Just like the saying "There are no wolves on Fenris", so too is there no MK IV in heresy, just MK VI with trim or grooves to make the knee pads look like MK IV. Change my mind.
I think it's an attempt to retroactively reinforce their retcon that mkvi is common in the heresy. But look! the greaves are similar to mkiv. See the lineage? The same with adding the round plates to the side of the elbows on both the mkvi and the new mkiii so that they resemble each other more. That of course was also so they could reuse some parts and have interchangeable weapon upgrade sets but still.
@@joshwenn989 It was a good retcon, done when they were just starting to get serious about Heresy. Why did you want it back? Don't get me wrong it's a cool armour, but it should've been the poster boy of post-heresy/pre-primaris along with Mk7.
There is a universe where instead of "primaris era" we are referring to "truescale era" - instead of primaris designs leaking into everything, the design aesthetic remains the same and we just have truescale minatures and a new mark of armour
Having loyalist and traitor version of each consul was a bad idea All it did was double the amount of goons GW had to produce and it loses the charm of older heresy models representing a time where the goodies and baddies weren’t so different.
Something that I can't fathom is: why would they not take advantage of the fact that models can be made modular?! You could easily have a base centurion model or each legion and upgrade resin kit for each consul. That way you'd have a "standard kit + legion upgrade"-concept for your common troops and a "legion base model + role upgrade"-concept for HQs. It's like attaching doors to vehicles with iconography on it instead of making them interchangeable and bringing out a ton of vehicles with different icons, one for each legion.
27:50 The spiked bars of the DG Praetor's trophy rack actually do have a precedent, they're present a fair bit among the 40K Plague Marines' backpacks.
They just want primaris everywhere. They are doing it even when primaris weren’t around. The size of the character, shape and look is primaris for heresy.
The influence of Mark x Primaris armour on the MK VI is so unnecessary. It actually makes the MK VI look really bad and out of place especially compared to the follow up suit of MK VII
@clinch4402 most noticable is the longer torso. MKVI also has these ridges under the armpits indicating a ribcage, if you will. It is very noticable on the mark x primaris armour. Also the elongated shin plating is reminiscent of the primaris marines.
@ Do you mean specifically the Mk6 tacticals? As a certified primaris hater myself, I love them - I see their changes more as a result of being able to add more detail with the improvements in scultping technology. The shoulderpads getting bigger while the heads got smaller is also rather anti-primaris, another change I welcome. Personally instead of "primaris era" I consider this the "CAD era", where a lot of designs look more static and overflow with excessive detail. Characters in heresy being bigger isn't an inherently primaris trait for example, but is probably my most hated "improvement" in modern heresy.
Little Horus is a great place for a conversion and the helmet is the best SOH available. The cape isn't molded on the shoulder pads and can be left off. I used the Thunderhammer from the melee kit to make a thunderhammer praetor. The three spikes on top of the backpack do not survive shipping. Mine arrived broken so I received a 2nd model (with broken spikes).
Somewhere....deep in the bowels of an office at GW....rests the forgotten, unloved and shamed character models of the Raven Guard, Iron Warrior and Salamander legions. There they lie....waiting for the day until they see the sheen of the injection dye and the happy future of the hobby table.
The weapons getting exponentially larger is the World of Warcraftification of the setting I feel. Just like how primaris are like the Starcraftification.
In regards to Tybalt Marr, he is not a necessary inclusion, but for me personally you could scrap all the traitor characters mentioned in this video, leaving just him and I'd be super happy. Makes such a good Champion for example and really doesn't have that much SoH iconography.
the hammer head is too big. Yours was a tiny bit too small for my taste though. Also if you paint the armour joints brown for leather straps you are psychopathic imo
The reason I stick with GW despite having a 3d printer is that I like their aesthetic. The other companies that do knock offs always look a bit...off. the Traitor champion gives me that vide, the armour (especially the knees) just look wrong to me
I would argue that GW lost their own aesthetic a while ago and any appeals to that aesthetic in regards to their current range is just misplaced brand loyalty (conscious or otherwise).
@@jamesespinosa690 well tbf i think the new rogal dorn looks pretty gash, and the nipple turrets make the kratos pretty bad too. They've also forgotten how to do space marines well. Games workshop's new plastic mk3+6 and primaris still doesn't hold a candle to tortuga bay's armour sets. The company chased away most of its talent a good few years back
Some of these models just look unusable by certain legions without some serious conversion. But, hey as long as Imperial Fists and Sons of Horus get new stuff, who cares?
Finally converted the power sword Praetor from AoD box. Not prepared for how much larger he actually is. Far too large to mesh with the rest of the army so he usually stands with the Terminators.
I always trim axes that I thing are too big. as a white scars player I'm happy with the miniatures we have, but I always need to say BIKES, at list give one to the Khan, but it looks like horus will get two more minis before we will have one. Alpha legion consul without legiin icons and head swap works very nice for me.
What gets me about the Mk VI push and everything that's come with it (the xbawks hueg praetors, the nulore retcons, the primarisification) is that it was just so unnecessary. If their first box had been truescale Mk IV or III, they'd have sold absolutely fine.
I'd gladly throw ashurhaddon in the bin if that meant keeping Tybat Mar. Mar is arguably better sculpted and looks easier to kit bash. I want to making a SOH jumpack character wielding an Eviscerator (stand in for thunderhammer.), and his body looks perfect for that.
The problem i have is that the non named characters surprisingly aren't generic enough. the traitor overseer and terminator praetor are excellent examples i cant see many legions looking like or using these models i cant see emperors children or world eaters, a blood angel or raven guard the weapons used are too narrow a choice the helmets and armour don't work for many other legions and as macca says at the end wheres the other banners! each legion cant be represented with these models and YES I KNOW the modifiying is part of the hobby but i should not NEED to do it when ever a new model comes out. with prices going up and choices going down i dont want to spend more money on another dominion zephon style model that GW cant remember what foot was made of metal at this point.
You know, seeing all these weapons and how big their weapons are compared to the rest of them, it’s distracting. Some of these things are as big as the guy’s chest!
I should of been an orc. I like the 'big is da boss', way of thinking to be honest. Shit, I even like the new mkvi armour. Easy and quick to paint so great for line troops. The giant weapons are just stupid. I chopped that ridiculous long sword off the box Praetor the second I saw it.
Not a fan of the two initial plastic praetors at all. I've mulled over what army I've wanted to make for some time, flip-flopping on what it should be. But, in every case, both miniatures are utterly useless to me without some heavy conversion. They're too covered in detail to suit any of the more industrious legions without sticking out like a sore thumb. Be it Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, World Eaters or Death Guard. Nor any of the wildcard legions such as the occultist Word Bearers, depraved Night Lords, or scale-armored Alpha Legion & Salamanders. Only the more regal, decorated legions such as the Ultramarines, Sons of Horus, Emperors Children, or Blood Angels can fully make use of them. And its terrible. At the very least, they should have come with different weapons, shoulders, and OPTIONAL decorative bits, opposed to being static minis that can only be built one way, akin to a 40K captain. To boot, they're both Mk6. And right now, there are 3 armor marks that people may want to, and often do, revolve their entire armies around. For those who prefer Mk3 or Mk4 armies, they're not going to look twice at these, opposed to the Mk3/Mk4 command squads, a terminator praetor, or a legion-specific praetor. Some people may not be bothered, but as one who only wants Mk2/3 & Cataphractii units, it matters a lot.
As for the loyalist herald consulat the end. My brother, who isn't into warhammer, pointed out how the "banner" looks like a beach towel. As if he's waving the legion's laundry about. And... I cannot unsee that now, thanks Zach.
I like the bionics on the Herald, but it would be nice If There was a big pack of bionic parts for all limbs, instead of having to buy different models and butcher them for parts. I just really want some MK5 models in plastic, i like building models with Manny parts, Im not scared of the shoulder pads of MK6, but for the legs! Come on GW, give me some MK5! Its called HERESY PATTERN, LET ME HAVE SOME HERESY IN MY HERESY! Its HERESY^2, let me have it!
@ i think they could do it, but they would have to do it like the MK6 studded shoulderpads, split them up. The helmets might have the same solution. And i think that would be worth it 100%, because MK5 just shows how much the imperium falls during the Heresy: there can not be any elegant machines with spare parts and niceties, only just basic function that dosnt break. No special, custom parts, only an amalgamation of old, strapped together for the Now, because towmorrow is not comming. Also, its called the HERESY pattern, Why isnt there a proper kit for it in the HOURS HERESY? One pack of 5 in small scale, No weapons and resin isnt cheap enough from a plastic kit with 20 marines that has weapons included to be worth it. And i want GW stuff, so i want GW to make it. GW should make everything We need for their setting and their game, not leaving it up to other companys to make ”legaly distinct, but 100% made for Warhammer” products. I want plastic marines, because plastic is very nice to work with.
I've got bad taste but even for me the Warcraft-looking weapons are very unfitting. Compare one of these to some OG Heresy line marine and tell me they're from the same universe.
Makka complaining about the Iron Warriors Terminator is Old Man yelling that the sky lol. I do agree it's subjective taste. Everyone has their own opinion.
Just like the saying "There are no wolves on Fenris", so too is there no MK IV in heresy, just MK VI with trim or grooves to make the knee pads look like MK IV.
Change my mind.
And where the actual FUCK is Mk2? Focusing on mk6 was braindead considering that's peak Scouring-to-Badab armour. Bravo GW
I think it's an attempt to retroactively reinforce their retcon that mkvi is common in the heresy. But look! the greaves are similar to mkiv. See the lineage? The same with adding the round plates to the side of the elbows on both the mkvi and the new mkiii so that they resemble each other more. That of course was also so they could reuse some parts and have interchangeable weapon upgrade sets but still.
@@clinch4402GW made tank gunners in MK2 & called it a day, lol
@@MajorLandmark The real retcon is that mkvi _isn't_ common. Thankfully they're winding that back in.
@@joshwenn989 It was a good retcon, done when they were just starting to get serious about Heresy.
Why did you want it back? Don't get me wrong it's a cool armour, but it should've been the poster boy of post-heresy/pre-primaris along with Mk7.
There is a universe where instead of "primaris era" we are referring to "truescale era" - instead of primaris designs leaking into everything, the design aesthetic remains the same and we just have truescale minatures and a new mark of armour
Don’t make me depressed
@@sonsofisstvan1675 Ditto, such a shame that the people in charge have such a poor understanding of what they make.
Having loyalist and traitor version of each consul was a bad idea
All it did was double the amount of goons GW had to produce and it loses the charm of older heresy models representing a time where the goodies and baddies weren’t so different.
Something that I can't fathom is: why would they not take advantage of the fact that models can be made modular?! You could easily have a base centurion model or each legion and upgrade resin kit for each consul. That way you'd have a "standard kit + legion upgrade"-concept for your common troops and a "legion base model + role upgrade"-concept for HQs.
It's like attaching doors to vehicles with iconography on it instead of making them interchangeable and bringing out a ton of vehicles with different icons, one for each legion.
They used to do this with the forgeworld “space marine character upgrade” set
A consul kit like the old Sorcerer Lord in Terminator Armour kit was what we wanted. Then you can focus on specific legion ones.
27:50 The spiked bars of the DG Praetor's trophy rack actually do have a precedent, they're present a fair bit among the 40K Plague Marines' backpacks.
They just want primaris everywhere. They are doing it even when primaris weren’t around. The size of the character, shape and look is primaris for heresy.
The influence of Mark x Primaris armour on the MK VI is so unnecessary. It actually makes the MK VI look really bad and out of place especially compared to the follow up suit of MK VII
Continuing MK X’s honoured tradition of being nothing, but a detriment, to 40k.
Could you give examples of what it influenced? I'm not disagreeing, but all I know for certain are those ears on the ultramarine upgrade helms
@clinch4402 most noticable is the longer torso. MKVI also has these ridges under the armpits indicating a ribcage, if you will. It is very noticable on the mark x primaris armour. Also the elongated shin plating is reminiscent of the primaris marines.
@ Do you mean specifically the Mk6 tacticals? As a certified primaris hater myself, I love them - I see their changes more as a result of being able to add more detail with the improvements in scultping technology. The shoulderpads getting bigger while the heads got smaller is also rather anti-primaris, another change I welcome.
Personally instead of "primaris era" I consider this the "CAD era", where a lot of designs look more static and overflow with excessive detail. Characters in heresy being bigger isn't an inherently primaris trait for example, but is probably my most hated "improvement" in modern heresy.
12:19 yes you did. Word for word
Little Horus is a great place for a conversion and the helmet is the best SOH available. The cape isn't molded on the shoulder pads and can be left off. I used the Thunderhammer from the melee kit to make a thunderhammer praetor. The three spikes on top of the backpack do not survive shipping. Mine arrived broken so I received a 2nd model (with broken spikes).
FYI the helm is basically identical to the guy I said he was cloned from, Asurhaddon
@@TheOuterCircle those tusks tho
Second best thing about playing Scars? You get to laugh the face off of SoH
Somewhere....deep in the bowels of an office at GW....rests the forgotten, unloved and shamed character models of the Raven Guard, Iron Warrior and Salamander legions.
There they lie....waiting for the day until they see the sheen of the injection dye and the happy future of the hobby table.
Horus Aximand is gorgeous. Love the pose, the shield, the sword. Great mini.
The weapons getting exponentially larger is the World of Warcraftification of the setting I feel. Just like how primaris are like the Starcraftification.
well to be fair the Thousand sons Librarian consul was needed as Thousand sons Praetor
In regards to Tybalt Marr, he is not a necessary inclusion, but for me personally you could scrap all the traitor characters mentioned in this video, leaving just him and I'd be super happy. Makes such a good Champion for example and really doesn't have that much SoH iconography.
the hammer head is too big. Yours was a tiny bit too small for my taste though. Also if you paint the armour joints brown for leather straps you are psychopathic imo
The reason I stick with GW despite having a 3d printer is that I like their aesthetic. The other companies that do knock offs always look a bit...off. the Traitor champion gives me that vide, the armour (especially the knees) just look wrong to me
I would argue that GW lost their own aesthetic a while ago and any appeals to that aesthetic in regards to their current range is just misplaced brand loyalty (conscious or otherwise).
It's like Maccas tanks. They look fookin awful.
@@jamesespinosa690 well tbf i think the new rogal dorn looks pretty gash, and the nipple turrets make the kratos pretty bad too. They've also forgotten how to do space marines well. Games workshop's new plastic mk3+6 and primaris still doesn't hold a candle to tortuga bay's armour sets. The company chased away most of its talent a good few years back
Can you give us a tutorial on how you paint white? I know there's a hundred videos like that, but I want to copy papa circle.
Some of these models just look unusable by certain legions without some serious conversion.
But, hey as long as Imperial Fists and Sons of Horus get new stuff, who cares?
🤔💬 Some on offer are *_Fair,_* annnd some (many & more) are indeed *_FOUL_* (AF) 🤮
nope, not needed what is needed is some legions have 0, fokkol, nothing characters bar maybe their Primarch...
Im convinced the people making the models played too much world of warcraft too much , everything is just too large
Finally converted the power sword Praetor from AoD box. Not prepared for how much larger he actually is. Far too large to mesh with the rest of the army so he usually stands with the Terminators.
@43:20 - if i get rid of the wolf, he could make a characharadon
I always trim axes that I thing are too big. as a white scars player I'm happy with the miniatures we have, but I always need to say BIKES, at list give one to the Khan, but it looks like horus will get two more minis before we will have one. Alpha legion consul without legiin icons and head swap works very nice for me.
24:40 - is that supposed to be like a trophy from Chtonia?
Ashurhaddons dagger reminds me of parts outbof the chaos marine kit
I hate the large weapons on everything. I blame world of warcraft
Axe: BIG
Banner: smol
What gets me about the Mk VI push and everything that's come with it (the xbawks hueg praetors, the nulore retcons, the primarisification) is that it was just so unnecessary.
If their first box had been truescale Mk IV or III, they'd have sold absolutely fine.
I'd gladly throw ashurhaddon in the bin if that meant keeping Tybat Mar.
Mar is arguably better sculpted and looks easier to kit bash.
I want to making a SOH jumpack character wielding an Eviscerator (stand in for thunderhammer.), and his body looks perfect for that.
46:09 Why would it be helpful to be in the EU? (Well except proximity I guess...)
Entirely due to proximity and VISA, even Australians, for some reason, now need to fill out paperwork to enter the mother country.
The problem i have is that the non named characters surprisingly aren't generic enough. the traitor overseer and terminator praetor are excellent examples i cant see many legions looking like or using these models i cant see emperors children or world eaters, a blood angel or raven guard the weapons used are too narrow a choice the helmets and armour don't work for many other legions and as macca says at the end wheres the other banners! each legion cant be represented with these models and YES I KNOW the modifiying is part of the hobby but i should not NEED to do it when ever a new model comes out. with prices going up and choices going down i dont want to spend more money on another dominion zephon style model that GW cant remember what foot was made of metal at this point.
You know, seeing all these weapons and how big their weapons are compared to the rest of them, it’s distracting.
Some of these things are as big as the guy’s chest!
55:05 i would head and back swap to make a Loyalist
I should of been an orc. I like the 'big is da boss', way of thinking to be honest. Shit, I even like the new mkvi armour. Easy and quick to paint so great for line troops. The giant weapons are just stupid. I chopped that ridiculous long sword off the box Praetor the second I saw it.
Not a fan of the two initial plastic praetors at all. I've mulled over what army I've wanted to make for some time, flip-flopping on what it should be. But, in every case, both miniatures are utterly useless to me without some heavy conversion.
They're too covered in detail to suit any of the more industrious legions without sticking out like a sore thumb. Be it Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, World Eaters or Death Guard. Nor any of the wildcard legions such as the occultist Word Bearers, depraved Night Lords, or scale-armored Alpha Legion & Salamanders. Only the more regal, decorated legions such as the Ultramarines, Sons of Horus, Emperors Children, or Blood Angels can fully make use of them. And its terrible. At the very least, they should have come with different weapons, shoulders, and OPTIONAL decorative bits, opposed to being static minis that can only be built one way, akin to a 40K captain.
To boot, they're both Mk6. And right now, there are 3 armor marks that people may want to, and often do, revolve their entire armies around. For those who prefer Mk3 or Mk4 armies, they're not going to look twice at these, opposed to the Mk3/Mk4 command squads, a terminator praetor, or a legion-specific praetor. Some people may not be bothered, but as one who only wants Mk2/3 & Cataphractii units, it matters a lot.
As for the loyalist herald consulat the end. My brother, who isn't into warhammer, pointed out how the "banner" looks like a beach towel. As if he's waving the legion's laundry about. And... I cannot unsee that now, thanks Zach.
I’m not a huge fan of those miniatures either but I’ve so far managed to avoid basing my entire personality around it.
@@rogaldorn8519
Cheeky.
I like the bionics on the Herald, but it would be nice If There was a big pack of bionic parts for all limbs, instead of having to buy different models and butcher them for parts.
I just really want some MK5 models in plastic, i like building models with Manny parts, Im not scared of the shoulder pads of MK6, but for the legs!
Come on GW, give me some MK5!
Its called HERESY PATTERN, LET ME HAVE SOME HERESY IN MY HERESY!
Its HERESY^2, let me have it!
I don't think the plastic moulds can do all the studs on mkV armour sadly. 😢
@ i think they could do it, but they would have to do it like the MK6 studded shoulderpads, split them up. The helmets might have the same solution.
And i think that would be worth it 100%, because MK5 just shows how much the imperium falls during the Heresy: there can not be any elegant machines with spare parts and niceties, only just basic function that dosnt break.
No special, custom parts, only an amalgamation of old, strapped together for the Now, because towmorrow is not comming.
Also, its called the HERESY pattern, Why isnt there a proper kit for it in the HOURS HERESY?
One pack of 5 in small scale, No weapons and resin isnt cheap enough from a plastic kit with 20 marines that has weapons included to be worth it.
And i want GW stuff, so i want GW to make it.
GW should make everything We need for their setting and their game, not leaving it up to other companys to make ”legaly distinct, but 100% made for Warhammer” products.
I want plastic marines, because plastic is very nice to work with.
@@arielnir2679 So you want mold lines running down the head, legs, and shoulders???
No thanks. The mkvi studded shoulder is total trash.
@ If they need to split those parts up to keep the look the same as they are, yes, i Will take it.
The current hammer is the wrong size
You missed the alpha legion exodus dude? Or is he not a consul?
He's a named character
@darthvaderbutwayshittier7054 he did loads of named character....?
43:16
The symbols are that internet cat face with a w mouth.
@22:00 i think this is a result of lazy digital asset rescultping
I've got bad taste but even for me the Warcraft-looking weapons are very unfitting. Compare one of these to some OG Heresy line marine and tell me they're from the same universe.
Do you think he's maybe compensating for something?
Makka complaining about the Iron Warriors Terminator is Old Man yelling that the sky lol. I do agree it's subjective taste. Everyone has their own opinion.
It's the poster boy of GW hideously oversizing weapons for heresy, which isn't consistent with many of the troop choices.
These models are an absolute con....64 dollars !!!
🤔💬 Some are *_Fair,_* annnd some are indeed *_FOUL_* (AF) 🤮