuscript is a phonetic mis-mash of multiple European languages would have required an even greater and more extensive knowledge of languages. In essence the only people with the money, resources, knowledge and connections to create such a manuscript would have to be one of the most elite people in all of Medieval Europe. Thus, I think it's safe to say that the Voynich Manuscript was not an ancient sketch book or grocery list as much fun as that might be to imagine.
@@AlinaProbably Lol, Thanks for the support! I learned a lot about medieval manuscript making in a college art history class, so this knowledge was just sitting in my head not doing anything. Hopefully my comment gave people some useful background information for understanding the historical context of the Voynich manuscript's creation.
So if only the most elite people could have access to the marierials and knowledge to make this, would it be safe to say that it was some rich person from the middle ages was basically making stuff up in this book as just a form of fiction/art?
I think it was written by a group of women. Herbs, astrogeology, birthing and bathing rituals... And this one person I just spoke with said it isn't written language, but music notes. I have leafed through my copy, and inserted pressed flowers and foliage, and written names of the plants I think are illustrated. The last part of the book is all written, so it is hard to even speculate on it... I could talk for literal MONTHS about this book.
until n unless u can decode the meaning of a sentence written in any modern language that u dont understand, like mandarin or anything, idk how u even feel like u can decipher that..
0:00 Met Lisa Fagin Davis today at Purdue University during her talk on parchment and manuscripts. After the awesome talk, my daughter and I went up and asked her what she thought of this episode. Yes, she has watched it!! She thought the episode was well done, commented that she loved the show, and said she was probably going to SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR CHANNEL!!! How cool is that?!?! We talked to her about your show and the Vonyinch Manuscript for a long time. Lisa is incredibly witty and has an amazing sense of humor. You guys should invite her on as a guest for Puppet History!!! ❤
We often forget that people from way back were just like us. Who would write something like this today? A book with fictional plants, creating a new language, coming up with recipes and whatnot, and some story about women bathing in a weird pool, etc. Sounds like world building to me. So my theory is that it was written by someone creating a fantasy world in their head, either with the intention of writing a book or a play, or just for their own escapism/art.
Yeah but you live in the era of FDA or an equivalent, hospitals, doctors, pharmacies, etc. imagine a world that couldn’t even fathom anything like that and you only communicate with most people in passing and you can’t read but there isn’t much to read outside the convents. People did this to sell their snake oil treatments and it was everywhere and people were sick. Imagine not getting dental treatments when you have a cavity and you don’t know what where why how and if you questioned a known professional you could be accused of blasphemy. You didn’t want to be accused of that. I would be terrified to be trapped in a time where every ailment was treated with blood letting and anything else the person believed would work like dung poultices, praying, raw chicken livers, etc. medieval medicine was terrifying. Honestly, like many people today, I would have died as a child without antibiotics. 😅
Yeah, I also like the theory that it's actually nothing serious or "fake", but it was made by ancient people for fun or jokes, like a comic book of the time
The difference is that back then almost nobody could read or write. Only the very elite of society. Paper and ink was very expensive and hard to get. Stories/plays weren't written down, there were very few fiction books - storytelling was all done orally, passed down through generations and across borders. Paper was reserved for science, law and religion. Whilst that theory could be right, I think it's unlikely that a scientist/lord/whoever would waste resources like that. The plants don't look fictional to me, I think it's more of a 'we can't comprehensively say what plant this is' rather than 'yes this plant is fictional'. At a glance some of them are familiar, one looked just like ginger roots. Alchemists were known to invent languages to keep their secrets safe. I'm going with a combination of 'invented language' and 'old Turkish', probably a language invented by an alchemist using old Turkish.
I do love that I was half listening to this in the background and it wasn’t the musical sting that alerted me to The Professor’s arrival, but the mild difference between his voice and Shane’s 😂
Fun fact, I took a Medieval Manuscripts course on fragmentology with Lisa Fagin Davis (it's [FEY-gin], by the way, as fun as FAH-gin is to say lol). She was a fantastic professor, we learned to recreate the order of a fragmented manuscript and assemble the pages digitally to recreate it. She also did whole day on the Voynich Manuscript, so I was thrilled to see this thumbnail! She gave us printouts of some of the pages, and showed us where we could get T-shirt with Voynich Manuscript designs haha Loved that class! So cool to see her in this episode :) One of the best courses I took in grad school!
About the plants in the book, keep in mind that there are many extinct species. It is very possible those were real plants once upon a time, but died out as the planet's climate changed or for other reasons. Interesting topic. I hope it gets fully translated someday, so we'll learn the book's secrets.
One thing shane didnt mention in the vid (i think) that I did find on the wiki page is that theres hints to it being in italy (the art style, drawings of villages) and the drawings also show a vulcano. Theres a bunch of italian cities buried under vulcano ashes, and entire islands can be buried & burned. Makes me think of the plants in the book and island being documented, the drawings of women also seem like theyre in a bathhouse, even next to the drawings of women some tower like structures seem to appear, you could also see towers in the map drawing. Though the island with a vulcano and plants theory is my own interpretation and not something i found on the wiki
I wanna add that alchemist texts and art look like a randomizer of different objects, symbols, and animals. But it was a form of code for alchemists to gatekeep the profession, so knowing people could look at the photo and know that the animal meant this element and a symbol for Jupiter meant another element. I could believe this was a coded illustrations and language that has since been lost, as we still don't fully know all of what alchemists texts mean even once translated to modern english
My thoughts exactly. The fact that ao many alchemists owned the manuscript and the illustrations, symbols, and code made me think it was an alchemical manuscript. Many books on alchemy show the symbolic nature and symbolism that most alchemists used to depict the practice. Carl Jung even had many dissertations on the subject, which made me think this was alchemical
Lisa Fagin-Davis is one of the best part of Voynich research I swear she has like a red telephone next to her bed that rings every time someone makes a new insane claim about the manuscript so she can dunk on it with lightning speed and accuracy
also, its nice to finally see the professor and Shane interact together, maybe if puppet history gets another season, he wont be as estranged of a producer, and will be in an episode :)
13:57 "I've never had direct contact with him before" - this is actually true, since (SPOILERS) the 'professor' Shane interacted with in S5 was technically the Substitute. I appreciate them respecting the continuity of the PH lore.
i had a lyft driver in boston a couple years ago who was researching this in her spare time because, she said, no one was willing to give out grants for it anymore, but she thought she'd cracked it. she was telling me that she figured out it's an ancient gaelic navigation manual and the book includes details that were necessary for a traveler. i was kind of wondering if she was right and i'd see her at the big reveal
You know what my favourite theory is for this? Someone who was clearly experienced with botany and pharmaceutics ended up creating a fantasy book for some roleplaying sessions, for themselves as a project, or whatever else.
@@sagarnegi9464I mean, I'd imagine it could only be a rich person if they had the means and time to study plants/medicine, along with having an extensive role-playing hobby.
is now the time where I mention that Tumblr staff ran an ARG for like three years which used an alphabet created from the Voynich Manuscript lol EDIT: i typed an entire explanation in the comments and apparently it vanished so here goes: basically, tumblr staff used a blog which posted screenshots from Guy Fieri's tv show with hints and clues to solving an ARG where we had to help out Leonora Carrington (an actual surrealist artist) and her friends Kati Horna and Remedios Varo as they found their way through a fictional Flavortown, and some of the websites and hints we went to and received were written in an alphabet the staff created from the Voynich Manuscript! it only took us a couple of months to solve that time around, but then they did a PART TWO (this time based around Italo Calvino's Invisible Cities) and it took us a couple of years; we only solved it about a month ago! Guys, it was a whole thing. People were sent books in Voynich, clues in boxes of dirt. We had to look at steganography, find coordinates on a map. Tumblr even had a musical album produced with hints and clues for parts of the ARG that included an album cover with a QR code. It was a Whole Thing.
Whoever is doing the motion graphics on this episode really upped their game. That timeline sequence is like the perfect Mashup of Puppet History and something like VOX would do. Love!
as a linguist and someone studying natural language processing, I appreciate y'alls discussing this & its linguistic significance and linguistic studies of the manuscript!
I took a linguist class in college. Never again. Idk how u guys do that shit bro I was SO fucking confused the entire class the science of language and how it comes to be is a science I never wanted to know existed
@@rofljen666 It’s literally like learning an alien language like idk how tf u guys decipher shit. When I say I barely passed I mean I BARELY passed literally was ab to switch it to P/F on god 😭
Same....I think it would be quite something if someone could use a universe simulator to find out if any planets out there would have the same constellation pattern as depicted in the book.
YES. This drives me crazy!! I'm a anthropology major so I'm suuuper interested in history and stuff. I'd sell my actual soul to know what the manuscript is about.
@@jarnold1789 I don't really care if it ends up being nothing more than like, an ancient encyclopedia or something. It's just about KNOWING. I want to KNOW what it is, I don't really care if it's all that interesting or not TvT
Librarian here. The Beinecke Library is an academic library, so one of their main purposes is to facilitate research. They'll hold a ton of different items including books, manuscripts, professional journals, and bunches of historical documents and items that wouldn't be books.
So, this channel appears in my recommended every now and then, and I just have to say something: Ryan and Shane have such a great repor with each other. It's so clear they're actually friends and can joke around with each other like that, it is honestly a breath of fresh air compared to other channels talking about simmilar things.
I think it would be nifty, if someone could use a universe simulator to figure out if there are any planets out there that would have the same constellation pattern as shown in the book.
so i just listened to one of Ardıç's extensive interviews about this manuscript and he says he was able to translate more than 300 words (a lot of them in direct correlation with the drawings provided) with old turkish languages and says his goal is to translate the entire thing. But unfortunately our country doesn't provide much support on history/language related sciences so he has been doing this only whenever he was available. It is unbelievable how much he was able to translate and as someone who understands a couple of turkish languages his explanations and direct translations blew my mind. How has this been such a huge mystery... even i was able to decipher a couple of words with just the alphabet he provided and using historical knowledge of our culture. There's apparently some pages with consistent rhymes too so whoever wrote this was a literary genius too apparently lmao. Not to mention in no point of this 240 pages of hand written/drawn manuscript NO CORRECTIONS WERE MADE no scrathing words out or crossing them. The writer either didn't give a crap about the mistakes or didn't make any mistakes while writing which is just insane in my opinion(like hell i make mistakes writing my own name sometimes) anyways all in all this was a very cool food for thought, i hope this won't become my new hyperfixation (also Ahmet and his sons apparently wrote an article about this called 'Voynich Manuscript Revealed' u can read it if u like but 44 pages sounded too much as a 3am read for me lol)
Historian who has studied European medieval manuscripts here: Its a guide book to life in general in a dialect/language no one speaks anymore. Its looks like a mixture of French and the Old Turkish which was presented in the show. Turkey was and still is right in the middle of trade between Europe and The East. Historically, Turkey was also in the middle of wars invasion and all sorts since the Greeks. Not all merchants and soldiers went home. Many stayed because they fell in love with someone, may have left the military dishonorably and couldn't at the threat of death, or didn't go back at all. Now this being made in the early/mid 1400s in an interesting time. Its roughly 200 years after the last crusade. The 9th one not the movie. The crusade brought mostly german and french European soldiers and monks through Turkey to get to Jerusalem. Over 9 crusades that last spanning over 400 years creates a lot of influence. Along, with the crusade there were also religion missionaries that made there own trips to spread Christianity during this timeframe. Christianity was spreading through Europe like a wild fire through teachings and other not so gentle ways. This is important because there were very few people who could actually read and write at this time. Those that could were scholars who were likely also monks, royalty, and monks, and monks taught royalty. So, this was probably written by a monk who transplant or joined a monastery and spoke/wrote in an old dialect of french and Turkish that is no longer spoken. Yale photocopied the manuscript in full and you can look/download a free pdf. I simply googled it. The first 30 pages present as a forger's guide of what to eat, what not to eat, what you can eat but has to be specialty be made. The vegetation in it looks like root veg such as beats, carrots, and sumac. These are and been very present in Turkish cuisine. The pages shown in the show what appears to ancient Roman baths which would have been in ruins, but maybe some where still active, or that's a history section. Either it appears as a guide of benefits or what they used for. The cosmos illustration: humans had known, especially eastern cultures knew the planets circled the sun. This wasn't news, but ya know white people claim that they found everything first even if it was 200+ years later 🙄. The ones of pregnant women, well people had a lot of thoughts on that back, but monks where your spiritual guide through life and some would might guide a woman through childbirth, bless the child, and some were scholars and doctors who would document things such childbirth, astrology, gardening, just life in general. Also, cow and goat are prominent in Turkish food. Perhaps there was a celebration or festival for the goats before becoming dinner? Ritual isn't out of the question. People during pre industrial times we're very serious about their animals. If was a live or death manner on how livestock was taken care of and their health because often those animals feed and produce milk, cheese, eggs, furs, and leather for the whole village. So very important! Cows are important to mention because one there were enough cows for the author to use cow skin as paper, and the person or patron was very wealthy. If it was monk perhaps we can find records of the wealthiest monasteries in Turkey. I do wonder if the author was Muslim then we could look into Mosque during this time? So, basically its not aliens or conspiracies just lost history that we might be able to find if we use context clues and critical thinking. That is mainly aimed at scholars who are over thinking it. Go look at it. There's literally a drawing of an artichoke that are very prominent in Turkey! Thanks for reading my novel.
Thank you for this novel! I agree that a lot of the plants look familiar enough that they are some combo of a) the drawings don't give enough minor details for botanists to be confident in identifying them. b) extinct plant species or c) the right botanists haven't looked at the manuscript I mean there are also thousands of plant species in Turkey, so it's not possible for someone to know all of them or for all of them to be well documented. Especially, since the climate was different in the 1400s, possibly enough that there were different plant species growing in eastern Europe/middle East than in modern times. It's why having folks in multiple disciples work together is important!
i have a journal ive been keeping since 2020 completely in my own cipher with its own combinations of letters/symbols/grammar rules. this manuscript is aspirational
As someone who has studied alchemy for 15 years and Occultism for almost 10... My theory is that it was definitely written by an alchemist, as some of the implements in the book are old alchemical tools, such as an alembic. The variance of knowledge is exactly why it was coded, because back then there was little difference between medicine and magic and they feared persecution. I think the old Turkish alphabet was used to write phonetics, but the languages themselves are a mix of old German, Latin, probably some Greek in there too - which makes translation a difficult and arduous task. As for the plants? Either they are a species that was region specific and has since died off (more plausible than you think, especially for the time that we know the manuscript was penned) or some, if not all, were doodled in by a different hand that couldn't read the book and wanted to make it seem more mysterious. The green baths were very likely herbal / aromatic baths for health. We've had plumbing since ancient Roman times and one of the main sections is botany, it's really not that surprising or hard to see.
I was hoping they could use the carbon dating data to figure out where the book came from originally as that would be a huge clue to potentially identify the plants or language
@@gr33ngirlsea The chemical practices of Alchemy alone were indeed the precursor to modern chemistry, but viewing it through that lense alone ignores the heavily spiritual nuances that went with it and especially the coding they used. What do you think when you see a green lion eating the sun? The best answer is: there’s actually multiple answers to that, both chemically and spiritually. It could represent a violent force fueling your ego, or an acid dissolving a base. There’s endless examples of this. Multiple layers to everything you see or read.
@@billwhite515 I hope so! when I first watched this episode I had NO IDEA who that fuzzy little guy is. Now, after being caught up and on the second episode of s6. I MISSED SEEING THIS LIL BLUE DUDE IN REAL TIME!!!
As someone who did write a 'potions tome' with my sister, and grew up with said sister creating SEVERAL rune alphabets, I 100% believe that someone just made this book for funsies. It was someone's little Tolkein-esque hobby, a rich nerd - or a group of rich nerds! I'm a member of the SCA and a D&D player, so I know SO MANY PEOPLE who would get together to make up a language and a bunch of fantasy plants and astrological/alchemical stuff all in one big secret-language book.
@@crabinthetophat490 let a baguette get a little stale/ have some stale bread, cut into cubes, toss with oil, season with salt and pepper, and bake until nice and crispy!
There's a book called money's hidden magic, and it talks about how using some secret tehniques you can attract a lot of money, it's not some bullshit law of attraction, it's the real deal
Beinecke is such a beautiful library! The walls you can see in the back of that picture are very thin marble that allow light in while protecting the rare books from direct light. Such a wonderful space to be in.
I think it's odd that they said the plants were "unidentifiable". A lot of them bear clear resemblances to plants we have around today. For example, the blue flowers on the right at 30:04 look like they could be a type of wild geranium (the petal structure + leaf shape bear a close resemblance to Erodium "pickering pink", though the leaves aren't a perfect match - but I think, as Shane said, maybe the artist just wasn't super talented!) Even the "seymour-looking" plant at 3:58 has some real-life-plant qualities: the leaves remind me of the mother-of-thousands succulent (and, to speculate further... the eye - looking structure at the top could just be the artist's attempt at a top-down view of the plant. Again, not a very experienced artist, since they couldn't quite nail that change in perspective...!) curious what the text might reveal about the plants. I'm pretty confident they're just poorly drawn.
as a linguist i love this episode so much, ive researched this manuscript (and many others) so much and I’m forever telling myself that i’ll be able to translate this one day
The professor throwing handfulls of jellybeans at Ryan made me laugh probably harder than it should've. I come here for the history but I stay for these moments 😂
I found out about this manuscript thirty minutes ago. I needed to wash dishes so I looked for a video about it and y'all posted a video about the very thing only 16 hours ago. What a wacky, wild world we live in. Sometimes things just work out so beautifully.
I feel that in a similar way. This aftrernoon I met a man with the name Jacobus for the first time, and seeing in the video one the people who possessed the book before Voynitch was Jacobus Horcicky de Tepenec was a very odd coincidence for sure.
Shane and Ryan will go down in history as one of the best if not the best duos in all of RUclips history. The chemistry between these two is unmatched!
One of my life goals is to create a steange esoteric manuscript that baffles historians and the like for years to come. Just as a little treat for myself, you know?
Be interesting if someone could use a universe simulator and find out if there are any planets out there that would have the constellation patterns drawn in the book as its sky.
I personally think it’s an alchemical treatise. It would explain the enigmatic images which to me seem to be tinged with esoteric symbolism. Unfortunately a sizable number of the pages are missing so we may be missing several more alchemical references.
Tbh the more I learn about this book the more it just seems like the workbook of someone who could have been a scholar that knew multiple languages and wrote down their notes/observations in a mixture of different languages that made sense to THEM and no one else. As other comments pointed out, the fact that its even written down AND drawn with paint with this many pages at a time when paper and leather was incredibly expensive shows that it was written by someone who was either wealthy, well traveled, highly educated, etc. It wasn't uncommon for the wealthy and educated to know multiple languages and its possible that the person who wrote it combined different letters and structures from whatever languages they knew in what could've been their personal notebook, which would of course be confusing for an outsider looking in. As for the plants its also possible that as Shane pointed out, the person might just not have been that great of an artist. Considering that the other book sections range from types of higher education topics of the time period like biology and cosmology that aren't artistically focused, the original author could have been drawing from observation/memory to their best ability and the images just don't look exact (not to mention some plant species could simply have gone extinct and not been well documented, fires were pretty easy started back then to cause a lot of lost knowledge as well). More than likely the person wasn't wasting extra paper space just to practice drawing flowers and had to free-hand a lot of the pictures so they're very distorted. Just my thoughts!
as a turkish person: the thing with "old turkish" is that because turkic people lived in tribes and were nomadic, there are many versions of it. sure they are similar but sometimes there are some things that make understanding eachother difficult. not to mention there might be dead branches of it from tribes that migrated somewhere and died out
These deep dive videos on random topics. Remind me of my speech 1i1 class when I first started college. We would go up and just talk about and explain random topics that we usually were really passionate about.
13:04 OMG! I was just thinking “Boy, the prof would be great in an episode like this!!” Note: I did not get a great look at the thumbnail before clicking this video…
Heres the thing about the Manuscript. If you are a creative writer and you enjoy hallucinogens, you will eventually create something like the Voynich Manuscript. I once attempted to write an article while high on mushrooms (it was actually part of the research for the article) it started off well and fine, but ended in me rambling about Lilies and making drawings that looked less like Lilies and more like spiders on sticks, like the shape of the lilies were not even close! If I had to write it in handwriting I guarantee I would not have been able to read most of it
This does't explain the fact that the language it was written in follows linguistic rules and what kind of shroom trip would last long enough in order for someone to write and illustrate more than 200 pages ?
@@sarahm3674 i mean if it was written in a language thats just sadly been forgotten to time (something possibly related to old turkish) it could just be someone who was crazy or did enough drugs to make them that way writing and illustrating what they think is a logical book
Yes! you're onto something here I think haha. Honestly I was thinking the same thing! I took a quick look at the PDF of this thing while watching the video, and thought the person who made those plants probably loved smoking some plants or eating shrooms like you suggested✨ I wonder if any of the people who researched it have said something about that haha, now i wanna dig deep into this😂 (I encourage everyone to take a look at the whole manuscript, these drawings are honestly so creative. Some vaginas in the roots of one plant, maybe that's why that one dude thought it was about women's health haha.)
@@sarahm3674 what kind of trip? a multi day trip with several doses. Especially if the hallucinogen is in something like a wine or brew that you need to stay hydrated. Like microdosing but you might not even be aware that's what's happening, because all you did was buy the new alcy drink.
@@sigma9-11I've seen arguments mostly that the language is Turkic, Finno-Ugric or some other North Eurasian language. It seems to share the traits of these language families: agglutination, use of suffixes over prefixes, vowel harmony, etc.
Sometimes I wonder if the Voynich Manuscript is just one of the world's oldest preserved trolls. I mean, it's possible that in the early 15th century Joseph Schmozeph commissioned the book just to mess with his buddy, or his enemy, or the church, etc.
The Voynich Manuscript is one of my favorite mysteries! This series is so rad!!! 😭 I really did not forsee “Shane twerks on European book owners” on my bingo card…
What I would like....is if someone could use a universe simulator to figure out if there are any planets out there where their night sky matches the constellations drawn in the book.
@@SoManyRandomRamblings hi, I see your suggestion popping up. Maybe someone already did. I would like to think that if extraordinary Minds were tackling this puzzle..then..yep..been there.. tried that. But still cool suggestion, since i haven't knowledge of any of this, one would hope they tried everything available in our " still learning to crawl" time on this planet.✌
@@87ventus I think with the vast options out there a human couldn't get the task done...too many planets. But maybe someone will know the proper way to ask AI so that it doesn't fabricate anything, cuz AI could run through options faster than we could.
When I was little I would glue random stuff into a journal that I thought would be useful. House plans, fashion, recipes, etc. I'm gonna just imagine this was some persons everything journal
😊 I'm so glad the professor showed up for an episode. It kind of feels fitting for him to show up in one of these. I can't wait to see the next season for puppy history.
ahhhh Shane thank you for talking about this!!! I went to school specifically for rare book librarianship so hearing you talk about limp vellum bindings and folios was so wonderful!!! I loved this!!
i was so excited when i saw what this episode is about bc teenage me was so bothered about this weird manuscript! glad to see you guys tackle it PLUS THE PROFESSOR?!
can you please do episodes on the following: -Where is Canadian Clubs hidden whiskey? -Where are the hidden Gems of the Book "The Secret"? -The Kentucky Alien invasion in the 1950's -The mysterious birds of Audubon's "Birds of America" book -The Montana Hyena -The mysterious abandonment of Portlock Alaska -The theories of what is behind the Missing 411 cases in the US. -Kasperov vs Deep Blue computer -What hit Officer Val Johnsons Car? -Why are there Piranhas in Americas Waterways? -Dalnegorsk Spaceship remnants. -What did Captain Mantell encounter over FT. Knox? -Who were the Sea People that collapsed the Bronze Age Civilizations? -The strange encounter between Woodrow Derenburger & Indrid Cold. -Did Patience Worth write poetry from beyond the grave? -The Green Children of Woolpit -What flew over Washington DC in July of 1952? -Shag Harbor incident -Flight 2501 & the Michigan Triangle -Meat Rain of Coach farm -The Clairvoyance of Lady Wonder -Americas First bank heist with Pat Lyons -The blue people of Kentucky -What guards the treasure of the Superstition Mountains? -What scared the Herrman family in 1958? -Ted Serios' "Thoughtographs". -What causes the "Third Man Effect"? -Where is the City of El Dorado? -Where is the Gold of the Cara Nevada? -Could Charles Hatfield make it rain? -How did Alfred Hobbs pick the Bramah lock? -What caused the sinking of the M/S Estonia? -What was the substance that inspired "The Blob". -What caused the "La Pain Maudit" incident? -Who was the Real Shakespeare? -The Beast of Bladenboro (I especially want Shane to do this one).
Me thinks you've been compiling this list for a while..lol. I think I'll need to screenshot it and start checking out some of these for myself as you've piqued my curiosity 😘👌 cheers
all super good topics!! i had a genetics class and in it we had an assignment about the blue fugates of kentucky and they are super interesting. its been a while since i was in that class but i believe their blue skin was a recessive gene that caused them to not have a specific enzyme in their blood/body, which made them appear blue. the reason there was so many blue people in that family was because of inbreeding. they lived in a small community in a very mountainous area so they were super secluded and the family ended up inbreeding a lot. but that meant the gene would be passed around a lot more, so it was more likely that people would be born with the homozygous recessive genotype, which made them blue!!
Booo i just wanna say how much its ridiculous this type of content needs a whole LA office and tv level productions. Its a projector and cork board. Cmon guys 😭
Wow, special guest The Professor?! Shane and the Professor on the same show?! Finally. Also, Shane quietly pushing his glasses back up like the biggest nerd in the room sent me.
The most compelling explanation I've seen is that it was an early attempt at written language by a New World tribe whose language has since been lost to time (I remember seeing a native Nahua speaker saying that several of the plants were familiar and the words seemed pretty close to a lot of Nahuatl, the language of the Aztecs).
There’s no way this in Mesoamerican. Nothing of it looks remotely close to any Mesoamerican cosmovision, style or remotely close to Nahuatl. Plus yeah, dates don’t match.
@@nataliadelvalle125 Radiocarbon dating puts the creation of the text to the literal time of first contact. The cosmology looks a tremendous amount like several Otomi beliefs (specifically regarding the flayed people), and the style is very similar to what early Spanish colonists were using at the time. You can scream "NO NO NO" all you want but there's plenty of evidence that needs to be ignored to say that.
@@Oh-Grr nothing of this is true. First of all, the manuscript is from the beginning of the XV century, while first European-Mesoamerican contact is end of XV century and beginning of XVI. You’re almost 100 years off. Plus it looks nothing like manuscripts done by Spanish colonizers. The similarities stop at the fact that they’re manuscripts with illustrations. Relating it with Otomí cosmovision is also a big big stretch. The part of the manuscript that shows cosmovision is showing something REALLY different from Otomí.
@@Oh-Grr nothing of this is true. First of all, this manuscript is from the beginning of the XV century, while first European-Mesoamerican contact was at the end of XV century, and for the communities you’re talking about it’s XVI century. You’re off for about 100 years. It looks nothing like manuscripts done by Spanish colonists. The similarities stop after the fact that they are manuscripts with illustrations. Saying it looks like Otomí cosmovision is a big big stretch. The part of the manuscript that shows “cosmovision” is totally different from otomi’s.
The professor and Shane talking to each other is so great. About the book text following language rules... Lewis Carroll wrote Jabberwocky full of fake words. He used language conventions to make them sound like real words. Could the writer have done something similar?
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Ryan’s ability to make Shane short circuit will never not be fantastic
My brain could not even say "shane short circuit" correctly. What a tongue twister!
Honestly, they do that to each other and that’s what makes them so great lol
@@eminakostic3406did you sound like the doctor from Horton?
theory 6: this is just the world building journal for some medieval monk’s ttrpg campaign
As Shane was describing it, that was like my first thought!
"Wow, this thing should be the center of a DnD campaign!"
yeah the whole thing gives off tolkien-level world building vibes
That's always been my thought, too. Since I heard it I was like "oh I've always wanted to make a book like that with fake fantasy plants and stuff as like, an art project, but I was too busy with school and also video games exist and I'm busy. Hm, people had nothing to do back then. This could be just a bored rich person's hyperfixation project."
voynich was the original DM
Yeah my first theory was “this looks like the illustrations from a Brandon Sanderson novel.” My money’s on a clever work of fiction with a very early conlang.
While I don't want to squash anyone's theory about the Voynich Manuscript's origins or meaning, I think that it's important to remember that this book is written not on paper but vellum. Vellum is a maternal made from animal skins and is essentially a highly processed type of leather. It was incredibly time and resource intensive to make vellum, causing the creation of this or any type of book to be fantastically expensive, and only the wealthiest members of society would be able to commission a book of this nature. Not to mention the watercolor type paint used to color in the images would also have required special dyes and pigments to create the variety of colors seen today. It's also important to remember that in the middle ages when this manuscript was made the ability to read was in and of itself a rare and precious knowledge that only certain people had access to. The commonly held theory that the manuscript is a phonetic mis-mash of multiple European languages would have required an even greater and more extensive knowledge of languages. In essence the only people with the money, resources, knowledge and connections to create such a manuscript would have to be one of the most elite people in all of Medieval Europe. Thus, I think it's safe to say that the Voynich Manuscript was not an ancient sketch book or grocery list as much fun as that might be to imagine.
such an underrated comment
@@AlinaProbably Lol, Thanks for the support! I learned a lot about medieval manuscript making in a college art history class, so this knowledge was just sitting in my head not doing anything. Hopefully my comment gave people some useful background information for understanding the historical context of the Voynich manuscript's creation.
So if only the most elite people could have access to the marierials and knowledge to make this, would it be safe to say that it was some rich person from the middle ages was basically making stuff up in this book as just a form of fiction/art?
@@cegspace5033 While I personally find that to be unlikely, Elon Musk spent 44 billion dollars just to run Twitter into the ground, so who knows?
so rich bored person? i can see that over a poor or middle class person
PROFESSOR?!
@TeodoraTacderenleave you are not wanted with your shit
@TeodoraTacderenI know where you live
i hardly know 'er!!!
Surprised Shane knows about the professor
@@strawberrywheels my absolute favorite joke
the professor actually wrote it for fun and to fuck with the future historians and reincarnation of the genie who wants him dead.
I believe this more than any theory Shane presented
The lore thickens...
@rurang_ii there is no lore!
Yes. 👏
@@madisong5054there is lore. There is lore. There is lore (this is a joke).
My toxic trait is thinking that I'll immediately be able to decipher it the moment i read it
Real tbh
medieval transcription class at dutch university was no joke - someone who took the class for 10 weeks.
You're not alone my dear 🤣🤣🤦♀️
I think it was written by a group of women. Herbs, astrogeology, birthing and bathing rituals... And this one person I just spoke with said it isn't written language, but music notes.
I have leafed through my copy, and inserted pressed flowers and foliage, and written names of the plants I think are illustrated. The last part of the book is all written, so it is hard to even speculate on it... I could talk for literal MONTHS about this book.
until n unless u can decode the meaning of a sentence written in any modern language that u dont understand, like mandarin or anything, idk how u even feel like u can decipher that..
The professor showing up was so unexpected. I missed that little blue guy.
Now we got Shane and the professor in the same room finally
Me tooo.
@@iridescentsolaceYes!!!!
@@iridescentsolace Truely is the proof that they are not the same person.
The glory of RUclips is that you can always go back and watch all the professor's videos from the beginning. Go, child! Start your journey anew!
I like the implication that Shane can just manifest the Professor like a JJBA stand.
Reading this made me choke on my water
the stand user could be anyone
STARRR PROFESSOR
This implies that Shane is a villain, since the Professor has time related powers.
Tbh he is a JoJo character
0:00 Met Lisa Fagin Davis today at Purdue University during her talk on parchment and manuscripts.
After the awesome talk, my daughter and I went up and asked her what she thought of this episode. Yes, she has watched it!!
She thought the episode was well done, commented that she loved the show, and said she was probably going to SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR CHANNEL!!! How cool is that?!?!
We talked to her about your show and the Vonyinch Manuscript for a long time. Lisa is incredibly witty and has an amazing sense of humor. You guys should invite her on as a guest for Puppet History!!! ❤
OMG THATS AWES9ME, YALL WE GOTTA BOOST THIS COMMENTS SO THE GHOUL BOYS SEE IT
BOOSTTTT
Booooost
So did she say why they didn't translate the remaining 70% ?
Or what the first 30% already translated said?
I'm glad to hear it. I just reached out to her today.
seeing the professor in the thumbnail makes me happy
Same🤧
I see Professor, I clicked.
@TeodoraTacderendude leave
Came here to comment just this! I'm like OH I SEE MY BOY!!
@@zaBeheaded Do not respond @ bots. Report spam or ignore. Interaction only does them good.
We often forget that people from way back were just like us. Who would write something like this today? A book with fictional plants, creating a new language, coming up with recipes and whatnot, and some story about women bathing in a weird pool, etc. Sounds like world building to me. So my theory is that it was written by someone creating a fantasy world in their head, either with the intention of writing a book or a play, or just for their own escapism/art.
I was thinking the same thing. It is definitely reminiscent of seeing Jo Rowling's story mapping of HP.
Yeah but you live in the era of FDA or an equivalent, hospitals, doctors, pharmacies, etc. imagine a world that couldn’t even fathom anything like that and you only communicate with most people in passing and you can’t read but there isn’t much to read outside the convents.
People did this to sell their snake oil treatments and it was everywhere and people were sick. Imagine not getting dental treatments when you have a cavity and you don’t know what where why how and if you questioned a known professional you could be accused of blasphemy. You didn’t want to be accused of that. I would be terrified to be trapped in a time where every ailment was treated with blood letting and anything else the person believed would work like dung poultices, praying, raw chicken livers, etc. medieval medicine was terrifying. Honestly, like many people today, I would have died as a child without antibiotics. 😅
Yeah, I also like the theory that it's actually nothing serious or "fake", but it was made by ancient people for fun or jokes, like a comic book of the time
this !!
The difference is that back then almost nobody could read or write. Only the very elite of society. Paper and ink was very expensive and hard to get. Stories/plays weren't written down, there were very few fiction books - storytelling was all done orally, passed down through generations and across borders. Paper was reserved for science, law and religion. Whilst that theory could be right, I think it's unlikely that a scientist/lord/whoever would waste resources like that. The plants don't look fictional to me, I think it's more of a 'we can't comprehensively say what plant this is' rather than 'yes this plant is fictional'. At a glance some of them are familiar, one looked just like ginger roots. Alchemists were known to invent languages to keep their secrets safe.
I'm going with a combination of 'invented language' and 'old Turkish', probably a language invented by an alchemist using old Turkish.
I do love that I was half listening to this in the background and it wasn’t the musical sting that alerted me to The Professor’s arrival, but the mild difference between his voice and Shane’s 😂
Fun fact, I took a Medieval Manuscripts course on fragmentology with Lisa Fagin Davis (it's [FEY-gin], by the way, as fun as FAH-gin is to say lol). She was a fantastic professor, we learned to recreate the order of a fragmented manuscript and assemble the pages digitally to recreate it. She also did whole day on the Voynich Manuscript, so I was thrilled to see this thumbnail! She gave us printouts of some of the pages, and showed us where we could get T-shirt with Voynich Manuscript designs haha
Loved that class! So cool to see her in this episode :) One of the best courses I took in grad school!
You can get T-shirts with Voynich Manuscript designs on them?!
Same! I had no idea the T-shirts were a thing, and now I need them lol. It's so cool! @@IntotheBangtanUniverseWormhole
imma need to know where we can get those shirts my guy
That is so cool!
that sounds awesome. my only question is what major had a class like that a part of it?
the little professor behind shane in the thumbnail truly makes them look like father and son
real "excuse me! he asked for no pickles!" energies
Don't talk to me or my son ever again
About the plants in the book, keep in mind that there are many extinct species. It is very possible those were real plants once upon a time, but died out as the planet's climate changed or for other reasons. Interesting topic. I hope it gets fully translated someday, so we'll learn the book's secrets.
One thing shane didnt mention in the vid (i think) that I did find on the wiki page is that theres hints to it being in italy (the art style, drawings of villages) and the drawings also show a vulcano. Theres a bunch of italian cities buried under vulcano ashes, and entire islands can be buried & burned. Makes me think of the plants in the book and island being documented, the drawings of women also seem like theyre in a bathhouse, even next to the drawings of women some tower like structures seem to appear, you could also see towers in the map drawing. Though the island with a vulcano and plants theory is my own interpretation and not something i found on the wiki
This is the first time the professor and Shane have shared the screen!!! This is a monumental moment in watcher history!
I wanna add that alchemist texts and art look like a randomizer of different objects, symbols, and animals. But it was a form of code for alchemists to gatekeep the profession, so knowing people could look at the photo and know that the animal meant this element and a symbol for Jupiter meant another element. I could believe this was a coded illustrations and language that has since been lost, as we still don't fully know all of what alchemists texts mean even once translated to modern english
oh, that is very interesting, thank you for sharing
To "Gatekeep" the profession, no.
To hide from the Imperialist Catholics, yes.
Never knew that about alchemist now I wanna look into it more it sounds so mysterious, thanks for sharing!
My thoughts exactly. The fact that ao many alchemists owned the manuscript and the illustrations, symbols, and code made me think it was an alchemical manuscript. Many books on alchemy show the symbolic nature and symbolism that most alchemists used to depict the practice. Carl Jung even had many dissertations on the subject, which made me think this was alchemical
Lisa Fagin-Davis is one of the best part of Voynich research I swear she has like a red telephone next to her bed that rings every time someone makes a new insane claim about the manuscript so she can dunk on it with lightning speed and accuracy
Historians will call them "live-in companions"
Gals being pals
*gasp* and they were live-in companions...
@@duraman2010 Oh my god, they were live-in companions!
Its always live in companions, cousins, best friends, never the truth
I thought it was the classic secretary boiking their boss, but it was secretary boinking the wife all along
the out of context opening is one of my favourite parts of these videos lol
also, its nice to finally see the professor and Shane interact together, maybe if puppet history gets another season, he wont be as estranged of a producer, and will be in an episode :)
13:57 "I've never had direct contact with him before" - this is actually true, since (SPOILERS) the 'professor' Shane interacted with in S5 was technically the Substitute. I appreciate them respecting the continuity of the PH lore.
i had a lyft driver in boston a couple years ago who was researching this in her spare time because, she said, no one was willing to give out grants for it anymore, but she thought she'd cracked it. she was telling me that she figured out it's an ancient gaelic navigation manual and the book includes details that were necessary for a traveler. i was kind of wondering if she was right and i'd see her at the big reveal
I'm trying to figure out how, during the course of a Lyft ride, you got on the topic of the Voynich Manuscripts.
I take Lyfts and Ubers on a weekly basis & you'd be surprised the topics of conversation that get talked about.
@@GreedRunsall she was taking me to a history class, and she kind of took that fact and ran with it. "you've never heard of the voynich manuscript?!"
That's such a random and interesting interaction. Much more interesting than talking about the weather lol
I m preety sure they desiphered it already jebus.
Bath n such stuff manual😂
professor meeting shane is the crossover of the century
You know what my favourite theory is for this? Someone who was clearly experienced with botany and pharmaceutics ended up creating a fantasy book for some roleplaying sessions, for themselves as a project, or whatever else.
A very expensive roleplaying session
@@sagarnegi9464I mean, I'd imagine it could only be a rich person if they had the means and time to study plants/medicine, along with having an extensive role-playing hobby.
@@em5522 Yup, only the rich can afford these books back then let alone colored ones like the manuscript
is now the time where I mention that Tumblr staff ran an ARG for like three years which used an alphabet created from the Voynich Manuscript lol
EDIT: i typed an entire explanation in the comments and apparently it vanished so here goes:
basically, tumblr staff used a blog which posted screenshots from Guy Fieri's tv show with hints and clues to solving an ARG where we had to help out Leonora Carrington (an actual surrealist artist) and her friends Kati Horna and Remedios Varo as they found their way through a fictional Flavortown, and some of the websites and hints we went to and received were written in an alphabet the staff created from the Voynich Manuscript! it only took us a couple of months to solve that time around, but then they did a PART TWO (this time based around Italo Calvino's Invisible Cities) and it took us a couple of years; we only solved it about a month ago!
Guys, it was a whole thing. People were sent books in Voynich, clues in boxes of dirt. We had to look at steganography, find coordinates on a map. Tumblr even had a musical album produced with hints and clues for parts of the ARG that included an album cover with a QR code. It was a Whole Thing.
yes it is
Im begging you to elaborate omg
Tell me more.
You can’t just say that and not elaborate fam come on
@@gur3478 Hate when people do this. It's like blue balling the readers.
Whoever is doing the motion graphics on this episode really upped their game. That timeline sequence is like the perfect Mashup of Puppet History and something like VOX would do. Love!
as a linguist and someone studying natural language processing, I appreciate y'alls discussing this & its linguistic significance and linguistic studies of the manuscript!
I took a linguist class in college. Never again. Idk how u guys do that shit bro I was SO fucking confused the entire class the science of language and how it comes to be is a science I never wanted to know existed
@xXtuscanator22Xx lmao I love it but I appreciate your experience. There are some things I feel similarly about.
@@rofljen666 It’s literally like learning an alien language like idk how tf u guys decipher shit. When I say I barely passed I mean I BARELY passed literally was ab to switch it to P/F on god 😭
The Voynich Manuscript is MY Roman Empire!!!! I think about this all the time and I’m so thrilled you guys covered it!!!
Same....I think it would be quite something if someone could use a universe simulator to find out if any planets out there would have the same constellation pattern as depicted in the book.
Hey same. Awesome
YES. This drives me crazy!! I'm a anthropology major so I'm suuuper interested in history and stuff. I'd sell my actual soul to know what the manuscript is about.
@@lolanola1783 Let's make a deal... 🤣
@@jarnold1789 I don't really care if it ends up being nothing more than like, an ancient encyclopedia or something. It's just about KNOWING. I want to KNOW what it is, I don't really care if it's all that interesting or not TvT
Librarian here. The Beinecke Library is an academic library, so one of their main purposes is to facilitate research. They'll hold a ton of different items including books, manuscripts, professional journals, and bunches of historical documents and items that wouldn't be books.
So, this channel appears in my recommended every now and then, and I just have to say something: Ryan and Shane have such a great repor with each other. It's so clear they're actually friends and can joke around with each other like that, it is honestly a breath of fresh air compared to other channels talking about simmilar things.
It's always so wonderful when you guys cover the things I stayed up late as a teen to look into and wonder about.
🥺🥰
I think it would be nifty, if someone could use a universe simulator to figure out if there are any planets out there that would have the same constellation pattern as shown in the book.
Would be funny if it were made by someone who never learned to read, but liked to pretend they could.
As a book conservator, I’m so happy you talked about the binding too! Super cool!!
Heck yes!!
it is such a blessing that these 2 still make content together🙏
Now realizing Shane’s genie character in Puppet History isn’t a character. He did actually wished himself to be a genie
Ryan was so ready with the Jafar argument lol. He's thought about this
I love that these two dudes chill in a basement and talk about history and film it. Such a random idea it actually works.
And a random puppet appears out of nowhere to annoy one of them.
Oh god, I remember when you guys were on Buzzfeed unsolved, you two were, for me, the soul of that company.
so i just listened to one of Ardıç's extensive interviews about this manuscript and he says he was able to translate more than 300 words (a lot of them in direct correlation with the drawings provided) with old turkish languages and says his goal is to translate the entire thing. But unfortunately our country doesn't provide much support on history/language related sciences so he has been doing this only whenever he was available.
It is unbelievable how much he was able to translate and as someone who understands a couple of turkish languages his explanations and direct translations blew my mind. How has this been such a huge mystery... even i was able to decipher a couple of words with just the alphabet he provided and using historical knowledge of our culture. There's apparently some pages with consistent rhymes too so whoever wrote this was a literary genius too apparently lmao. Not to mention in no point of this 240 pages of hand written/drawn manuscript NO CORRECTIONS WERE MADE no scrathing words out or crossing them. The writer either didn't give a crap about the mistakes or didn't make any mistakes while writing which is just insane in my opinion(like hell i make mistakes writing my own name sometimes)
anyways all in all this was a very cool food for thought, i hope this won't become my new hyperfixation
(also Ahmet and his sons apparently wrote an article about this called 'Voynich Manuscript Revealed' u can read it if u like but 44 pages sounded too much as a 3am read for me lol)
I love this format it allows both Ryan and Shane to play the part of heckler and host
Historian who has studied European medieval manuscripts here:
Its a guide book to life in general in a dialect/language no one speaks anymore. Its looks like a mixture of French and the Old Turkish which was presented in the show. Turkey was and still is right in the middle of trade between Europe and The East. Historically, Turkey was also in the middle of wars invasion and all sorts since the Greeks. Not all merchants and soldiers went home. Many stayed because they fell in love with someone, may have left the military dishonorably and couldn't at the threat of death, or didn't go back at all. Now this being made in the early/mid 1400s in an interesting time. Its roughly 200 years after the last crusade. The 9th one not the movie. The crusade brought mostly german and french European soldiers and monks through Turkey to get to Jerusalem. Over 9 crusades that last spanning over 400 years creates a lot of influence. Along, with the crusade there were also religion missionaries that made there own trips to spread Christianity during this timeframe. Christianity was spreading through Europe like a wild fire through teachings and other not so gentle ways. This is important because there were very few people who could actually read and write at this time. Those that could were scholars who were likely also monks, royalty, and monks, and monks taught royalty. So, this was probably written by a monk who transplant or joined a monastery and spoke/wrote in an old dialect of french and Turkish that is no longer spoken.
Yale photocopied the manuscript in full and you can look/download a free pdf. I simply googled it. The first 30 pages present as a forger's guide of what to eat, what not to eat, what you can eat but has to be specialty be made. The vegetation in it looks like root veg such as beats, carrots, and sumac. These are and been very present in Turkish cuisine. The pages shown in the show what appears to ancient Roman baths which would have been in ruins, but maybe some where still active, or that's a history section. Either it appears as a guide of benefits or what they used for. The cosmos illustration: humans had known, especially eastern cultures knew the planets circled the sun. This wasn't news, but ya know white people claim that they found everything first even if it was 200+ years later 🙄.
The ones of pregnant women, well people had a lot of thoughts on that back, but monks where your spiritual guide through life and some would might guide a woman through childbirth, bless the child, and some were scholars and doctors who would document things such childbirth, astrology, gardening, just life in general.
Also, cow and goat are prominent in Turkish food. Perhaps there was a celebration or festival for the goats before becoming dinner? Ritual isn't out of the question. People during pre industrial times we're very serious about their animals. If was a live or death manner on how livestock was taken care of and their health because often those animals feed and produce milk, cheese, eggs, furs, and leather for the whole village. So very important! Cows are important to mention because one there were enough cows for the author to use cow skin as paper, and the person or patron was very wealthy. If it was monk perhaps we can find records of the wealthiest monasteries in Turkey. I do wonder if the author was Muslim then we could look into Mosque during this time? So, basically its not aliens or conspiracies just lost history that we might be able to find if we use context clues and critical thinking. That is mainly aimed at scholars who are over thinking it.
Go look at it. There's literally a drawing of an artichoke that are very prominent in Turkey!
Thanks for reading my novel.
Thank you for this novel! I agree that a lot of the plants look familiar enough that they are some combo of a) the drawings don't give enough minor details for botanists to be confident in identifying them. b) extinct plant species or c) the right botanists haven't looked at the manuscript
I mean there are also thousands of plant species in Turkey, so it's not possible for someone to know all of them or for all of them to be well documented. Especially, since the climate was different in the 1400s, possibly enough that there were different plant species growing in eastern Europe/middle East than in modern times.
It's why having folks in multiple disciples work together is important!
Your comment deserves more likes. Thank you very much for sharing all this knowledge!
The Professor tossing a full handful of jellybeans at Ryan might be one of the funniest things that Watcher has ever filmed 😂
I wish that was talked about more lol. It was such a forceful throw
"I'm no better than Jafar" is an epic out of context quote to throw around at randoms who don't understand lol
i have a journal ive been keeping since 2020 completely in my own cipher with its own combinations of letters/symbols/grammar rules. this manuscript is aspirational
As someone who has studied alchemy for 15 years and Occultism for almost 10...
My theory is that it was definitely written by an alchemist, as some of the implements in the book are old alchemical tools, such as an alembic. The variance of knowledge is exactly why it was coded, because back then there was little difference between medicine and magic and they feared persecution. I think the old Turkish alphabet was used to write phonetics, but the languages themselves are a mix of old German, Latin, probably some Greek in there too - which makes translation a difficult and arduous task.
As for the plants? Either they are a species that was region specific and has since died off (more plausible than you think, especially for the time that we know the manuscript was penned) or some, if not all, were doodled in by a different hand that couldn't read the book and wanted to make it seem more mysterious.
The green baths were very likely herbal / aromatic baths for health. We've had plumbing since ancient Roman times and one of the main sections is botany, it's really not that surprising or hard to see.
i actually really like this theory! i think it's incredibly possible that this is what happened. good thinking!! :)
Where did you study it? You have a legitimate diploma?
What do you do with 15 years worth of alchemical knowledge, did you make gold yet?
I was hoping they could use the carbon dating data to figure out where the book came from originally as that would be a huge clue to potentially identify the plants or language
@@gr33ngirlsea The chemical practices of Alchemy alone were indeed the precursor to modern chemistry, but viewing it through that lense alone ignores the heavily spiritual nuances that went with it and especially the coding they used.
What do you think when you see a green lion eating the sun? The best answer is: there’s actually multiple answers to that, both chemically and spiritually. It could represent a violent force fueling your ego, or an acid dissolving a base. There’s endless examples of this. Multiple layers to everything you see or read.
the professor cameo ???
we live in the professors world, it’s more like a shane and ryan cameo 😂
I wonder if it's a hint of another season of puppet history
@@billwhite515 I hope so! when I first watched this episode I had NO IDEA who that fuzzy little guy is. Now, after being caught up and on the second episode of s6. I MISSED SEEING THIS LIL BLUE DUDE IN REAL TIME!!!
As someone who did write a 'potions tome' with my sister, and grew up with said sister creating SEVERAL rune alphabets, I 100% believe that someone just made this book for funsies. It was someone's little Tolkein-esque hobby, a rich nerd - or a group of rich nerds! I'm a member of the SCA and a D&D player, so I know SO MANY PEOPLE who would get together to make up a language and a bunch of fantasy plants and astrological/alchemical stuff all in one big secret-language book.
love when one of the weird guys manages to weird out the other weird guy. great stuff
Shane offering to make Ryan homemade croutons is such sweet true friendship. Homemade croutons are so good
How to make?
@@crabinthetophat490 let a baguette get a little stale/ have some stale bread, cut into cubes, toss with oil, season with salt and pepper, and bake until nice and crispy!
There's a book called money's hidden magic, and it talks about how using some secret tehniques you can attract a lot of money, it's not some bullshit law of attraction, it's the real deal
where can we buy it?
"To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitious and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental."
sneaky Red Dwarf ref in the comments, i like it
Thank you so much for the RD love 😂
Beinecke is such a beautiful library! The walls you can see in the back of that picture are very thin marble that allow light in while protecting the rare books from direct light. Such a wonderful space to be in.
There are 14.9 million books there.
The professor makes the show so much better than the others. They should bring him in more..like every episode. We want more Professor!!!!!
I think it's odd that they said the plants were "unidentifiable". A lot of them bear clear resemblances to plants we have around today. For example, the blue flowers on the right at 30:04 look like they could be a type of wild geranium (the petal structure + leaf shape bear a close resemblance to Erodium "pickering pink", though the leaves aren't a perfect match - but I think, as Shane said, maybe the artist just wasn't super talented!) Even the "seymour-looking" plant at 3:58 has some real-life-plant qualities: the leaves remind me of the mother-of-thousands succulent (and, to speculate further... the eye - looking structure at the top could just be the artist's attempt at a top-down view of the plant. Again, not a very experienced artist, since they couldn't quite nail that change in perspective...!) curious what the text might reveal about the plants. I'm pretty confident they're just poorly drawn.
I was trying to figure out what the first plant reminded me of, it does look similar to mother of thousands
Yes, and at 14:55 that's clearly an opium poppy plant. The leaves were pretty basic, but the pods are plain as day.
There's also very clearly mandrake root
me trying to draw flowers in the biology class lol
There we what seemed to be carrots and root plants on one page as well I’m kinda confused on what they’re saying
"I'm no better than Jafar" and a Bergara bucket full of Shane Snack (aka Shane being a snack) better become fanart soon
one moment shane is clowning ryan for not reading books, the next hes offering to make him homemade croutons. Always a rollercoaster with these two
as a linguist i love this episode so much, ive researched this manuscript (and many others) so much and I’m forever telling myself that i’ll be able to translate this one day
Whats the closest guess to the language?
Like the consensus of the linguistic community?
@@thejason755no one is for sure but the closest they've guessed is traditional Hebrew or traditional bohemian but in code as to keep it more sacred.
I like how the professor pops up from the ground but then just walks out stage left
The professor throwing handfulls of jellybeans at Ryan made me laugh probably harder than it should've.
I come here for the history but I stay for these moments 😂
I found out about this manuscript thirty minutes ago. I needed to wash dishes so I looked for a video about it and y'all posted a video about the very thing only 16 hours ago. What a wacky, wild world we live in. Sometimes things just work out so beautifully.
I feel that in a similar way. This aftrernoon I met a man with the name Jacobus for the first time, and seeing in the video one the people who possessed the book before Voynitch was Jacobus Horcicky de Tepenec was a very odd coincidence for sure.
I need to wash dishes too WHAT ARE THE ODDS
THE PROFESSOR POPPING IN MADE MY ENTIRE DAY I LOVE THE LITTLE BLUE GUY SO MUCH
9:15 hits different after their recent goodbye youtube video
Shane and Ryan will go down in history as one of the best if not the best duos in all of RUclips history. The chemistry between these two is unmatched!
For me, Rhett and Link will always be in first spot, but Shane and Ryan are def up there!
A wizard named backmeat is the most Terry pratchett thing I’ve ever heard in my life.
One of my life goals is to create a steange esoteric manuscript that baffles historians and the like for years to come. Just as a little treat for myself, you know?
Same. If my burial doesn’t confound and fascinate future academics and lead to furious scholarly debate, I will simply not die.
Back then I thought that this book was never meant to be deciphered because it was either a grimoire, or book from another world.
Be interesting if someone could use a universe simulator and find out if there are any planets out there that would have the constellation patterns drawn in the book as its sky.
I personally think it’s an alchemical treatise. It would explain the enigmatic images which to me seem to be tinged with esoteric symbolism. Unfortunately a sizable number of the pages are missing so we may be missing several more alchemical references.
Maybe it just comes from an alternate universe where everyone understands it. 😉
Would be funny if someone made it just to mess with people. Hey bro, look at my cool drawings. What do the words mean? Nothin.
James Joyce's Wake comes to mind (HAH) @@Lilnaomi3
4:29 I like to imagine that Shane, off camera, got a laser scope to force Ryan to answer his question.
Tbh the more I learn about this book the more it just seems like the workbook of someone who could have been a scholar that knew multiple languages and wrote down their notes/observations in a mixture of different languages that made sense to THEM and no one else. As other comments pointed out, the fact that its even written down AND drawn with paint with this many pages at a time when paper and leather was incredibly expensive shows that it was written by someone who was either wealthy, well traveled, highly educated, etc. It wasn't uncommon for the wealthy and educated to know multiple languages and its possible that the person who wrote it combined different letters and structures from whatever languages they knew in what could've been their personal notebook, which would of course be confusing for an outsider looking in.
As for the plants its also possible that as Shane pointed out, the person might just not have been that great of an artist. Considering that the other book sections range from types of higher education topics of the time period like biology and cosmology that aren't artistically focused, the original author could have been drawing from observation/memory to their best ability and the images just don't look exact (not to mention some plant species could simply have gone extinct and not been well documented, fires were pretty easy started back then to cause a lot of lost knowledge as well). More than likely the person wasn't wasting extra paper space just to practice drawing flowers and had to free-hand a lot of the pictures so they're very distorted. Just my thoughts!
There is no show that cannot be improved by the presence of the Professor.
as a turkish person: the thing with "old turkish" is that because turkic people lived in tribes and were nomadic, there are many versions of it. sure they are similar but sometimes there are some things that make understanding eachother difficult. not to mention there might be dead branches of it from tribes that migrated somewhere and died out
Never would have known that, ty for sharing!
These deep dive videos on random topics. Remind me of my speech 1i1 class when I first started college. We would go up and just talk about and explain random topics that we usually were really passionate about.
13:04 OMG! I was just thinking “Boy, the prof would be great in an episode like this!!”
Note: I did not get a great look at the thumbnail before clicking this video…
I can only appreciate how ready Shane is to share his homemade croutons and how delighted/pumped Ryan is when learning that 😂😂😂
“there better be an extra theory on that board you son of a bitch” 🛸 had me deaddd 💀 love the friendship
Heres the thing about the Manuscript. If you are a creative writer and you enjoy hallucinogens, you will eventually create something like the Voynich Manuscript. I once attempted to write an article while high on mushrooms (it was actually part of the research for the article) it started off well and fine, but ended in me rambling about Lilies and making drawings that looked less like Lilies and more like spiders on sticks, like the shape of the lilies were not even close! If I had to write it in handwriting I guarantee I would not have been able to read most of it
This does't explain the fact that the language it was written in follows linguistic rules and what kind of shroom trip would last long enough in order for someone to write and illustrate more than 200 pages ?
@@sarahm3674 i mean if it was written in a language thats just sadly been forgotten to time (something possibly related to old turkish) it could just be someone who was crazy or did enough drugs to make them that way writing and illustrating what they think is a logical book
Yes! you're onto something here I think haha. Honestly I was thinking the same thing! I took a quick look at the PDF of this thing while watching the video, and thought the person who made those plants probably loved smoking some plants or eating shrooms like you suggested✨ I wonder if any of the people who researched it have said something about that haha, now i wanna dig deep into this😂 (I encourage everyone to take a look at the whole manuscript, these drawings are honestly so creative. Some vaginas in the roots of one plant, maybe that's why that one dude thought it was about women's health haha.)
@@sarahm3674 what kind of trip? a multi day trip with several doses. Especially if the hallucinogen is in something like a wine or brew that you need to stay hydrated. Like microdosing but you might not even be aware that's what's happening, because all you did was buy the new alcy drink.
@@sigma9-11I've seen arguments mostly that the language is Turkic, Finno-Ugric or some other North Eurasian language. It seems to share the traits of these language families: agglutination, use of suffixes over prefixes, vowel harmony, etc.
18:14 shane shamefully hiding behind the projector is so good 😂
Sometimes I wonder if the Voynich Manuscript is just one of the world's oldest preserved trolls. I mean, it's possible that in the early 15th century Joseph Schmozeph commissioned the book just to mess with his buddy, or his enemy, or the church, etc.
Watcher so reliably makes the last few hours of the work week much easier to survive!
It gets me through work every day 😆. I'd rather listen to them than some of my customers lol
If only I didn't work most Saturdays
12:55
23:31
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Professor Mcnasty’s cameos. Your welcome
THANK YOU
this season is perfect, a great blend of watcher charisma and everything that made unsolved so satisfying to watch
The Voynich Manuscript is one of my favorite mysteries! This series is so rad!!! 😭
I really did not forsee “Shane twerks on European book owners” on my bingo card…
What I would like....is if someone could use a universe simulator to figure out if there are any planets out there where their night sky matches the constellations drawn in the book.
@@SoManyRandomRamblings
hi, I see your suggestion popping up. Maybe someone already did. I would like to think that if extraordinary Minds were tackling this puzzle..then..yep..been there.. tried that. But still cool suggestion, since i haven't knowledge of any of this, one would hope they tried everything available in our " still learning to crawl" time on this planet.✌
@@87ventus I think with the vast options out there a human couldn't get the task done...too many planets. But maybe someone will know the proper way to ask AI so that it doesn't fabricate anything, cuz AI could run through options faster than we could.
@@SoManyRandomRamblings
Agree. .and so we wait.✌
When I was little I would glue random stuff into a journal that I thought would be useful. House plans, fashion, recipes, etc.
I'm gonna just imagine this was some persons everything journal
Medieval junk journal/ mood board
Golden rule, the first wish is to find another magic lamp, leaving you with 2 wishes and a new magic lamp to rub for 3 more wishes. Rinse repeat.
😊 I'm so glad the professor showed up for an episode. It kind of feels fitting for him to show up in one of these. I can't wait to see the next season for puppy history.
ahhhh Shane thank you for talking about this!!! I went to school specifically for rare book librarianship so hearing you talk about limp vellum bindings and folios was so wonderful!!! I loved this!!
thank you! it's really cool I won't lie@@gr33ngirlsea
i was so excited when i saw what this episode is about bc teenage me was so bothered about this weird manuscript! glad to see you guys tackle it PLUS THE PROFESSOR?!
The Voynich Manuscript contains the ultimate truth of the universe: that oatmeal is a cereal and that Today on NBC is the greatest TV show of all time
Well, oatmeal IS a cereal. Not sure if that fact is much disputed. The Today Show reference cracked me up, though, so you get a 👍!!
can you please do episodes on the following:
-Where is Canadian Clubs hidden whiskey?
-Where are the hidden Gems of the Book "The Secret"?
-The Kentucky Alien invasion in the 1950's
-The mysterious birds of Audubon's "Birds of America" book
-The Montana Hyena
-The mysterious abandonment of Portlock Alaska
-The theories of what is behind the Missing 411 cases in the US.
-Kasperov vs Deep Blue computer
-What hit Officer Val Johnsons Car?
-Why are there Piranhas in Americas Waterways?
-Dalnegorsk Spaceship remnants.
-What did Captain Mantell encounter over FT. Knox?
-Who were the Sea People that collapsed the Bronze Age Civilizations?
-The strange encounter between Woodrow Derenburger & Indrid Cold.
-Did Patience Worth write poetry from beyond the grave?
-The Green Children of Woolpit
-What flew over Washington DC in July of 1952?
-Shag Harbor incident
-Flight 2501 & the Michigan Triangle
-Meat Rain of Coach farm
-The Clairvoyance of Lady Wonder
-Americas First bank heist with Pat Lyons
-The blue people of Kentucky
-What guards the treasure of the Superstition Mountains?
-What scared the Herrman family in 1958?
-Ted Serios' "Thoughtographs".
-What causes the "Third Man Effect"?
-Where is the City of El Dorado?
-Where is the Gold of the Cara Nevada?
-Could Charles Hatfield make it rain?
-How did Alfred Hobbs pick the Bramah lock?
-What caused the sinking of the M/S Estonia?
-What was the substance that inspired "The Blob".
-What caused the "La Pain Maudit" incident?
-Who was the Real Shakespeare?
-The Beast of Bladenboro (I especially want Shane to do this one).
Me thinks you've been compiling this list for a while..lol. I think I'll need to screenshot it and start checking out some of these for myself as you've piqued my curiosity 😘👌 cheers
This one is about the Voynich Manuscript, so you can tick that one off your list
all super good topics!! i had a genetics class and in it we had an assignment about the blue fugates of kentucky and they are super interesting. its been a while since i was in that class but i believe their blue skin was a recessive gene that caused them to not have a specific enzyme in their blood/body, which made them appear blue. the reason there was so many blue people in that family was because of inbreeding. they lived in a small community in a very mountainous area so they were super secluded and the family ended up inbreeding a lot. but that meant the gene would be passed around a lot more, so it was more likely that people would be born with the homozygous recessive genotype, which made them blue!!
Thank you for the list! Now I have something to do this weekend lmao
Oooh I haven't heard of most of these, thanks for the research topics 🥰
Booo i just wanna say how much its ridiculous this type of content needs a whole LA office and tv level productions. Its a projector and cork board. Cmon guys 😭
The Mystery Files and Puppet History crossover is everything I ever needed. I love you, Professor 🩵
Wow, special guest The Professor?! Shane and the Professor on the same show?! Finally.
Also, Shane quietly pushing his glasses back up like the biggest nerd in the room sent me.
The most compelling explanation I've seen is that it was an early attempt at written language by a New World tribe whose language has since been lost to time (I remember seeing a native Nahua speaker saying that several of the plants were familiar and the words seemed pretty close to a lot of Nahuatl, the language of the Aztecs).
Dates from pre-Columbus.
Expensive AF velum.
High Quality Latin script is found.
X to doubt.
There’s no way this in Mesoamerican. Nothing of it looks remotely close to any Mesoamerican cosmovision, style or remotely close to Nahuatl. Plus yeah, dates don’t match.
@@nataliadelvalle125 Radiocarbon dating puts the creation of the text to the literal time of first contact. The cosmology looks a tremendous amount like several Otomi beliefs (specifically regarding the flayed people), and the style is very similar to what early Spanish colonists were using at the time. You can scream "NO NO NO" all you want but there's plenty of evidence that needs to be ignored to say that.
@@Oh-Grr nothing of this is true. First of all, the manuscript is from the beginning of the XV century, while first European-Mesoamerican contact is end of XV century and beginning of XVI. You’re almost 100 years off.
Plus it looks nothing like manuscripts done by Spanish colonizers. The similarities stop at the fact that they’re manuscripts with illustrations.
Relating it with Otomí cosmovision is also a big big stretch. The part of the manuscript that shows cosmovision is showing something REALLY different from Otomí.
@@Oh-Grr nothing of this is true.
First of all, this manuscript is from the beginning of the XV century, while first European-Mesoamerican contact was at the end of XV century, and for the communities you’re talking about it’s XVI century. You’re off for about 100 years.
It looks nothing like manuscripts done by Spanish colonists. The similarities stop after the fact that they are manuscripts with illustrations.
Saying it looks like Otomí cosmovision is a big big stretch. The part of the manuscript that shows “cosmovision” is totally different from otomi’s.
I'm excessively convinced that this is the equivalent of someone's D&D notebook.
The back and forth about becoming a genie is top notch banter.
Took me 5 years to find you guys since buzzfeed. That’s wild
Any of the illustrations from this manuscript would make a sick tattoo.
I love that this show hits my weird hyperfixations, and I do hope this is one they solve soon, this is so fascinating!
"I can make you croutons." "F****K yeah!!!" The boys never fail to bring me joy 😊😊😊😊
Omg the speed in which I clicked on the video when I saw The Professor was crazy lol He needs his own hour long series show I'd watch faithfully.
I'm so glad you guys made this episode! This manuscript is quickly becoming my next hyperfixation
Thank god I fondo this Chanel, I missed the buzzfeed unsloved😢 You can’t tell a mystery like Ryan and Shane
The professor and Shane talking to each other is so great.
About the book text following language rules... Lewis Carroll wrote Jabberwocky full of fake words. He used language conventions to make them sound like real words. Could the writer have done something similar?