"There isn't really a sense of peril that would justify the grandmother's zeal." The way I understood it was that there was just a lot of *perceived* peril, or pressure, for each member of the family. The problem wasn't that there was a problem, the problem was that each member of the family *felt* like they had to fill a certain role or the world would end. The grandmother was the same way. because the prosperity of the village came from the family and the home, she felt personally responsible for not just her family but for everything, and that responsibility to maintain the "perfection" they brought to the village then was in turn placed upon the members of her family. "We have to be perfect simply because the village relies on us to be perfect." It doesn't answer everything, but it made some of the problems you mentioned here easy to accept for me.
There was always the danger that they could lose their home again through the violence of the time which lasted a very long time. The mountains that were part of the miracle were protecting their village so if they lost their miracle they believed they would lose their safety and go through the trauma of displacement and losing their home again.
No talk about Onward? So underrated. Some of Pixar's best comedy in years and a good overall story with some great characters. Pixie biker gang will always be a win.
I am so glad the external violence never came back. It would have been such a 'hollywood' thing to do. Instead of focusing on the core real issue of dysfunctional family, it manufactures some external threat to force everyone to come together temporarily but doesn't offer any real healing or long lasting solution.
One of the reasons I think it was kind of surprising (and important) that this story resonates with so many people is that the heroism and conflict in the story all come from the difficulty of getting family members to communicate their feelings. Really, Mirabel's adventure about the reality of how challenging and difficult it actually is to get people to open up, not to mention the perils it often brings to the person who is pushing for that, which is a story that I think is very universal but also isn't something I can remember seeing being tackled by Hollywood project this high profile before. Though I'm not super familiar with the genre, I feel like the way that the magical realism elements were used in the movie did a good job of highlighting and externalizing those challenges which are usually very internal in a language that is familiar for mainstream movies (e.g. Mirabel traveling through Bruno's room to find a deep dark family secret). Hopefully we get more high profile Disney, etc., stuff that continues to celebrate these kinds of emotional adventures!
Abuela's reason for how much of a hardass she was, I thought, was because she didn't want to risk the possibility that anything could take her home from her again. She wanted the magic to be strong and the family to be strong because she wanted to be strong for the next disaster that befell her family, unaware that the next disaster to come would be her. She was just paranoid that something would take her family from her again
I would listen to these shows just for the book recommendations. Also, glad to hear Sanderson enjoys reading soft fantasy. Every sub genre has its place.
It's not surprising that he would, epic fantasy is founded on Lord of the Rings, which is soft as hell other than the one specific power of turning invisible when you put the ring on.
I so agree that having three different compelling characters to identify with is a big part of why the movie is so successful, but also THE reason they are all suffering (the family’s systematic perfectionism) is a major issue in our society nowadays. Adults and children alike suffer from the pressure of being “your best self” (whatever that means) in order to feel like you have value.
And all the family shows different aspects of that perfectionism problem. It is more obvious with Luisa and Isabel, eho sing about it. But Mirabel years for a magic power vecause of it. Bruno leaves because of it. Pepa keeps struggling with her emotions because of it. The grandma peeks her facade of calm vecause of it. They all just cope with that pressure in different ways.
@@lesath7883 Absolutely! And the way perfectionism traps people into believing it’s the right thing to do is spot on as well. All of them believe that if you don’t perform (take all the responsibility for Luisa, play the perfect role for Isabel, be the family cheerleader for Mirabel, don’t call your mom on her issues for all abuela’s children, so on and so forth), you are being selfish and ungrateful. If you speak your truth, you are a horrible person who will break the family. And that’s one of the reasons the ending is so great!
Dan: Encanto is a great movie. Me: Dan is inarguably correct. Dan: Mirabel's song is the most boring one in the movie. Me: DAN IS A MADMAN AND NO ONE SHOULD PAY HIM ANY HEED!
Lol. Mirabel's "Waiting for a Miracle" song was actually my favorite song in the movie. It just hit something I didn't know was there. It's too bad that Brandon didn't like it, but I think that's okay. We all have different life experiences that make us relate differently to the characters I think.
It was perhaps my favorite song in the movie, but it was undeniably the most boring. In the rest of the songs there were new visuals or characters, or story to keep track of. I loved the visuals of waiting on a miracle but they didn’t advance the plot.
I think the grandmother was really traumatised, doesn't matter her reality now is good. It's like saying to a soldier, hey there's no war anymore, why aren't you OK?
I think that also, she was responsible for the whole community. The magic of the house and the family was about supporting the town and providing a safe place to escape from the violence. And, this was a burden that fell on her literally immediately after her husband's death, so she had very little opportunity to grieve. I just imagined her preparing for his funeral and the townspeople asking her for instructions and advice because she'd become the de facto founder of the town.
To me, it's less about "there's no war, why aren't you okay" and more about inflicting your trauma on those around you, which is what abuela did. It's okay to not be okay, but it's not okay to keep the people in your life hostage to your trauma. Due to a number of factors like there being no therapy (as we know it today) back then, the family being too busy taking care of the town to stop and self reflect, and the inherent and absolute respect that was held for parents and grandparents, both abuela and the family probably didnt even realize the behavior was wrong/bad because it came from a place of love. It takes something huge like Mirabel's journey (metaphorically) to make the family even recognize the toxic patterns they've fallen into let alone think about breaking those patterns. I just want to be clear that I'm not saying people need to keep silent about their trauma or not ask for some understanding from their loved ones, but "you will bury your whole identity so I can feel safe and in control" is really a step too far.
@@IceDevine The phrase I've seen a lot in discussions of Encanto is "generational trauma" - Abuela was massively traumatised by losing her home and her husband literally overnight, and then finding herself as the literal keeper of the flame, leading and protecting an entire community as well as raising triplets. Small wonder she was traumatised by events, and unable to process them - if she took time to have a breakdown and put herself back together again, what would happen to the community? Or to her children? But having locked into certain patterns as a coping mechanism - projecting an image of stability and strength that probably did save the community in the beginning - those patterns have become maladaptive as circumstances have changed, and she's imposed her coping mechanism on her entire family, rather than revisiting her trauma to realise that she can move on now - that the need to present a strong facade has passed.
Yeah Disney made a bunch of toys for Isabela because they thought that little girls would love her because she's the perfect pretty princess (its all of her pre-character development too when shes a bad person because shes grappling with the need to be perfect and taking out her frustration on her sister so doing that also ignored her character arc and idolizes her in an unhealthy state which is also a can of worms), and they didn't think they'd want Luisa because of how buff she is.
To me, the pressure stemmed from the idea that the village was only amazing to live in because they depended on the Madrigals. So they had to keep their magic because without it their paradise would crumble. The ending was so impactful because the villagers came together to show they understood the sacrifice the family had been making all those years, and with or without magic things would be fine.
The peril that exists is the peril that could exist because someone who is hurt will see the chance that it will happen again. Others may not see the threat of the tragedy that may come, or may not exist but being hit by my brother will still make me flinch when he is simply raising his hand to adjust his cap.
As a Colombian this means so much to me. Not surprisingly, Encanto quickly became one of the influences I know will for sure show up in my writing. It's just executed so well
I accidentally launched this from my notifications while I was walking my dog, to think I had been listening for 25min totally unaware thst Dan decided to change his look to the Danny Devito penguin look... The absolute shock!
I'm surprised they didn't bring up Mirabel's parents who aside from not noticing Mirabel wasn't in the picture, were really great parents! It was nice to see a health parent/ child relationship I am however pretty dang salty that Bruno didn't get an apology and when he sings his part it's him apologizing. I feel that could have been worked out a bit better . I thought the story was pretty clear. ..Abuela never dealt with her trauma and had to raise 3 kids as a single parent and make sure their village stayed safe from invaders. It led to her becoming obsessed and losing sight of what was important. I thought the theme of generational trauma was clear. For Isabella, they never say why she needs to get married, but Abuela mentions a couple of times the match would "be so good for the encanto" basically pressure to have kids so they got more gifts. And for Luisa, sometimes just talking things out helps. And if you tell people how you're really feeling, maybe they didn't realize they were putting so much pressure on you and can realize they were relying too much on her. (As the entire town was relying too much on everyones gifts.) I also think the movies without the characters singing don't do as well. Can't play it on repeat if there are no songs! (Soundtrack yes, but you know what I mean.) I think Raya didn't sit as well for me because they didn't portray South East Asian culture as well as they should have. Definitely missed the mark on that one. 😬
I disagree with the assertion that “Waiting on a Miracle” is boring, but that’s maybe because I’m a music guy. The very metric structure of the song - 3/4 instead of 4/4, since it’s a Colombian waltz - serves to differentiate Mirabel from the rest of the family. She sings in 4/4 in the beginning, but as soon as she says “I’m not fine,” it switches to 3/4. It’s just such a beautiful and subtle way to reinforce that she’s literally walking to the beat of her own drum, so to speak.
I love these "i have to sign thousands of coppies" streams. I love Brandon´s treatment of his fans. Im just getting back to fantasy after many years of basicaly not reading much. He treats his fans like his equals IMHO, not some people that bother him, which others, as we all know, do. I love how he explains his writing process, his thoughts etc. I love his writing lessons too. Im no way interested in writing, but when he explained the thing about promise and fulfillment in a story i was like "huh, that never occured to me" 🙂 I only read Warbreaker, but Im happy I found him and that with his speed of writing it´ll take me years to catch up (english is not my 1st language but Czech translations sucks so ... all books in english 🙂)
This may be the vast difference between people who had had a war come into their home territory in the memory of still-living persons, and these whose last experience (as a country) of a vast local military conflict has been over 100 years ago. From the point of view of timing, Abuela -> Triplets -> Grandchildren, once you account for differences of ages etc, have a very similar dynamic to families in Central/Eastern Europe in which grandparents were born in mid-1920s, parents were born during or soon after WWII and the youngest generation was born in 60's-70's. And guess what. By mid-1990's, these grandmas, babcie, babushki etc were still obsessively buying too much sugar, flour and groats, because the lack of certain staples was terrifying. They kept stores of fabrics, were unable to let go of a variety of supplies and were ALWAYS prepared with miles of shelves of homemade preserves. Not because it is a nice thing, to have jam or juice or jelly. Because they were fearful of the moment at which the shelves turn out to be empty. And everyone reacts differently. Alma had all the miraculous wonder of plenty around her, but she was fearful of losing the stability of the family she had, with her own hands, carried out of the carnage. She invested everything into the survival of Her Own People. Not to mention becoming a semi-official leader of the community, by total accident. The fact that she wasn't a twitching mess by the time she turned 50 is a miracle by itself. And yes, she did manage to trickle all that neurosis down to her kids and grandkids. And she should not have done that. But if her top priority, of all things, was keeping everyone alive - and the town additionally MADE HER an authority figure! - she could be excused for not really noticing the very negative side effects of her actions. Being surprised by someone unable to let go "because the war was long ago and far away" is uncomfortably close to expecting a war veteran to magically get better and smile, smile, because nobody is shooting anymore.
The movie teaches it's okay to let go of your trauma. Don't pretend it doesn't exist, but it's not an excuse for you to allienate the people that love you, or worse, use them to ensure your happiness. Bruno left because the family (mostly abuela) always assumed the worst, and he feared they would blame Maribel of the loss of their magic. Guess what: he was right. After Maribel didn't get her power, the family merely tolerated her, she was never treated as one more (except maybe by her parents). As an adult, you are expected to talk about what bothers you and process it in a healthy way. If you are a war veteran who's been through hell no one should expect you to forget what you lived, but you are expected to go to therapy, have a support group and not shoot any schools.
@@nachoalfonso2614 What I meant is that Brandon and Dan show a bit of lack of understanding to the position in which Abuela finds herself in. They say, more or less "Why is she so stressed, it was 50 years ago, beyond the mountains" - and stress doesn't work like this, it's not logical. And yes, a person with trauma SHOULD get counselling. And what did Alma get? * kids to bring up as single parent * a surprise magical house (which is positive, but still a stress) * a community suddenly depending on her, just because she has a candle and a house that moves None of that was conductive to her going through her grief stages and properly working on her trauma, at least as far as I can see it. And yes, as a result she did put pressure on her family, up to alienating Mirabel, which was obviously totally unfair to them, however just expecting her to get better with time and distance is unfair to HER. And community leaders, especially ones put in that position in times of crisis, may kind of find it hard to have a heart to heart with their "followers", because any show ow weakness means drop of morale in the community. Also, if I count correctly, Alma would have been born in... 1875-ish? trauma was 1000 days war, so, ~1900... While still soldiers in WWI/WWII were called out for being cowards and weaklings for being "shellshocked". Civilian trauma like hers would be ignored and keeping family values was considered the thing to do...
There’s so much thoughtfulness in Encanto. Mirabel doesnt get a door in the house, doesnt get a gift, but gets a quest. At the end, when the the whole town is rebuilding the house, each family member iterates on their song, they all blend together, harmonize, and it culminates with Mirabel getting to place the doorknob back on the house to return the magic to the family. She didnt get magic, she was the magic, because the magic came from love, and Mirabel had to fix the love.
Lin Manuel Miranda, puertorrican, was in charge on write the songs. They went to Colombia to research the culture. It is curious that we as puertorrican have a lot in common with the colombian culture, folklore, and music. All singers were colombian artists.
I just watched this movie last Saturday, and it was just delightful, and We Don't Talk About Bruno will be stuck in my head for the rest of my natural life and I'm OK with that, I've made my peace with it.
i saw a theory that said that the madrigals got powers that would be useful in case the violence did cross the mountains (dolores could hear the attack from far away, isabella and antonio would lead a sort of fauna and flora guerilla attack, camillo would serve for espionage, etc etc) and i thought that was a really cool theory. Like you got these gifts to protect yourselves and now that you dont need to you start to wonder why you have them at all.
As someone that grew up in a small town in Latin America, magic realism is part of the culture I grew up with more than just a literary genre. Growing up, I believed and expected magic elements around me. I grew up with stories of shapeshifters that came out at night, death spirits that came to torment or pay favors to the living much like a hundred years of solitude, and a grandmother with clairvoyant powers that foretold and announced the death of her brother before everyone knew that he was dead. I can tell that all families had similar stories to share growing up. These elements are not seemed as surprising, but an accepted part of life. I think A hundred years of solitude and The house of the spirits are great novels that did not intend to be "magic realism" but rather depict life in rural Latin America, so I think that is why I do not consider Marquez or Allender fantasy writers. Interestingly, when Amaranta Ursula in A hundred Years, and Aura in the House of the spirits, go to university and become more educated, the "fantastic" elements of the novels decrease/stop.
But its not abusive Grandma try to be less abusive. It's traumatized Grandma, understand that the magic was there for the family, not the family for the magic. It's okay, you are safe. Enjoy the gifts you have given. You aren't going to lose everyone again unless you push them away. You're grandchildren don't have to be worthy of the magic. You're family just needs to stay whole.
As a former target employee, target loss prevention is not repeling from the ceiling. More like sitting in am office watching cameras. However, they do follow cases like that often. People have to steal a certain dollar amount to be charged, so loss prevention team members will left theft happen to wait until they go over the dollar amount they need.
My family is half Colombian, and we mostly enjoyed the movie, but not as much the music. We all loved the song about the unspeakable Bruno, because it sounded the most correct in its musical style in reference to the cultural setting. The movie for us felt more like Colombia was the backdrop of a story that could have been set anywhere. I am happy to have learned more about the fantastical realism angle, which I had previously not considered.
I am Colombian and my view of what magic realism is is that the magic is not super overt. So in encanto there is a lot of that, so that is why I would not put it in magic realism but I could be wrong
I came to hear a conversation about a cartoon and unexpectedly got a Coen Brothers discussion as well. I agree with Dan 100%--O Brother, Where Art Thou?, No Country for Old Men, and Fargo are the three best.
I think honestly the meme-ability of the songs and plot is why Encanto exploded so much (specifically why We Don't Talk About Bruno is so big). ... also I can't believe you guys literally didn't take about Bruno 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Working theory for me is that the magic of the house is powered by the love of the family; the magic fractured when the matriarch asked He Who Shall Not Be Talked About to prophesize Mirabel's future. HWSNBTA fearing to make another prediction of misfortune set off a self fulfilling prophecy; became ostracized, and the house didn't have enough magic to grant a super-power. Luisa and Isabella feeling they were forced into unwanted roles, and Mirabel's whole plot arc made things worse. When everyone reconciled whatever spark of magic remained was re-ignited because the family's love fixed everything.
Hey Brandon and Dan. Baby Formula is indeed very valuable. Some sort of chemical component of it is used in the making of Meth. Also, you guys are so funny.
Baby formula is usable to cut (dilute) powder forms of illicit substances (cocaine, heroin, fentanyl, meth). And thus popular for theft. Also, it is an insanely marked up product for which folks often get free samples or coupons, so there is a somewhat grey market for it.
I don't know if Encanto has no character archetypes or common plot points. I mean I feel like Mirabel is a twist on the whole 'Main character is an outcast because they have a power no one understands but they eventually prove that that power makes them useful' except this time its inverted because everyone else has a power but she doesn't but she still proves that she can be useful.
Great point, I didn't think of it that way. I think similar things have been done with like super hero families and possibly some fantasy stories, although they usually get powers in the end. And I guess Adolin from Stormlight is kind of similar to Mirabel as well.
I watched The Dark Cauldron for the first time a few months ago, all I knew about it was that it was a notorious flop so morbid curiosity was one of my motivators. I did _not_ know that it was based on a fantasy novel but I could tell while watching that it was clearly an adaption of something rather than an 'original' story, it was just so very odd in its storytelling. But knowing now that it was based on an established fantasy series it set me wondering just how Brandon (and/or his peers/friends) would pitch a Disney animated feature and how would they try to avoid the issues in TDC's adapted nature. Come on Brandon, pitch us a Disney movie with princesses and talking animals, the whole shebang.
As a latinoamerican my self I can only agree that they are different fantasy and magic realism. Maybe not the difference as you said. Magic realism is in my opinion a simple novel with elements that are out of the ordinary that can be explained by the consumption of a mushroom or psicosomátic alucinations. Fantasy let's you fly away from reality.
I wanted to know what Brandon thought of the magic coming back at the end because I felt that the ending would have been stronger if it hadn't. I thought the whole point of the song while they rebuilt the house was that the gifts are not the end so be all, but coming together as a family and as a community, they can thrive without the magic and I felt that message was immediately undermined when the magic returned.
Interesting. I thought it made perfect sense. It was pretty clear that the house/magic was cracking because Abuela was splintering the family. The power started failing the day of Bruno's vision of Mirabel, because that's what causes Abuela's fear to skyrocket. It seemed logical that restoring the family's unity would also restore the magic. Certainly a big piece of the reasoning is that it's a kids movie and they wanted a happy, magical ending. But I thought the logic for it was pretty strong regardless.
@@jharkey3 oh, I totally understood why they chose the ending they did. Not only with Disney wanting a magical happy ending, but also the potential spinoff tv series staring these characters with their powers is now still in the table for Disney. I just thought they went through this experience that told them that they don't need the magic, they only need each other, then the magic comes back and I felt it under cut that message. To be clear, I still love the movie. My family has watched it a ton and all the music is fantastic.
It makes sense to me because the story wasn't about the magic. The problem wasn't that Mirabel didn't get a gift or that everyone else had one, the problem was the expectation of everything being perfect.
For me, the magic kind of had to come back to fully live up to the theme. Every character’s lesson relates to their powers. If Luisa loses her powers, then it could be they no longer put all the weight on her because she doesn’t have her power. Isabela wouldn’t be allowed to be free because they let her be herself but because she CANNOT be the perfect flower-growing girl they wanted. Bruno wouldn’t be accepted back because they love him for himself but because he no longer has the ominous visions. Mirabel wouldn’t be seen as their equal because they respect her but because now none of them have magic anymore. They need to have their powers to actual have the lessons learned. At least, in my opinion. Although I do understand why it feels like it was just given back. I can see both sides.
It seemed to me that the magic that had originally been the great blessing and saved the family was corrupted as the grandmother became obsessed with the magic and lost sight of the people. It seemed like the ending would have been so much more powerful if Mirabel and Abuela had a cathartic moment of realization, causing everyone's powers to go away, but restoring the love and unity and understanding that is actually so much more valuable. Having the characters lose their powers and then subvert audience expectations by rejoicing in song because of their restored family relationship would have been so powerful. Maybe the movie could end with a shot of the candle in the window, suggesting that the family's real magic is still burning bright.
@@liul Sorry, I typed that out pretty quickly off of the top of my head. By obsessed, I meant that she believes that the strength of her family and its ability to survive comes from the magic. She's so upset that Maribel doesn't have powers because she's terrified that this means the magic will leave their family and that they're finished if that happens. I guess it felt to me like the magic entered into their lives as a crutch to help them through losing a family member. And that crutch got them to where the family was full and strong once again. It felt very strange to me that they end up holding on to the magic past the point that they need it, considering that it seems to have come about in response to their need.
@@glass12 That's fascinating. That idea of having to give up the magic in order to progress would focus the story so much more on the magic. I think that's what the fantasy genera tends to prioritize. The magic can't be something incidental, but must be the focus of the story, or at least represent some important part of the focus of the story. I find the different take on magic, that it can be an indicator of something going wrong, but ultimately is unrelated to the problem and solution, is part of what I really like about the movie.
@@icandomath I don't agree with that. There's no need for the story to focus more on the magic if taking the route of leaving it behind. The magic was a solution to a problem and when that problem was resolved they kept using it beyond its use. That decision was what brought the problems for the family. Here in Encanto the magic isn't incidental like in most magic realism. Here in the movie the magic is seemed as a miracle and everybody reacts to it that way. In magic realism, the magic is just part of life and no one sees it as anything but that, something mundane.
I think the success of Encanto comes from that most people feel like the black sheep of the family but for very different reasons. I for one identify with Bruno quite a bit because I can be a little autistic, and say the uncomfortable truths that probably shouldn’t be said exactly when they should not be said. I’ve always had the sense that I would become the estranged sibling that would lose his way from the family for one reason or another. It hasn’t happened yet, but I get this feeling that the Bruno character would probably mean a lot more to me in a dark future that feels more likely than not. It doesn’t even have to be a traumatic thing that happens. Even just drifting apart because we’d naturally grow less interested in being around each other as a family. I could tell that my sister would identify with the strong girl that thinks she needs to hold the family together. At the end of the day the family is mostly universal, and there are different architects that every family has some of. That horoscope nature of it matched with the sorts of problems relevant to most all families makes Encanto a far more immediately relatable story than a fish person’s coming out story, or a jazz musician’s midlife crisis.
Will on the subject of "not being in danger" that's the thing about generational trauma, it outlasts the actual danger. Grandma didn't need to push everyone so hard anymore and they weren't in danger but she can't see that and is taring them apart on account of it
Totally miss the point that the grandmother went through actual trauma, so Mirabel accepting her for her faults is actually beautiful rather than saying she was just an a hole like everyone else seems to want to do.
I wonder the influence the Millennial generation is having on Encanto's explosion. Obviously the target audience does love it for the songs and the characters, but I don't expect they understand the underlying concepts. Where the Millennials absolutely see and recognize what's going on AND relate to it.
About the baby formula - they sell them overseas to maybe China or something? Here in Australia there is even a limit on how many you can buy at once as there have been shortages when people buy them in bulk to send overseas.
Im a Brazilian, once a prolific country in magical realism, almost mandatory until the 80s, And I see in the new generations a lot of people who dont know what it is.
Any one else think it was strange that Dolores knew Bruno was living in the walls but didn’t tell anyone? She also seemed to be the family member with the least expected of her?
Great episode! I think the closest the movie comes to explaining the family's magical system is in the lyrics of "Dos Orguitas"--the Spanish-language song they play during the emotionally climactic flashback montage. It tells the story of two caterpillars who have to go through the pains of metamorphosis. "And so afraid of change / In a world that never stops changing / So let the walls come down / The world will never stop changing." In other words, it was necessary for the house to crumble and collapse for the miracle to be reborn and continue.
Oh, talking Coen Brothers are we? Miller's Crossing is the peak for me. Also anti-brandon ending is exactly what I thought of Encanto. I did not like that the inciting incident (the main girl not getting a power) did not receive a satisfactory pay off, and I even said to my sister "they should have brought Brandon Sanderson in to tighten up the script".
I'm sorry to say that - for people in the know - when significant amounts of baby formula are involved in a heist, this typically indicates meth production.
While I agree about the origins of Magical Realism, I have found many different cultures have embraced the genre. A good example of a good Magical Realism movie is Big Fish from Daniel Wallace's novel, Big Fish: A Novel of Mythic Proportions. Which is a Tim Burton film. But a more specific example of other cultures using the genre is Moonlight on the Avenue of Faith by Gina B. Nahai. The author is Iranian.
I grew up in a small town in Canada. There was a woman who was caught in the local grocery store stealing baby formula. It was because she couldn't afford it, so the owner of the store gave her a years supply for free
Baby formula on the Chinese black market goes for big money. Australia had a problem with formula being bought in bulk and being shipped off shore…now we have purchase limits.
Brandon, thank you for raising the issue of the abuse that Bruno and Mirabel were subject to and thank you both for discussing it so thoughtfully. This is the sticking point for me and why I can't see Encanto as a good movie. It's very popular with my 6 and 3 year old right now, especially We Don't Talk About Bruno. At times I'm concerned they don't understand the implications of that song and will think it's OK to treat people the way Bruno and Mirabel were treated. At least it's giving me an opportunity to talk to them about this issue and help them understand it's not acceptable.
I don't think Brandon should be involved in awarding R's, because he definitely deserves two of them but there's no way he'd award even one to himself. That being said, I'd like to nominate Joe Abercrombie for an R as well.
The R's are to be awarded by a committee of pirates. GRR Martin will receive his third R when he completes song of Ice and fire, and complete his transformation into a GRRRowling bear.
Nice chat. I am actuqlly reading 100 years of solitude and am finding it underwhelming. In theme, in presentation, in storymaking, in character development, and even in word choice. Maybe magical realism is a signature literary genere in latino america because over here, real life gets mixed with unknowns and events that can't be explained unless you accept magic IS PART of everyday life. So, the magic in those stories don't immediately feels alien or jarring, since it is just part of life, and explaining or exploring this magic is not really the point of any of our stories. Classically, people who investigate into that magic vanish, so better just accept ot and move on with your life. Anyway, By 38:00, you discuss the situation of the grandma (sorry, but I find calling her in a spanish word a bit tasteless), and why her role in the family and the story does not get explored. Well, that is a totally cultural situation. You see, traditionally, latinoamerican culture is a matriarchy surrounded by a patriarchy. There is a reason why "chinga tu padre" does not work. The grandma is the leader of the family because she IS the grandma, and as the filial relation can't ever change, her position of authority can't be challenged. Her role as mother, provider and educator in the family is not explored, but implied. Because culturally, such a single mother yould naturally fulfill those roles out of necessity. Being the woman whose candle saved the town, she becomes noblity by default. The family becomes influential and everyone else sheepishly aligns around them because that is how our culture works. And as the family becomes larger and more influential, they need to present a steong, unified, and powerful front to the community that looks up to them. THAT is why the grandma behaves the way she does. "What yould they think about us?" is the mantra of these people. And they get torn between their internal fear and the facade they need to keep up at all times to avoid scrutiny by everyone else. It also comes with pride, as the character in auch a position can't even acknowledge failures. Neither theirs (the grandma only accepts she forgot what the magic was fot at the end), neither with their family (the grandma never tells Mirabel she is a disgrace to her face, even though it is obvious with her every word and gesture), and absolutely never to outsiders (the townspeople whould NEVER find out the magic is breaking). This is such a reality in our culture, that explaining it would be like explaining what a king or a princess is. And thus, her position is not explored because it is not needed and would only add more runtime without really improving the story.
Clean-shaven Dan really threw me off. It really changes the shape of his face, in my opinion. Also, I love that you guys seem to be completely tapped into everything I care about. I just watched Encanto for the first time this week!
As you talked about all those Pixar movies.. I guess it's because I'm not in the target group (kids/teens/parents with those) that I haven't seen any of them. The last one I've watched competely was Up and that is like ten years old now.
How does a writer and literature graduate not get why Isabella had to marry? Grandma was traumatized by losing her home and husband. So when Mirabel didn't get a power it sparked the fear and paranoia of the past trauma and she went a bit crazy, abusing everyone to, in her mind, keep the miracle alive. So the second the last child got his gift she had to marry perfect Isabella to a hunk who wants five children so she can start breeding more magic people as soon as possible. It's all part of the same psychosis.
Baby formula is super expensive. So much so that at many stores, it, along with cigarettes and non-prescription drugs that can be used to make meth, is often kept under lock and key.
I couldn't disagree more about Luisa. She helps Luisa with her anxiety by talking to her about it and helping Luisa refocus it not on her responsibilities and burdens but on her doing the things for her sisters that they can't do for themselves or that she can do better. Her song changes from anxious to triumphant with her lines about helping her sisters. That's what I hear anyway.
Yeah, Luisa's problems were actually pretty simple - all she really needed was an opportunity to vent her worries and frustrations. Her journey goes from being the strong one who everyone relies on to being the strong one who admits her emotional insecurities, but who everyone can still rely on.
Regarding the "R. R." / "K" award for fantasy authors, another point of evidence would be Ursula K. LeGuin
Also N. K Jemisin
Maybe an R. L. Stine?
alternative: J is the gender-neutral version of R and K, lol
Now we just need an episode of Dan & Brandon discussing Arcane and my life will be complete.
Arcane pls!
I concur
He didn't watch it, maybe on propose
@@Catago yet... Maybe if enough of us ask
Yes!!!!
"There isn't really a sense of peril that would justify the grandmother's zeal."
The way I understood it was that there was just a lot of *perceived* peril, or pressure, for each member of the family. The problem wasn't that there was a problem, the problem was that each member of the family *felt* like they had to fill a certain role or the world would end. The grandmother was the same way. because the prosperity of the village came from the family and the home, she felt personally responsible for not just her family but for everything, and that responsibility to maintain the "perfection" they brought to the village then was in turn placed upon the members of her family. "We have to be perfect simply because the village relies on us to be perfect." It doesn't answer everything, but it made some of the problems you mentioned here easy to accept for me.
I heard someone say that she feels like she needs to earn the miracle she got, which fits neatly in line with your interpretation imo.
There was always the danger that they could lose their home again through the violence of the time which lasted a very long time. The mountains that were part of the miracle were protecting their village so if they lost their miracle they believed they would lose their safety and go through the trauma of displacement and losing their home again.
Hearing Brandon R. R. Sanderson say "banger of a song" brings me so much joy ❤️
Whoa, don't put the double R there before he does. I have the feeling the double R is only awarded to dead or retired authors.
@@guillermorelobalopez7553 in this instance it's used as Rival of Rothfuss, so the refs will allow it.
@@guillermorelobalopez7553 George R.R. Martin isn't retired though, is he?
@@OrionSeas He isn't? Could've fooled me.
Pd: Thank you for finally letting me follow up on the joke I set up.
No talk about Onward? So underrated. Some of Pixar's best comedy in years and a good overall story with some great characters. Pixie biker gang will always be a win.
I am so glad the external violence never came back. It would have been such a 'hollywood' thing to do. Instead of focusing on the core real issue of dysfunctional family, it manufactures some external threat to force everyone to come together temporarily but doesn't offer any real healing or long lasting solution.
One of the reasons I think it was kind of surprising (and important) that this story resonates with so many people is that the heroism and conflict in the story all come from the difficulty of getting family members to communicate their feelings. Really, Mirabel's adventure about the reality of how challenging and difficult it actually is to get people to open up, not to mention the perils it often brings to the person who is pushing for that, which is a story that I think is very universal but also isn't something I can remember seeing being tackled by Hollywood project this high profile before. Though I'm not super familiar with the genre, I feel like the way that the magical realism elements were used in the movie did a good job of highlighting and externalizing those challenges which are usually very internal in a language that is familiar for mainstream movies (e.g. Mirabel traveling through Bruno's room to find a deep dark family secret). Hopefully we get more high profile Disney, etc., stuff that continues to celebrate these kinds of emotional adventures!
Abuela's reason for how much of a hardass she was, I thought, was because she didn't want to risk the possibility that anything could take her home from her again. She wanted the magic to be strong and the family to be strong because she wanted to be strong for the next disaster that befell her family, unaware that the next disaster to come would be her. She was just paranoid that something would take her family from her again
Generational trauma is a bitch, and if you don't heal from it, you'll break more than you ever wanted to
I would listen to these shows just for the book recommendations. Also, glad to hear Sanderson enjoys reading soft fantasy. Every sub genre has its place.
It's not surprising that he would, epic fantasy is founded on Lord of the Rings, which is soft as hell other than the one specific power of turning invisible when you put the ring on.
I so agree that having three different compelling characters to identify with is a big part of why the movie is so successful, but also THE reason they are all suffering (the family’s systematic perfectionism) is a major issue in our society nowadays. Adults and children alike suffer from the pressure of being “your best self” (whatever that means) in order to feel like you have value.
And all the family shows different aspects of that perfectionism problem.
It is more obvious with Luisa and Isabel, eho sing about it.
But Mirabel years for a magic power vecause of it.
Bruno leaves because of it.
Pepa keeps struggling with her emotions because of it.
The grandma peeks her facade of calm vecause of it.
They all just cope with that pressure in different ways.
@@lesath7883 Absolutely! And the way perfectionism traps people into believing it’s the right thing to do is spot on as well. All of them believe that if you don’t perform (take all the responsibility for Luisa, play the perfect role for Isabel, be the family cheerleader for Mirabel, don’t call your mom on her issues for all abuela’s children, so on and so forth), you are being selfish and ungrateful. If you speak your truth, you are a horrible person who will break the family. And that’s one of the reasons the ending is so great!
Dan: Encanto is a great movie.
Me: Dan is inarguably correct.
Dan: Mirabel's song is the most boring one in the movie.
Me: DAN IS A MADMAN AND NO ONE SHOULD PAY HIM ANY HEED!
Lol. Mirabel's "Waiting for a Miracle" song was actually my favorite song in the movie. It just hit something I didn't know was there. It's too bad that Brandon didn't like it, but I think that's okay. We all have different life experiences that make us relate differently to the characters I think.
It was perhaps my favorite song in the movie, but it was undeniably the most boring. In the rest of the songs there were new visuals or characters, or story to keep track of. I loved the visuals of waiting on a miracle but they didn’t advance the plot.
I think the grandmother was really traumatised, doesn't matter her reality now is good. It's like saying to a soldier, hey there's no war anymore, why aren't you OK?
I think that also, she was responsible for the whole community. The magic of the house and the family was about supporting the town and providing a safe place to escape from the violence. And, this was a burden that fell on her literally immediately after her husband's death, so she had very little opportunity to grieve. I just imagined her preparing for his funeral and the townspeople asking her for instructions and advice because she'd become the de facto founder of the town.
To me, it's less about "there's no war, why aren't you okay" and more about inflicting your trauma on those around you, which is what abuela did.
It's okay to not be okay, but it's not okay to keep the people in your life hostage to your trauma.
Due to a number of factors like there being no therapy (as we know it today) back then, the family being too busy taking care of the town to stop and self reflect, and the inherent and absolute respect that was held for parents and grandparents, both abuela and the family probably didnt even realize the behavior was wrong/bad because it came from a place of love. It takes something huge like Mirabel's journey (metaphorically) to make the family even recognize the toxic patterns they've fallen into let alone think about breaking those patterns.
I just want to be clear that I'm not saying people need to keep silent about their trauma or not ask for some understanding from their loved ones, but "you will bury your whole identity so I can feel safe and in control" is really a step too far.
@@IceDevine The phrase I've seen a lot in discussions of Encanto is "generational trauma" - Abuela was massively traumatised by losing her home and her husband literally overnight, and then finding herself as the literal keeper of the flame, leading and protecting an entire community as well as raising triplets. Small wonder she was traumatised by events, and unable to process them - if she took time to have a breakdown and put herself back together again, what would happen to the community? Or to her children? But having locked into certain patterns as a coping mechanism - projecting an image of stability and strength that probably did save the community in the beginning - those patterns have become maladaptive as circumstances have changed, and she's imposed her coping mechanism on her entire family, rather than revisiting her trauma to realise that she can move on now - that the need to present a strong facade has passed.
Yeah Disney made a bunch of toys for Isabela because they thought that little girls would love her because she's the perfect pretty princess (its all of her pre-character development too when shes a bad person because shes grappling with the need to be perfect and taking out her frustration on her sister so doing that also ignored her character arc and idolizes her in an unhealthy state which is also a can of worms), and they didn't think they'd want Luisa because of how buff she is.
I am so sorry for whatever accident resulted in your tragic scarring, Dan! Hope you recover soon.
What accident?
I thought it was going to be so satisfying when Brandon signed his last manuscript, only to have a new stack plopped right in front of him!
To me, the pressure stemmed from the idea that the village was only amazing to live in because they depended on the Madrigals. So they had to keep their magic because without it their paradise would crumble.
The ending was so impactful because the villagers came together to show they understood the sacrifice the family had been making all those years, and with or without magic things would be fine.
The peril that exists is the peril that could exist because someone who is hurt will see the chance that it will happen again. Others may not see the threat of the tragedy that may come, or may not exist but being hit by my brother will still make me flinch when he is simply raising his hand to adjust his cap.
It made me smile to hear Brandon describe a song as a "Banger"
As a Colombian this means so much to me. Not surprisingly, Encanto quickly became one of the influences I know will for sure show up in my writing. It's just executed so well
I accidentally launched this from my notifications while I was walking my dog, to think I had been listening for 25min totally unaware thst Dan decided to change his look to the Danny Devito penguin look... The absolute shock!
I'm surprised they didn't bring up Mirabel's parents who aside from not noticing Mirabel wasn't in the picture, were really great parents! It was nice to see a health parent/ child relationship
I am however pretty dang salty that Bruno didn't get an apology and when he sings his part it's him apologizing. I feel that could have been worked out a bit better .
I thought the story was pretty clear. ..Abuela never dealt with her trauma and had to raise 3 kids as a single parent and make sure their village stayed safe from invaders. It led to her becoming obsessed and losing sight of what was important. I thought the theme of generational trauma was clear.
For Isabella, they never say why she needs to get married, but Abuela mentions a couple of times the match would "be so good for the encanto" basically pressure to have kids so they got more gifts.
And for Luisa, sometimes just talking things out helps. And if you tell people how you're really feeling, maybe they didn't realize they were putting so much pressure on you and can realize they were relying too much on her. (As the entire town was relying too much on everyones gifts.)
I also think the movies without the characters singing don't do as well. Can't play it on repeat if there are no songs! (Soundtrack yes, but you know what I mean.)
I think Raya didn't sit as well for me because they didn't portray South East Asian culture as well as they should have. Definitely missed the mark on that one. 😬
I disagree with the assertion that “Waiting on a Miracle” is boring, but that’s maybe because I’m a music guy. The very metric structure of the song - 3/4 instead of 4/4, since it’s a Colombian waltz - serves to differentiate Mirabel from the rest of the family. She sings in 4/4 in the beginning, but as soon as she says “I’m not fine,” it switches to 3/4. It’s just such a beautiful and subtle way to reinforce that she’s literally walking to the beat of her own drum, so to speak.
I love these "i have to sign thousands of coppies" streams. I love Brandon´s treatment of his fans. Im just getting back to fantasy after many years of basicaly not reading much. He treats his fans like his equals IMHO, not some people that bother him, which others, as we all know, do. I love how he explains his writing process, his thoughts etc. I love his writing lessons too. Im no way interested in writing, but when he explained the thing about promise and fulfillment in a story i was like "huh, that never occured to me" 🙂 I only read Warbreaker, but Im happy I found him and that with his speed of writing it´ll take me years to catch up (english is not my 1st language but Czech translations sucks so ... all books in english 🙂)
One of my favorite authors wearing a shirt from one of my favorite games, talking about one of my new favorite Disney/Pixar movies 👌🏼😌
The vote is on! I love the chance of getting back to old episodes
This may be the vast difference between people who had had a war come into their home territory in the memory of still-living persons, and these whose last experience (as a country) of a vast local military conflict has been over 100 years ago. From the point of view of timing, Abuela -> Triplets -> Grandchildren, once you account for differences of ages etc, have a very similar dynamic to families in Central/Eastern Europe in which grandparents were born in mid-1920s, parents were born during or soon after WWII and the youngest generation was born in 60's-70's.
And guess what. By mid-1990's, these grandmas, babcie, babushki etc were still obsessively buying too much sugar, flour and groats, because the lack of certain staples was terrifying. They kept stores of fabrics, were unable to let go of a variety of supplies and were ALWAYS prepared with miles of shelves of homemade preserves. Not because it is a nice thing, to have jam or juice or jelly. Because they were fearful of the moment at which the shelves turn out to be empty.
And everyone reacts differently. Alma had all the miraculous wonder of plenty around her, but she was fearful of losing the stability of the family she had, with her own hands, carried out of the carnage. She invested everything into the survival of Her Own People. Not to mention becoming a semi-official leader of the community, by total accident. The fact that she wasn't a twitching mess by the time she turned 50 is a miracle by itself.
And yes, she did manage to trickle all that neurosis down to her kids and grandkids. And she should not have done that. But if her top priority, of all things, was keeping everyone alive - and the town additionally MADE HER an authority figure! - she could be excused for not really noticing the very negative side effects of her actions.
Being surprised by someone unable to let go "because the war was long ago and far away" is uncomfortably close to expecting a war veteran to magically get better and smile, smile, because nobody is shooting anymore.
The movie teaches it's okay to let go of your trauma. Don't pretend it doesn't exist, but it's not an excuse for you to allienate the people that love you, or worse, use them to ensure your happiness. Bruno left because the family (mostly abuela) always assumed the worst, and he feared they would blame Maribel of the loss of their magic. Guess what: he was right. After Maribel didn't get her power, the family merely tolerated her, she was never treated as one more (except maybe by her parents).
As an adult, you are expected to talk about what bothers you and process it in a healthy way. If you are a war veteran who's been through hell no one should expect you to forget what you lived, but you are expected to go to therapy, have a support group and not shoot any schools.
@@nachoalfonso2614 What I meant is that Brandon and Dan show a bit of lack of understanding to the position in which Abuela finds herself in. They say, more or less "Why is she so stressed, it was 50 years ago, beyond the mountains" - and stress doesn't work like this, it's not logical.
And yes, a person with trauma SHOULD get counselling.
And what did Alma get?
* kids to bring up as single parent
* a surprise magical house (which is positive, but still a stress)
* a community suddenly depending on her, just because she has a candle and a house that moves
None of that was conductive to her going through her grief stages and properly working on her trauma, at least as far as I can see it. And yes, as a result she did put pressure on her family, up to alienating Mirabel, which was obviously totally unfair to them, however just expecting her to get better with time and distance is unfair to HER.
And community leaders, especially ones put in that position in times of crisis, may kind of find it hard to have a heart to heart with their "followers", because any show ow weakness means drop of morale in the community.
Also, if I count correctly, Alma would have been born in... 1875-ish? trauma was 1000 days war, so, ~1900... While still soldiers in WWI/WWII were called out for being cowards and weaklings for being "shellshocked". Civilian trauma like hers would be ignored and keeping family values was considered the thing to do...
There’s so much thoughtfulness in Encanto. Mirabel doesnt get a door in the house, doesnt get a gift, but gets a quest. At the end, when the the whole town is rebuilding the house, each family member iterates on their song, they all blend together, harmonize, and it culminates with Mirabel getting to place the doorknob back on the house to return the magic to the family. She didnt get magic, she was the magic, because the magic came from love, and Mirabel had to fix the love.
Lin Manuel Miranda, puertorrican, was in charge on write the songs. They went to Colombia to research the culture. It is curious that we as puertorrican have a lot in common with the colombian culture, folklore, and music. All singers were colombian artists.
i feel like no one would want the K award once you get 3 of them
This is currently my favourite podcast I listen to
Big fan of the "R.R." award!
I just watched this movie last Saturday, and it was just delightful, and We Don't Talk About Bruno will be stuck in my head for the rest of my natural life and I'm OK with that, I've made my peace with it.
"...really boring like Luca"
me: What?
"...but not all the way down with Ratatouille"
me: WHAT?!
Can't wait for the next Stormlight novel by Brandon R.R. Sanderson
In 6 months, I hope somebody makes a supercut of Dan’s Food Heist Stories.
Its been 6 months, someone step up!
K. for women award also pans out also with Ursula K. Le Guin
i saw a theory that said that the madrigals got powers that would be useful in case the violence did cross the mountains (dolores could hear the attack from far away, isabella and antonio would lead a sort of fauna and flora guerilla attack, camillo would serve for espionage, etc etc) and i thought that was a really cool theory. Like you got these gifts to protect yourselves and now that you dont need to you start to wonder why you have them at all.
As someone that grew up in a small town in Latin America, magic realism is part of the culture I grew up with more than just a literary genre. Growing up, I believed and expected magic elements around me. I grew up with stories of shapeshifters that came out at night, death spirits that came to torment or pay favors to the living much like a hundred years of solitude, and a grandmother with clairvoyant powers that foretold and announced the death of her brother before everyone knew that he was dead. I can tell that all families had similar stories to share growing up. These elements are not seemed as surprising, but an accepted part of life. I think A hundred years of solitude and The house of the spirits are great novels that did not intend to be "magic realism" but rather depict life in rural Latin America, so I think that is why I do not consider Marquez or Allender fantasy writers. Interestingly, when Amaranta Ursula in A hundred Years, and Aura in the House of the spirits, go to university and become more educated, the "fantastic" elements of the novels decrease/stop.
But its not abusive Grandma try to be less abusive. It's traumatized Grandma, understand that the magic was there for the family, not the family for the magic. It's okay, you are safe. Enjoy the gifts you have given. You aren't going to lose everyone again unless you push them away. You're grandchildren don't have to be worthy of the magic. You're family just needs to stay whole.
As a former target employee, target loss prevention is not repeling from the ceiling. More like sitting in am office watching cameras. However, they do follow cases like that often. People have to steal a certain dollar amount to be charged, so loss prevention team members will left theft happen to wait until they go over the dollar amount they need.
You underestimate how much lives in your memory the fear of running away from your home (referring to Abuela)
My family is half Colombian, and we mostly enjoyed the movie, but not as much the music. We all loved the song about the unspeakable Bruno, because it sounded the most correct in its musical style in reference to the cultural setting.
The movie for us felt more like Colombia was the backdrop of a story that could have been set anywhere. I am happy to have learned more about the fantastical realism angle, which I had previously not considered.
TWO animation related episodes in a row?! Are you specifically catering to me now? 🎨
literally same :,D
What was the other one?
I like Brandon R. R. Sanderson he's my favorite author
I am Colombian and my view of what magic realism is is that the magic is not super overt. So in encanto there is a lot of that, so that is why I would not put it in magic realism but I could be wrong
I came to hear a conversation about a cartoon and unexpectedly got a Coen Brothers discussion as well. I agree with Dan 100%--O Brother, Where Art Thou?, No Country for Old Men, and Fargo are the three best.
I think honestly the meme-ability of the songs and plot is why Encanto exploded so much (specifically why We Don't Talk About Bruno is so big). ... also I can't believe you guys literally didn't take about Bruno 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Working theory for me is that the magic of the house is powered by the love of the family; the magic fractured when the matriarch asked He Who Shall Not Be Talked About to prophesize Mirabel's future. HWSNBTA fearing to make another prediction of misfortune set off a self fulfilling prophecy; became ostracized, and the house didn't have enough magic to grant a super-power. Luisa and Isabella feeling they were forced into unwanted roles, and Mirabel's whole plot arc made things worse. When everyone reconciled whatever spark of magic remained was re-ignited because the family's love fixed everything.
Hey Brandon and Dan. Baby Formula is indeed very valuable. Some sort of chemical component of it is used in the making of Meth. Also, you guys are so funny.
I believe it is used to cut cocaine.
@@wingracer1614 Either way, it's used in the production of some sort of illegal substance.
Baby formula is usable to cut (dilute) powder forms of illicit substances (cocaine, heroin, fentanyl, meth). And thus popular for theft. Also, it is an insanely marked up product for which folks often get free samples or coupons, so there is a somewhat grey market for it.
A lot also gets shipped to China because parents there want food that has had to pass some level of regulatory oversight
I don't know if Encanto has no character archetypes or common plot points. I mean I feel like Mirabel is a twist on the whole 'Main character is an outcast because they have a power no one understands but they eventually prove that that power makes them useful' except this time its inverted because everyone else has a power but she doesn't but she still proves that she can be useful.
Great point, I didn't think of it that way. I think similar things have been done with like super hero families and possibly some fantasy stories, although they usually get powers in the end. And I guess Adolin from Stormlight is kind of similar to Mirabel as well.
Baby formulas are actually very expensive for the size of the object. It's pretty easy to grab a formula worth $20 and put in your purse or something.
And is highly sought after in China. We regularly have stock shortages and purchase restrictions on baby formula here in aus for that reason
I watched The Dark Cauldron for the first time a few months ago, all I knew about it was that it was a notorious flop so morbid curiosity was one of my motivators. I did _not_ know that it was based on a fantasy novel but I could tell while watching that it was clearly an adaption of something rather than an 'original' story, it was just so very odd in its storytelling. But knowing now that it was based on an established fantasy series it set me wondering just how Brandon (and/or his peers/friends) would pitch a Disney animated feature and how would they try to avoid the issues in TDC's adapted nature. Come on Brandon, pitch us a Disney movie with princesses and talking animals, the whole shebang.
"The Chronicles of Prydain" deserves a serious live action adaptation.
Chronicles of Prydain is an awesome series.
I've actually heard Warbreaker compared to Frozen in a couple instances, mostly because of the sister dynamics and character traits.
The Black Caldron is one of my favorite when I was a kid and the reason I read the book series. The books were better, but I loved the movie as well
Can't believe this Ratatouille slander 😤😂
As a latinoamerican my self I can only agree that they are different fantasy and magic realism. Maybe not the difference as you said. Magic realism is in my opinion a simple novel with elements that are out of the ordinary that can be explained by the consumption of a mushroom or psicosomátic alucinations.
Fantasy let's you fly away from reality.
I wanted to know what Brandon thought of the magic coming back at the end because I felt that the ending would have been stronger if it hadn't. I thought the whole point of the song while they rebuilt the house was that the gifts are not the end so be all, but coming together as a family and as a community, they can thrive without the magic and I felt that message was immediately undermined when the magic returned.
Interesting. I thought it made perfect sense. It was pretty clear that the house/magic was cracking because Abuela was splintering the family. The power started failing the day of Bruno's vision of Mirabel, because that's what causes Abuela's fear to skyrocket. It seemed logical that restoring the family's unity would also restore the magic.
Certainly a big piece of the reasoning is that it's a kids movie and they wanted a happy, magical ending. But I thought the logic for it was pretty strong regardless.
@@jharkey3 oh, I totally understood why they chose the ending they did. Not only with Disney wanting a magical happy ending, but also the potential spinoff tv series staring these characters with their powers is now still in the table for Disney. I just thought they went through this experience that told them that they don't need the magic, they only need each other, then the magic comes back and I felt it under cut that message. To be clear, I still love the movie. My family has watched it a ton and all the music is fantastic.
@@jaredpoulter6762 The magic *was* each other. The magic went away when they lost each other, and it came back when they found each other.
It makes sense to me because the story wasn't about the magic. The problem wasn't that Mirabel didn't get a gift or that everyone else had one, the problem was the expectation of everything being perfect.
For me, the magic kind of had to come back to fully live up to the theme. Every character’s lesson relates to their powers. If Luisa loses her powers, then it could be they no longer put all the weight on her because she doesn’t have her power. Isabela wouldn’t be allowed to be free because they let her be herself but because she CANNOT be the perfect flower-growing girl they wanted. Bruno wouldn’t be accepted back because they love him for himself but because he no longer has the ominous visions. Mirabel wouldn’t be seen as their equal because they respect her but because now none of them have magic anymore. They need to have their powers to actual have the lessons learned. At least, in my opinion. Although I do understand why it feels like it was just given back. I can see both sides.
It seemed to me that the magic that had originally been the great blessing and saved the family was corrupted as the grandmother became obsessed with the magic and lost sight of the people. It seemed like the ending would have been so much more powerful if Mirabel and Abuela had a cathartic moment of realization, causing everyone's powers to go away, but restoring the love and unity and understanding that is actually so much more valuable.
Having the characters lose their powers and then subvert audience expectations by rejoicing in song because of their restored family relationship would have been so powerful. Maybe the movie could end with a shot of the candle in the window, suggesting that the family's real magic is still burning bright.
I wouldn't say the grandmother was obsessed with the magic. I think she was scared to loose it, because then her family would be in danger again.
@@liul Sorry, I typed that out pretty quickly off of the top of my head. By obsessed, I meant that she believes that the strength of her family and its ability to survive comes from the magic. She's so upset that Maribel doesn't have powers because she's terrified that this means the magic will leave their family and that they're finished if that happens.
I guess it felt to me like the magic entered into their lives as a crutch to help them through losing a family member. And that crutch got them to where the family was full and strong once again. It felt very strange to me that they end up holding on to the magic past the point that they need it, considering that it seems to have come about in response to their need.
I agree. To me them having their powers backs felt very hollow.
@@glass12 That's fascinating. That idea of having to give up the magic in order to progress would focus the story so much more on the magic. I think that's what the fantasy genera tends to prioritize. The magic can't be something incidental, but must be the focus of the story, or at least represent some important part of the focus of the story. I find the different take on magic, that it can be an indicator of something going wrong, but ultimately is unrelated to the problem and solution, is part of what I really like about the movie.
@@icandomath I don't agree with that. There's no need for the story to focus more on the magic if taking the route of leaving it behind.
The magic was a solution to a problem and when that problem was resolved they kept using it beyond its use. That decision was what brought the problems for the family.
Here in Encanto the magic isn't incidental like in most magic realism. Here in the movie the magic is seemed as a miracle and everybody reacts to it that way. In magic realism, the magic is just part of life and no one sees it as anything but that, something mundane.
The reason Isabella had to marry was just to continue the line. More so for a new generation of Madrigal’s then anything else.z
I had to read 100 years of soletud for high school you were lucky
I think the success of Encanto comes from that most people feel like the black sheep of the family but for very different reasons. I for one identify with Bruno quite a bit because I can be a little autistic, and say the uncomfortable truths that probably shouldn’t be said exactly when they should not be said. I’ve always had the sense that I would become the estranged sibling that would lose his way from the family for one reason or another. It hasn’t happened yet, but I get this feeling that the Bruno character would probably mean a lot more to me in a dark future that feels more likely than not. It doesn’t even have to be a traumatic thing that happens. Even just drifting apart because we’d naturally grow less interested in being around each other as a family.
I could tell that my sister would identify with the strong girl that thinks she needs to hold the family together.
At the end of the day the family is mostly universal, and there are different architects that every family has some of. That horoscope nature of it matched with the sorts of problems relevant to most all families makes Encanto a far more immediately relatable story than a fish person’s coming out story, or a jazz musician’s midlife crisis.
Clever Dan bringing up baby formula heist on the episode he has baby face going on.
Will on the subject of "not being in danger" that's the thing about generational trauma, it outlasts the actual danger. Grandma didn't need to push everyone so hard anymore and they weren't in danger but she can't see that and is taring them apart on account of it
I read Hundred years of solitude once... and was depressed for 2 weeks after.
Totally miss the point that the grandmother went through actual trauma, so Mirabel accepting her for her faults is actually beautiful rather than saying she was just an a hole like everyone else seems to want to do.
Awesome episode, you guys are hilarious!
Speaking of marvel movies.... when do we get a spider man no way home episode!!!! 😂
All seventeen hours of it?
I've been slowly getting back into reading and my co worker reccomend Steel heart and it is one of the best books I've read in tge past few years
Dos oruguitas is a gorgeous song
I wonder the influence the Millennial generation is having on Encanto's explosion. Obviously the target audience does love it for the songs and the characters, but I don't expect they understand the underlying concepts. Where the Millennials absolutely see and recognize what's going on AND relate to it.
About the baby formula - they sell them overseas to maybe China or something? Here in Australia there is even a limit on how many you can buy at once as there have been shortages when people buy them in bulk to send overseas.
Im a Brazilian, once a prolific country in magical realism, almost mandatory until the 80s,
And I see in the new generations a lot of people who dont know what it is.
Any one else think it was strange that Dolores knew Bruno was living in the walls but didn’t tell anyone? She also seemed to be the family member with the least expected of her?
It would’ve been way too dark for a kid’s movie to show how Abuela “uses” Dolores to keep the order in town.
Great episode! I think the closest the movie comes to explaining the family's magical system is in the lyrics of "Dos Orguitas"--the Spanish-language song they play during the emotionally climactic flashback montage. It tells the story of two caterpillars who have to go through the pains of metamorphosis. "And so afraid of change / In a world that never stops changing / So let the walls come down / The world will never stop changing." In other words, it was necessary for the house to crumble and collapse for the miracle to be reborn and continue.
Brandon say Hi. It'll make my life.
Hi!
I died
I can die in peace now.
@@lutherffs how do you know it's actually him or staff 😂
@@forwhy8723 it doesn't matter!
I totally missed Encanto being magical realism, because it looks like a fantasy movie in terms of aesthetic.
Oh, talking Coen Brothers are we? Miller's Crossing is the peak for me.
Also anti-brandon ending is exactly what I thought of Encanto. I did not like that the inciting incident (the main girl not getting a power) did not receive a satisfactory pay off, and I even said to my sister "they should have brought Brandon Sanderson in to tighten up the script".
39:20 Reall? that is the only theory I have heard, SCB has a good summary of it
I'm sorry to say that - for people in the know - when significant amounts of baby formula are involved in a heist, this typically indicates meth production.
What did I just watch?! Lol. Well put gentlemen.
While I agree about the origins of Magical Realism, I have found many different cultures have embraced the genre. A good example of a good Magical Realism movie is Big Fish from Daniel Wallace's novel, Big Fish: A Novel of Mythic Proportions. Which is a Tim Burton film. But a more specific example of other cultures using the genre is Moonlight on the Avenue of Faith by Gina B. Nahai. The author is Iranian.
We have SS tier in most contexts. In fantasy, it is the RR tier.
The battle on the other side of the mountain will be resolved in the second movie: encan2.
Sorry, i'll see myself out
I grew up in a small town in Canada. There was a woman who was caught in the local grocery store stealing baby formula. It was because she couldn't afford it, so the owner of the store gave her a years supply for free
I realised how well beard suits Dan, maybe he should grow it Pat Rothuss style and see if it looks even better))
Baby formula on the Chinese black market goes for big money. Australia had a problem with formula being bought in bulk and being shipped off shore…now we have purchase limits.
Brandon, thank you for raising the issue of the abuse that Bruno and Mirabel were subject to and thank you both for discussing it so thoughtfully. This is the sticking point for me and why I can't see Encanto as a good movie. It's very popular with my 6 and 3 year old right now, especially We Don't Talk About Bruno. At times I'm concerned they don't understand the implications of that song and will think it's OK to treat people the way Bruno and Mirabel were treated. At least it's giving me an opportunity to talk to them about this issue and help them understand it's not acceptable.
Love the shiekah shirt!
Great work the multi tasking, Brandon
I don't think Brandon should be involved in awarding R's, because he definitely deserves two of them but there's no way he'd award even one to himself.
That being said, I'd like to nominate Joe Abercrombie for an R as well.
The R's are to be awarded by a committee of pirates. GRR Martin will receive his third R when he completes song of Ice and fire, and complete his transformation into a GRRRowling bear.
Adoooonalsiiiiium
Nice chat.
I am actuqlly reading 100 years of solitude and am finding it underwhelming. In theme, in presentation, in storymaking, in character development, and even in word choice.
Maybe magical realism is a signature literary genere in latino america because over here, real life gets mixed with unknowns and events that can't be explained unless you accept magic IS PART of everyday life.
So, the magic in those stories don't immediately feels alien or jarring, since it is just part of life, and explaining or exploring this magic is not really the point of any of our stories.
Classically, people who investigate into that magic vanish, so better just accept ot and move on with your life.
Anyway,
By 38:00, you discuss the situation of the grandma (sorry, but I find calling her in a spanish word a bit tasteless), and why her role in the family and the story does not get explored.
Well, that is a totally cultural situation.
You see, traditionally, latinoamerican culture is a matriarchy surrounded by a patriarchy.
There is a reason why "chinga tu padre" does not work.
The grandma is the leader of the family because she IS the grandma, and as the filial relation can't ever change, her position of authority can't be challenged.
Her role as mother, provider and educator in the family is not explored, but implied. Because culturally, such a single mother yould naturally fulfill those roles out of necessity.
Being the woman whose candle saved the town, she becomes noblity by default. The family becomes influential and everyone else sheepishly aligns around them because that is how our culture works.
And as the family becomes larger and more influential, they need to present a steong, unified, and powerful front to the community that looks up to them.
THAT is why the grandma behaves the way she does. "What yould they think about us?" is the mantra of these people. And they get torn between their internal fear and the facade they need to keep up at all times to avoid scrutiny by everyone else.
It also comes with pride, as the character in auch a position can't even acknowledge failures. Neither theirs (the grandma only accepts she forgot what the magic was fot at the end), neither with their family (the grandma never tells Mirabel she is a disgrace to her face, even though it is obvious with her every word and gesture), and absolutely never to outsiders (the townspeople whould NEVER find out the magic is breaking).
This is such a reality in our culture, that explaining it would be like explaining what a king or a princess is.
And thus, her position is not explored because it is not needed and would only add more runtime without really improving the story.
Clean-shaven Dan really threw me off. It really changes the shape of his face, in my opinion. Also, I love that you guys seem to be completely tapped into everything I care about. I just watched Encanto for the first time this week!
As you talked about all those Pixar movies.. I guess it's because I'm not in the target group (kids/teens/parents with those) that I haven't seen any of them. The last one I've watched competely was Up and that is like ten years old now.
How does a writer and literature graduate not get why Isabella had to marry? Grandma was traumatized by losing her home and husband. So when Mirabel didn't get a power it sparked the fear and paranoia of the past trauma and she went a bit crazy, abusing everyone to, in her mind, keep the miracle alive. So the second the last child got his gift she had to marry perfect Isabella to a hunk who wants five children so she can start breeding more magic people as soon as possible. It's all part of the same psychosis.
good show as always
Another video out there stated that Encanto was written first and then the Colombian setting added later.
Baby formula is super expensive. So much so that at many stores, it, along with cigarettes and non-prescription drugs that can be used to make meth, is often kept under lock and key.
Nice Zelda shirt Brandon
How do you feel about the Coco writer being the showrunner on Narnia? (the netflix adaptation)
I couldn't disagree more about Luisa. She helps Luisa with her anxiety by talking to her about it and helping Luisa refocus it not on her responsibilities and burdens but on her doing the things for her sisters that they can't do for themselves or that she can do better. Her song changes from anxious to triumphant with her lines about helping her sisters. That's what I hear anyway.
Yeah, Luisa's problems were actually pretty simple - all she really needed was an opportunity to vent her worries and frustrations. Her journey goes from being the strong one who everyone relies on to being the strong one who admits her emotional insecurities, but who everyone can still rely on.
At the end of the movie the crack in the mountains doesn't go away, so it's implied they'll have to deal more with the outside world in the future.
Dos oruguitas is a great song. They should’ve nominated both imo.