6:25 it is the blue dice that gets to go (blue is surprised only 1 segment and red is surprised for 2 segments). Surprise segments are not part of a melee round. They are just surprise segments. After the surprise segments are resolved combat continues on a round by round basis. Also note that surprise only happens if the parties are 3" or less apart when they meet.
The only part you need to mention, is that actions are declared before Initiative is rolled. Nicely done. A couple of minor points, but overall, you've covered the topic well and explained it nicely. Thanks for the upload.
I second David's motion. I think you're the first one to actually say that you're rolling for the other side. Your roll is the segment in which the other side begins to act. I recommend ADDICT that is found on Dragon'sFoot. This is imperative to understand especially regarding attacks vs. spell casters.
This just cannot be correct. First off, surprise segments are outside of a combat round. Second, when rolling initiative our roll does not become the the segment of the opposing side. It states in the DMG p.62. I will also point out that it cannot be the way you suggest for initiative since if one side rolls a 1 and the other rolls a 2 how can they go on a segment they are surprised in and cannot act? With that being said, I do find your suggestions interesting as alternate rules, but to say these are the rules as written, as presented in the DMG and PHB is just not true. Watching more. Dexterity reaction modifier is used to mitigate the number of segments a character is surprised it does not modify initiative.
I wanna thank you. So much.. for this video. Great job. In my opinion ..you won the internet on the release of this video. No one has explained this as accurate and amusing as you have. Huzzah.. Huzzah.. Keep the videos going my man. You are one of my favorites...maybe 1 day we may play each other's games.
9:32 Spell casting is usually announced, before rolling for initiative. You could permit spell casters to announce their start to casting later in the round. This would futher complicate the rules, because if the caster announces on a segment prior to their side's actual initiative roll result. The rolls may not permit the casting to start on the announced segment. The default would have to be start on a initiative roll of 1. That means the spell caster attempting to cast must wait, before casting in combat at least 30 seconds. DMG pg 63 Awaiting Action: This is self-explanatory, not an attempt to parley but neither an attack. It is seldom utilized by experienced adventures. DMG pg 65 Spell Casting During Melee The caster cannot begin a spell, interrupt it just prior to completion, run to a different area, and then complete the spell; interruption instantly cancels it.
You failed to mention declaration phase, and weapon speed factor, and reaction/attacking adjustments - all which factor into what segment you go on. Also, characters using a reach weapon, like a pole arm, that is set to receive a charge goes first out of order. And missiles are launched at the start of the round, but are not resolved until the end of the round.
Your initiative is incorrect. Pg. 62 of the DM's guide says specifically that a dice is rolled for the party & for the monsters & the higher of the two dice has initiative. It says nothing about rolling for the opposite party.
I never played Ad&d1e cause I never understood how combat works (and I was born in 86). And the funny thing is that every explanation video end up being even more complicated than the books, and the comments always mention that the video is wrong. How did people even play this game?
Hey I know this was a while ago, but if 1 side rolls a 1 on their initiative, and the other rolls a 2, the side that rolled the 2 is surprised for one segment, not vice versa.
I love 1st and 2nd edition, and never played 3rd, but there's one obvious problem with 1 minute rounds. In grade school, we had a Junior Olympics every year and one event was the 50 yard dash. We ran that in about 7-8 seconds. The really slow people took about 10 seconds. So a really slow person would run about 300 yards in 1 minute. I don't think I need to explain any further.
Don’t forget that each 1 minute round is broken up into 10 six second segments. The idea is also that people aren’t going on a dead sprint for a minute they are engaged in combat, or about to be. So they are circling each other, looking for better positions, etc. That said many people do house rule times to better suit their game world. It does take some work though to convert spell casting times. Thanks for the comment!
Ok, normal movement speed for a human is 12" or 120 feet. That is careful movement speed in a dungeon. Outdoor movement is in yards. And running speed is triple your movement speed. So that would be 360 yards in 1 minute. Does that work out better for you? Also remember that most characters would be running with equipment and armor.
@@CaptCook999 yes, that works out very well, so you're saying that 1st edition rules say you can move up to 360 yards/round of combat. This is the first time I've ever heard that... but thanks
@@Lightmane not combat. That is outdoor running speed such as fleeing an enemy or running towards something. Combat speed is slower. You cannot run and fire a bow effectively or dash around swinging at an opponent accurately. Also remember that you may be in a 10 foot wide hallway so running around is not really an option in a crowded hallway.
A turn is 600 seconds, a round is 60 seconds, and a segment is 6 seconds. Add them up and you get Gary’s secret 666 hidden in the game. The time is short.
In my opinion the time-frame for combat in AD&D is simply far too long, in one minute most combats should already be over, perhaps an effective alternate method would be one round = 10 seconds, with each segment being a single second long. This would inflate the amount of time certain effects last, but one could simply just shorten them, or just have the effect last more rounds anyway. While 10 seconds is still questionably slow for things like melee combat, it allows the abstraction to be kept without a small fight lasting as long as a full-scale battle.
I’ve tried to do the time house rule like you describe here but find it just gets confusing for both me and the players as we are recompiling durations of everything. But I can certainly see the appeal - I’m just too lazy to make it work. Thanks for the commment!
yup That's the way i do it. A movement turn is 10 x 1 minute movement rounds A melee turn is 6 x 10 second melee rounds (1 minute) and each melee round is 10 x 1 second segments. 6 x 10 second melee rounds (1 minute ) is a melee turn. If your combat goes for 10 minutes that's 60 potential combat actions.
You would be hard pressed to swing a sword fully in 1second. Try swinging a baseball bat, with control and accuracy, and see how long it takes you to make 10 swings. Now do it while moving and deflecting blows and see how long it takes. It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to have 1 second segments! Now, just try talking. How many words could you say loudly and clearly in 1 second, 10 seconds. So how is a magic user going to cast spells? Fighters would get a gazillion attacks before a mage could cast even the simplist of spells.
It is probable that when the combatants are weak and equal powered in close quarters, the fight could run for several minutes. But when one side is over powered (say, level 8th fighter versus level 0th footman), it would likely end within the first 36 seconds due to multiple to-hit rolls the level 8th fighter posses. A 0th level footman is still a trained fighter, so it is not unusual that he would last more than a minute. I don't see a major problem with the 1 minute rounds abstraction.
Hit points do not represent physical harm to players. It represents mistakes permitted, before being killed. You can always go the Chainmail route. Where you get hit once, and instantly die.
6:25 it is the blue dice that gets to go (blue is surprised only 1 segment and red is surprised for 2 segments). Surprise segments are not part of a melee round. They are just surprise segments. After the surprise segments are resolved combat continues on a round by round basis. Also note that surprise only happens if the parties are 3" or less apart when they meet.
Extremely helpful, I started with 1E, getting back to it and relearning my favorite edition.
The only part you need to mention, is that actions are declared before Initiative is rolled.
Nicely done. A couple of minor points, but overall, you've covered the topic well and explained it nicely.
Thanks for the upload.
It was in my notes. I guess I jumped over it. Thanks for commenting.
Agreed with David, best segment explanation I've seen and, yes, very meaningful to mention the declaration of actions beforehands
When you think about it makes perfect sense
I second David's motion. I think you're the first one to actually say that you're rolling for the other side. Your roll is the segment in which the other side begins to act. I recommend ADDICT that is found on Dragon'sFoot. This is imperative to understand especially regarding attacks vs. spell casters.
This just cannot be correct. First off, surprise segments are outside of a combat round. Second, when rolling initiative our roll does not become the the segment of the opposing side. It states in the DMG p.62. I will also point out that it cannot be the way you suggest for initiative since if one side rolls a 1 and the other rolls a 2 how can they go on a segment they are surprised in and cannot act? With that being said, I do find your suggestions interesting as alternate rules, but to say these are the rules as written, as presented in the DMG and PHB is just not true.
Watching more. Dexterity reaction modifier is used to mitigate the number of segments a character is surprised it does not modify initiative.
Awesome explanation, as someone coming from B/X, this really helped me.
I wanna thank you. So much.. for this video.
Great job.
In my opinion ..you won the internet on the release of this video.
No one has explained this as accurate and amusing as you have.
Huzzah.. Huzzah..
Keep the videos going my man. You are one of my favorites...maybe 1 day we may play each other's games.
9:32
Spell casting is usually announced, before rolling for initiative. You could permit spell casters to announce their start to casting later in the round. This would futher complicate the rules, because if the caster announces on a segment prior to their side's actual initiative roll result. The rolls may not permit the casting to start on the announced segment. The default would have to be start on a initiative roll of 1. That means the spell caster attempting to cast must wait, before casting in combat at least 30 seconds.
DMG pg 63
Awaiting Action:
This is self-explanatory, not an attempt to parley but neither an attack. It is seldom utilized by experienced adventures.
DMG pg 65
Spell Casting During Melee
The caster cannot begin a spell, interrupt it just prior to completion, run to a different area, and then complete the spell; interruption instantly cancels it.
Great breakdown. Thank you!
Great video
You failed to mention declaration phase, and weapon speed factor, and reaction/attacking adjustments - all which factor into what segment you go on. Also, characters using a reach weapon, like a pole arm, that is set to receive a charge goes first out of order. And missiles are launched at the start of the round, but are not resolved until the end of the round.
Keep AD&D alive!
Add a few house rules to play clean.
Thank you for covering this topic .
Did you forget to apply weapon speed or is that in another video?
Your initiative is incorrect. Pg. 62 of the DM's guide says specifically that a dice is rolled for the party & for the monsters & the higher of the two dice has initiative. It says nothing about rolling for the opposite party.
I don’t see any weapon speed here?
I never played Ad&d1e cause I never understood how combat works (and I was born in 86). And the funny thing is that every explanation video end up being even more complicated than the books, and the comments always mention that the video is wrong. How did people even play this game?
Hey I know this was a while ago, but if 1 side rolls a 1 on their initiative, and the other rolls a 2, the side that rolled the 2 is surprised for one segment, not vice versa.
Thanks for the comment. Yeah, I do have a much newer video where I go into better detail on surprise rolls and when/how to use them.
@jamesdeer3129 Yeah, as far as I can tell people didn't tend to actually play by the rules because the rules are incoherent haha
I love 1st and 2nd edition, and never played 3rd, but there's one obvious problem with 1 minute rounds.
In grade school, we had a Junior Olympics every year and one event was the 50 yard dash. We ran that in about 7-8 seconds. The really slow people took about 10 seconds.
So a really slow person would run about 300 yards in 1 minute. I don't think I need to explain any further.
Don’t forget that each 1 minute round is broken up into 10 six second segments. The idea is also that people aren’t going on a dead sprint for a minute they are engaged in combat, or about to be. So they are circling each other, looking for better positions, etc.
That said many people do house rule times to better suit their game world. It does take some work though to convert spell casting times.
Thanks for the comment!
Ok, normal movement speed for a human is 12" or 120 feet. That is careful movement speed in a dungeon.
Outdoor movement is in yards. And running speed is triple your movement speed. So that would be 360 yards in 1 minute.
Does that work out better for you? Also remember that most characters would be running with equipment and armor.
@@CaptCook999 yes, that works out very well, so you're saying that 1st edition rules say you can move up to 360 yards/round of combat. This is the first time I've ever heard that... but thanks
@@Lightmane not combat. That is outdoor running speed such as fleeing an enemy or running towards something.
Combat speed is slower. You cannot run and fire a bow effectively or dash around swinging at an opponent accurately.
Also remember that you may be in a 10 foot wide hallway so running around is not really an option in a crowded hallway.
@@CaptCook999 yes. Movement is up to 360 yards per minute. Cool. Never heard anyone say it until now though.
This is not !e- it's 2e...right?
A turn is 600 seconds, a round is 60 seconds, and a segment is 6 seconds. Add them up and you get Gary’s secret 666 hidden in the game. The time is short.
Could build lots of conspiracy theories from that. Lol.
In my opinion the time-frame for combat in AD&D is simply far too long, in one minute most combats should already be over, perhaps an effective alternate method would be one round = 10 seconds, with each segment being a single second long. This would inflate the amount of time certain effects last, but one could simply just shorten them, or just have the effect last more rounds anyway. While 10 seconds is still questionably slow for things like melee combat, it allows the abstraction to be kept without a small fight lasting as long as a full-scale battle.
I’ve tried to do the time house rule like you describe here but find it just gets confusing for both me and the players as we are recompiling durations of everything. But I can certainly see the appeal - I’m just too lazy to make it work.
Thanks for the commment!
yup That's the way i do it. A movement turn is 10 x 1 minute movement rounds
A melee turn is 6 x 10 second melee rounds (1 minute) and each melee round is 10 x 1 second segments.
6 x 10 second melee rounds (1 minute ) is a melee turn. If your combat goes for 10 minutes that's 60 potential combat actions.
You would be hard pressed to swing a sword fully in 1second.
Try swinging a baseball bat, with control and accuracy, and see how long it takes you to make 10 swings. Now do it while moving and deflecting blows and see how long it takes.
It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to have 1 second segments!
Now, just try talking. How many words could you say loudly and clearly in 1 second, 10 seconds. So how is a magic user going to cast spells?
Fighters would get a gazillion attacks before a mage could cast even the simplist of spells.
It is probable that when the combatants are weak and equal powered in close quarters, the fight could run for several minutes. But when one side is over powered (say, level 8th fighter versus level 0th footman), it would likely end within the first 36 seconds due to multiple to-hit rolls the level 8th fighter posses. A 0th level footman is still a trained fighter, so it is not unusual that he would last more than a minute.
I don't see a major problem with the 1 minute rounds abstraction.
Hit points do not represent physical harm to players. It represents mistakes permitted, before being killed. You can always go the Chainmail route. Where you get hit once, and instantly die.
Segments, weapon speed, weapon versus armor tables: what a hot mess.
If by "hot mess" you mean a system designed over hundreds of hours of play-testing and which actually works and makes sense. So unlike WotC D&D.