The fact that a rear-drive only, manual Caddy is more than half a sec faster than BMW's sharpest model speaks volumes. Round of applause for the Blackwing!!
agreed, there's a reason most enthusiasts stick to old bimmers, had they not gone down the tech route maybe they wouldn't be embarrassed by beer-chugging "more displacement=better car" Americans. New BMW is a joke they haven't done anything exciting since putting an 8k revving v8 in the m3.
@@lesqueegly764 i don't think BMW will be doing anything special anytime soons considering how many of the engineers at M got poached to Hyundai's N division.
@@lesqueegly764 _beer-chugging "more displacement=better car" Americans_ I think that assessment of the Americans underestimates their ability to engineer feloniously fast cars. Remember - the old E92 M3 got a serious workout trying to stay ahead of the Boss 302 Laguna Seca....which still had a solid rear axle. The C5 Corvette had been a world beater long before ANY of this, and to this day remains in the same league as the original NSX and FD RX-7 when it comes to 90's performance icons that can stop and corner as hard as they accelerate. The Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR....kinda needs no introduction. I got a massive kick out of seeing Jeremy Clarkson have to eat his words when he found out it took the overall production car record at the Ring....and then again when the C7 Stingray ate the beloved 987 Cayman for breakfast around the TG test track. BMW is indeed quite an embarrassment to itself, these days - they throw all that electronic stuff at their cars hoping to claim every record and fall well short every time, sacrificing the experience in the process. However, I'm not gonna pretend that the Americans only just now came out of left field to mop the floor with them. Guess I'm a little too patriotic for that. 🦅🦅🦅
Wow, the Cadillac CT5-V blackwing chassis proves how good it handling really is. The fact that it was manual and did this well shows how amazing this car is!!! GM nailed it!!
Kinda sad that it seems like when GM designers are allowed to do their own thing, they produce wonderful cars. But, in the normal market they're very lackluster.
@@watnw2411 it's not a old truck chassis man. The Tesla was losing speed in the corners but made up time on the straights. The Cadillac CT5-V blackwing chassis is better balanced.
Exactly. Once you realize just how much harder the Plaid accelerate (as per the other video, it's like 1/3rd down the drag strip by the time the Plaid is done), then you see that the Caddy was in the lead until the end of the last straight (where the Plaid could unleash its full power). Amazing.
Have to say, I was shocked that a rwd, manual car was able to beat the awd, auto. Let's be honest, 99.9% of the population would be faster in the awd auto car. Only Randy can overcome the effort penalty of rwd and a manual tranny. I don't know who impressed me more, the car or the driver.
@@edwint1780 that shows how well the CT5-V blackwing chassis is. Rwd seem more responsive on curvy tracks where AWD cars tend to understeer a little bit.
Sure, from a production standpoint it’s leagues better than what the other two previously mentioned channels can put out, but we are talking personal preference and entertainment value.
@@osmiumtank i've never understood the love for Savage Geese. If it were a magazine from the early 90s, it would probably be Automobile. I.e., nice to look at when it's at the dentist office, but not anything you'd actually pay money to subscribe.
Who'd have thunk 20 years ago 2 American companies would make the 2 fastest sedans in the world? And who in the hell would've known how truly different they would be.
On the other hand, Tesla still has not unlocked the full speed of the Plaid, currently limited to 160ish mph when it's supposed to hit 200mph with about the same acceleration curve we see here. Also Tesla is still working on their extremely popular and effective "Track mode" package for the Plaid, and we've seen how dramatic that is to the performance of the entry level Model 3 line. It's just the early innings of a massive EV disruption wave right around the corner, Plaid - which is just a big family sedan - is merely the tip of the iceberg.
@@AllanSustainabilityFan No software update will shave mass off the nearly 5000 lb Plaid, and at the end of the day, you can't cheat physics and make a ballerina out of a hippo. The Plaid will never be a great handling track car because of its porky mass and air suspension.
@@ganymede3141 hey at this point if you were around long enough you would have seen all the things they said the model S couldn’t do years ago. Trust me I was one of them. And as the years go by one by one they are being checked off. Look it like this, what I saw spacex did with those rockets made me believe anything is possible. So sit back and keep watching. I take it when all the marks are check they will finally fall back on “ the car doesn’t sound like a v8”.
@@ChosenMJ Let me rephrase it more to your liking: The Plaid will, eventually, with proper suspension, carbon ceramic brakes, tires and aero, be a more competent track car than it is today. However, given the state of peak battery technology and the mass associated with such batteries, the Plaid will remain mass-compromised until such time as Mr. Fusion or a similar light, high-energy generating or storage device is invented, which may take decades or longer. Until such time, the Plaid will remain a heavy family sedan with lots of inertia to overcome and a high polar moment of inertia resisting quick rotation and turn-in, therefore compromising its handling, and making it ill-suited as a track car, and will be bested in the handling department by lighter, more nimble vehicles. Better?
That Icons video was the best video I've ever seen of this nature. You guys did a remarkable job and people are missing out if they haven't watched it!
This was a brilliant bonus follow up to a fantastic video. Using the engine noise to augment where the contents were coming from was a stroke of genius Very surprised at how much of that lap the Cadillac was in front.
this is great would love to see a track overlay with more telemetry but these cars were pretty close to each other throughout its that thrust at the last straight that gets the tesla in front. I'll take the caddy
@@TML34, okay… but a track with longer straights would have shown the BMW’s and the Cadillac’s straight line acceleration weaknesses. You play the cards you’re dealt with the chips you have.
AWD cars sometimes don't like turn at times resulting understeer. Rwd cars seem to be more flexible and more responsive on curvy tracks. Also, the CT5-V blackwing chassis is well built and flexible.
@@yusufgta4341 Curiously, if you watch the Throttle House videos for the two cars, it's the CT5-V that they comment on understeer with. And I believe the M5 CS AWD is heavily RWD biased if there's traction at the rear. Willow Springs is also definitely a fast track. 9 turns in ~2 1/5 miles is not a lot. Regardless both are awesome cars!
@@m1l3s27 and (I'm) James's commentary above all? =D Randy is certainly the better driver, but him being faster in the V on this track doesn't necessarily say which understeers more.
And the insane thing is, the current Plaid uses what for Tesla is already last-gen technology. Build it with megacasts in front and back, put a 4680 structural battery pack in, and without any changes in form factor you will get a car about 400-500 lbs lighter, with a stiffer chassis, and most likely able to use all the 1200 hp of the 3 motors (right now the battery output is the limit). Both changes already exist, just not in the mass production. Add better brakes, and *then* you will get a real beast.
And that's not even close to the true power of this beast a guy on Reddit was able to hack his tesla and his vehicle is heavily underpowered soo many things disabled, that's why tesla said they will push and update to unlock it and the dude said he doesn't want tesla to void his warranty and not get access to the supercharger incase the hack causes a problem with the station .
This was the best car video I've watched in a long time. Love this format. It's outstanding to see Randy still grinding the track. My favorite racer ever.
I'll take the CT5-V manual over any other mass production sedan thank you very much. Being a a longtime V1 owner myself, I can't think of any other sedan being even close to the CTS-V in reliability ease of maintenance all while sporting a 6 spd manual.
Love the bonus, I personally skipped over the previous video when it was first published because I didn’t realize it was an Icons episode. Just put Cammisa and Probst as the thumbnail ;)
For the inevitable EV vs ICE discussion about to ensue - what car enthusiasts forget is that most people are not car enthusiasts and most ICE cars are not BMW M-cars, Porsches or Ferraris. Look around and you will notice that 99% of ICE cars on the road are dismal - boring crossovers and sluggish sedans with piggish handling. When the drivers of these average ICE cars with terrible handling, buzzy harsh 4-cyclinder engines and horrible transmissions first step into a Tesla Model 3 for example they will be blown away - not just by the effortless smooth and incredible acceleration, but by the handling. Yes, while the handling dynamics in a Tesla may pale to those of a great ICE driver's car, it is actually quite good due to the low center of gravity and decent steering feel compared to the average run of the mill ICE car. I have a 2016 Model S Performance (P90D) and I also have a 997.2 911, 2 M-sport BMWs, and an Audi B8 S4 (all manuals). I would say I like the steering feel of the Model S overall better than the B8 S4 which says more about the S4's steering feel perhaps than the Tesla's. The point being that while car enthusiasts will continue to recognize that driving a 6-speed manual, great sounding, responsive and great handing ICE car is the superior experience, to the average person coming from an average car, a basic EV will be a superior experience blowing away their prior conceptions of performance and (yes) handling. It is a conundrum. And making matters worse is those great ICE drivers cars are getting harder to find as newer performance cars are bigger, heavier, more isolating and less analog than ever, so the pool of actual ICE cars delivering a more viceral experience over than of EVs is shrinking.
That's a very enlightening point you made. It's true that a lot of people misanalyze this and compare EVs to great driver's ICE cars, when the more common case is EVs against boring ICE cars, in which EVs will almost always be more enjoyable to drive than ICE cars.
The way I look at it, quick and popular adoption of EVS means all the terrible ICEs go away and will allow manufacturers the regulatory bandwidth to focus all remaining ICE production on enthusiast options. Once the vast majority of the driving population are in EVS, the environmental burden of ICE emissions from the remaining sports cars should be trivial.
@@vomErsten I'm kind of the in the same boat. I think ICE will become an enthusiast option in the future, similar to how people drive old MX-5s today as they're iconic and fun, even if they're not the fastest. I do honestly believe that EVs are going to become the go-to track cars if you're looking for lap times though. With a small 'track sized' battery similar to how we might get smaller fuel cells with ICE, I think there could be some serious track monsters. Of course, not everyone wants the fastest car. Fast isn't always the most fun for some people, the sound and feel can play a big part. Really depends on the kind of driving you like to do. :)
@@vomErsten I actually agree with this hope, but my fear is with such a small demand of fuel from a relatively small amount of gas powered cars, the price of gas will become very expensive. And at some point the cost of oil exploration, extraction and refinement will be prohibitively expensive with regards to the remaining market. This is where possibly synthetic/renewable fuel comes into play. Let's hope we can continue to operate enthusiast gas cars with an affordable fuel market for daily driving. And hope gas powered cars are just not for billionaires who can pay $1000 / gallon. Given electricity generation capacity and infrastructure, the full electric crossover from gas may be decades away. And if we do other smart things like agriculture drawdown and allowing oceans to return to health, we may not need to switch over to all electric cars anyway - maybe 60% of the world wide fleet is enough. On the other other hand, EVs may one day emulate ICE cars right down to specific torque curves, red lines, manual transmissions and sounds.
@@ChosenMJ sorry, but for me only counts the Nordschleife. A one Minute Hero Lap says nothing about the car. I bet you will drive a few rpunds on willow springs. I want to know how the track time Degeneration is by all three cars. Because i think the plaid degenerate more, because of the heavy weight, not the batterys. If you drive 3 rounds or more and the Breaks and the tires of the plaid are melting, it is very dangerous. You want a consisting track car, not a one lap car.
@@bernhard.k *You must not Watch MotorSports racing..??? There are Many Tracks across the world... Get into MotorSports and you will find out there is more than one Track!. That comment is just sad to hear these days...*
Is it just me or can one actually derive better automotive entertainment from car youtubers than from more established players like Top Gear, The Grand Tour and the Tiff Needell-less Fifth Gear? Also, if a stick equipped and RWD only Blackwing can hold its own against AWD and automatic track beasts like the M5 CS, how much faster will a 10-speed Blackwing be?
It probably could beat the tesla, at that point. Assuming the tesla's time doesn't get better. Though, with Randy behind the wheel I do wonder how much of a handicap a manual really is with him. While the 10-speed may shift faster, it might not necessarily inspire more confidence in the driver.
@@bitfunk24 I think the faster shifts might allow it to get level with the tesla (knocking off a tenth or 2 off acceleration times both on straight and corner over the whole lap) but like you said. It might be less confident to drive as well.
@@Arthagnou what's most impressive is how it is ahead a good part of the track. The Plaid just uses its massive acceleration to bring it home on that last straight.
GM is second to nobody at engineering a performant automobile and it has been that way since at least the mid 1980s. It's product planning and quality of manufacture that have been their perennial Achilles's Heel. Bravo for the CT-5V Blackwing, it's magnificent.
@@vomErsten I hope that Blackwing (and to an extent also the new C8 Z06) don’t suffer from their usual quality control issues. I’d argue GM these days is as bad as Tesla when it comes to quality control.
Damn its hilarious that the fastest production 4 door in willow springs is a car that isn't even made for track! Plaid is just a different breed of beast...and the fact that it hit it's limiter at the finish is hilarious.
Plaid is just a fantastic road car. Probably the best sedan we'll ever see in that respect. With some track mods (weight reduction bigger brakes) it is a track beast as well.
@@ekscalybur by the look of your posts your are still in the denial stage of grief. Electric cars are fast. Teslas are fun. ICE cars are also great in their own way. It’s not some war for who’s best. Get over it…..
@@floorit4443 agreed I've had the privedge of driving a plaid, and I can't really put the experience in words...but if I came down with dementia tomorrow, I'd probably remember the day I graduated highschool and college, the day I proposed to my gf (now wife), and my experience with the plaid. And I've driven exotics cars, ones with a manual. But nothing is more out of this world than a plaid.
I get that this is how flying laps work, but the mere fact that the Plaid starts the lap 20+ mph faster* is a big advantage. Willow Springs is also a very fast track. I still am surprised the CT5-V bested the M5. I wonder how fresh the Corsas were. Regardless, both are awesome cars. *BMWs have a tendency to show higher speeds on the dash than the actual. Not sure about GM.
Both the BMW and Cadillac were on brand-new OEM rubber. The Tesla was on... whatever it was given to us with. With fresh rubber, it might have been a touch quicker still.
@@JasonCammisa A reply from the man himself, I am honored! I truly enjoy your work, don't ever change. And thanks, that is good to know. Also glad you all posted this. Only thing missing was Randy's thoughts on the CS vs. V on track (the Plaid's pros/cons are quite obvious).
The M5 CS with track tires (Pirelli Corsa) slower than Tesla and Caddy with street tires (P4S)? Maybe possible in the US, but not at the Nürburgring… 😏😏
Cadillac has a well built chassis and rwd. Rwd cars usually feel better around the track due to more responsiveness in the corners. Also, the Cadillac was manual. The Cadillac would have gotten a even better time it they used the 10 speed automatic option.
@@vafan13 And higher stock price and more money in Elon's Scrooge McDuck money pit, which is ultimately all he cares about (the whole 'save the world' schpiel is just there to pull the righteousness wool over people's eyes while fleecing them).
@@ganymede3141 Your disdain for Tesla won't change a thing. While you're aging faster because of it Tesla will go forward successfully and you, well who cares. 🤣🤣🤣
@@ChosenMJ Your Elon-juice chugging also won't change a thing and won't keep you youthful either, no matter how many facials you get with it. But don't delude yourself into thinking that Elon is doing any of this for anything other than his own self-interest and wallet. He puts on a nice feel-good story about 'saving humanity', but that's just his vanity and need for attention and admiration talking, attention and admiration that he didn't get from his dad Errol growing up. As for Tesla's success, time will tell, but dozens of other car manufacturers producing their own EVs with much better build quality has already eaten into Tesla's market share, and will continue to do so as more EV models make it to market. And as Tesla's market share decreases, so will its revenues and earnings. Stay tuned for some fun stock adventures in the next few years as the hype-balloon loses hot air and comes back to Earth.
BMW M5 CS is a "family car" + a furious racing car + a luxury car + .... OMG I am extremely IMPRESSED by the M5 CS performance vs. the insane fast PLAID and the Cadillac Blackwing .... OMG BMW
Tesla Plaid doesn’t even have the track software that take advantage of its torque vectoring yet or have any performance brakes like the other two. Imagine when it does
I love this episode. I am very lucky to own 3 of the 4 fastest sedans according to this video. Tesla, obviously IS NOT one of them. Jaguar is the most fun one IMHO.
The caddy ain't nothing to play with the plaid took it in the last straight to finish line that's where that 1000hp 4 wheel drive came in for the win but damn the caddy rear wheel drive stick 👏👏👏 this channel is very good 👍
please test the CT5 VBW in auto form to see if it takes the crown back. very interested in seeing how much time is lost due to the manny (save the manuals tho!!!!!)
I'm pleasantly surprised. I was expecting the Plaid to have this huge lead going into Turn One, and that lead gets eroded during the rest of the lap as the BMW and Caddy handling advantage kicks in. But in the twisty stuff, there ain't actually that much in it.
In the Plaid the electronic nannies really get involved when it comes to technical tracks where the suspension and brakes are challenged. There are vids out there to confirm this. Randy Pobst has plenty of seat time in the Plaid so he knows how to get the most out of it without smoking the tires or brakes.
@@ChosenMJ It would be interesting to see what the Plaid can do, fitted with something like the Mountain Pass Partybox, which disables the traction control. Model 3 owners seem to report quite a decent improvement in laptime (and brake life) when so equipped.
Great video. I kind of which I had extra coin / garage space for the Blackwing. That's a killer sedan to drive now and a sure fire collectible model in a few short years when ICE cars are no longer available new...
The Tesla Plaid needs a big brake kit. Put that on the car and it will be even quicker around the track. Hopefully, Tesla will make one available as an option. I would love to see a Plaid with an aftermarket BBK go around Big Willow.
The M5 had the least torque by 100 ft-lbs compared to the Caddy and 40 less HP, too. The Tesla Plaid had way more HP and TQ than the BW and M5. The fact the M5 was so close speaks volumes about it, and it can out-accelerate the Blackwing any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Very impressive for the M5!
It benefits all three. If the Plaid was as bad on tracks as some folks make it out to be it would have finished way behind the other two. Speed isn't everything.
The funny thing is that the Tesla is 5 seconds slower on the Ring than the m5, even with a factory driver, while the m5 was just sport auto time. So it shows just one track doesn’t really show the potential of the m5 and ct5
The ring is a long we’ll rounded track. More time for the Tesla to run out of steam. If you don’t have the cooling or tires etc the ring will expose the flaw.
Remember the plaid isn't made for the track like he said and it still won imagine getting beaten at your own game damn that sad now all yall can do it make claim" if its had 1000hp like the plaid it would have won" if it had ceramic brakes it would have won" meanwhile the plaid cost less than these cars I could also make the same argument for the plaid "if its designed for track it would have definitely also won"
My aunt used to hate to not be able to get up to speed with other fast cars but because of Tesla, she would sometimes challenge me to a race😭👍 Its good that finally old folks found a car for them
I am curious how many laps could you get out of the Tesla versus the Cadillac and the BMW total... Meaning if the gasoline cars had a full tank of gas at the beginning, and the Tesla had a full charge.
@@joshpinchuk7061 at full throttle the car would be getting around 2-3 miles to a gallon.. but it won't be at Full throttle when it's approaching corners and winding turns.. so let's say it's at Full throttle 50% of the time, that would give the car about 4 to 6 miles per gallon. Willow Springs is 2.5 mi long. So roughly one gallon every two laps... So around 40 laps. (If I did my math correctly 😁)
Can we get a run with the auto black wing? Curious to see how much faster it is. I also wonder what it would be like to have the Plaid with some serious brakes. Those brakes are good, but that car is so fast and so heavy.
I certainly have various criticisms of Tesla and Musk, but that’s kind of impressive, and it will be interesting to see how it improves if/when they release a track mode for the plaid.
Props to the editor for the sound mixing. Using the stereo sound to tell which car the commentary is coming from was clever and effective.
The fact that a rear-drive only, manual Caddy is more than half a sec faster than BMW's sharpest model speaks volumes. Round of applause for the Blackwing!!
agreed, there's a reason most enthusiasts stick to old bimmers, had they not gone down the tech route maybe they wouldn't be embarrassed by beer-chugging "more displacement=better car" Americans. New BMW is a joke they haven't done anything exciting since putting an 8k revving v8 in the m3.
@@lesqueegly764 i don't think BMW will be doing anything special anytime soons considering how many of the engineers at M got poached to Hyundai's N division.
@@lesqueegly764 _beer-chugging "more displacement=better car" Americans_
I think that assessment of the Americans underestimates their ability to engineer feloniously fast cars. Remember - the old E92 M3 got a serious workout trying to stay ahead of the Boss 302 Laguna Seca....which still had a solid rear axle. The C5 Corvette had been a world beater long before ANY of this, and to this day remains in the same league as the original NSX and FD RX-7 when it comes to 90's performance icons that can stop and corner as hard as they accelerate. The Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR....kinda needs no introduction. I got a massive kick out of seeing Jeremy Clarkson have to eat his words when he found out it took the overall production car record at the Ring....and then again when the C7 Stingray ate the beloved 987 Cayman for breakfast around the TG test track.
BMW is indeed quite an embarrassment to itself, these days - they throw all that electronic stuff at their cars hoping to claim every record and fall well short every time, sacrificing the experience in the process. However, I'm not gonna pretend that the Americans only just now came out of left field to mop the floor with them.
Guess I'm a little too patriotic for that.
🦅🦅🦅
@@josephpenn1115 Doesn't matter though, No one who drives a BMW will EVER buy a Kia product
@@josephpenn1115 what do you mean my brother? Details?
Congratulations on the World Record! 👏👏👏👏
Thank you, kind sir. I speak on behalf of Randy, obviously. 🤣
Well I guess that makes every lap record a world record. New world record holders the world over - nice 👍🏻
Isn't it really just a new track record?
The plaid is clearly the fastest car in the world
Yes, Go Randy Go
Wow, the Cadillac CT5-V blackwing chassis proves how good it handling really is. The fact that it was manual and did this well shows how amazing this car is!!! GM nailed it!!
Yes, but it’s not like there was a lot of shifting going on. I think only 1 gear up or down.
Kinda sad that it seems like when GM designers are allowed to do their own thing, they produce wonderful cars. But, in the normal market they're very lackluster.
@@TML34 who cares? Thats why you drive a manual
Pretty good for an old truck chassis but still out classed by the more modern and sophisticated tesla
@@watnw2411 it's not a old truck chassis man. The Tesla was losing speed in the corners but made up time on the straights. The Cadillac CT5-V blackwing chassis is better balanced.
This in the lead footage tells soooooo much more about these cars than just the lap time. WOW! That Blackwing is just enormously impressive. Wow!
Exactly. Once you realize just how much harder the Plaid accelerate (as per the other video, it's like 1/3rd down the drag strip by the time the Plaid is done), then you see that the Caddy was in the lead until the end of the last straight (where the Plaid could unleash its full power). Amazing.
Love that a manual equipped CT5 BW really held its own while being significant more fun to drive.
The 10 speed auto would be better for comparing against the M5 CS tho.
Have to say, I was shocked that a rwd, manual car was able to beat the awd, auto. Let's be honest, 99.9% of the population would be faster in the awd auto car. Only Randy can overcome the effort penalty of rwd and a manual tranny. I don't know who impressed me more, the car or the driver.
@@edwint1780 that shows how well the CT5-V blackwing chassis is. Rwd seem more responsive on curvy tracks where AWD cars tend to understeer a little bit.
It was the star of the show for sure.
@@edwint1780 No, you don't need to be a pro race car driver to overcome that. Source: am an amateur race car driver
This makes other car shows look lazy and dull. Props to the team for making car reviews interesting and quirky again.
Editors need a Christmas bonus along with the camera crew 👏🏽
I'm printing this out and faxing it to my boss.
@@JasonCammisa So 1980s of you!
@Agent7 pretty frivolous with other peoples money mate.
@@chloehennessey6813 Money well spent
Always love videos like this seeing where different cars make their lap time. The Caddy is impressive.
Is has a corvette motor.
@@Chris-yr6gu And the profile of a Honda Accord/Civic!
For car culture productions, it's you guys and Throttle House. Entertaining, informative, and just sumptuous to watch.
I'm going to add Savagegeese on that list. Definitely as my favorite car channels.
Yikes throttle house and savage geese? This is LEAGUES better.
Sure, from a production standpoint it’s leagues better than what the other two previously mentioned channels can put out, but we are talking personal preference and entertainment value.
Throttle House is garbage. This is a league of its own with Savage Geese a close second.
@@osmiumtank i've never understood the love for Savage Geese. If it were a magazine from the early 90s, it would probably be Automobile. I.e., nice to look at when it's at the dentist office, but not anything you'd actually pay money to subscribe.
This is what top gear should do.
True
Nahhh I like cammisa and Randy better than the current top gear crew
So impressive, all 3 from this episode bumped the whole list sedan.
Who'd have thunk 20 years ago 2 American companies would make the 2 fastest sedans in the world? And who in the hell would've known how truly different they would be.
Who'd have thunk 20 years ago that electric cars aren't slow golf carts that can barely keep highway speed while having
That's why the Tesla Plaid didn't do particularly well on the Throttle House track - their track is tighter and doesn't have very long straights
On the other hand, Tesla still has not unlocked the full speed of the Plaid, currently limited to 160ish mph when it's supposed to hit 200mph with about the same acceleration curve we see here.
Also Tesla is still working on their extremely popular and effective "Track mode" package for the Plaid, and we've seen how dramatic that is to the performance of the entry level Model 3 line.
It's just the early innings of a massive EV disruption wave right around the corner, Plaid - which is just a big family sedan - is merely the tip of the iceberg.
@@AllanSustainabilityFan No software update will shave mass off the nearly 5000 lb Plaid, and at the end of the day, you can't cheat physics and make a ballerina out of a hippo. The Plaid will never be a great handling track car because of its porky mass and air suspension.
@@ganymede3141 Never? You should know better. 🙄
@@ganymede3141 hey at this point if you were around long enough you would have seen all the things they said the model S couldn’t do years ago. Trust me I was one of them. And as the years go by one by one they are being checked off. Look it like this, what I saw spacex did with those rockets made me believe anything is possible. So sit back and keep watching. I take it when all the marks are check they will finally fall back on “ the car doesn’t sound like a v8”.
@@ChosenMJ Let me rephrase it more to your liking: The Plaid will, eventually, with proper suspension, carbon ceramic brakes, tires and aero, be a more competent track car than it is today. However, given the state of peak battery technology and the mass associated with such batteries, the Plaid will remain mass-compromised until such time as Mr. Fusion or a similar light, high-energy generating or storage device is invented, which may take decades or longer. Until such time, the Plaid will remain a heavy family sedan with lots of inertia to overcome and a high polar moment of inertia resisting quick rotation and turn-in, therefore compromising its handling, and making it ill-suited as a track car, and will be bested in the handling department by lighter, more nimble vehicles. Better?
That Icons video was the best video I've ever seen of this nature. You guys did a remarkable job and people are missing out if they haven't watched it!
Love the Tesla Plaid but that Cadillac is something else !
This was a brilliant bonus follow up to a fantastic video. Using the engine noise to augment where the contents were coming from was a stroke of genius
Very surprised at how much of that lap the Cadillac was in front.
this is great would love to see a track overlay with more telemetry but these cars were pretty close to each other throughout its that thrust at the last straight that gets the tesla in front. I'll take the caddy
Yep, that CT5-V might end up being the all-time ICE sedan king.
Surprising decision seeing your username is “GM”.
Yeah, a track that requires more braking would have shown the Tesla’s weakness.
@@TML34, okay… but a track with longer straights would have shown the BMW’s and the Cadillac’s straight line acceleration weaknesses. You play the cards you’re dealt with the chips you have.
@@mebeingU2 I agree, but let’s not make the mistake of thinking Tesla has made a “track weapon”. They haven’t.
Thank you for the stereo sound and putting the silent Tesla in the middle
The plaid is truly something special!
I'd love to see what it could do with similar power at 550whp
Probably run a 1:34 or worse
@@camonly849it's still the heaviest car of the bunch without carbon ceramics.
wow can't believe the beemer didn't take the blackwing, that CTS - in a manual - is pretty impressive.
AWD cars sometimes don't like turn at times resulting understeer. Rwd cars seem to be more flexible and more responsive on curvy tracks. Also, the CT5-V blackwing chassis is well built and flexible.
@@yusufgta4341 Curiously, if you watch the Throttle House videos for the two cars, it's the CT5-V that they comment on understeer with. And I believe the M5 CS AWD is heavily RWD biased if there's traction at the rear. Willow Springs is also definitely a fast track. 9 turns in ~2 1/5 miles is not a lot. Regardless both are awesome cars!
@@vafan13 I'm taking Randy's lap over Thomas's commentary, though I love throttlehouse.
@@m1l3s27 and (I'm) James's commentary above all? =D Randy is certainly the better driver, but him being faster in the V on this track doesn't necessarily say which understeers more.
Cadillac brakes are something else
Is it me or is Cammisa carrying this channel with the most views out of everyone?
To be fair his videos are most likely the most expensive to produce so it should be the most impressive content on the channel.
I watch it just bc of him y🙃
Randy ❤ proof of "do what you love "
The Plaid is a BEAST! Can't wait for the track pack option.
And the torque vectoring
Plaid is epic
And the insane thing is, the current Plaid uses what for Tesla is already last-gen technology. Build it with megacasts in front and back, put a 4680 structural battery pack in, and without any changes in form factor you will get a car about 400-500 lbs lighter, with a stiffer chassis, and most likely able to use all the 1200 hp of the 3 motors (right now the battery output is the limit). Both changes already exist, just not in the mass production. Add better brakes, and *then* you will get a real beast.
And that's not even close to the true power of this beast a guy on Reddit was able to hack his tesla and his vehicle is heavily underpowered soo many things disabled, that's why tesla said they will push and update to unlock it and the dude said he doesn't want tesla to void his warranty and not get access to the supercharger incase the hack causes a problem with the station .
@@rrolf71 sounds like the Plaid+, which was cancelled but will probably still come to fruition.
Don’t know how I missed this! Got it now! Need more like these Jc and RP you guys are a dynamic duo!
This was the best car video I've watched in a long time. Love this format. It's outstanding to see Randy still grinding the track. My favorite racer ever.
I'll take the CT5-V manual over any other mass production sedan thank you very much. Being a a longtime V1 owner myself, I can't think of any other sedan being even close to the CTS-V in reliability ease of maintenance all while sporting a 6 spd manual.
It is weird that being a car lover, I found your channel just today🤧.....but I'll catch up from now on ......great job guys
Fantastic vid. I didn't think I needed to watch this after the full episode, but Cammisa, Pobst, and Hagerty proved that wrong.
Love the bonus, I personally skipped over the previous video when it was first published because I didn’t realize it was an Icons episode. Just put Cammisa and Probst as the thumbnail ;)
The Blackwing is a weapon. Love the way it looks as well!
This was a nice surprise
For the inevitable EV vs ICE discussion about to ensue - what car enthusiasts forget is that most people are not car enthusiasts and most ICE cars are not BMW M-cars, Porsches or Ferraris. Look around and you will notice that 99% of ICE cars on the road are dismal - boring crossovers and sluggish sedans with piggish handling. When the drivers of these average ICE cars with terrible handling, buzzy harsh 4-cyclinder engines and horrible transmissions first step into a Tesla Model 3 for example they will be blown away - not just by the effortless smooth and incredible acceleration, but by the handling. Yes, while the handling dynamics in a Tesla may pale to those of a great ICE driver's car, it is actually quite good due to the low center of gravity and decent steering feel compared to the average run of the mill ICE car. I have a 2016 Model S Performance (P90D) and I also have a 997.2 911, 2 M-sport BMWs, and an Audi B8 S4 (all manuals). I would say I like the steering feel of the Model S overall better than the B8 S4 which says more about the S4's steering feel perhaps than the Tesla's. The point being that while car enthusiasts will continue to recognize that driving a 6-speed manual, great sounding, responsive and great handing ICE car is the superior experience, to the average person coming from an average car, a basic EV will be a superior experience blowing away their prior conceptions of performance and (yes) handling. It is a conundrum. And making matters worse is those great ICE drivers cars are getting harder to find as newer performance cars are bigger, heavier, more isolating and less analog than ever, so the pool of actual ICE cars delivering a more viceral experience over than of EVs is shrinking.
That's a very enlightening point you made. It's true that a lot of people misanalyze this and compare EVs to great driver's ICE cars, when the more common case is EVs against boring ICE cars, in which EVs will almost always be more enjoyable to drive than ICE cars.
The way I look at it, quick and popular adoption of EVS means all the terrible ICEs go away and will allow manufacturers the regulatory bandwidth to focus all remaining ICE production on enthusiast options. Once the vast majority of the driving population are in EVS, the environmental burden of ICE emissions from the remaining sports cars should be trivial.
@@vomErsten I'm kind of the in the same boat. I think ICE will become an enthusiast option in the future, similar to how people drive old MX-5s today as they're iconic and fun, even if they're not the fastest.
I do honestly believe that EVs are going to become the go-to track cars if you're looking for lap times though. With a small 'track sized' battery similar to how we might get smaller fuel cells with ICE, I think there could be some serious track monsters.
Of course, not everyone wants the fastest car. Fast isn't always the most fun for some people, the sound and feel can play a big part. Really depends on the kind of driving you like to do. :)
Idk man, I'd love performance EVs, just not a fan of teslas and their policies.
@@vomErsten I actually agree with this hope, but my fear is with such a small demand of fuel from a relatively small amount of gas powered cars, the price of gas will become very expensive. And at some point the cost of oil exploration, extraction and refinement will be prohibitively expensive with regards to the remaining market. This is where possibly synthetic/renewable fuel comes into play. Let's hope we can continue to operate enthusiast gas cars with an affordable fuel market for daily driving. And hope gas powered cars are just not for billionaires who can pay $1000 / gallon. Given electricity generation capacity and infrastructure, the full electric crossover from gas may be decades away. And if we do other smart things like agriculture drawdown and allowing oceans to return to health, we may not need to switch over to all electric cars anyway - maybe 60% of the world wide fleet is enough. On the other other hand, EVs may one day emulate ICE cars right down to specific torque curves, red lines, manual transmissions and sounds.
Big willow's large open-format really plays to the Plaid's HP advantage. I would love to see these 3 compared on a different race track.
Say what you really feel. "I want to see these 3 on a track where I know the Plaid would lose." 🙄🙄
" large open-format " what? willow is extremely twisty lol.
Every car always has strengths and weaknesses.
@@stinger15au Big willow is by far the worse track to truly test a cars handling
@@ChosenMJ sorry, but for me only counts the Nordschleife. A one Minute Hero Lap says nothing about the car. I bet you will drive a few rpunds on willow springs. I want to know how the track time Degeneration is by all three cars.
Because i think the plaid degenerate more, because of the heavy weight, not the batterys. If you drive 3 rounds or more and the Breaks and the tires of the plaid are melting, it is very dangerous.
You want a consisting track car, not a one lap car.
@@bernhard.k *You must not Watch MotorSports racing..??? There are Many Tracks across the world... Get into MotorSports and you will find out there is more than one Track!. That comment is just sad to hear these days...*
Is it just me or can one actually derive better automotive entertainment from car youtubers than from more established players like Top Gear, The Grand Tour and the Tiff Needell-less Fifth Gear?
Also, if a stick equipped and RWD only Blackwing can hold its own against AWD and automatic track beasts like the M5 CS, how much faster will a 10-speed Blackwing be?
Definitely. RUclips channels cater to specific audiences while stuff produced for TV has to be more generalized.
Well, there is a theme there .. All British made shows
It probably could beat the tesla, at that point. Assuming the tesla's time doesn't get better. Though, with Randy behind the wheel I do wonder how much of a handicap a manual really is with him. While the 10-speed may shift faster, it might not necessarily inspire more confidence in the driver.
@@bitfunk24 I think the faster shifts might allow it to get level with the tesla (knocking off a tenth or 2 off acceleration times both on straight and corner over the whole lap) but like you said. It might be less confident to drive as well.
This,……is way cool. Great idea. Freaking Caddilac! Love it
I still can't believe the Caddy beat the Bimmer, without the aid of AWD too!
and with the disadvantage of a stick...not a robo shifter. The Caddy got real close.
@@Arthagnou what's most impressive is how it is ahead a good part of the track. The Plaid just uses its massive acceleration to bring it home on that last straight.
GM is second to nobody at engineering a performant automobile and it has been that way since at least the mid 1980s. It's product planning and quality of manufacture that have been their perennial Achilles's Heel.
Bravo for the CT-5V Blackwing, it's magnificent.
@@vomErsten I hope that Blackwing (and to an extent also the new C8 Z06) don’t suffer from their usual quality control issues. I’d argue GM these days is as bad as Tesla when it comes to quality control.
@@devandrasimanjuntak1646 then I’d argue you haven’t observed any new high end GM build. The quality control is night x& day from yesteryear.
looks like tesla won on straight line speed and ct5-v bw in the twisty bits
Damn its hilarious that the fastest production 4 door in willow springs is a car that isn't even made for track! Plaid is just a different breed of beast...and the fact that it hit it's limiter at the finish is hilarious.
Make more recap videos like this please. I enjoyed this after watching the previous one as well. Thank you
Plaid is just a fantastic road car. Probably the best sedan we'll ever see in that respect. With some track mods (weight reduction bigger brakes) it is a track beast as well.
Yeah, no. Its an appliance.
@@ekscalybur by the look of your posts your are still in the denial stage of grief. Electric cars are fast. Teslas are fun. ICE cars are also great in their own way. It’s not some war for who’s best. Get over it…..
@@floorit4443 agreed I've had the privedge of driving a plaid, and I can't really put the experience in words...but if I came down with dementia tomorrow, I'd probably remember the day I graduated highschool and college, the day I proposed to my gf (now wife), and my experience with the plaid. And I've driven exotics cars, ones with a manual. But nothing is more out of this world than a plaid.
@@ekscalybur so angry... lol
Best car show ever!
what a driver
A very nice follow-up to the 1st video.
Plaid baby!!!
I get that this is how flying laps work, but the mere fact that the Plaid starts the lap 20+ mph faster* is a big advantage. Willow Springs is also a very fast track. I still am surprised the CT5-V bested the M5. I wonder how fresh the Corsas were. Regardless, both are awesome cars.
*BMWs have a tendency to show higher speeds on the dash than the actual. Not sure about GM.
Both the BMW and Cadillac were on brand-new OEM rubber. The Tesla was on... whatever it was given to us with. With fresh rubber, it might have been a touch quicker still.
@@JasonCammisa A reply from the man himself, I am honored! I truly enjoy your work, don't ever change. And thanks, that is good to know. Also glad you all posted this. Only thing missing was Randy's thoughts on the CS vs. V on track (the Plaid's pros/cons are quite obvious).
❤️ to Randy
The added details in the caption work is worth having them turned on. "Randy laughs in the face of death" lmao
The M5 CS with track tires (Pirelli Corsa) slower than Tesla and Caddy with street tires (P4S)? Maybe possible in the US, but not at the Nürburgring… 😏😏
It about the country just the track length.
Cadillac has a well built chassis and rwd. Rwd cars usually feel better around the track due to more responsiveness in the corners. Also, the Cadillac was manual. The Cadillac would have gotten a even better time it they used the 10 speed automatic option.
Pirelli tires are junk.
Thinking the same
Ah, here we go... i found the lap time videos from the Icons video! Well done @randypobst 3 track records broken in one day!
Imagine if the Plaid had carbon ceramics
Imagine if BMW M5 has 1000hp like Plaid instead 400hp...
They were too busy copying the Knightrider yoke wheel to fit acceptable brakes. Yoke wheels get more retweets.
@@vafan13 And higher stock price and more money in Elon's Scrooge McDuck money pit, which is ultimately all he cares about (the whole 'save the world' schpiel is just there to pull the righteousness wool over people's eyes while fleecing them).
@@ganymede3141 Your disdain for Tesla won't change a thing. While you're aging faster because of it Tesla will go forward successfully and you, well who cares. 🤣🤣🤣
@@ChosenMJ Your Elon-juice chugging also won't change a thing and won't keep you youthful either, no matter how many facials you get with it. But don't delude yourself into thinking that Elon is doing any of this for anything other than his own self-interest and wallet. He puts on a nice feel-good story about 'saving humanity', but that's just his vanity and need for attention and admiration talking, attention and admiration that he didn't get from his dad Errol growing up. As for Tesla's success, time will tell, but dozens of other car manufacturers producing their own EVs with much better build quality has already eaten into Tesla's market share, and will continue to do so as more EV models make it to market. And as Tesla's market share decreases, so will its revenues and earnings. Stay tuned for some fun stock adventures in the next few years as the hype-balloon loses hot air and comes back to Earth.
Would love to see a plaid model 3! 😁😁
More Jason and Randy!
Randy Post a living legend!
J & R back on track, SUPERB 🏁
Way to go Randy!
i wonder if the auto ct5 v blackwing will do better than stick
I was rooting for the CT5-V but that last straight let the Tesla catch up. Dig these extras and the bloopers on Insta were hilarious!
BMW M5 CS is a "family car" + a furious racing car + a luxury car + .... OMG I am extremely IMPRESSED by the M5 CS performance vs. the insane fast PLAID and the Cadillac Blackwing .... OMG BMW
For a manual to be that close to to the model S is insanity...I'm sure the automatic would've had it
What camera & Lens you guys film with??
Tesla Plaid doesn’t even have the track software that take advantage of its torque vectoring yet or have any performance brakes like the other two. Imagine when it does
@@saltyfloridaman7163 Big Willow doesn't make a massive straight...
I love this episode. I am very lucky to own 3 of the 4 fastest sedans according to this video. Tesla, obviously IS NOT one of them. Jaguar is the most fun one IMHO.
The caddy ain't nothing to play with the plaid took it in the last straight to finish line that's where that 1000hp 4 wheel drive came in for the win but damn the caddy rear wheel drive stick 👏👏👏 this channel is very good 👍
love you guys. thank you
please test the CT5 VBW in auto form to see if it takes the crown back. very interested in seeing how much time is lost due to the manny (save the manuals tho!!!!!)
Trackmode will easily cut some more time.
I'm pleasantly surprised. I was expecting the Plaid to have this huge lead going into Turn One, and that lead gets eroded during the rest of the lap as the BMW and Caddy handling advantage kicks in. But in the twisty stuff, there ain't actually that much in it.
In the Plaid the electronic nannies really get involved when it comes to technical tracks where the suspension and brakes are challenged. There are vids out there to confirm this. Randy Pobst has plenty of seat time in the Plaid so he knows how to get the most out of it without smoking the tires or brakes.
@@ChosenMJ It would be interesting to see what the Plaid can do, fitted with something like the Mountain Pass Partybox, which disables the traction control. Model 3 owners seem to report quite a decent improvement in laptime (and brake life) when so equipped.
Great video
Blackwing held its own with rwd, 6 speed manual, and an old push rod engine
Great video. I kind of which I had extra coin / garage space for the Blackwing. That's a killer sedan to drive now and a sure fire collectible model in a few short years when ICE cars are no longer available new...
The Tesla Plaid needs a big brake kit. Put that on the car and it will be even quicker around the track. Hopefully, Tesla will make one available as an option. I would love to see a Plaid with an aftermarket BBK go around Big Willow.
The M5 had the least torque by 100 ft-lbs compared to the Caddy and 40 less HP, too. The Tesla Plaid had way more HP and TQ than the BW and M5. The fact the M5 was so close speaks volumes about it, and it can out-accelerate the Blackwing any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Very impressive for the M5!
Awesome!
The "Plaid" power of the Tesla won the day eventually
Randy is awesome!!! ...Jason is ok too I guess :P
i got my money on the plaid
love the video, do more of these.
the results displease me tho. opposite order of what i wanted. well, it is what it is.
This is a very fast circuit with lot of straights so this benefits the Tesla.
It benefits all three. If the Plaid was as bad on tracks as some folks make it out to be it would have finished way behind the other two. Speed isn't everything.
@@ChosenMJ it benefits the 1000 hp car most though. Other track other outcome is my guess
@@TJ-zq3hl Tesla can only deploy full power when the car is dead straight. The circuit here only has one small straight...
The automatic CT5 V BLACKWING would be even faster. Might best the PLAID
Doubt.
Best car videos ever 👌
Is 3 record I’m the same category in a single day a record itself?
Congratulations!!!!
The funny thing is that the Tesla is 5 seconds slower on the Ring than the m5, even with a factory driver, while the m5 was just sport auto time. So it shows just one track doesn’t really show the potential of the m5 and ct5
The ring is a long we’ll rounded track. More time for the Tesla to run out of steam. If you don’t have the cooling or tires etc the ring will expose the flaw.
Remember the plaid isn't made for the track like he said and it still won imagine getting beaten at your own game damn that sad now all yall can do it make claim" if its had 1000hp like the plaid it would have won" if it had ceramic brakes it would have won" meanwhile the plaid cost less than these cars I could also make the same argument for the plaid "if its designed for track it would have definitely also won"
How many laps can the plaid do? Before the battery is too low?
Tesla wouldn't have made another lap on those brakes. So, really its between the BMW and the caddy.
I'll still take the M5.
Are u serious blackening freaking comes with a manual and like the slimmest seats with massage function and that sound for cheaper that t5 and plaid
M5
I think the Caddy is probably more fun though. Either way. 😀
@@TML34 on a track, yes. Everywhere else on public roads, not so much.
Love it!
Love the Tesla (winner) just in case many people didn’t notice
My aunt used to hate to not be able to get up to speed with other fast cars but because of Tesla, she would sometimes challenge me to a race😭👍 Its good that finally old folks found a car for them
I am curious how many laps could you get out of the Tesla versus the Cadillac and the BMW total... Meaning if the gasoline cars had a full tank of gas at the beginning, and the Tesla had a full charge.
The plaid losses 2% charge in Plaid mode for 0-60 and 1% in normal mode so it will take a while before the battery losses power ie 0%
@@oxide9717 If it loses 2% in one 0-60 run, then it seems it would run out of charge pretty quick. Maybe just a few laps
@@joshpinchuk7061 it would easily do 10-12 laps. It probably loses about 6% to 8% per lap at Willow Springs. 10 laps is about an 80% charge loss.
@@TheMadmax0609 any idea how many laps a gas engine could go? 600hp car with 20 gallon tank? At full throttle
@@joshpinchuk7061 at full throttle the car would be getting around 2-3 miles to a gallon.. but it won't be at Full throttle when it's approaching corners and winding turns.. so let's say it's at Full throttle 50% of the time, that would give the car about 4 to 6 miles per gallon. Willow Springs is 2.5 mi long. So roughly one gallon every two laps... So around 40 laps. (If I did my math correctly 😁)
Woohoo awesome man
Great driving! I thought Plaid would have been last. What happens when 'track mode' is released.
Plaid has almost twice the hp of the other two, thats the only reason it was still fast around the track.
Amazing
Awesome further evidence of Tesla S Plaid dominance. But how did Adam Sandler get involved?
Can we get a run with the auto black wing? Curious to see how much faster it is. I also wonder what it would be like to have the Plaid with some serious brakes. Those brakes are good, but that car is so fast and so heavy.
Randy#1
would love to see how these cars perform with 3-4 laps in a row...
Tesla just has bonkers acceleration. It climbed 8mph from 143-151mph on the straight, while the other two climbed 2mph doing a LOWER speed… insane
I certainly have various criticisms of Tesla and Musk, but that’s kind of impressive, and it will be interesting to see how it improves if/when they release a track mode for the plaid.