Adding weight to the frame of the tractor such as an impliment adds stress to the axle bearings. Adding wheel wheights or tire ballst does not add wieght or stress to the axle bearings. Fill rear tires half full of liquid ballast keeps the center of gravity low, and allows air to act as a cushion like an unballast tire. Adding wheel wieghts will make up for additional weight if needed. Using sugar beet juice or some of the other safe biodegradable fluid will not harm crops or feed if leaked from a puncture. Also will not rust like Calcium cloride will. The use of liquid and or wheel wheights in this manor still allows some wieght adjustments if needed. You won’t have an impliment hanging on your three point hydraulics causing possible excessive strain bouncing around. You won’t have an excessively long tractor either that can reduce work in tight areas like corral cleaning. Just some of my thoughts put out there in responce to this video.
Even with filled tires it's good to have a 3pt attachment to act as a counterweight. If you're using ground engaging attachments, that's where filled tires and wheel weights are the biggest help, and the traditional use of them. Also, I think filled tires can help with stability on hills more than a 3pt attachments because it adds weight closer to the ground (or at least that's the common argument).
Two years ago I purchased 4 new tires for my bx2370 replacing the 4 filled tires on it. I chose to not fill them just to see what the ride was like. It was great. No more back jarring bumps. I just added tire sealant and haven’t had a flat or any other tire issue. I do carry a 4 ft back blade or a 4 ft box blade for ballast. Oh yeah, the coffee filter pulls it all together.
Great points! Has anyone ever backed into a tree, fence, building ect, with an expensive piece of ballast on the 3 point? I have. Yes, I understand there are many different work environments, and skill levels - but I prefer a ballast box w/weights and liquid in the rear tires. I'm, personally, not willing to endanger my expensive attachments for simple ballast use. There are other options.....Just a thought. Thanks Neil an all.
The other big thing to consider is the front axle weight rating. Rear tire ballast will offset the loader weight, but it doesn't take weight off of the front axle. You can safely carry more in the bucket by using the weight behind the rear axle as a lever to take weight off of the front axle/tires, and make it easier on all of your bearings and such. It also takes less weight behind the axle than it does in the tires, for the same amount of balance.
Totally agree. I'm running wheel weights, tire ballast, and carry a heavy implement on my three point when doing heavy loader work because I'm moving very heavy boulders on uneven rough terrain and want the tractor planted and balanced. I don't notice a rougher ride with my 14.9-24 R14 tires filled to 75%...
I do both. On the farm, in my youth, which was in the 40s and 50s, we always had ballast in our back tires (Farmall M, Farmall 400 TA, International 350 TA with fast hitch). The implements hooked to the draw bar. We only had the loader on them for cleaning up the manure pile in the spring and the buckrake when we brought in hay (no bailer or chopper, round bailers hadn't been invented yet). I only have a John Deere 770 now. The rear wheels are full of fluid and I have an 800# counterweight for when I use the loader. The difference in pushing power due to the additional weight in the rear tires is noticeable. The liquid only goes to the top of the rim, slightly below the shrader valve, which leaves an air pocket. The ride is just fine. The weight in the rear tires adds stability to the tractor and moves the CG of the tractor slightly to the rear, not as much as the 3 pt. hitch weight, but it's purpose is additional traction and for that it works well and is a lot less expensive than iron weights bolted to the wheel.
Great points, for sure. The owner's manual for the backhoe on my 2601 specifically says not to ballast the tires if the backhoe is mounted up. I've kissed the limits of my loader, never tippy toward the front.
I have the same tractor with a backhoe and I'm going to fill mine halfway because I'm tired of feeling like I'm about to tip on small slopes. I also have 2.5" spacers. I can only imagine they say not to fill them because of the load it puts on the outriggers.
@@seanwahl1000 fair point. My property only has a small amount of flat ground on it, but haven't noticed much tippiness on side slopes. When I started running dozer on side hills (after years of watching skilled operators), I felt like I was going to roll the machine. Got off for a minute to calibrate what it looked like from the outside. It was like half as much side slope as I'd seen skilled guys working. 😆
I agree with that video. I opted not to fill the tires because of the need to go over lawn sometimes. I can remove a box blade or other implement if I want the tractor to be light and not make ruts. If you have water in the tires you’re heavy all the time.
I don't fill my tires. Reasons to not fill and use 3ph weight (I usually use a ballast box, but an implement works too): 1. Tractor can be made light when you want. To trailer it, for mowing or lawn work, in mud 2. Relieves load on the front axle in a way that filled tires doesn't 3. Easier to fix a flat tire, or take it into the shop 4. Some fills will rust your rims, some don't but can be more expensive. Some can freeze 5. New point for me from Neil - ride quality Reasons to fill instead of 3ph weight: 1. If you don't trust the operator to remember/both to put weight on the 3ph - not just kids/apprentices, but sometimes me too. I sometimes can't be bothered, and that's dangerous 2. Less load on the rear axle - filled tires don't load the axle/chassis, they load the ground directly 3. Less likely to bang into things (although a ballast box is also reasonably tight to the rear of the machine) 4. You can do both - with filled tires you can still add an implement if you need it 5. Lower centre of gravity - more stable on slopes than a 3ph implement (but spacers could also help with this) Like most things in life - horses for courses. My B2601 spends 70%+ of its time mowing, and we can get quite wet on our lawn. I also trailer on a light trailer, filled tires would exceed my trailer weight limit. I have a ballast box, and I use bricks in it so I can vary the weight if I wish.
I'm in agreement, though a lot of it probably depends on its primary use. Just purchased a tractor last spring myself and declined ballast. For me, I didn't want the extra weight in the tires as I use it to mow in the summer and there are soft spots when it rains. With my pervious tractor I had purchased a ballast box that was big enough for the new tractor so I just put that on in the summer when using the FEL and in the winter when plowing with the pusher. Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed your video.
I fully agree Neil. when I was building my house, I made a ballast box form using 2x4 and plywood with a steel trench plate on the bottom . Welded small Z shaped rebar to the bottom, mounted cross draw bar and top link. I had my foundation contractor fill the form while while they were pouring footing. I carry a very compact, at-least 800 lb anywhere I go and it does a good job for the work I do with my MX-4700.
@@donaldstrishock3923 Yup, for sure. The only concern I have is having 800 lbs times distance to 3 point pivot point and that causes a good momentum force. Bouncing the ballast weight also create considerable dynamic loading and whether that is good for 3 point lift piston seal. Whenever i park the tractor in the barn, I always lower the ballast on a tree trunk 12" in dia and 2 ft high to relive pressure from hyd system and it's associate seal , same with my loader. Saying all of that and still I know my CAT II lift system is capable of a lot heavier implement like disk harrows and such. Any opinions?
I bought the Lx2610 and I got it with the large tire package and a 72” belly mower and I find the mower helps with ballast…I don’t load the tires because I mow my lawn with it and have the loader on about half the time…if I need to use the 3pt hitch I just pin the mower up in the raised position and it works quite well…I find having the larger tires makes a big difference in its abilities and floating more across soft ground!..great tractor and no emissions!!
I can't say i agree with you Neil, a short while ago, you did a video where you had your brush hog on the back of your tractor. And you stepped into the loader bucket and the rear wheels came off the ground. Now that tells me that you still need some ballast on the rear axle.
A VERY important added benefit to ballast beyond the rear axle is it takes pressure off of the front axle. Filling the rear tires does not. Especially important for subcompact and compact machines.
That's a great point Sam, I would also like to add that if you're doing loader work, place your tranny in low as medium and high will stress your front axle with all the bouncing.
Agree, that should have been mentioned as a reason to choose rear ballast over loading the tires. It's a far superior way to ballast the tractor for front loader work since it takes load off the front axle. The front axle often gets abused on compact tractors with front loaders.
One other consideration is with loaded tires you don't have to have an attachment on the 3pt. I do a lot of work in some tight woods with my LX2610 I simply don't have room to make turns in my paths with anything more than a quick hitch on.
I do some work in tight woods also, but very low lying wet woods.. unless there is a drought in the summer, its never dry.. I simply need to be as light as possible not to get stuck.. I need weight that i can take off when its time to head to wet areas
@@Morpheen999 yep that can be a concern. Mine woods are high so they drain well. My biggest issue because the LX is not a heavy tractor. Is traction I have the oversized 15-19.5 R4's so I've got about 600 lbs of RimGuard in them. In my case it works great.
Sometimes a big implements hanging off the back is a pain to navigate tight spaces. Many times I have to worm around or into spaces where a 3ph implement would hit. During the winter I run a farmi winch for ballast, and of coarse to use the winch. Nice and tight to the tractor. But, I do not want to fight with putting something on just for ballast, filled tires for me.
If you live on steep terrain or are pulling plows, pulling equipment the pulls hard on the tractor, fluid in the rear tires really helps. It stops a lot of spinning.
One thing that most people miss when they are using a 3 point implement as ballast when driving around that it usually raises your tractors center of gravity, this means although you are less tippy front to back you are more tippy side to side, where tire ballast keeps your center of gravity low. Of course this also depends on the implement you are using as a counter balance and how high you are lifting it.
I can see the validity of both points. For me I don’t go out on the road very often and our soil drains well so I don’t have to worry about those things. But even with ballast in my L4060 tires it’s not very hard to lift the back end. I bought a cheap Chinese ballast box and after some welded reinforcement it will carry the 800lbs of ballast as advertised. What I like about it is the size, it doesn’t add to much length so tight quarters work isn’t impacted much like it is with the flail mower on the 3pt.
My MX5200 came with a similar ballast box. Mine is a 600kg metal box full of concrete. It’s pretty good because if it gets knocked a bit it doesn’t matter.
I made 150lbs of concrete wheel weights for my small garden tractor. They double my drawbar pull with only a rear end weight increase 30%. It's good to have options, so you can use whatever technique is best suited.
I own a 2022 LS mt335hc. It’s a cab tractor on a larger chassis than the sub compacts I find that I don’t need loaded tires for my applications. I appreciate that he lays out the use case for not thinking that tire ballast is the end all solution for ballast. My issue is I have to watch my weight on my trailer/truck combo and loading the tires would put me over when hauling the tractor and implements to a location.
Good topic Neill! I think alot of tractor channel watchers get influenced by popular channels like Good Works Tractors (also a good channel) into thinking tire ballast is a must. It certainly is helpful, but not necessarily essential or obligatory when you have implements on that counter-weight. Thanks for your videos! Always enjoyable and informative! 👍🏾
Watching all different tractor videos researching and learning before I can even buy yet, I just feel like whatever Neil says is gold. The amount of knowledge he has from so many people around him. I do wonder though what you think is best for side to side stability on uneven terrain
this was a good look at stability and balance front to back but I would love to see more info on side to side balance and what steps can be taken there
Great video Neil. I’ve been running my Kubotas without liquid ballast for years. I’m generally always doing something in addition to loader work that requires an additional attachment on the back. I’ve run tractors with fluid ballast and at road speed they begin to oscillate which is not a good feeling. Also more rotating mass which requires more power to get rolling and asks more of your breaking system to stop.
While rear ballast behind the rear axle is best you also have to consider the available maneuvering room you have. For myself, On one side of the house, I have to go between my wood bins, trailer, standby generator and AC unit. On the other side, I have a roller, box blade and the propane tank. If I were to attach my box blade, I can for certain, guarantee, I would have nailed one of the aforementioned objects, or the vehicles in the driveway. So for me, wheel ballast is somewhat a game changer. You also realize, the further out you put your rear ballast the more load you could possibly put on your front axle without realizing it.
Good segment but incomplete advice. Your snow blower or rear implement attachment is correct advice - for front to rear balance but it excludes the left side to right side balance stability. Water in rear tires adds substantial weight on either side of the tractors centre line. This is majorly important when traversing across slopes as the majority of the weight distribution is lower than the tracto rs actual centre of mass. Also if you fill the rear tires to 2/3 of volume, you still have 1/3 of the fire filled with air. I find the this still gives a comfortable ride when driving.
In northern coastal New South Wales where the temperature rarely get below freezing, most tractors have water in the rear tyres. It costs very little and is usually a zero cost upgrade when buying a tractor. My MX5200 has water in the rear tyres. It also came with a 600 kg 3 point counterweight. I think both are needed when using the loader. I think the manual for my tractor recommends fluid in the rear tyres.
I just keep the Backhoe on ( forget its there) an lower the the rear tire pressure to 8psi ( on r4s with NO tire fill fluids) on my MX5200 & EVERYTHING Works Great!
@@donaldstrishock3923 my tractor does not have a backhoe. I've heard backhoes are a bit top heavy. Is this true? My place has steep hills so I like to keep the weight down low. The tyres on my tractor are R1 ag tyres. They work well as the tractor is rarely driven on hard surfaces.
@@kdegraa Whats "kool" with a backhoe, One can "strech it out with Extree counter-weight in the bucket-thumb & even swing the "Extree" Load sideways on the slopes. A 600 lb counter weight is a good start. Tire fluid just "slosses around" ALL the time Throughing "Dynamic Weight" OUT OF KILTER all the time. BEST wishes with all your endeavours.
Thank you for explaining why you my friend do "NOT" put ballist in rear tires. My 19000 pound Backhoe has counter WT. On front. The Backhoe tool is part of the main frame. So I need Wt. On front. I will say at my work. We had a (NH) subcompact that we used to load, 1 Ton dumps with gravel. There was NO counter Wt. on the back. You could NOT dig into gravel without rear lifting up. Your explanation though is great for a subcompact, say a guy "MOWS" his Big Lawn, it's uneven ground, you are so right, his ride with a rear tire filled ballist will be like driving a bulldozer, and will be jarring on the back. The guy who was NOT going to remove his Backhoe attachment on subcompact, that alone is your counterweight.
Neil is correct. Loaded tires are for traction or helping on hills, which is why I loaded mine. A rear implement or my Heavy Hitch is for offsetting the loader.
Hi Neil good video back when I was moving around the holiday camp with a BX 2350 loader used 4 * 25 kg weights + 1 * 50 kg on the 3pt links When mowing no loader weights on front leaving a mower on wood not have worked for us Thanks again
I choose loaded rear tires because it gives me the option to not need to have something on the hitch..like when doing loader work in the trees. Also something like a landscape rake isnt heavy enough for 20hp+ tractor to really help.
My JD loader manual recommends I use all three at the same time loaded tires, wheel weights, and weight on the back. I think the total was to be approximately 1000 lbs. for max loader use.
Kubota also sells a “Ballast Box” that goes on the three point hitch and you fill it with your choice of aggregate. In my area that box is supplied with the tractor free of charge.
I use my BX2370 mainly for mowing my yard so I wonder just how much removing tire ballast would help ride quality. If it was worth the switch I could always add wheel weights.
I put weight on the front of my tractor. I find with the weight it doesn't go through front tires as much. I have a 25 foot 1/2 inch chain and 2 - 15 inch long railroad rails it's about 180 lbs. Year round.
Good, I don't feel bad from never putting ballast in my TYM T474's rear tires. I have done just fine these last three years doing so, doing both logging and skidding.
Another problem with fluid in tire ballast is that you can't easily take it out. All other options, aside from maybe a backhoe, can be taken out in seconds or a few minutes.
Adding ballast to the rear tires, just puts weight in the rear of the tractor holding the rear of the tractor down. It does not unload the front axle. When lifting a heavy load it also makes the front axle the fulcrum. By adding a implement or ballast box to the rear of the tractor, the fulcrum moves to the rear of the tractor. Lightening some of the load off the front axle. Just my opinion.
all depends on what your doing I got my l3901 loaded with rim guard works great for me but it will leave small tire depressions In the yard but thats not normally wat I use it for but if I did do more landscaping stuff with it I wouldn't have them filled
It's not just about the number of lbs you add but more importantly where you add them. Ballast in your tires will lower your tractor's center of gravity and make it safer on hills.
I dont have the tires filled on my t494. I have the backhoe on when lifting anything heavy and so far have not felt the need to fill the tires. But i'm mostly just lifting 2,000lbs logs. in the spring ill be moving pallets of pavers which may cause me to reconsider the ballast.
Great video Neil 😁 I too run without fluid filled tires because I mow my lawn and do loader work. I have a 700 pound ballast box on a B2601 for loader work if needed. What do you think about tire pressure I run only 10psi in my rear tires and the ride is smooth plus I feel like I get more traction with more tread on the ground in the snow. Thanks for the video 😁👍🚜💨🍳
I made 3 point hitch weight with 55 gallon drum and concrete. It weighs almost 1000 pounds. I use it on my Kubota L4701. We need the counter weight for moving heavy round bales for the horses. The concrete drum works very well.
I think my BX23S manual says not to run loaded tires with the BH on. No point in ever filling my tires if I have to empty them every time I want to hook up the BH.
That’s why I carry a box blade. I’m also not a fan of what the back implement AND tire ballast does to rear wheel housing bearings over time. No tire ballast here.
I just fill my tires with depleted uranium pellets. 27 gallons in each tire gives you 1,850lbs per tire and combined it's right about 3,700lbs of ballast. Plus cancer. But hey! I won't be worrying about lifting the rear axle with the bucket, right?! ... don't worry, not actually doing anything like this, just a thought experiment as to what kind of weight you could get into a tire is you really, really really wanted to max out your ballast potential and depleted uranium is 1.6x denser than lead.
Ride quality diminishes only slightly with ballast only scenario you wouldn’t want it is the backhoe we’re it wouldn’t be removed or compaction on a small tractor mowing lawn etc
What’s the best way to take weight off the front axel if you use a 3 point mower that runs on the ground because then no weight is added to the back of the tractor.
When I had my old bx2200 I felt quite safe with just a rear attachment on. But when I got my new 2680 with cab, even with my finish mower on, it felt extremely unstable so I filled my tires. Now move on to larger tractors, my 135 massey Ferguson needs fluid in the rear tires or it’s absolutely useless doing things like plowing. But my plow is have enough I require a few hundred pounds of front ballast to keep control of the front end
I also choose not to use fluid filled rear tires due the ride quality compromise with the minimum weight/balast benefit. Instead, I use my box blade with a quick connect/disconnect device which keeps me stable and results in a more comfortable ride. If more blast weight is needed for that heavier loader work task, I install my brush hog mower on the rear....and mine is probably the heaviest on today's market for my tractor size. Yes, my turning radius is compromised but that is a very small condition to tolerate to the alternative of a turned over tractor.
I have an LX2610SU with a loader and backhoe, my tires are filled with ballast because my property is very hilly and I feel it may add some stability on grades. Any thoughts?
You need a Good Works Tractor VersaBracket and 8 70lb weights :) Beats having a large implement back there that could inadvertently cause or take damage. And they're Quick Hitch compatible.
My question would be about my lx2610 that has tire ballast. when I'm using my bucket, I put on my Kubota weight box that I filled with concrete (probably 500 pounds). Do I still need that tire ballast when Im scooping a almost full bucket of gravel? I like the idea of taking the ballast out of the tires since the tractor is really rough (ab work out) when Im in my field with the brush hog. I like the idea of having air for a better ride.
I keep my tractor off the lawn. The more weight, the better the traction. I use ballast and implement all the time. And yes, I have a backhoe, it's just not on all the time.
If you don't plan on pulling implements from the drawbar and really only using 3pt attachements, there really isn't much point to adding fluid to the tires unless one needs the extra weight if requiring more traction.
My opinion is that if a loader goes on, some sort of ballast should go with it. Tires loaded or wheel weights. You can't fix stupid, so don't depend on the operator to put something on the back for weight.
Problems with this… my little BX was undrivable, even with the brush hog on the back. After filling the tires it rode much better, could go more places, and was FAR more stable.
If your primary use is going to be mowing with a 3 point or belly mower, you don't necessarily need or want that additional weight compacting your grass. But for loader work, you definitely want additional rear ballast for stability, like loaded tires. Know what your primary use is going to be and accessorize appropriately for function and safety.
'Take the money from filling your tires and put it toward a heavy implement...' what implements are you selling for the $57 it took to fill my tires with 800 plus pounds of methanol? Granted, my tire shop is awesome, but even with rim guard or the like, there are not many heavy implements in that category. I have also found that even with the tires filled, sometimes I need my box blade with the 55gallon drum of water on it. The tires being filled makes it to where the tractor is usable without an implement for loader work. Sometimes you have to get in tight spaces.
neal neal neal when a ag tractor is ballast with fluid is not 100% full the air space at the top of the tire is the cussion i keep mine at 10 psi and do not decrease the ride quality having said that your milage may vary
I have also had liquid balance in my big tractor: but now I have small tractor no liquid balance in this tractor. No need to have any in this small tractor cause it’s has backhoe on it.
But when filling tyres the valve is up at 12 a'clock = there will be ~25% empty that then is filled with air. One bonus is that the fluid pushes the tyre to the ground = there is no aircushion between. My opinion is that if the implement in the rear is a little to heavy the tractor can start to swing. Hit a bump and the front tyres "leave for space". A backblade with hydraulic turn and movement can do funny things when the weight is 4-6 feet behind the back tyres. I have once pushed a front tyre of the rim lifting to much, never want to do that again. The backblade attached, heavy wet snow in the big bucket and a little to much turn on the front wheels... I know that I shouldn't turn the wheels with big loads lifted, but sometimes operator errors happen 😱😥🤣.
If I loaded the tires with fluid it would provide problems with trailer loads. I'm getting ready to carry a 1,000# of fertilizer on the trailer with my unballested tractor with rotary spreader(light weight). Heavier tires would overload the trailer. .
Although I do agree, I also cringe every time I see my son whipping around with a $2,800 tiller hanging off the back of our tractor for ballast, and I give him hell for it. I also have a three point snow blower, and know they don't come cheap. One hit into a post, tree or other immovable object can do enough damage to throw off the geometry of either of the two implements I just mentioned, causing more issues than you will ever want to deal with, not to mention to the three point and the rear PTO. This is why I'm a big proponent of ballast in tires, as well as on the rear three point (close in). A ballast box is cheap at under $300, and even cheaper to build as most of us have.
In my case I have a sub-compact tractor...adding fluid to the tires would be a terrible idea...I do use my BX2680 to mow my lawn occasionally, so having the weight of those fluid filled tires would be a horrible idea for the lawn....Like you Neal, I just put an attachment/implement on the 3 point when I'm doing loader work, seems to work pretty well that way...no loader work at all without an implement on the back since the tractor weighs next to nothing in the first place LOL....To me its just easier to have an attachment or implement on the 3 point than deal with the results/effects of fluid in the tires...I guess if I was just out working in the woods, or a field, or something of that nature, ballast in the tires might make sense, but for many people who are doing things in their yard, or otherwise driving across their lawn all the time, that extra weight in the tires all the time would be a bad idea, with a removable implement/attachment on the back that you can simply take off when you aren't needing the weight, makes a lot more sense. The only issue with having an attachment/implement on the back is if you are working in a tight space, but I'm sure you could add wheel weights for those cases, or some sort of a rear weight bracket on the 3 point probably could be fabricated.
Ive got a Grand L 4060 so much bigger than your tractor and it has hundreds of lbs of water in the rear tires. I see no need to remove the water. The water doesn't add any stress to the tractors frame because the weight is not constantly loaded on the tractor but it is loaded on to the earth. If I need way more weight I just hook my big ass land pride 700 lb rotary cutter to the 3 point.
Adding weight to the frame of the tractor such as an impliment adds stress to the axle bearings. Adding wheel wheights or tire ballst does not add wieght or stress to the axle bearings. Fill rear tires half full of liquid ballast keeps the center of gravity low, and allows air to act as a cushion like an unballast tire. Adding wheel wieghts will make up for additional weight if needed. Using sugar beet juice or some of the other safe biodegradable fluid will not harm crops or feed if leaked from a puncture. Also will not rust like Calcium cloride will. The use of liquid and or wheel wheights in this manor still allows some wieght adjustments if needed. You won’t have an impliment hanging on your three point hydraulics causing possible excessive strain bouncing around. You won’t have an excessively long tractor either that can reduce work in tight areas like corral cleaning. Just some of my thoughts put out there in responce to this video.
No fixed ballast offers the option to run light on turf applications where you might otherwise sink or leave marks.
That is a really great point that I have never even thought about. Thanks for the insight 👍
Even with filled tires it's good to have a 3pt attachment to act as a counterweight. If you're using ground engaging attachments, that's where filled tires and wheel weights are the biggest help, and the traditional use of them. Also, I think filled tires can help with stability on hills more than a 3pt attachments because it adds weight closer to the ground (or at least that's the common argument).
Two years ago I purchased 4 new tires for my bx2370 replacing the 4 filled tires on it. I chose to not fill them just to see what the ride was like. It was great. No more back jarring bumps. I just added tire sealant and haven’t had a flat or any other tire issue. I do carry a 4 ft back blade or a 4 ft box blade for ballast. Oh yeah, the coffee filter pulls it all together.
Great points! Has anyone ever backed into a tree, fence, building ect, with an expensive piece of ballast on the 3 point? I have. Yes, I understand there are many different work environments, and skill levels - but I prefer a ballast box w/weights and liquid in the rear tires. I'm, personally, not willing to endanger my expensive attachments for simple ballast use. There are other options.....Just a thought. Thanks Neil an all.
I liked your son helping you at the end.
Maybe it's time to include him in a few more videos 🤠👍
Exactly. Extra weight causes excess soil compaction and should only be used when needed for balance or traction.
The other big thing to consider is the front axle weight rating. Rear tire ballast will offset the loader weight, but it doesn't take weight off of the front axle. You can safely carry more in the bucket by using the weight behind the rear axle as a lever to take weight off of the front axle/tires, and make it easier on all of your bearings and such. It also takes less weight behind the axle than it does in the tires, for the same amount of balance.
This is often overlooked by people that think tire ballast is the only answer.
Right on ,been "preaching" this for years. Almost constantly fix others front (crushed AXLE seals & bearings) but Never my own.
Totally agree. I'm running wheel weights, tire ballast, and carry a heavy implement on my three point when doing heavy loader work because I'm moving very heavy boulders on uneven rough terrain and want the tractor planted and balanced. I don't notice a rougher ride with my 14.9-24 R14 tires filled to 75%...
I do both. On the farm, in my youth, which was in the 40s and 50s, we always had ballast in our back tires (Farmall M, Farmall 400 TA, International 350 TA with fast hitch). The implements hooked to the draw bar. We only had the loader on them for cleaning up the manure pile in the spring and the buckrake when we brought in hay (no bailer or chopper, round bailers hadn't been invented yet). I only have a John Deere 770 now. The rear wheels are full of fluid and I have an 800# counterweight for when I use the loader. The difference in pushing power due to the additional weight in the rear tires is noticeable. The liquid only goes to the top of the rim, slightly below the shrader valve, which leaves an air pocket. The ride is just fine. The weight in the rear tires adds stability to the tractor and moves the CG of the tractor slightly to the rear, not as much as the 3 pt. hitch weight, but it's purpose is additional traction and for that it works well and is a lot less expensive than iron weights bolted to the wheel.
Great points, for sure. The owner's manual for the backhoe on my 2601 specifically says not to ballast the tires if the backhoe is mounted up. I've kissed the limits of my loader, never tippy toward the front.
I have the same tractor with a backhoe and I'm going to fill mine halfway because I'm tired of feeling like I'm about to tip on small slopes. I also have 2.5" spacers. I can only imagine they say not to fill them because of the load it puts on the outriggers.
@@seanwahl1000 fair point. My property only has a small amount of flat ground on it, but haven't noticed much tippiness on side slopes.
When I started running dozer on side hills (after years of watching skilled operators), I felt like I was going to roll the machine. Got off for a minute to calibrate what it looked like from the outside. It was like half as much side slope as I'd seen skilled guys working. 😆
I agree with that video. I opted not to fill the tires because of the need to go over lawn sometimes. I can remove a box blade or other implement if I want the tractor to be light and not make ruts. If you have water in the tires you’re heavy all the time.
I don't fill my tires. Reasons to not fill and use 3ph weight (I usually use a ballast box, but an implement works too):
1. Tractor can be made light when you want. To trailer it, for mowing or lawn work, in mud
2. Relieves load on the front axle in a way that filled tires doesn't
3. Easier to fix a flat tire, or take it into the shop
4. Some fills will rust your rims, some don't but can be more expensive. Some can freeze
5. New point for me from Neil - ride quality
Reasons to fill instead of 3ph weight:
1. If you don't trust the operator to remember/both to put weight on the 3ph - not just kids/apprentices, but sometimes me too. I sometimes can't be bothered, and that's dangerous
2. Less load on the rear axle - filled tires don't load the axle/chassis, they load the ground directly
3. Less likely to bang into things (although a ballast box is also reasonably tight to the rear of the machine)
4. You can do both - with filled tires you can still add an implement if you need it
5. Lower centre of gravity - more stable on slopes than a 3ph implement (but spacers could also help with this)
Like most things in life - horses for courses. My B2601 spends 70%+ of its time mowing, and we can get quite wet on our lawn. I also trailer on a light trailer, filled tires would exceed my trailer weight limit. I have a ballast box, and I use bricks in it so I can vary the weight if I wish.
I'm in agreement, though a lot of it probably depends on its primary use. Just purchased a tractor last spring myself and declined ballast. For me, I didn't want the extra weight in the tires as I use it to mow in the summer and there are soft spots when it rains. With my pervious tractor I had purchased a ballast box that was big enough for the new tractor so I just put that on in the summer when using the FEL and in the winter when plowing with the pusher. Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed your video.
I too use a ballast box for loader and forklift work without any tire ballast.
I fully agree Neil. when I was building my house, I made a ballast box form using 2x4 and plywood with a steel trench plate on the bottom . Welded small Z shaped rebar to the bottom, mounted cross draw bar and top link. I had my foundation contractor fill the form while while they were pouring footing. I carry a very compact, at-least 800 lb anywhere I go and it does a good job for the work I do with my MX-4700.
And further more ; you dont have to drag it around FOREVER.
@@donaldstrishock3923 Yup, for sure. The only concern I have is having 800 lbs times distance to 3 point pivot point and that causes a good momentum force. Bouncing the ballast weight also create considerable dynamic loading and whether that is good for 3 point lift piston seal. Whenever i park the tractor in the barn, I always lower the ballast on a tree trunk 12" in dia and 2 ft high to relive pressure from hyd system and it's associate seal , same with my loader. Saying all of that and still I know my CAT II lift system is capable of a lot heavier implement like disk harrows and such.
Any opinions?
I bought the Lx2610 and I got it with the large tire package and a 72” belly mower and I find the mower helps with ballast…I don’t load the tires because I mow my lawn with it and have the loader on about half the time…if I need to use the 3pt hitch I just pin the mower up in the raised position and it works quite well…I find having the larger tires makes a big difference in its abilities and floating more across soft ground!..great tractor and no emissions!!
I can't say i agree with you Neil, a short while ago, you did a video where you had your brush hog on the back of your tractor. And you stepped into the loader bucket and the rear wheels came off the ground.
Now that tells me that you still need some ballast on the rear axle.
A VERY important added benefit to ballast beyond the rear axle is it takes pressure off of the front axle. Filling the rear tires does not. Especially important for subcompact and compact machines.
That's a great point Sam, I would also like to add that if you're doing loader work, place your tranny in low as medium and high will stress your front axle with all the bouncing.
Agree, that should have been mentioned as a reason to choose rear ballast over loading the tires. It's a far superior way to ballast the tractor for front loader work since it takes load off the front axle. The front axle often gets abused on compact tractors with front loaders.
One other consideration is with loaded tires you don't have to have an attachment on the 3pt. I do a lot of work in some tight woods with my LX2610 I simply don't have room to make turns in my paths with anything more than a quick hitch on.
I do some work in tight woods also, but very low lying wet woods.. unless there is a drought in the summer, its never dry.. I simply need to be as light as possible not to get stuck..
I need weight that i can take off when its time to head to wet areas
@@Morpheen999 yep that can be a concern. Mine woods are high so they drain well. My biggest issue because the LX is not a heavy tractor. Is traction I have the oversized 15-19.5 R4's so I've got about 600 lbs of RimGuard in them. In my case it works great.
Sometimes a big implements hanging off the back is a pain to navigate tight spaces. Many times I have to worm around or into spaces where a 3ph implement would hit. During the winter I run a farmi winch for ballast, and of coarse to use the winch. Nice and tight to the tractor. But, I do not want to fight with putting something on just for ballast, filled tires for me.
If you live on steep terrain or are pulling plows, pulling equipment the pulls hard on the tractor, fluid in the rear tires really helps. It stops a lot of spinning.
I like the thought process of BALANCE vs beet juice for all
One thing that most people miss when they are using a 3 point implement as ballast when driving around that it usually raises your tractors center of gravity, this means although you are less tippy front to back you are more tippy side to side, where tire ballast keeps your center of gravity low. Of course this also depends on the implement you are using as a counter balance and how high you are lifting it.
I can see the validity of both points.
For me I don’t go out on the road very often and our soil drains well so I don’t have to worry about those things. But even with ballast in my L4060 tires it’s not very hard to lift the back end. I bought a cheap Chinese ballast box and after some welded reinforcement it will carry the 800lbs of ballast as advertised. What I like about it is the size, it doesn’t add to much length so tight quarters work isn’t impacted much like it is with the flail mower on the 3pt.
My MX5200 came with a similar ballast box. Mine is a 600kg metal box full of concrete. It’s pretty good because if it gets knocked a bit it doesn’t matter.
I made 150lbs of concrete wheel weights for my small garden tractor. They double my drawbar pull with only a rear end weight increase 30%. It's good to have options, so you can use whatever technique is best suited.
I own a 2022 LS mt335hc. It’s a cab tractor on a larger chassis than the sub compacts I find that I don’t need loaded tires for my applications. I appreciate that he lays out the use case for not thinking that tire ballast is the end all solution for ballast. My issue is I have to watch my weight on my trailer/truck combo and loading the tires would put me over when hauling the tractor and implements to a location.
Your cab adds several hundred pounds.
Good topic Neill! I think alot of tractor channel watchers get influenced by popular channels like Good Works Tractors (also a good channel) into thinking tire ballast is a must. It certainly is helpful, but not necessarily essential or obligatory when you have implements on that counter-weight.
Thanks for your videos! Always enjoyable and informative! 👍🏾
Facts get clouded when you have 10,000 sponsors.
Watching all different tractor videos researching and learning before I can even buy yet, I just feel like whatever Neil says is gold. The amount of knowledge he has from so many people around him.
I do wonder though what you think is best for side to side stability on uneven terrain
I believe they sell wheel spacers which mount between the wheel and the hub for a little wider stance on the rear of the tractor.
@@bruushbuster50 Ya I’ve seen those I just don’t like the look. Looks kinda goofy with the wheels sticking out but I guess that’s the only option
this was a good look at stability and balance front to back but I would love to see more info on side to side balance and what steps can be taken there
Great video Neil. I’ve been running my Kubotas without liquid ballast for years. I’m generally always doing something in addition to loader work that requires an additional attachment on the back. I’ve run tractors with fluid ballast and at road speed they begin to oscillate which is not a good feeling. Also more rotating mass which requires more power to get rolling and asks more of your breaking system to stop.
While rear ballast behind the rear axle is best you also have to consider the available maneuvering room you have. For myself, On one side of the house, I have to go between my wood bins, trailer, standby generator and AC unit. On the other side, I have a roller, box blade and the propane tank. If I were to attach my box blade, I can for certain, guarantee, I would have nailed one of the aforementioned objects, or the vehicles in the driveway. So for me, wheel ballast is somewhat a game changer. You also realize, the further out you put your rear ballast the more load you could possibly put on your front axle without realizing it.
Good segment but incomplete advice. Your snow blower or rear implement attachment is correct advice - for front to rear balance but it excludes the left side to right side balance stability. Water in rear tires adds substantial weight on either side of the tractors centre line. This is majorly important when traversing across slopes as the majority of the weight distribution is lower than the tracto
rs actual centre of mass. Also if you fill the rear tires to 2/3 of volume, you still have 1/3 of the fire filled with air. I find the this still gives a comfortable ride when driving.
In northern coastal New South Wales where the temperature rarely get below freezing, most tractors have water in the rear tyres. It costs very little and is usually a zero cost upgrade when buying a tractor. My MX5200 has water in the rear tyres. It also came with a 600 kg 3 point counterweight. I think both are needed when using the loader.
I think the manual for my tractor recommends fluid in the rear tyres.
I just keep the Backhoe on ( forget its there) an lower the the rear tire pressure to 8psi ( on r4s with NO tire fill fluids) on my MX5200 & EVERYTHING Works Great!
@@donaldstrishock3923 my tractor does not have a backhoe. I've heard backhoes are a bit top heavy. Is this true? My place has steep hills so I like to keep the weight down low. The tyres on my tractor are R1 ag tyres. They work well as the tractor is rarely driven on hard surfaces.
@@kdegraa Whats "kool" with a backhoe, One can "strech it out with Extree counter-weight in the bucket-thumb & even swing the "Extree" Load sideways on the slopes. A 600 lb counter weight is a good start. Tire fluid just "slosses around" ALL the time Throughing "Dynamic Weight" OUT OF KILTER all the time. BEST wishes with all your endeavours.
Thank you for explaining why you my friend do "NOT" put ballist in rear tires. My 19000 pound Backhoe has counter WT. On front. The Backhoe tool is part of the main frame. So I need Wt. On front. I will say at my work. We had a (NH) subcompact that we used to load, 1 Ton dumps with gravel. There was NO counter Wt. on the back. You could NOT dig into gravel without rear lifting up. Your explanation though is great for a subcompact, say a guy "MOWS" his Big Lawn, it's uneven ground, you are so right, his ride with a rear tire filled ballist will be like driving a bulldozer, and will be jarring on the back. The guy who was NOT going to remove his Backhoe attachment on subcompact, that alone is your counterweight.
Neil is correct. Loaded tires are for traction or helping on hills, which is why I loaded mine. A rear implement or my Heavy Hitch is for offsetting the loader.
Neil loved the kid at the end 😄 Great video, keep up the good work 👍
Hi Neil good video back when I was moving around the holiday camp with a BX 2350 loader used 4 * 25 kg weights + 1 * 50 kg on the 3pt links When mowing no loader weights on front leaving a mower on wood not have worked for us Thanks again
Absolutely correct. The lever arm of an implement far outweighs tire ballast
I choose loaded rear tires because it gives me the option to not need to have something on the hitch..like when doing loader work in the trees. Also something like a landscape rake isnt heavy enough for 20hp+ tractor to really help.
My JD loader manual recommends I use all three at the same time loaded tires, wheel weights, and weight on the back. I think the total was to be approximately 1000 lbs. for max loader use.
Kubota also sells a “Ballast Box” that goes on the three point hitch and you fill it with your choice of aggregate. In my area that box is supplied with the tractor free of charge.
My area offered the box scraper.
Thankful you left the son in…it’s good balance. 😉😊👊🏻
I use my BX2370 mainly for mowing my yard so I wonder just how much removing tire ballast would help ride quality. If it was worth the switch I could always add wheel weights.
I put weight on the front of my tractor. I find with the weight it doesn't go through front tires as much. I have a 25 foot 1/2 inch chain and 2 - 15 inch long railroad rails it's about 180 lbs. Year round.
Good, I don't feel bad from never putting ballast in my TYM T474's rear tires. I have done just fine these last three years doing so, doing both logging and skidding.
Another problem with fluid in tire ballast is that you can't easily take it out. All other options, aside from maybe a backhoe, can be taken out in seconds or a few minutes.
Adding ballast to the rear tires, just puts weight in the rear of the tractor holding the rear of the tractor down. It does not unload the front axle. When lifting a heavy load it also makes the front axle the fulcrum. By adding a implement or ballast box to the rear of the tractor, the fulcrum moves to the rear of the tractor. Lightening some of the load off the front axle. Just my opinion.
I have full ballast in the rear tires and a 6' land plane on my tractor and sometimes I ride on the front tires because the grapple can lift so much.
all depends on what your doing I got my l3901 loaded with rim guard works great for me but it will leave small tire depressions In the yard but thats not normally wat I use it for but if I did do more landscaping stuff with it I wouldn't have them filled
It's not just about the number of lbs you add but more importantly where you add them. Ballast in your tires will lower your tractor's center of gravity and make it safer on hills.
I dont have the tires filled on my t494. I have the backhoe on when lifting anything heavy and so far have not felt the need to fill the tires. But i'm mostly just lifting 2,000lbs logs. in the spring ill be moving pallets of pavers which may cause me to reconsider the ballast.
Great video Neil 😁 I too run without fluid filled tires because I mow my lawn and do loader work. I have a 700 pound ballast box on a B2601 for loader work if needed. What do you think about tire pressure I run only 10psi in my rear tires and the ride is smooth plus I feel like I get more traction with more tread on the ground in the snow. Thanks for the video 😁👍🚜💨🍳
Great points, Neill!👍
I made 3 point hitch weight with 55 gallon drum and concrete. It weighs almost 1000 pounds. I use it on my Kubota L4701. We need the counter weight for moving heavy round bales for the horses. The concrete drum works very well.
I think my BX23S manual says not to run loaded tires with the BH on. No point in ever filling my tires if I have to empty them every time I want to hook up the BH.
I use my tractor for mowing, so I to use weight or an implement on the 3pt for my counter balance.
That’s why I carry a box blade. I’m also not a fan of what the back implement AND tire ballast does to rear wheel housing bearings over time. No tire ballast here.
I just fill my tires with depleted uranium pellets. 27 gallons in each tire gives you 1,850lbs per tire and combined it's right about 3,700lbs of ballast. Plus cancer.
But hey! I won't be worrying about lifting the rear axle with the bucket, right?!
... don't worry, not actually doing anything like this, just a thought experiment as to what kind of weight you could get into a tire is you really, really really wanted to max out your ballast potential and depleted uranium is 1.6x denser than lead.
Ride quality diminishes only slightly with ballast only scenario you wouldn’t want it is the backhoe we’re it wouldn’t be removed or compaction on a small tractor mowing lawn etc
What’s the best way to take weight off the front axel if you use a 3 point mower that runs on the ground because then no weight is added to the back of the tractor.
Front weights, front loader.
When I had my old bx2200 I felt quite safe with just a rear attachment on. But when I got my new 2680 with cab, even with my finish mower on, it felt extremely unstable so I filled my tires.
Now move on to larger tractors, my 135 massey Ferguson needs fluid in the rear tires or it’s absolutely useless doing things like plowing. But my plow is have enough I require a few hundred pounds of front ballast to keep control of the front end
I also choose not to use fluid filled rear tires due the ride quality compromise with the minimum weight/balast benefit. Instead, I use my box blade with a quick connect/disconnect device which keeps me stable and results in a more comfortable ride. If more blast weight is needed for that heavier loader work task, I install my brush hog mower on the rear....and mine is probably the heaviest on today's market for my tractor size. Yes, my turning radius is compromised but that is a very small condition to tolerate to the alternative of a turned over tractor.
I have an LX2610SU with a loader and backhoe, my tires are filled with ballast because my property is very hilly and I feel it may add some stability on grades. Any thoughts?
Yes. Tires ballast does help with stability better than an implement would
You need a Good Works Tractor VersaBracket and 8 70lb weights :) Beats having a large implement back there that could inadvertently cause or take damage. And they're Quick Hitch compatible.
My question would be about my lx2610 that has tire ballast. when I'm using my bucket, I put on my Kubota weight box that I filled with concrete (probably 500 pounds). Do I still need that tire ballast when Im scooping a almost full bucket of gravel? I like the idea of taking the ballast out of the tires since the tractor is really rough (ab work out) when Im in my field with the brush hog. I like the idea of having air for a better ride.
So yea, that's exactly my thinking.
I keep my tractor off the lawn. The more weight, the better the traction. I use ballast and implement all the time. And yes, I have a backhoe, it's just not on all the time.
If you don't plan on pulling implements from the drawbar and really only using 3pt attachements, there really isn't much point to adding fluid to the tires unless one needs the extra weight if requiring more traction.
My opinion is that if a loader goes on, some sort of ballast should go with it. Tires loaded or wheel weights. You can't fix stupid, so don't depend on the operator to put something on the back for weight.
How about a ballast box?
The liquid ballast adds weight when you are calculating the capacity of your trailer.
Problems with this… my little BX was undrivable, even with the brush hog on the back. After filling the tires it rode much better, could go more places, and was FAR more stable.
If your primary use is going to be mowing with a 3 point or belly mower, you don't necessarily need or want that additional weight compacting your grass.
But for loader work, you definitely want additional rear ballast for stability, like loaded tires.
Know what your primary use is going to be and accessorize appropriately for function and safety.
'Take the money from filling your tires and put it toward a heavy implement...' what implements are you selling for the $57 it took to fill my tires with 800 plus pounds of methanol? Granted, my tire shop is awesome, but even with rim guard or the like, there are not many heavy implements in that category.
I have also found that even with the tires filled, sometimes I need my box blade with the 55gallon drum of water on it. The tires being filled makes it to where the tractor is usable without an implement for loader work. Sometimes you have to get in tight spaces.
neal neal neal when a ag tractor is ballast with fluid is not 100% full the air space at the top of the tire is the cussion i keep mine at 10 psi and do not decrease the ride quality having said that your milage may vary
Half the reason why people fill their tires is for side to side stability on slopes.
is your snow blower on backwards?
Nope. inverted snow blower.
I have also had liquid balance in my big tractor: but now I have small tractor no liquid balance in this tractor. No need to have any in this small tractor cause it’s has backhoe on it.
I'm curious what percentage of new tractors leave your dealership with the tires filled
Most
Just curious on what your dealership fills with?
@@jimmcknight3021 methanal
The more weight you put behind the rear axle, the more weight you take off the front axle.
But when filling tyres the valve is up at 12 a'clock = there will be ~25% empty that then is filled with air. One bonus is that the fluid pushes the tyre to the ground = there is no aircushion between.
My opinion is that if the implement in the rear is a little to heavy the tractor can start to swing. Hit a bump and the front tyres "leave for space". A backblade with hydraulic turn and movement can do funny things when the weight is 4-6 feet behind the back tyres.
I have once pushed a front tyre of the rim lifting to much, never want to do that again. The backblade attached, heavy wet snow in the big bucket and a little to much turn on the front wheels... I know that I shouldn't turn the wheels with big loads lifted, but sometimes operator errors happen 😱😥🤣.
I have tires filled with my box blade on the back.
I don't have ballast; because, I trailer my tractor 1,200 miles back and forth multiple times a year. Leaving my counterweights at the destination.
If I loaded the tires with fluid it would provide problems with trailer loads. I'm getting ready to carry a 1,000# of fertilizer on the trailer with my unballested tractor with rotary spreader(light weight). Heavier tires would overload the trailer. .
Although I do agree, I also cringe every time I see my son whipping around with a $2,800 tiller hanging off the back of our tractor for ballast, and I give him hell for it. I also have a three point snow blower, and know they don't come cheap. One hit into a post, tree or other immovable object can do enough damage to throw off the geometry of either of the two implements I just mentioned, causing more issues than you will ever want to deal with, not to mention to the three point and the rear PTO. This is why I'm a big proponent of ballast in tires, as well as on the rear three point (close in). A ballast box is cheap at under $300, and even cheaper to build as most of us have.
Yea, have backed my flail mower into trees more than once.
Liquid removes the possibility of putting leak stop rather than have to remove and patch it. Saves a bunch of time and money too
With my back hoe on and my tires filled my front end gets light when climbing up hills.
In my case I have a sub-compact tractor...adding fluid to the tires would be a terrible idea...I do use my BX2680 to mow my lawn occasionally, so having the weight of those fluid filled tires would be a horrible idea for the lawn....Like you Neal, I just put an attachment/implement on the 3 point when I'm doing loader work, seems to work pretty well that way...no loader work at all without an implement on the back since the tractor weighs next to nothing in the first place LOL....To me its just easier to have an attachment or implement on the 3 point than deal with the results/effects of fluid in the tires...I guess if I was just out working in the woods, or a field, or something of that nature, ballast in the tires might make sense, but for many people who are doing things in their yard, or otherwise driving across their lawn all the time, that extra weight in the tires all the time would be a bad idea, with a removable implement/attachment on the back that you can simply take off when you aren't needing the weight, makes a lot more sense.
The only issue with having an attachment/implement on the back is if you are working in a tight space, but I'm sure you could add wheel weights for those cases, or some sort of a rear weight bracket on the 3 point probably could be fabricated.
My last video shows why rear balance is a must.Shame on me.
Ive got a Grand L 4060 so much bigger than your tractor and it has hundreds of lbs of water in the rear tires. I see no need to remove the water. The water doesn't add any stress to the tractors frame because the weight is not constantly loaded on the tractor but it is loaded on to the earth. If I need way more weight I just hook my big ass land pride 700 lb rotary cutter to the 3 point.
Not a luxury car. Fill your tires if you have a loader...
What we need to do is stop making these light duty tractors do heavy-duty tractor work.