Eren blushed on the train in front of all of his friends. This actually shows Eren had romantic feelings for every single member of his group. Historia blushes when she was laughing and talking to Mikasa in the flashback during the rumbling arc. This actually shows Historia had romantic feelings towards Mikasa. This all makes sense and I think we can now agree 139 is peak…
what an absolutely confusing guy calls himself a yeagerist despite defending the ending/alliance says he was an erehisu fan yet is constantly talking about eremika even when its not relevant wears a suit to an anime debate and tries to make it professional yet he experiences more interruptions then all the previous debaters combined defends the ending yet doesn't think it was really good what tf is he on? XD
This is so frustrating because it seems like Beluga doesn't understand the point Saint is trying to make. I'll use an analogy. Writing can be described as a sandwich, an idea is introduced, a slice of bread, then it is improved upon, reintroduced, and developed: toppings, like lettuce, ham, and cheese. Then, finally, it's topped with another slice of bread. This final layer can be different than the one initially introduced, but the toppings inform it, give it legs to stand on: weight. Creating this structure and developing relationships, concepts, regrets, and wants is necessary for great writing. In the case of Mikasa and Eren's romantic relationship, it stands flimsy. It's not a sandwich Isayama meticulously created, but a lone piece of bread. The final layer with absolutely no support. While Eren' feelings towards his friends are well developed, his romantic relationship with Mikasa has zero development (or even an introduction). Their "relationship" is indistinguishable and arguably even less important than the friendships Eren has with other characters. The only piece of evidence Eremika's have is the scarf scene from ch.50. But this scene is indistinguishable from Historia saving Eren in ch.66. If Mikasa's speech has such an impact on Eren, why does Eren still have those same insecurities and doubts 16 chapters later? If anything, Eren has deteriorated further, wishing for his life to never have existed, urging Historia to take the Founder, and his life. Not only that, but this underdeveloped concept, Mikasa and Eren's relationship, is the crux for other critical pieces to the story of ch.139. Ymir loving Fritz, Eren's 80% plan, etc. These other plot points are unsubstantiated, unsupported, and even contradictory to previously established ideas. That is why ch.139 is a retcon.
1:50:40 beluga saying that eren is blaming himself for not being with Mikasa by letting himself die. This point is stupid because of following reasons: 1. Beluga has ignored why eren is dying. He chose to die because to free ymir and make his friends heroes. He should not be dying because he loves Mikasa but instead wish to be alive to be with Mikasa 2. The point beluga is making is that since eren regrets rumbling its the same as grisha regretting for not being good to Zeke. But beluga forgets that eren regretting for rumbling does not mean he loves Mikasa . He is saying that he will not be forgiven for killing the people not for leaving Mikasa. (Mikasa immediately forgives him btw) 3. His logic of comparing eren and grisha is stupid. Cause grisha crying is not whining and has more development behind . Eren whining that he doesn't want Mikasa to move on doesn't have any development. 4.Grisha is showing apology and regret while eren is whining because he isn't crying because that he wasnt with her and misses her, but instead he is crying because she will move on with some another man. (1:21:30 beluga dodges saints arguments and changes topic. He says that "we are going in circles". Which is not the case since he avoided the argument before too)
For anyone of you beluga defenders... You guys have to point out your reasons for arguments, you can't just say something is bad or stupid and leave it
Couldn’t have been better said. All the guy did was gaslight (somehow comparing Eren’s whining to Grisha showing regret towards Zeke), blatantly dodged Saint’s arguments, and asked the same questions when Saint already answered them. He’s the literal definition of AOT was a love story all along if he’s claiming that Eren died because he couldn’t be with Mikasa.
he himself said that he was a erehisu believer before the ending came out, so either he sucks at reading and understanding the deeper plot points of the story or Isayama Failed completely at making the ending logical. so either the ending is bad so he loses the debate or he shouldn't even be debating because clearly he dint have a good understanding of the story.
Eds be like: i know it's poor execution but the idea behind was good. Isayama could never write bad, his editors fault not his🤓 Tbh defending eremika while being an erehisu believer is a retcon in itself lol
A lot of EDs interpreted the story the same way as we did prior to 139. Ever since the ending they all suddenly have different interpretation from one another.
Saint thanks for standing strong for all this time. I don't know how you do it. Im almost convinced people saying this ending is good or is consistent with the story are trolling. How do you say eren wasn't counting on friendship when he literally trusted the fate of Paradis to Armins ability to be a "heroic" figure. Why would Armin being a hero matter if its just about them not being able to fight back? The story has told us time and time again that it doesn't matter if you want peace, freedom, or to be gentle. You can be all those things but if you are weak or unwilling to defend them you are at the mercy of the powerful.Eren and Armin in the last chapter are hoping that if the world see's that even with this overwhelming power to crush the world Armin and the gang stopped Eren who is fighting on their behalf instead for the sake of the world. Granting them a mercy they did not deserve from an overwhelming foe. Something we havent seen in their world before. Except when they started capturing the marleyans who were coming to spy. Armin saw those people change thats why he believes it's possible. that sentiment is what he was hoping established long term peace.Then Isayama in the same chapter makes it clear both of them are wrong
@OnlyfilesTell me where he didn't counter beluga arguments. It's called content creation boi. You can't just bring a paper and narrate shit....that's boring. Plus he made points while providing entertainment.
What was that even about? I don't remember the series ever addressing why he did that. Did he lose control? If so, then why and how? It makes no sense.
The Zeke/Grisha + Eren/Mikasa comparison was weird. Grisha literally says in chapters 87 and 88 that he was a bad father to Zeke. Eren never thinks ONCE about whether he has romantic feelings for Mikasa. But thanks Beluga and Saint. The debates are fun
It wasn’t weird the saint was saying that eren never showed affection for Mikafreak therefore it was a retcon. But grisha In 122 or (87 if you like that doesn’t show affection to me but that’s irrelevant) showed affection and Leonhart showed affection to Annie. None of those are labeled retcons so the question is what’s the difference between leonhart grisha and Eren. Because the principle if affection comes out of nowhere it’s a retcon can’t be used
@@belugatheyeagerist Sorry, maybe I don't remember the conversation you had very well. Leonhart's affection towards Annie isn't a retcon because he's introduced being caring towards Annie (begging her to come home). Grisha's affection towards Zeke isn't a retcon because we see how much he regrets his actions in 87/88, chapters that introduced Zeke and Grisha's relationship. We don't see the full picture of Grisha's neglect until around 114, but we already know he regrets it. So it's not a retcon for Grisha to hug his son, and finally apologise to him. It's not that showing affection is a retcon, but Eren's romantic feelings towards Mikasa are a retcon, which is how I was understanding Saint's argument, but maybe it got turned into 'showing affection' somewhere. In comparison to G/Z/L/A being introduced as caring for one another, Eren and Mikasa aren't introduced to be romantically into one another. Do they care for one another? I would say so, but it's not romantic. For some reason, Mikasa does develop romantic feelings for Eren. Her character's development is supposed to be that she sees she does more harm to Eren than good, and that he is ok without her. Something she realises in chapter 50, and she starts to back off. Eren comes to realise he's treated her unfairly due to his own insecurities and jealousy. He comes to learn that he can't resolve everything on his own, and sometimes he needs to rely on others. That's the development of their relationship, but it doesn't develop into something mutually romantic. Eren expresses early in the series that he wants Mikasa to go live her own life, to not join the Survey Corps. He expresses the same thing to her in 138. And then in 139, he says 'I don't want that!' That's a retcon. And I know 139 takes place in 131, but it's written and published and read after 138. Nowhere in the story has Eren expressed how much he wants Mikasa to depend on him, or how much he desperately wants Mikasa to remain at his side. I also don't think it's affectionate towards Mikasa for him to cry in some water about how he doesn't want her to be with another man. Eren and Mikasa are main characters, unlike Z/G/A/L, so the development of Eren's romantic love for Mikasa should be just as clear as Mikasa's romantic love for Eren. But it's not. Isayama recently said that he didn't want to focus on romance because it'd distract from the main plot of the story, yet romance IS the main plot of the story by the final 2 chapters. After the series ended, he said he always wanted Mikasa to be the centerpiece, yet her character played no great role in uprising or rts (and then the story swiftly changes perspectives). How can she be the centerpiece? 50+ chapters. It's bad writing. Mikasa's revealed role in 139 is also a retcon of what this series was about. Isayama often said that he was annoyed by Mikasa's overprotectiveness of Eren or felt sorry for her. He'd often said that Eren's relationship to her was like a son/mother, that it was like hikikomori, and their development would come from parting from one another. There's this weird confliction towards what Mikasa really is to Eren (are they siblings, are they just friends, are they romantic love interests), and isyma decides allllll the way at the very very end. Just like he suddenly decides Floch was in the 104th south division [retcon], or the colossal titan's transformation power is equivalent to a nuclear bomb [retcon]. Sorry that this is long. I'm not fast at getting to the point. And I get if what you're saying is that you felt like you were arguing about displays of affection, but this retcon imo is about Eren's romantic feelings towards Mikasa. You can be affectionate towards someone without it being romantic, as you've suggested by pointing out the parent/child dynamic. And Eren was soft towards a lot of people.
@@ghoulage dude thank you for noticing the Colossal titans power had been buffed not a lot people noticed that. I was watching season 1 episode 1 and I was thinking how the hell is the wall still standing were bertolt transformed? A nuke just when off a large portion of the wall should be blown off exposing the titians underneath. Ya know but plot right that reveal couldn't happen so early.
@@belugatheyeagerist feeling remorse for mistreating your child is normal behavior though? grisha's treatment towards zeke was never from a place of "hate" or "lack of affection," but rather his restoration ideals blinding him to the importance of proper parenting. probably doesn't help that grisha's own father wasn't the best parent. once grisha reevaluates his values and actually experiences raising a child properly, he feels regret for everything he did to zeke. this is like comparing apples to oranges
It’s always been obvious what happened with the trio of Eren/Mikasa/Historia to me. Isayama admits that he frequents forums to check feedback of his story and also has editors that try and lead him to the more populist opinions at a certain point in the show’s run. So after the big reveal that Historia asked Eren is she should have a child everyone knew they were endgame and the Eren/Mikasa Warshippers lost their minds. For the next year or so the huge backlash for the story was mostly how fans were done with the series or just upset with their favorite ship not being endgame and the Eren/Historia fans were excited but their side got back into the story quick as hell. Another big gripe with the story was how robotic and one note Mikasa was and how pathetic she is to just stay loyal to a man that couldn’t care less about her beyond a friendship level. So the change fixes two gripes. Basically I’m arguing that whichever ship was hinted at during that time woulda been snuffed out no matter what. He bowed out of the whole pregnancy angle just to appease the vocal part of the fandom that was annoying and thats one huge reason the last few chapter’s tone seems so out of left field. Now people might argue that the scene where Eren asks Mikasa what he is to her was around the same time but that moment didn’t do anything to discourage Eren/Historia since their plot line was still unsettled. During the time Historia asked him about the baby Mikasa had been completely lest behind by the story and the only thing left with her arc was whether or not she sniffs that dirty ass scarf again.
It's possible , I had a friend that was retarded [not joking he was actually retarded due to a brain abnormality] , beluga has alot of the same mannerisms as he does. The odd mouth movements at times , odd speech patterns. I see some similarities. I'm not joking I think this guy might actually be slow.
@@erenyeager9371 beluga was dressed appropriately. Bro woke up. Said "saints debate is today let me iron my tux" and looked snazzy. His dumb points are slightly nullified from his drip
Saint won this by default because Beluga argues or blurs definition of the question instead of the point. For example, the point is "Eren whining is out of character and is a retcon". Instead of tackling the point itself he argues "what is whining" or "that is not whining" which implies that he inherently agrees that whiny Eren is out of character but does not agree that Eren is whining. The problem with this is most of people will agree it's whining because.. common sense. Another is the Lelouch debate. He again used the same method by saying Eren's plan is not the same as Lelouch's plan. First of all, why does both debaters say that pulling a Lelouch is unity through Friendship and Magic? That's an oversimplification and they made it sound that no blood was shed in Code Geass. I really wished Saint argued that Code Geas was just not Sunshine and Rainbows. It also had Lelouch making cold blooded political and unethical actions but the main gist of it is uniting the people through a common threat(also used by Ozymandias in Watchmen) which Eren definitely tried to do whether he succeeded or not is irrelevant. In summary, Beluga does not answer the retcon question with a yes or no but instead with a "what is a retcon anyway?"
I’ve watched a lot debates lately and this is a common tactic used by a debater when they have to defend a position that’s consider absurd by many. Rather than engaging directly at the points, they will try to wiggle around, uppercutting the argument. For example I’ve hear stuff like what is morality, is it objective or subjective in your viewpoint, what is ethics, what is murder?
@Eren Yeager Yes. This works on a courtroom because of legal loopholes and other technical jargons but in a debate about fiction then that's just means you have no real arguments against said points. Arguing semantics about fiction is an automatic L for me.
@@tropicalsalad1836 beluga defender: but he was making good points all along . 1:52:30 He proved eren is not a retcon by proving that he is just badly written🤓
I will say this idiot Beluga at least did tried to stay on topic unlike Sash who was freaking ridiculous. Sash has some of the strangest insight and interpretation of AOT. He throws in a lot of big philosophy words and I can tell that’s what he was trying to do with Saint during their debate. Normally in anime community, no one is really an expert on those field so he was hoping to catch them off guard.
I don't get it. What would the AOE do to improve the series overall? It practically went bad after the alliance was formed. Levi and gang forgiving Annie was bad writing.
@@asuraspath2262 because that is merely a few chapters in the long run I mean whatever Saint says if you look back at his 138 reaction he actually really enjoyed the chapter until the end And looking back the Alliance chapters aren't terrible We only think that because they're wrong in their ideals(besides chapter 126/episode 24 which in general sucks) Eren is the focal point of AOE which is why it'll be fantastic Maybe the calm before the storm will be a little weak...but the storm will come
@@paulwatson5083 Because 138 wasn't bad as a stand alone. That won't forgive the amount of BS that happened after the alliance was formed though. It is living in a delusional reality if you think Annie being forgiven is peak writing lol. The plot armour around the alliance in itself was horrid as well. AOE will only save Eren's character, but it won't save the story or have the alliance be remotely consistent.
Idgaf who won. Cause honestly, I'll always favour the one hating the ending. Why can't they use screen capture to show chapter evidence on their screen? Are they not using Discord? Seriously
@@belugatheyeagerist dw bro, I was following with the manga on another monitor. I just wanted people on ANY of these debates to show chapters and panels.
Grisha was too consumed by his goals and ended up treating his son in an inhumane way. He was only forced to confront how his actions were effecting his son when everything went wrong. Then he realized how his actions were harming his own child, and because of this he made the effort to not do it again on his second child. Basically: Grisha being hard on zeke = zeke sad. Grisha no want zeke sad. Grisha changes Eren had no such catalyst to realize how he’s been treating Mikasa wrong. It’s just terrible writing compared to Grisha. Not to mention the scene where he “realizes what he’s done wrong” is him complaining about how he doesn’t want her to move on and be happy in life with another man. Please. The two aren’t comparable. Eren not confessing to Mikasa (?) = Mikasa sad (?). Eren realizes this off screen and decides to let himself die to prove his regret (???). What is happening.
usually clown ending defenders but shout out beluga fr he articulated and spoke like a real gentleman and had that 💧 ,a lot of valid points unlike most ending defenders still think it was retconned but not as much as I thought it was,well done beluga nothing but respect for the man 👊🏾
Bet you thought I wouldn’t see this haha. Yes I try very hard to present good arguments that are formulated well I don’t know if you noticed but I had my opening statement written out prior. So that I could revise and whatnot
Why is this dude constantly trying to justify Eren whining by comparing it to Grisha crying after seeing Zeke and realizing how badly he treated him. There is absolutely zero context between the two scenes other than they are men crying because of something.
EREN and Mikasa does not have a romantic relationship, it is more like a brother sister relationship...If you look closely he does not blush while saying it to Armin. Something tells me that chapter 135-139 was written by chatgpt technology, where everything makes no sence and deserves to be criticized. lets dissect that glorious panel: (I don't want that--- ok fine maybe eren has something on his mind , something is disturbing his mind ,completely understandable. I don't want her to find another guy--- here is where it gets a little interesting, the reader might question what the heck is going on? ofcourse it is surprising to see this development, maybe he is saying this to reveal something really major about the curse of Ymir ,the coordinate something like that bla bla bla, there has to be a reason for this the next two statements --- this needs a little bit of explanation , because over here the entire story collapses.) This panel is bullshit ,everyone knows that, eren ran out of options , the real thing is eren has no options ,he just goes with the flow the real argument from EREN should be , the PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE all 3 coinciding together to give me the power of instinct. He is being controlled by someone else? no the reality is he is not but at the same time you can't argue with EREN, that he is the chosen one and can never die even after his death ,that should have been the selling point ,the main focus of the last chapter .But the goddamn fans of AOT are more bothered about the ships than the real mystery of the story. The only logic is EREN. It is similar to BRAN , but the DIALOGUE should be on point with the character. In other Words EREN transcends space time. The only crazy thing about the last chapter is the past present and future bit . NOW how to execute this in the anime. JUST like how it is in the BIBLE where people look at revelations and realize that no matter what EREN does he just wins any argument. In simple language EREN is the creator of his own story. EREN is not actually dead here, that is a mis understanding by the readers. He is a force in his own story. he is bran but on another level, not john snow. So how to explain this? GET RELIGION, for that the music and foreshadowing has to be very story in the execution of the last chapter in animation format ruclips.net/video/yWvQ_X2sqqE/видео.html If Bran says he can see everything ,then EREN should say the past present and future all coexisting at the same time.The real founder is EREN, that's it. Armin represents the wise men that is why his reaction is very normal , but in the anime how will you show this??? The best way is You foreshadow all the events that claim him to be the chosen one. In Eren's case it will work way better than bran.. reason ,eren was optionless ,so eren has to show his evil side to make sence
Hi saintichief, I know my comment may be late, I just want to say that I am a huge AOT but I always had mixed feelings about the ending, in honesty I didn't really read through the chapter 139 I mostly watched the anime but I did spoil myself a lot, and I got curious I decided to keep an open mind and hear out those AOT fans who didn't like the ending, and I found your channel. I must say that ya'll have valid statements and arguements as to why the AOT ending was bad, I cannot disregard nor invalidate your conclusions and I don't think Isayama could either. I myself is disappointed but I accepted it, it is what it is at the end of the day. But I just want to say that to me, it looks like Isayama did not write the 139 chapter because of the inconsistencies, either he wrote it and rushed it and didn't think it through or his editors influenced him to write the ending that way as a fan service or both, but that's just my theory. I always thought that Armin and Mikasa are my favorite characters, like in my eyes Armin was like gentleman, like he's the perfect guy, to me he's like an angel, he's smart and kind hearted, he did some terrible things but his ultimate goal is peace but after hearing you out and watching your videos, I realized I was a fool for thinking that. Armin is definitely flawed, I don't know why I thought otherwise, him and Mikasa are def flawed. Now I don't know what to think, I don't think I will see them the same as before. Hange, I liked her before, now I just see her as foolish and naive for thinking that they can try and find ways to make peace after they stop the rumbling. And to think that Hange is one of the smartest characters in AOT, probably even smarter than Armin, but after she became the commander of the survey corps she was just a disappointment. The main goal of the survey corpse is to gain freedom and peace for the people of Paradis and she just went against that when she started with this Alliance thing. But like I said I've accepted it, I've been blind and I'm not happy about it but I have accepted it.
but in case of got where did it go wrong?? lack of mysterious music and foreshadowing, that punch and belief was not there, in other words you must feel eren's presence in everyone else. BUT THE ISSUE IS HOW THE HELL DO YOU SHOW THIS?? SIMPLE its there in how they show in mahabharat, just use the same logic with the correct execution
Bro you cooked dude made up a scenario for leverage 😂 then had to come to an agreement idk how any OG AOT fan could defend the ending Eren became a whining simp in the blink of an eye we wanted Mikasa and Eren to be together but there was no indication he wanted that then Historia came and furthered the gap 😂 anyway RIP Eren everyone failed you and you became the biggest failure
I am not going to explain much, i hope you understood the light. EREN wanted to do everything, but he ends up doing nothing, how is that possible that itself makes no sense. THAT IS WHY HE IS 0(Light) and also JESUS(situation)but in the form of left and right hand. GO back to episode 5. EREN's left hand was eaten by a SANTA CLAUS titan(which means christmas, christ second coming). In Japanese culture it is just the opposite. And then in the MARLEY ARC "EREN" uses his right hand to explain the causes of war that happened 2000 years ago. And at the moment i am typing this i am sure my son who was crucified 2000 years ago at this very moment, whom you people go to church to worship the sign of the CROSS. At that very instance BARNABUS was set free to complete my mission and go to THAT time India and other parts of the world. THE sacrifise is the present me who is typing this now. HE went everywhere and then finally reached THOSE DAYS INDIA. AFTER THAT something marvelous happened BARNABUS and someone joined forces and that is when BARNABUS said something and completed my mission and then i just had to wait for me to come in the year 2022 when my memories returned and finally the complete transfiguration happened on 13 MARCH 2023. Which also means that EREN not only manipulated his Father Grisha but also cured all the curses of the past but in the process MAKING HIM the REAL GOD of the STORY
When Eren asked to be eaten for what his dad did he was saying " I never needed to happen" and then he said " let me believe in myself" the point of that scene was that he wanted to die. It wasn't selfless and sacrificial, it was suicidal.
@@saintitchief when historia questions Eren on why he's just gonna let her eat him he first responds by saying "it never needed to happen" but after lamenting that his dreams of what was beyond the walls never needed to happen he laments that he never needed to happen the I being emphasized in the manga. He then says "at the very least I want you to end it all for me" meaning even if the powers didn't get transferred he still wants to die. He states when historia when historia tries to save him "you're part of the chosen bloodline! I'm not! There's nothing special about me! It's bad for everyone if I keep living!" And " I can't keep living like this" He also says "I'm useless I always have been from the very beginning" and " I was never humanity's greatest hope" then he says " I'm sorry I want you to let me believe in myself just this once" throughout the scene he least to me he seems primarily focused on himself and who he is rather than humanities survival even after historia starts questioning rod on why they never fought back when the had the founder Eren still wants to die. He doesn't really care about if it's for the greater good it's more about his own insecurity and hero complex. I hope that cleared up why I would think that.
@@jonathonwild7350 I get why you think of it that way but I don’t. I see it as Eren being overdramatic, but its rooted in sincere regret for what his father did. Its got nothing to do with the fact that he isn’t a chosen one.
Lol, he was all over the place. One time he says that he cares for his friends, the other time he cares for freedom and then all of a sudden he cares for Mikasa's hole.
@@slayer6225 eren saying he cares about his friends doesnt mean anyhting if he doesnt actually do anything about it. Time and time again he put his friends in a position wich could have gotten them killed, and guess what that is how sasha and hange died. Actions speak louder than words. He may care for his friends but defenitely not more than his goals.
Both of you are wrong GAY OE is real. Saint is just hurt and doesn't want to be hurt again, which is understandable. Aot borrows from Norse mythology A LOT!! Eren controlling birds cmon ODIN does that. The paths Tree that's Ygdrassil, Nine titans ? 9 realms CMON!!
I keep listening that the ending "ruined" and "retconned" everything set up before, but the fact that I've seen just as much defense for it, and the lack of multidimensionality of some of those who claim that the ending "ruined" everything set up (not that those who like the ending can't also lack that multidimensionality) before leads me to believe that they didn't process much of what was "before". I'm also more inclined to believe that there was intent behind the ending, meaning that the story would have had to be "ruined" for quite some chapters before, meaning that those who claim the ending ruined the story are more likely to not have been paying attention.
Then it shouldnt be hard to defend it. But every big ending defender has a different theory which are in most cases contradictory to each other. If the ending wasnt retconed it shouldnt be that hard to defend it.
You understand that it is a good thing that ending haters all have the same criticism towards the ending? It means that they all see the same flaws for the same reasons. Ending defenders on the other hand always bring up new and different points (often times even contradictory to what other ending defenders say) because they all understood the story differently. A story is not good when everyone understands it differently and comes up with own explanations to explain away criticism.
Well.. for me chapter 130 is the chapter that officially killed the story and made it a joke. The moment Mikasa rubbed Annie’s back. However, while the story was totally destroyed by then, Eren was still safe. Eren was the shining beacon of hope, because if his character had a solid conclusion, it could potentially have been so well done that it could have carried the story. A great character, especially a great main character, can carry an awful story. Eren certainly had the potential to. But then his character was completely annihilated in every conceivable way in 139. Every single thing that made that character great was ripped to shreds, leaving nothing but a pathetic husk behind. So yeah, I’ll agree that the story itself was comprised long before 139, Eren was not.
@@gogeta_lp Like I said, it isn't like ending defenders can't be contradictory. But the fact that many who claim that the ending "ruined" everything "before" have the exact same reason (which seems like a case of lack of attention or selective reading) which either is clearly explained or has already been established.
@@saintitchief Fair enough if you don't like the direction the story takes way before the ending. Though I can't disagree more with the ch 130 thing, seriously can't see anything series busting there, it was all pretty solid.
Saint did not win this. There have been a few debates in the past where I can't understand how people say he won, but his only true Ws here was 'being better at being argumentative...' and having functional equipment. Beluga had better arguments, more varied evidence that supported his points and like...logic. and an ability to absorb the information his opponent was presenting. Debating Saint is literally like debating a fucking wall. But fuck is it entertaining to laugh at. I feel bad for Beluga and the like, they will never get that man to process information outside of what he's already decided is reality. He either doesn't want to or genuinely can not do it. I applaud the effort and appreciate the entertainment tho. 👏🏾 👏🏾 Side note: that moment where Saint clearly tried to hide that he knew shit all about Teddy Roosevelt 😂
@saintitchief this time around? My example would be this entire debate. You didn't do well. I'm sure you're aware of that. Squirmin' around, cackling and grinning like an overstimulated 11 year old, screeching out the same argument that has been rebutted 4x already, refusing to/failing to grasp every point. No wonder you feel like you're an expert on whining; you, yourself are a goddam professional. Tldr; to give you an example, would be to transcribe the entirety of this debate. Sans the technical difficulties
Thanks for saying I did good in the debates. No need to feel bad for me it was fun debating saint and his was nice and respectful. I just wish I had my mod
By saying that saints points can be debunked easily. You have accepted that they weren't debunked by beluga.(otherwise "beluga has debunked saints points" would be the correct statement and your english is poor if that's the case )
@@asuraspath2262 are u serious? Saint is the one here with headcanons,most importantly his interpretation of ch131 is completely wrong and he knows it,yet still refuses to change it,i argued with him on Twitter and he was like "i know my interpretation is wrong but the story is dog shit"
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](/img/1.gif)
Eren blushed on the train in front of all of his friends. This actually shows Eren had romantic feelings for every single member of his group. Historia blushes when she was laughing and talking to Mikasa in the flashback during the rumbling arc. This actually shows Historia had romantic feelings towards Mikasa. This all makes sense and I think we can now agree 139 is peak…
(true)
what an absolutely confusing guy
calls himself a yeagerist despite defending the ending/alliance
says he was an erehisu fan yet is constantly talking about eremika even when its not relevant
wears a suit to an anime debate and tries to make it professional yet he experiences more interruptions then all the previous debaters combined
defends the ending yet doesn't think it was really good
what tf is he on? XD
This is so frustrating because it seems like Beluga doesn't understand the point Saint is trying to make. I'll use an analogy. Writing can be described as a sandwich, an idea is introduced, a slice of bread, then it is improved upon, reintroduced, and developed: toppings, like lettuce, ham, and cheese. Then, finally, it's topped with another slice of bread. This final layer can be different than the one initially introduced, but the toppings inform it, give it legs to stand on: weight. Creating this structure and developing relationships, concepts, regrets, and wants is necessary for great writing. In the case of Mikasa and Eren's romantic relationship, it stands flimsy. It's not a sandwich Isayama meticulously created, but a lone piece of bread. The final layer with absolutely no support. While Eren' feelings towards his friends are well developed, his romantic relationship with Mikasa has zero development (or even an introduction). Their "relationship" is indistinguishable and arguably even less important than the friendships Eren has with other characters. The only piece of evidence Eremika's have is the scarf scene from ch.50. But this scene is indistinguishable from Historia saving Eren in ch.66. If Mikasa's speech has such an impact on Eren, why does Eren still have those same insecurities and doubts 16 chapters later? If anything, Eren has deteriorated further, wishing for his life to never have existed, urging Historia to take the Founder, and his life.
Not only that, but this underdeveloped concept, Mikasa and Eren's relationship, is the crux for other critical pieces to the story of ch.139. Ymir loving Fritz, Eren's 80% plan, etc. These other plot points are unsubstantiated, unsupported, and even contradictory to previously established ideas. That is why ch.139 is a retcon.
Bro treating it like he in court or sum 😂
Beluga like every ending defenders make no sense trying to compare erens crying to Grisha
Saint won this
1:50:40 beluga saying that eren is blaming himself for not being with Mikasa by letting himself die.
This point is stupid because of following reasons:
1. Beluga has ignored why eren is dying. He chose to die because to free ymir and make his friends heroes.
He should not be dying because he loves Mikasa but instead wish to be alive to be with Mikasa
2. The point beluga is making is that since eren regrets rumbling its the same as grisha regretting for not being good to Zeke. But beluga forgets that eren regretting for rumbling does not mean he loves Mikasa . He is saying that he will not be forgiven for killing the people not for leaving Mikasa. (Mikasa immediately forgives him btw)
3. His logic of comparing eren and grisha is stupid. Cause grisha crying is not whining and has more development behind .
Eren whining that he doesn't want Mikasa to move on doesn't have any development.
4.Grisha is showing apology and regret while eren is whining because he isn't crying because that he wasnt with her and misses her, but instead he is crying because she will move on with some another man.
(1:21:30 beluga dodges saints arguments and changes topic. He says that "we are going in circles".
Which is not the case since he avoided the argument before too)
For anyone of you beluga defenders... You guys have to point out your reasons for arguments, you can't just say something is bad or stupid and leave it
Couldn’t have been better said. All the guy did was gaslight (somehow comparing Eren’s whining to Grisha showing regret towards Zeke), blatantly dodged Saint’s arguments, and asked the same questions when Saint already answered them.
He’s the literal definition of AOT was a love story all along if he’s claiming that Eren died because he couldn’t be with Mikasa.
he himself said that he was a erehisu believer before the ending came out, so either he sucks at reading and understanding the deeper plot points of the story or Isayama Failed completely at making the ending logical. so either the ending is bad so he loses the debate or he shouldn't even be debating because clearly he dint have a good understanding of the story.
Eds be like: i know it's poor execution but the idea behind was good. Isayama could never write bad, his editors fault not his🤓
Tbh defending eremika while being an erehisu believer is a retcon in itself lol
A lot of EDs interpreted the story the same way as we did prior to 139. Ever since the ending they all suddenly have different interpretation from one another.
Saint thanks for standing strong for all this time. I don't know how you do it. Im almost convinced people saying this ending is good or is consistent with the story are trolling. How do you say eren wasn't counting on friendship when he literally trusted the fate of Paradis to Armins ability to be a "heroic" figure. Why would Armin being a hero matter if its just about them not being able to fight back? The story has told us time and time again that it doesn't matter if you want peace, freedom, or to be gentle. You can be all those things but if you are weak or unwilling to defend them you are at the mercy of the powerful.Eren and Armin in the last chapter are hoping that if the world see's that even with this overwhelming power to crush the world Armin and the gang stopped Eren who is fighting on their behalf instead for the sake of the world. Granting them a mercy they did not deserve from an overwhelming foe. Something we havent seen in their world before. Except when they started capturing the marleyans who were coming to spy. Armin saw those people change thats why he believes it's possible. that sentiment is what he was hoping established long term peace.Then Isayama in the same chapter makes it clear both of them are wrong
1:36:20 Saint’s glorious reenactment of simp Eren 😂😂😂
Saint clearly won, beluga was all over the place
@OnlyfilesTell me where he didn't counter beluga arguments.
It's called content creation boi. You can't just bring a paper and narrate shit....that's boring. Plus he made points while providing entertainment.
The dickriding is insane
He really love mikasa when he tried to punch her to death then he became a titan in earlier season
What was that even about? I don't remember the series ever addressing why he did that. Did he lose control? If so, then why and how? It makes no sense.
The Zeke/Grisha + Eren/Mikasa comparison was weird. Grisha literally says in chapters 87 and 88 that he was a bad father to Zeke. Eren never thinks ONCE about whether he has romantic feelings for Mikasa.
But thanks Beluga and Saint. The debates are fun
It wasn’t weird the saint was saying that eren never showed affection for Mikafreak therefore it was a retcon. But grisha In 122 or (87 if you like that doesn’t show affection to me but that’s irrelevant) showed affection and Leonhart showed affection to Annie. None of those are labeled retcons so the question is what’s the difference between leonhart grisha and Eren. Because the principle if affection comes out of nowhere it’s a retcon can’t be used
@@belugatheyeagerist Sorry, maybe I don't remember the conversation you had very well.
Leonhart's affection towards Annie isn't a retcon because he's introduced being caring towards Annie (begging her to come home).
Grisha's affection towards Zeke isn't a retcon because we see how much he regrets his actions in 87/88, chapters that introduced Zeke and Grisha's relationship. We don't see the full picture of Grisha's neglect until around 114, but we already know he regrets it. So it's not a retcon for Grisha to hug his son, and finally apologise to him.
It's not that showing affection is a retcon, but Eren's romantic feelings towards Mikasa are a retcon, which is how I was understanding Saint's argument, but maybe it got turned into 'showing affection' somewhere.
In comparison to G/Z/L/A being introduced as caring for one another, Eren and Mikasa aren't introduced to be romantically into one another. Do they care for one another? I would say so, but it's not romantic. For some reason, Mikasa does develop romantic feelings for Eren. Her character's development is supposed to be that she sees she does more harm to Eren than good, and that he is ok without her. Something she realises in chapter 50, and she starts to back off. Eren comes to realise he's treated her unfairly due to his own insecurities and jealousy. He comes to learn that he can't resolve everything on his own, and sometimes he needs to rely on others.
That's the development of their relationship, but it doesn't develop into something mutually romantic.
Eren expresses early in the series that he wants Mikasa to go live her own life, to not join the Survey Corps. He expresses the same thing to her in 138. And then in 139, he says 'I don't want that!' That's a retcon. And I know 139 takes place in 131, but it's written and published and read after 138. Nowhere in the story has Eren expressed how much he wants Mikasa to depend on him, or how much he desperately wants Mikasa to remain at his side.
I also don't think it's affectionate towards Mikasa for him to cry in some water about how he doesn't want her to be with another man.
Eren and Mikasa are main characters, unlike Z/G/A/L, so the development of Eren's romantic love for Mikasa should be just as clear as Mikasa's romantic love for Eren. But it's not. Isayama recently said that he didn't want to focus on romance because it'd distract from the main plot of the story, yet romance IS the main plot of the story by the final 2 chapters. After the series ended, he said he always wanted Mikasa to be the centerpiece, yet her character played no great role in uprising or rts (and then the story swiftly changes perspectives). How can she be the centerpiece? 50+ chapters. It's bad writing. Mikasa's revealed role in 139 is also a retcon of what this series was about.
Isayama often said that he was annoyed by Mikasa's overprotectiveness of Eren or felt sorry for her. He'd often said that Eren's relationship to her was like a son/mother, that it was like hikikomori, and their development would come from parting from one another. There's this weird confliction towards what Mikasa really is to Eren (are they siblings, are they just friends, are they romantic love interests), and isyma decides allllll the way at the very very end. Just like he suddenly decides Floch was in the 104th south division [retcon], or the colossal titan's transformation power is equivalent to a nuclear bomb [retcon].
Sorry that this is long. I'm not fast at getting to the point. And I get if what you're saying is that you felt like you were arguing about displays of affection, but this retcon imo is about Eren's romantic feelings towards Mikasa. You can be affectionate towards someone without it being romantic, as you've suggested by pointing out the parent/child dynamic. And Eren was soft towards a lot of people.
@@ghoulage ill read this btw just not now lol.
@@ghoulage dude thank you for noticing the Colossal titans power had been buffed not a lot people noticed that. I was watching season 1 episode 1 and I was thinking how the hell is the wall still standing were bertolt transformed? A nuke just when off a large portion of the wall should be blown off exposing the titians underneath. Ya know but plot right that reveal couldn't happen so early.
@@belugatheyeagerist feeling remorse for mistreating your child is normal behavior though?
grisha's treatment towards zeke was never from a place of "hate" or "lack of affection," but rather his restoration ideals blinding him to the importance of proper parenting. probably doesn't help that grisha's own father wasn't the best parent.
once grisha reevaluates his values and actually experiences raising a child properly, he feels regret for everything he did to zeke.
this is like comparing apples to oranges
Without exaggeration , Saint is a really smart guy
Man, I sometimes really feel bad for Saint in these debates. It's equivalent to smashing your head on a wall.
He dodges questions like crazy.
It’s always been obvious what happened with the trio of Eren/Mikasa/Historia to me. Isayama admits that he frequents forums to check feedback of his story and also has editors that try and lead him to the more populist opinions at a certain point in the show’s run. So after the big reveal that Historia asked Eren is she should have a child everyone knew they were endgame and the Eren/Mikasa Warshippers lost their minds. For the next year or so the huge backlash for the story was mostly how fans were done with the series or just upset with their favorite ship not being endgame and the Eren/Historia fans were excited but their side got back into the story quick as hell. Another big gripe with the story was how robotic and one note Mikasa was and how pathetic she is to just stay loyal to a man that couldn’t care less about her beyond a friendship level. So the change fixes two gripes.
Basically I’m arguing that whichever ship was hinted at during that time woulda been snuffed out no matter what. He bowed out of the whole pregnancy angle just to appease the vocal part of the fandom that was annoying and thats one huge reason the last few chapter’s tone seems so out of left field. Now people might argue that the scene where Eren asks Mikasa what he is to her was around the same time but that moment didn’t do anything to discourage Eren/Historia since their plot line was still unsettled. During the time Historia asked him about the baby Mikasa had been completely lest behind by the story and the only thing left with her arc was whether or not she sniffs that dirty ass scarf again.
Is beluga slow..sheesh made me lose braincells
It's possible , I had a friend that was retarded [not joking he was actually retarded due to a brain abnormality] , beluga has alot of the same mannerisms as he does. The odd mouth movements at times , odd speech patterns. I see some similarities. I'm not joking I think this guy might actually be slow.
30:15 The amount of people who admit to starting Attack on Titan and binging it before season 4 started is insane.
Beluga had more drip which gave him an automatic W
What do you mean?
@@erenyeager9371 beluga was dressed appropriately. Bro woke up. Said "saints debate is today let me iron my tux" and looked snazzy. His dumb points are slightly nullified from his drip
I agree
Beluga couldn't even fix his camera haha. Man was all over the place. He was more lost than Zoro.
@@JojoSmacks that's not how debates work you fool
Saint won this by default because Beluga argues or blurs definition of the question instead of the point. For example, the point is "Eren whining is out of character and is a retcon". Instead of tackling the point itself he argues "what is whining" or "that is not whining" which implies that he inherently agrees that whiny Eren is out of character but does not agree that Eren is whining. The problem with this is most of people will agree it's whining because.. common sense. Another is the Lelouch debate. He again used the same method by saying Eren's plan is not the same as Lelouch's plan. First of all, why does both debaters say that pulling a Lelouch is unity through Friendship and Magic? That's an oversimplification and they made it sound that no blood was shed in Code Geass. I really wished Saint argued that Code Geas was just not Sunshine and Rainbows. It also had Lelouch making cold blooded political and unethical actions but the main gist of it is uniting the people through a common threat(also used by Ozymandias in Watchmen) which Eren definitely tried to do whether he succeeded or not is irrelevant.
In summary, Beluga does not answer the retcon question with a yes or no but instead with a "what is a retcon anyway?"
I’ve watched a lot debates lately and this is a common tactic used by a debater when they have to defend a position that’s consider absurd by many. Rather than engaging directly at the points, they will try to wiggle around, uppercutting the argument. For example I’ve hear stuff like what is morality, is it objective or subjective in your viewpoint, what is ethics, what is murder?
@Eren Yeager Yes. This works on a courtroom because of legal loopholes and other technical jargons but in a debate about fiction then that's just means you have no real arguments against said points. Arguing semantics about fiction is an automatic L for me.
@@tropicalsalad1836 beluga defender: but he was making good points all along .
1:52:30 He proved eren is not a retcon by proving that he is just badly written🤓
I will say this idiot Beluga at least did tried to stay on topic unlike Sash who was freaking ridiculous. Sash has some of the strangest insight and interpretation of AOT. He throws in a lot of big philosophy words and I can tell that’s what he was trying to do with Saint during their debate. Normally in anime community, no one is really an expert on those field so he was hoping to catch them off guard.
@@erenyeager9371can you please reply other AOT debates on youtube? I have yet to find others and i love videos like these!
Can't wait for AOE I'll be very honest
If only because seeing saint wrong..will be so worth it
literally
copium copium copium copium
I don't get it. What would the AOE do to improve the series overall? It practically went bad after the alliance was formed. Levi and gang forgiving Annie was bad writing.
@@asuraspath2262 because that is merely a few chapters in the long run
I mean whatever Saint says if you look back at his 138 reaction he actually really enjoyed the chapter until the end
And looking back the Alliance chapters aren't terrible
We only think that because they're wrong in their ideals(besides chapter 126/episode 24 which in general sucks)
Eren is the focal point of AOE which is why it'll be fantastic
Maybe the calm before the storm will be a little weak...but the storm will come
@@paulwatson5083 Because 138 wasn't bad as a stand alone. That won't forgive the amount of BS that happened after the alliance was formed though. It is living in a delusional reality if you think Annie being forgiven is peak writing lol. The plot armour around the alliance in itself was horrid as well.
AOE will only save Eren's character, but it won't save the story or have the alliance be remotely consistent.
Idgaf who won. Cause honestly, I'll always favour the one hating the ending.
Why can't they use screen capture to show chapter evidence on their screen? Are they not using Discord?
Seriously
I’ll send you the panels I had if you add me on discord
@@belugatheyeagerist dw bro, I was following with the manga on another monitor.
I just wanted people on ANY of these debates to show chapters and panels.
@@SerenityOceania I see. You making a video about this debate right?
Exactly, but the way how it should be shown should be in a MYSTERIOUS WAY
Grisha was too consumed by his goals and ended up treating his son in an inhumane way. He was only forced to confront how his actions were effecting his son when everything went wrong. Then he realized how his actions were harming his own child, and because of this he made the effort to not do it again on his second child. Basically: Grisha being hard on zeke = zeke sad. Grisha no want zeke sad. Grisha changes
Eren had no such catalyst to realize how he’s been treating Mikasa wrong. It’s just terrible writing compared to Grisha. Not to mention the scene where he “realizes what he’s done wrong” is him complaining about how he doesn’t want her to move on and be happy in life with another man. Please. The two aren’t comparable.
Eren not confessing to Mikasa (?) = Mikasa sad (?). Eren realizes this off screen and decides to let himself die to prove his regret (???). What is happening.
Saint won
Who do you think won?
Comment below.
you
@@kory.j6561 awww thanks, i guess i didnt retcon the story
@@JojoSmacks don't you dare, dirty retconer. I'm watching you.
usually clown ending defenders but shout out beluga fr he articulated and spoke like a real gentleman and had that 💧 ,a lot of valid points unlike most ending defenders still think it was retconned but not as much as I thought it was,well done beluga nothing but respect for the man 👊🏾
Bet you thought I wouldn’t see this haha. Yes I try very hard to present good arguments that are formulated well I don’t know if you noticed but I had my opening statement written out prior. So that I could revise and whatnot
Why the f his neighbor beating his door like that ?
His neighbor can smell a dumb ending defender from a mile away
Bro comparing grisha and zekes relationship to Erin and mikasa’s is crazy. They are the main characters!
Why is this dude constantly trying to justify Eren whining by comparing it to Grisha crying after seeing Zeke and realizing how badly he treated him. There is absolutely zero context between the two scenes other than they are men crying because of something.
I hope you are observing it
12:23 Enter the debate
EREN and Mikasa does not have a romantic relationship, it is more like a brother sister relationship...If you look closely he does not blush while saying it to Armin. Something tells me that chapter 135-139 was written by chatgpt technology, where everything makes no sence and deserves to be criticized.
lets dissect that glorious panel:
(I don't want that--- ok fine maybe eren has something on his mind , something is disturbing his mind ,completely understandable.
I don't want her to find another guy--- here is where it gets a little interesting, the reader might question what the heck is going on? ofcourse it is surprising to see this development, maybe he is saying this to reveal something really major about the curse of Ymir ,the coordinate something like that bla bla bla, there has to be a reason for this
the next two statements --- this needs a little bit of explanation , because over here the entire story collapses.)
This panel is bullshit ,everyone knows that, eren ran out of options , the real thing is eren has no options ,he just goes with the flow
the real argument from EREN should be , the PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE all 3 coinciding together to give me the power of instinct. He is being controlled by someone else? no the reality is he is not but at the same time you can't argue with EREN, that he is the chosen one and can never die even after his death ,that should have been the selling point ,the main focus of the last chapter .But the goddamn fans of AOT are more bothered about the ships than the real mystery of the story.
The only logic is EREN. It is similar to BRAN , but the DIALOGUE should be on point with the character. In other Words EREN transcends space time. The only crazy thing about the last chapter is the past present and future bit . NOW how to execute this in the anime. JUST like how it is in the BIBLE where people look at revelations and realize that no matter what EREN does he just wins any argument. In simple language EREN is the creator of his own story.
EREN is not actually dead here, that is a mis understanding by the readers. He is a force in his own story. he is bran but on another level, not john snow.
So how to explain this? GET RELIGION, for that the music and foreshadowing has to be very story in the execution of the last chapter in animation format
ruclips.net/video/yWvQ_X2sqqE/видео.html
If Bran says he can see everything ,then EREN should say the past present and future all coexisting at the same time.The real founder is EREN, that's it.
Armin represents the wise men that is why his reaction is very normal , but in the anime how will you show this???
The best way is You foreshadow all the events that claim him to be the chosen one.
In Eren's case it will work way better than bran.. reason ,eren was optionless ,so eren has to show his evil side to make sence
Hi saintichief, I know my comment may be late, I just want to say that I am a huge AOT but I always had mixed feelings about the ending, in honesty I didn't really read through the chapter 139 I mostly watched the anime but I did spoil myself a lot, and I got curious I decided to keep an open mind and hear out those AOT fans who didn't like the ending, and I found your channel. I must say that ya'll have valid statements and arguements as to why the AOT ending was bad, I cannot disregard nor invalidate your conclusions and I don't think Isayama could either. I myself is disappointed but I accepted it, it is what it is at the end of the day. But I just want to say that to me, it looks like Isayama did not write the 139 chapter because of the inconsistencies, either he wrote it and rushed it and didn't think it through or his editors influenced him to write the ending that way as a fan service or both, but that's just my theory. I always thought that Armin and Mikasa are my favorite characters, like in my eyes Armin was like gentleman, like he's the perfect guy, to me he's like an angel, he's smart and kind hearted, he did some terrible things but his ultimate goal is peace but after hearing you out and watching your videos, I realized I was a fool for thinking that. Armin is definitely flawed, I don't know why I thought otherwise, him and Mikasa are def flawed. Now I don't know what to think, I don't think I will see them the same as before. Hange, I liked her before, now I just see her as foolish and naive for thinking that they can try and find ways to make peace after they stop the rumbling. And to think that Hange is one of the smartest characters in AOT, probably even smarter than Armin, but after she became the commander of the survey corps she was just a disappointment. The main goal of the survey corpse is to gain freedom and peace for the people of Paradis and she just went against that when she started with this Alliance thing. But like I said I've accepted it, I've been blind and I'm not happy about it but I have accepted it.
No need to bully him. He was very polite.
but in case of got where did it go wrong?? lack of mysterious music and foreshadowing, that punch and belief was not there, in other words you must feel eren's presence in everyone else. BUT THE ISSUE IS HOW THE HELL DO YOU SHOW THIS?? SIMPLE its there in how they show in mahabharat, just use the same logic with the correct execution
Won't lie Saint killed this debate. In a good way. 💯
Bro you cooked dude made up a scenario for leverage 😂 then had to come to an agreement idk how any OG AOT fan could defend the ending Eren became a whining simp in the blink of an eye we wanted Mikasa and Eren to be together but there was no indication he wanted that then Historia came and furthered the gap 😂 anyway RIP Eren everyone failed you and you became the biggest failure
I am not going to explain much, i hope you understood the light. EREN wanted to do everything, but he ends up doing nothing, how is that possible that itself makes no sense. THAT IS WHY HE IS 0(Light) and also JESUS(situation)but in the form of left and right hand. GO back to episode 5. EREN's left hand was eaten by a SANTA CLAUS titan(which means christmas, christ second coming). In Japanese culture it is just the opposite. And then in the MARLEY ARC "EREN" uses his right hand to explain the causes of war that happened 2000 years ago. And at the moment i am typing this i am sure my son who was crucified 2000 years ago at this very moment, whom you people go to church to worship the sign of the CROSS. At that very instance BARNABUS was set free to complete my mission and go to THAT time India and other parts of the world. THE sacrifise is the present me who is typing this now. HE went everywhere and then finally reached THOSE DAYS INDIA. AFTER THAT something marvelous happened BARNABUS and someone joined forces and that is when BARNABUS said something and completed my mission and then i just had to wait for me to come in the year 2022 when my memories returned and finally the complete transfiguration happened on 13 MARCH 2023.
Which also means that EREN not only manipulated his Father Grisha but also cured all the curses of the past but in the process MAKING HIM the REAL GOD of the STORY
When Eren asked to be eaten for what his dad did he was saying " I never needed to happen" and then he said " let me believe in myself" the point of that scene was that he wanted to die. It wasn't selfless and sacrificial, it was suicidal.
ok but a selfish person would never even feel so badly about something like that to the point they would want to commit suicide
@@saintitchief I wouldn't say that I think Eren had like a hero complex and when he realized he wasn't the hero like he wanted to be he wanted to die
@@jonathonwild7350 dont get that interpretation
@@saintitchief when historia questions Eren on why he's just gonna let her eat him he first responds by saying "it never needed to happen" but after lamenting that his dreams of what was beyond the walls never needed to happen he laments that he never needed to happen the I being emphasized in the manga. He then says "at the very least I want you to end it all for me" meaning even if the powers didn't get transferred he still wants to die. He states when historia when historia tries to save him "you're part of the chosen bloodline! I'm not! There's nothing special about me! It's bad for everyone if I keep living!" And " I can't keep living like this"
He also says "I'm useless I always have been from the very beginning" and " I was never humanity's greatest hope" then he says " I'm sorry I want you to let me believe in myself just this once" throughout the scene he least to me he seems primarily focused on himself and who he is rather than humanities survival even after historia starts questioning rod on why they never fought back when the had the founder Eren still wants to die. He doesn't really care about if it's for the greater good it's more about his own insecurity and hero complex. I hope that cleared up why I would think that.
@@jonathonwild7350 I get why you think of it that way but I don’t. I see it as Eren being overdramatic, but its rooted in sincere regret for what his father did. Its got nothing to do with the fact that he isn’t a chosen one.
17:52 🤓☝️
1:01:00
54:44
1:41:00
Wow, all this for such a mind-numbingly boring show with a nonsensical plot that takes itself way too seriously.
whats this bullshit argument that eren cared about his friends bro that dude does not care about his friends
he does but he puts “freedom” first
"dude does not care about his friends" which story are you talking about? Because surely you haven't read AoT.
Guys the ending is really bad move on there Will be new animes and new TV shows
Lol, he was all over the place. One time he says that he cares for his friends, the other time he cares for freedom and then all of a sudden he cares for Mikasa's hole.
@@slayer6225 eren saying he cares about his friends doesnt mean anyhting if he doesnt actually do anything about it. Time and time again he put his friends in a position wich could have gotten them killed, and guess what that is how sasha and hange died. Actions speak louder than words. He may care for his friends but defenitely not more than his goals.
Both of you are wrong GAY OE is real. Saint is just hurt and doesn't want to be hurt again, which is understandable. Aot borrows from Norse mythology A LOT!! Eren controlling birds cmon ODIN does that. The paths Tree that's Ygdrassil, Nine titans ? 9 realms CMON!!
Wtf do you mean, yea the guy took that from mythology, but still trash ending.
I keep listening that the ending "ruined" and "retconned" everything set up before, but the fact that I've seen just as much defense for it, and the lack of multidimensionality of some of those who claim that the ending "ruined" everything set up (not that those who like the ending can't also lack that multidimensionality) before leads me to believe that they didn't process much of what was "before". I'm also more inclined to believe that there was intent behind the ending, meaning that the story would have had to be "ruined" for quite some chapters before, meaning that those who claim the ending ruined the story are more likely to not have been paying attention.
Then it shouldnt be hard to defend it. But every big ending defender has a different theory which are in most cases contradictory to each other. If the ending wasnt retconed it shouldnt be that hard to defend it.
You understand that it is a good thing that ending haters all have the same criticism towards the ending? It means that they all see the same flaws for the same reasons.
Ending defenders on the other hand always bring up new and different points (often times even contradictory to what other ending defenders say) because they all understood the story differently. A story is not good when everyone understands it differently and comes up with own explanations to explain away criticism.
Well.. for me chapter 130 is the chapter that officially killed the story and made it a joke. The moment Mikasa rubbed Annie’s back.
However, while the story was totally destroyed by then, Eren was still safe.
Eren was the shining beacon of hope, because if his character had a solid conclusion, it could potentially have been so well done that it could have carried the story. A great character, especially a great main character, can carry an awful story. Eren certainly had the potential to.
But then his character was completely annihilated in every conceivable way in 139. Every single thing that made that character great was ripped to shreds, leaving nothing but a pathetic husk behind.
So yeah, I’ll agree that the story itself was comprised long before 139, Eren was not.
@@gogeta_lp Like I said, it isn't like ending defenders can't be contradictory. But the fact that many who claim that the ending "ruined" everything "before" have the exact same reason (which seems like a case of lack of attention or selective reading) which either is clearly explained or has already been established.
@@saintitchief Fair enough if you don't like the direction the story takes way before the ending. Though I can't disagree more with the ch 130 thing, seriously can't see anything series busting there, it was all pretty solid.
Saint did not win this. There have been a few debates in the past where I can't understand how people say he won, but his only true Ws here was 'being better at being argumentative...' and having functional equipment. Beluga had better arguments, more varied evidence that supported his points and like...logic. and an ability to absorb the information his opponent was presenting. Debating Saint is literally like debating a fucking wall. But fuck is it entertaining to laugh at. I feel bad for Beluga and the like, they will never get that man to process information outside of what he's already decided is reality. He either doesn't want to or genuinely can not do it. I applaud the effort and appreciate the entertainment tho. 👏🏾 👏🏾
Side note: that moment where Saint clearly tried to hide that he knew shit all about Teddy Roosevelt 😂
you still have yet to give an example.
@saintitchief this time around? My example would be this entire debate. You didn't do well. I'm sure you're aware of that. Squirmin' around, cackling and grinning like an overstimulated 11 year old, screeching out the same argument that has been rebutted 4x already, refusing to/failing to grasp every point. No wonder you feel like you're an expert on whining; you, yourself are a goddam professional.
Tldr; to give you an example, would be to transcribe the entirety of this debate. Sans the technical difficulties
@saintitchief ha! You're nothing if not predictable. Stg almost verbatim what I figured you'd say lmao
@@yuukichan12 ok
Thanks for saying I did good in the debates. No need to feel bad for me it was fun debating saint and his was nice and respectful. I just wish I had my mod
Beluga won that all your points can be debunked easily
no, mister avoiding argument didnt debunked shit lmao. and same would go for you
Nah, Saint won. No one would be able to debunk his points without bringing in some headcanon
By saying that saints points can be debunked easily. You have accepted that they weren't debunked by beluga.(otherwise "beluga has debunked saints points" would be the correct statement and your english is poor if that's the case )
if they are easily debunkable than why didnt he debunk them?😂
@@asuraspath2262 are u serious? Saint is the one here with headcanons,most importantly his interpretation of ch131 is completely wrong and he knows it,yet still refuses to change it,i argued with him on Twitter and he was like "i know my interpretation is wrong but the story is dog shit"