Responding to Lily Orchard's terrible writing advice
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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#lilyorchard #anime #writingtips
RUclipsr Lily Orchard has been a subject of controversy recently, but that's not really why I want to talk about her, despite the disturbing topics we hear involving Courtney Peet or the Stockholm MLP fanfiction. Instead, I want to talk about her infamous thread of 'writing tips', which are hilariously bad. Here, I break down the first 30 writing tips from Lily Orchard and discuss what they can offer to aspiring writers looking for tips. There will be other parts to go through the rest of her advice coming soon!
Rules for writers-
Rule 1: If you can't separate fact from fiction, don't be a writer.
Rule 2: If rule 1 applies to you, don't talk to me, please.
amen to that my friend. Amen to that.
You aren't a writer or...anything really...so...your name is what you are. Dirt.
People often tell you as the viewer to "Separate the art from the artist" but don't realize that it goes both ways. If you want to actually make great art at some point, you have to be ready to not only engage in topics that make you uncomfortable, but also be ready to lend credence to points you would normally disagree with. No one wants to read or watch something that turns out to be your diary or burn book.
@@humrH2360 even better, don't engage that much. limit your social interaction and just focus on your craft.
@@mitacestalia7532 I agree, though I wasn't talking about social media interaction, but the exploration of ideas. Great writers are willing to actually challenge their own ideas, rather than hold them at a pedestal and then get pissy when someone objects.
Much of modern "Mary Sue" media we see that's ideologically driven, especially in comics and western media, are prime examples of writers who can't challenge their ideals, where the star character is a myopic hemorrhoid who treats her friends like expendable pawns, and everyone who disagrees with her or calls her out on it is wrong for doing so.
The advice really just boils down to, "These are things Lily dislikes from the five children's shows she watches, so don't so them." A lot of it is way too hyper-specific, or deeply rooted in Lily's own personal life to really be of use to anyone. She should have boiled it down to the most substantive 20 or so and just made a 40 minute video giving each more elaboration than Twitter allows.
Remember this is Lily we're talking about. The same person who condescendingly slanders anyone who criticizes her takes on Tumblr and is now being a giant baby and trying to strike down critics.
Is it a dead horse to kick?
Probably
Is it still fun to see lily's bad takes getting Sweet chin music'd everytime?
Bigger yes
And on a side note here's hoping ya
financial situations is taken care of
And ya well be well
I had the misfortune of watching ONE specific cartoon related video made by Lilly Orchard. It made me understand that was someone whose opinion, and advice, is worthless. How could someone actually take such advice seriously?
are used to watch Louise stuff, but I got so sick and tired of her making jokes about how horrible men were that I stopped watching her long before she made this list. I also saw another pair of professional writers pretty much point out that all of this is just really saying what kind of stories she likes and saying those are the only good stories if I remember correctly.
@@InvaderMedia420 hmmm. Man hating male identifying as woman. A very common pattern.
Why would u watch this shit oomf, you could have died 🥺
At this point I'm pretty sure Lily is sustained entirely by hate watching.
The only thing worse than Lily Orchard as a critic, is Lily Orchard as a person.
Truly. My first exposure to her was back during the My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic days, and among those who made videos about it, she was basically the "friend" that nobody likes. Nobody had anything nice to say to her, but no one could actually criticize her without someone flipping their 💩 about it, and so anytime she seemed to enter the picture, there was a noticeable discomfort and visible effort to not call her out on her behavior.
@@humrH2360 IIRC she was abusive to Joshcorcher
@@papersonic9941 I've also heard about her writing some messed up stuff about Inkrose. Overall, Lily has shown to be an awful person, which makes it a wonder how or why she is not only still present but also has any measure of influence on the internet.
And when you think you got to the end of how much of a bad person she is, you hear something, or read more, and it just get's worse.
I have another example of sexy armor actually making sense
The Muv-Luv visual novel trilogy famously does a genre shift from a moe harem rom-com to a gritty mecha sci-fi story. One of the things it really likes to do is play around with the mecha tropes by making them actually work with the overall worldbuilding, even down to questions like "why use giant robots?" and "why are so many of the soldiers teenage girls?"
Well when the main cast is training to be mech pilots, they're given these highly suggestive outfits and the way it was presented was that they needed to desensitize themselves from shame, embarrassment, and self-consciousness. They needed to be able to work and fight together even at their worst and trust each other implicitly with their vulnerabilities. I thought it added a lot to the overall thought processes of the various characters and did a great job of almost forcing an early bond with the main cast.
Sometimes it can be fun for a writer to try to make the dumb tropes make sense rather than just avoiding them because they're dumb tropes.
The MuvLuv suits aren't skimpy, they're form fitting while covering everything below the jawline with some wrap around the jawline. In turn while that dynamic is mentioned is a net effect mentioned in the VN, that's not the reason the pilot suits are form fitting.
They're form fitting because the Interface Suits [Fortified Suits] are the base suit for both the TSF, _and_ the Feedback Protector. To clarify due to fighting literaly Swarms of enemies that literally want to east them, with support elements that attempt to kill anything that flies... Hence the only option for a pilot to reasonably try to bail is with a Feedback Protector, aka Power Suit. Hence the Pilot Suit needs to be form fitting, because if they need to bail the Feedback Protector that literally makes up the chair they sit in needs to engage within a couple seconds and something that isn't form fitting would otherwise be a problem for said system.
@@jebe4563 I wasn't referring to the fact that the suits are form-fitting, but the fact that parts of the suits (the trainee suits specifically. The full TSF pilot suits weren't as suggestive) had flesh coloring that gave off the illusion of a V-waist going all the way down to their pelvises. It was designed to simulate partial nudity.
This is essentially the plot of kill la kill
Men in the Olympics also used to compete naked; even for wrestling and other forms of combat olympics.
Or you know, just use the stupid sexy outfit because you like, i dont see people crying "muh ruined immersion" when we see characters like conan go up butt naked against his oponentes.
If writers took Lily’s advice, they’d only curn out the most boring, simplistic, and chaste coffee shop AU-esque stories known to man.
So... most of semi-recent western media?
I thought this said something completely different the first time I read it 😂
@@MichaelB-Gamingname 10
@@honxiu 10 of the most boring, simplistisc and chaste stories that came out recently?
@@MichaelB-Gaming isaid name 10
25 seems to be an attack on Kill La Kill. Ryoko growing comfortable with her body and developing her sexual agency is the reason given for why her clothes were made so revealing.
Also, I've seen bikini armor justified as the result of using extremely rare materials to make magical armor that effectively generates a force field around their body.
A sudden tonal shift in the second season that radically changed what type of story it is? Almost sounds like you're describing Vinland Saga
I like the idea of what if the females body is durable enough to take the hits in the bikini is only to protect their modesty, or to flaunting their feminine charm.
literally skyrim 3ba armor mod
I just wish in media where women's armor is for fanservice, men's armor would be treated the same.
A simple thing about tropes that to many amateur novelists keeps forgetting or refuse to learn is that tropes only becomes tropes because they work, it’s how they are used that matters.
The part about the two lesbians kissing, and it being toxic, is a reference to She-Ra.
The main character and sexy catgirl start the series working for the villain. The two are super close, with TONS of subtext. Then the MC realizes she's been brainwashed by the bad guys, and defects. Thus, MC and Catgirl are on opposite sides, but also have strong relationship.
They fight a lot, being on opposite sides of war. But in season 5, catgirl finally switches sides and they make out.
Lily says this is toxic since catgirl tried to kill her throughout the series, being on two sides of the war. Lily never forgave this, and brings it up in every single video, no matter how unrelated it is.
And now you know the backstory. I'm sure this info greatly enhanced the quality of your life
Yeah, she's basically mad that she... can't process the fact that it isn't abuse? It's just that they're on opposite sides... so there's conflict. And a payoff for when they begin to grow closer and come to an understanding. It's a kids show, too. Thinking those two genuinely hate each other is simply silly. And that show is probably the BIGGEST win for LGBT rep in the more recent kids cartoons. Genuinely what is there to get upset about Lily?
Ever since I had the misfortune of coming up this "list" for a third time, it just felt like a long-winded, paper-thinly-veiled rant about all the decisions in all the shows the author did not like for one reason or another. You can tell, because where a bitchy critic sees a hard restriction, a creative writer instead sees an opportunity, for subversion, for affirmation, for deconstruction, for reconstruction, for a literally infinite amount of ways to play with established tropes in a fun and innovative way. In "Empire of the Vampire", which itself thrives on tumberesque dark gothic power fiction, the main male warriors strip to the waist for battle. Why? Because their skin is tattooed with silvered ink depicting holy icons, literally blinding the undead they fight. Is it corny and obviously done for the aesthetic? Sure. Does it make sense in-universe and thus emphasize the creativity and coolness? I think it does. So you can ever make something as kitschy and edgy as a battle strip work and be awesome if you set your mind to it, and quit bitching on the internet in-between writing extremely questionable "fan-lore" for My Little Pony.
Half of these are just thinly veiled vent posts about shows that were popular in her circle like She-Ra or Legend of Korra. Nothing more. She watched a few things that bugged her, but couldn't justify making a video about. So she made a dumb thread about it.
In My Little Pony, villains made out o darkness like King Sombra get killed but those made out of flesh like Queen Chrysalis or literally an evil pony child Cozy Glow get turned to stone for eternity
Thank you for the mlp lore
Didn't know there was death in mlp 💀💀
@@A_itsar There was also a villain in 2017 MLP Movie who got turned into stone when falling down from castle roof and getting broken into pieces, its the most explicit death from G4 franchise
@@MrConredsX In the end credits of that movie, you can see the ponies dancing with those pieces and he's still alive...
@@mray4784 Yeah thats an ending joke to make it less grim. Same happened to Lord Farquaad in Shrek 1 where he was alive in the dragon belly in dancing credits but that doesn't mean they ever survived
Speaking as someone who's writing level is "I can come up with character concepts for tabletop RPGs.".
Lily's "tips" are either "no shit", "stop complaining about kids cartoons" or "this trope is bad period. Context? I don't know them.".
What matters is grammar is important, proofread and write whatever the hell you want, just make it interesting.
The 'tips' are either potshots at things she doesn't like or justifying her own writing and opinions.
Look at point 4 about redemption arcs. Sge has said many tines that redemption arcs are always, 100% if the time, bad or boring. But Zuko is a well-written character with a great arc. Thd solution is not to acknowledge that redemption can therefore be done well, but to call Zuko's redemption arc something else so she's still right about all redemption arcs being crap because the good ones conveniently don't count.
That's a good point. If she hates redemption arcs (most people don't) but conveniently does some mental gymnastics to say the ones she does like aren't redemption arcs then she can't be wrong!
This takes me back to the days of Noralities commentary. Good times
Noralities has some fundamental issues in common with Lily (primarily their "this makes me uncomfortable, so I must justify why it shouldn't exist" position on a lot of issues in anime/manga, and how their brain turns off when they make assumptions about a show as they watch it), but they at least had some understanding of media landscape and psychology and could articulate their points in a way that invited deeper discussion and critique. Lily is, like... the junk food version of that. Easy to consume, zero quality in her approach, and it doesn't take many brain cells to dissect and demolish just about all of her stances.
@@Junosenseiyeah, I wouldn't compare Noralities to Lily on anything other than that whole 'this makes me uncomfy' feel. Noralities never felt like an unsavory person, let's be honest.
@@Junosensei Imagine being a junk food version of Noralities of all people. It's like being a dollarstore knockoff version of smelly, rotting fish.
@@NatalieXHunter Noralities is just a passive aggressive person who fell into a bear trap when she got out her lane. Unfortunately, there are more people who listen to her in an industry stance but thankfully no one really listens to Lily.
@@NatalieXHunter don't forget Lily orchard raped her sister as well so she is a terrible person
A Natalie video about Lily orchard? Now thats a surprise, but a welcome one. Personally I've been watching a lot of videos lately about her, so this came at a perfect time!
Its more accurate to say this is Lily's 100 twitter post review of certian shows then actual writing advice.
Spoilers and Foreshadowing Events are two completely different things in my view.
Some might be spoiled when they read too much into Foreshadowing Events but when it comes to a story adaptation to a series that goes for a long time, sometimes it is handy to know how long a story is gonna be and seeing where it is going before investing time and money into getting the books while waiting for the next season of the adaptation.
Lily Orchard would have bad writing advice given the horrible fanfics Orchard made. The best way to take Lily's advice is by not following it.
It's crazy that Lily Orchard still has a RUclips account, even after when Lily Orchard was exposed for doing something illegal.
Yeahhhh, I didn't want to go into that and don't know how reliable any of the evidence is, but I saw her sister's video and tbh, I believe her.
And yet we're not even allowed to "misgender her". As if someone who's a complete narcissist and has committed crimes deserves "respect."
If she keeps on throwing false copyright claims Willy nilly it will eventually bite her in the back.
@@brandonlyon730yep!
Illegal and creepy.
Happy to see you tackle this terrible list as someone who used to be a fan of that crazy woman. Not only does she NOT know how the industry works and how animation is done.
Her takes on anime are honestly one of the most DATED and out of touch things I've ever heard. Honestly, really excited for the next part or two Natalie.
17:06 Lily is talking about the newst She-Ra cartoon which ends with She-Ra (Adore) and Catra kissing or confessing at the end after seasons of them fighting each other.
17 and 18 also seem to be Lily being bitter about She-Ra
I have played World of Warcraft for many years and even played Warcraft 2 and 3. There was only one point that Sylvanas Windrunner was NOT a villain. That was in Warcraft 3 when you were playing as Arthus and technically YOU were the villain. At the end of that mission you kill her and raise her as an undead. Since then she was also a villain. The stupid thing was trying to redeem her... At least I think they tried to redeem her I never played the Shadowlands expansion.
They made her worse so you didn't miss much. Their attempted "redemption" was saying that she was just mind controlled by the Jailer the whole time.
I do want to give the benefit of the doubt regarding the "Don't post story beats on twitter" as I do have a similar thought. I think Lily may have been referring to when a story is released with plot holes or missing information, and it basically becomes required to do external research to essentially 'fix' the story you've been given.
For example, In Rise of Skywalker, they never explain how the Emperor came back, or why everyone knows it. They put that information in a freaking Fortnight tie in, and in online Q&A. That should have just been IN THE MOVIE! A story shouldn't require me to do homework to make up the authors bad storytelling.
Star Wars actually did that a lot. They would listen to all the plot holes that people pointed out later and write novels explaining them. Then, nerds could use it to excuse any possible flaws. Which is just silly.
That being said, external info can be fun. All of Yoko Taro's games have entire novels worth of stories in external sources. But the difference is that his game Nier still functions perfectly well on it's own. The extra info enriches the experience if you want, but isn't required.
I'm probably putting more thought into this than Lily dis, but it just hit on a writing belief I have. It may not have even been what Lily was talking about :p
I have always felt that when someone does the "how to write" post, workshop, or talk, I get the feeling the title should be "How I Write*"(*and I'm the expert because I'm the writer, and anything else is just wrong). Not always true but almost a trop.
Thing is, that title wouldn't work for Lily, because she doesn't actually write.
"What Avatar did" is just "what One Piece still does", just in a shorter runtime. Surely if it can be copied once it can be copied again by someone talented.
On a broader note Avatar didn't do anything completely new and extraordinary for adventure stories, it was well told and well crafted, but nothing unimitable. Lily calls these "writing tips", but maybe she means doing exactly what Avatar did down to the distribution and medium. Which I guess is a bit more fair to say "you can't make a 4 season long serialised fantasy-adventure cartoon on TV", because of how those conduct buisness these days, but even THEN it still might be possible. It could even become more posible in the future depending on how the world turns. Saying "don't even try it" is stupid, even in this most charitable of interpretations.
Dragon prince literally dumps all over this "tip"
just yesterday I watched a critique to Lily's pokemon video, so I already knew she wouldn't have any insightful writing advice, but holy crap; pretty much all of her points are basically "I don't like this thing, therefore it is bad". No nuance, no situational examples, just a pure black and white way of viewing things. Calling any of these "tips" is being very generous to be honest.
Strength be with you Natalie.
You're a Brave Soul for going through this agony of Lily's writing tips.
It's always nice to see you give a calm and nuanced response in All of your videos.
I'll watch part 2 and part 3 till the end.
Take your time. If you're going to deliver, then please deliver it good.
It's always nice to go into a story with no knowledge. Even if the "spoilers" are set up well, I still wanted to experience the shock.
i got you.
17:15 she refering to Legend of Korra there. (i was wrong, its She-ra)
35:26 shes probably refering to Hunter from The Owl House here.
I don't think she was (you mean the girls kissing at the end thing?) because I've seen that and the characters were always friends and allies, she's talking about women who were trying to kill each other. I think someone said it's She-Ra but I haven't seen that.
@@NatalieXHunter damn, got it wrong. Haven't watched Shera either, but from the video essays(yes i watch video essays on stuff I've never seen) I've watched it is definitely plausible, I do recall her saying she hated something on the matter, maybe it was that. though I'm fairly sure the owl house one is correct.
@@NatalieXHunter Short version, She-Ra and her best friend Catra were raised as child soldiers in the antagonist's army. She-Ra leaves when she gets her magic sword but Catra refuses because she wants the approval of the person who raised them. Catra spends the rest of the series stalking/attacking She-Ra while also wanting to sleep with her. Catra gets a poorly done redemption arc in the final season (when there were much better places to put it earlier) and they get together at the end of the show. Fans of the series complain about this relationship a lot.
@@theboneman7379 I watch video essays about shows I've never seen too. I like learning what other people dislike about shows because it often helps me organize my thoughts about the series I don't like.
@@NatalieXHunter #17 sounds like she's describing Catra again. Not sure since she definitely wasn't the only lesbian in the show, but the personality description and co-dependent relationship with the protagonist are spot on.
The origins of the Sexy Bikini Armor is actually quite interesting (at least to me). The fiction cliche for it can be attrributed to the character of Red Sonja, and according to some of the involved, the responsible were Stan Lee and Esteban Maroto. The idea was, of course, sell more comics "the pulp fantasy way" (almost naked men and women on the covers), and since Sonja was more dressed at first, Lee asked Maroto to draw her with more skin revealed.
The Bikini style stuck, and later on Roy Thomas explained the change in various ways (depending on the moment and publication): for one, Sonja depends more on her speed and wearing any kind of actual armor hindered her movement and speed so she had to go low dressed to take advantage of her strength. The other explanation is that she uses her body to distract her opponents (which most of the time are agresive men) to give her an edge in battle an make them drop their guards.
In the Dynamite run for Red Sonja they expanded this last reasoning into vengeance, since she was abused by raiders that killed everyone in her village, she goes almost naked to attract that kind of people so she can kill them, wherever they are.
Of course, in the end the only actual reason is to sell more, but that doesn't mean reasons cannot be worked into the story itself.
Every time I hear armor hinders movement and speed I want to scream
I never understood why people can't just let people write fictional stories however they want. I even deal with it myself. Why is everything considered offensive or why does writing certain characters this way or that way make you a bad person? It's just a fictional story. Just let it be whatever the writer wants. We just want to write. Geez....
Sometimes writers put things in their stories for creepy reasons. I'd like to think that every writer approaches certain topics with good intentions in mind but that just isn't true. Example: Lily Peet herself!
All that to say, you should be fine if said "problematic" thing has a reason for being in your story. Otherwise there's no actual reason anyone should be upset about it!
There are valide advices, and critics. Oviously Lily's advice is not any of them. Most of those are not even advice, just rent about whatever kid's show she is watching.
Tbh the demographic rep stuff is a mixed bag. Many cases of such characterization is a p crappy thing to do(lots of manga have the only gay or trans rep being unglamourous, unrealistically off-putting, predatory etc.... due to restrictions on positive representations by the ones in charge), but there are legit hyper-camp people out there, so including them along with other personalities would be more okay. If they are the ONLY rep, I'll give the writer mega side-eye though.
As for diversity and company... I'm kinda annoyed at those who whine about it. On the one hand, you can have a monochromatic character list... in a zoomed-in type story that doesn't really wander off and it'll be fine. They just happen to be who your story is about. On the other, if you span your scenes and characters around places to the point that you would statistically see more variety than those you've shown... something's up. This applies either to your cookie cutter white cis-het characters to POCs and queer characters. I don't mean the cases where the focus is mostly around X, with orbiting variety, just the ones that completely exclude that variety(where it would not make sense, a Japanese office setting is unlikely to have someone from mexico).
Tbh I think a lot of these "tips" are more poorly communicated and thinly veiled pointed criticism towards something she didn't like. I appreciate the intent to call out harmful representation, but it was clumsily phrased at best.
The 'tips' she wrote really reminds me of how important it is to be clear when you write so everyone can understand the point being made. If you want to use a reference, set up the background so people can follow rather than just saying something super specific and expecting people to understand.
Wouldn’t Frieren count as low stakes? The high stakes battle ended before the story began, now it’s practically a low stacks travel adventure story that just gets high beats consistently?
The comment about romance to me it depends if it’s pure romance like what you see in holiday romances and maybe romcoms yeah, I would say. The end is the best part to do it because in the holiday one it’s all about how the holidays brought them together and with the romcom, it’s all about the hilarity of everything going on around them that makes them end up together. For me the only time it’s really annoying is when they go back in force they’re dating they break up they’re dating they’re breaking up they’re dating they break up. I also might be wrong, but I feel like ones that are simply slice of life stories. Also a good one where the couple can really start the relationship anywhere the beginning, the middle or the end and of course it’s always just subjective on when it is the best time to put the pairing together.
Most of these rules can essentially be summarized as "don't write anything even remotely interesting or that people might actually like." If you actually take these rules to heart, you'll be walking on eggshells every time you try, and before you know it, you're too restricted to even try anything.
Hi Omni, love your videos
With how little of this feels like it was aimed at aspiring authors, I’m left to ponder why she didn’t title this post “Things I hate about cartoons and other tv shows”? Guess that sort of title just isn’t grandiose enough for someone who thinks they’re in a position to give advice to people in an industry they’ve never worked in.
A lesser mortal might say “Dude, I wrote this for fun. No need to take it seriously when it’s just a set of petty complaints from someone with no experience of what they’re talking about.” But not Lily. She needs you to understand that her pronouncements are prescriptive.
One of the most famous examples of a villain redeemed is a character who has killed more than 10000 people, he’s destroyed entire planets for annoying him. But over the course of a long ass time with several years both in and outside the show he goes from a self absorbed bastard to a family man that’s arguably more likable than the main character.
The point about characters not having sexual agency is so dumb. Like yeah these character aren’t real people, but by that logic you might as well argue that characters have *no* agency, which is just stupid. In the most reductive sense, the characters do what I as an author make them do. But the reality is, at a certain point it’s not my job as an author to make the characters do whatever I want them to, but rather to figure out what would make the most sense for my characters to do at any given moment. Characters are supposed to take on a life of their own. Lily would understand this if she actually were a creative person who could create original works that aren’t just schlocky shipping fanfic (she isn’t). But I get the feeling that she *only* has this specific hang up when it comes to *sexual* agency, not any other kind of agency. She’s really weird and paradoxically puritanical when it comes to things like sexy character designs and characters acting sexually. I can only imagine that this kind of stuff makes her uncomfortable, and the point about characters not having sexual agency (along with her general disgust towards anything remotely sexually explicit) just reeks of her projecting her own insecurity with expressing herself in a sexual manner. I’m no psychologist, but given everything I’ve learned about Lily Orchard over the years, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this were the case.
Which is weird, because she calls the main couple of Hazbin Hotel "sex shy". She really can't seem to make up her mind when it comes to sexuality lmao
@@SodaFrizz666 Yeah I’ve never really been able to put my finger on her views. She prides herself as the ultimate progressive, she herself is trans, yet she gets really weird and oddly puritanical/conservative when it comes to certain forms of sexual expression. And it’s like, fuck right off with that Lily. You can’t have it both ways. These contradictions make her ideologically incoherent, and she has no place to criticize other people’s political beliefs when her’s are such a mess.
Speaking as someone who used to watch her, most of these are jabs at Legend of Korra and the She ra reboot. There is also a weird anti sex theme with these which i found puzzling
In a lot of jp fantasy novels and manga, a lot of the "sexy armor" design is usually explained by "there's magic that reinforces your body" which either the one wearing it can cast on themselves or the armor is naturally imbued with said magic. What matters about it shouldn't be whether the author is a pervert or not for including it, but what the author can do with this explanation for their story and the world it takes place in.
If we go with the latter example you could include that blacksmiths can imbue weapons and armor with magic, or that these magically imbued weapons or armor can only be found in obscure places. Heck, you could just make the whole thing into a joke if you really want to, like a super serious character wearing something sexy and being incredibly embarrassed.
Sure, you can do the same in other ways, but that's the point. If the author wants to do something in a way they like or in a way they think is clever, then they can do so. That's the freedom of writing. Lily's "writing advices" are just a bunch of "you can't do this", which is just the absolute worst way to approach it. You absolutely can. Whether it turns out good or not will depend on your skill as a writer but you can still do so.
In my setting bikini armor is just a type lingerie popular with female warriors
Lily Orchard forgets about what is important to a story when she claims that if we include problematic things in the story that we are somehow bad people if we consume it and author is bad because he/she put it there.
She forgets that without any conflict into a story, there isn't any interest into reading the story in first place.
Sometimes conflict is resolved, sometimes conflict isn't resolved.
Sometimes the conflict is an endless cycle that sometimes is a way of relating to the reader that no matter how much things change in the world, there would always be conflicts because of human nature but set in a fantasy way so it isn't preaching the message to the reader.
Seems like Lily Orchard is too focused on being PC correct that she is forgetting that we as the reader really want to escape from reality and read a fun enjoyable story.
She is a hipocrite.
She wrote stories where she wrote an abusive realetionship as a "bueatifull, but fragile thing", shown predetors as heros, wrote intersex people as s%x craazed predetors, childhood SA victoms as abusers, and much more.
If getting couples together in the middle, at least make sure they develop further on in the story.
Else you will have to always think of ways to create misunderstandings in order to put them through more hilarious situations like in Love Hina and To Love Ru series.
Knowing how Lily has grooming allegations surrounding her, I’m not surprised she’s use these “tips” to project her insecurities, actions and sins onto others.
Reset the clock.
way to dredge up the dark memory of watching Skins back in the day. show was wild
There’s obviously a lot that could be said about Lily’s “tips” because ooohhh boy there’s a lot to unpack there, but instead I’d like to say that I absolutely loved listening to you talk about the different approaches writers take. As someone who’s aspiring to be a writer, I’m definitely guilty of the plotting out every last detail ahead of time approach. A lot of what you said about it resonated with me, especially about it keeping writers from actually starting the story itself, and it was really refreshing to hear you discuss both the positive and negative effects it can have while writing in that style. Hearing you talk about the more “go where the story takes you” writing style was really interesting as well, and I feel like it gave me a lot to think about and that I shouldn’t be afraid to try different styles like this. Just my long way of saying thanks I suppose, that topic of discussion really resonated with me, and as always I’m looking forward to more of your content in the future! Love ❤️
My style or writing is akin to move game design style. I enjoy world building then coming up with interesting characters to inhabit that world and seeing how they approach various aspects of the world and help to shape it. I never really have clear characters or a perfectly clear world. Though I do spend a fair amount of time building some interesting locations or history that helps me figure out the world.
I'm not a writer, nor I've never really thought about becoming one. However, I'm really tempted now, but just to be the BIGGEST TURD EVER!! for Lily Orchard's eyes. hahaha
Anyone who takes Lily's advice seriously, is gonna fail as a writer because nobody would want to read their stories.
For the love of god, if reading a fantasy story where I can have a beautiful 18 woman with sexy bikini armor fight against pervy monsters and she saves other girls from those pervy monsters, makes me a bad person.
Maybe I am not gonna read any of Lily's stories or any other author who adops Lily's advice.
Wanting no s%xy armor (Lily's braindead advice): broke
Wanting s%xy armor in places where it doasn't fit dou to acuracy, or themes: broke
Designing armor fit for the world, themes, with verality, and not being afraid to give it to both men, and women: woke
Great video! Those“tips”Lilly has are basically in a nutshell is that if the person like something that she doesn’t like then they are a terrible person for liking it. Lilly does not how to write a story or how a good story works. Also that tip she had about only writers writing and artists drawing made me so mad because I like to write and draw.
I love how redemption is an alien concept to lilyorchard
One thing I've noticed about Lily is her inability to stay on one topic. No matter what, she *will* fire shots at other people, one of her small reference pools or both.
I'm pretty sure the "two girls kissing after fighting for X seasons" is vagueposting about She-Ra.
The only way that an Evil character becomes Good and fight on the Protagonist side, is to have a larger Big Bad that both rivals would have to come up to fight against.
Goku and Vegeta formed that bond when fighting against Frieza, (with the help of Vegeta helping Goku's son during the Namek arc) and a plot twist that identifies who the real villain was and what lead up to the conflict earlier in the story.
When you're halfway through the video and get a chain of "tips" that could summed up with one saying "don't perpetuate stereotypes" you know the rest will have more filler just to get the count up to a hundred. The fact that so far this advice is just her opinions on tropes and some particular works doesn't bode well for this list having much use.
don't really have anything to add but will comment to help with the algorithm, great vid!
This was a great vid!
Would love to see more react/response type vids like this.
an hour of the most entertaining, calming voice on the internet? Yes please.
8:54 I mean, you don’t necessarily need to conform to all the formalities of a genre like romance. Wotakoi is a really good example of having characters get together right at the beginning in a romance/romcom. Also, iirc in Night Pleasures by Sherrilyn Kenyon, the main characters get together about halfway in because a) it allows for multiple steamy scenes and b) sets the stakes for later. So while I disagree with Lily’s take that it should be done in the middle, it also doesn’t have to be at the end to fit with romance genre conventions
I was really talking about western commercial romance, which is the biggest selling genre and so one a lot of people start out in. You do absolutely need to conform to a formula for that. Japanese romance is different for a number of reasons and has different conventions, and you can also have things that feel like romance or romcoms in western fiction but would actually be classified as literary fiction or 'chick lit' because they don't fit the formula. Kinda like how Colombo is a mystery show but it doesn't meet the technical terms for a mystery because the audience knows the solution from the start. I wasn't saying using other structures can't be good, I was saying if you want to sell something as a romance in the western market it does need that structure.
Fun fact several characters in mlp have been killed some even on screen like the storm king in the movies
Speaking as a former brony, eeeeeehhhhhhh, there were actually a few villains actually were killed, specifically season two big bad Queen Crysalys. season 3 main bad guy King Sombra, season four main baddie Tireck, and season 5 main bad guy Cozy Glow. The only villains that survive were Princess Luna and Discord
I recently saw someone else do a 2 and a half hour on this, but they went more into the LGBT side of things, which was an interesting perspective as someone not part of that community in any way at all. I definitely appreciate this though! Thankfully the person in the video called out each and every vaguepost that Lily put into her rants so it helped to make sense of the thing.
On an unrelated note, I'm excited for more videos on your second channel as well! Are you still working on it?
man this was super entertaining, I was listening to this while I was working out and time flew by so fast, ty natalie.
I'll just say it's really funny to see these types of individuals who can't understand the concept of a writer just making entertaining escapism. They assume everything a writer makes is somehow a reflection of how they think, it's funny because this is heavy projection on how they think.
"this type of clothes/armor is unrealistic". Yeah and? it's called fiction, that's kinda the point.
Yeah the majority of these "tips" are just Orchard taking shots at mostly children's shows she didn't like and if you know most of these shows you can guess the one she's making the complaint about , Example 24 is complaining about the character Hunter from The Owl House.
This really feels like backseat/armchair TV show writing "tips". And the tips are almost definitely counterproductive BS, and things she wanted to see in specific shows she likes. E.g. tip 6 sounds like it's for the She-Ra series
I loved this, looking forward to the next part
Number seven I am almost certain was about J. K. Rowling pointing out a bunch of details in the Harry Potter universe, not in the books, but in tweets. also, the only thing about the hero not eliminate the bad guy that drives me nuts is when they have another hero hint that that might be the only option I wish more riders would stop hinting at a possibility that they know their publishers will never let them do for example, shonen jump was never going to let izuku eliminate someone so the whole question about what to do with the final bad guy was annoying as hell. I wish more people would write stories where if they do have characters say, we need to eliminate them the heroes don’t even question it they just say no so we don’t even have the hint that it is a possibility that the hero is going to go against the grain
This randomly popped up in my feed and enjoyed it thoroughly.
I think the sort of person who compiles a list like this just has some kind of weird hang up about sex they need to work on.
Loved the video, I’m looking forward to the next video
Over 10,000 lives? So Eren is unredeemable?
I mean...yes
How many highly rated works has she written? None? Then her opinion means fuck all to me. If I was looking for advice, I'd ask you.
Kiku from one piece was literally a drag queen as a child.the only verifiably trans woman with a name in that series so far. I don’t see a problem with that character.
Never thought i hear you talk about Lily Orchard.
I should have done better research before writing my first novel. I am writing a new one and I am taking my time to learn to write better.
8:37 i love a slow building of a romance. SAO did that. There were fun moments, embarrassing moments, cute moments and of course misunderstandings that could potentially ruin the romance. I loved it. And then Bam! They are together.
26:00 I just... WOW, yeah, I 1000% agree with you on "I would prefer the technically 1000-year-old dragon Lolis"
Holy crap that made me just put down my knitting needles, didn't really know what 'Stockholm' contained until now, just heard that it was pretty bad. 😂😧😦
I'm both a planner and fly by seat of my pants type. I plan out a lot of where I want to go with greater things, but a lot of the things that get me there are fly by. I like listening to what my characters want to tell me about how they got there.
Nat with the Darth Vader reference
😌🙏😌🙏😌🙏
New Natalie vid drops in my feed. I click instantly.
thank you for this lovely video and feed back its quite important
also its always good to get proper and correct advice form 1 with exp than1 that dont full grapes the important in story structure
you said most i wish to exprsss so thank you and hope things are well for ya
The Lily Rabbit Hole virus continues to spread. Welcome to the pain train.
Ah yes, this classic tweet thread is surfacing again. I watched through all of it and wrote a rebuttal against a lot of Lily's tips under the comment section of JLongbone's Night of Cringe #28 stream (Gee, that was 3 years ago). It's still there if anyone wants to read.
about half of these 'tips' are just vague posting about the she-ra reboot? it's a little baffling how she tries to pass this off as writing advice
What happened to the cat ears?
I change my outfit and hair for different videos, sometimes the cat ears are there, sometimes I hide them with magic!
Bringing up Stockholm seriously ewe why the hell did you have to remind people of that crap?But seriously very very creepy on Lily's part.
I had another comment that got deleted and I don't feel like rewriting it all, but about the romance point, Horimiya is a great example of a story with 1 main couple and they get together relatively early and this is because the story is about their relationship. Depending on the type of romance story it can be done.
I was talking about what qualifies as a 'romance' novel in technical terms in the west, not any type of love story. It really only matters to people who write or consume romance novels but there are technical genre requirements that people complain about if they're not there, for instance, it's not meeting the expectations of a romance novel if one character dies in the end, it MUST have a happily ever after or at least 'happy for now' ending. There are, of course, lots of tragic love stories where someone dies, relationship based SoL and many other types of love story that work, but they aren't the same as the romance genre.
I completely agree that's why my example is one that isn't from western media. These are the building blocks to the Romance genre and it has worked. I find myself reading romance stories and thinking to myself that I would love to check in on this couple five years into said relationship. I find that anime/manga end up scratching that itch for me given the way they write drawn out stories.
In regards to Lily's 'I'm tired of Avatar clones' rule, I take an even more cynical view then you.
It smacks of the rotten discourse one used to see surrounding anything in the kid's media space with even vaguely Asian influence. English speaking audiences were so entirely unfamiliar with Asian cultures that they viewed anything resembling them as an Avatar rip-off.
Draw your own conclusions on how that might apply to Lily Orchard.
The thing she said about how it's immoral when the protagonist doesn't kill the villian is definitely about Steven Universe. She got so angry that they gave the main villains a chance to redeem themselves in a cartoon about like, redemption, that she called SU nazi propaganda or something. Not making that shit up, what's even funnier is that SU's creator is jewish. Tell this to a normal, grass-touching person and they'll be like "what?"
And to be fair, there are cases where main characters kill the villains in kid's cartoons, or just have on-screen deaths in general. Tho what I noticed is that they usually make the villian transform into some monstrous form, probably for the death to not seem too violent. On the other hand, there are shows like Adventure Time that have a lot of pretty shocking (though not that graphic) on-screen deaths, but I'd say it's more of an exception than the rule, since AT is more of a "how did they get this past the censors" kinda show. And I can remember at least 4 kids movies that have protags killing the Big Bad, but again maybe it's cinema and TV standarts being different.
You can criticize that kind of decision, but painting that as something sooo terrible (in a kid's show about helping others and finding non-violent solutions) and calling creators nazis for it is super deranged. Literally "everyone I don't like is Hitler"
Lol, chest safety for youtube?
But seriously great vid, and hope to see more vids on you just talking about stories you love, always like hearing someone gush on a story that touches their heart in some way
Also, i still miss Elsa...
I always find "this story panders to pdf-files" such a weird thing to say.
Seriously, how big of a demographic do people think they represent? I'm pretty sure your story won't have a big following if they are your target audience.
@@lucasvanwijngaarden670 I think she forget that teenagers exist.
@@Saltedroastedcaramel Or she underestimates how horny teenagers are
I would rather take writing advice from Tommy Wiseau than Lily Orchard
Writing Tip 6 is a reference to The Legend of Korra where throughout the series Korra and another character were involved in a love triangle plot but in the final scene of the series finale they kiss and confirmed they were lesbians/bisexual.
Most of Lily Orchard's problems would be solved if she watched more than children's media but when she does watch something intended for teens/adults she completely misunderstands it. She watches all fiction with the perspective of a child. It's like asking a 7 year old to explain the plot and analyze Breaking Bad when all they've watched their whole life is Sesame Street.
No, it's likely the She Ra Reboot where one character Catra (former friend of the main protag and the recurring antagonist of show) kissing Adora (main protag) in the series finale. Korra didn't kiss Asami (the other character) in the LOK because they there weren't allowed at the time. With She ra, it was basically an abusive tumblr fan fic disguised as a reboot of an 80's cartoon. Not defending Lily here, mainly because her "tips" doesn't really make any sense, but that show did had issues and overhyped.
@@Saltedroastedcaramel Thank you for the correction. I never watched She-Ra so I was missing that important context. I misremembered what happened in Korra since I haven’t watched it in a long time. My bad.
Actually, there are a couple villains that get killed in My Little Pony. King Sombra is disintegrated. The Storm King gets turned into a statue and is then shattered into pieces. There are several more villains that are turned to stone indefinitely. The show is darker than you'd think it'd be.
We are around 25 and I`m already exhausted. Any good stories on the other channel?
Random people on YT? I feel called out.
Hated her "tips" so much I clicked the dislike button twice and liked your response, so clicked the thumbs up once
I once watched Lily Orchard’s Korra review, I don’t like Korra, but her takes were…yeah. I also watched her Steven Universe video and she acts like Rebecca Sugar stole her lunch money as she’s just full of passive aggressive vitriol, and she takes a few pot shots at God ( I’m a Christian so that bugged me), but..has she always been like this?
Lily Orchard's "Tops" are less constructive criticism, and more like the Code of Hammurabi at best, or holy scripture at worst. Lily's tips are very draconian and dogmatic, it's basically a cudgel for her to discipline her own audience, not just in their writing, but also in their conduct, that's way too much authority for someone like Lily to have over your freewill. In addition, for someone who rails against whitewashing, Lily still comes off as a Western chauvinist, especially when she compared "Friends" with anime as a whole, and how much better this 90s sitcom is when compared with all of anime. These tips are awfully unprofessional and highly opinionated, Lily has no neutrality, it's heavily biased toward her appeals and fetishes, and against tropes and cliches that pisses her off, by the way, the white character Lily is talking about is Hunter from The Owl House. Lily was fine with Amity, the other white character in the Disney show, but that was because Amity is a girl, Lily has a strong fetish for lesbians, it doesn't matter if they are written poorly or scantily clad, Lily will make exceptions, after all, these tips are for ye - not for thee.
Don't forget, she's not even native american. She is a fully white woman who still continues to draw herself as brown with feather earrings. Some call it "pretendian"