W4ABN, Loaded voltage at the beginning of the test was 13.25 and slowly dropped over the 4 hours to what you saw at the end. At one hour in, under a constant 100A+/- load, the voltage was 12.85V. At three hours (75% DOD) the voltage was still 12.59V. The most voltage sag occurred in last half hour. The drop from 11.8V to 11.69V occurred well past the rated Ah capacity of the bank. The voltage, even at 425 Ah's removed, was still well above the safe level for the cells. -Compass Marine
Winston also makes 1000Ah cells. They are massive, 45kg each. But they cost a bit less per Wh, so are a bit more economical. And easier to use, because you have less wiring and parallel circuits. It can do 10000A continues discharge (10C) even. LOL. But recommended is 500Acharge and discharge (0.5C), to really get the rated capacity.
Weird, but- I've seen a couple of users build these batteries, and- I have some crazy questions? How big is the size of the (4) cells together? How much does each cell weigh? It definitely impressive, but- I'm in a truck camper, and, space is at a premium! However, I really like the idea of a single 400AH battery, or, ideally - a 400AH 24V battery- space limited, of course! If I'm not crazy, each cell might weight @ 22 Lbs., making the whole pack @ 88 Lbs- which is a little more than this 'ole body can muscle around anymore, but- I can assemble it 'in situ' if needed as well.
if you are draining 100 amps off a 400a/h battery you are draining it at 0.25c, which would explain the increase in amp hours as they are usually rated at 400a/h at 1c if you go higher than 1c you will get less and if you go lower you will get more due to the peukert effect ;-)
Peukert isn't a factor with lithium like with lead acid. There's still a bit of 'internal resistance', but it's in the milliOhms range for a decent battery. I've done a lot of capacity testing with LiFePO4 from 10Ah through 400Ah. They tend to start with more than 100% rated capacity. They gain capacity during the first 20-50 cycles before starting to degrade. It's an impressive chemistry.
Thanks for doing this test. I discovered these batteries visiting the cruisers forum, I think you may have posted there? Anyway, I was looking to create a portable power supply using these Winston yitrium 400ah batteries, but am having a hard time finding them in the US. Do you have any recommendations on where to buy them? Do you still think they are good batteries? Thanks!
Are there any fire risks with this Lithium-based battery? Lithium Ion is in the news lately because of the fire on a JAL Boeing 787. Nice video. Worth watching.
This is an interesting test on this bank. If the Volt Meter showed 11.8 at the beginning and 11.69 volts at the end during this video, what was the voltage at the beginning of the 4 hr test?
questions. 1. so that is a 12v 400ah bank? (4, 3.2v banks in series?) 2. how much does it weigh? 3. how much did it cost? 4. what are the dimensions of it(LxWxH)? 5. would 4 of them fit in a motorcycle (like to take the place of the engine, trans, and fuel tank in a cruiser/bobber/chopper type frame, cuz they're larger) if not, how many would?
I think they ship to the USA www.ev-power.eu/Winston-40Ah-200Ah/ this looks like a good deal www.ev-power.eu/Winston-40Ah-200Ah/12V-2-4kW-LiFePO4-yacht-set-with-200Ah-cells-BMS-mobile-monitoring.html
I have the same cells 400ah x 8cells. I run them between 3.45vpc my cut off is 3.2vpc on my bms not that I have ever run the cells that low. You can charge them right up in the knee at 3.65vpc my solar charge is set to 3.45 if using the inverter 28.8 pack voltage not that I charge using the inverter very often as I am off grid. You might be surprised by mine are in a RV and I use a 2400w induction cooker. I prefer induction over gas as it’s quicker and does not heat up a small space. Sailboat will be white gas or metho horribly slow
wow that cost a lot off money, Hmmm the live time off Trojan Batteries at good use and maintenance is 9 to 10 years. That cost 30% compare a Winston Battery. My Trojan T105 battery-bank 24v 675a is now 5 years old and is in good condition.
On winston 60ah thunderbird if is blow a little but the voltage is 3.2 and is stable is an ok battery or not? Is good to dismount safety valve to let the presure out from these cells or no?
I am curious as well as I am putting together a 800ah battery pack and would like to protect them at cell level. Basically I want something that I can program for maximum and minimum cell voltage and take the entire thing offline when it hits it. It would really be a bummer to toast batteries that cost this much.
none. i have seen these cells set fire to and they don't support a flame. GS Yuasa makes LiCoO batteries for the 787 and LiMnO batteries for the Mitsubishi MiEV. both of these chemistries are very volatile and tend to have Thermal runaway events, as noted in recent news.
@@timpin6317 i got the same batery bank 400 ah winston .. 4 cells 12 volt system. instaled 4 years ago in a off grid location on a 750 watt pv system. my inverter have alrdy 2285 kw hours of usage. 2 weeks ago i forget to turn of the electric floor heating. it runed all night 8 hours at 475 watt draw. my batery monitor showed 14 % capacity left that morning. solar charger loaded over 4400 watt that day into batery and it was not even going in absorbtion mode ;) this cells live forever if they most of time dont ged below 70 % capacity they do 7000 loading cycles wit no problem. in my opinion best cells i ever come along
Hi, I see those shunt balancing pcb's , how can they balance if your charging with even 0.5C (200Amps) , I think shunt balancing is ok for small cells, but not for this kind of power sources. I think for this type of cell's it's better to have each cell have its own charging circuit.
@@freetrailer4poor It depends purely on number of cycles, how deeply you discharge each time, how slowly you discharge / charge then, and ambient temperature. 425Ah, for a cell that is rated 400Ah, after a year is good (assuming 80% DoD and 350 cycles).
I'm thinking to replace my wet-cells (in Sailboat) with Lipo's like yours, what do I need to have a safe installation? When they are fully loaded isn't the Voltage around 16 V ? And what kind of Charger would be needed?
It would be around 14.4 volts fully charged, but it would settle to around 13.8v after a while. You can use a digital charger that can be for lead acid as long as you monitor each individual cell to not go above 3.7v a 5 dollar volt meter on each cell would be a good idea as long as it can read down to 2.5v they are safe and if you have time learn about balancing the cells and you will never go back to lead aciid
Hiis this a bottom or top balanced system? I see the cell monitors but can't recognise the type. Why 12V with so many amps instead of 24V with a better use of solar chargeres like the victron 150/88 or the (modified?) tristar mppt60?
He is drawing about 1200W. That is not extreme. Throw ac, few computers, fridge, some lights, and you easily have that average power. I use on average 3000W in my apartment. But that is because I have a lot of computers, plus electric kitchen stove. No electric heating or AC tho.
W4ABN,
Loaded voltage at the beginning of the test was 13.25 and slowly dropped over the 4 hours to what you saw at the end. At one hour in, under a constant 100A+/- load, the voltage was 12.85V. At three hours (75% DOD) the voltage was still 12.59V.
The most voltage sag occurred in last half hour. The drop from 11.8V to 11.69V occurred well past the rated Ah capacity of the bank. The voltage, even at 425 Ah's removed, was still well above the safe level for the cells.
-Compass Marine
Winston also makes 1000Ah cells. They are massive, 45kg each. But they cost a bit less per Wh, so are a bit more economical. And easier to use, because you have less wiring and parallel circuits. It can do 10000A continues discharge (10C) even. LOL. But recommended is 500Acharge and discharge (0.5C), to really get the rated capacity.
Weird, but- I've seen a couple of users build these batteries, and- I have some crazy questions? How big is the size of the (4) cells together? How much does each cell weigh? It definitely impressive, but- I'm in a truck camper, and, space is at a premium! However, I really like the idea of a single 400AH battery, or, ideally - a 400AH 24V battery- space limited, of course! If I'm not crazy, each cell might weight @ 22 Lbs., making the whole pack @ 88 Lbs- which is a little more than this 'ole body can muscle around anymore, but- I can assemble it 'in situ' if needed as well.
Calculating the loses in the invertor that number is even higher!
I have the 200 Ah version, super happy with as well.
if you are draining 100 amps off a 400a/h battery you are draining it at 0.25c, which would explain the increase in amp hours as they are usually rated at 400a/h at 1c if you go higher than 1c you will get less and if you go lower you will get more due to the peukert effect ;-)
Peukert isn't a factor with lithium like with lead acid. There's still a bit of 'internal resistance', but it's in the milliOhms range for a decent battery. I've done a lot of capacity testing with LiFePO4 from 10Ah through 400Ah. They tend to start with more than 100% rated capacity. They gain capacity during the first 20-50 cycles before starting to degrade. It's an impressive chemistry.
Thanks for doing this test. I discovered these batteries visiting the cruisers forum, I think you may have posted there? Anyway, I was looking to create a portable power supply using these Winston yitrium 400ah batteries, but am having a hard time finding them in the US. Do you have any recommendations on where to buy them? Do you still think they are good batteries? Thanks!
Are you still interested in Winston batteries in the US. I know this post is old but if so you can contact me
Can I buy from alibaba?
R u still using these cell 8 years?
Are there any fire risks with this Lithium-based battery? Lithium Ion is in the news lately because of the fire on a JAL Boeing 787.
Nice video. Worth watching.
This is an interesting test on this bank. If the Volt Meter showed 11.8 at the beginning and 11.69 volts at the end during this video, what was the voltage at the beginning of the 4 hr test?
questions.
1. so that is a 12v 400ah bank? (4, 3.2v banks in series?)
2. how much does it weigh?
3. how much did it cost?
4. what are the dimensions of it(LxWxH)?
5. would 4 of them fit in a motorcycle (like to take the place of the engine, trans, and fuel tank in a cruiser/bobber/chopper type frame, cuz they're larger) if not, how many would?
what a dump question, you cant power up an electric bije with 12v the amps would be many thousand.. you need more voltage.
What a stupid reply,
On top of criticizing someone for learning,
look at how old the question you replied to is you dunce!
Can not find a place to buy in USA . Where do you buy them?
I think they ship to the USA
www.ev-power.eu/Winston-40Ah-200Ah/
this looks like a good deal
www.ev-power.eu/Winston-40Ah-200Ah/12V-2-4kW-LiFePO4-yacht-set-with-200Ah-cells-BMS-mobile-monitoring.html
Ships from China - evcomponents.com
How are these batteries working so far?
I have the same cells 400ah x 8cells. I run them between 3.45vpc my cut off is 3.2vpc on my bms not that I have ever run the cells that low. You can charge them right up in the knee at 3.65vpc my solar charge is set to 3.45 if using the inverter 28.8 pack voltage not that I charge using the inverter very often as I am off grid.
You might be surprised by mine are in a RV and I use a 2400w induction cooker. I prefer induction over gas as it’s quicker and does not heat up a small space. Sailboat will be white gas or metho horribly slow
wow that cost a lot off money, Hmmm the live time off Trojan Batteries at good use and maintenance is 9 to 10 years. That cost 30% compare a Winston Battery. My Trojan T105 battery-bank 24v 675a is now 5 years old and is in good condition.
On winston 60ah thunderbird if is blow a little but the voltage is 3.2 and is stable is an ok battery or not? Is good to dismount safety valve to let the presure out from these cells or no?
How did you purchase and what was the price?
Do you resell this batteries or can share the contact to get them ?
You can see this behaviour on High Rate Dynasty batteries from C&D AGM
Limitations
subject to aging, even if not in use - storage in a cool place at 40% charge reduces the aging effect.
Can LiFePo4 be used starting too? If not, how would you charge an AGM starter, and LiFePo4 house bank from one alternator (120a Balmar)?
They can do 10c pulse, not best for cycle life though.
What do you use for a charger?
What BMS did you use for this test?
Did you ever hear back or figure this out. I too am curious.
I am curious as well as I am putting together a 800ah battery pack and would like to protect them at cell level.
Basically I want something that I can program for maximum and minimum cell voltage and take the entire thing offline when it hits it.
It would really be a bummer to toast batteries that cost this much.
Did anyone ever get the info on the BMS ? Thanks
link for the BMS?
none. i have seen these cells set fire to and they don't support a flame. GS Yuasa makes LiCoO batteries for the 787 and LiMnO batteries for the Mitsubishi MiEV. both of these chemistries are very volatile and tend to have Thermal runaway events, as noted in recent news.
What kind of cells are these ?
LiFePO4.
i'm curious to hear from the boat owner how they are after 5 years..
ElectronicMarine 7 years on: how is your battery now? Still giving 105% at c/4?
@@timpin6317 wee are in 2020... i was curious how they are now... if the natural life has kiked in or not.... they don't last forever... :(
ElectronicMarine They really ought to still be ok. Winston claim 2000 cycles which means they should have plenty of life yet
@@timpin6317 i got the same batery bank 400 ah winston .. 4 cells 12 volt system. instaled 4 years ago in a off grid location on a 750 watt pv system. my inverter have alrdy 2285 kw hours of usage. 2 weeks ago i forget to turn of the electric floor heating. it runed all night 8 hours at 475 watt draw. my batery monitor showed 14 % capacity left that morning. solar charger loaded over 4400 watt that day into batery and it was not even going in absorbtion mode ;) this cells live forever if they most of time dont ged below 70 % capacity they do 7000 loading cycles wit no problem. in my opinion best cells i ever come along
Royal-CBD Thanks for the info. They sound really good. Just one thing puzzling me: I didn’t know LiFePO4 cells went into absorption
Who makes the batterys?
Winston
It looks like above 500 Ah actual capacity.
Hi, I see those shunt balancing pcb's , how can they balance if your charging with even 0.5C (200Amps) , I think shunt balancing is ok for small cells, but not for this kind of power sources.
I think for this type of cell's it's better to have each cell have its own charging circuit.
You wouldn't really expect more than 1amp (equivalent) difference in a cell per cycle.
Silly tech guy......It's not pronounced "Puke-ert"....his name was "Poy-kert". Thanks for the great review!!
Battery link?
I have a question, are these battery still going strong without any issues?
He did another test about 1 year ago 432 A-Hr.
@@freetrailer4poor It depends purely on number of cycles, how deeply you discharge each time, how slowly you discharge / charge then, and ambient temperature. 425Ah, for a cell that is rated 400Ah, after a year is good (assuming 80% DoD and 350 cycles).
I'm thinking to replace my wet-cells (in Sailboat) with Lipo's like yours, what do I need to have a safe installation? When they are fully loaded isn't the Voltage around 16 V ? And what kind of Charger would be needed?
It would be around 14.4 volts fully charged, but it would settle to around 13.8v after a while. You can use a digital charger that can be for lead acid as long as you monitor each individual cell to not go above 3.7v a 5 dollar volt meter on each cell would be a good idea as long as it can read down to 2.5v they are safe and if you have time learn about balancing the cells and you will never go back to lead aciid
Hiis this a bottom or top balanced system?
I see the cell monitors but can't recognise the type.
Why 12V with so many amps instead of 24V with a better use of solar chargeres like the victron 150/88 or the (modified?) tristar mppt60?
Bigger cells are usually a bit cheaper per Ah and Wh. Plus less wires to worry about.
You're drawing at higher wattage than most central home A/C off your LiFeO4 battery.
He is drawing about 1200W. That is not extreme. Throw ac, few computers, fridge, some lights, and you easily have that average power.
I use on average 3000W in my apartment. But that is because I have a lot of computers, plus electric kitchen stove. No electric heating or AC tho.
Can I use this in car audio?
PARS TESLA device to 20min charging 100%