I have been hunting deer and elk for 50 years in Montana and now Idaho and really enjoy it. Never hunted out of state but would have if I didn't have what i needed here. But from what seen in the game numbers from then until now we are nearing the end of a era. We as hunters need to manage better. There are many good ideas here in the comment section. What I don't understand why any one person needs to kill more than one elk and one deer a year. Just take what you need. Its not a competition, sport or a game but a commodity put here to sustain us. I like the your channel but I don't feel like killing for profit In many states in a year is much of stretch from market hunting which led to the demise of our game populations years ago.
So glad to see y'all talking about the scarcity mindset and the in-fighting for a shrinking pie, as opposed to fighting together for a bigger pie. Tag allocations come down to game populations and annual mortality. Lack of quality habitat, loss of critical winter range, and pressure on game animals from year round non-hunting recreation all contribute to annual mortality and overall game populations. If we can't band together to beat back these non-hunting sources of mortality, our annual tag allocation will continue to decrease. Not to mention the consistently increasing threat from anti-hunting orgs.
Increased use of National Forest in general... But, in almost every case study in EVERY western state, there are LESS and LESS non-resident tags available year over year. The crowding comes from RESIDENTS being able to flock to popular units without restriction, and Limited Entry hunting permits where a person has waited at times for DECADES for the chance to hunt, where they then bring every friend or family member they can to help ensure they have success. Non-residents get the overwhelming blame for overcrowding, while also providing overwhelmingly the bulk of wildlife funding which keeps the cost low for residents. It's an ungrateful situation where the residents say, "Stay out of my state!" while reaping the multiple benefits of the out of state income which makes their hunting opportunities possible.
Habitat encroachment by population growth is probably the biggest factor affecting game availability. Population growth in the states in the west is killing the draw odds
Here where I am in Europe we have that issue, we're a lot more densely populated than the US but it's strictly residents only hunting. I get plenty tags every year automatically (deer&elk, and some small game). It's a non issue for me. Stringent licensing requirements help too.
A big reason a lot of us hunt other States is that our resident States are horrible at game management. So it's worth the extra cost and vacation time to hunt in a State that offers a better hunting experience, potentially.
Human nature is I want “more”. I hunt elk yearly in Colorado , and I pay a nice amount for a bull tag, not to mention the money spent in the local area I stay. Over 3k a year. That said the resident elk tag is less than a hundred dollars. And I have no problem that residents have a cheaper amount to pay. I wouldn’t mind going elk hunting every other year if it meant seeing a few less hunters. But no way Colorado can do without the revenue non residents bring to the table. From a Hunter, and western lover if you restrict my hunting opportunities I will no longer vacation in the western states. My family enjoy the yearly summer trips, if the western folks disrespect the money I bring to your economy Approximately 7 to 8k a year then I’ll gladly stay out of your state totally. Not mad, but just the way I think about the situation. Just my humble opinion from a hard working , outdoor loving guy. 😊
Surprised that the impact of more predators, wolves, grizzlies and lion weren't mentioned. They thin down the herd numbers substantially. Look at Calif for deer or northern Idaho for elk. Very large impact.
Answer. People move for freedom and opportunity……. I currently live in Illinois. Same thing happened here with deer hunting. It’s become a money thing. Thanks for the video. 👍
100% this channel and many others have contributed to the increased popularity of western hunting. Zero doubt on that. Population increase due to COVID and other elements is another contributor. But here we are. The states are going to have to cut back on the pressure on the big game. If they don't it is a lose - lose. Game loses, we lose as hunters. I live in Idaho. Idaho as way more resident hunters than ever before, yet non resident tags are held the same year after year. If the state wants to keep the same number of non resident tags on an ongoing basis, the following must be done (this applies to Montana as well): 1) Fully implement choose your weapon. If you choose to bow hunt elk, there is NO opportunity to rifle hunt them on the same tag. Same for deer, etc. Full choose your weapon is for all hunters resident and non resident alike. 2) If you apply for a controlled hunt, and don't draw, you cannot purchase a tag over the counter. You either choose over the counter type of hunting or your choose controlled tag type of hunting. This would immediately make the number of people applying for controlled tags drop and would also reduce over the counter pressure at the same time. 3) Never allow any hunter, non resident or resident, to have more than one tag for any species, i.e. you cannot get 2 elk tags, 2 deer tags, etc. The increase in population CANNOT be controlled by the state, but the way the population is allowed to hunt can be. If the states want the revenue to remain high from non residents, they are going to have reduce the resident hunter pressure with items 1-3 above, at a minimum. Finally, as long as channels on RUclips, like this one, are making money, they are not going to stop doing what they do - so the social media genie and the money making genie are not going back in the bottle - so the pressure put on western hunting by the money machine is not going down anytime soon.
My guy over here spitting wisdom. I appreciate your measured approach and thoughtful ideas. I have to think more about your proposed solutions. I know your premise is right, we cannot just do more of the same. I've found myself more and more frustrated with hunting media and it's contrubutions to the increased popularity of western hunting, and the negative downstream consequences of that. When I take a step back from my frustration, which is born out of a profound love of hunting, conservation, nature and our shared traditions, I am appreciative of folks like Marcus on Fresh Tracks, Ryan Callaghan on Cal's Week and Review, Mark Kenyon from Wired to Hunt, and a handful of others who model the best leadership in the industry on these issues. I would like to see others follow their example. Thank you to them, and thank you for your thoughtful ideas. Stay with it, my guy
Absolutely agree on these. I'd also add for states with the OTC system or with no point system (Idaho/NM/UT) to make NRs who draw one year wait out the next (residents could draw every year). Give people more turnover and it would improve draw odds on the years they are able to hunt while allowing more people the opportunity. We need to start writing state game commissions proposing these ideas.
@@ViegutJR I like your thought process. I do think we need to really think more about how someone's action impact our profound love of hunting, conservation, etc. While I think Marcus on Fresh Tracks is a nice guy and I am sure sitting having lunch with him would be a great conversation, literally he embodies most of the things that are breaking western hunting apart. As with most all things, when money becomes the driving force, things generally go downhill. When the "hunting lifestyle" and being able to make a living hunting and doing videos burst on to the scene not that many years ago - we saw things implode. Public land hunting is not something that can support thousands upon thousands of people trying to make a living off it. It was never meant to be that. Just more food for thought....
Sounds good and all but that’s not productive to managing game animals in most cases, all you would be doing is removing tools that the states have in there box.
Not going to lie, it is kind of annoying seeing point creep happening across the west and every thirty minutes on a hunting podcast GOHUNT or “best states to hunt elk” advertisements are made. How does doing that lead to a bigger pie?
It’s a double edged sword…. The more people who hunt the more advocacy there is for hunting, management, access, etc. however, there is going to be more demand for a limited resource.
I think advocates are more likely to be created when people have high quality opportunities in their own state. Nonresidents mostly give me the impression they think they’ve done enough by buying their license. That being said, I do comment and try to advocate in other states. Hopefully we can unite all hunters to advocate across state lines. I’d prefer to hear more about that than what state to apply for.
Exactly,RUclips,Facebook,hunting industry are driving the trend.they make money off clicks and likes at no regard to the damage it does to the resource
I live in Iowa and I see resident problems in my own state especially deer hunting. I live in an urban county and I like to fish in rural parts of the state and the one thing I always hear since our counties are on our license plates is Linn county…what are you doing here? It does make me open my eyes to others and I try to be as courteous as possible since you know we are all enjoying the same hobby
Utah made a bigger pie last year and it made a whole bunch of residents very angry. As myself a young man with kids. That were all born in Utah I was for the movement. And for myself a OTC archery hunter my whole life. I finally felt like I had the mountain to myself again it was awesome. That being said we will see what happens to animal numbers in the future. Thank goodness for all our tribal ground that serve as a refuge unless the tribe gives more permits we should be ok. Good talk boys keep it up
Wanted to say Randy and the Fresh Tracks crew are the best hunting influence in the content creation world. Although you may be getting more people into the field I like to think the people you are encouraging to get out, typically practice good hunting ethics and also inevitably end up caring deeply about our public lands. I know Randy is one of the main influences of mine for getting into big game hunting in the west ~7 years ago as I did not grow up in a hunting family. I grew up in the midwest, moved to Colorado for school, and fell in love with the public lands. Now I dont buy meat from the store anymore and harvest all my meat (fish, grouse, duck, venison) from the field. The people you are getting into the field care deeply about our resource, and in turn the people they get in to the field also care deeply as well. Granted this is just my experience. Thanks Fresh Tracks team for all you do 👍
I would be willing to bet there is more people on the tail end of their hunting life than starting out. I spend a lot of time in public OTC units. And most people i see are more closer to Randy's age than Marcus's. With age comes more opportunities to travel and hunt.
Things affecting hunting opportunity: 1) increased demand 2) Less habitat due to development 3) reduced access due to shifts in landowners and culture How to address it: 1) conservation orgs should buy more tracts of land to conserve and open to the public 2) Federal and state intervention to open public land access on landlocked lands 3) More short seasons for archery, muzzy, rifle--and hunters can only hunt one season per species. 4) put more animals on the landscape (particularly opening elk herds in the Midwest/East coast)
Yes, it's become harder to get NR tags in western states. To curb this issue, I've focused more energy on being successful in my home state by continuously adapting to changing game animal behavior/hunting pressure, by working hard, having a positive attitude and just thinking outside the box. Most everyone i talk to in my home state that complains about "no animals", "no opportunities", "too many people", ect. all fail to adapt. They do the same routine year after year, as if they think they're in a static, unchanging environment. Having a negative attitude only exacerbates their failure to find success.
If "hunting influencers" were not killing literally 8, 10, 12 or more western big game animals each year for "content", that would help too. How much big game meat does one family need? It is ridiculous to watch some of these types of channels where "hunters" are killing 4 elk, 3 deer, 2 bears, etc. all in the same year.
Hunting influencers have been around since the late 80s, why is it now that you can watch it on your phone now and not VHS makes it an issue? They pushed and advertised products, harvested plenty
The tag allocations are the tag allocations regardless of who gets the tag, so your argument is mute. It’s not like these “influencers” as you call them are getting tags that otherwise would not have been gotten.
He keeps talking about building a bigger pie. And it's a nice idea. But the pie year after year is hardly growing but the demand is growing and access/opportunity decreasing at rapid rates. What is being done now to create a bigger that hasn't worked for the past 20 years? If not much different, then this is just choosing to feel good instead of expecting a real solution
I'd be interested in the cost comparison from 33 years ago to now and how that correlates to non-resident hunting days in the field. I want more days in the field because the cost is going up and I cannot afford a western hunt every year.
As tribal members on the colville reservation we have a beautiful 2 day bag limit for tribal members and im pretty sure we dont have an overall season limit aslong as we dont waste resources
Videos on drawing western tags is a driver. You guys are having to hunt with wives friends and relatives to get enough tags for content. Problem you were first hand at creating.
I think animal populations in "the west" may plateau out but should grow in other states. I think there is more to be done in spreading out more elk into more states and more regions within states.
@@ET-sp6qm ok not in your state I guess. But my home state of California has so much more room. And they have a herd at point Reyes that are fenced in. And every other year they allow hundreds to die from drought rather then taking down the fence and letting them loose or transplanting them someplace else.
We know the demand is growing opportunities are decreasing. Out of stater will lessen as we pay the brunt of the income to wildlife agencies. Younger kids can’t afford the crazy costs nor do they want to hunt over video games. More share programs where landowners get money for hunting will help. Forcing land owners to let 1 hunter access for every 3 landowner tags. The legislators.need to see the value to the whole state for letting out of at stater get tags. The money we spend in the small towns makes a big difference.
Just watched the show and i had one thought on one of the problems. In most state I believe the animals are technically owned by the state. I would love to see a way for the states to charge the outfitters or the landowners a fee for every animal taken off their property. that money could be used to purchase more land or pay for access to land. Someone said in the episode a draw system could be put in place for access and a fee paid to the landowner. but if something doesn't change it will be like in the story of Robin Hood us normal people won't be able to hunt the king's deer!!!
PS: In Manitoba Canada, nonresidents/foreigners cannot hunt many of our game species in order to limit 'outsider' pressure. In many units even residents cannot hunt certain species unless one is lucky enough to be an Indian or Metis.
IMO on conservation for me personally. I only use lead free bullets (changed 15 years ago). I don’t seek the most genetically superior (largest antlers) animal, it makes no sense to kill the most genetically superior member of the herd. Hunt only to fill your freezer, not to fill your ego. The ego is never satisfied, but your stomach and gratitude may become full.
The lead core bullets are causing serious poisoning of the eagles, hawks, crows, buzzards & condors here in Arizona. Interesting video is ‘The eagle that wouldn’t quit’. By the Enoch rehabilitation center in Utah. There is just no reason to use them now. The Ariz Game & Fish xrayed a deer shot with a 7mm lead core bullet, it had 504 lead fragments in the chest cavity. All that goes into the animals/birds that scavenge what’s left/lost.@@Randy_Savage_ohyeah
I wonder what percentage of NR hunters are hunting a single tag each year, and how many are hunting multiple NR tags each year. I know there's currently no mechanism in place, but can you see a time when states cooperate to limit the total number of NR tags an individual can get in a year?
Colorado at one time was a solid state to hunt deer and elk. Not anymore. Tags are wretchedly hard to come by and bumper to bumper hunters are in the woods. Very expensive. If you're lost in the woods just bugle. Another hunter will be there in a jiff.
If montana got rid of non resident hunting. Do you think the state would feel the impact of money loss..ie nonresident tags cost way more, hotels, food, gas ext. Things nonresident spend money on in those short hunts. Or would that be less impact than the numbers say? Just curious.
@mysterioanonymous3206 I think it would make a huge difference to state revenue. Just wondering if they thought that would ever be an option. Not sure where all the tag money actually ends up, but I like to think it gets put back into the wildlife management some how. I'm from Michigan, and no one really come here for hunting. So I see how a state can't manage its wildlife on residents alone. I'm no expert but I've seen a huge difference in 30+ yrs hunting here
@@ronskelton3611 im from Europe. We managed to eradicate all predators and large game animals here before 1900 in my (small) state. The adoption of a management plan and corresponding laws turned it around, but we're residents only here and it works really well. I get 2 deer and 2 elk (you call it red deer, we call it elk) tags every year (plus a bunch of small game) automatically with my licence. A lot of guys don't fill their elk tags so there's often an "after hunt" (management kills) in November where you can get elk until the total (according to management plan) is reached. So for the ones who want you can get 3, 4, perhaps evwn more elk every year. For a state a few hundred k or even a million or two aren't significant. It's a drop in the bucket.
Increased demand did not become an issue until all these content creators came on the seen. Funny how they never admit they are the root of the problem. Always blaming it on game and fish departments/population increases/outfitters/private properties..etc.etc.etc. Never once have I heard any of these content creators admit fault. Money corrupts even the most righteous.
I'm definitely not saying it helps. But I'd also say the tags are gonna be the tags, not like there will be more tags if these creators aren't getting tags
States need to remember NR hunters foot much of the management bill for that state's management agencies and infuse $$ in the local economy. Need to consider the balancing of that income. If charge too much, will shift NR to other states.
People will always pay. Maybe less of them but their will always be willing players. I just put $2000 NR general elk tag on my credit card last week and I hated doing it but I still did it
Population growth is not slowing fast enough globally to prevent habitat loss so unless there is a large increase in food production productivity, flat wildlife populations are about as good as we can hope for but requires all hunters to contribute something in the off-season (time and/or money). Rescinding the ethanol boondoggle would be a short term help as 40% of planted corn acres in the U.S. goes toward ethanol production, which has a minor impact on fuel prices.
There's always winners and loosers, and farming in particular makes for a very rich banquet for many huntable species, keeping their numbers artificially high. Others not so much. US has enormous hunting pressure since there are virtually no requirements. Where I am in Europe you need a licence which takes about a year to get with loads of coursework and exams. Much fewer people hunt, accordingly. I get several tags every year automatically.
Are you asserting the conversion to industrial farming from native grasslands has not been a net negative for wildlife and hunting opportunity? Do you have research supporting this conclusion? Perhaps food plots intermixed with other natural habitat can provide the bounty you assert but not intensively farmed and harvested lands. The unharvested crops are at best 5% of total production providing little food and zero thermal cover or other components game require. Moreover, intensive use of insecticide and herbicide destroy the foundational elements of the food web. In the U.S. hunting is viewed as a fundamental natural right not a privilege thus an elongated process would be an affront to the right. This does contribute to crowding on public land (not private) but rather than restrict individual freedom all should work to increase the supply of natural habitat and private landowners should allow access to ethical, conscientious hunters.
@@xxHonkxx 😂 yeah it's a fact that numbers are artificially high for many species. They feed on crops during growth (starting with the shoots) and not just after harvests, and a significant part is also livestock farmers keeping predator numbers low. I did very extensive licensing and this is an established fact - that you wouldn't know that is more an indicator for the necessity of such programs, if anything. It is what it is. If you give free access this is what you'll get. Where I am it's residents only. But we have full access with no restrictions for hunting on private land where I am - so give some get some, I can hunt the entire state incl. everyone's farm or land. I get two deer and two elk tags every year, automatically, and then some. What do you get? Whether there is much habitat that could be restored to increase numbers is very questionable.
At best the dynamic presented could support higher numbers of specific species, but even if I stipulated that my argument centers around higher, sustainable populations of all wildlife. Achieving this requires ecosystems that most closely match pre-colonial America. Such an environment would allow hunters to have the most authentic relationship with the game they pursue, and I would argue the most satisfying experience. Lot line to lot line row crops are a direct affront to this. Look at bobwhite quail populations, waterfowl, prairie chickens, sage grouse, turkeys, mule deer, etc, or even global measures of biodiversity- some have plummeted but all are on a downward trend, supporting my view that industrial farming is a net negative. Whitetail deer is the exception but I would argue that growth in that population is not worth the decline in the others. If the ethanol blending mandate in gasoline were unwound crop prices would decline and the market would reestablish equilibrium by pulling acres out of production. 40% of planted corn acres are for ethanol, representing nearly 40 million acres, larger than some U.S. states. It’s not a forgone conclusion that the acres would directly go into native habitat but the odds are good that substantial portion would. @@mysterioanonymous3206
@@xxHonkxx i would like wide expanses of untouched, raw and original wilderness, trust me... But I just don't see it happening. US is projected to get another 60 or so million inhabitants...
As the use of public land increases and our species continues to grow it will require more land. Taking land from the wildlife. So unless you can convince people to live in high rises or complexes where many humans live in a small area, then habitat loss will inevitably lead to loss of all species numbers. Unfortunately more of us equals less of them. Think about how many people will live in the west 100 years from now? How much wild land will be left. There’s always hope and I hope I’m wrong.
I sent Randy an email 6 weeks ago asking him to put me in touch with someone interested in pursuing a case for public access to inaccessible BLM land. I never heard from him. I assume he is only concerned with selling videos.
Why not talk about non-hunting sports that harm wildlife? I have seen effects of off road motor sports effect game populations, i have seen tourism hurt habit areas, and even bicycle riders effect areas.
I agree with a number of the commentators i.e. no family needs more than one Elk or a couple deer per year however, the hunting regulations determine where people (resident, non-resident or foreign) are able to legitimately hunt through purchase of licenses and tag draw. It is up to State or Provincial legislators to limit 'outsider' access if a majority of residents feel that they are somehow being unfairly treated. Don't blame Randy, or Steve or Brian for exercising their right to hunt and film themselves doing it. If you don't like it call your write to your legislature. BTW all, humans are part of the ecosystem whether we want to admit it or not. Evolution being the final deciding factor what species will survive. There are numerous scholarly articles regarding Ecological Evolution if anyone is interested. Sincerely, William
What are the best ways we, with limited financial means, can contribute to creating greater abundance as it relates to both critter numbers and improved collective access to chase said critters with rapidly growing demand for a limited resource?
You can thank the Federal Gov and Liberal policies for the western states population boom. The draconian policies put in place during COVID created the Tele-Work boom which in turn allowed a lot of people to live wherever they wanted and still keep their high paying city jobs. Liberal policies which create oppressively high taxes, lawlessness through defunding police, legalization of drugs, etc… result in the sane residents of those liberal states fleeing. Combine these two factors and you get an influx of people moving the western states. And now you have another factor starting to play out as Biden’s open border floods the country with illegals. He has already allowed in more people than the population of several states combined. This alone will start to push more citizens to move out west.
You talk about increased population in the west - how about - percentage of increase now verses 30 years ago. The total lower 48 population has increased over the last 30 years, because of new born and immigration. So again has the percentages changed greatly?
Love you guys! Get rid of motorized hunting! Be men out there. Hike in on foot. Take a pack of horses. Motorized anything stresses wildlife more than anything. Those majestic animals have enough stress navigating our highway road systems. If you want “more wildlife on the hills”. Ban all motorized access to their habitat. This should be your number one talking point. Western residents that hunt like we do have had enough of nonresidents flying through perfectly good habitat pushing wildlife deeper and deeper into the resident private safety zones. Does anyone notice this motorized trend killing our wildlife habitat? Randy, nobody works as hard as you to preserve our future. Motorized hunting is at the top of resident complaints of non resident hunters afield in colorado. My son lives in CO and the resident hunters have had it with the traffic afield. Just want to try and help preserve our future as a hunter.
Damn right you can be shut out. The game on those Federal lands DOES NOT belong to the entire US population .It is the community property of STATE RESIDENTS. That is according to LONG standing Supreme Court precident. As an out of state hunter you are merely a GUEST .
You can go on any piece of federal land year round, you just can't hunt the wildlife on it which is managed by the states. You need to be given permission to hunt (drawing a tag)
It is interesting that you readily accept that you are a part of the problem (which you & other social media hunter influencers are) and yet you continue to go on and be part of that problem! If you know you are part of the problem, then why don't you do something about your part?
The real issue is the new piece that pushed it is technology. All forms of technology, mapping, podcast, RUclips, bows, sights, clothing, camping gear. All huge leaps in the last 10 years. Now throw in technology allowing remote workers, ability for guys like me to own my own business and have more freedom than ever before due to technology. Hunters across the board are far more effective killers than ever before. So, I believe these factors were not weighed by DNR and State resource management to the outcome of massive reduction in all large game animals across the board. It’s a completely new game from every side. The train needs to be slowed drastically, meaning less tags sold for everyone including land owner tags. At this point I’m 46 with a 9 year old son. He needs to have lots of chances to chase animals. That’s starts now in restriction of tags across the board to allow all herds and pressure to settle out. I would rather hunt elk as a nonresident every three years and see lots of animals then see 50 dudes on the same face as me hunting the last two bull elk that are 3.5 years old. I live in Oklahoma, I wouldn’t be mad at the nonresident hunters, I would be pissed at my state for selling out our resource. My state does this with our oil, we screw the people of the state with tax breaks for the oil in our ground, how stupid ass is that? No different with Elk, I would happily pay 2,500 for my tag to help conservation l, see herds return to power and limit hunting pressure across the board. Hopefully we as a collective group figure it out before it’s only for the elite. Shoot straight boys!
Also, everyone running all over the place in their side by side stressing out game and destroying their habitat is another contributing factor
Randy’s a very good resource on the subject he is part of the reason for the surge
I have been hunting deer and elk for 50 years in Montana and now Idaho and really enjoy it. Never hunted out of state but would have if I didn't have what i needed here. But from what seen in the game numbers from then until now we are nearing the end of a era. We as hunters need to manage better. There are many good ideas here in the comment section. What I don't understand why any one person needs to kill more than one elk and one deer a year. Just take what you need. Its not a competition, sport or a game but a commodity put here to sustain us. I like the your channel but I don't feel like killing for profit In many states in a year is much of stretch from market hunting which led to the demise of our game populations years ago.
So glad to see y'all talking about the scarcity mindset and the in-fighting for a shrinking pie, as opposed to fighting together for a bigger pie. Tag allocations come down to game populations and annual mortality. Lack of quality habitat, loss of critical winter range, and pressure on game animals from year round non-hunting recreation all contribute to annual mortality and overall game populations. If we can't band together to beat back these non-hunting sources of mortality, our annual tag allocation will continue to decrease. Not to mention the consistently increasing threat from anti-hunting orgs.
Increased use of National Forest in general... But, in almost every case study in EVERY western state, there are LESS and LESS non-resident tags available year over year. The crowding comes from RESIDENTS being able to flock to popular units without restriction, and Limited Entry hunting permits where a person has waited at times for DECADES for the chance to hunt, where they then bring every friend or family member they can to help ensure they have success. Non-residents get the overwhelming blame for overcrowding, while also providing overwhelmingly the bulk of wildlife funding which keeps the cost low for residents. It's an ungrateful situation where the residents say, "Stay out of my state!" while reaping the multiple benefits of the out of state income which makes their hunting opportunities possible.
Habitat encroachment by population growth is probably the biggest factor affecting game availability. Population growth in the states in the west is killing the draw odds
Here where I am in Europe we have that issue, we're a lot more densely populated than the US but it's strictly residents only hunting. I get plenty tags every year automatically (deer&elk, and some small game). It's a non issue for me. Stringent licensing requirements help too.
A big reason a lot of us hunt other States is that our resident States are horrible at game management. So it's worth the extra cost and vacation time to hunt in a State that offers a better hunting experience, potentially.
Human nature is I want “more”. I hunt elk yearly in Colorado , and I pay a nice amount for a bull tag, not to mention the money spent in the local area I stay. Over 3k a year. That said the resident elk tag is less than a hundred dollars. And I have no problem that residents have a cheaper amount to pay. I wouldn’t mind going elk hunting every other year if it meant seeing a few less hunters. But no way Colorado can do without the revenue non residents bring to the table. From a Hunter, and western lover if you restrict my hunting opportunities I will no longer vacation in the western states. My family enjoy the yearly summer trips, if the western folks disrespect the money I bring to your economy Approximately 7 to 8k a year then I’ll gladly stay out of your state totally. Not mad, but just the way I think about the situation. Just my humble opinion from a hard working , outdoor loving guy. 😊
Surprised that the impact of more predators, wolves, grizzlies and lion weren't mentioned. They thin down the herd numbers substantially. Look at Calif for deer or northern Idaho for elk. Very large impact.
Answer. People move for freedom and opportunity……. I currently live in Illinois. Same thing happened here with deer hunting. It’s become a money thing. Thanks for the video. 👍
100% this channel and many others have contributed to the increased popularity of western hunting. Zero doubt on that. Population increase due to COVID and other elements is another contributor. But here we are. The states are going to have to cut back on the pressure on the big game. If they don't it is a lose - lose. Game loses, we lose as hunters. I live in Idaho. Idaho as way more resident hunters than ever before, yet non resident tags are held the same year after year. If the state wants to keep the same number of non resident tags on an ongoing basis, the following must be done (this applies to Montana as well):
1) Fully implement choose your weapon. If you choose to bow hunt elk, there is NO opportunity to rifle hunt them on the same tag. Same for deer, etc. Full choose your weapon is for all hunters resident and non resident alike.
2) If you apply for a controlled hunt, and don't draw, you cannot purchase a tag over the counter. You either choose over the counter type of hunting or your choose controlled tag type of hunting. This would immediately make the number of people applying for controlled tags drop and would also reduce over the counter pressure at the same time.
3) Never allow any hunter, non resident or resident, to have more than one tag for any species, i.e. you cannot get 2 elk tags, 2 deer tags, etc.
The increase in population CANNOT be controlled by the state, but the way the population is allowed to hunt can be. If the states want the revenue to remain high from non residents, they are going to have reduce the resident hunter pressure with items 1-3 above, at a minimum. Finally, as long as channels on RUclips, like this one, are making money, they are not going to stop doing what they do - so the social media genie and the money making genie are not going back in the bottle - so the pressure put on western hunting by the money machine is not going down anytime soon.
My guy over here spitting wisdom. I appreciate your measured approach and thoughtful ideas. I have to think more about your proposed solutions. I know your premise is right, we cannot just do more of the same. I've found myself more and more frustrated with hunting media and it's contrubutions to the increased popularity of western hunting, and the negative downstream consequences of that. When I take a step back from my frustration, which is born out of a profound love of hunting, conservation, nature and our shared traditions, I am appreciative of folks like Marcus on Fresh Tracks, Ryan Callaghan on Cal's Week and Review, Mark Kenyon from Wired to Hunt, and a handful of others who model the best leadership in the industry on these issues. I would like to see others follow their example. Thank you to them, and thank you for your thoughtful ideas. Stay with it, my guy
Absolutely agree on these. I'd also add for states with the OTC system or with no point system (Idaho/NM/UT) to make NRs who draw one year wait out the next (residents could draw every year). Give people more turnover and it would improve draw odds on the years they are able to hunt while allowing more people the opportunity. We need to start writing state game commissions proposing these ideas.
Thoughtful and spot on
@@ViegutJR I like your thought process. I do think we need to really think more about how someone's action impact our profound love of hunting, conservation, etc. While I think Marcus on Fresh Tracks is a nice guy and I am sure sitting having lunch with him would be a great conversation, literally he embodies most of the things that are breaking western hunting apart. As with most all things, when money becomes the driving force, things generally go downhill. When the "hunting lifestyle" and being able to make a living hunting and doing videos burst on to the scene not that many years ago - we saw things implode. Public land hunting is not something that can support thousands upon thousands of people trying to make a living off it. It was never meant to be that. Just more food for thought....
Sounds good and all but that’s not productive to managing game animals in most cases, all you would be doing is removing tools that the states have in there box.
Not going to lie, it is kind of annoying seeing point creep happening across the west and every thirty minutes on a hunting podcast GOHUNT or “best states to hunt elk” advertisements are made. How does doing that lead to a bigger pie?
It leads to a bigger profit pie for Go Hunt
It’s a double edged sword…. The more people who hunt the more advocacy there is for hunting, management, access, etc. however, there is going to be more demand for a limited resource.
I think advocates are more likely to be created when people have high quality opportunities in their own state. Nonresidents mostly give me the impression they think they’ve done enough by buying their license. That being said, I do comment and try to advocate in other states. Hopefully we can unite all hunters to advocate across state lines. I’d prefer to hear more about that than what state to apply for.
Exactly,RUclips,Facebook,hunting industry are driving the trend.they make money off clicks and likes at no regard to the damage it does to the resource
I live in Iowa and I see resident problems in my own state especially deer hunting. I live in an urban county and I like to fish in rural parts of the state and the one thing I always hear since our counties are on our license plates is Linn county…what are you doing here? It does make me open my eyes to others and I try to be as courteous as possible since you know we are all enjoying the same hobby
Utah made a bigger pie last year and it made a whole bunch of residents very angry. As myself a young man with kids. That were all born in Utah I was for the movement. And for myself a OTC archery hunter my whole life. I finally felt like I had the mountain to myself again it was awesome. That being said we will see what happens to animal numbers in the future. Thank goodness for all our tribal ground that serve as a refuge unless the tribe gives more permits we should be ok. Good talk boys keep it up
I wish there was a fund we could all contribute to, like access yes, to purchase private land and open it up to public.
RMEF does this right?
I don’t think so. They put in water wells and improve habitat.
Wanted to say Randy and the Fresh Tracks crew are the best hunting influence in the content creation world. Although you may be getting more people into the field I like to think the people you are encouraging to get out, typically practice good hunting ethics and also inevitably end up caring deeply about our public lands. I know Randy is one of the main influences of mine for getting into big game hunting in the west ~7 years ago as I did not grow up in a hunting family. I grew up in the midwest, moved to Colorado for school, and fell in love with the public lands. Now I dont buy meat from the store anymore and harvest all my meat (fish, grouse, duck, venison) from the field.
The people you are getting into the field care deeply about our resource, and in turn the people they get in to the field also care deeply as well. Granted this is just my experience.
Thanks Fresh Tracks team for all you do
👍
I would be willing to bet there is more people on the tail end of their hunting life than starting out. I spend a lot of time in public OTC units. And most people i see are more closer to Randy's age than Marcus's. With age comes more opportunities to travel and hunt.
Things affecting hunting opportunity:
1) increased demand
2) Less habitat due to development
3) reduced access due to shifts in landowners and culture
How to address it:
1) conservation orgs should buy more tracts of land to conserve and open to the public
2) Federal and state intervention to open public land access on landlocked lands
3) More short seasons for archery, muzzy, rifle--and hunters can only hunt one season per species.
4) put more animals on the landscape (particularly opening elk herds in the Midwest/East coast)
They could do #3 now if that’s how they deemed best to manage the animals. But why limit the states management tools?
Yes, it's become harder to get NR tags in western states. To curb this issue, I've focused more energy on being successful in my home state by continuously adapting to changing game animal behavior/hunting pressure, by working hard, having a positive attitude and just thinking outside the box.
Most everyone i talk to in my home state that complains about "no animals", "no opportunities", "too many people", ect. all fail to adapt. They do the same routine year after year, as if they think they're in a static, unchanging environment. Having a negative attitude only exacerbates their failure to find success.
If "hunting influencers" were not killing literally 8, 10, 12 or more western big game animals each year for "content", that would help too. How much big game meat does one family need? It is ridiculous to watch some of these types of channels where "hunters" are killing 4 elk, 3 deer, 2 bears, etc. all in the same year.
You're gatekeeping a state. Fucking cope. Would it be any different if they didn't have a camera?😂
We did it to ourselves, all it takes is not to watch these shows n they go away👍
Hunting influencers have been around since the late 80s, why is it now that you can watch it on your phone now and not VHS makes it an issue? They pushed and advertised products, harvested plenty
The tag allocations are the tag allocations regardless of who gets the tag, so your argument is mute. It’s not like these “influencers” as you call them are getting tags that otherwise would not have been gotten.
@@afidbhawkins3173 Agreed. We can for sure have an impact by knowing what and who we are supporting.
Population is a big prob. If hunters don't get involved w/ the problems and use their voice. Loss of habit is probably the most impactful.
He keeps talking about building a bigger pie. And it's a nice idea. But the pie year after year is hardly growing but the demand is growing and access/opportunity decreasing at rapid rates.
What is being done now to create a bigger that hasn't worked for the past 20 years? If not much different, then this is just choosing to feel good instead of expecting a real solution
I'd be interested in the cost comparison from 33 years ago to now and how that correlates to non-resident hunting days in the field. I want more days in the field because the cost is going up and I cannot afford a western hunt every year.
As tribal members on the colville reservation we have a beautiful 2 day bag limit for tribal members and im pretty sure we dont have an overall season limit aslong as we dont waste resources
Videos on drawing western tags is a driver. You guys are having to hunt with wives friends and relatives to get enough tags for content. Problem you were first hand at creating.
Snake eating itself lol
I think animal populations in "the west" may plateau out but should grow in other states. I think there is more to be done in spreading out more elk into more states and more regions within states.
Lol no
CWD makes it incredibly challenging for RMEF to relocate elk now to other states. Soooooo much red tape now
@@ET-sp6qm ok not in your state I guess. But my home state of California has so much more room. And they have a herd at point Reyes that are fenced in. And every other year they allow hundreds to die from drought rather then taking down the fence and letting them loose or transplanting them someplace else.
This seems to be a very popular topic as of late!
The wolf & mountain lions will be the definitive factor for wildlife numbers in the entire west..
And weather
Outlaw all outfitters
We know the demand is growing opportunities are decreasing. Out of stater will lessen as we pay the brunt of the income to wildlife agencies. Younger kids can’t afford the crazy costs nor do they want to hunt over video games. More share programs where landowners get money for hunting will help. Forcing land owners to let 1 hunter access for every 3 landowner tags. The legislators.need to see the value to the whole state for letting out of at stater get tags. The money we spend in the small towns makes a big difference.
Just watched the show and i had one thought on one of the problems. In most state I believe the animals are technically owned by the state. I would love to see a way for the states to charge the outfitters or the landowners a fee for every animal taken off their property. that money could be used to purchase more land or pay for access to land. Someone said in the episode a draw system could be put in place for access and a fee paid to the landowner. but if something doesn't change it will be like in the story of Robin Hood us normal people won't be able to hunt the king's deer!!!
Pack out with backcountry skis? Living the dream
PS: In Manitoba Canada, nonresidents/foreigners cannot hunt many of our game species in order to limit 'outsider' pressure. In many units even residents cannot hunt certain species unless one is lucky enough to be an Indian or Metis.
IMO on conservation for me personally. I only use lead free bullets (changed 15 years ago). I don’t seek the most genetically superior (largest antlers) animal, it makes no sense to kill the most genetically superior member of the herd. Hunt only to fill your freezer, not to fill your ego. The ego is never satisfied, but your stomach and gratitude may become full.
I agree with all of your points except that of lead free bullets… I don’t get your point here?
The lead core bullets are causing serious poisoning of the eagles, hawks, crows, buzzards & condors here in Arizona. Interesting video is ‘The eagle that wouldn’t quit’. By the Enoch rehabilitation center in Utah. There is just no reason to use them now. The Ariz Game & Fish xrayed a deer shot with a 7mm lead core bullet, it had 504 lead fragments in the chest cavity. All that goes into the animals/birds that scavenge what’s left/lost.@@Randy_Savage_ohyeah
I wonder what percentage of NR hunters are hunting a single tag each year, and how many are hunting multiple NR tags each year. I know there's currently no mechanism in place, but can you see a time when states cooperate to limit the total number of NR tags an individual can get in a year?
That would be a good feasible idea
Colorado at one time was a solid state to hunt deer and elk. Not anymore. Tags are wretchedly hard to come by and bumper to bumper hunters are in the woods. Very expensive. If you're lost in the woods just bugle. Another hunter will be there in a jiff.
I’m a CO res and definitely encounter more non-res hunters than residents.
Funny, there is currently a HT thread arguing the same thing in general...
If montana got rid of non resident hunting. Do you think the state would feel the impact of money loss..ie nonresident tags cost way more, hotels, food, gas ext. Things nonresident spend money on in those short hunts. Or would that be less impact than the numbers say? Just curious.
Does it matter? You can't build a state or town on the proceeds of "hunting tourism" sector. That isn't a sustainable solution anyways.
@mysterioanonymous3206
I think it would make a huge difference to state revenue. Just wondering if they thought that would ever be an option. Not sure where all the tag money actually ends up, but I like to think it gets put back into the wildlife management some how. I'm from Michigan, and no one really come here for hunting. So I see how a state can't manage its wildlife on residents alone. I'm no expert but I've seen a huge difference in 30+ yrs hunting here
@@ronskelton3611 im from Europe. We managed to eradicate all predators and large game animals here before 1900 in my (small) state. The adoption of a management plan and corresponding laws turned it around, but we're residents only here and it works really well. I get 2 deer and 2 elk (you call it red deer, we call it elk) tags every year (plus a bunch of small game) automatically with my licence. A lot of guys don't fill their elk tags so there's often an "after hunt" (management kills) in November where you can get elk until the total (according to management plan) is reached. So for the ones who want you can get 3, 4, perhaps evwn more elk every year. For a state a few hundred k or even a million or two aren't significant. It's a drop in the bucket.
Increased demand did not become an issue until all these content creators came on the seen. Funny how they never admit they are the root of the problem. Always blaming it on game and fish departments/population increases/outfitters/private properties..etc.etc.etc. Never once have I heard any of these content creators admit fault. Money corrupts even the most righteous.
I'm definitely not saying it helps. But I'd also say the tags are gonna be the tags, not like there will be more tags if these creators aren't getting tags
States need to remember NR hunters foot much of the management bill for that state's management agencies and infuse $$ in the local economy. Need to consider the balancing of that income. If charge too much, will shift NR to other states.
People will always pay. Maybe less of them but their will always be willing players. I just put $2000 NR general elk tag on my credit card last week and I hated doing it but I still did it
Residents will realize all the money comes from outta state when people stop paying.
Population growth is not slowing fast enough globally to prevent habitat loss so unless there is a large increase in food production productivity, flat wildlife populations are about as good as we can hope for but requires all hunters to contribute something in the off-season (time and/or money). Rescinding the ethanol boondoggle would be a short term help as 40% of planted corn acres in the U.S. goes toward ethanol production, which has a minor impact on fuel prices.
There's always winners and loosers, and farming in particular makes for a very rich banquet for many huntable species, keeping their numbers artificially high. Others not so much.
US has enormous hunting pressure since there are virtually no requirements. Where I am in Europe you need a licence which takes about a year to get with loads of coursework and exams. Much fewer people hunt, accordingly. I get several tags every year automatically.
Are you asserting the conversion to industrial farming from native grasslands has not been a net negative for wildlife and hunting opportunity? Do you have research supporting this conclusion? Perhaps food plots intermixed with other natural habitat can provide the bounty you assert but not intensively farmed and harvested lands. The unharvested crops are at best 5% of total production providing little food and zero thermal cover or other components game require. Moreover, intensive use of insecticide and herbicide destroy the foundational elements of the food web. In the U.S. hunting is viewed as a fundamental natural right not a privilege thus an elongated process would be an affront to the right. This does contribute to crowding on public land (not private) but rather than restrict individual freedom all should work to increase the supply of natural habitat and private landowners should allow access to ethical, conscientious hunters.
@@xxHonkxx 😂 yeah it's a fact that numbers are artificially high for many species. They feed on crops during growth (starting with the shoots) and not just after harvests, and a significant part is also livestock farmers keeping predator numbers low. I did very extensive licensing and this is an established fact - that you wouldn't know that is more an indicator for the necessity of such programs, if anything.
It is what it is. If you give free access this is what you'll get. Where I am it's residents only. But we have full access with no restrictions for hunting on private land where I am - so give some get some, I can hunt the entire state incl. everyone's farm or land. I get two deer and two elk tags every year, automatically, and then some. What do you get?
Whether there is much habitat that could be restored to increase numbers is very questionable.
At best the dynamic presented could support higher numbers of specific species, but even if I stipulated that my argument centers around higher, sustainable populations of all wildlife. Achieving this requires ecosystems that most closely match pre-colonial America. Such an environment would allow hunters to have the most authentic relationship with the game they pursue, and I would argue the most satisfying experience. Lot line to lot line row crops are a direct affront to this. Look at bobwhite quail populations, waterfowl, prairie chickens, sage grouse, turkeys, mule deer, etc, or even global measures of biodiversity- some have plummeted but all are on a downward trend, supporting my view that industrial farming is a net negative. Whitetail deer is the exception but I would argue that growth in that population is not worth the decline in the others. If the ethanol blending mandate in gasoline were unwound crop prices would decline and the market would reestablish equilibrium by pulling acres out of production. 40% of planted corn acres are for ethanol, representing nearly 40 million acres, larger than some U.S. states. It’s not a forgone conclusion that the acres would directly go into native habitat but the odds are good that substantial portion would. @@mysterioanonymous3206
@@xxHonkxx i would like wide expanses of untouched, raw and original wilderness, trust me...
But I just don't see it happening. US is projected to get another 60 or so million inhabitants...
As the use of public land increases and our species continues to grow it will require more land. Taking land from the wildlife. So unless you can convince people to live in high rises or complexes where many humans live in a small area, then habitat loss will inevitably lead to loss of all species numbers. Unfortunately more of us equals less of them. Think about how many people will live in the west 100 years from now? How much wild land will be left. There’s always hope and I hope I’m wrong.
I sent Randy an email 6 weeks ago asking him to put me in touch with someone interested in pursuing a case for public access to inaccessible BLM land. I never heard from him. I assume he is only concerned with selling videos.
Why not talk about non-hunting sports that harm wildlife? I have seen effects of off road motor sports effect game populations, i have seen tourism hurt habit areas, and even bicycle riders effect areas.
I agree with a number of the commentators i.e. no family needs more than one Elk or a couple deer per year however, the hunting regulations determine where people (resident, non-resident or foreign) are able to legitimately hunt through purchase of licenses and tag draw. It is up to State or Provincial legislators to limit 'outsider' access if a majority of residents feel that they are somehow being unfairly treated. Don't blame Randy, or Steve or Brian for exercising their right to hunt and film themselves doing it. If you don't like it call your write to your legislature.
BTW all, humans are part of the ecosystem whether we want to admit it or not. Evolution being the final deciding factor what species will survive. There are numerous scholarly articles regarding Ecological Evolution if anyone is interested.
Sincerely,
William
Hmmm... Marcus was born the same time Randy moved there. Coincidence??? 😁
😂😂
Lololol
Let's just give ol Joe another 4 years and we will have less people on the landscape.
What are the best ways we, with limited financial means, can contribute to creating greater abundance as it relates to both critter numbers and improved collective access to chase said critters with rapidly growing demand for a limited resource?
Thanx
Let’s add more wolves 🐺 to the landscape
You get a wolf and you get a wolf and you get a wolf everyone gets a wolf!!😂
Unlimited wolf hunting opportunities out west!
You can thank the Federal Gov and Liberal policies for the western states population boom. The draconian policies put in place during COVID created the Tele-Work boom which in turn allowed a lot of people to live wherever they wanted and still keep their high paying city jobs. Liberal policies which create oppressively high taxes, lawlessness through defunding police, legalization of drugs, etc… result in the sane residents of those liberal states fleeing. Combine these two factors and you get an influx of people moving the western states. And now you have another factor starting to play out as Biden’s open border floods the country with illegals. He has already allowed in more people than the population of several states combined. This alone will start to push more citizens to move out west.
Don't forget the predators that are being released! North Western Montana's deer population is not what it was 24 yers ago.
In 10-15 years…hunting in the big game States will be draw only. Watch.
I say sooner than that.
Thats what all these htg videos did, plus jack the cost of htg licenses too!! Hand in there Morris, there are a few animals left
With the amount of money non residents give to the residents fish and game, complaining about them is really uncalled for.
Tragedy of the commons in full effect.
You talk about increased population in the west - how about - percentage of increase now verses 30 years ago. The total lower 48 population has increased over the last 30 years, because of new born and immigration. So again has the percentages changed greatly?
So, what gets you to a bigger pie faster, promoting conservation and public access, or promoting a NIMBY mentality.
Whatever you choose to do, don’t apply in South Dakota. There’s nothing here 😊
Love you guys! Get rid of motorized hunting! Be men out there. Hike in on foot. Take a pack of horses. Motorized anything stresses wildlife more than anything. Those majestic animals have enough stress navigating our highway road systems. If you want “more wildlife on the hills”. Ban all motorized access to their habitat. This should be your number one talking point. Western residents that hunt like we do have had enough of nonresidents flying through perfectly good habitat pushing wildlife deeper and deeper into the resident private safety zones. Does anyone notice this motorized trend killing our wildlife habitat? Randy, nobody works as hard as you to preserve our future. Motorized hunting is at the top of resident complaints of non resident hunters afield in colorado. My son lives in CO and the resident hunters have had it with the traffic afield. Just want to try and help preserve our future as a hunter.
Agreed
federal land owned by every one in the usa and i as a nonresident hunter can be shut out 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Damn right you can be shut out. The game on those Federal lands DOES NOT belong to the entire US population .It is the community property of STATE RESIDENTS. That is according to LONG standing Supreme Court precident. As an out of state hunter you are merely a GUEST .
You can go on any piece of federal land year round, you just can't hunt the wildlife on it which is managed by the states. You need to be given permission to hunt (drawing a tag)
It is interesting that you readily accept that you are a part of the problem (which you & other social media hunter influencers are) and yet you continue to go on and be part of that problem! If you know you are part of the problem, then why don't you do something about your part?
Yea but it's not that easy
The real issue is the new piece that pushed it is technology. All forms of technology, mapping, podcast, RUclips, bows, sights, clothing, camping gear. All huge leaps in the last 10 years. Now throw in technology allowing remote workers, ability for guys like me to own my own business and have more freedom than ever before due to technology. Hunters across the board are far more effective killers than ever before. So, I believe these factors were not weighed by DNR and State resource management to the outcome of massive reduction in all large game animals across the board. It’s a completely new game from every side. The train needs to be slowed drastically, meaning less tags sold for everyone including land owner tags. At this point I’m 46 with a 9 year old son. He needs to have lots of chances to chase animals. That’s starts now in restriction of tags across the board to allow all herds and pressure to settle out. I would rather hunt elk as a nonresident every three years and see lots of animals then see 50 dudes on the same face as me hunting the last two bull elk that are 3.5 years old. I live in Oklahoma, I wouldn’t be mad at the nonresident hunters, I would be pissed at my state for selling out our resource. My state does this with our oil, we screw the people of the state with tax breaks for the oil in our ground, how stupid ass is that? No different with Elk, I would happily pay 2,500 for my tag to help conservation l, see herds return to power and limit hunting pressure across the board. Hopefully we as a collective group figure it out before it’s only for the elite. Shoot straight boys!