Hey man, great job on these videos and these tests. I know it’s a lot of work and sharing everything you’re doing is greatly appreciated by the community. Keep it up!
Your welcome! It's a lot of fun to do and I enjoy the process of testing, analyzing and re-adjusting the design for better results. Only if I had more free time 🤣. And thank you for your nice words! Is greatly appreciated
Hi, I love your System and How you Publish everything 👌 About the separation: I use a cyclonic system and that works for the fine dust of my CNC mill very well! Even the dust after planing mdf boards. Maybe it would work, that you put a Cyclone as a second stage after your system. That should reduce the over all air speed but increase the efficiency of separation small particles
You can further enhance suction by doing a straight pipe with smooth sides between the vacuum and separator. The ribs of the tube and the U of the pipe are surely reducing efficiency.
Those numbers for sawdust and chips are pretty good! I wouldn't expect it to work well on the super fine stuff, but that's ok because that's what HEPA filters are for. Also, in practice I don't think it's going to be a big deal if super fine dust accumulates in the separator. It won't be able to build up enough to clog it and the bigger chips and dust will knock it loose over time.
Bill Pentz recommends 4+ feet of straight run before going into the inlet. Probably applicable to the separator inlet and the vac inlet in this case too.
I just got an idea. When camvac is on the same side of the lever as the scale sadly not only the load rating, but also the minimum value that can be measured becomes affected. So even an idea lever mechanism with +/-1g 5kg scale becomes the same as +/-5g 25kg scale in this configuration. If camvac was on one side of the pivot and counterweight on the other, no resolution would be lost. The scale's rating would have to cover just the expected weight difference. To prevent overloading the load could be transferred from the end of the beam to the scale via a spring and some sort of an end stop would prevent it from bottoming out. This way when in operation force proportional to the dust weight would be read by the scale. If load becomes too great, the spring will become compressed and the lever's end will rest on a physical stop. Then the only problem would be friction. Even linear rails have way too much of it for dust-weighting purpose because of preload and sticky grease inside. SKF's calculator is telling me that even a small 608 bearing (no shields) under the radial load of 300N will have 3,72N·mm of starting torque. That corresponds to 0,1g over a 3800mm-long lever. A hardened and polished steel rod on clean glass surface might pivot freely enough but will be less stable. A lever-based design is possible but cumbersome at that scale. So that got me thinking again. What if dust wasn't captured in the camvac? What if there was a lighter and smaller container with all the fine filters to capture dust between your separator and the vac? Then we have just 0.59 N·mm of starting torque under 100N radial load. With a skateboard bearing! This corresponds to 0,1g of sticktion over 60cm lever. With two times longer lever it would be possible to replace a scale with 1kg-rated tensometric beam and cheap-ish 24-bit ADC. Plenty of resolution to spare. At last, hose and clamps position might affect reading at this scale so removing them for readings might be necessary. I hope I haven't bored you with this wall of text :D I've just gotten myself a 3D-printer so hopefully I will be able to do some experiments on my own. If that happens I'll post the results in comments. Short version: Lighter container with filters to capture dust, steel bearings for pivot. Counterweight instead of a one-sided lever. No linear guiding. Hang it like a big vintage weighing scale.
I love it when others have the same passion about things and also are not letting it go. I have read your response very carefully. Fascinating! I did do a bit of research myself after the speed build and it seems that the resolution of a normal scale is around 1/3000. You need a precision balance scale to get a resolution up to 1/60000! It uses a counter balance back in the days now electric operated springs with load readouts. Also if more resolution is needed then the have analytical balance scales. This type of scales is even sensitive to drafts and vibrations. My own conclusion was that the total CamVac system needed to losse a lot of weight! So that the total weight of the CamVac and filter fits on top off the 5kg scale (the load cell would be the next step). This is why I bought the new motors (so don’t tell anyone 😅😉). Ideally would be to be able to get the reading while testing without having to disconnect the hose. Some kind of flexible cuff is needed. I would love to have you on Patreon tough, there are other fanatics like you contributing too the research of this project / or are and have build there own.
@CapturingDust I'm going to try and print this to fit the inlet of a harbor freight dust collector blower, but I'm going to put the motor assembly on rubber mounts and use other sound deadening techniques. If the design had low decibels, a larger bin for bigger chips, hepa filtration, a manometer, and a set of 4 swivel casters, I think this would be an upgrade.
I bought a Dust Deputy Low-Pro Deluxe and put it to heavy usage in the last few weeks. My findings about separation: Wood chips is 99% Sawdust is 98% Sanding dust is n/a Plaster dust is 75% The very fine particles are not separated efficiently for that specific dust separator.
Thx for sharing your results! Interesting 🤔. I ordered a Oneida-Air Super Dust Deputy 4/5 Cycloon to compare results only it’s still in backorder for 3 months now. Buying Oneida parts in the Netherlands is hard it seems. Hope to get it before the end of the year.
Loving watching you work through the joys of capturing dust. Be careful though as that last 0.1% that you don't capture is the dust that is trying to kill you, the rest is just making a mess. Many who have fallen for the look of the Harvey don't look past the centrifugal part. That is the awesome looking but what is left also needs to be filtered, that is why Harvey have "HEPA filter 0.3 micron (Merv 17)" This is also called a HEPA 13 filter (not a MERV 13 which is nowhere near as good). So work at getting the most mass out of the airstream as possible - it makes it FAR easier for the "paper" filters. It also is far better for the fan motors if they have the air stream running through them for cooling. BUT for a safer work environment you then need to pass it through a proper sub micron (HEPA13/MERV17 or better) to get those little nasties out that way virtually nothing but are there in their billions (yes, literally billions). An easy way to see this is to look at the DustControl AirCube1200 - it has an air flow of 1000 m3/h which is about the same as the 3 motor CamVac. You can make your own with a prefilter (just to protect the final filter) and then a H13/M17 filter that can handle the ~1000 m3/h that is provided by a 250 or 315mm dia inline fan. FYI the claims by Record for the CamVac filters filter to 1 micron I am sure are correct, and it is also true that as more "stuff" collects the filtering becomes ever more complete. However, what you don't see is what amount of the 1 micron and sub 1 micron gets through the paper bags. If you don't filter to HEPA 13 level then the best thing to do is have the outlet going outside not into your workshop area. Making sure it is going somewhere were it will be dispersed - not sucked into the home heating system.... 😲 Vacuum/filters for industrial workplaces are now being rated based on the level of filtration and handling of the waste. You will see this on vacuums with L/M/H ratings Some more information from doctorvacuum - com - au HEPA filters are high-efficiency air filters that are commonly used in vacuum cleaners. The acronym HEPA stands for “high-efficiency particulate air.” These filters are designed to trap very small particles, such as dust, pollen, and pet dander, that other vacuum cleaners might not be able to capture. When a vacuum cleaner is equipped with a HEPA filter, it can effectively remove these small particles from the air, helping to improve air quality in your home and reduce allergy and asthma symptoms. Most vacuum cleaners only capture particles down to about 10 microns in size, but HEPA filters can trap particles as small as 0.3 microns! What Is The Difference Between L/M/H Class Vacuums? L-class vacuums are for removing dusts with workplace exposure standard >1mg/m3, commonly used in woodworking or general warehouse settings. M-class vacuums are for removing dusts with workplace exposure standard >=0.1mg/m3, commonly used for construction or wood dusts.(Edit: this is the level needed for MDF etc and basically requires a HEPA13 filter) H-class vacuums are for removing dusts with workplace exposure standard
Thx for your great reply! I have a SEK-SPS30 EVAL KIT, PARTICULATE MATTER SENSOR to quarantine the air that is coming out from the camvac. Not jet tested it because I am still focusing on the bigger particle separation. When that works fine I’ll focus more on the fine filters and vacuum side.
Good stuff! That triple motor extractor looks interesting I think you need to do a workshop tour too! Would love to see how you've maximised the space.
Hi Nick! Thx for your response. The triple motor CamVac is the best extractor for the average workshop according to Dennis from Hooked on Wood; m.ruclips.net/video/e_WJ9DRAVRU/видео.html My workshop is 100% inspired by watching his videos. Only with my own twist. It is a result of a process that started out in 2020 with many little steps and one big vision that you see now as a result.
I try to make a video about it during my Christmas holidays. My studio workshop is in the attic and actually my whole house is furnished as a large design studio for developing creativity. And I share a one car garage for my larger tools that is a 15 minute walk away from my studio.
To measure weight and remove the dead weight you can have a 50-50 stick on a rope and a 25kg counterweight (or what you need to cancel the motor and bin) and now the only weight left is the dust
Yes I that was the other option indeed. Only I had only one garden tile left for it and that was not enough weight 😅. Found out you also can buy a Precision balance for 32kg at 0.1 grams accuracy. It’s just 1750€ 🤔 www.henkmaas.nl/products/precisiebalans-pbl/
thank you for this testing video, which released my self-doubt, I built an MK2 PVC version here in China, I have to say it's friendly and cheaper to build it here, we use the same standards as Europ, and everything is easy to find, and shipping is fast. a 3D print farm helped me with most of the work, coast me about 100 US dollar, and ten days to collect all the stuff. But when I tried it on those fine dust, it was a total disaster, the sanding dust stays in the PVC tube, and it's hard to clean. 🤣 Thanks again. waiting for your next update.
It looks like the Harvey system suffered a bit from the same in the acrylic demo version. See this video at 1:09:00 min; m.ruclips.net/video/77_5nzE1oRQ/видео.html At 1:10:11 you can see the dust “dune” created there as well. They are ramping up the fan to get rid off that. To hi fan speed will fill up the second stage quicker. It needs to be 80/20. I am wondering if a stainless steel version performs better in the very fine dust. Because static buildup is quite high is my experience. And idd the fine particles are very sticky and hard to clean out except for the use of water. The biggest complain at the Harvey system is the quick build up of finedust in the last filters and the hard time to clean those out. I am exploring the idea now to try a small test version with 100mm tube to try out if that will increase the separation efficiency. And catch the very fine substance laterally instead of having it fall down into the second bin in the second stage. It’s clear that the fine dust keeps swirling around far to long.
@@CapturingDust thank you for your inspiringly respond. I using a 1.8 hp(so called),single motor vacuum cleaner connect to the outlet, it's not that strong, and the wind speed get down a lot at the inlet end, the sanding dust building up and laying at second stage, some dust spinning around and won’t fall down second hole.I thought it’s just because it’s lack of some horse power at first, after I saw a long paper band(which was very light) been suck out from the first trash bin right through the impeller, I realized it's not just one problem waiting here. I may change the airflow driving plan into centrifugal blower, it will make some change, at least I don’t need to concern about where is the losing Horse Power. I also wanna try that anti- static blower，it's a fan and been used in factory to get rid statics off plastics. I don't know if I have enough energey to finish it, but I will gave a try
Hi I like what you have done. I'm looking for ideas on catching the fine particuls I'm working in a car body shop and the dust from sanding filler etc is similar to flower.
Hi, beautiful looking and efficient ! I have just a question. you are using a professional vacuum with maybe a 100mm hose. Did you think you can resize the dust separator for fitting in 2 x 40mm acrylic hose for a domestic vacuum use like a karcher ?
I printed the parts in PLA so not the best material for the long run. For now it handles all the dust very nicely. Can’t se any damage. I like to test with fine sand and plaster powder to see how the separation is like and maybe I will see some wear afterwards.
It are not the original CamVac motors. They are 110€ each. Now I have these; hevo-shop.com/Staubsaugermotoren/230-v-trocken/saugmotor-230-v-1100-watt-zweistufig-tp.html Ingos Tipps made one with one of those motors (slightly different type): m.ruclips.net/video/2-J8GXajv78/видео.html
Also, I think the final stage of this design is less-than-optimal. Use the centrifugal force from a smaller diameter and a little twist to accelerate the fine particles to the outside tube, then have baffles with holes that swirl that airflow into a bucket/filter.
I assume this is a major factor in the flour result as well. Even noticed it myself in my own tests of this design. Ruud is probably right that the PVC version has less static charge buildup than the acrylic. There is a way to reduce static: inject electrons. I only know one way on top of my head and it's not dust safe: heated electric grating like in old CRT.
I added copper tape on one side in each tube in the PVC version. Only did not connect it to ground yet. It is something on the list though to get it nicely integrated. I also noticed a slight static charge a while cleaning out the bins.
I saw Dyson Kinetic cyclone units (or a used vacuum for way cheaper probably) are still available, getting one of those and reverse engineering it may be neat!
You could print some springs to match the vacuum weight then place the scale directly below it. You could also put the scale inside a baggie (to protect it from dust) and measure the weight of the cotton bag inside the vacuum. Lots of ways to skin this cat. I also want to caution viewers that atomized dust particles become explosive, so please be careful. I've personally seen a 36" duct full of sawdust explode into a ball of fire, 3 meters in front of my face. A sander hit a steel nail in the log, and caused the entire building to be evacuated. Seriously, be careful with atomized particles.
Weighing the cotton bag alone is just a small part of the dust inside the camvac. The most material is between the metal bin and the cotton bag. When you get the bag out that dust is not inside the bag but underneath it. And you have the paper bag filters around the motors. With cotton sleeves under it. So weighing the total camvac is the best option. And I agree on the spring part. Making a weighing platform to put the camvac on is the best way to go I think.
You should use bag filters for your vacuum motors. Those have HUGE filter area and don't throttle your air flow down. Small filters are bad in that respect.
Once again, an excellent video - I’ve learned a lot from it. When the time comes, I’ll use your results in building my own dust extraction system. Have you considered using a water filter as well? Being able to filter everything completely and then only needing to dispose of and refill the water would be fantastic! My plan is to start by building a smaller version, like a shop vac, and then scale it up once my workshop is ready. Have you also thought about making the impeller yourself? What type of motor were you thinking of using? Thanks again for your great videos, and enjoy!
Hi Pim! Thx for your lovely message! It’s hard to make a test video interesting I noticed while making it. So had to combine some hobbies and really enjoyed making this one! As far as the shopvac version. I ordered a 100mm pvc tube at baptist to make one to fit in a systainer or bosch boxx system. On my patreon I already did a update on that process. Only scaling it down is not the way to go I think because my plunge cut saw produces more dust than one 150mm tube can handle now connected to my Festool midi. Maybe the smaller diameter does the trick though. Need to speedbuild that first I think 🤔. My engineering hat was thinking of a centrifugal separation tube lite they use for helicopters or tanks. On the CamVac motor I ordered this one: hevo-shop.com/Staubsaugermotoren/230-v-trocken/saugmotor-230-v-1100-watt-zweistufig-tp.html They also make versions capable to handle water and I was thinking to use that to only for my planer I like to make the dry version first because I really need that one as fast as possible 😅
@@CapturingDust Heey, thx voor je reactie, even in het Nederlands voor het gemak. Ik bedoel niet zozeer een stofzuiger/stofafzuiging die ook vloeistof op kan zuigen. Ik bedoel de lucht filteren door middel van water, als eind filter. Dit wordt ook wel een “wet scrubb filter” genoemd. Het lijkt me geweldig dat je met water kunt filteren om vervolgens eens per zoveel tijd het water te vervangen. Het schijnt dat dit beter werkt dan een hepa filter… Let op heb nog geen praktijktest uitgevoerd. Grt Pim
Hi, i would not be percieved as the classic turbosafety opinionist, but i t think this time can be worth the risk. Please consider ATEX equipment due to the explosive properties of regular flour and fine milled sugars. In suspension with air they create very dangerous mix with air and can easily deflagrate, in a test like this the ducted channel adds detonation risk too, due to the confined space in which the mix is create. Thanks, by the way, for the interesting solutions you are making and sharing.
Yes you’re totally right. I was aware of that and informed more or less. Luckily not reached the LEL for that. The CamVac is in no way ATEX rated. I did open the window that is 1.5m away. And had my self built room air cleaner on that was installed at the other side. Only that wouldn’t eliminate the risk inside the tube and CamVac! Not going to do the flour test again 😅. At least not inside 😃.
Mooi project. Echter ben ik geen grote fan van de parallelle opvang bakken. Er zou een druk verschil kunnen ontstaan tussen de twee kanten, bijvoorbeeld tijdens het opzuigen van veel materiaal in een korte tijd en een niet perfecte verdeling tussen de twee kanten. Op dat moment gaat er lucht door de opvangbak stromen en effectief materiaal verwijderen. In dit geval stel ik dus 4 opvang bakken voor (of een scheidingswand in elke bak. Hoe dan ook, succes! Houdoe.
Heb je wel een punt. Alleen Harvey doet het ook zo. Ik kon inderdaad wel zien dat er wat wervelingen ontstonden in sommige situaties die niet het resultaat verbeteren. 4 bakken wordt wat te gortig qua kosten. Ik ga eens een keer proberen een tussen schot te laseren die past. Heb de bakken toch redelijk noukeurig in CAD staan. Thx 👍
Well done! Curious about how much made it to the cloth and paper bag filters in the Camvac? Especially with the baking powder! Would putting hard tubing between the Camvac and the separator make any difference? I've used a thien baffle system myself for years, which isn't perfect but is good enough for my needs.
I haven’t opened the CamVac yet but I took a quick look trough the inlet and it was white inside 😅. Should be around 200 grams I guess. They’re was a lot what was left behind in the hose and separator.
For my planer it is perfect! Only I also like to solve the sawdust efficiency so I have printed new dust ports for the second stage and new 100mm y-piece and matching inlets and changed the flex hose for a clear 100mm pvc tube to the CamVac and I am running some tests again. More details on Patreon. It looks pretty promising!
I build it two years ago as a cheap(er) version of the Airbo Aircleaner AC2 that is +1500€ for where I live. I used their filters including the HEPA H13 filter and built the rest of 12mm plywood. And used the shaper for the covers. Made mine for 500€ I guess. Not really DIY budget style😅. When I would do it again i would use more 3D printed parts I think for better airflow inside. And not the Hepa filter but cheaper filters and go the route of using a fan with a bigger airflow so air in the room will be processed more times each hour. Now the hepa filter is a big pressure loss and effect the airflow to much so air is not cleaned that often per hour compared with a less rated filter. It is definitely on the list of builds that I would like to 🎥 with potential to upgrade.
looking forward to the self build multi motor vac. Can you add specs for power consumption? I worry that I won't be able to power it from a single socket in my shop.
The motor I bought is 1100 Watt each on 230v. For the triple motor CamVac the startup power when all the motors are enabled was to much for the fuse. It was delivered with the switches turned on. When I turn them on one by one it works fine!
I think that would be around 99.7% The planer produces the dust with a lot of air volume in between the shavings. I noticed that the dust in the gutter was more compact and dense. So a better test would be to sprinkle the dust in front of the suction hose and let the hose suck it in. Now with the gutter sometimes big chunks of dust are pulled in that will overflow the first stage with material that is not supposed to get into stage 2.
In a real world situation the fine dust wouldn't enter the separator in such volume. A lower trickle of fine dust would be more realistic I think. Agree on straight pipes at the inlet. Thanks for your videos and showing the results
I agree about the volume. Only when cleaning up the workshop and removing a lot of dust do high mass flows arise. Ideally it should be able to separate that.
Yes! The next scene I had to correct it to match with the source file and forgot to swap de footage from up to down. Now that I know it, I really itch to adjust it 😅.
Has anyone built this using a harbor freight 2hp dust collector? I feel like that is far more powerful than one of those cam vacs, even with "3 motors". Surely the % eff. has to be better than 90 %
I have built the separator and have a 2HP motor+impellor rated at 1650CFM ready to test it with. I think the Camvac is a nice small package solution but pretty sure it will lack the real power needed. Planning on having the motor in front of the separator and a micro filter at the exhaust of the separator. Mounting everything on a useless wall.
A three motor Camvac is 3kW, which is about 4hp, so on paper despite its size it is *twice as powerful* as the Harbor Freight unit you're describing. It differs in how it _uses_ that power; a HVLP dust collector is designed to generate very high flow rates through unrestricted systems, whereas the Camvac uses some of its power to additionally generate a high static pressure, like a shopvac but with much higher airflow. In a battle between a 2hp HVLP collector and a 2hp Camvac, the dust collector would have a higher flow rate through an unrestricted pipe but its flow rate would drop off sharply with restrictions to the pipe, whereas the Camvac's would not. But given that this particular Camvac is literally twice as powerful as the 2ph collector you're describing I would expect it to win easily even in terms of unrestricted flow rate. And once you restrict the flow with a dust separator, the Camvac's higher static pressure is a significant advantage. It would be really interesting to see real data on how effective this separator would be with a 2hp HVLP extractor because they're so common. The TL;dr here is that it'll definitely perform worse than the Camvac. But it's also much cheaper...
I love hearing about your methodology, conceptually and how you apply it into practice (and conflicts between them). Very enjoyable.
Hey man, great job on these videos and these tests. I know it’s a lot of work and sharing everything you’re doing is greatly appreciated by the community. Keep it up!
Your welcome! It's a lot of fun to do and I enjoy the process of testing, analyzing and re-adjusting the design for better results. Only if I had more free time 🤣.
And thank you for your nice words! Is greatly appreciated
Hi, I love your System and How you Publish everything 👌
About the separation:
I use a cyclonic system and that works for the fine dust of my CNC mill very well! Even the dust after planing mdf boards. Maybe it would work, that you put a Cyclone as a second stage after your system. That should reduce the over all air speed but increase the efficiency of separation small particles
You can further enhance suction by doing a straight pipe with smooth sides between the vacuum and separator. The ribs of the tube and the U of the pipe are surely reducing efficiency.
Just making the hose shorter, so it doesn't droop like that would be a step in the right direction.
Those numbers for sawdust and chips are pretty good! I wouldn't expect it to work well on the super fine stuff, but that's ok because that's what HEPA filters are for. Also, in practice I don't think it's going to be a big deal if super fine dust accumulates in the separator. It won't be able to build up enough to clog it and the bigger chips and dust will knock it loose over time.
Bill Pentz recommends 4+ feet of straight run before going into the inlet. Probably applicable to the separator inlet and the vac inlet in this case too.
I just got an idea.
When camvac is on the same side of the lever as the scale sadly not only the load rating, but also the minimum value that can be measured becomes affected.
So even an idea lever mechanism with +/-1g 5kg scale becomes the same as +/-5g 25kg scale in this configuration.
If camvac was on one side of the pivot and counterweight on the other, no resolution would be lost. The scale's rating would have to cover just the expected weight difference.
To prevent overloading the load could be transferred from the end of the beam to the scale via a spring and some sort of an end stop would prevent it from bottoming out.
This way when in operation force proportional to the dust weight would be read by the scale. If load becomes too great, the spring will become compressed and the lever's end will rest on a physical stop.
Then the only problem would be friction. Even linear rails have way too much of it for dust-weighting purpose because of preload and sticky grease inside.
SKF's calculator is telling me that even a small 608 bearing (no shields) under the radial load of 300N will have 3,72N·mm of starting torque. That corresponds to 0,1g over a 3800mm-long lever.
A hardened and polished steel rod on clean glass surface might pivot freely enough but will be less stable.
A lever-based design is possible but cumbersome at that scale.
So that got me thinking again. What if dust wasn't captured in the camvac? What if there was a lighter and smaller container with all the fine filters to capture dust between your separator and the vac? Then we have just 0.59 N·mm of starting torque under 100N radial load. With a skateboard bearing! This corresponds to 0,1g of sticktion over 60cm lever. With two times longer lever it would be possible to replace a scale with 1kg-rated tensometric beam and cheap-ish 24-bit ADC. Plenty of resolution to spare.
At last, hose and clamps position might affect reading at this scale so removing them for readings might be necessary.
I hope I haven't bored you with this wall of text :D I've just gotten myself a 3D-printer so hopefully I will be able to do some experiments on my own. If that happens I'll post the results in comments.
Short version:
Lighter container with filters to capture dust, steel bearings for pivot. Counterweight instead of a one-sided lever.
No linear guiding. Hang it like a big vintage weighing scale.
I love it when others have the same passion about things and also are not letting it go. I have read your response very carefully. Fascinating!
I did do a bit of research myself after the speed build and it seems that the resolution of a normal scale is around 1/3000.
You need a precision balance scale to get a resolution up to 1/60000! It uses a counter balance back in the days now electric operated springs with load readouts.
Also if more resolution is needed then the have analytical balance scales. This type of scales is even sensitive to drafts and vibrations.
My own conclusion was that the total CamVac system needed to losse a lot of weight! So that the total weight of the CamVac and filter fits on top off the 5kg scale (the load cell would be the next step). This is why I bought the new motors (so don’t tell anyone 😅😉).
Ideally would be to be able to get the reading while testing without having to disconnect the hose. Some kind of flexible cuff is needed.
I would love to have you on Patreon tough, there are other fanatics like you contributing too the research of this project / or are and have build there own.
@CapturingDust I'm going to try and print this to fit the inlet of a harbor freight dust collector blower, but I'm going to put the motor assembly on rubber mounts and use other sound deadening techniques.
If the design had low decibels, a larger bin for bigger chips, hepa filtration, a manometer, and a set of 4 swivel casters, I think this would be an upgrade.
I bought a Dust Deputy Low-Pro Deluxe and put it to heavy usage in the last few weeks.
My findings about separation:
Wood chips is 99%
Sawdust is 98%
Sanding dust is n/a
Plaster dust is 75%
The very fine particles are not separated efficiently for that specific dust separator.
Thx for sharing your results! Interesting 🤔.
I ordered a Oneida-Air Super Dust Deputy 4/5 Cycloon to compare results only it’s still in backorder for 3 months now. Buying Oneida parts in the Netherlands is hard it seems. Hope to get it before the end of the year.
Loving watching you work through the joys of capturing dust. Be careful though as that last 0.1% that you don't capture is the dust that is trying to kill you, the rest is just making a mess.
Many who have fallen for the look of the Harvey don't look past the centrifugal part. That is the awesome looking but what is left also needs to be filtered, that is why Harvey have "HEPA filter 0.3 micron (Merv 17)" This is also called a HEPA 13 filter (not a MERV 13 which is nowhere near as good).
So work at getting the most mass out of the airstream as possible - it makes it FAR easier for the "paper" filters. It also is far better for the fan motors if they have the air stream running through them for cooling.
BUT for a safer work environment you then need to pass it through a proper sub micron (HEPA13/MERV17 or better) to get those little nasties out that way virtually nothing but are there in their billions (yes, literally billions).
An easy way to see this is to look at the DustControl AirCube1200 - it has an air flow of 1000 m3/h which is about the same as the 3 motor CamVac.
You can make your own with a prefilter (just to protect the final filter) and then a H13/M17 filter that can handle the ~1000 m3/h that is provided by a 250 or 315mm dia inline fan.
FYI the claims by Record for the CamVac filters filter to 1 micron I am sure are correct, and it is also true that as more "stuff" collects the filtering becomes ever more complete. However, what you don't see is what amount of the 1 micron and sub 1 micron gets through the paper bags. If you don't filter to HEPA 13 level then the best thing to do is have the outlet going outside not into your workshop area. Making sure it is going somewhere were it will be dispersed - not sucked into the home heating system.... 😲
Vacuum/filters for industrial workplaces are now being rated based on the level of filtration and handling of the waste. You will see this on vacuums with L/M/H ratings
Some more information from doctorvacuum - com - au
HEPA filters are high-efficiency air filters that are commonly used in vacuum cleaners. The acronym HEPA stands for “high-efficiency particulate air.” These filters are designed to trap very small particles, such as dust, pollen, and pet dander, that other vacuum cleaners might not be able to capture. When a vacuum cleaner is equipped with a HEPA filter, it can effectively remove these small particles from the air, helping to improve air quality in your home and reduce allergy and asthma symptoms.
Most vacuum cleaners only capture particles down to about 10 microns in size, but HEPA filters can trap particles as small as 0.3 microns!
What Is The Difference Between L/M/H Class Vacuums?
L-class vacuums are for removing dusts with workplace exposure standard >1mg/m3, commonly used in woodworking or general warehouse settings.
M-class vacuums are for removing dusts with workplace exposure standard >=0.1mg/m3, commonly used for construction or wood dusts.(Edit: this is the level needed for MDF etc and basically requires a HEPA13 filter)
H-class vacuums are for removing dusts with workplace exposure standard
Thx for your great reply!
I have a SEK-SPS30 EVAL KIT, PARTICULATE MATTER SENSOR to quarantine the air that is coming out from the camvac. Not jet tested it because I am still focusing on the bigger particle separation. When that works fine I’ll focus more on the fine filters and vacuum side.
amazing work, tks a lot guy!!!
Good stuff! That triple motor extractor looks interesting
I think you need to do a workshop tour too! Would love to see how you've maximised the space.
Hi Nick! Thx for your response. The triple motor CamVac is the best extractor for the average workshop according to Dennis from Hooked on Wood;
m.ruclips.net/video/e_WJ9DRAVRU/видео.html
My workshop is 100% inspired by watching his videos. Only with my own twist.
It is a result of a process that started out in 2020 with many little steps and one big vision that you see now as a result.
I try to make a video about it during my Christmas holidays. My studio workshop is in the attic and actually my whole house is furnished as a large design studio for developing creativity. And I share a one car garage for my larger tools that is a 15 minute walk away from my studio.
Great video!
To measure weight and remove the dead weight you can have a 50-50 stick on a rope and a 25kg counterweight (or what you need to cancel the motor and bin) and now the only weight left is the dust
Yes I that was the other option indeed. Only I had only one garden tile left for it and that was not enough weight 😅.
Found out you also can buy a Precision balance for 32kg at 0.1 grams accuracy. It’s just 1750€ 🤔
www.henkmaas.nl/products/precisiebalans-pbl/
+1 on the counterweight. Using the lever reduces the effective sensitivity of the scale.
thank you for this testing video, which released my self-doubt, I built an MK2 PVC version here in China, I have to say it's friendly and cheaper to build it here, we use the same standards as Europ, and everything is easy to find, and shipping is fast. a 3D print farm helped me with most of the work, coast me about 100 US dollar, and ten days to collect all the stuff.
But when I tried it on those fine dust, it was a total disaster, the sanding dust stays in the PVC tube, and it's hard to clean. 🤣
Thanks again.
waiting for your next update.
It looks like the Harvey system suffered a bit from the same in the acrylic demo version.
See this video at 1:09:00 min;
m.ruclips.net/video/77_5nzE1oRQ/видео.html
At 1:10:11 you can see the dust “dune” created there as well. They are ramping up the fan to get rid off that. To hi fan speed will fill up the second stage quicker. It needs to be 80/20.
I am wondering if a stainless steel version performs better in the very fine dust. Because static buildup is quite high is my experience. And idd the fine particles are very sticky and hard to clean out except for the use of water.
The biggest complain at the Harvey system is the quick build up of finedust in the last filters and the hard time to clean those out.
I am exploring the idea now to try a small test version with 100mm tube to try out if that will increase the separation efficiency. And catch the very fine substance laterally instead of having it fall down into the second bin in the second stage.
It’s clear that the fine dust keeps swirling around far to long.
@@CapturingDust thank you for your inspiringly respond.
I using a 1.8 hp(so called),single motor vacuum cleaner connect to the outlet, it's not that strong, and the wind speed get down a lot at the inlet end, the sanding dust building up and laying at second stage, some dust spinning around and won’t fall down second hole.I thought it’s just because it’s lack of some horse power at first, after I saw a long paper band(which was very light) been suck out from the first trash bin right through the impeller, I realized it's not just one problem waiting here.
I may change the airflow driving plan into centrifugal blower, it will make some change, at least I don’t need to concern about where is the losing Horse Power.
I also wanna try that anti- static blower，it's a fan and been used in factory to get rid statics off plastics.
I don't know if I have enough energey to finish it, but I will gave a try
Hi I like what you have done. I'm looking for ideas on catching the fine particuls I'm working in a car body shop and the dust from sanding filler etc is similar to flower.
I have some ideas for separating the very fine particles that I am going to explore in the next months. It needs a different approach I think.
Hi, beautiful looking and efficient !
I have just a question. you are using a professional vacuum with maybe a 100mm hose.
Did you think you can resize the dust separator for fitting in 2 x 40mm acrylic hose for a domestic vacuum use like a karcher ?
I am planning to scale it down to 100mm for a vacuum. And then on a single separator. Two times 40mm is to small I think
Very cool project and love the way you take it seriously (measuring performance)! How are the 3D printed parts handling the abrasive wood chips?
I printed the parts in PLA so not the best material for the long run. For now it handles all the dust very nicely. Can’t se any damage.
I like to test with fine sand and plaster powder to see how the separation is like and maybe I will see some wear afterwards.
Very interested to see your next project. Did you buy the camvac motors?
It are not the original CamVac motors. They are 110€ each.
Now I have these;
hevo-shop.com/Staubsaugermotoren/230-v-trocken/saugmotor-230-v-1100-watt-zweistufig-tp.html
Ingos Tipps made one with one of those motors (slightly different type): m.ruclips.net/video/2-J8GXajv78/видео.html
Great video again Ruud. Houdoe!
Also, I think the final stage of this design is less-than-optimal. Use the centrifugal force from a smaller diameter and a little twist to accelerate the fine particles to the outside tube, then have baffles with holes that swirl that airflow into a bucket/filter.
Yes that is the plan. More like this;
patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/a8/9d/6f/19aad9605ed003/US20080006011A1.pdf
It all looks pretty amazing. Have you thought about electrostatic charge. The flow of the particels seems to be affected by it. keep it on, cheers
I assume this is a major factor in the flour result as well. Even noticed it myself in my own tests of this design.
Ruud is probably right that the PVC version has less static charge buildup than the acrylic.
There is a way to reduce static: inject electrons. I only know one way on top of my head and it's not dust safe: heated electric grating like in old CRT.
I added copper tape on one side in each tube in the PVC version. Only did not connect it to ground yet. It is something on the list though to get it nicely integrated. I also noticed a slight static charge a while cleaning out the bins.
@@BartCerneels You can also add humidity (water).
Great video
I saw Dyson Kinetic cyclone units (or a used vacuum for way cheaper probably) are still available, getting one of those and reverse engineering it may be neat!
You could print some springs to match the vacuum weight then place the scale directly below it. You could also put the scale inside a baggie (to protect it from dust) and measure the weight of the cotton bag inside the vacuum. Lots of ways to skin this cat.
I also want to caution viewers that atomized dust particles become explosive, so please be careful. I've personally seen a 36" duct full of sawdust explode into a ball of fire, 3 meters in front of my face. A sander hit a steel nail in the log, and caused the entire building to be evacuated. Seriously, be careful with atomized particles.
Weighing the cotton bag alone is just a small part of the dust inside the camvac. The most material is between the metal bin and the cotton bag. When you get the bag out that dust is not inside the bag but underneath it. And you have the paper bag filters around the motors. With cotton sleeves under it.
So weighing the total camvac is the best option. And I agree on the spring part. Making a weighing platform to put the camvac on is the best way to go I think.
@@CapturingDust Thanks for the immediate response.
You should use bag filters for your vacuum motors. Those have HUGE filter area and don't throttle your air flow down. Small filters are bad in that respect.
Once again, an excellent video - I’ve learned a lot from it. When the time comes, I’ll use your results in building my own dust extraction system.
Have you considered using a water filter as well? Being able to filter everything completely and then only needing to dispose of and refill the water would be fantastic!
My plan is to start by building a smaller version, like a shop vac, and then scale it up once my workshop is ready.
Have you also thought about making the impeller yourself? What type of motor were you thinking of using?
Thanks again for your great videos, and enjoy!
Hi Pim! Thx for your lovely message!
It’s hard to make a test video interesting I noticed while making it. So had to combine some hobbies and really enjoyed making this one!
As far as the shopvac version. I ordered a 100mm pvc tube at baptist to make one to fit in a systainer or bosch boxx system. On my patreon I already did a update on that process.
Only scaling it down is not the way to go I think because my plunge cut saw produces more dust than one 150mm tube can handle now connected to my Festool midi. Maybe the smaller diameter does the trick though. Need to speedbuild that first I think 🤔. My engineering hat was thinking of a centrifugal separation tube lite they use for helicopters or tanks.
On the CamVac motor I ordered this one:
hevo-shop.com/Staubsaugermotoren/230-v-trocken/saugmotor-230-v-1100-watt-zweistufig-tp.html
They also make versions capable to handle water and I was thinking to use that to only for my planer I like to make the dry version first because I really need that one as fast as possible 😅
@@CapturingDust Heey, thx voor je reactie, even in het Nederlands voor het gemak.
Ik bedoel niet zozeer een stofzuiger/stofafzuiging die ook vloeistof op kan zuigen.
Ik bedoel de lucht filteren door middel van water, als eind filter. Dit wordt ook wel een “wet scrubb filter” genoemd.
Het lijkt me geweldig dat je met water kunt filteren om vervolgens eens per zoveel tijd het water te vervangen.
Het schijnt dat dit beter werkt dan een hepa filter…
Let op heb nog geen praktijktest uitgevoerd.
Grt Pim
Hi, i would not be percieved as the classic turbosafety opinionist, but i t think this time can be worth the risk.
Please consider ATEX equipment due to the explosive properties of regular flour and fine milled sugars. In suspension with air they create very dangerous mix with air and can easily deflagrate, in a test like this the ducted channel adds detonation risk too, due to the confined space in which the mix is create. Thanks, by the way, for the interesting solutions you are making and sharing.
Yes you’re totally right. I was aware of that and informed more or less. Luckily not reached the LEL for that. The CamVac is in no way ATEX rated. I did open the window that is 1.5m away. And had my self built room air cleaner on that was installed at the other side.
Only that wouldn’t eliminate the risk inside the tube and CamVac! Not going to do the flour test again 😅. At least not inside 😃.
Mooi project. Echter ben ik geen grote fan van de parallelle opvang bakken. Er zou een druk verschil kunnen ontstaan tussen de twee kanten, bijvoorbeeld tijdens het opzuigen van veel materiaal in een korte tijd en een niet perfecte verdeling tussen de twee kanten. Op dat moment gaat er lucht door de opvangbak stromen en effectief materiaal verwijderen. In dit geval stel ik dus 4 opvang bakken voor (of een scheidingswand in elke bak. Hoe dan ook, succes! Houdoe.
Heb je wel een punt. Alleen Harvey doet het ook zo. Ik kon inderdaad wel zien dat er wat wervelingen ontstonden in sommige situaties die niet het resultaat verbeteren. 4 bakken wordt wat te gortig qua kosten. Ik ga eens een keer proberen een tussen schot te laseren die past. Heb de bakken toch redelijk noukeurig in CAD staan. Thx 👍
Well done! Curious about how much made it to the cloth and paper bag filters in the Camvac? Especially with the baking powder! Would putting hard tubing between the Camvac and the separator make any difference? I've used a thien baffle system myself for years, which isn't perfect but is good enough for my needs.
I haven’t opened the CamVac yet but I took a quick look trough the inlet and it was white inside 😅. Should be around 200 grams I guess. They’re was a lot what was left behind in the hose and separator.
very interesting. did the tests lead to revision ideas/plans? or are you happy with the performance?
love this series and the channel :)
For my planer it is perfect! Only I also like to solve the sawdust efficiency so I have printed new dust ports for the second stage and new 100mm y-piece and matching inlets and changed the flex hose for a clear 100mm pvc tube to the CamVac and I am running some tests again. More details on Patreon. It looks pretty promising!
Would you consider a video on your air cleaner box? Seems DIY but really nice.
I build it two years ago as a cheap(er) version of the Airbo Aircleaner AC2 that is +1500€ for where I live. I used their filters including the HEPA H13 filter and built the rest of 12mm plywood. And used the shaper for the covers. Made mine for 500€ I guess. Not really DIY budget style😅.
When I would do it again i would use more 3D printed parts I think for better airflow inside. And not the Hepa filter but cheaper filters and go the route of using a fan with a bigger airflow so air in the room will be processed more times each hour.
Now the hepa filter is a big pressure loss and effect the airflow to much so air is not cleaned that often per hour compared with a less rated filter.
It is definitely on the list of builds that I would like to 🎥 with potential to upgrade.
looking forward to the self build multi motor vac.
Can you add specs for power consumption? I worry that I won't be able to power it from a single socket in my shop.
The motor I bought is 1100 Watt each on 230v.
For the triple motor CamVac the startup power when all the motors are enabled was to much for the fuse. It was delivered with the switches turned on.
When I turn them on one by one it works fine!
What happens if you supply dust ast more realistic rates? Like the 6kg/hour mentioned for your planer?
I think that would be around 99.7%
The planer produces the dust with a lot of air volume in between the shavings.
I noticed that the dust in the gutter was more compact and dense. So a better test would be to sprinkle the dust in front of the suction hose and let the hose suck it in.
Now with the gutter sometimes big chunks of dust are pulled in that will overflow the first stage with material that is not supposed to get into stage 2.
In a real world situation the fine dust wouldn't enter the separator in such volume. A lower trickle of fine dust would be more realistic I think. Agree on straight pipes at the inlet. Thanks for your videos and showing the results
I agree about the volume. Only when cleaning up the workshop and removing a lot of dust do high mass flows arise. Ideally it should be able to separate that.
Have you messed with fluid separating using a centrifuge?
No I did not because the CamVac is not rated to process water. It stays high on the “to test” list tough 👍
How is dust so fascinating? Why do i have to watch all your videos with such interest? Its just dust . . .
Yes I know. It’s something I also can't let go on myself 🤔
14:37 so the upper one is 2 motors? Cause the next scene the upper one is 3 motors
Yes! The next scene I had to correct it to match with the source file and forgot to swap de footage from up to down. Now that I know it, I really itch to adjust it 😅.
Has anyone built this using a harbor freight 2hp dust collector? I feel like that is far more powerful than one of those cam vacs, even with "3 motors". Surely the % eff. has to be better than 90 %
I have built the separator and have a 2HP motor+impellor rated at 1650CFM ready to test it with. I think the Camvac is a nice small package solution but pretty sure it will lack the real power needed. Planning on having the motor in front of the separator and a micro filter at the exhaust of the separator. Mounting everything on a useless wall.
A three motor Camvac is 3kW, which is about 4hp, so on paper despite its size it is *twice as powerful* as the Harbor Freight unit you're describing. It differs in how it _uses_ that power; a HVLP dust collector is designed to generate very high flow rates through unrestricted systems, whereas the Camvac uses some of its power to additionally generate a high static pressure, like a shopvac but with much higher airflow. In a battle between a 2hp HVLP collector and a 2hp Camvac, the dust collector would have a higher flow rate through an unrestricted pipe but its flow rate would drop off sharply with restrictions to the pipe, whereas the Camvac's would not. But given that this particular Camvac is literally twice as powerful as the 2ph collector you're describing I would expect it to win easily even in terms of unrestricted flow rate. And once you restrict the flow with a dust separator, the Camvac's higher static pressure is a significant advantage.
It would be really interesting to see real data on how effective this separator would be with a 2hp HVLP extractor because they're so common. The TL;dr here is that it'll definitely perform worse than the Camvac. But it's also much cheaper...
@@cooperised We have to get ProjectFarm to test shop vac options and plot some flow vs pressure charts :DD