As usual, I'll point out my mistakes before others do :-D 1) At one point I say "Chainmail has two different morale systems." Of course as I was talking about turn structure at the time, I misspoke and meant to say "two different turn structure systems". 2) I said the OD&D books don't mention initiative or turn structure at all. I exaggerated - while there is no initiative system given, Dexterity is said to modify who gets first hit. 3) While talking about the Fantasy and Jousting tables, I show the Jousting Tables and the Fantasy Reference Table. I don't show the Fantasy Table, which is on another page.
Having tested Chainmail with the host I can say that he knows what he's talking about. Looking at the book the game's rules can be intimidating, but we got it boiled down to the point in which it's possible to run games pretty quickly.
Yeah I've used both the d20 and the CHAINMAIL combat system in OD&D, these two games are very much compatible. Though my players mostly liked using the d20 system just because we like rolling the fancy weird dice.
Glad to see you back, I discovered your other Chainmail videos a while back while I was working on exactly what you are taking about here. I’ve been mostly using the “normal” and fantasy combat systems and created troop type tables for missile weapons. It didn’t occur to me to use man to man with monsters - but as soon as you said it, I thought of the mounted combat and how horses can attack as a mace etc. you’ve got my mind working again lol. Thanks so much for the content, I look forward to seeing more in the future.
@@ExperimentalGameology yes! We started with large groups but have gone down to smaller situations as I use it for the lower level monsters as well - you do reach situations though we’re eventually one side just can’t hurt the other - at that point they either run or I allow the PCs to narrate the victory. There are certainly holes in the system which is why I’ve been in a sense re-writing it, but all in all it’s been very fun.
Another problem with using the mass-combat tables for D&D is that there is no simple correspondence between no armor/leather/mail/plate individuals and light/heavy/armored troops. The latter refers to a combination of fighting formation, style, and skill in addition to armor and weapons.
Seems like the downside of the multiple systems was that it was daunting to learn, but the upside is that switching to a different method for different combats might keep things fresh. Instead of just another battle, it's a joust or a duel. Different systems can also handle each situation in a way that's tailored to its specifics, instead of forcing everything into one box. And it can give the players options to adjust the pace. Use the faster combat when you don't want to get bogged down, the more detailed one when you're in the mood for a fight.
I respect everyone's attempt to express their understanding of how to play OD&D, but inevitably I would do it a bit differently, that's part of the fun of it.
Fantasy Combat Table - big monster vs big monster, except when the contest is between hero (level 4 fighting man) & hero, hero vs superhero (8th level fighting man), hero or superhero vs big monster, or wizard contra mundum. Why would you want to roleplay heroes & superheroes, or wizards in D&D RPG? it's a puzzle. Use hero for L1-4, & superhero for L5-8. Clerics? Thieves? No thieves in D&D, & clerics are like fighting men wrt to combat. Wizards get to use the one table row for ever - they are unlikely to be in HTH combat anyway, & even if they are you can't expect them to have paid too much attention to development of combat skills. The FCT Matrix divides somewhat into six monster levels if you examine hero & superhero die rolls. You will find table of six levels of monsters in Volume 3 of the Three Booklets. You can design 12 + levels of Underworld using tables from Volume 3.
If using Chainmail, monsters in OD&D have fighting ability & attack etc. as one figure per HD of creature. A 6+3 HD troll attacks as 6-man (i.e. 6-figure) rolling +3 on one of the six 6-sided die. It takes 6 figures worth of hits before being dead. Classes are rated by 'man/men' according to level. A 3rd level wizard (conjurer) fights as 2 men (can therefore take 2 hits). Use Chainmail Combat Tables (OD&D gives options as to how players can resolve man-to-man combat - Chainmail Combat Table, Fantasy Combat Table, Alternative Combat Table & weapon vs AC)). Ref: Booklets I (class levels & fighting ability), II (monster tables), III (Land Combat). Confusing? Man = figure = 10 men, 20 men, or 1 man worth 10 or 20 or 30 or 50 or 100 men. Troll is level 5 monster with 6+3 HD & attacks/defends 6 times per round - i.e. rolls 6d6. OD&D and Chainmail rules are like Snakes & Ladders with wizards, dragons & 6 tribes of orcs.
To use a combat system from Chainmail with 5e would be weird, as the two games are based on very different premises. But Chainmail can always be used for mass battles for any medieval or fantasy RPG, as everything can just be abstracted away into Chainmail statistics
I think I've explained the mechanics in my other Chainmail videos, or is there still something missing after you take those videos into account? I'm running some more D&D + Chainmail games at the moment, so I might make some more in depth videos about this in future.
@@ExperimentalGameology Alright well maybe you could do a demonstration of playing Chainmail as you explain the rules. What I heard was merely exposition where you compare the concept of it to other games.
As usual, I'll point out my mistakes before others do :-D 1) At one point I say "Chainmail has two different morale systems." Of course as I was talking about turn structure at the time, I misspoke and meant to say "two different turn structure systems". 2) I said the OD&D books don't mention initiative or turn structure at all. I exaggerated - while there is no initiative system given, Dexterity is said to modify who gets first hit. 3) While talking about the Fantasy and Jousting tables, I show the Jousting Tables and the Fantasy Reference Table. I don't show the Fantasy Table, which is on another page.
I wish I had bought these when I first learned how to play D&D back in 1980. Would've been great to have these.
Having tested Chainmail with the host I can say that he knows what he's talking about. Looking at the book the game's rules can be intimidating, but we got it boiled down to the point in which it's possible to run games pretty quickly.
It makes sense that a shield would be better than leather armour on the Missile Fire Table.
Yeah I've used both the d20 and the CHAINMAIL combat system in OD&D, these two games are very much compatible. Though my players mostly liked using the d20 system just because we like rolling the fancy weird dice.
Yes, polyhedral dice do have their own attraction. I'd be interested to know which parts of Chainmail have worked best for your OD&D games.
Glad to see you back, I discovered your other Chainmail videos a while back while I was working on exactly what you are taking about here. I’ve been mostly using the “normal” and fantasy combat systems and created troop type tables for missile weapons. It didn’t occur to me to use man to man with monsters - but as soon as you said it, I thought of the mounted combat and how horses can attack as a mace etc. you’ve got my mind working again lol. Thanks so much for the content, I look forward to seeing more in the future.
Cool, I'd like to hear more about your games. Have you been using the "normal" tables with larger or smaller numbers on each side?
@@ExperimentalGameology yes! We started with large groups but have gone down to smaller situations as I use it for the lower level monsters as well - you do reach situations though we’re eventually one side just can’t hurt the other - at that point they either run or I allow the PCs to narrate the victory. There are certainly holes in the system which is why I’ve been in a sense re-writing it, but all in all it’s been very fun.
Very detailed so much knowledge. Can tell that this person uses these systems Fairly often. Great job very clear explanations.
Really interesting! I started with B/X but I find OD&D extremely attractive. I'd be interested in your thoughts regarding Swords & Spells also.
Swords and Spells was meant to supersede Chainmail. Have you examined it?
I'm grateful for the reminder, I do want to get on to it soon!
Another problem with using the mass-combat tables for D&D is that there is no simple correspondence between no armor/leather/mail/plate individuals and light/heavy/armored troops. The latter refers to a combination of fighting formation, style, and skill in addition to armor and weapons.
THE MAN IS BACK
Seems like the downside of the multiple systems was that it was daunting to learn, but the upside is that switching to a different method for different combats might keep things fresh. Instead of just another battle, it's a joust or a duel. Different systems can also handle each situation in a way that's tailored to its specifics, instead of forcing everything into one box. And it can give the players options to adjust the pace. Use the faster combat when you don't want to get bogged down, the more detailed one when you're in the mood for a fight.
How do you feel about ODnD clones like Delving Deeper and Whitebox ? Do you like how they approach the game?
I respect everyone's attempt to express their understanding of how to play OD&D, but inevitably I would do it a bit differently, that's part of the fun of it.
11:14 monster this not for fantastic combat? Like dungeon (boardgame)?
For example, you need 12 for hit the dragon...?
If you monster can wield weapon use man-to-man if not use fantastic combat.
Because chainmail came first but it was for miniature army not just d&d.
Fantasy Combat Table - big monster vs big monster, except when the contest is between hero (level 4 fighting man) & hero, hero vs superhero (8th level fighting man), hero or superhero vs big monster, or wizard contra mundum. Why would you want to roleplay heroes & superheroes, or wizards in D&D RPG? it's a puzzle.
Use hero for L1-4, & superhero for L5-8. Clerics? Thieves? No thieves in D&D, & clerics are like fighting men wrt to combat. Wizards get to use the one table row for ever - they are unlikely to be in HTH combat anyway, & even if they are you can't expect them to have paid too much attention to development of combat skills.
The FCT Matrix divides somewhat into six monster levels if you examine hero & superhero die rolls. You will find table of six levels of monsters in Volume 3 of the Three Booklets. You can design 12 + levels of Underworld using tables from Volume 3.
If using Chainmail, monsters in OD&D have fighting ability & attack etc. as one figure per HD of creature. A 6+3 HD troll attacks as 6-man (i.e. 6-figure) rolling +3 on one of the six 6-sided die. It takes 6 figures worth of hits before being dead.
Classes are rated by 'man/men' according to level. A 3rd level wizard (conjurer) fights as 2 men (can therefore take 2 hits). Use Chainmail Combat Tables (OD&D gives options as to how players can resolve man-to-man combat - Chainmail Combat Table, Fantasy Combat Table, Alternative Combat Table & weapon vs AC)).
Ref: Booklets I (class levels & fighting ability), II (monster tables), III (Land Combat).
Confusing? Man = figure = 10 men, 20 men, or 1 man worth 10 or 20 or 30 or 50 or 100 men. Troll is level 5 monster with 6+3 HD & attacks/defends 6 times per round - i.e. rolls 6d6.
OD&D and Chainmail rules are like Snakes & Ladders with wizards, dragons & 6 tribes of orcs.
Now do 5e with chainmail
To use a combat system from Chainmail with 5e would be weird, as the two games are based on very different premises. But Chainmail can always be used for mass battles for any medieval or fantasy RPG, as everything can just be abstracted away into Chainmail statistics
I´ve tried listening to you several times over but you refuse to explain the game. What you do is talking about the circumstances AROUND gameplay.
I think I've explained the mechanics in my other Chainmail videos, or is there still something missing after you take those videos into account? I'm running some more D&D + Chainmail games at the moment, so I might make some more in depth videos about this in future.
@@ExperimentalGameology Alright well maybe you could do a demonstration of playing Chainmail as you explain the rules. What I heard was merely exposition where you compare the concept of it to other games.
Great video and very informative. Perfect for how I want to use chainmail and OD&D.