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I think that the vast majority of people who buy clones are people who love knives but just can’t afford the high end stuff they really want. My issue is when people try to say that the clone of something is just as good as the real deal. I’ve had people say this about Shiro clones, and it’s just simply not true 😅 I don’t buy clones, but I also can’t afford many of the knives I would absolutely love to own, so I can see the appeal for sure.
3 часа назад+1
Eh you could argue about the heat treat but anything else kinda the same
Believe me, if there was one clone I would have bought, it would have been a Shiro clone. But my experience was enough to turn me off the idea entirely.
Exactly. Tolerances are tolerances. Any half decent shop in the world can hit .0005". I'd argue that my old Hoback warhorse clone was better than the legit version in every way, probably my (S90V/ti) spyderco p'kal too.
Yes, I've had both real and clone Shiro. The Green Thorn D2/Ti clone I got for $75 when I 1st started collecting, was 98% of the real deal. I've let others who know real Shiros handle the clone, and they all agreed
I’ve been trying to stop smoking and found that fidget friendly knives really help. Some of the knives that are very fidget friendly are just not available and sometimes the clone is even better. Winterblade factor is an example. I don’t condone clones but they are available so I have a few that I can’t get in the real world.
I love clones.. bc I'm not buying the real ones or trying to sell them. Plus I can practice refinishing the blades. Tuning detents, and getting a good edge
One thing I’ve read online that I found interesting is that most clone makers either won’t or are much less willing to produce a clone of a product that is designed and/or OEM’d in China. I don’t know how true or across the board that is but it really made me look at the clone industry with an even shadier lens because it feels like it’s got a dual purpose to both steal from and hurt the original maker/brand, especially if they are made in the US. If it’s a line for line blatant copy then you’re still stealing someone else’s IP no matter which way you shake it, regardless of whether or not it has the brand markings. Obviously on top of that you’re sending money overseas instead of to the company who invested time and R&D. So I don’t buy or support clones mostly from an ethics point of view.
I think Clones serve a purpose. Thanks to a few clones i now know that i want to own the real thing. Though that said, there are plenty of budget companies that i can afford that use their own designs and I'm much more interested in them than clones anyway.
I bought a $200 F3 clone (wanted to see if i want a real one) with m390, milled marble CF and the fit, finish and action on it is amazing. If someone put a Shiro logo on it, i think most people would have a hard time telling it apart. I still want to get a real one, but for now I'll buy other knives and save up for it.
Clones helped me get into the hobby. Initially, I couldn't justify spending more than $100 on a knife. How things have changed! I wouldn't own a good chuck of my current collection if I did get to experience those knives as clones.
As long as it clearly shows that its a different company than the original, that should be enough. X company in China using slightly less premium materials making a super similar knife to a more premium USA brand doesnt bother me, as long as it doesnt claim to be the original brand, and clearly shows that its X company from China. Thats the difference between a clone and a counterfeit. A counterfeit claims to be the original.
@@tarinindell8217honestly, I’ve never found a clone that quality to price justified me buying it. But if I bought a clone and loved it that would make me more likely to buy the real deal. Because I know the real deal is going to very likely be even better. Possibly by a lot. And with better materials.
It’s an ongoing discussion. I like that you differentiate, because I really think that a person who buys a clone either might buy a real one or never would have bought one. In the first case, it’s good for the original company. In the second case it’s no loss. I first had a Spyderco clone to try it before I bought more than 20 original ones. Same with Benchmade. First a clone, now I’ve got three real ones.
It’s exactly same in the Guitar world, there’s the player that just don’t care who made it as long as it sounds and plays great, there’s the players “like me” who play a specific instrument “a 62’ Strat reissue, Mexico made, rewired with 57’ pickup’s, clothe wiring, 58’ neck” and then the collector who buys specific guitar models, in perfect condition and refuses to budge from that… Usually it’s guy’s who are/were playing, recording, touring, writing, who just wants it to play n sound great, we don’t care what it looks like
I don't think there is anything wrong with clones. You can use a clone because maybe you like your Grail knife or something that is a safe queen. And the clones would have the same ergos and blade shape. Like most people I think it's counterfeit knives that are the issue. Something that has the company logo clearly on it that is fake. I own a few clones that are users. And in day to day basic tasks. No difference.
This was my favorite knife guy episode. I bought a legitimate full price magnacut large sebenza and really hated the action. Decided I wanted something more fidgety. Didn't want to spend another couple hundred for another disappointment, so I caved and bought a clone. It was excellent. Hit up Blade Binge a month later and picked up a barely used spartan that I EDC all the time. Can't recommend this "clone trial period" enough.
I recently purchased a clone of a cold steel broken skull. I loved my range boss so when i found out the broken skull is the same knife but made with better steel and g10 instead of grivory, i had to have one. Well the broken skull is long discontinued. Ebay had one for a few hundred buck. Aliexpress had a fake one for 17 dollars shipped.. It came in the mail from china in 12 days. Its has real g10, the blade is 440c. Its my favorite knife and i carry it every day. Maybe one day ill come across a real one but until then im happy with what i have.
I have 1 clone, AD20, as it is unobtainable in my country, and it was like 50$ for a clone from china with shipping. I bought it just to see the action and ergo of the original, if I will like it, or not. and it's full titanium, just D2 blade steel. Ps. And yes, there’s a clear difference in logo on the „D” on the blade, so you know it’s a clone, not original. PPs. I also have original shark cub in G10, and I like action of AD20 much more.
One direction I have found for some custom makers that I can not afford to get a knife from or their books are not open is to find one of their designs that have been made in production. I have done this with Tom Mayo, Les George, and hopefully soon with Dalibor Bergam. I do however want to get a clone of one of my grail knives just to compare to the original. I might do that with the SPK Lamia.
Let’s be honest, in most cases you get what you pay for. A clone is cheaper for a reason, cheaper steel and other materials. I don’t care for clones. I do my research and for the most part know what I’m buying and understand the price point. Thx
If I’m considering an expensive knife I always buy a less expensive one similar to it to test out the idea as closely as I can. I’ve never dabbled in clones but I can see the idea of doing so being a test run.
Interesting. Asterisk for Amazon as "major retailer" IF you consider them in that group that would/should not have counterfeits. I contacted Kershaw after getting a Blur and Leek via Amazon, they check out, but Kershaw told me that even though they legitimately sell to Amazon, due to Amazon's sourcing and resale practices counterfeits DO get mixed in with real deal, thus they can't guarantee autheticity of *anything* bought via Amazon. Yipes. My email reeaction was "well if that's the case and you go so far as to put a note on your website cautioning against counterfeits then why are you selling to Amazon at all?"... and of course crickets. Duh, Amazon is a cash cow, Kershaw looks the other way I guess.
I just bought an Excalibur clone, and I have to say the quality is much more ..... JUST KIDDING METAL COMPLEX! I WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!!! just wanted to make ya sweat a little 😎
If I were a maker / designer, I would feel better about somebody buying a clone and realizing it's not for them. Other than buying my original and realizing that they hate it and wasted so much hard earned money. And on the flip side they buy the clone and realize yeah I really need to get the original.
I like clones, some are as good as the original. As long as people are open about it being a clone and dont try to pass it off as legit i'm fine with it.
And it was. If you get a chance someone in the Facebook Kizer group posted one of your Kizer videos something about “of course they did”. And the hate is realllllll. Some guy embarrassing himself talking about you being paid by CJRB about your review of the Holm. It was tooooo funny. Even misinterpreted what you actually said about it.
The sad part is these clones make it to pawn shops. They get marked up to close to retail of the real thing. So folks take advantage of selling clones as the real thing. People will buy them not knowing they got ripped off.
Only ever dabbled in a shiro quantum ursus clone to know if I wanted to spend on the real thing, once I knew the answer I sold it (that wood inlay ursus is 🔥 and I’m looking for a good deal on the real thing)
I try to think of clones as flattering, but a forgery as insulting. Just like dalabor said if somebody can't afford my work but want the aesthetic then it's understandable.
I bought a clone of the Stitch and the lock broke. I bought a clone of the ad20 and the lock broke also a clone Bug Out and guess what….the lock broke. Lol
How many times have you seen people get scammed buying a clone thinking it was the real thing? Even if you are open about it being a fake and later sell it as a fake it could be sold as real later on.
I n've got 5 real clones. Two Bugout. 1 PM3, 1 Demco, and one Reate Exo gravity knife. So cool. Of course it's not the sale quality. But the real ones are so fu... exoensives. Then, i could buy them and pocesed some knives i couldn't get ..! ^^
@@jerrykotrokois3050 Nah, it's a shaman. I pulled one of mine out of the box and compared it. the shape of the scales up around the pivot give it away. it just looked different sitting out there with those other knives in those silver metal(Ti?) scales.
if there is a hawk knife rook clone, i would be interested even if im against clones but i just want to have something like the knife without paying tousands of dollars
Clones of any product are no different than a reprint of a famous painting. You want it but can’t afford it. I’ve had arguments with multiple people who complain about products but have reprints of Dali or Van Gogh paintings on their wall. It’s a true test to your product quality as well. If a knockoff company can get real close to your 1000% more expensive knife, maybe you’re overcharging.
Or... again... they're doing it somewhere that allows for much lower labor costs... and using more automated processes... and cutting corners... etc etc. Same story
I've said it elsewhere, I was shocked and angered when the clone of a Microtech Combat Troodon Signature series, with Ultem and Magnacut D/E blade, locked up much tighter and fired faster/ harder than the original version (over $650) that I own. And it cost literally 1/10th what Microtech charged. Sure the blade is probably actually D2 and not Magnacut (I think this might have been one of the first production examples of Microtech using Magnacut?) but it's inexcusable that the "real" knife have a looser blade than the ostensibly crappy Chinese copy. Real Ultem and everything else, it is incredibly hard to tell the difference. But if you know what to look for, it jumps out at you.
I don't like 1:1 copies, if you don't have your own ideas, don't bother. Similar design elements are OK, as long as the overall impression stands out and shows its own character, for example the Kunwu Padre is similar to the Rotten design, but not a mere copy.
When I first got big into knives when I had adult money to spend(2020) I knew I always wanted a halo(thanks Jack Bauer). Well real halos, while still in production then, were like 850. I got a clone, all it did was make me even more curious about Microtech.. while I never got a halo, I do have 2 hydras and a maxace Draco on the way.. plus I’ve got half a dozen other microtechs. May one day still add a halo, but they’re not the easiest to come by
I understand it's not good for the real knife companies. But daesn't matter ..! ^^ It's the karma. The American and European companies ask cnChina to made them knives. They give their technics and knoledge. Then now, the China made them with their own companies !!
I bought a clone Microtech to see if I would actually like carrying one before I dropped real money on one. I’d say I’m a pro clone person. As long as you’re not trying to pass it off as real. My best friend has a clone reate exo b.c he loves mine but isn’t willing to drop the price tag on a real one
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I think that the vast majority of people who buy clones are people who love knives but just can’t afford the high end stuff they really want. My issue is when people try to say that the clone of something is just as good as the real deal. I’ve had people say this about Shiro clones, and it’s just simply not true 😅
I don’t buy clones, but I also can’t afford many of the knives I would absolutely love to own, so I can see the appeal for sure.
Eh you could argue about the heat treat but anything else kinda the same
No. Same shape doesn’t make same knife. I’ve felt the action of a real Shiro, and the action of three separate clones. No. Not the same.
Believe me, if there was one clone I would have bought, it would have been a Shiro clone. But my experience was enough to turn me off the idea entirely.
Exactly. Tolerances are tolerances. Any half decent shop in the world can hit .0005".
I'd argue that my old Hoback warhorse clone was better than the legit version in every way, probably my (S90V/ti) spyderco p'kal too.
Yes, I've had both real and clone Shiro. The Green Thorn D2/Ti clone I got for $75 when I 1st started collecting, was 98% of the real deal. I've let others who know real Shiros handle the clone, and they all agreed
I’ve been trying to stop smoking and found that fidget friendly knives really help. Some of the knives that are very fidget friendly are just not available and sometimes the clone is even better. Winterblade factor is an example. I don’t condone clones but they are available so I have a few that I can’t get in the real world.
I love clones.. bc I'm not buying the real ones or trying to sell them. Plus I can practice refinishing the blades. Tuning detents, and getting a good edge
One thing I’ve read online that I found interesting is that most clone makers either won’t or are much less willing to produce a clone of a product that is designed and/or OEM’d in China. I don’t know how true or across the board that is but it really made me look at the clone industry with an even shadier lens because it feels like it’s got a dual purpose to both steal from and hurt the original maker/brand, especially if they are made in the US.
If it’s a line for line blatant copy then you’re still stealing someone else’s IP no matter which way you shake it, regardless of whether or not it has the brand markings. Obviously on top of that you’re sending money overseas instead of to the company who invested time and R&D. So I don’t buy or support clones mostly from an ethics point of view.
I think Clones serve a purpose. Thanks to a few clones i now know that i want to own the real thing. Though that said, there are plenty of budget companies that i can afford that use their own designs and I'm much more interested in them than clones anyway.
I bought a $200 F3 clone (wanted to see if i want a real one) with m390, milled marble CF and the fit, finish and action on it is amazing. If someone put a Shiro logo on it, i think most people would have a hard time telling it apart. I still want to get a real one, but for now I'll buy other knives and save up for it.
Bought a counterfeit just for the carbon fiber scales for my MSI
Interesting legal fact is that a novel design element is protected as copyright (60+ years) vs. a novel patented locking element (19 years).
Clones helped me get into the hobby. Initially, I couldn't justify spending more than $100 on a knife. How things have changed! I wouldn't own a good chuck of my current collection if I did get to experience those knives as clones.
So long as it’s clearly a clone and not a counterfeit… maybe there’s a difference. Kinda like a gas station version?
As long as it clearly shows that its a different company than the original, that should be enough.
X company in China using slightly less premium materials making a super similar knife to a more premium USA brand doesnt bother me, as long as it doesnt claim to be the original brand, and clearly shows that its X company from China.
Thats the difference between a clone and a counterfeit.
A counterfeit claims to be the original.
@@tarinindell8217honestly, I’ve never found a clone that quality to price justified me buying it. But if I bought a clone and loved it that would make me more likely to buy the real deal. Because I know the real deal is going to very likely be even better. Possibly by a lot. And with better materials.
It’s an ongoing discussion. I like that you differentiate, because I really think that a person who buys a clone either might buy a real one or never would have bought one. In the first case, it’s good for the original company. In the second case it’s no loss. I first had a Spyderco clone to try it before I bought more than 20 original ones. Same with Benchmade. First a clone, now I’ve got three real ones.
Oh, It's that part of the year again :)
I buy both real and clone. Idc.
Did that just for the scales that I wanted off the clone
It’s exactly same in the Guitar world, there’s the player that just don’t care who made it as long as it sounds and plays great, there’s the players “like me” who play a specific instrument “a 62’ Strat reissue, Mexico made, rewired with 57’ pickup’s, clothe wiring, 58’ neck” and then the collector who buys specific guitar models, in perfect condition and refuses to budge from that… Usually it’s guy’s who are/were playing, recording, touring, writing, who just wants it to play n sound great, we don’t care what it looks like
The voice work in this episode is just off the hook! No one can do the "knife world idiot" better than muh boy MC.
I don't think there is anything wrong with clones. You can use a clone because maybe you like your Grail knife or something that is a safe queen. And the clones would have the same ergos and blade shape. Like most people I think it's counterfeit knives that are the issue. Something that has the company logo clearly on it that is fake. I own a few clones that are users. And in day to day basic tasks. No difference.
Just grabbed another RAT 1. The spine has some tooling marks. The Ganzo knockoff, with an axis lock at half the price, was flawless 🤷♂
This was my favorite knife guy episode. I bought a legitimate full price magnacut large sebenza and really hated the action. Decided I wanted something more fidgety. Didn't want to spend another couple hundred for another disappointment, so I caved and bought a clone. It was excellent. Hit up Blade Binge a month later and picked up a barely used spartan that I EDC all the time. Can't recommend this "clone trial period" enough.
I recently purchased a clone of a cold steel broken skull. I loved my range boss so when i found out the broken skull is the same knife but made with better steel and g10 instead of grivory, i had to have one. Well the broken skull is long discontinued. Ebay had one for a few hundred buck. Aliexpress had a fake one for 17 dollars shipped.. It came in the mail from china in 12 days. Its has real g10, the blade is 440c. Its my favorite knife and i carry it every day. Maybe one day ill come across a real one but until then im happy with what i have.
I have 1 clone, AD20, as it is unobtainable in my country, and it was like 50$ for a clone from china with shipping. I bought it just to see the action and ergo of the original, if I will like it, or not.
and it's full titanium, just D2 blade steel.
Ps. And yes, there’s a clear difference in logo on the „D” on the blade, so you know it’s a clone, not original.
PPs. I also have original shark cub in G10, and I like action of AD20 much more.
One direction I have found for some custom makers that I can not afford to get a knife from or their books are not open is to find one of their designs that have been made in production. I have done this with Tom Mayo, Les George, and hopefully soon with Dalibor Bergam. I do however want to get a clone of one of my grail knives just to compare to the original. I might do that with the SPK Lamia.
Let’s be honest, in most cases you get what you pay for. A clone is cheaper for a reason, cheaper steel and other materials. I don’t care for clones. I do my research and for the most part know what I’m buying and understand the price point. Thx
As long as there is an obvious way to tell, like the logo not being copied, I think it's fine
I pass along any clones I buy to my daughter when I buy the real deals. She's 12 and already has a nice sized collection (only a handful are clones.)
If I’m considering an expensive knife I always buy a less expensive one similar to it to test out the idea as closely as I can. I’ve never dabbled in clones but I can see the idea of doing so being a test run.
Interesting. Asterisk for Amazon as "major retailer" IF you consider them in that group that would/should not have counterfeits. I contacted Kershaw after getting a Blur and Leek via Amazon, they check out, but Kershaw told me that even though they legitimately sell to Amazon, due to Amazon's sourcing and resale practices counterfeits DO get mixed in with real deal, thus they can't guarantee autheticity of *anything* bought via Amazon. Yipes.
My email reeaction was "well if that's the case and you go so far as to put a note on your website cautioning against counterfeits then why are you selling to Amazon at all?"... and of course crickets.
Duh, Amazon is a cash cow, Kershaw looks the other way I guess.
saw that single action otf from Maxace and it was like ...
The 1:1 stuff is annoying, but so are the "krate knives" or Vipertech
I just bought an Excalibur clone, and I have to say the quality is much more .....
JUST KIDDING METAL COMPLEX! I WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!!! just wanted to make ya sweat a little 😎
If I were a maker / designer, I would feel better about somebody buying a clone and realizing it's not for them. Other than buying my original and realizing that they hate it and wasted so much hard earned money. And on the flip side they buy the clone and realize yeah I really need to get the original.
I like clones, some are as good as the original. As long as people are open about it being a clone and dont try to pass it off as legit i'm fine with it.
This should be fun.
And it was. If you get a chance someone in the Facebook Kizer group posted one of your Kizer videos something about “of course they did”. And the hate is realllllll. Some guy embarrassing himself talking about you being paid by CJRB about your review of the Holm. It was tooooo funny. Even misinterpreted what you actually said about it.
@@joelamaro4525LOL
The sad part is these clones make it to pawn shops. They get marked up to close to retail of the real thing. So folks take advantage of selling clones as the real thing. People will buy them not knowing they got ripped off.
The Metal Complex Army will work diligently to take down the Excalibur clone sales pages. 😂
My go to box opener is a Shiro clone
In art we say, copy but make it better.
Walmart's getting greedy, the Ozark Grail should be $3, needs to be cloned 😤
I really only have a problem with counterfeits
Only ever dabbled in a shiro quantum ursus clone to know if I wanted to spend on the real thing, once I knew the answer I sold it (that wood inlay ursus is 🔥 and I’m looking for a good deal on the real thing)
Some people get upset probably behind on sezzle payments
I try to think of clones as flattering, but a forgery as insulting. Just like dalabor said if somebody can't afford my work but want the aesthetic then it's understandable.
I bought a clone of the Stitch and the lock broke. I bought a clone of the ad20 and the lock broke also a clone Bug Out and guess what….the lock broke. Lol
How many times have you seen people get scammed buying a clone thinking it was the real thing? Even if you are open about it being a fake and later sell it as a fake it could be sold as real later on.
I n've got 5 real clones. Two Bugout. 1 PM3, 1 Demco, and one Reate Exo gravity knife. So cool. Of course it's not the sale quality. But the real ones are so fu... exoensives. Then, i could buy them and pocesed some knives i couldn't get ..! ^^
What is the Spyderco in the lower right with the silver scales?
Shaman
I think it’s a Shaman
that's a Shaman. your welcome
It’s the bodacious with after market titanium scales.
@@jerrykotrokois3050 Nah, it's a shaman. I pulled one of mine out of the box and compared it. the shape of the scales up around the pivot give it away. it just looked different sitting out there with those other knives in those silver metal(Ti?) scales.
The Striders I like all go for $1,700.00 or more.
Knife flippers are the real problem.
if there is a hawk knife rook clone, i would be interested even if im against clones but i just want to have something like the knife without paying tousands of dollars
or idk if another brand does a 95% clone but official just like watch brands are doing and its legal idc
Clones of any product are no different than a reprint of a famous painting. You want it but can’t afford it. I’ve had arguments with multiple people who complain about products but have reprints of Dali or Van Gogh paintings on their wall. It’s a true test to your product quality as well. If a knockoff company can get real close to your 1000% more expensive knife, maybe you’re overcharging.
Or... again... they're doing it somewhere that allows for much lower labor costs... and using more automated processes... and cutting corners... etc etc. Same story
PooPoo town trash ? I think thats a couple towns over from where i live.
I've said it elsewhere, I was shocked and angered when the clone of a Microtech Combat Troodon Signature series, with Ultem and Magnacut D/E blade, locked up much tighter and fired faster/ harder than the original version (over $650) that I own. And it cost literally 1/10th what Microtech charged. Sure the blade is probably actually D2 and not Magnacut (I think this might have been one of the first production examples of Microtech using Magnacut?) but it's inexcusable that the "real" knife have a looser blade than the ostensibly crappy Chinese copy. Real Ultem and everything else, it is incredibly hard to tell the difference. But if you know what to look for, it jumps out at you.
The chinese have always copied a design and found ways to improve it. Not to mention make it at a fraction of the price. Pretty cool i think.
I don't like 1:1 copies, if you don't have your own ideas, don't bother. Similar design elements are OK, as long as the overall impression stands out and shows its own character, for example the Kunwu Padre is similar to the Rotten design, but not a mere copy.
Too many good original designs at any price to buy a clone. No thanks.
When I first got big into knives when I had adult money to spend(2020) I knew I always wanted a halo(thanks Jack Bauer). Well real halos, while still in production then, were like 850.
I got a clone, all it did was make me even more curious about Microtech..
while I never got a halo, I do have 2 hydras and a maxace Draco on the way.. plus I’ve got half a dozen other microtechs. May one day still add a halo, but they’re not the easiest to come by
To me, knife clones are pretty much plagarism and plagarism is illegal.
Just say no to clones.
But of course the real ones are better !! ^^
Just my opinion ,Buying cloned knifes takes away from all the work from the original designer and manufacturers. Its wrong in every way!
Covered this
i own benchmade clones, but thats cuz i hate lame anti 2a benchmade.
Don't think your opinion changed lol
Don't think you watched the episode
I understand it's not good for the real knife companies. But daesn't matter ..! ^^
It's the karma. The American and European companies ask cnChina to made them knives. They give their technics and knoledge. Then now, the China made them with their own companies !!
This is another reason I don't buy Chinese knifes. Theft from other peoples hard work
You talk WAYYYYY too much. Get to the point.
I bought a clone Microtech to see if I would actually like carrying one before I dropped real money on one. I’d say I’m a pro clone person. As long as you’re not trying to pass it off as real. My best friend has a clone reate exo b.c he loves mine but isn’t willing to drop the price tag on a real one