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Will the Nikon D850 be my Next Camera?
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- Опубликовано: 16 дек 2018
- In this video I discuss my time spent with the Nikon D850 and how it compares to my Canon 5DMKIV for Landscape Photography. I show and compare test images give my opinion on pixel peeping and DXO marks. This was in no way a serious lab test comparison, but in the real world I did see some differences.
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#LandscapePhotography #D850 #5DMKIV
Dissappointed, thought you are going to talk about your new hat.
There are many serious and technical comment, and yours is the most liked?!?!? I agree thanks for the laugh!!!
I think a talk abot his new hat would have been less controversial....personally I would have preferred one about his hat....maybe he's waiting for offers of a new one ;)
Seriously, how did the new hat do on DXO mark?
Yeah! How was the real world experience of the hat! Warm yet let your head breath?
Lol. Well played.
There isn't a hobby as expensive as photography? Let me tell you about astronomy...
…Or classic car/hotrod rebuilds. 😂
Or running the Porsche 911 Thomas mentions in this video....
Space is fake...
@@roar40s stars are dead pixels (someone put that on a tshirt!)
Or flying!
The dynamic range of the D850 is legendary, you must have missed on the focus .
Obviously
Hahahahahaha, I love how Thomas just montaged all the camera reviewers together. That was hilarious Sir!
Wow, I'm speechless.....I've never had a file so muddy from my own D850. Definitely something not right there (poor lens quality, or maybe slight camera shake?). had a few blurred looking shots recently, using a tripod, but that was near a busy road (vibration?), but most of the time the images are truly spectacular (particularly on my Tamron 15-30 and my Sigma 135mm Art lens).
My D850 would have to be prised from my cold dead hands.
The problem is he is using a 11-year old 24-70mm non-VR lens that was designed when cameras only had 12 MP in them. I had that lens before with my D800E, and it failed to keep up to the high MP count of the newer cameras. Any modern lens would have yielded a much better result.
well He is pro photographer so I cant tell that you dont know how to use your camera but sometimes we forgot some simple things. I think he forgot to turn image stabilisation off on tripod. My experience shows IS has negative effect on tripod.
Well, this had me questioning myself today (my recollections), so I just went through a load of files in Capture One that were exposed for the highlights; birds in shadow in the trees, stained glass church windows from inside, sunsets etc; most with almost blacked out shadows, and I can confirm 100% that at least my own D850 kit is performing spectacularly in its shadow recovery...whew!!!
Highlight recovery is still very good but does not match the amazing shadow recovery (in my opinion, after 12 months experience with this camera).
I would definitely have another go with that D850, but pick a really good bit of glass (The lenses I use that give me amazing results, are the Tamron 15-30mm f2.8, Sigma 135mm f1.8 Art, Nikon 85mm f1.8g, Tokina 100mm f2.8 Macro.
Nikon 200-500mm f5.6).
My landscapes are set up with: Tripod mounted (or course), VR/VC off, remote shutter release, self timer at 5 seconds and shutter delay of 3 seconds, live view for accurate focussing (if slow). back button focussing (don't even breath on the camera....lol!)
You can also use the silent electronic shutter mode, but be careful in artificial light at high ISO settings.
I have found that truly amazing landscape images can be acheived with the D850, but you have to really watch out for any potential movement or vibration over longer exposures, same as with any camera, but much more so.
Sorry for the long waffling post.
A happy man again!...... :-)
I agree
@@KaiHinLkh Have no idea why you would think that. Don't really buy into the "it's good for 16 mpixels but..." I've had both and the Nikkor 24-70 is better in the first version. Don't like the VR one, got rid of it.
Thomas, as a Nikon shooter for over 50 years I can assure you that they are second to none compared to other 35mm or full frame camera's. Now with some camera's they aren't that much better, like the Canon or Fuji, but still better. Your photo of the brick church and grounds actually shows more detail in the foreground grass than the Canon so I would think that something happened with your woods detail shot. The detail in the grass and twigs should be eye shearing sharp. I would try another test shot if you can.
Love your positive attitude ("It's about photography, and not the gear.) And yet....(here we go, right?)...I've been happily [and profitably] shooting Pentax since the 80s, and I hope you decide to try the K-1.
This is great. I love that you are doing a review for the best camera for you, not the entire world. Many of the complaints made by other YT reviewers do not apply to landscape photographers while other features are glossed over but make a huge impact on quality and ease of use for landscapers.
Why didn't you use ISO 64? It's like having an extra gear that you chose not to go into. I shoot 80% of all my images at ISO 64 and find the results absolutely superb!
If you do an accurate performance test, you shoot at an ISO that's the best for said camera. Iso 64 has less image quality than iso 100
The 5DIV doesnt have an ISO of 64 (although I think it has a ISO 50 option). Looks like he wanted all the settings to be the same for the comparison.
@@pratikray6500 technically speaking, going into the "extreme" high and low iso ranges deteriorates the image (just a tad bit, not something massive
@@giuseppebaja The ISO 64 is a native ISO on D850/D810 so the image will be cleaner not 'less quality'.. The ISO 50 on 5dIV is not native.
@@giuseppebaja 64 iso is a native setting on the D850, it's not pushing or using a hi setting. The high pushing settings on the d850 put the iso down to 32.
The second Nikon file looks like it had minor camera shake. I have the same problem with my A7RIII, with the high megapixels I have to always shoot more images as shake is a lot more noticeable. But when it nails it is very sharp.
Akos Szalay I agree - my 5DS is completely unforgiving of poor stability and mirror slap
Hmmm looks more like completely missed focus to me...
This lens should be mounted on the tripod using the tripod foot , simple basic technique to minimise shake.
Yes. I have a 5DS R and minor shakes are quit unforgiving.
my strategy is just to take multiple images on burst when handholding and a 5s timer on the tripod instead of 2s, also taking multiple shots (but not on burst as that causes shake too) - or just use the electronic shutter
I own both Canon and Nikon gear (5Dm4, 1Dx m1, D850). Both brands are superb and both will produce excellent results in the hands of a skilled photographer once you’ve learned their individual idiosyncrasies. I can easily see the difference between the 5D4 and the D850, but it’s not the night-and-day difference that the specs alone would have you believe. I’m using the Canons mainly for wildlife work as I find their teleconverters to be miles ahead of Nikon; the telephoto lenses are equally good from both brands, but the moment you add teleconverters the Nikons are beat. For landscapes, it’s the other way around, although your lens selection will have to be done carefully to make the most of the Nikon. I considered selling off my Nikon gear and getting a GFX50S for landscapes, but ultimately decided against it because of the cost and way less versatile lens selection. I feel that medium format is a situation where the last 10% in performance make up 90% of the price. My advice to you: save your money and work with what you have. I doubt that your clients will ever see the difference in the prints. I may reconsider my situation once the 100 mp GFX100 comes out, but most likely, I’ll invest in better outdoor clothes/gear and bank the rest. Cheers from Nova Scotia, Canada.
"Photography is the most expensive hobby"
Videographers: "hold my beer..."
I don't really see a ton of people doing videography as a "hobby". I go to Disney World for example and see a ton of "photographers" snapping away. I don't see any videographers and no crappy vloggers with their M50's don't count.
@@toddysurcharge771 Just because they are crappy doesn't mean it isn't a hobby. Unfortunately Photography is more expensive then video as a hobby. You can still get a consumer video camera for less than a starter camera with kit lens. Now as a CAREER yes Professional video for films, news agencies, corporations, etc is much more expensive if you have to use cinema cameras with interchangeable lenses.
Toddy Surcharge I guess my idea of a hobby is different than most. For me videography is a hobby, it’s not my job (it was for a brief while) since I don’t get paid, but I still like to buy and use quality gear for lighting and audio. Walking around with a handy cam at Disney world wasn’t my idea of videography as a hobby.
Audiophiles: Hold my cable...
Videography is not a hobby. Never.
Ken makes his first appearance on Thomas's channel - golden
I believe Tom will eventually follow Ken's advice and buy a Fuji medium format camera, the one that Ken has.
@@jeffluo9591 Ken has both of them!
The D850 is one heck of a great all round camera - The dynamic range test looks odd because in use over the last years I've found it superb in practical real world use - but as you say the best camera is the one you know how to get the best out of! You love the shots out of your 5D4 so is switching really worth it?
If you've worked with Canon for so many years you likely know the system better right now... (wink wink)!
Great videos as always Thomas! Cheers, Tom
Hi Tom Mason love your wildlife photography keep it up
missing your field videos tom..
Hi Tom, honestly, this "test" is not serious. He took just a single shot, and he's not sure if it was in focus or if there was camera shake. But easily conclude 5D4 is much better. It seems a joke. Pretty suspicious.
I agree. I've seen a lot of Nikon D8xxs and Canon 5Dmxs on the workshops I teach. In my experience, the Canons can't pull as much details out of the shadows without having the image start to fall apart as the Nikon's can. If he was getting the results that he showed there is something else going on here -- it could have been camera shake from poor technique, not using the mirror lockup, focus miss, a lens issue or any number of other problems with technique. It's hard to say what happened, but it likely wasn't the camera.
Question - changing ISO 64 to ISO 100. If it makes such a huge difference, how does the D850 handle ISO 400 +++?
I think the most important point here is that photography should be about having fun and meeting good people. I am always more satisfied with a photo shoot when I have been able to interact with others and talk about the scenery we are experiencing together. The images are somewhat secondary (although, it is still fun to pixel peep). Thanks so much for the perspective you bring to the discussion.
The second shot of the D850 "Dynamic Range Test" looks out of focus to me!
There is a couple of things missed because you are not so familiar with D850:
1. Canon 5Dm4 and Nikon D850 does not gives you the same exposure for the same settings which is obvious from all your photos. D850 is almost 2/3 of a stop brighter and that is not because of different sensor. That is just Nikon's tweaking and it is the case if you compare Nikon FF cameras to cameras with similar Sony sensors like Pentax or Sony.
2. That is also the reason why Canon looks better in highlights with that high dynamic range forest scene, Nikon should be 2/3 of a stop underexposed to get similar exposure and quality of details in highlights. Don't worry about the shadows on Nikon, Sony sensors are much better in lifting up those shadows in compare to Canon sensors.
3. You probably used 5Dm4 minimum ISO which is optimal for Canon but not optimal for Nikon which has much lower minimal ISO. For a fair dynamic range test you should use minimal ISO on both cameras
4. Not sure about of blurriness of that D850 forest shot. Maybe you missed focus a little bit or introduced very little camera shake
It is also very important in tests like this to have lens with very similar quality. It looks to me that your Nikon lens is sharper but also have much more optical aberrations than Canon lens.
branislavpetkovic The D850 doesn't use a Sony sensor. It's made by a company that has links to Leica
@@mwatkinsphotos Sorry but the D850 has a Sony sensor. I don't know where you got that info but it's wrong. Pretty much all major sources have already confirmed that the sensor is made by Sony.
Actually, a BSI sensor will take in substantially more light, which is probably why the exposure is higher. Also, the D850 has a sensor that's designed by Nikon, but is manufactured by Sony.
@@mwatkinsphotos Yes that's true.
@@extraesfera No..D850 don't have a Sony sensor. Check this out and you will see that D850 have sensor design by Nikon and produced by other company{ called TowerJazz} than Sony. Sony was a company who made Nikon sensor in the past but they was design by Nikon. Sony only produced them.. D850 have a completly new sensor.
You should definitely check the Pentax K-1 Mark II out while you're at it.
I'd also be really curious to see that. And the price point is considerably better too.
@KoenigF50 Indeed.
It's kinda sad, that Pentax doesn't get any recognition these days. They produce great cameras as well as some of the best glass on the entire market.
@@alveus_ well, to be honest, their PR/Marketing is (and has historically been) so bad, it's not helping their situation at all. Slower than most AF and 2010 spec video isn't either. I should have probably premised this by saying I still use the K-5 and the K-01 and so maybe AF has improved with newer bodies but I know video hasn't. Still, for landscape work the K-1 II seems to be more than up to the task. Hope Thomas get his hand on one : )
I'd like to see what he thought, but it's not a practical solution for him due to lack of f/4 lenses - the 70-200/2.8 is superb, but it weighs a ton - and yes, I knnow there is a 70-200/4 coming next year, but no 24-70/4 on the roadmap, and the only wider modern lens, the 15-30, also weighs a ton.
The k1 seem to still have the best dynamic range of any full frame camera.
I came to Nikon from a Canon 5D MkII - never looked back. Love my D850 and D810 in equal measure!
Me as well, ... !
Same! Broke my old 5D mkii to my new beast of d850!! Can't even describe how mindblow I got 😍
@ The image quality is pretty much the same between cameras but the 850 is a more versatile camera than the D810 - mostly because of the useful additional shooting features and slightly better ISO performance.
@@makalu69 Hmmm... But should an amateur pay $3000usd to upgrade though... I mean, I was going to say that of course 850 going to be better, but even then you just said that the image quality is pretty much the same, so I'm not quite sure which features would be worth spending $3k for someone who's not rich and for whom 3k is far from being chump change... Is ISO performance this significant to warrant purchasing a brand new camera!?
Movies don't really matter, 99% photos, and it's single shot 99.9% of the time, the person ridiculed the 7D's 7fps or whatever rapid shooting mode at the time of my purchase (lol), so shooting speed really doesn't matter. Most use would be city/landscape shots, plus family photos.
What would be the greatest features to be worth a $3000usd cost in 2020, ~3 years after the 850 is released? I'll confess, I think it's probably not worth it for an amateur for the upgrade you're getting... I'm more "it's the photograph and not the camera" mentality, and as TH said in another video, besides upgradetitis and getting new toy... not very smart use of money to upgrade 810 to 850, as it's not like going from 12 to 36 MP and crop to FF... Very little IQ difference... But I've been wrong before lol
@ You need to make you're own decision - it's your cash! I'm just telling you that, whilst the 850 is a superior camera in several areas, the end product is not that different. If you want the new features - buy it - if you are happy with your D810's performance, don't bother. I wanted more versatility, the pop out live view screen, WiFi and faster shutter speed - for me, those features were enough to make me part with the cash. Your mileage may vary...
I think, it is not exactly a dynamic range test. It should be tested from the lowest aperture to the highest. Some values (especially higher than f / 11) canon give better results. But, when all the values are compared, Nikon will give better results. In the same way, the aperture values for the lenses will give different results.
My personal opinion, it is so small difference to to change the system you've experienced for years
I really hope you can try out the Fujifilm GFX 50r.
Professional landscape photographer...don't put any money on the table until you have tried the Fujifilm
Or the 50S.
Seconded. I would even go as far as saying try the GFX50s. Even though I only got to play with one for half an hour, I was really quite taken. If it wasn’t for the price tag, I would have bought it then and there. And I say that being a Nikon shooter.
@@DeputatKaktus The GFX50S (IMO) is a more versatile camera than the 50R it has a tilt swivel EVF adapter for those awkward angle shots plus the screen tilts on 2 planes. It had the same sensor as the 50R and processor. You can change the battery with an Arca Plate attached and it has shutter and ISO dials on the top plate. It is slightly heavier (body only) than the R but the bulk of the weight is in the lenses anyway. All this from a GFX50S user over a year.
Topsyrm The viewfinder was the first thing that struck me as absolutely brilliant. I felt immediately at home with the GFX50S and its interface. At this point, though, the price tag keeps me from getting into digital medium format. As for the weight....well, that is to be expected. But then as a bit of a Mamiya fan boy (shooting loads of analog MF) I am sort of used to cameras that weigh an absolute ton.
You didn't really use the best settings for the nikon... ISO 64 is a masive improvement for landscape. Also check the sharpness of the lenses you want to use on dxomark cause some lenses from nikon are absolutely not worth it as with canon. You must try some sigma/tamron lenses if you are looking for sharpnes.
But the 14-24mm is one of the best landscape lenses out there. I would say it’s at the level of a 16-35 Canon.
@Chris Egon Searle Art lens for both to be fair...
I agree^
Nick Arora, it seems you’re the emotional Nikon guy here! 😂 I agree with everything Thomas said. In order for him to go invest another few thousand dollars or pounds on a new camera, it better blow his out of the park and we’ll, that’s not gonna happen, specially with canon glass!
Top end Sigma on both cameras would have been smart way to test.
I think it’s quite clear as many many people have pointed out here that your technique for the shown images show some flaw in technique when using the D850, which is quite normal for a lot of people when switching to this camera.
I swapped to that camera myself recently and the difference in sensor and abilities of the camera I had and the D850 have really really shown me my areas of opportunity in improving my technique which was fairly decent at the time. The D850 is super unforgiving when it comes to use and user technique.
The other great point brought up by people is using its newer features such as the ISO range as well as ensuring your lenses focus setup is correct as again you’ll see it pick up a bad lenses weak points in ways other cameras don’t.
My recommendation would be to continue to use it, check the lenses your using and their calibration and then also re-visit your technique.
I know your a great photographer but sometimes we all need to take that moment to go back to basics especially when we start using new gear.
Everyday is a school day ☺️
Keep up the vids and happy photography. 👍🏻
why do not you consider pentax k1 as a landscape photographer? It has some great features for landscape like pixelshift, built in astro tracker and a lot more unic stuff. I'm asking it because I'm choosing my first ff body, and I cannot understand why nobody speaks abuot the pentax k1, a 2016 camera with an incredible performance and some unic features. I will be happy if u answer my question, thanks, Giacomo.
The problem on Pentax K1 is not the body itself, but lens choice.
The D850 shot of the DR woodland scene kind of looks out of focus to me. Or maybe it was a bad copy of the lens :-D
So far I haven´t heard of loosing so much sharpness by uitlizing the DR of either the D850 or the A7RII/III without even touching the overall brightness of the image and it would be in stark contrast to my own experience with the A7RII.
I think out of focus is a chance, but the 24-70 (which I think he used for these shots) the canon is simply much better than either the old or new Nikon.
I hate to say it, as a 15 year nikon user, but there is just no contest on that particular lens - so it could just as well be that.
@@scriptosaurusrex Great reading your comment since i've been sticking with my perfectly usable Nikon 24-120mm F4 and can't bring myself to spend extra $ on Nikon's 24-70mm offerings. (Mostly landscapes at about F8 )
Well, a camera body surely isn't going to give you CA! The muddiness in the foreground looked like bad lens performance to me too. What the heck lens was he using that looked that bad at f11? If it's really a typical Nikon 24-70mm at 24 thank goodness I've never given in to temptation on that one - pretty sure I get better performance with my old AIS 24mm! (admittedly on D810 rather than D850)
Lens diffraction kicks in above f/11. Keep the D850 set to ISO64 for best results.
Thanks for sharing. I like your work. Simplicity, sincerity and honesty. Greetings from Brazil.
Seems like a focusing and lens choice Issue to me. This CAs are massive! What Lens did you use?
I never shoot my Nikon D800 at f-stops higher than f 9 to f 11. Diffraction kicks in pretty fast. So maybe Canon glass can handle f-stops in the range of f 14 or higher better than Nikon glass?
d800 has more mpx so diffraction is more prominent, that is why you can push 5d mIV more..
The higher the resolution of the sensor, the sooner the light diffraction is noticed. I agree that F/14 is too small for such a high-res sensor, F/8 would be better. On the other hand, Thomas is experienced enough not to take his decision only based on that image. Greetings from Brazil.
Nope, absolutely not that. A higer megapixel will ALWAYS have more detail with the same lens and settings.
Diffraction doens't depends on pixel size, with a high mpx count you are simply sampling the already diffracted image at a higer resolution, so it will always be a bit sharper.
Steve Perry made a fantastic video about it where he compares a 4D to a D810, the D810 is ALWAYS sharper no matter the f stop /watch?v=N0FXoWdHXTk
I would have thought that you would take more than one shot to test, five or six then pick the best. High mega pixel cameras need more care, 5DSR owners found that out. Look forward to seeing how the med. format stacks up.
I did enjoy the video but must ask, if the results in the second test were so unexpected ( based on just one single photo ), would it not be a good idea to repeat it and maybe take a number of different versions in order to verify this ?
The next camera is the GFX 50R? I'm really interested to hear your thought on this because I think it's the camera made specifically for landscape photography.
Hi @thomasHeaton I love your channel (and your style), It is surprising indeed. Two things come to mind, 1/ did you know the native iso of the d850 is 64 and not 100? So you will get better sensor performance at 64 2/ which Nikon lense did you use? Usually Nikon lenses are on the same level as canon’s (and sometimes better) but there are a few exceptions. You are3 absolutely right - the lenses probably made the biggest difference.
I’ve been using Nikon since the ‘70’s and can’t see moving away from it but there is no incentive to do so. Obviously it’s a personal choice but if the differences are minor and you already own what you consider to be some of the best glass, why would you switch to a system that would require you to replace it all unless there is some incentive?
Fair enough and certainly granted that Nikon is a superb brand. However Thomas never said, what the problem is with him and Canon? Or is it only G.A.S.? The 5D Mark IV has been out now for roughly 2,5 years so, the only disappointment he mentioned is with the EOS R. Certainly Canon will push something extraordinary with a new Mark V or Rs in 2019... I cannot understand what the hassle is all about. He has fine lenses, a camera that may lack about 0.75/1 stop of DR compared to the 850 but never failed him ... I would rather understand it, when he said, he needs something fresh but honestly, that seldomly become manifest in the later pictures. I am confused ...
I think it's because he doesn't trust Canon to be a market leader anymore.
@@RickyHarline Well Nikon's Z6 and Z7 aren't something special either. These are just copy of existing Nikon's cameras without a mirror forcing you to update lenses sooner or later. And even if you switch to Sony's 3rd generation, there's hardly anything you miss as a landscape photographer now. If you would have double the DR, lower noise, etc. that would be something really standing out, now all I hear is: GAS, GAS, GAS for no obvious reason. ;-)
Yamanotefy I understand the need or desire to upgrade to the latest and greatest. But I also understand that new technology rarely gets it right on the first iteration so I suspect that the major manufacturers are already racing to improve their mirrorless systems. I’m not a professional and I’m quite content with the D810 so the grass does not necessarily look any greener on the other side of the fence anymore. I would rather spend time improving as a photographer than spend money hoping to improve my photography.
@@johnsholian4318 Wise words, wise words ... ;-)
I do a great deal of astrophotography and it is amazing the amount of detail that I get from the shadows using the D850. I am not disputing what Thomas' opinion is based on the results of his test shot with the Nikon camera but to me the dynamic range and detail of the D850 is superb.
_People ask me: What camera do you use ?_
_I answer: You don't ask a writer what typewriter he uses._
*Man Ray*
get a better lens for Nikon.
*I think this whole video is weird. You should know better beforehand. Reminds me of you taking a M50 with kit lenses up into the Alps and then coming back a bit surprised that it had camera shake and the images weren't as sharp as with your 2,8 lenses. I mean, come on. Do your research. Don't just concentrate on the photography especially when you are using a new system.
And as others have pointed out: you can't really compare those images 1:1 as the D850 will have more noise(compare them at the same resolution and the d850 will win), but it also has ISO64, which for some reason you didn't use, why???
Another thing, yes, this image IS out of focus. You can confirm this by simply looking at the sun, there is no starburst effect on the sun. And massive chromatic aberration indicates there is something wrong with your copy of the lens or it's just a bad lens. You never told us what you were using to begin with. And did you disable VR?
Check your mistakes and try again.
You don't need to be on the field to test IQ. You room is dark and the window is bright, there's your dynamic range test. Rent a decent lens.
Who knows, maybe the lens needed some microadjustment too.
Don't just make your mind up with first experience.
Anyways, hope this helps.
I hope you give Pentax a try too.
The nikon 24-70, which is the most likely candidate, is simply worse than the canon (this applies to both the vr and the non vr). It could well be true that it was also out of focus making the issue appear even worse.
Ail'enduril wow 😯
Bravo
Bronica SQ-A film camera 6x6 but an awesome bit of gear.
Hi Tom, Im Jeremy. Yours is the first photography youtube page that I started watching and is still my favorite. Thanks for all of your hard work. I am certain that it has made me a better photographer.
expensive hobby? try motorcycling....
I went back to landscape photography to save money
I don't read mcn nor buy the lates and greatest.
I only know that my cameras don't burn expensive fuel, don't have liability insurance, don't need expensive maintenance like oils, filters, tires, etc. So even if I don't race I still spend the equivalent of a new camera system every season on items like that. @@GeraintDafis
Depends, I ride Supers and once you buy the bike and the gear it should end there---but does it.?
Try motorcycle racing Thomas ,or even track days....as hobbies they blow photography out of the water when you're talking about costs 😵
Lynne Luxon-Jones Watch collecting. Track days are spare change compared to watches
@@RUclipsTookMyNickname.WhyNot lmao
Or sailing. Or horse racing. Or flying (esp. rotary wing)... But I guess photography costs more than skinny dipping or pigeon fancying.
@MP Right. Don't think he meant it as an insult towards other hobbies and their associated costs so much as a hyperbole to establish that it is costly, especially if it isn't how you pay your rent so the investment has little return outside of personal enjoyment.
It looks more like missed focus or camera shake, those high megapixels bodies are not forgiving, even my D810 is not that forgiving, the Nikon does deals better with shadows vs Canon, that handles the highlights more pleasing to my eyes.
I would not jump to quick conclusions...
The CA though..?!
@@AlgoFodder CA is an optical issue of the lens, I don't have enough technical knowledge to tell you how CA occurs on the optical level, and if missed focus has any impact on that, but practically speaking, no one really cares about CA, it's easy fixed in post anyway, when applying the lens profile in the raw processor...
Still no justification for Thomas's bald statement... 😀
Oh I agree it's a hasty conclusion - I'm just a bit surprised by the CA.. My old 24mm AIS I think does better than that at F/11! (D810 here also)
@@AlgoFodder Its impossible to know how and why, If he used Nikon 24-70 its on par with Canon's, CA usually present in these kinda scenarios (dark edges against bright skies) ...
what was your shutter speed? d850 is much more sensetive to shutter shake than low mpx cameras, plus d850 has a smaller pixel size, so its optimal fstop is around f8 (arri disk and all that stuff)
with all respect, you are just looking for reasons not to switch
Would you consider one of the new Nikon z6, z7 or Sony Alpha for you? Or do you think that changing to mirrorless cameras is not in question for landscape photographer ?
The Nikon dynamic range is amazing at its base iso of 64. You shot in 100 iso why ?
Yes, ??????
5DIV does not have native ISO 64, so maybe Thomas was trying, as he says in the video, keep the settings exactly the same? You could argue that "the same" could also have been "the lowest each camera offers" but I can see why he went with the choice he has.
Jan Strojil 64 iso is where the Nikon is best at dynamic range. In fact Nikon added 64 iso just to get the Dynamic range. So as a landscape shooter looking for the best Dynamic range he really did himself a disservice here. And what is worse he biased the shot against Nikons strength leading his viewers astray. The Dynamic range test is bogus.
@@terrywbreedlove Exatamente, a questão é: foi um erro involuntário ou uma atitude de má fé?
Certamente esse erro infantil não foi ...
Fran Camargo Paixão pela Fotografia talvez ele não tenha entendido como a câmera deve funcionar melhor. Minha pergunta foi honesta sem desrespeito pretendido. mas gostaria que ele respondesse a minha pergunta por simples curiosidade.
Renting a camera here in Vancouver is like $200/day (body-only). That's expensive price to pay to decide if you want to purchase it or not. I still think the best and most affordable way is still to do all the research, read and watch all the reviews and evaluate which camera to purchase.
Exactly my thoughts. Renting is far too expensive to get the hang of a camera.
On a d850, that's 5% of the purchase price to rent for a day. If you're considering a major purchase/system investment then even spending 15% on a lens and camera body for a weekend can be a smart choice. Now if you're purchasing a $800 camera, spending 25%+ on a day rental does not make much sense. :)
I’ve bought Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 G2 based on youtube reviewers and this was my biggest mistake, i’d rather rent and try... Tamron is shit, not focusing where needed, you have to calibrate by your self your new lens, you have to buy extra lens calibrator equipment from tamron and other equipmen and mostly spend your precious time!!! Later when you think this lens is calibrated, you hapy with results, sudenly it changes and it is not in focus when you review your phoshoot images... don’t trust youtube reviews and i think even dxomark, rent it, test it, and you will get proven test result... now i have to sell this new lens, because tamron and shop which sold it to me don’t accept it back as they say “with lens is everything ok...”
Just waisted 1000usd.... thank you youtube reviewers...
get into a photography group and befriend fellow photographers, they'll surely lend you their gear for a day or two for way less than 200$.
Come to Lithuania, you can rent a camera here for ~35e-50e/day.. Crazy compared to your prices...
Absolutely stunn'n how massive the difference was with the wide angle shots.
Alan Brock brought me here!
Super refreshing to see an honest, real-world video without all the brand loyalty and test chart BS. One of the reasons I left the digital rat race was the incessant pressure to upgrade my whole kit every 6 months.
Much respect for taking a pragmatic approach to gear. This coming from a self-proclaimed Nikon fanboy albeit I'm obsessed with the vintage bodies and glass.
With that being said, I very much look forward to your results with medium format!
Keep up the great work, I've learned a lot about landscape photography from your channel and appreciate your approachable, down-to-earth style. I'm also crazy envious of your adventure van!
Cheers.
I think one image shouldn’t decide the fate of D850 in real world. As u said quite a few things could have gone wrong. But as a recent switch from Nikon to Fuji, I am looking forward to ur review for GFx 😊😊😉
I doubt he rented a d850 just to shoot one image: he most probably shot a few and chose the ones that brought out the differences he intended to point out in this video
GFX is a beast!
Once he misses focus it will lose to the Canon. plus as he said before, he can't afford it...
Year you discovered the diffraction blur at F14 :-) It depends on sensor resolution. With higher resolution of the D850 the blur starts with wider aperture.
Possible, but I frequently shoot at f11 and sometimes higher on the A7R II and have not come close to seeing such an unsharp image at these apertures if my focus was correct and there was no camera shake. I could also imagine that it was some kind of mirror or shutter vibration due to lack of experience with the D850. I had this in the beginning with the 80D in live view. Turned out, for pinsharp images you had to activate EFCS, which was off by default. It reduced the sharpness so much due to the frequency of the first curtain and the focal length that it was less sharp than without mirror lockup through the viewfinder... Or Thomas just misfocused. I know, blasphemy, but who knows? ;-)
@@chilly243 having owned a d810 for some years, I can confirm that on 24-70mm f2.8 diffraction does shows above f11.
@@williamdavies6958 Yes, it certainly does, even from f8 to f11 you can see a difference when pixelpeeping, not only with a 24-70 on a Nikon. And the higher the MP-count on the same sensor size the sooner it kicks in. Nonetheless, the few pictures I took above f11 so far are much sharper than the image Thomas compared to the 5DIV image. As the D850 only has around 3MP more than the A7R II I certainly wouldn´t expect such a difference between the two regarding diffraction.
Interesting, but I’m glad you plan to throw these tech related videos out of the door in the new year :-) Your passion for hiking and nature is much more infectious.
shoot at ISO 64 on the nikon and there's no POSSIBLE way Canon is gonna have more usable dynamic range. a nikon d850 file will BLOW canon away. and i've done many tests to confirm that. u can bring up shadows 5 times higher without noise. canon will give u a LOT more shadow noise when brightened. i don't know how u got that result. lol. and i agree there probably was some shake on the nikon file. believe me. nikon and canon are like night and day when it comes to dynamic range at lowest native ISO. fact. no argues.
exactly
You should try iso 64, on the Nikon, I find myself using it quite a lot!
Interesting video Thomas, thank you; I'm wondering if, the Nikon being so much sharper than the Canon (per your print test), is simply therefore much less forgiving.....with the greatest of respect to you as a fine photographer....it will surely find any fault in your technique - including perhaps a minor shake?
If you shot the high dynamic range shots "seconds apart", why are the date stamps on the two images 2 hours apart?
Have you considered a Pentax K-1? Fantastic camera.
Woah Thomas... you've gotta mount that big lens via the tripod foot and not directly on the camera! LOL
Yeah, I felt the same when I saw that scene
The weight of the f/2.8 lens hanging off the front isn't going to do stability any favours. It might even explain the lack of sharpness. I pointed that out in the last video too, the lens has a tripod mount built in so there's no excuse!
it s not a big lens, the d850 or 5d4 can handle a 70-200 2.8 without any problem. for sure dont do that on a d3300. or with a 300 2.8
That’s a 70-200. It definitely does NOT require being mounted via tripod foot. Big glass does I agree but not the 70-200. Totally fine like it is
The 70-200 doesn't come with a arca swiss compatible foot which is probably why he has mounted it this way.
Why not the 5DS R?
This camera not for landscape, it’s for studio.
Roman Averin The 5DS R can be used for landscape. It has been used for landscape.
The 5DSR is also not just for studio, due to its great weather sealing etc it's also great for landscape
The 5 DS R is almost more than perfect for landscape photography. Thomas used it in Switzerland, but chose his old faithful cos it's a more all round camera.
I shoot mostly landscapes with my 5DS R and I'm more than smiling.
The 5DsR is great for anyone who shoots landscapes in limited dynamic range situations, or doesn't mind bracketing almost everything. For single exposures where extreme dynamic range is at play, the Nikons and Sony's mop the floor with the 5DsR, because it was one of the last cameras where Canon didn't use on-chip ADC, right before the 5D4 and EOS R.
Would love to see you try out the Sony A7R3.
I’m currently shooting with a Canon 6D. Debating my next upgrade. Leaning towards a Sony
This is my input to this theme:
1. canon 5dm4 has more then good enough dynamic range for most situasions, and if you really care about quality, you should not lift the shadows a lot anyway, even not on Nikon sensors(loss information, less quality colours ect.) HDR and blending images is a better option, I think!
2. Canon L glass is very good and specialy the one you use a lot, the 24-70mm mk2. Thats a good enough reason in it self, the lenses are MORE important then the body.
3. Do you really need to print that HUGE, so that you will se a big difference between 30 and 45mpx? Here will also the lenses play a big part.
Best regards from a happy canon 6d uses who have printed big(100*70cm) with out any issues at all =)
Something is wrong with that second photo test. I've done that same test and while the Mark IV is better then anything else Canon has ever made, its still far behind the Nikon D810 much less the D850.
Hey Thomas! Very interesting. Thanks for posting. If the dynamic range test was inconclusive because of possible 20 sec difference or photographer error etc., wouldn’t it be a good idea to repeat the whole DR test by taking the first shot with the Nikon and comparing the results with the first test? Indeed it might be more conclusive if both the clarity and DR tests were done three times each then you’d have a majority one way or the other. Maybe for future tests?
Is dynamic range so important that it beats clarity for you to decide that you’ll probably stick with the Canon?
I’m looking forward to your test with the Fuji GFX and hopefully one day you’ll get to the Sony A7R3.
All the best.
Assista a este vídeo e compare em duas vertentes:
1) O foco estava completamente errado;
2) Ou, uma segunda intenção escondida atrás.
Eu sigo o canal há muito tempo e sou apaixonado pelo trabalho e pelas fotos de Thomas Heaton.
Eu não posso imaginar uma comparação mais ridícula do que isso.
Christian Peterse: Accurate, could make the files available so we can analyze, okay the clear and democratic ... A good deal of confidence with your followers.
Hi Thomas I have been a Canon user for many years but recently switched to Nikon. My bugbear with all the Canons I owned, and there were many. was that if I moved 2 yards or 100 yards in that short space of time the Camera would change from 1/500th of a second to say 30 seconds when on shutter priority. This was intensely annoying as a motor sport photographer I often missed a shot in the heat of the action. I at present own a D500 with the 850 next on my shopping list. From a personal point of view I prefer the Canon autofocus system as I find the the Nikon system very much over the top and too fiddly, however on lens quality I find the Nikon superior. I laugh at reviews when they say that this camera won't do 7 or 8 frames a second when I can remember taking one shot of a car knowing I had to get it right. I feel that Cameras nowadays are more about technical input than excellence, they are too easy to use. When I had a wind on film Camera and Fuji 50 or 100 ISO film I really had to try hard to get excellent results, Incidentally I have kept my Canon 6D as I absolutely abhor using flash and it's indoor capabilities make me think that it is the finest Canon camera ever made and boy have I had some Canons starting with the Canon Eos In (a pair of them) going through the first stages of digital with the 10D right up to the 5DS. By the way I would ask if anybody else has had the problems I have had with the shutter speed switching with Canon as 2 of my Canon using friends have both had the same problems. All the best. David Cundy
Hi Thomas, after trying to help a few others diagnose some issues with bringing back under exposed pictures and seeing excess noise, green colors, etc I'm wondering if this is the same issue you ran into here with your test shot. The issue was identified by Nikon in firmware release 1.0 and "supposedly" fixed in 1.1 (they explained it as: Photos taken with On selected for Long exposure NR would sometimes have increased noise or shadows with a greenish cast). Well this issue only seems to occur on > 1 sec long exposures with NR turned ON which i know is counter intuitive. If you look up "alessio andreani" photography webpage he does have a blog post detailing the issue him and his friend both saw. Anyways not really important as I know its not the gear that matters, but just thought it might explain your less than stellar results.
Angry Photographer 😂😂😂
"The camera sucks!" hahahaha
Hilarious AF hahah
Angry "Photographer"
what a lying douchebag he is, lol. Wonder if Jason Lanier took him to court.
@@sulev111 I wonder if the public spat was the cause of Jason losing his "Sony Artisan of Imagery" title.
Something seriously wrong in the shadow detail test, Tom. Outside of medium format the D850 is the absolute king of pulling detail back from shadows, I think it's fair to say that's generally accepted in the business. I'm a great admirer of your work but you've let yourself down with this 'test'. I don't understand why you'd take so little care doing it if you wanted a valid result. And as for the Nikon 24-70 (I'm assuming it was the latest version) being so much less sharp than the Canon glass? There may be a marginal difference either way but, unless that particular copy was defective, then you've done something wrong because that file looked horrid. I wouldn't expect anything like that out of the D850 unless the ISO was up around 3200 or above. That said I'd have to agree that 45MP over 30MP is largely pointless unless, as you point out, you're regular making huge prints. Then again, the ability to crop and still have great detail can save an image if you've not found the perfect composition in the field.
Great video Thomas! I can't wait to hear your comments on the Pentax 645Z! ;)
I am biased because it's my setup, but the pairing that you would be smart to use is the 5dsr for most landscape/cityscape work and then also using a 5d4 for news/portrait work. It's an unrivaled setup in 2018 and perfectly covers the vast majority of high end work. I also add in a 1dx for sports work, but have been amazed how that workhorse has taken more of a backseat to the smaller 5d's when considering portability and tripod mounting.
In the end you judge it based on just one image that may (or may not) have had slight camera shake ?!?
Yep
Or maybe he shoot a lot but chose the worst image. It's pretty hard to trust a Canon user usually. they're the most biased :D
Wood, sounds like a liberal to me.... can’t trust this comment. 😂
I have a D850 and it is phenomenal.
You don't need a new camera Tom. We love your work as it is. Nobody's going to pixel peep at 200% on your photos. You can also get more resolution out the 5d4 by simply blending multiple shots like you do with your Panoramas. That Canon 24-70 lens is far sharper than the Nikon equivalent. Which is probably what you were seeing on your second test shot. Keep up the great work 😊
you missed the focus with the d850, it’s a lot more sharp than that, you have to learn how to use it before judge :) (obviously I’m not judging your art, I’m in love with your photos :) )
he didint, that soft is due to diffraction.
Linas Vaičiukynas I don’t have diffraction problems when I shoot proper. if you have to judge the sharpness you have to take a correct photo. use the best prime lens and you will see ;) this is a canon ad..
@@iamwhatiam6281 well you see what you want to see, diffraction is something that occurs to all cameras and all systems it has nothing to do with lenses or "magical camera systems designed using new technology"... This is what we see at f14 is a 100% diffraction problem. You can google it and you will see the same issues in different sources online with different cameras and different pictures.
I mean you dont have to feel butt hurt just because you cant overcome physics, but shooting f14 on crop cameras, doesnt matter how new it is you have to admit that there are some limitations and there are things that bigger format is capable of doing better. That is the whole point on developing bigger format cameras.
Assista a este vídeo e compare em duas vertentes:
1) O foco estava completamente errado;
2) Ou, uma segunda intenção escondida atrás.
Eu sigo o canal há muito tempo e sou apaixonado pelo trabalho e pelas fotos de Thomas Heaton.
Eu não posso imaginar uma comparação mais ridícula do que isso.
Shutter vibration maybe? Strange IQ indeed.
Canon’s lenses keep me firmly on their team (fortunately I do love their bodies as well).
Nikon made Canon's lenses for them up until the 50's. Nikon's lenses are unsurpassed, especially the superlative 200/2.
That's how they keep you hooked. Been there - got the t-shirt. Now sold all my Canon gear!
Thank you for the honest and very entertaining video. Also thank you for the reminder that its not the gear - but the experience. Appreciate the video.
When shooting at F14 you might be comparing the lenses rather than the sensors (diffraction).
Why is the Canon 5dsr not in the conversation?
He seems more interested in the newer models.
Because the dynamic range of the 5DSR sucks
Have you actually shot with 5DSR or you listen to Angry Photographer and Tony channels? Shoot with it before making stupid comments.
He's already tried the 5dsr. I asked him about it & he found the use of the tilting screen & other improvements more important than the extra resolution.
Is it possible this is the only review that has ever found Canon to have better dynamic range and everyone else got it wrong? Or more likely a mistake has been made somewhere?
hey thomas, i suggest you to jump out from a full frame / medium format comfort zone to a smaller sensor, namely a micro four-thirds sensor. and if there's a chance that you'll like it, you'll be cutting up to a much less payload everytime you travel. Olympus OM-D EM1 mark II is recommended.
Did you turn of the VR on the nikon lens? That afects the image when shooting on a tripod.
Expensive hobby you say? Have you tried motorsport yet? 😁 Or aviation?
aviation yea hahaha
Photography is not all that expensive compared to cycling, cars or flying. Also the Nikon 24-70 is not really a good landscape lens and was designed for wedding and events, personally I like my Tamron G2 lens and it has better reviews. Would be interesting to see that same shot witha prime lens.
Looking forward to the Fuji review! Remember that the Fuji simulations are saved in the raw files and can be changed in Lightroom after shooting.
I made the leap from Canon to Nikon this past month. I picked up the D850 and I have no regrets! It's an amazing camera... It's not an easy decision to make as you mentioned... it's a large investment. Even though the Canon 5Dsr is older... give it a try and see what you think. I went from the 5Ds to the D850... it's just a much better camera on a number of levels (IMO). Good luck in your journey to find the body which will work for you. Keep up the great work! Hatch
Excellent review Thomas, the practical field test is the only realistic way to get definitive answers to the practical questions around a piece of very technical kit. I'm looking forward to the next few tests, thanks Del
hahahaha I laughed too hard at the review montage. "cause the camera sucks!!"
“The camera sucks”~ Ken Wheeler 😂🤣😂🤣😂
He's the photography equivalent of a flat earther :D
@@BubuSnow93 The exact opposite actually.A real polymath.
Why dont you guys post your own videos then?
TheG7thcapo aah, the good old "then why don't you do it", the dumbest argument against any criticism when one doesn't know how to reply to facts.
Ken's a D850 fan, so I assume the quote is taken out of context, or concerns a small detail.
Now Thomas......you really wanted the Canon to win this. It's like rooting for a dear old friend to win a contest. As you said, your Canon has been with you for a very long time, and rightly so, it has served you well. All of that said is exactly why I still use my friend the Nikon.
I literally cheered when you said you'd be testing out the Fuji lol. I defected from Canon a few months back and I have no regrets so far. I wish I could afford Fuji medium format. Maybe one day... ::stares off into the distance with hope in my eyes::
"Most expensive hobby!" *Side-eyes his audiphile purchases...*
Why didn't you shoot the D850 at its base ISO (64)? That doesn't seem to be fair?
...and won't diffraction on a higher resolving sensor show its head quicker (f/14?)?
(Not a Nikon fan-boy, but just don't think it was a very fair real-world test.)
@@alanbrunelle1546 it is a real world test.. he went to take pics and this is what he got.. He clearly stated its not a lab test and thats the point of the video..
@@iforgotmyusername0 I understand that - but the issue is in a real world test you would shoot at the base ISO (64 for Nikon D850) and you wouldn't shoot at such a high aperture (above diffraction) and expect crisp results.
I'm 51, and new to game. Bought d500 and can exchange for d850. I've been struggling with the extra 2k. You've helped. Should I just keep my d500 til I'm good. I'm going off a figure showing the 850 being so much better at landscape and portraits. Is it worth cost of a z6. I can buy a lens and z6 for the 500 to 850 difference.
Well, I got the d850. NOT using yet. Learning on d7200. So thanks for advice. I've taken a few shots. I must have a learning curve, because I can't tell difference between 850 and 7200. So when will it become relevant? Would appreciate some advice. I'm new to shooting, and I'm a 51 yr old man. Advice would be nice. Thank you.
Thomas, you've previously mentioned that you're interested in doing more post processing with your images. After watching your comparison between your 5D IV and the D850, I'm curious if you've tried (manual) pixel shifting and stitching in post? It's an added layer of complexity but I'd be surprised if you weren't happy with the increased resolution. Just a thought!
Every lens has a sweet spot, canon lenses are sharper with a higher F-Stop. Nikon lenses are sharper at medium-high F-Stops.
Please try Sony Alpha A7R III too .
a9 is on sale.
I just moved over to A7R III with the Sigma adaptor. So happy with the choice.
It wouldn't survive the harsh conditions in which he often shoots 😁
It has too bad weather resistance, not acceptable for a landscape photographer
@@k_meowington People always say this. Whilst it's true it's not to the standard of the Canon and Nikon weather-sealed DSLRs, it does a great job. I have no problem with mine when it's throwing it down in the Cairngorms. If it gets exceptionally bad, I use a shell. I think people need to go out and use them and decide if it works for them =]
Been watching a lot of topgear have we Thomas? You are not alone ;)
Hi Thomas I am shooting with the 800D and I never go above 11!
Mostly I used the 24-120 F4 and sometimes 16-35 F4 for landscapes.
I realised that I can not use both of them above F11.
It makes a huge difference between F 8 and F 14.
The maximum I will go is F11. Maybe you just have to find the sweets-spot of your lens?
I've used, extensively, booth Canon and Nikon. And I've always obtained better images with the Nikon's. And my next camera will be a D850. Thank you for showing how NOT to make a comparison.
Assista a este vídeo e compare em duas vertentes:
1) O foco estava completamente errado;
2) Ou, uma segunda intenção escondida atrás.
Eu sigo o canal há muito tempo e sou apaixonado pelo trabalho e pelas fotos de Thomas Heaton.
Eu não posso imaginar uma comparação mais ridícula do que isso.
Precisely.
😂
I've seen other raw files of these 2, and the nikon has always been better. I think you have done something wrong
I've got a hunch that Thomas will join the medium format shooters next year.
Hi Thomas, I'm purely analogue, don't even own a scanner, all darkroom! Just like to say thanks to you for all the vlogs over the past year, beautiful imagery and very entertaining!
Will be interesting to finally see your choice of camera, next year I presume? Dust off that 5x4 of yours and do a comparison maybe? Old technology versus new! Merry Christmas to you and your family! Enjoy!
Hmmm I'm a little disappointed on your testing. You only shot one image for a comparison and make a conclusion from that? Oink oink... You should've shot the second image at the same time and not 20 seconds apart because atmospheric conditions (is that the right term?) changes fast especially when its not sunny. Also, you did not tell us what lens you used. The lens you rented might have been a meh lens. How about compare the images using both Sigma lenses to be fair.. I have watched a lot of DR test and the D850 does beat the Canon 5dIV though the 5DIV beats the D850 in higher ISOs and I think the DR charts on DXO/ Photonstophotos tend to be correct.
OOh so you basically never used both cameras but just "watched a lot of DR test " on the internetz and looked at a chart on DXO/ Photonstophotos. Right...
LOL
@@RicardoPestana If the nikon can produce a fairly sharp image in the first shot, then it can do so in the next as well, it was just a difference of dynamic range. Has the focus been proper, we would see equal sharpness although not "equal details" so to speak. Try to think before bashing someone
@@RicardoPestana So that makes my comment wrong? I don't have to own the cameras used in this comparison to know that the D850 is superior in DR. I won't believe on one video that the Canon 5DIV beats the D850 in DR when multiple videos prove otherwise.