The Hourglass i still think is the worst twist maybe ever, since the level of foolishness it takes for them to craft it in the planning process. What mentality would you need to have to think it was an actual choice, rather than a forgone conclusion. A twist should never lead to a single possibility. Any twist at least some sort variance, and it has absolutely 0.
I just can't fathom how they thought including Erica on one of the tribes was a good idea. I'm not saying it would've been a good twist, but she needed to either be exempt or at risk regardless of her decision. At least then there would have actually been a decision to make. If she was up for elimination, she could consider which tribe she'd be more likely to be voted out with. We're she safe, which would lead to better outcomes for her allies
For real, the only time it's not a complete no-brainer is in the 0.0001% chance that somehow your entire alliance/tribe is safe except for you unless you don't break it. But even in that remote possibility you're keeping them away from camp for 48 hours, and at the start of the merge, so paranoia would probably still make most people play it safe and break it anyway.
@@kevwwong That entire episode needed the Z tier, because the entire idea of "you get randomly paired up, then you merge but only 4 people are eligible to be voted out and one of them isn't even there to socialize or strategize" belongs in the garbage bin.
I think the Knowledge is Power is a really cool advantage in a season where people don't have to openly state they have an idol/advantage. I think it can require a lot of social awareness and can create some really fun moments like Xander and Liana
I agree that it could be more interesting if it wasn’t present on a season where everyone already knew who had idols because they had to say the secret phrases.
**Sweat vs Savvy** is one that you missed that I think is just a way to soak up airtime. The challenges are sometimes okay, but the way it was implemented in 45 was just unfair to both tribes having to participate. Having a chance to not have your machete/pot/flint for the first two days feels bad, but it's not very necessary given the shorter season and the availability of precut bamboo and potable water from the get-go. Makes coconuts harder to open I guess. **D** at best. **Losing flint** when you lose an immunity challenge also just seems like a way to accelerate a snowball effect for winning tribes. It's just unnecessary when the winning tribes already get a reward which will benefit them for future challenges as well. Given the interviews from past new-era contestants, fire isn't even that important because you're away from camp a lot of the time, food is so scarce, and the aforementioned potable water. **E** tier for me.
I would put Island of the Idols much lower than B tier for the same reason that you said you weren't big on mixed returnee/newbie seasons. I want to see the 18-20 new players play and that's much harder to do when I know that a good chunk of each episode is going to be dedicated to yet another dose of Sandra and Rob saying obvious things about how to play the game. It was especially infuriated when we knew we were going to see them again actually playing the game the very next season.
I'm still confused about the Inheritance advantage. Does it allow the player to gain all used advantages and just kinda keep them to use over the course of the season? Or does it apply the effects of said advantages to the user during said same tribal council? IE. If one player uses an extra vote and one player uses an idol at tribal, does that player now gain immunity and an extra vote during that tribal, or do they get an extra vote and idol in their pocket to bring back to camp? Never really understood the wording there.
they get the advantages BACK at camp AFTEE tribal council. meaning if they get voted out after using the Inheritance, they get nothing. so if they use it, they must be able to go back to camp to "claim" any of the other advantages played. pause the vid when Sarah hold it. :)
I’m still missing the regular opening music! The song is sooo linked with excitement!!! Kids grown up to remember when it was part of staying up late… gathering snacks and looking forward to being glued to the tv. Please bring t back! 😌😌😌
Do or Die is so confusing of a twist for me, like instead of a vote which is like the thing that separates survivor from other shows and then instead of a vote off with like social tensions and stuff the producers decide they need to spice it up, so what do they do? Let’s make one of them open a box at the F7 and if they choose wrong they’re out In what world is opening a box more entertains than a vote at F7 the literal freaking endgame
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Tribe Leader twist Samoa had going for it, having one person make a bunch of the tribe decisions including who to send to the other tribe. I thought it made for a more fun season personally.
Personally I think the extra vote/bank a vote and knowledge is power are a bit better. Extra votes haven't had much of an impact, but they're not overly complex and do sometimes allow for interesting moves. And while it's true kip hasn't been used successfully, it's presence has led to the shuffling of idols and advantages in a way that facilitates interesting social play, so I don't mind it being around
Extra Vote single handedly changed the course of 42 at the final 6. KIP only works if you don’t tell anyone. It’ll be interesting if it has an bigger impact in a new season.
For a game that has such a strong element of deception, forcing someone to tell the truth because you found a piece of paper seems pretty lame to me. Though it's caused a couple interesting moments (Xander's fake idol and Jessie having Jeanine's idol are the only two I can think of) it's worn out its welcome imo. The only real impact it's had on the game is because it failed
@@crazyinsanepenguin I get that but keep in mind on paper KIP keeps that deception because if you don't tell anyone, its a massive shock kind of like a huge idol play or blindside. The reason it feels that way is because no one who's gotten it knows how to keep their mouth shut.
I've seen others say KIP only works when there aren't other twists (e.g. Beware advantages) that make idols/advantages more public. It has produced interesting gameplay at times but not ideal in the current era of survivor advantages.
@@frerejacques4391 That's fair to say. Although technically the beware advantage making idols public isn't the real issue. Has it showcases why KIP has upside yes, but if the holder keeps silent, Idols being public or private wouldn't change the outcome if KIP holder pulls it off.
Forced firemaking should be lower, it kills ll momentum in the endgame. Instead of players talking about strategy and how to make that final cut before the finale, we have to spend like ten minutes on players talking about how to make fire, show players practicing make fire, have the F4 immunity winner vaguely discuss who they want to send to fire because the show has to be coy about it and finally, we have to watch another ten minutes of people making a fire and they all go the same way each season (oh they’ve got fire, is this it, are they gonna do it? oh nooo the fire is going out but wait, the other person has fire, they might do it!). It’s boring and I always find my eyes turning to my phone as soon as the final immunity challenge is over.
The Do-Or-Die thing, is in Dutch Survivor aswell. it's called Chance and got introduced at the newest season, and caused MASSIVE drama. But, the user got out due to her not being able to stack coins.
I love Survivor trying new twists, but you're right about so many of them. The last few seasons have been over-full of them. As far as hidden idols, I see them as I see the Borg in Star Trek - - - OVERUSED so much that they lose their effect.
On the latest episode Survivor Netherlands did the Do Or Die twist, but slightly different: Instead of putting the thing at a specific round it was instead presented as a mystery advantage a player won. The player carrying it could use it to enter the 3 boxes game after getting voted out, and if successful they would compete in a duel with the person who got the second highest number of votes. Winner of the duel gets to stay whereas the loser is out. Survivor Netherlands isn't the most exciting or well-thought version by a long shot but imo this twist on the DoD works a bit better. Anyone else here got thoughts on that?
Consider this Peridiam: Shot in the Dark forces every player to have a story for every other player. You can't have someone know they're going home. No more "easy votes." And look how Matthew used it.
You should’ve added Returning Players (or all-stars), instant S-tier. It’s the twist that see your past favorite Survivor contestants to play 1 more time.
I kind of like the idea of redemption island, I think the execution just needs work. It needs to be something shorter to not take away screen time. What if tribal council were held at the arena, and the person voted out immediately had to perform in a duel against the previous person voted out? Each episode would end with a duel, and a torch snuffing. The person on redemption would observe tribal council, potentially from the tribe they were not a part of, and only the tribe that attended tribal would know who was currently on redemption island. Outside of this last scene of the episode, redemption island would not be given any screen time, as there is only ever one person there at a time.
@@Peridiam I tried to find the clip on youtube but only the part of the conversation after they talk about you is on there. Which one of your fantastic videos was it in again?
Question: Does the fact that EoE was used to lure people such as Parvarti onto WaW make its appearance in 40 redeemable? I think it could have worked if fire tokens were not a factor (and maybe only a merge redemption challenge, or making the second at final 7 or 8).
shot in the dark is strange because it means basically every vote out(unless it's already been previously used by the target) means that anyone and everyone has a low odds immunity idol ready to go once in the game. It's the flip a coin idol but less chance of working and you lose your vote outright. It can make things super tense, but it ultimatly means that someone can survive through sheer luck and remove someone in a desperate situation. We've seen only one time where a player was totally out of options so far(Bhanu, in a season afterthis video) he managed tosomehow get himself into such a bad position that he hadno idol(Cause someone already found it) his tribe mates were done babying him and the advantage he could have earned he was unable to actually get which meant he lost his vote(Thus he lost the shot) Basically what I'm saying is that despite it being nearly impossible to not have the shot in the dark one person has actually found it. And it was both sad and kinda funny to see someone so entirely screwed. That being said it's low odds has made it super unreliable and we've hardly heard anyone speak of it after a couple seasons, as even the contestants would rather have a vote than chance having nothing. I mean that's literally how the first use of it went with Sydney, had she not used it she'd have likely survived.
Do Or Die is absolutely horrendous. I remember absolutely hating it when it was introduced and I'm thrilled it was on for only 41 and 42 (not to mention how happy I was that in both cases they chose the correct box).
The inheritance advantage should give you all the advantages. But, you can only use 1, and they are ranked in order. For example, you get a idol, Steal a vote, extra vote, safety without power These get 4 get ranked, and the best one expires after the next tribal. The second best expires after following tribal. The third best expires after that one. And the last one expires on the last day to use an advantages.
Redemption Island my pushback on this is that it might be lame but gotta say it looked so epic. Going to this ancient Guatamalan pyramid ball court thing whatever to have a crowd of your peers cheering you on or booing you its like on some sci-fi fantasy pulp novel you buy from a gas station shit and I love it for that. The actual game consequences leave much to be desired.
On survivor Reddit (Reddit is hell, I know), every Friday somebody post a whose line after the episode airs (while a season is airing, not every Friday). It’s pretty fun to take part in (it’s mainly scenes from a hat inspired, but you get a hoedown every now and then.
i know this is a tier ranking of twists [mechanically] but funnily enough if we ranked it based on the entertainment value it provided in the real time, knowledge is power is highkey A tier because it gave us the yase 3 v liana bait and switch, omar's manipulation of mike and drea, advantage hot potato in 43 leading to jesse stealing jeanine's idol... i mean! we can't deny!
Unpopular opinion, but I love Redemption Island. It's such an interesting concept to me, and allows for people to have a second chance at getting back in the game. I think EoE is too much, at least in RI you have to win from the point you're out, all the way until you get back in, whereas both times EoE happened (S38 & S40), we saw a player get back in at the endgame after being voted out in the first few episodes (Chris & Natalie), after just winning one competition.
I think Redemption Island could work if it's tweaked a bit. Maybe take something from Last Chance Kitchen and have the elimination matches happen in secret from the remaining players. EOE in S40 still wasn't great, but I get why it was in play, and I did appreciate that they gave the eliminated players something to do instead of just sitting around.
How would you rank the traditional double tribal which debuted in Pearl Islands (but really Vanuatu)? It's probably the most prominent twist you didn't address in this video.
I honestly think the super idol is at least B-Tier if not A-Tier twist if it was not the only form of idol in the game. Like I understand hating it in Cook Islands where it was the sole idol in the game and entirely takes the suspense out of one tribal council, but it was amazing in Cagayan and Kâoh Rōng because there are still other normal idols where there is no telling when and if a normal idol or a super idol will be played
what are your thoughts on the individual immunity round of the premerge. like the one where both tribes go to separate tribals but one person from each is immune
It's ok. I didn't include it because it's just a different way to hide the idols. Instead of being hidden they're out in the open... but now you have to find a key. Kinda similar to the idol. The producers creating fake idols is a different story. I probably should've included that one. I think that's not great.
To be fair the juries make it so terrible at least they pushed back on it this season. Its not impressive enough to be a instant win the season Jesus. Edit: meant LAST season not spoilers
I may have missed it, but are the other "vote" advantages not considered a "twist"? The steal-a-votes, the block-a-vote, oh and you forgot to mention the bank-a-vote was first introduced in season 35 when it was "earned" by another Lauren. And choose-your-champion was first intro in Island of the Idols when Sandra and BRob gave (another) Lauren the chance to bet on two people to win immunity and if they win she gets an idol, she chose Elisabeth and Noura. Are the LAURENs of Survivor the most to have advantages???
As someone, who started with s41-s44 and now started to watch the old survivor... I like the twists in the newer seasons. They add more to the game, feel strong, but not too strong, the beware Advantage is fun to watch... Only the Hourglas is weak in my opinion
Which older seasons have you watched, because in my opinion the newer seasons are terrible because of one reason: there are no villains. Parvati and Russel and rob and Cirie are all entertaining to watch because they are some of the best at the game and they also add villains
i just want more input on S32 Kaoh rong twist. i really enjoyed the season and we're def not talking about that but more of do u think it would've changed the ned of the season out right? all i see is michelle and tai in the top 2. michelle convinced tai that aubry was sus and the general consensus from most other contestants (being joe and neil) was that michelle was just a ride along. in both cases i feel like she wins wins jury over with scot, jason and still probably debbie right?
Edge of Extinction could be D tier for me if they made some changes. For example, they should allow only one person to win their way back into the game at the merge and end it after that. That's better than someone coming back in at the merge and final 5. Coming back in at final 5 is way too late in the game. I actually enjoyed seeing some of the pre-jury members in the game longer. It gave us more time with some cool characters like Reem, Rick Devens, and Chris Underwood. Also, I would put Redemption Island in D tier. It's less broken than EOE, but it should end after the merge as well
This should be a video I still think there should be a bizarro year before Probst gets too old where they swap hosts, Probst would do TAR, the TAR guy would do Big Brother and Julie could do Survivor. I am sure the TAR guy is bored to death of traveling and I want to see a new host react to things. Tar guy would be maybe funnier than Julie and Julie on an Island she would be fine as hell in beach clothes.
And hidden idols are good but there is a clear dividing line between the early days and now. HvV Tyson blindside good, HHH Ben idoling his way to victory bad. They are basically at crutch now that allows subpar players make it far and even win the game.
I think it's so funny that "Expect the Unexpected" Big Brother is formulaic and repetitive, as well as defined by the big alliance meta, making it extremely predictable, and Survivor is just throwing random darts at a board to create artificial excitement, but also has found itself committed to formula in the new era, making it predictable as well
Big Brother did something similar in BB6. It was a great twist, despite the cast eventually figuring it out. I would also really love to see this. It would only work with an all-newbie cast, though.
Shot in the dark is probably b tier for me. It makes blindsides so important. Wish it had better odds over time(each unsuccessful use) up to 1/3 or something. Only new era twist I like
Shot in the Dark would be more effective and interesting if each failed draw reduced the amount of scrolls to draw from for future tribals. So if a scroll is drawn and doesn't grant immunity, there would be a 1/5 chance for subsequent tribals. This would either reset to 1/6 once a successful Shot in the Dark is drawn, or just end for the rest of the season. I'd lean towards the former. The twist though has had the consequence of making tribals more boring. The threat of someone playing Shot in the Dark has required those blindsides as you've mentioned, which means players are less incentivized to speak honestly at tribal. It leads to a bunch of analogies that get stale over time. This is part of the reason I like Emily from 45 because she just throws it all out there without a filter.
@@Sliacen I was thinking the same on the shot in the dark chances. Do you think it’s to blame for bad tribals, the casting of more aware/knowledgeable players or Jeff’s questioning? I hate the analogies & tc conversations in the new era. Pointless
This just confirms my feelings that there is WAY too many advantages (esp in the early days of the new era), that Do or Die is the absolute worst (it made me so angry and I'm so glad it went away), Jonathan and Wanda's insta-out is also the absolute worst. 😂 I totally get Jeff has to keep things spicy and fresh, and some things work out and some things need tweaking and some things don't work in the execution of it. I appreciate that they try things out. BUT sometimes things should NEVER have been tried (* side eyes the hourglass and Do or Die * 😂)
I can’t remember now if you mentioned it, but different number of starting tribes. (2, 3 or 4) as I feel like it changes up the game so much. Also least favorite twist of all time and makes me so mad was Do or Die because it literally gets rid of the core of what survivor should be
In theory, I like the shot in the dark, but it’s just not going to give us the wow factor in its current state. I feel like most people who use it are just paranoid, not reading the social game correctly in the way that they would with an idol play, and the actual chances of being safe are so slim. It would genuinely be amazing tv IF someone chooses to play it, they were the target, and they get safety but that’s so many ifs.
I’ve always been of the mind that one world would’ve been a much better twist if it wasn’t men vs women. Obviously tribe lines are strong on most seasons but when you make something men vs women both sides get blinders feeling they are competing for the gender as a whole vs for themselves. Without men vs women, i feel the tribes would’ve flowed more and been more interactive vs what we got
I know what you said in the beginning, but due to the impact on the particular player(s) that season, I have to ask... Why not mention the Survivor China player swaps? I still feel bad for Aaron!
Contrary to most other people, I actually don't mind twists like Redemption Island or Edge of Extinction, it gives people a chance to redeem themselves after basically blowing it at the beginning or middle of the game. I can't say they're the best twists ever, but I don't think they are the worst either.
Not having the final 3 as the worst twist in Survivor history is actually such a horrible take. it’s the change to the show that kickstarted its death and opened up the show to all subsequent bad twists.
@@hunteratops Gotta strongly disagree with that. It didn’t kickstart the shows death. Many of the shows best seasons have a final 3. It hasn’t changed the show enough to be considered the worst twist in survivor history. It’s for sure not worse than the do or die or hourglass twist lol. If you think survivor went downhill since it started final 3 then you must really only like old school survivor
Edge of Extinction for season 40 should be separate because it was great. As long as the winner doesnt come from there and we see Ethan all season, it's S tier. Hence why it's only acceptable on season 40.
Do or Die could be cool if the punishment for falling out of the immunity challenge first was something smaller, like losing your vote for 1 or 2 tribals. The idea of having to decide whether you'll compete is actually pretty interesting, like how it lead to a 1v1 in 42. The current version just feels too gimmicky with the Monty Hall problem and the chance of going home without recieving votes. But I think immunity challenges are the most natural context for the "Will you risk your vote for immunity" dilemma, so Do or Die has potential to be adapted into a good minor twist
Agreed, if it wasn’t Monty Hall and instead pure chance where you choose between the three boxes whether you lose your vote or not it’s a lot more exciting and would eat up less time on the show. I also think vote shenanigans are more exciting than someone just straight up going out of the game because they picked a box, mainly because the other players have to work around the possibility of someone’s vote being an unknown variable. The iteration we saw just didn’t require much strategizing, f.e. in 41 all they had to account for was the situation in which Deshawn would pick the right box. Either he goes out or he’s immune and we’ll just vote out Liana. It doesn’t allow for exciting strategy, in fact it’s as straight forward as it could possibly get.
Legitimately there’s no tension, will Deshawn or Lindsay be able to open the right box or will we have a safe vote The boxes are so dumb too I feel like they should do a fire making challenge or something more related to survival then opening a damn box in a drawn out 5 minute scene.
I think the best penalty is being "marked for elimination" which means you have no vote at tribal AND an automatic vote cast against you. It puts a humungous target on your back if you lose but there's still room to maneuver out of it.
Any twist that allows a player to come back after being voted out is a non-starter. If Survivor ever does this again, that will be a season that I pass on. If you get voted out, you lose...period. A not so close second is the hourglass, or similar twist where by losing you get to win instead. Winning should have rewards and losing have consequences.
The schoolyard pick is a bit of a double edge sward your either going to get some of the funniest television ever see Gabon or it going to be a slow motion train wreck see Palau and Fiji.
I would love for Survivor to change up the Final 4 Firemaking. I don't inherently dislike it but it needs to be evolved. I have an idea of what I'd like to see but I'd also worry it would be a bit too complicated to explain in the show. My vision is that it would still be a duel between two people at the tribal, but let's have the Final 4 challenge decide the aspects of the duel. At the final 4 challenge, if you come in last place, you are immediately thrown into the duel. If you come in 1st place, you decide on who the other opponent is competing in the duel. Now, the 2nd place finisher will get to decide what type of duel it will be. The only information you'd get is a basic explanation of the type of duel you can choose from (i.e puzzle, skill, endurance, firemaking, etc.) and you are only given 3 choices to choose from. The specific challenge is not revealed until after it has been decided on. Both 1st and 2nd place would place their vote for their respective piece at tribal. I'd think there would be a lot of strategic talk between what and who is chosen. Want to make sure last place makes it to final tribal? Pick a duel they'll be good at. Still have a jury threat in the game? Throw them in the duel hoping they'll get eliminated. I didn't want to give both decisions to 1st place as I feel like that is too much power for one person to have and splitting it up feels like it gives other players agency.
Without a doubt do or die is my least favorite twist especially in season 42 because if Lindsey would have been eliminated we would not have had the amazing Drea vote off that episode
Peridiam before Season 45 starts I wanna say thank you for the wonderful and entertaining Survivor content over the years
💓
The Hourglass i still think is the worst twist maybe ever, since the level of foolishness it takes for them to craft it in the planning process. What mentality would you need to have to think it was an actual choice, rather than a forgone conclusion. A twist should never lead to a single possibility. Any twist at least some sort variance, and it has absolutely 0.
I just can't fathom how they thought including Erica on one of the tribes was a good idea. I'm not saying it would've been a good twist, but she needed to either be exempt or at risk regardless of her decision. At least then there would have actually been a decision to make.
If she was up for elimination, she could consider which tribe she'd be more likely to be voted out with. We're she safe, which would lead to better outcomes for her allies
For real, the only time it's not a complete no-brainer is in the 0.0001% chance that somehow your entire alliance/tribe is safe except for you unless you don't break it. But even in that remote possibility you're keeping them away from camp for 48 hours, and at the start of the merge, so paranoia would probably still make most people play it safe and break it anyway.
There needs to be a "Z" Tier for things like the Hourglass twist.
@@kevwwong That entire episode needed the Z tier, because the entire idea of "you get randomly paired up, then you merge but only 4 people are eligible to be voted out and one of them isn't even there to socialize or strategize" belongs in the garbage bin.
Yep, the hourglass twist had Jeff lie to Sydney and Lydia.
I think the Knowledge is Power is a really cool advantage in a season where people don't have to openly state they have an idol/advantage. I think it can require a lot of social awareness and can create some really fun moments like Xander and Liana
I agree that it could be more interesting if it wasn’t present on a season where everyone already knew who had idols because they had to say the secret phrases.
I have been wanting the one world twist return so bad. Just cause you made bad casting for that season doesn’t mean it’s a bad twist.
**Sweat vs Savvy** is one that you missed that I think is just a way to soak up airtime. The challenges are sometimes okay, but the way it was implemented in 45 was just unfair to both tribes having to participate. Having a chance to not have your machete/pot/flint for the first two days feels bad, but it's not very necessary given the shorter season and the availability of precut bamboo and potable water from the get-go. Makes coconuts harder to open I guess. **D** at best.
**Losing flint** when you lose an immunity challenge also just seems like a way to accelerate a snowball effect for winning tribes. It's just unnecessary when the winning tribes already get a reward which will benefit them for future challenges as well. Given the interviews from past new-era contestants, fire isn't even that important because you're away from camp a lot of the time, food is so scarce, and the aforementioned potable water. **E** tier for me.
I would put Island of the Idols much lower than B tier for the same reason that you said you weren't big on mixed returnee/newbie seasons. I want to see the 18-20 new players play and that's much harder to do when I know that a good chunk of each episode is going to be dedicated to yet another dose of Sandra and Rob saying obvious things about how to play the game. It was especially infuriated when we knew we were going to see them again actually playing the game the very next season.
I'm still confused about the Inheritance advantage. Does it allow the player to gain all used advantages and just kinda keep them to use over the course of the season? Or does it apply the effects of said advantages to the user during said same tribal council? IE. If one player uses an extra vote and one player uses an idol at tribal, does that player now gain immunity and an extra vote during that tribal, or do they get an extra vote and idol in their pocket to bring back to camp? Never really understood the wording there.
they get the advantages BACK at camp AFTEE tribal council.
meaning if they get voted out after using the Inheritance, they get nothing.
so if they use it, they must be able to go back to camp to "claim" any of the other advantages played.
pause the vid when Sarah hold it. :)
oh wow that's fucking broken in the hands of a strong alliance at a big merge vote@@myperspectiveisimnotblind
I’m still missing the regular opening music! The song is sooo linked with excitement!!! Kids grown up to remember when it was part of staying up late… gathering snacks and looking forward to being glued to the tv. Please bring t back! 😌😌😌
I like the Koah Rong version of the idols. Its harder to get two idols to create it than just finding one idol with too much power.
Do or Die is so confusing of a twist for me, like instead of a vote which is like the thing that separates survivor from other shows and then instead of a vote off with like social tensions and stuff the producers decide they need to spice it up, so what do they do? Let’s make one of them open a box at the F7 and if they choose wrong they’re out
In what world is opening a box more entertains than a vote at F7 the literal freaking endgame
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Tribe Leader twist Samoa had going for it, having one person make a bunch of the tribe decisions including who to send to the other tribe. I thought it made for a more fun season personally.
Well done, Billy. Thank you for making great content.
I have 0 memory of the Inheritance Advantage
College survivor is basically One World every time, and it adds to the game every time.
Personally I think the extra vote/bank a vote and knowledge is power are a bit better. Extra votes haven't had much of an impact, but they're not overly complex and do sometimes allow for interesting moves. And while it's true kip hasn't been used successfully, it's presence has led to the shuffling of idols and advantages in a way that facilitates interesting social play, so I don't mind it being around
Extra Vote single handedly changed the course of 42 at the final 6. KIP only works if you don’t tell anyone. It’ll be interesting if it has an bigger impact in a new season.
For a game that has such a strong element of deception, forcing someone to tell the truth because you found a piece of paper seems pretty lame to me. Though it's caused a couple interesting moments (Xander's fake idol and Jessie having Jeanine's idol are the only two I can think of) it's worn out its welcome imo. The only real impact it's had on the game is because it failed
@@crazyinsanepenguin I get that but keep in mind on paper KIP keeps that deception because if you don't tell anyone, its a massive shock kind of like a huge idol play or blindside. The reason it feels that way is because no one who's gotten it knows how to keep their mouth shut.
I've seen others say KIP only works when there aren't other twists (e.g. Beware advantages) that make idols/advantages more public. It has produced interesting gameplay at times but not ideal in the current era of survivor advantages.
@@frerejacques4391 That's fair to say. Although technically the beware advantage making idols public isn't the real issue. Has it showcases why KIP has upside yes, but if the holder keeps silent, Idols being public or private wouldn't change the outcome if KIP holder pulls it off.
Forced firemaking should be lower, it kills ll momentum in the endgame. Instead of players talking about strategy and how to make that final cut before the finale, we have to spend like ten minutes on players talking about how to make fire, show players practicing make fire, have the F4 immunity winner vaguely discuss who they want to send to fire because the show has to be coy about it and finally, we have to watch another ten minutes of people making a fire and they all go the same way each season (oh they’ve got fire, is this it, are they gonna do it? oh nooo the fire is going out but wait, the other person has fire, they might do it!). It’s boring and I always find my eyes turning to my phone as soon as the final immunity challenge is over.
The Do-Or-Die thing, is in Dutch Survivor aswell. it's called Chance and got introduced at the newest season, and caused MASSIVE drama. But, the user got out due to her not being able to stack coins.
They have NEVER had a revival twist that was an all newbie season aside from the Outcast twist, that tells you enough why the twists were made.
I love Survivor trying new twists, but you're right about so many of them. The last few seasons have been over-full of them. As far as hidden idols, I see them as I see the Borg in Star Trek - - - OVERUSED so much that they lose their effect.
On the latest episode Survivor Netherlands did the Do Or Die twist, but slightly different:
Instead of putting the thing at a specific round it was instead presented as a mystery advantage a player won. The player carrying it could use it to enter the 3 boxes game after getting voted out, and if successful they would compete in a duel with the person who got the second highest number of votes. Winner of the duel gets to stay whereas the loser is out.
Survivor Netherlands isn't the most exciting or well-thought version by a long shot but imo this twist on the DoD works a bit better. Anyone else here got thoughts on that?
Consider this Peridiam: Shot in the Dark forces every player to have a story for every other player. You can't have someone know they're going home. No more "easy votes." And look how Matthew used it.
Great video! I always enjoy how you explain every aspect
Did I miss your comments on the strange phrases twist? I loved it.
We play survivor to see ourselves in Peridiams videos
You should’ve added Returning Players (or all-stars), instant S-tier. It’s the twist that see your past favorite Survivor contestants to play 1 more time.
I felt bad for Jenny who got screwed in Cook Islands. 😂😂I also hated the instant elimination in Palau. We were robbed of more Wanda songs.
I kind of like the idea of redemption island, I think the execution just needs work. It needs to be something shorter to not take away screen time. What if tribal council were held at the arena, and the person voted out immediately had to perform in a duel against the previous person voted out? Each episode would end with a duel, and a torch snuffing. The person on redemption would observe tribal council, potentially from the tribe they were not a part of, and only the tribe that attended tribal would know who was currently on redemption island. Outside of this last scene of the episode, redemption island would not be given any screen time, as there is only ever one person there at a time.
Hey, remember the time that Tyler talked about you on the BB live feeds? Totally unrelated, but still.
Ian also mentioned me! Totally unrelated though, yeah.
@@Peridiam I tried to find the clip on youtube but only the part of the conversation after they talk about you is on there. Which one of your fantastic videos was it in again?
Question: Does the fact that EoE was used to lure people such as Parvarti onto WaW make its appearance in 40 redeemable? I think it could have worked if fire tokens were not a factor (and maybe only a merge redemption challenge, or making the second at final 7 or 8).
What about the bird cage twist?
shot in the dark is strange because it means basically every vote out(unless it's already been previously used by the target) means that anyone and everyone has a low odds immunity idol ready to go once in the game. It's the flip a coin idol but less chance of working and you lose your vote outright.
It can make things super tense, but it ultimatly means that someone can survive through sheer luck and remove someone in a desperate situation. We've seen only one time where a player was totally out of options so far(Bhanu, in a season afterthis video) he managed tosomehow get himself into such a bad position that he hadno idol(Cause someone already found it) his tribe mates were done babying him and the advantage he could have earned he was unable to actually get which meant he lost his vote(Thus he lost the shot)
Basically what I'm saying is that despite it being nearly impossible to not have the shot in the dark one person has actually found it. And it was both sad and kinda funny to see someone so entirely screwed.
That being said it's low odds has made it super unreliable and we've hardly heard anyone speak of it after a couple seasons, as even the contestants would rather have a vote than chance having nothing. I mean that's literally how the first use of it went with Sydney, had she not used it she'd have likely survived.
Do Or Die is absolutely horrendous. I remember absolutely hating it when it was introduced and I'm thrilled it was on for only 41 and 42 (not to mention how happy I was that in both cases they chose the correct box).
That last clip at the end 😂
I would have loved to see a different ranking or a quick mention of the ranked-schoolyard pick in Gabon from the usual schoolyard pick
The inheritance advantage should give you all the advantages.
But, you can only use 1, and they are ranked in order.
For example, you get a
idol, Steal a vote, extra vote, safety without power
These get 4 get ranked, and the best one expires after the next tribal.
The second best expires after following tribal.
The third best expires after that one.
And the last one expires on the last day to use an advantages.
Such a great idea!
Redemption Island my pushback on this is that it might be lame but gotta say it looked so epic. Going to this ancient Guatamalan pyramid ball court thing whatever to have a crowd of your peers cheering you on or booing you its like on some sci-fi fantasy pulp novel you buy from a gas station shit and I love it for that. The actual game consequences leave much to be desired.
Loved the Whose Line reference. Which actually makes me think that having some quick hit reward challenges (but no Hoedowns please) might be fun.
On survivor Reddit (Reddit is hell, I know), every Friday somebody post a whose line after the episode airs (while a season is airing, not every Friday). It’s pretty fun to take part in (it’s mainly scenes from a hat inspired, but you get a hoedown every now and then.
This could be a good list to keep in mind👀
i know this is a tier ranking of twists [mechanically] but funnily enough if we ranked it based on the entertainment value it provided in the real time, knowledge is power is highkey A tier because it gave us the yase 3 v liana bait and switch, omar's manipulation of mike and drea, advantage hot potato in 43 leading to jesse stealing jeanine's idol... i mean! we can't deny!
Well now I would love to see this for the Big Brother twists
BOB in F tier.
Unpopular opinion, but I love Redemption Island. It's such an interesting concept to me, and allows for people to have a second chance at getting back in the game. I think EoE is too much, at least in RI you have to win from the point you're out, all the way until you get back in, whereas both times EoE happened (S38 & S40), we saw a player get back in at the endgame after being voted out in the first few episodes (Chris & Natalie), after just winning one competition.
I think Redemption Island could work if it's tweaked a bit. Maybe take something from Last Chance Kitchen and have the elimination matches happen in secret from the remaining players.
EOE in S40 still wasn't great, but I get why it was in play, and I did appreciate that they gave the eliminated players something to do instead of just sitting around.
Would be interesting to compare the US twists with Australian and South Africa Survivor
How would you rank the traditional double tribal which debuted in Pearl Islands (but really Vanuatu)? It's probably the most prominent twist you didn't address in this video.
Honestly I’m surprised there haven’t been more twists overall. Good list!
Thank you for posting the video.
I live in the UK - where can we stream USA Survivor?
I honestly think the super idol is at least B-Tier if not A-Tier twist if it was not the only form of idol in the game. Like I understand hating it in Cook Islands where it was the sole idol in the game and entirely takes the suspense out of one tribal council, but it was amazing in Cagayan and Kâoh Rōng because there are still other normal idols where there is no telling when and if a normal idol or a super idol will be played
what are your thoughts on the individual immunity round of the premerge.
like the one where both tribes go to separate tribals but one person from each is immune
You forgot to include the ranking of tribe mates from Gobon. Honestly it’s S tier.
surprised you didn't mention the bird cage. what are your thoughts on it?
I’m not Peridiam but I think it’s pretty meh. Compared to most new era twists it’s not bad
The mind games made it at least B tier for me, the people making fake idols in there is freaking hilarious.
It's ok. I didn't include it because it's just a different way to hide the idols. Instead of being hidden they're out in the open... but now you have to find a key. Kinda similar to the idol.
The producers creating fake idols is a different story. I probably should've included that one. I think that's not great.
Final 4 fire is an F tier. They keep giving bad social players more and more ways to reach the end. “Outwit” is part of the tagline!
To be fair the juries make it so terrible at least they pushed back on it this season. Its not impressive enough to be a instant win the season Jesus.
Edit: meant LAST season not spoilers
I loved Knowledge is Power after Caleb played it in 45!!
I may have missed it, but are the other "vote" advantages not considered a "twist"? The steal-a-votes, the block-a-vote, oh and you forgot to mention the bank-a-vote was first introduced in season 35 when it was "earned" by another Lauren.
And choose-your-champion was first intro in Island of the Idols when Sandra and BRob gave (another) Lauren the chance to bet on two people to win immunity and if they win she gets an idol, she chose Elisabeth and Noura.
Are the LAURENs of Survivor the most to have advantages???
As someone, who started with s41-s44 and now started to watch the old survivor... I like the twists in the newer seasons. They add more to the game, feel strong, but not too strong, the beware Advantage is fun to watch... Only the Hourglas is weak in my opinion
Which older seasons have you watched, because in my opinion the newer seasons are terrible because of one reason: there are no villains. Parvati and Russel and rob and Cirie are all entertaining to watch because they are some of the best at the game and they also add villains
i just want more input on S32 Kaoh rong twist. i really enjoyed the season and we're def not talking about that but more of do u think it would've changed the ned of the season out right? all i see is michelle and tai in the top 2. michelle convinced tai that aubry was sus and the general consensus from most other contestants (being joe and neil) was that michelle was just a ride along. in both cases i feel like she wins wins jury over with scot, jason and still probably debbie right?
didn't run numbers in the event tai goes to the jury w/ neil there as well but it's all just speculation :D
michele* love the content btw ty!
Are you doing a cast assessment/prediction?
Which tier does the Instant Double Elim(the Whitney boot from S23) belong in?🤔
Edge of Extinction could be D tier for me if they made some changes. For example, they should allow only one person to win their way back into the game at the merge and end it after that. That's better than someone coming back in at the merge and final 5. Coming back in at final 5 is way too late in the game. I actually enjoyed seeing some of the pre-jury members in the game longer. It gave us more time with some cool characters like Reem, Rick Devens, and Chris Underwood. Also, I would put Redemption Island in D tier. It's less broken than EOE, but it should end after the merge as well
What twists from Big Brother would you bring into Survivor?
The pendant of protection as something could only be played as a combination of 3 idols like the super idol combination in kaoh rong
This should be a video
I still think there should be a bizarro year before Probst gets too old where they swap hosts, Probst would do TAR, the TAR guy would do Big Brother and Julie could do Survivor. I am sure the TAR guy is bored to death of traveling and I want to see a new host react to things. Tar guy would be maybe funnier than Julie and Julie on an Island she would be fine as hell in beach clothes.
Is the merge technically a twist?
Nope, as it's part of the vanilla Survivor format since season 1 both in the US and internationally.
I have so many questions about EoE being in F tier! I expect you to address all of them
Just watching Edge of Extinction is enough to know why.
@@sibernout7717 It's lowkey a pretty good season and a fun watch. Definitely too overhated by the fandom
And hidden idols are good but there is a clear dividing line between the early days and now. HvV Tyson blindside good, HHH Ben idoling his way to victory bad. They are basically at crutch now that allows subpar players make it far and even win the game.
I like redemption island and only because Ozzy played it as perfectly as it could have been in South Pacific for the type of player he is.
There’s people that like final 4 fire making?
Thank You William Enjoy The Premiere
I think it's so funny that "Expect the Unexpected" Big Brother is formulaic and repetitive, as well as defined by the big alliance meta, making it extremely predictable, and Survivor is just throwing random darts at a board to create artificial excitement, but also has found itself committed to formula in the new era, making it predictable as well
inheritance advantage should allow you to get an idol of someone voted out that didnt play it
I think choose your champion was a fun twist.
i LOVE the amulet twist i wish they brought it back
personally i would move drinking bleach up to between redemption island and edge of extinction, otherwise great list
I can never knock the EOE. Without it we wouldn't have had a full season of Reem.
They should do another Blood vs Water but don’t tell any of the players that’s what the season is. Let each pair think they’re the only pair.
Big Brother did something similar in BB6. It was a great twist, despite the cast eventually figuring it out. I would also really love to see this. It would only work with an all-newbie cast, though.
They should totally do the Millennials vs. gen X twist again but with Millennials vs. gen Z (Tiktok Gen) anyone else think its a good idea??
Hour glass deserves a tier of its own
I want this man to be on the next season of survivor.
Shot in the dark is probably b tier for me. It makes blindsides so important. Wish it had better odds over time(each unsuccessful use) up to 1/3 or something. Only new era twist I like
Also no rice is G tier. Makes no sense. No one cares. Feed em
Shot in the Dark would be more effective and interesting if each failed draw reduced the amount of scrolls to draw from for future tribals. So if a scroll is drawn and doesn't grant immunity, there would be a 1/5 chance for subsequent tribals. This would either reset to 1/6 once a successful Shot in the Dark is drawn, or just end for the rest of the season. I'd lean towards the former.
The twist though has had the consequence of making tribals more boring. The threat of someone playing Shot in the Dark has required those blindsides as you've mentioned, which means players are less incentivized to speak honestly at tribal. It leads to a bunch of analogies that get stale over time. This is part of the reason I like Emily from 45 because she just throws it all out there without a filter.
@@Sliacen I was thinking the same on the shot in the dark chances. Do you think it’s to blame for bad tribals, the casting of more aware/knowledgeable players or Jeff’s questioning? I hate the analogies & tc conversations in the new era. Pointless
This just confirms my feelings that there is WAY too many advantages (esp in the early days of the new era), that Do or Die is the absolute worst (it made me so angry and I'm so glad it went away), Jonathan and Wanda's insta-out is also the absolute worst. 😂
I totally get Jeff has to keep things spicy and fresh, and some things work out and some things need tweaking and some things don't work in the execution of it. I appreciate that they try things out. BUT sometimes things should NEVER have been tried (* side eyes the hourglass and Do or Die * 😂)
I just want the fire making challenge idol form survivor South Africa
I can’t remember now if you mentioned it, but different number of starting tribes. (2, 3 or 4) as I feel like it changes up the game so much.
Also least favorite twist of all time and makes me so mad was Do or Die because it literally gets rid of the core of what survivor should be
In theory, I like the shot in the dark, but it’s just not going to give us the wow factor in its current state. I feel like most people who use it are just paranoid, not reading the social game correctly in the way that they would with an idol play, and the actual chances of being safe are so slim.
It would genuinely be amazing tv IF someone chooses to play it, they were the target, and they get safety but that’s so many ifs.
Idk the school yard pick was a factor in Gabon being so lopsided.
I’ve always been of the mind that one world would’ve been a much better twist if it wasn’t men vs women. Obviously tribe lines are strong on most seasons but when you make something men vs women both sides get blinders feeling they are competing for the gender as a whole vs for themselves. Without men vs women, i feel the tribes would’ve flowed more and been more interactive vs what we got
I know what you said in the beginning, but due to the impact on the particular player(s) that season, I have to ask... Why not mention the Survivor China player swaps? I still feel bad for Aaron!
Contrary to most other people, I actually don't mind twists like Redemption Island or Edge of Extinction, it gives people a chance to redeem themselves after basically blowing it at the beginning or middle of the game. I can't say they're the best twists ever, but I don't think they are the worst either.
Sure I just think that RI should end after the merge.
Redemption island would work better with 3 tribes as instead of half the field still wanting you out, you’d still have connection you could form
IK its international survivor, but I really enjoyed Island of the Idols.
bro im so fucking dumb i thought this was a DBD survivor tier list..
Not having the final 3 as the worst twist in Survivor history is actually such a horrible take. it’s the change to the show that kickstarted its death and opened up the show to all subsequent bad twists.
so you're saying having a final 3 instead of a final 2 made the show go downhill?
@@tmm4195 100%
@@hunteratops Gotta strongly disagree with that. It didn’t kickstart the shows death. Many of the shows best seasons have a final 3. It hasn’t changed the show enough to be considered the worst twist in survivor history. It’s for sure not worse than the do or die or hourglass twist lol. If you think survivor went downhill since it started final 3 then you must really only like old school survivor
Edge of Extinction for season 40 should be separate because it was great. As long as the winner doesnt come from there and we see Ethan all season, it's S tier. Hence why it's only acceptable on season 40.
Do or Die could be cool if the punishment for falling out of the immunity challenge first was something smaller, like losing your vote for 1 or 2 tribals. The idea of having to decide whether you'll compete is actually pretty interesting, like how it lead to a 1v1 in 42. The current version just feels too gimmicky with the Monty Hall problem and the chance of going home without recieving votes. But I think immunity challenges are the most natural context for the "Will you risk your vote for immunity" dilemma, so Do or Die has potential to be adapted into a good minor twist
Agreed, if it wasn’t Monty Hall and instead pure chance where you choose between the three boxes whether you lose your vote or not it’s a lot more exciting and would eat up less time on the show. I also think vote shenanigans are more exciting than someone just straight up going out of the game because they picked a box, mainly because the other players have to work around the possibility of someone’s vote being an unknown variable. The iteration we saw just didn’t require much strategizing, f.e. in 41 all they had to account for was the situation in which Deshawn would pick the right box. Either he goes out or he’s immune and we’ll just vote out Liana. It doesn’t allow for exciting strategy, in fact it’s as straight forward as it could possibly get.
Legitimately there’s no tension, will Deshawn or Lindsay be able to open the right box or will we have a safe vote
The boxes are so dumb too I feel like they should do a fire making challenge or something more related to survival then opening a damn box in a drawn out 5 minute scene.
I think the best penalty is being "marked for elimination" which means you have no vote at tribal AND an automatic vote cast against you. It puts a humungous target on your back if you lose but there's still room to maneuver out of it.
The outcasts is not unfair. The remaining players could have revolving door Lil and Burton and sect them right back out. They chose not to.
What about the "let's watch Cirie win the game, then lose the game" twist. Better known as the random surprise final 2 twist. F tier.
Any twist that allows a player to come back after being voted out is a non-starter. If Survivor ever does this again, that will be a season that I pass on. If you get voted out, you lose...period. A not so close second is the hourglass, or similar twist where by losing you get to win instead. Winning should have rewards and losing have consequences.
strongly disagree with you on KIP. The whiffing makes the twist fun and it is so hard to play around the twist. ie. how Jesse got Jeanine's idol.
Drinking Bleach?! 🤣
Still offended that "Drinking Bleach" got robbed and put in F tier
Too many advantages. One idol at a time per tribe is plenty. Steal a vote is fine but that’s enough.
The schoolyard pick is a bit of a double edge sward your either going to get some of the funniest television ever see Gabon or it going to be a slow motion train wreck see Palau and Fiji.
I would love for Survivor to change up the Final 4 Firemaking. I don't inherently dislike it but it needs to be evolved. I have an idea of what I'd like to see but I'd also worry it would be a bit too complicated to explain in the show. My vision is that it would still be a duel between two people at the tribal, but let's have the Final 4 challenge decide the aspects of the duel. At the final 4 challenge, if you come in last place, you are immediately thrown into the duel. If you come in 1st place, you decide on who the other opponent is competing in the duel. Now, the 2nd place finisher will get to decide what type of duel it will be. The only information you'd get is a basic explanation of the type of duel you can choose from (i.e puzzle, skill, endurance, firemaking, etc.) and you are only given 3 choices to choose from. The specific challenge is not revealed until after it has been decided on. Both 1st and 2nd place would place their vote for their respective piece at tribal. I'd think there would be a lot of strategic talk between what and who is chosen. Want to make sure last place makes it to final tribal? Pick a duel they'll be good at. Still have a jury threat in the game? Throw them in the duel hoping they'll get eliminated. I didn't want to give both decisions to 1st place as I feel like that is too much power for one person to have and splitting it up feels like it gives other players agency.
I feel like redemption island deserves to be at least one tier above edge of extinction.. otherwise great!
Without a doubt do or die is my least favorite twist especially in season 42 because if Lindsey would have been eliminated we would not have had the amazing Drea vote off that episode