This is a wonderful story of the skills of the engineers who re-designed and built these two replicas and a tribute to their work and those of the engineers of history. America has indeed a rich history of skilled engineering over the last 150 years and I pay due tribute to them coming, as I do, from another great nation of engineers, now sadly also declined as in the USA. My country of Scotland UK has had an enviable record of railway and shipping engineers. Best wishes. Ken
I tip my hat to all involved for literally “scratch building” these two exquisite steam locomotives from virtually nothing…a truly magnificent engineering/design feat! Congratulations! 🚂 🇺🇸
All this work was originally done without the benefit of electric power tools, electric lights and the thousands of other electrical devices that make our world easier. The power tools they did have were leather belt driven, powered by a water wheel or steam. Great video, thanks for posting it.
In the case of some British made locomotives, some of the machining was better then than it is now. They really did deserve their success with the industrial revolution, their railways were superior in many ways.
That is true of course that the originals had to be constructed with much less developed tools. However, I am sure the design was such that it allowed for the absence of more developed tools. In other words: the designs of each era refelct the state of the art of the tools. What is food for thought is to realize how carelessly historic artifacts are being destroyed and how much effort it takes to recreate. And secondly, how much skills and knowledge are being lost which each generation and have to be reinvented and relearned. Something which accelerates day by day since we have smartphones.
There has been a revolution in manufacturing techniques since these replicas were made in the 1970's. CAD and CAM, widespread plasma cutting, etc. New welding techniques and a world of change in materials from the 19th Century.
+falconoilcompany They of course originally had drawings- drawings done by hand and to scale, with dimensions and lists of materials. There were complicated pieces of machinery being built in factories in the 1800's; steam engines, looms, lathes, punch machines, etc. At least they found a boiler drawing which was the heart of the locomotive. These guys did an amazing job with the re-creation, and very wisely used updated fabrication techniques and materials (steel vs cast iron etc).
What a fantastic job of building these locomotives from just old photographs; truly a labour of love and great american ingenuity and passion and pride; Wow!! Beautifully presented. Thank you
This story , video and the people that took it all to life, are as special as any in our world today...proof we have not lost how it was made 100 years ago... While I'm sure some are not with us today what they built will tell us how talent and gifted they all are...First class job men, you can well be proud...
THANKS This brought back many memories of tasks I performed at the B&O in 1957/58 working on the last 3 old steamers as the Co converted to diesel power. Those who did repairs, never saw "from the ground up". It was very enlightening to see how everything 'began'.
Beautiful craftsmanship guys. Don't see much of that today, but there are still individuals who appreciate and understand the effort and talent that went into building those engines. Just gorgeous.
There is plenty of equal or superior engineering and craftsmanship today. The public are simply not aware of it as it's not relevant to their lives. Every process you see in that video is still common in industry and given how long machine tools last, some of those shown are likely still making parts. The track torches shown cutting heavy steel are still in use throughout the world. So are the machine tools. Casting methods and practices continually improve. The thinwall precision cast auto engine blocks of today are one example of many. Manual welding equipment is builds billions of dollars of pipeline, bridges, ships and much more every year. People should really stop thinking of everything they don't trip over on the way out their front door as a lost art. If you dig that stuff, try model railroading as a hobby! The same skills are used at a much smaller scale, and small work is often more demanding then cruder larger work with looser tolerances.
Great program! Makes me proud to be a resident from Orange County knowing that these beauties were built in Costa Mesa. And I had no idea that Ward Kimball was involved in this project. Thank you for sharing this! Cheers from Fullerton!
What a fabulous achievement, so very well done, to be part of this challenge must have been a wonderful experience, a real salute to American engineering skills! Thanks for this, love it.
Wow! Then drivers were fit with the tires back in the shops 4501 was stored? Magnificent! I'm 1 and a half hours away from tennessee valley railroad museum and I got to watch I bit of her restoration, 4501 will operate main line NS excursions this summer
Someone needs to restore Reading 2101. She's got shiny paint on her outside, but she's been languishing in static display in Baltimore at the B & O museum since being damaged in a fire. She needs a new boiler (and probably running gear) to make her operational. I'm sure the technical drawings exist somewhere. It would be a major investment of time and funds, but she deserves the love.
Watching in April 2020. First of all, this is an amazing video documenting our American history. I'm awed by the ingenuity and vision of the people that recreated these marvelous machines. I'm even more amazed because these are recreations of locomotives that were made originally 100 years prior. Sitting here in this time and place of political correctness and historical revisionists, I cannot help but wonder if a project such as this could ever happen again under a government agency. Imagine, patterns were made using talc as a parting agent, boilers were insulated with "mud" (which was a nice way of saying asbestos lagging), OSHA and EPA regulations would bring production to a screeching halt, and then when the finished locomotives were set in place the ceremony consisted of Christening them! Today, I'm afraid to say, this whole thing would be protested and funding would never get approved because of congressional infighting and the whole thing would be sh*tcanned in the blink of an eye. Sad Sad Sad!
It is 2021 now and it is mandated tn the four trillion dollar socialist deficit spending spree that automobiles be replaced with these replicas. Of course the gigantic boilers have been updated with giant batteries.
"...What was it the Engines said, pilots touching head to head? Facing on the single track, half a world behind each back ..." (Bret Harte, poet laureate, written at the Golden Spike Ceremony at Promontory, Utah on 5/10/1869). My wife and I were customers of Mr. O'Connor's son-in-law (whose name I have forgotten) who was in the picture-framing business in nearby Laguna Beach and who had a number of railroad-themed photos and paintings, for us. He told his father-in-law about our interests in railroads and Mr. O'Connor gave his son-in-law a pair of copper-etched commemorative "builder's elevations" of the two locomotives, which he then framed and presented to us upon behalf of his father in law. Wonderfully detailed.
I loved the video showing the building of Jupiter and 119. America's know how to be able to build precision locomotives, both back in the mid-1850, and again (only better) 150 years later shows we can build anything we want. Why then, is America no longer a major manufacturing country? Simply put, it must be politics that is keeping us from doing what we can do best!
Excellent video, a lot of work and a lot money! These two locomotives are similar type to the New Zealand K class Rodgers loco,s no 88 & 92 built around 1878, one spent many years in a riverbed,it got pulled up and fully rebuilt. NZ had two types of K class the early Rogers K class, later a big powerful KA/KB were built they weighed almost 150 tonne.The KA was No relation to the Rogers K class, completely different locomotive.
Well done, the film producers! Really well explained and illustrated. Never dull - unlike many railway videos (I'm thinking of some of the films from my native UK).
Watching this video makes me proud to be an American and seeing that America possesses one of the worlds best engineering & manufacturing capabilities! I just wish today's youth would put more interest in learning about our Countries History instead of being so preoccupied with their cell phones and Facebook!
Amen to you (even though, ironically, I'm typing this on a lap top computer logged on to the internet and you the reader the same [ I.E. not too much difference than facebook.] ) ! But I agree about being proud. I did keep wondering what machining parts (tires, cylinder heads, rods , boiler) was like in 1869 compared to this modern machine and foundry technique used for the duplication process ..
Those reproductions were built 35+ years ago and, then as now, there are many countries that had the technical and industrial capability of building reproduction 19th century steam locos. They really aren't particularly complicated machines. The biggest challenge was in dimensioning components using only photographs in the absence of most original technical drawings, which begs the question of how accurate major components for which no photographs exist, such as the controls and footplates are, especially considering that both reproductions were originally designed to burn natural gas (though much later they were converted to burn wood and coal). As for interest in history, the originals were scrapped in 1903 and 1909, so any historical interest placed in them is relatively recent. Older adults complaining about youth having no interest in history is a complaint as old as history itself. Perhaps ironically, such reproductions would be much easier and faster to build today than they were in 1979.
CaptHollister True, anything that was made before can be made again, the whole issue is the COST! I have a sheet copper lion head mask ornament from a NYC building cornice, it was originally made in several machine stamped pieces, hand soldered and riveted together, it certainly could be reproduced today, however, a set of very expensive steel dies would have to be fabricated for every piece and a many ton press used to stamp each piece, then each piece would have to be cut/trimmed, assembled, soldered and riveted. If making a replica of that lion mask cost $100,000 for all the foundry and machining work, is it worth it and who would pay that? I paid $800 for the original antique. O'Connor Industries built the replica engines, "Jupiter" and No. 119 for the National Park Service in 1979. The price tag back then was $1.5 million dollars, which included all the research and drafting of the engineering construction drawings. That's approximately $4.8 million today with inflation. If one of these replica engines cost $5 million to make today, who is going to pay that? In 1979 O'connor said the whole project was a "labor of love" so you can bet the actual cost if it had been a fully commercial for profit project where everyone was paid or charged their normal full fees for the work would probably have been double that amount. That was a lot of foundry and machine work! If we doubled that original amount then today with just inflation only it would be almost $10 million. I still don't see even that amount being enough to build two of these locomotives today.
Victorian Sculptures Let's not discount the fact that today, as in 1979, you could find many people and corporations for whom building one of these would also be a labour of love.
This was a great vid and many thanks for sharing it! To me the RR musuems that feature the shops are always the most fun to visit and being able to take part in this project would have been like going back in time. Can you imagine how shocked people on the highway must have been to see those trucks taking the engines to the site? Thanks again.
I totally enjoyed that and thank you for putting it on you tube. my daughter has discovered Curious George who lives with the man with the yellow hat in New York and have a doorman with a train set and of course just have to do this ceremony. Also there is a huge layout to the north of Philadelphia and they have a model of it. Yes I visited it and the New Hope Railroad and had a cab ride...hence my You Tube name. David in Reading UK.
I think that building those (2) Locomotives, was something special. I hope that someday, that someone, with enough funds, & the same "pipe-dream" that I have, will build a brand new (C & O Allegheny), 2666 wheel configuration. Arguably, the biggest Steam Locomotive, ever built.
Here in Queensland we have a A10 Nielsen 1865, 0-4-2 with 2-axle tender, still running after years as a pedestal mount outfront of our main Station and Yards in Brisbane. Then restored and made part of the Heritage Fleet. ( original coaches as well). Runs regularly on the High Iron ( 120 lbs/yd...60kg/m.) A long way from the original 30 and 35 lbs/yd of the 1860s and 70s. DocAV
In my younger days I was a telegraph Operator for the I C Railroad there was just something about the Old Steam Locomotives that had a special something that was lost when they went to diesel engines
People build custom steam trains a little bigger than a human on their own, i'm sure we could easily still build steam trains. My hope is that if/when we run out of fuels for trains today, they will bring back steam engines. :)
Any form of steam power that would arrive in the future would look nothing like the steam locomotives of old, and would use some sort of electric drive. The conventional steam locomotives were incredibly inefficient in their use of fossil fuels.
Fascinating. A lot of investment to make just 2 of something. If you tried this again today they'd tell you to call China and order up some shitty parts. The frame is thinner than I thought, and I didn't know the cow catchers were made of wood.
That's right. Ward was a train buff himself. He had his own narrow gauge railroad (including an operating steam locomotive named the Emma Nevada). His railroad collection was donated to the Orange Empire Railway Museum after he passed.
John, I really enjoyed this story. Was there any figures given for how much money was spent finishing these two magnificent machines?? I can't even fathom the cost, considering that the contracted machine company that did the work even had to go so far as to reconstruct their shop floor, installing iron rails to accommodate the massive machines.
The engineering analysis of the old photos is an early use of photogrammetry (3:11) which itself is historic and important. It's interesting to find that here. While photogrammetry was used more than a century before in mapping, industrial uses are much more recent. Instead of computers they had to rely on a combination of measurement, knowledge of standard part dimensions (and not much was standard in the 1800s!) and many years of experience. It's quite an accomplishment!
This is probably weird since you asked this a year ago, but yes, Jupiter and 119 are still operating just fine. I've been up there several times in my life, and they're some of the most polished locomotives I've seen. Jupiter's even gotten its own unique coat of paint! I wonder if they've ever pulled trains...
I think the construction of these replica locomotives was more relevant than the construction of the originals. There were certainly more people that fell in love with them while they were building them than in 1868. Its like these Beauties are the Original locomotives...
That is because the younger generation of people today doesn't give a shit about the history of this Nation. The company that reconstructed these Locomotive were magnificent.
Awesome! Ironically, Promontory eventually became part of a secondary freight route and the tracks were lifted during WWII when the nation faced a steel shortage.
Now THIS is the great side of America. The "can do" attitude that simply got a collection of skilled people together to try to recreate lost arts and give us an impossible bit of that past to enjoy.
Excellent lesson here. I'm certain O'Connor can do an all-new boiler, based on preserved drawings for Baldwin Locomotive Works #2816, for Old Tucson Studios #11 "Reno," ex-Virginia & Truckee, of modern steels unavailable when Baldwin got the contract; the Studios gutted the original wrought-iron boiler sometime before the 1995 fire and botched cosmetic restoration. (As of 2014, #11 has the Schenectady cab from her stand-in role as Central Pacific #60, since re-created by O'Connor Engineering, rather than a correct Baldwin cab.)
B. C. Schmerker sadly mr O'Connor passed in '07. His shops now only make fluid heads for tripods and not steam engines like they also used to make. I'm certain there's plenty of people out there who'd want to do the job, but the locomotive is property of warner brothers studios in Tucson and they might not want people to work on it. Mr. David kloke who built the CP leviathan replica and the NCRR York replica for steam into history might be good for the job though. It's just a matter of convincing the owners of old number 11 to allow her to steam again. Strasburg does have the capacity to build new boilers for locomotives, but one for something as old as the reno might be out of their league! Yes they built a new boiler for the WDWRR Lilly belle, but mind you she is a narrow gauge 1920s engine that already had a new boiler (circa 1972/73) on her when she came in and, if I'm not mistaken, the new new boiler is computerized (at least that's what's being said). That's not to say though that it can't be done! I'm just not sure that Strasburg would be able to build a new boiler for something that's 140+ years old considering how it's made much different from what they've built new boilers for. There are other locomotives out there from the same time period as the Reno that deserve to steam again, though, that are probably in better shape like the CP Huntington at the CSRM, the John Bull at the smithsonian, the General at the southern museum of civil war history in Georgia, or the NYCHRR 999 at MSI in chicago. But remember, it's not just about the boiler, mechanically wise, there's also the cylinders, the bearings, and other things that need to be considered; logistic-wise there's also the issues of labor, time, money, and the availability of materials needed to put the locomotive back into steam.
@@johnerikson7094 There's also the matter of wear and tear of historical fabric, which is why the RR Museum of PA would rather not operate the PRR 1223 or 8063 again. Also, the 11 has a Baldwin cab, I think... It was the 119, the Genoa, no. 12 was the Jupiter. Old Tucson has talked about restoring number 11 and putting it indoors recently. When or if they actually follow through, only time will tell...
The Locomotives i'm thinking of was the Diamond Caldor rail road with their Shay's from Caldor to Diamond Springs, Ward Kimball's Locomotives were never in Grizzly Flats Calif
There is another replica was build like the Jupiter, but he was red, gold, and brown. His name is the Leviathan www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/8/4/4784.1380071521.jpg
Where these replicas built with our tax dollars in 1975? Please don't get me wrong, they are gorgeous and glorious! I wonder if the drawings and notes have been properly archived this second go around.
I had to leave the building when at 3:00 the guy says "we had to develop a micrometer that would work with a caliper" Yea right. What they needed and simply did (as he shows) was to scale the photos.
This is a wonderful story of the skills of the engineers who re-designed and built these two replicas and a tribute to their work and those of the engineers of history. America has indeed a rich history of skilled engineering over the last 150 years and I pay due tribute to them coming, as I do, from another great nation of engineers, now sadly also declined as in the USA. My country of Scotland UK has had an enviable record of railway and shipping engineers. Best wishes. Ken
And what was the cost for building these Locomotives.
I tip my hat to all involved for literally “scratch building” these two exquisite steam locomotives from virtually nothing…a truly magnificent engineering/design feat!
Congratulations! 🚂 🇺🇸
All this work was originally done without the benefit of electric power tools, electric lights and the thousands of other electrical devices that make our world easier.
The power tools they did have were leather belt driven, powered by a water wheel or steam.
Great video, thanks for posting it.
In the case of some British made locomotives, some of the machining was better then than it is now. They really did deserve their success with the industrial revolution, their railways were superior in many ways.
C Smith
How dare you! Traitor! Lol.
That is true of course that the originals had to be constructed with much less developed tools. However, I am sure the design was such that it allowed for the absence of more developed tools. In other words: the designs of each era refelct the state of the art of the tools.
What is food for thought is to realize how carelessly historic artifacts are being destroyed and how much effort it takes to recreate. And secondly, how much skills and knowledge are being lost which each generation and have to be reinvented and relearned. Something which accelerates day by day since we have smartphones.
There has been a revolution in manufacturing techniques since these replicas were made in the 1970's. CAD and CAM, widespread plasma cutting, etc. New welding techniques and a world of change in materials from the 19th Century.
All credit to the loco builders, they have done a great job, especially without drawings.
+falconoilcompany They of course originally had drawings- drawings done by hand and to scale, with dimensions and lists of materials. There were complicated pieces of machinery being built in factories in the 1800's; steam engines, looms, lathes, punch machines, etc. At least they found a boiler drawing which was the heart of the locomotive. These guys did an amazing job with the re-creation, and very wisely used updated fabrication techniques and materials (steel vs cast iron etc).
@Iain Botham ,
If only they could pull excursions
Hopefully they kept all the drawings they themselves made.
At some point, I began to imagine a colossal, steam-fired, mechanical spider interrupting the ceremony...
Kenneth Brannagh's best work ;-)
🤣🤣🤣🤣
then you passed away.
What a fantastic job of building these locomotives from just old photographs; truly a labour of love and great american ingenuity and passion and pride; Wow!! Beautifully presented. Thank you
This story , video and the people that took it all to life, are as special as any in our world today...proof we have not lost how it was made 100 years ago... While I'm sure some are not with us today what they built will tell us how talent and gifted they all are...First class job men, you can well be proud...
Builder99 You said it well Sir .It took me back to my late father who was a tool maker using lathes and micrometres great story.
THANKS This brought back many memories of tasks I performed at the B&O in 1957/58 working on the last 3 old steamers as the Co converted to diesel power. Those who did repairs, never saw "from the ground up". It was very enlightening to see how everything 'began'.
Beautiful craftsmanship guys. Don't see much of that today, but there are still individuals who appreciate and understand the effort and talent that went into building those engines. Just gorgeous.
There is plenty of equal or superior engineering and craftsmanship today. The public are simply not aware of it as it's not relevant to their lives. Every process you see in that video is still common in industry and given how long machine tools last, some of those shown are likely still making parts. The track torches shown cutting heavy steel are still in use throughout the world. So are the machine tools. Casting methods and practices continually improve. The thinwall precision cast auto engine blocks of today are one example of many. Manual welding equipment is builds billions of dollars of pipeline, bridges, ships and much more every year.
People should really stop thinking of everything they don't trip over on the way out their front door as a lost art. If you dig that stuff, try model railroading as a hobby! The same skills are used at a much smaller scale, and small work is often more demanding then cruder larger work with looser tolerances.
I've seen these locomotives in person, and they're even more impressive than they appear in photos and video!
Great program! Makes me proud to be a resident from Orange County knowing that these beauties were built in Costa Mesa. And I had no idea that Ward Kimball was involved in this project. Thank you for sharing this! Cheers from Fullerton!
What a fabulous achievement, so very well done, to be part of this challenge must have been a wonderful experience, a real salute to American engineering skills!
Thanks for this, love it.
Wow! Then drivers were fit with the tires back in the shops 4501 was stored? Magnificent! I'm 1 and a half hours away from tennessee valley railroad museum and I got to watch I bit of her restoration, 4501 will operate main line NS excursions this summer
Someone needs to restore Reading 2101. She's got shiny paint on her outside, but she's been languishing in static display in Baltimore at the B & O museum since being damaged in a fire. She needs a new boiler (and probably running gear) to make her operational. I'm sure the technical drawings exist somewhere. It would be a major investment of time and funds, but she deserves the love.
Great stuff. I was at the 1969 commemoration. Need to go back again.
I love the Jupiter, always have, and this is really nice. What beautiful locomotives.
What beautiful locomotives
Old tech fascinates me. Thanks for the upload, John.
Watching in April 2020. First of all, this is an amazing video documenting our American history. I'm awed by the ingenuity and vision of the people that recreated these marvelous machines. I'm even more amazed because these are recreations of locomotives that were made originally 100 years prior. Sitting here in this time and place of political correctness and historical revisionists, I cannot help but wonder if a project such as this could ever happen again under a government agency. Imagine, patterns were made using talc as a parting agent, boilers were insulated with "mud" (which was a nice way of saying asbestos lagging), OSHA and EPA regulations would bring production to a screeching halt, and then when the finished locomotives were set in place the ceremony consisted of Christening them! Today, I'm afraid to say, this whole thing would be protested and funding would never get approved because of congressional infighting and the whole thing would be sh*tcanned in the blink of an eye. Sad Sad Sad!
It is 2021 now and it is mandated tn the four trillion dollar socialist deficit spending spree that automobiles be replaced with these replicas. Of course the gigantic boilers have been updated with giant batteries.
@@deconteesawyer5758 Yawn. Another economic illiterate who doesn't know what "socialism" really is, only what Faux Noise tells him to think.
@@wlewisiii ... says the lad whose only social skills involve persuading his mom to buy him more dolls , er Action Figures.
Both helped shape America. Both are beautiful locomotives.
"...What was it the Engines said, pilots touching head to head? Facing on the single track,
half a world behind each back ..." (Bret Harte, poet laureate, written at the Golden Spike Ceremony at Promontory, Utah on 5/10/1869).
My wife and I were customers of Mr. O'Connor's son-in-law (whose name I have forgotten) who was in the picture-framing business in nearby Laguna Beach and who had a number of railroad-themed photos and paintings, for us. He told his father-in-law about our interests in railroads and Mr. O'Connor gave his son-in-law a pair of copper-etched commemorative "builder's elevations" of the two locomotives, which he then framed and presented to us upon behalf of his father in law. Wonderfully detailed.
I loved the video showing the building of Jupiter and 119. America's know how to be able to build precision locomotives, both back in the mid-1850, and again (only better) 150 years later shows we can build anything we want. Why then, is America no longer a major manufacturing country? Simply put, it must be politics that is keeping us from doing what we can do best!
Sat back in my comfy chair and thoroughly enjoyed this video..thanks for posting...
A most fullfilling achievement to accomplish! Industrial technologies are amazing to learn about whether new or old! Nice video!
Excellent video, a lot of work and a lot money! These two locomotives are similar type to the New Zealand K class Rodgers loco,s no 88 & 92 built around 1878, one spent many years in a riverbed,it got pulled up and fully rebuilt. NZ had two types of K class the early Rogers K class, later a big powerful KA/KB were built they weighed almost 150 tonne.The KA was No relation to the Rogers K class, completely different locomotive.
Well done, the film producers! Really well explained and illustrated. Never dull - unlike many railway videos (I'm thinking of some of the films from my native UK).
i love how the trains were made
Watching this video makes me proud to be an American and seeing that America possesses one of the worlds best engineering & manufacturing capabilities! I just wish today's youth would put more interest in learning about our Countries History instead of being so preoccupied with their cell phones and Facebook!
Amen to you (even though, ironically, I'm typing this on a lap top computer logged on to the internet and you the reader the same [ I.E. not too much difference than facebook.] ) ! But I agree about being proud. I did keep wondering what machining parts (tires, cylinder heads, rods , boiler) was like in 1869 compared to this modern machine and foundry technique used for the duplication process ..
Those reproductions were built 35+ years ago and, then as now, there are many countries that had the technical and industrial capability of building reproduction 19th century steam locos. They really aren't particularly complicated machines. The biggest challenge was in dimensioning components using only photographs in the absence of most original technical drawings, which begs the question of how accurate major components for which no photographs exist, such as the controls and footplates are, especially considering that both reproductions were originally designed to burn natural gas (though much later they were converted to burn wood and coal). As for interest in history, the originals were scrapped in 1903 and 1909, so any historical interest placed in them is relatively recent. Older adults complaining about youth having no interest in history is a complaint as old as history itself. Perhaps ironically, such reproductions would be much easier and faster to build today than they were in 1979.
I absolutely agree with you 100%.
CaptHollister True, anything that was made before can be made again, the whole issue is the COST! I have a sheet copper lion head mask ornament from a NYC building cornice, it was originally made in several machine stamped pieces, hand soldered and riveted together, it certainly could be reproduced today, however, a set of very expensive steel dies would have to be fabricated for every piece and a many ton press used to stamp each piece, then each piece would have to be cut/trimmed, assembled, soldered and riveted.
If making a replica of that lion mask cost $100,000 for all the foundry and machining work, is it worth it and who would pay that? I paid $800 for the original antique.
O'Connor Industries built the replica engines, "Jupiter" and No. 119
for the National Park Service in 1979. The price tag back then was $1.5 million dollars, which included all the research and drafting of the engineering construction drawings.
That's approximately $4.8 million today with inflation.
If one of these replica engines cost $5 million to make today, who is going to pay that? In 1979 O'connor said the whole project was a "labor of love" so you can bet the actual cost if it had been a fully commercial for profit project where everyone was paid or charged their normal full fees for the work would probably have been double that amount. That was a lot of foundry and machine work! If we doubled that original amount then today with just inflation only it would be almost $10 million.
I still don't see even that amount being enough to build two of these locomotives today.
Victorian Sculptures Let's not discount the fact that today, as in 1979, you could find many people and corporations for whom building one of these would also be a labour of love.
When Steam Locomotives rule the rails before the Diesel took over.
Ya' just gotta' love people who go onto your channel and mark "dislike" on all of your videos. It's the same guy all the way down.
This is a fine video. Why would anyone dislike this? I'll probly watch it several more times.
I've contacted O'Connor labs about building replicas of the General & Texas. It would take a lot of money!
It's possible to delete that person from your comments - plenty of RUclipsrs do that, giving themselves great satisfaction.
These two locomotives are the best!
Most who do this are autistic. They are laughable, worthless and best ignored.
One of the most beautiful stories on You Tube.
The shots of UP 844 and N&W 611 were awesome.
I feel so lucky to have seen them in real life back in 1996. My mother thought that they were gorgeous replicas.
This was a great vid and many thanks for sharing it! To me the RR musuems that feature the shops are always the most fun to visit and being able to take part in this project would have been like going back in time. Can you imagine how shocked people on the highway must have been to see those trucks taking the engines to the site? Thanks again.
0:44 Such a beautiful whistle sound
I watched this all the time when I was little thank you for putting it on RUclips
Spactular, works of art, magnificent machines, built like some of the finest
Guns! Except in a giant way!!!
True works of art. Amazing!
Thank you so much I watched this all my childhood and watched the vid dozens of times
Awesome video! Very informative. I just filmed those engines at Promontory
Pretty fascinating documentary about American steam engines.
This is the Coolest Video I have seen in a while.
But i am a Mechanical Engineer. Just Beautiful Thank you for sharing this.
I totally enjoyed that and thank you for putting it on you tube.
my daughter has discovered Curious George who lives with the man with the yellow hat in New York and have a doorman with a train set and of course just have to do this ceremony.
Also there is a huge layout to the north of Philadelphia and they have a model of it. Yes I visited it and the New Hope Railroad and had a cab ride...hence my You Tube name.
David in Reading UK.
I love how the 844 makes an appearance!
For anyone interested in this, a great follow on watch is "No 6207 A Study in Steel 1935"
I think that building those (2) Locomotives, was something special. I hope that someday, that someone, with enough funds, & the same "pipe-dream" that I have, will build a brand new (C & O Allegheny), 2666 wheel configuration. Arguably, the biggest Steam Locomotive, ever built.
I love the golden spike it's small but sadly the best train museum in Utah but the engines where amazing
Here in Queensland we have a A10 Nielsen 1865, 0-4-2 with 2-axle tender, still running after years as a pedestal mount outfront of our main Station and Yards in Brisbane. Then restored and made part of the Heritage Fleet. ( original coaches as well).
Runs regularly on the High Iron ( 120 lbs/yd...60kg/m.) A long way from the original 30 and 35 lbs/yd of the 1860s and 70s.
DocAV
In my younger days I was a telegraph Operator for the I C Railroad there was just something about the Old Steam Locomotives that had a special something that was lost when they went to diesel engines
Fascinating story ! Thank you for sharing.
i simply love to watch it gives me what man can't do if it thinks it will !
Wonderful video.
Damn who knew building a train 🚂 was such hard work
People build custom steam trains a little bigger than a human on their own, i'm sure we could easily still build steam trains. My hope is that if/when we run out of fuels for trains today, they will bring back steam engines. :)
Any form of steam power that would arrive in the future would look nothing like the steam locomotives of old, and would use some sort of electric drive. The conventional steam locomotives were incredibly inefficient in their use of fossil fuels.
Fascinating. A lot of investment to make just 2 of something.
If you tried this again today they'd tell you to call China and order up some shitty parts.
The frame is thinner than I thought, and I didn't know the cow catchers were made of wood.
@Thomas Munn Sierra Nevada.
That's right. Ward was a train buff himself. He had his own narrow gauge railroad (including an operating steam locomotive named the Emma Nevada). His railroad collection was donated to the Orange Empire Railway Museum after he passed.
Awesome video! I love the old American type 4-4-0s!
John, I really enjoyed this story. Was there any figures given for how much money was spent finishing these two magnificent machines?? I can't even fathom the cost, considering that the contracted machine company that did the work even had to go so far as to reconstruct their shop floor, installing iron rails to accommodate the massive machines.
Thanks for posting.
The engineering analysis of the old photos is an early use of photogrammetry (3:11) which itself is historic and important. It's interesting to find that here. While photogrammetry was used more than a century before in mapping, industrial uses are much more recent. Instead of computers they had to rely on a combination of measurement, knowledge of standard part dimensions (and not much was standard in the 1800s!) and many years of experience. It's quite an accomplishment!
Beautiful locomotives! It's amazing how those replicas were made so authentic. Are they still in working condition?
This is probably weird since you asked this a year ago, but yes, Jupiter and 119 are still operating just fine. I've been up there several times in my life, and they're some of the most polished locomotives I've seen. Jupiter's even gotten its own unique coat of paint! I wonder if they've ever pulled trains...
Well, acutally a surprising number of Disney animators were steam fans as well
I think the construction of these replica locomotives was more relevant than the construction of the originals. There were certainly more people that fell in love with them while they were building them than in 1868. Its like these Beauties are the Original locomotives...
We must regain the GREATNESS we once had , and have now so sadly lost.
That is because the younger generation of people today doesn't give a shit about the history of this Nation. The company that reconstructed these Locomotive were magnificent.
Terry Dennis. If only the youth would take a trip to see these trains in Utah, they may enjoy it and see the important history of the great country.
Your heritage is being replaced by non whites
Makin me cry over here.
Excellent.
Thanks for the upload.
great documentary,
I remember seeing this in Promontory. I'm glad that it's been posted online. It'd be nice to see, Bob Dowty's, Tail's From the Rail's, video.
Awesome! Ironically, Promontory eventually became part of a secondary freight route and the tracks were lifted during WWII when the nation faced a steel shortage.
Ward was a BIG train buff.
Now THIS is the great side of America. The "can do" attitude that simply got a collection of skilled people together to try to recreate lost arts and give us an impossible bit of that past to enjoy.
Wish they were still being built today
Now That’s Some Serious “Cowboy Tech”😮😀🧰🇺🇸
I Think I Actually Learned Something Remotely Useful
Beautiful, thanks.
12:54 well i see the 4501 in the background, nice to see
Excellent lesson here. I'm certain O'Connor can do an all-new boiler, based on preserved drawings for Baldwin Locomotive Works #2816, for Old Tucson Studios #11 "Reno," ex-Virginia & Truckee, of modern steels unavailable when Baldwin got the contract; the Studios gutted the original wrought-iron boiler sometime before the 1995 fire and botched cosmetic restoration. (As of 2014, #11 has the Schenectady cab from her stand-in role as Central Pacific #60, since re-created by O'Connor Engineering, rather than a correct Baldwin cab.)
B. C. Schmerker sadly mr O'Connor passed in '07. His shops now only make fluid heads for tripods and not steam engines like they also used to make. I'm certain there's plenty of people out there who'd want to do the job, but the locomotive is property of warner brothers studios in Tucson and they might not want people to work on it. Mr. David kloke who built the CP leviathan replica and the NCRR York replica for steam into history might be good for the job though. It's just a matter of convincing the owners of old number 11 to allow her to steam again. Strasburg does have the capacity to build new boilers for locomotives, but one for something as old as the reno might be out of their league! Yes they built a new boiler for the WDWRR Lilly belle, but mind you she is a narrow gauge 1920s engine that already had a new boiler (circa 1972/73) on her when she came in and, if I'm not mistaken, the new new boiler is computerized (at least that's what's being said). That's not to say though that it can't be done! I'm just not sure that Strasburg would be able to build a new boiler for something that's 140+ years old considering how it's made much different from what they've built new boilers for. There are other locomotives out there from the same time period as the Reno that deserve to steam again, though, that are probably in better shape like the CP Huntington at the CSRM, the John Bull at the smithsonian, the General at the southern museum of civil war history in Georgia, or the NYCHRR 999 at MSI in chicago. But remember, it's not just about the boiler, mechanically wise, there's also the cylinders, the bearings, and other things that need to be considered; logistic-wise there's also the issues of labor, time, money, and the availability of materials needed to put the locomotive back into steam.
@@johnerikson7094 There's also the matter of wear and tear of historical fabric, which is why the RR Museum of PA would rather not operate the PRR 1223 or 8063 again. Also, the 11 has a Baldwin cab, I think... It was the 119, the Genoa, no. 12 was the Jupiter. Old Tucson has talked about restoring number 11 and putting it indoors recently. When or if they actually follow through, only time will tell...
'
old fashion train time with hot water steamed is a soo beautifully train
The Locomotives i'm thinking of was the Diamond Caldor rail road with their Shay's from Caldor to Diamond Springs, Ward Kimball's Locomotives were never in Grizzly Flats Calif
That T&P or Southern 610. The big 2-10-4 that was in Excursion service during the 70's and early 80's.
Passion! Great job!
So what happened to the original 119 and the Jupiter?
They were scrapped
There is another replica was build like the Jupiter, but he was red, gold, and brown. His name is the Leviathan
www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/8/4/4784.1380071521.jpg
Their parts and artifacts are in a museum.
they were both scrapped. 119 in 1901 and Jupiter in 1903 for $1000 each.
Whose stupid idea was that?!
The one and only!
Nice 844 cameo
Where these replicas built with our tax dollars in 1975? Please don't get me wrong, they are gorgeous and glorious! I wonder if the drawings and notes have been properly archived this second go around.
Man i wish i were there for the 150th anniversary 😭
I miss the beautiful days of steam
Wonderful, well done video!
Should have shown lighting the fire for the first time.
Burning wood or coal? Hopefully not oil.
Thank you.
I had to leave the building when at 3:00 the guy says "we had to develop a micrometer that would work with a caliper"
Yea right. What they needed and simply did (as he shows) was to scale the photos.
I want one
I think I still have this vhs tape.
I wish both Locomotives were used in The Lone Ranger movie.
I don't think the NPS would approve of what happens to the Jupiter in that film...
I would’ve never guessed the pilot was made out of wood
nice movie with happyend.
Up 844 clips from tv shows
Check out TRAINS magazine for a supplemental list of railroad museums. Some may be open after the current problems.
Yus my son Jupiter
Gotta love that cinder catcher on the stack.
@@spikespa5208 Indeed, gives it real character!
Nice
Is Ward Kimball the father of the legendary Photographer Art Kimball ?
What were the changes for the Central Pacific Jupiter and the Union Pacific 119?