I'm native french and once in school I had a really good english teacher. We didnt do a lot of grammer (like 4 times in the year) and we were more talking about random topics in english. We didnt have a textbook and we were also watching a serie the whole year. after this year my english really improve even if we didnt practice grammar and explicite language. This teacher was really the best So I can totally agree with this video!
@@tangente00 i mean, as a person that has been speaking french since basically going to school even as a non-native (so you could say my french is at the same level as natives), the language is super weird when you think about it, for example the "S" sound could be written as "s", "ss", "sc", "c", "ç" "t" according to how you put it, you could say salut (hello) or information, both of them contain an S sound, in salut obviously its the s, in information its the t, and this is just one of them, french is filled with those.
@@tangente00 Lool it was inefficient for me too. Because I was mostly learning to pass exams back then. It's much easier when you (a) actually want to learn the language, and (b) can study it properly (in terms of knowledge, resources, time, etc). Since I've been interested in learning it myself, learned how to study it better than just doing some practice tests in a classroom, and didn't have the stress of all my other classes and the need to study them too, my progress went up way faster.
When children acquire their own language, it is all implicit until they begin school. By the first day of kindergarten, they can understand and make themselves understood very well. Only then do they begin learning the explicit concepts of their language, like grammar, spelling, reading and writing. Very interesting, Yuta.
"When children acquire their own language, it is all implicit until they begin school." - and it takes them six long years at least to acquire basic understanding, constructing sentences, pronouncing words correctly and having a basic knowledge about the world. Six years is a pretty darn long time to have the basic knowledge in a language.
A child at three speaks their own language way better than someone who has been learning that same language purely through a traditional grammar focus textbook for the same amount of time. I think the most efficiency is to be found somewhere in the middle @marikothecheetah9342
I am not a native English speaker. I spent most of my school life studying the language and didn't learn much. It was only when I started to read a novel written in English that my understanding of the language improved. I just started reading and whenever I found a word that I didn't understand I would look it up on google translate. I also looked up grammar rules when I couldn't understand what a sentence meant(things like if the sentence was in the singular or plural, verb tenses, etc.). After a while I started watching YT videos in English(first with English subtitles on and later without them.), and nowadays I can understand pretty much all of the English content that I consume. I think that having plenty of input in your target language while also studying the rules when you need them is a great approach to language learning. I've been doing this while studying Japanese and I'm making good progress even though it is definitely harder than English was due to Japanese having THREE f-ing writing systems which makes it harder to start reading from the beginning.
kinda samey for me. Learned english from 5th grade to 8th and was okay. Especially after I learned that the vocab is in the back of the books XD. But when I started watching simpsons in english I realized I do understand some parts and watching more boosted my capabilities. Same later after finishing school I foudn SciShow and that was difficult to understand because of all the science terms. But some stuff you still understand and today I just listen to it in the background and still understand it. Sure I forget more than I hear but still I understand it :)
I have a question for people that learn from reading, cuz I mostly don't read but I hear about how useful it is all the time. Do you re-read the same things over and over? Or do you just check the word, think "hmm that's cool" and then carry on until naturally over a long time they all just start to stick? When I read in the past I reread the same pages over and over until the words stuck, but that was too boring and I stopped after a few days...
@@DarkKnight4533 I just read stuff once because, as you said, reading the same stuff over and over again is boring. The point of reading is getting exposed to huge amounts of words being used in different contexts. In the beginning you will forget most words, but as time goes on and you get exposed to those same words time and time again, you'll start to remember their meaning and how to use them. The trick to reading a lot is to find materials that you find relatively easy to read. For example, I am using NHK's 'news web easy' site to read Japanese news written in simple Japanese, and Tadoku's free short stories to gradually get used to more complex Japanese. My plan is to be able to read regular novels by the end of this year. TL;DR: Find a topic that you enjoy reading about and just read as much as you can. Eventually you'll get better at your target language and will be able to read more complex stuff.
@@DarkKnight4533 when i started watching scishow i did translate words from time to time and stuff did stick or not. but to be fair i was quite good at english already. I guess you should have some basic knowledge and than as you say just read and hope it sticks. important for this is to read similar things so the vocab also repeats.
As for watching anime with English subtitles, the subtitles can be different from what the characters are actually saying on screen, which is why it's generally a very bad idea to rely on English subs if your goal is to learn Japanese by watching anime.
it also depends on the locators carrying over the nuances in speech for example, in yakuza 0, the translators did an excellent job at it and as i go past subtitles to hear how they speak, i pick up on a thing or two but on the opposite end, warriors orochi 3 and 4, both in their ultimate editions, offer very varied japanese to learn from (and insight into how to read classical chinese names) and one person that sticks out to me is a character called himiko - she speaks a japanese dialect and it's very apparent in wo3u the localization for the latter, unfortunately, doesn't seem to carry over that many little things that sets every way a character talks apart from one another
I think we all need to remember, that learning a language (and also learning anything else) requires years and years of practice. When we start something new, we will always be beginners. For me, textbooks are like a guide for learning new grammar over time. When you don't learn vocabulary, you won't understand sentences, because even if just one word is unclear, the whole sentence might not be understandable. Same for kanji (when reading). When you only read texts, you won't be able to speak. If you only speak, you won't be able to read. It all depends on your focus and what you want to do, but as long as we are doing progress and do not stop learning (even if it might feel slow, or slower than others) we will succeed
My parents were both diplomats. Something that I noticed early on was that my father, who was a professional linguist, and engaged in deep study of grammar, linguistic structures, etymology, etc. had a significantly more difficult time in day-to-day communication than my mother, who focused primarily on the language of daily life, with vocab and grammar coming after. Both are important, but there's a lesson here if someone is interested in friendly conversation first!
Your father probably had difficulty not because he didn't know the every day language but because he used concepts and words that were above average person's understanding. Nothing wrong with that, but levelling down can be difficult and it doesn't mean lack of ability, it just means different levels of knowledge.
I studied Korean for 6 years by textbook and had no problems texting friends, but when I moved to Korea, couldn’t hold a conversation until I started applying the language. After 5 years of just talking with people, my Korean improved a lot. A lot of things I learned was just by feeling. I started hearing different grammar points and understanding the context by conversation and then just naturally started using the expressions. I feel like it’s a cascading effect. I learned enough vocabulary and grammar but then needed to speak and listen to natural conversations and then learned even more vocabulary to keep up with the advancing topics and back to more speaking and listening.
I actually learned Japanese quite a bit through in-game chat (which is highly similar to texting). I also teach music, which provides me additional perspective on skill acquisition. From this experience I find that texting (and its equivalents) offer a unique way to develop skill in the language for three reasons: 1. It takes phonetic challenges out of the equation, allowing the learner to focus on all remaining aspects of the language 2. It extends the time available for the learner to process an input (or incomplete output) enormously. No more "he talks too fast;" if you can't speak fluently enough, you can also "speak" slower until you develop the "muscle memory" 3. It's easier to identify, isolate, and look up unfamiliar vocabulary or grammar. In live speech sometimes we can't even tell at which part of the input we stopped understanding, and then the speaker doesn't even know which part to explain.
The best video on this on youtube. Far too many videos on immersion get the academic side of completely wrong and end up saying stuff like 'just watch anime to learn japanese.'
thank you for this video, yuta! this was an extremely well constructed explanation of implicit and explicit language; I think i’ll switch up my study routine because of it!
This video is a goldmine. I enjoy the references and book quotes. I've been studying japanese for a long time but always had a hard time making my own sentences/having my own output. I'll go find input resources. Thank you for this.
Its off-topic for the overall video, but the issue you pointed out also perfectly demonstrates why the American education system in general doesnt work after a certain point since it also only teaches you how to answer test questions rather than actually apply anything in any given subject, its method of "teaching" is so engrained it makes sense this is the story of a lot of Japanese learners.
I am an advanced beginner, close to intermediate. I think the hardest challenge is to find interesting and comprehensible input in the form of TEXT AND AUDIO at this level. Steve Kaufmann: You read to learn to write and you listen to learn to speak. I could work my way through almost any Japanese content, but it would take a lot(!) of time, because I don’t know enough words. (Video games with text and audio logs, books combined with audiobooks, TV shows or Anime with Japanese subtitles… I tried a lot!) So I finally decided to go back to a textbook for now. I chose “Tobira: Beginner Japanese II”. My intention is to just use the stories and look up vocabulary and grammar only if necessary. (Ignoring the exercises etc.) I still own and know many textbooks, and I think this is the most natural Japanese I could find. So my goal is to use it until I can comprehend more authentic content “fast enough”.
I just learned about „Satori Reader“ recently and so far it makes a VERY GOOD impression: It’s a website/app with stories that are specifically written for Japanese learners. Inside the stories they repeat vocabulary, translate every word in that specific context and explain important grammar points when you click or touch on the word. It also comes with really good voice actors, at least for the story I am reading right now called „The Neighbor”. You can also save your unknown world together with their original sentence by clicking or touching. There are also discussion sections attached to every episode in case people still have unanswered questions about an episode of a story. Like nuances between words with similar meanings, an unexplained grammar point etc. The variety of content is also very good. There are even thrillers and scary stories. Of course, not everything is for free, BUT you can read two episodes of every series to see if it suits your needs. No subscription need at this point! The only downside is maybe that you can not adjust the text size in your mobile app and part of the UI feels a bit dated. Please keep in mind that I have been using it for just a few days. I’m just very happy right now because it seems way more fun than reading a textbook.
@@marikothecheetah9342 Hm, somehow my „update“ got missing. I recently stumbled across „Satori Reader“. They write short story series with Japanese learners in mind: - The repeat vocabulary and grammar inside their series. - If you click on a word or particle you get the right translation for the context. - Each episode has several grammar points they explain that you can also click on. - Each sentence has an English translation. - They have professional voice actors for their stories. (Listen to „The Neighbor“) - There is a support area below each episode. You can seethe questions and answers of other people and add your own questions. They usually reply pretty quickly. - They have flashcards combined with the original sentence(s) where you actually saw the new word. - The first two episodes of every series are free. At the moment this is my favorite learning method. But it requires you to be at least slightly above the beginner level.
I mean, it should be more a hybrid approach…using a textbook to learn the basics while immersing yourself in native content….a class/course itself can’t really teach you real life japanese either, it only teaches you the basics of what you need to know to get your hands dirty in the language. Even if a class introduces you to a “real life japanese phrase”, you will forget it right away unless you see it over and over again. It’s all about exposure and repetition….the more you see it the more familiar you are with it…I used a grammar book/website and a kanji app to study up to N1 (and a ton of anki) during my first couple of years. While studying, I was also immersing in native level content of my choosing all the way from the time I had just learned kana… Nowadays, 5 years into the language I don’t do any studying of any kind including anki. I just watch, read, play and listen to whatever I want in Japanese with barely any problems whatsoever….Now, I barely have any issues understanding any Japanese I care about understanding and every now and then, whenever I find a word/kanji I don’t understand I use 大辞泉 (JP only dictionary for vocab/phrases) and 漢辞海 or 筆順辞典 (JP only dictionary for kanji). But for me it all started using a grammar book (日本語総まとめ) and a kanji app (iKanji) designed to study for the JLPT…..and I never even took the test…..but I wouldn’t be where I am without studying for JLPT
@@nguyenduyminh2155 you know, a couple of years back I would have told you to start reading visual novels or even light novels and just “deal” with the difficulty. But recently I realized the only reason why that worked for me with Japanese was because I was very obsessed with the language (still am). It wasn’t until I started learning Korean that I realized what it really means to struggle while learning a language using content way above your level. So what seems to work for me (at least with Korean) is using graded reading material. I recently got into Beelinguapp, an app that gets you stories for all difficulty levels. Currently using it to learn Korean from Japanese. In my opinion what sets this app apart from others is that the difficulty it says the particular story is, it really feels like that is the actual difficulty the story is. For example, before Beelinguapp, I tried apps like LingQ and they just made me feel like I just wanted to rage quit. Not only were the stories boring but the simple stories were way too hard for me and that is just not a good combo. Another thing Beelinguapp has (and perhaps the most important) is that you can view in realtime a translation of the same story on the bottom half of the screen to the language you are using to learn your target language In addition, i usually get bored with stories that I don’t pick myself. Beelinguapp actually has stories I enjoy reading (I promise I am not getting paid to say any of this lol) Other services you could try are Satori Reader which is specifically for Japanese. I never used it myself but I’ve read nothing but good things about it. However, if you’re like i was with Japanese and want to skip any form of graded reading and just jump into ungraded native content, well it all depends on your tastes..but you will definitely struggle one way or another. If you’re into manga, everyone’s favorite starter manga is よつばと..I personally couldn’t get into it. I would recommend content with furigana like 鬼滅の刃、 未来日記 or プランダラ because even though you will still struggle (that’s inevitable), having to look up every kanji you do not know just to be able to look up a certain word so that you can enjoy the story is way too annoying and time consuming…if you can just look up unknown words and forget about looking up kanji you will enjoy the story a lot more.
As I stated in one of Yuta's other videos, when it comes to acquiring any skill, there are 4 levels of competence: 1. Unconscious incompetence This is the stage where you don’t yet know the degree of your incompetence. In other words, you don’t know what you don’t know. This stage is generally the most challenging, as you are unconscious of the fact that there are areas that need improvement or things you need to learn. People in this stage can’t recognize problems as they occur, so they generally don’t ask for help. 2. Conscious incompetence This is where you start to develop an awareness of what you don’t know. This stage can be uncomfortable because you must acknowledge your shortcomings. However, recognizing your shortcomings also motivates you to move forward and learn the skill so you can move beyond this stage as quickly as possible. 3. Conscious competence After dedicating yourself to the improvement of a skill through formal training, repeated practice and participation, competence grows and starts to show. At this stage, you have learned and practiced enough to perform a task with a degree of quality and independence. The task does take focus and attention that makes you slower than it would for someone more skilled. 4. Unconscious competence In this final stage, you have now internalized the knowledge you need to perform a task and perfected your practical skills. You also no longer require concentration or active thought. You can complete the required tasks with ease and speed. You are also capable of mentoring team members who are in an earlier stage of the learning model.
Unfortunately, in practice, you need qualifications if you're looking to achieve practical things using Japanese, such as getting a job for a Japanese company, or gaining a Japanese visa. So you can't just ignore the workbooks and the tests. And tbh, watching anime does actually work. It's very inefficient and the cap on what you can achieve through it is low, but it gave me a huge headstart once I started learning deliberately because a lot of the basic grammar was already familiar to me. I wasn't having to actively process sentences, just having to look up a lot of vocabulary. I never found myself needing to double-check the meaning of any of the common verb conjugations. And I was already confused by the difference between wa/ha and ga before any of the textbooks got to the point of making it confusing.
Thanks Yuta! This video comforted me with my worries about JLPT in the next two weeks. I was frustrated with how I couldn't keep my vocabulary and grammar intact in my mind. At the same time, I couldn't form sentences once speaking but I can understand simple slice-of-life manga when reading.
I'm an English teacher and this is unironically what we encourage children to do. Lots of input. I actually made an essay paper on the subject and observations I held about how children who consumed English speaking media actually have a better and more fluid mastery of English compared to those who don't. Not only is their English better but they're also way more comfortable speaking it and trusting in their own speaking skills.
That's definitely true I really want English teacher do the same thing you do Like tell the students to watch a lot of TV media in English In my experience I don't work go to a English classes because was so bored and the teacher explains all the grammatically rules and wherever stuff, at that moment I was in "begginer" student but at the firts time I open the textbook (all in English) I understand 90% And this kinda surprise me, afther a while I discover that input thing and I left the English classes
@@rafacs1.63 Fwiw, it's not suggested as an entry point AT ALL. Because this would actually be the equivalent of those who learn Japanese through anime. The problem in both is that the learner *starts* by that door. One just needs to be smart about his / her learning English as language is one of the most "active" learning subjects and you need to be very careful to avoid "bad learnings". On one hand, the English we teach is "Academic English" that is closer to "Older Adequate English" to say and sort of very slowly opening itself to slang, but it still is "proper casual" or "formal" English that can help you in the future. In short: It is good if you already have some mileage, not as a starting point. You need to know the rules in order to break them.
This is a pretty fantastic video. I have been doing/thinking these things subconsciously because it has just been whats worked. I have been saying vocabulary is the most important thing for me to learn because after I got a foundation of grammar, I can pretty much figure out the grammar or acquire it naturally. When you were talking about the implicit learning at the beginning, I was kinda disagree until you mentioned that was for grammar, but that explicit is more useful for vocabulary, and then I fully agreed with everything. Especially that context doesn't work like people say it does. I can count on one hand how many times I figured out a word from context and I have been learning for 2 years. Maybe after 5 years that works, but that is not a strategy for anyone who is still actively learning a language.
One thing that was hugely helpful for me was to listen to the Harry Potter audiobooks in Japanese fairy early on in my studies. I had read these books so often as a child that I knew the story and context really well, so even if I couldn't understand a lot of the input in Japanese, I could imply a lot from context and it taught me so many words and structures. Finding a source you know really well in your native language in Japanese is a great way to learn implicitly.
While it's true that immersion is a key component of language learning, it's also important to build a solid foundation before diving into native-level content. Textbooks and structured learning materials can provide that foundation, allowing you to gradually build your vocabulary and grammar knowledge. Then, when you do start consuming Japanese media, you'll be better equipped to understand and enjoy it. So don't feel discouraged if you're not quite ready for native-level content yet - keep building your skills at your own pace, and the immersion will come in time! The important thing is to find a learning method that suits you, and don't be afraid to seek out different resources or approaches if something isn't working. 🙂
It's pretty interesting how this video goes over some people's heads who try to frame it using concepts--such as "immersion" or "foundation"--that are already familiar to them when the video doesn't really discuss these things. This is another example of how second language acquisition is counterintuitive to some people, and it might take some active effort to understand it.
I am a person who learns best when things are presented in an organized way and my experience with textbooks has been great so far. Is it my "worst learning mistake"? The mistake is thinking that textbook is all you need. When I started with textbooks, I just used it as one of my learning tools. I have other tools to support me such as listening on RUclips, personal tutoring from real Japanese teachers, and actively writing (a diary) and speaking (to myself alone) the Japanese I have learned. I get that a lot of social media influencers are attacking textbooks and they have to advertise their channels, but for those who have already spent time with textbooks, you don't have to abandon them. You just have to add more tools to help with your learning and not solely rely on books. I am a fan of Mr. Yuta and I have been using his content as one of my "inputs" for learning. But I just gotta respond whenever textbooks are labeled as "problematic".
I always have two things when I learn a new language: a textbook and a phrasebook. Why? because phrasebook contains phrases that are used in every life situations and are very often fixed phrases, i.e. they do not change much even over time. Also, if I learn the rules of the language, or the formal version it's easier to go to slang and every day speech than the other way round, in my opinion, because you know which rules have been bent and how.
My school book back in middle school had this story that has stuck with me since: A teacher wanted to learn German so he spent 3 or so years studying by himself using textbooks and other academic material in his home. He eventually visited Germany but found he couldn't really communicate properly with the natives, finding trying to construct sentences very taxing. Disheartened, he returned home only to hear his young nephew speaking German better and easier than him. When he asked how he came to learn of the language, the nephew replied that he had made friends with some German kids over the internet last month, and since then they had been slowly but steadily conversing in their native language, and thus he was able to pick up on it.
The ばむ -> ばみたかった example isn't a good one. Such a たい-form drill is not for the sake of learning actual words. It's for the sake of having your brain get used to changing one form of a word to another. So even the ばむ example WOULD be helpful to someone who has no knowledge of how the たい form is created. Basically, unless you are surrounded by speakers all the time and are put in situations every day where you are forced to speak in order to live, implicit-only methods also have flaws. Why hear people use たい 100 times before you get a feeling of what it means rather than learning たい in a textbook once and then already recognizing it the next 99+ times you encounter it. Thus, I feel it is best to get explicit knowledge, meaning the way that words change, and how grammar generally works...that is, the framework of the language...and then add the comprehensible input immersion on top of that to gain implicit knowledge once you have a basic framework in place.
Sounds like you completely missed the point. What you think works doesn't always work (although it might work), and that's why we need to do experiments to see if your hypothesis is true. And it turns out mechanical drills don't work the way most people think they work. It's worth paying attention to researchers who study the subject professionally and take their time to test their hypotheses rather than just relying on their intuition and assumptions. Researchers can be wrong (and they often criticise each other). So you can read the paper and find positional problems. But that's a very different thing from disregarding it and relying on your assumptions. Here's the paper if you are actually interested in learning about this more www.researchgate.net/publication/287446497_The_evidence_is_drills_are_OUT
@@ThatJapaneseManYuta I'm not necessarily saying that any specific research finding is wrong. My point was mainly that we come across new words all the time. As far as I'm concerned, the word ばむ could very well exist in Japanese. And because I know that む changes into みたい grammatically, I think that's a good thing to know on its own. I have rules in my head about how verbs change (and yes, you have to get it to the point where it becomes natural and it's more of an instinct over time). I am quite sure that at some point, immersion becomes much more important than textbook studying. However, studying grammar rules is a shortcut...a cheat sheet if you will...to get an idea of what the rules are. If you just start from immersion, even where you can look up every word you don't know, it would take longer to get an idea of how things work than just hearing or reading stuff and looking up words. The framework is also important. But the framework is just a framework, not the finished building. To create an actual building, the majority is built on top of and supported by that framework. But just notice how they generally build the skeleton of a building first before they fully furnish each room of it. It's the same with language. However, the framework building part should not take such a long time. Most of the time, I agree, should be spent building upon it.
> > I'm not necessarily saying that any specific research finding is wrong. Have you taken time to learn the research findings, though? From the way you wrote, it seems like you haven't (because you haven't addressed some key points and nuances of SLA). You haven't read the paper, right? It's actually very relevant to the point you brought up because it actually did experiments on mechanical drills so that we don't have to rely on our assumptions. I took the time to find the link so that you can easily find it. But you don't want to read it even then, so, to me, it seems like you are not willing to learn about this, which you don't necessarily know, and you'd rather make assumptions based on your personal intuition. I feel like you are willing to disregard decades of collective knowldge of people who dedicated their adult lives to this field, didn't take time to fully understand what's discussed in this video or check my sources, and simply state what it FEELS like is true to you. The research addresses a lot of points you brought up. It always amazes me that some people seem to think that they are so smart that they don't need to learn about the subject matter deeply to dismiss studies and what professional researchers have to say. Again, you don't need to deeply understand SLA to learn a language in practice, and your approach is probably good enough for you. You are allowed to say that you don't know a lot about SLA, but you feel like your approach is good enough for your personal goals. And that's a perfectly valid and practical thing to do. It's unrealistic to expect everybody to learn research papers and academic textbooks. But if you want to make your case about SLA or challenge research, it's not good enough to say, "It must be this way because I feel like it", especially when some people have actually done research on it. A lot of things in SLA is counterintuitive, so making cases based on your intuition and assumptions is a very bad idea. I've also made a mistake of making assumptions without learning deeply about SLA. But I realised that, and took my time to learn, and correct my mistakes.
@@ThatJapaneseManYuta Firstly, you are right. I did not read that full paper. I figured (rightly or wrongly) that I could make a comment on a video without reading a 20+ page paper. My main point was that while you talked about textbook drills and said "the focus is purely on the form", and used ばむ turning into ばみたい / ばみたかった to (as far as I could tell) put down drills because "it doesn't mean anything". My point was that if someone sees a new word ばみたかった in some context, then it shows their progress if they can guess that there is a verb ばむ that it comes from. Far from being something to be laughed at, being able to quickly and easily conjugate even made up verbs is a sign that you know what you're doing. Learners pick up new words all the time. And if they can immediately conjugate words immediately after learning them, so much the better, in my opinion. So that example of ばむ in itself says nothing about the validity of drills. As for research papers, the reason for them existing is that there is dissension between scholars. If there were no dissent, there would be no need for research papers. In fact, that paper states, "Ever since Krashen (1982) claimed that second language acquisition (SLA) was an implicit process unaffected by a focus on the formal features of language in the classroom, the profession has debated in some fashion or another the veracity of that claim". This research paper is just yet another piece of that debate, not the final word. They also say near the end of their paper, "To be clear, we also want to state what we are not claiming. By claiming that drills are not necessary and in some cases can hinder acquisition, we are not saying that no focus on form is necessary or that we are against instruction of any kind. Our position is clearly different from the position taken by Krashen (1982) and others. We are obviously advocating some kind of focus on form, given the research we have been involved in regarding PI." And what is an example of PI? According to that paper, "Using knowledge about the effects of the first noun principle on input processing, a PI lesson on the causative would first begin with a brief explanation of what the structure is and looks like. Following this, learners would be told that they have a tendency to process the first noun as the subject of the verb but that this is inappropriate for this structure. Subsequently, they would work through written and aural structured input activities in which they are pushed to process sentences correctly." That sounds an awful lot like giving students the "structure" of a language, i.e. that "framework" that I was talking about in my prior comment.
Now we are talking. > I figured (rightly or wrongly) that I could make a comment on a video without reading a 20+ page paper. Of course, you can. But if you make claims about specific points I mentioned in the video based on your intuition and assumptions while disregarding my source, I'd want to challenge you. > As for research papers, the reason for their existence is that there is dissension between scholars. If there were no dissent, there would be no need for research papers. In fact, that paper states, "Ever since Krashen (1982) claimed that second language acquisition (SLA) was an implicit process unaffected by a focus on the formal features of language in the classroom, the profession has debated in some fashion or another the veracity of that claim". This research paper is just yet another piece of that debate, not the final word. And what's the point you are trying to make? Are you trying to say that since there are disagreements, you don't have to learn what kind of research they've done so far, what they found out, and what we don't know? If that's your point, I disagree. It's beneficial to learn about these things so that we know what we know, what we don't know, what theories and hypotheses exist, and what's been tested. You won't know everything, but it'll be far better than simply replying on your intuition and assumptions. > They also say near the end of their paper, "To be clear, we also want to state what we are not claiming. By claiming that drills are not necessary and in some cases can hinder acquisition, we are not saying that no focus on form is necessary or that we are against instruction of any kind. Our position is clearly different from the position taken by Krashen (1982) and others. We are obviously advocating some kind of focus on form, given the research we have been involved in regarding PI." And what point are you trying to make exactly? Mechanical drills are not the only way of focusing on form. There are different ways, and the paper focuses on a specific thing: mechanical drills (and also PI). Your quote above simply acknowledges that the scope of the paper is mechanical drills (like the ばむ example), and it's not about other ways of focusing on form. > And what is an example of PI? According to that paper, "Using knowledge about the effects of the first noun principle on input processing, a PI lesson on the causative would first begin with a brief explanation of what the structure is and looks like. Following this, learners would be told that they have a tendency to process the first noun as the subject of the verb but that this is inappropriate for this structure. Subsequently, they would work through written and aural structured input activities in which they are pushed to process sentences correctly." Read your quote again carefully and picture what PI (processing institution) is like. PI is not mechanical drills. The paper discuss PI as something that's distinctlyvely different form mechanical drills. "Well-articulated, meaning-based approaches predicated on what we know about the psycholinguistics of SLA are often better and certainly always as good as traditional approaches that make use of drills. We saw this most strongly in the case of the research on PI. We also saw it in the Farley and Silver studies in which significant gains were made in the absence of drills and pattern practice." Do you see the contrast? " We also saw it in the Farley and Silver studies in which significant gains were made in the absence of drills and pattern practice" > That sounds an awful lot like giving students the "structure" of a language, i.e. that "framework" that I was talking about in my prior comment. Your definition of "framework" seems too broad for a serious debate (although it might be good enough for a casual conversation between friends). You can, of course, define it more previously so that other people will know what you mean by it. Languages have different aspects so it will be helpful to be more specific. Research typically (but not always) focuses on more specific elements, such as acquiring specific verb inflexion. In this paper, in particular, the focus is on mechanical drills, not explicit metalinguistic knowledge as a whole (although it discusses it) and VanPatten's position isn't really no-interface.
Wow you just opened up my vision, i also didn't realize it until i watched this video, I'm a long time anime viewer, and just recently i decided to learn the japanese language, and i can understand some words might be from all the animes i had watched, thank you for helping me to choose the goal that i need..
In my high school, we were required to take a foreign language, and had a limited number of choices, so I took 3 years of Spanish. Now, I remember how to count to 30, and some other miscellaneous words, because we were taught toward the test, we focused on grammatical drills and vocabulary drills rather than learning to comprehend and use the language, and our textbooks even focused on very rare words such as "sequin" and "single-engine airplane", which I think I have never used in my life outside of when I talk about my old Spanish textbooks. Meanwhile, I've become conversational in Japanese through interacting with real-life inputs, translating a variety of family-friendly content with the aid of a dictionary, and engaging in real conversations when I am able. I can't describe when to use "wa" or "ga", but I have a sense of which one sounds natural simply from engaging with many inputs over time.
Sensei, as a learner myself and a classical music teacher, I think you're showing exactly why people take your explanation of language acquisition and then go right back to their textbooks, and I want to offer a way of thinking about the whole issue that might give you better explicit-to-implicit transferrence (in your terminology, stronger interface). In brief, people have a certain way of trying to accomplish any particular task, and in order to modify it (ex: for growth) the key is practice, i.e. doing it, less well at first and then gradually better if they're practicing effectively. However, we need to conceive of the task in a detailed manner. "Aural comprehension" isn't one skill so much as it is millions. English speakers already know how to decipher most Japanese phonemes, but they need to learn to listen to vowel length. The passive causative inflection isn't one skill; it's several: one to form it from the dictionary form, another to recognize it on a page, another to recognize it by sound. An exercise like the example you gave with a nonsense word is useful strictly for the grammatical manipulation when generating speech; actually using it while thinking about a subject in real writing or conversation is a separate skill. Done enough times, the learner will more easily notice when they see it used in some input thrown at them; in other words, their ability to comprehend it from a written or oral input increases somewhat. It can be the starting point for successfully processing that input the first few times, which then increases the probability they will succeed again in processing that input. It's less effective than reading or listening for practicing comprehension. Similarly, reading and listening are less effective than dry exercises (such as your bamu example) for practicing production. If you raise a student only on comprehension exercises, at best they will be really slow and choppy when they first try to speak. To summarize, conceptualize language ability as a highly interconnected web of tiny skills, any of which can be targeted with examples (or exercises - any input is an exercise in multiple skills). This model of language ability also explains why explicit exercises are more effective at beginner stages and why straight memorization is somewhat more effective for vocabulary. For the first, when there are so many skills to be learned, anything is progress; for vocabulary, the connection between the word and what it refers to is a big part of the skills that constitute that word. As for your own way of teaching, I have a question - how much experience do you have where you're teaching a student live and watching their progress in detail? That's very different from designing a course, sending it out en masse, and then collecting incomplete data samples on a very limited number of variables. The change in a student's ability is to you, the teacher, as informal critique from native speakers are to your students. More input is the only way you can anticipate what your teaching materials will accomplish. The various studies and research you have read are secondhand input with intelligent commentary, so they have some value too. And then when you offer explanations to other language learners, they don't necessarily understand that their way isn't good. Part of the reason is confirmation bias - they think their way works and don't want to think that it doesn't work. Part of the reason is that your explanation just sounds like information to them and humans are in general very bad at taking the initiative to think about implications when someone tells them something that looks like mere information. They're more likely to change their ways if you show them what they're cheating themselves out of.
i hate it, when example verbs are ichidan - like taberu(食べる) because i need to know that tai changes the last letter to i, so it's -(i)tai. if i don't know te change of letter, then i will take a godan verb - aruku(歩く) and turn it into arukutai(歩くたい) instead of arukitai(歩きたい).
One thing I learnt early is that there's a difference between fluency and comprehension. I used to take Japanese classes with a diverse group of students. There was a really ditzy Australian girl who dropped out of high school, yet she spoke very fluently. Everyone was kind of cautious around her because she could just whip off a bunch of Japanese. Later, talking to one of the teachers, he told me that she sounds fluent, but her comprehension was actually fairly low, and the things she said were basically meaningless. She just had a great way of sounding fluent, but there was no substance. Teaching English in Japan, I have seen the same thing with students. There are some very fluent English speaking students who spent time abroad, yet they're not always the best at comprehension. Some of the students who never went abroad, were just smart, paid attention, understood the content of passages, and could concisely summarize a reading or listening passage. When I was younger, I thought fluency was the most important thing, but now I think comprehension is much more important. So, sounding fluent and not being able to pass N3, for example, is not necessarily better than being able to pass N3 and struggling with fluency.
The main benefit of Japanese language school is that it forces you to study for hours a day. You can tell that they are teaching you really inefficiently but it's still just 4 hours a day that I spent attempting to get better at Japanese. And I had to because my visa in Tokyo was dependent on me being in school. But I learned so much more out in the real world just in random small interactions with Japanese people. Anyone have any good suggestions for content to input for a solidly intermediate Japanese learner who can read most simple subtitles (though I definitely won't necessarily understand them) but isn't super interested in anime or terrace house?
I've watched anime for 10 years now and It has really improved how much I could understand. The important thing is to always pay attention to what they say and you'll end up remembering the common words. And never watch dub. Also, the tabesaserareta part was helpful. Cause I often hear them say in anime, "Sase nai" which means "i won't let you do " So that's probably the same word.
I think you're right. You absolutely need explicit knowledge and input. I think some people focus too much on just input (matt v japan), but that is discouraging, imho. I think getting to around n3ish level helps a lot with input. But also pay attention to your strengths and weaknesses. For example my kanji is around n2 but listening is maybe n3ish but forming sentences on my own is much lower. So i need to focus on that.
22:17 Good point, but also when you hear about any research papers in any field, you have to think what they actually studied and if it's the same as the presented sound bite.
Yeah, I can vouch for that with English. I spent years learning it, from about 6 years old until around 19 years old in France, and I could barely hold any conversation or understand much. Then I met my ex-girlfriend from England who couldn't speak French, and I became fluent within a year. There were no textbooks or classes involved. I've changed my approach now with Japanese. I used to focus on textbooks, and while you get better bit by bit, I totally agree that it's far from the best way. I think learning the kana, some simple kanji, and going through a basic grammar book wouldn't hurt, but after that, you can pick up a lot of vocabulary by watching Netflix series or dramas in Japanese with Japanese subtitles. Tools like Language Reactor are amazingly good for that. I highly recommend it. And if you can, dating someone who speaks the language you want to learn but doesn't speak your language is also a great way to learn fast. However, I understand if this suggestion is a bit controversial.
I think this is exactly what I've always thought of as the "two types of students". Back in the day I thought some were "good at school" and got good marks in exams but couldn't apply any of it in real life even if they're life depended on it and some (myself included) didn't do so well in exams but it was mainly because they wanted to understand what the subjects were for rather than just memorizing.
Can you point me to research papers on effectives of comprehension based quizzes, especially the type of comprehension quizzes that we have? We try to avoid common problems with these quizzes by: - Not using quizzes for testing purposes because, as you said, if we teach something and test it by quizzing, they might end up just memorising answers. We don't do that. - Using quizzes as an incentive to actually understand the target sentences and dialogues because comprehension leads to acquisition. - Making sure that you can only answer questions if you understand the sentence. You can't answer our questions simply by choosing the words you see in our sentences. - Educating our students about language acquisition. We communicate that the purpose of our quizzes isn't testing and the most important part is understanding the sentences and questions. Because of this, our students often report that they learn a great deal by spending time to understand our sentences and dialogues rather than just speed-running the quizzes (which we make very difficult to do and discourage them from doing). On top of this, the paper I cited (www.researchgate.net/publication/287446497_The_evidence_is_drills_are_OUT) find out that "structured input activities" where students have to comprehend the input to answer questions are effective for acquisition. But if you can cite relevant papers, I'll be more than happy to take a look at them!
Incredibly informative Yuta. You put my thoughts into words. Of the examples you gave I'm the latter. I can keep up with most everyday conversations, but when it comes to JLPT N4 (even after months of studying), I struggle. The conversations I'm reading in the tests and online courses are way different than the conversations I'm having with them. Grammer has never been my strong suit. And even though I understand most of the kanji when written in furigana, the kanji characters themselves are difficult for me to remember. But let's be honest here. If you want to work or ect. in Japan It does not matter how good your Japanese is; none of it matters if you do not have the right documentation. In other words, have at least JLPT N2. And I can understand at least somewhat why.
This is exactly my situation. I had to take 4 semesters of Japanese and although I made some progress I couldn’t hold a conversation without pausing to think after every sentence to interpret, come up with an answer in English and translate that to Japanese. But now I’m practicing trying to understand everything I hear without thinking in English.
I am taking the JLPT tomorrow but I don’t have the confidence I will pass. But I decided after taking it I am going to change my way of learning Japanese. At least the test will show me where I need to focus on. I know ever since I became an adult I have been “studying” Japanese wrong, which is why I have been learning the language for 15+ years and still am not confident. I live in Japan so it should be easier. But being an ALT and way too busy to socialize, it has been a slow process. Everything is in English around me, hoping to switch jobs so I am forced to interact in Japanese. (But I need to JLPT test for a job like that)
This is how I learned English language, I sucked in school learning English, so I started to listen and pay attention to movies and songs until I got the hang of it. I'm doing the same with Japanese, I'm not focusing on the JLPT I just listen the average life Japanese youtuber or Vtuber talk and after 5 years now I can get an idea what they are talking about, with out the need of subtitles.
Two questions! One, what is your maiden tongue? Just out of curiosity, your grammar and punctuation are bettee than most English speakers. 😂❤ Two, what Japanese RUclipsrs/Vtubers do you watch? I've been hearing so many people learning Japanese by doing this and speaking to other people who speak Japanese on things like VRchat, and they are extremely fluent! I have watched anime which has helped, but I can't really get pass very basic conversation and a small Hiragana reading level.
@@masterjunko I'm a Mexican born, Spanish speaker, in school I was really bad in my English language classes I was at the lowest scores. I like English but the classes were not helping so I decided to watch movies in English first with Spanish subtitles then once I knew the dialogues and plot, I switched to English audio and English subtitles to understand the pronunciation and sentences. Playing with video games that have dialogue text boxes helps a lot too. Listening to music and reading the lyrics then translating and understanding the translation helped too. For Japanese I use a different approach, I watch JP youtubers and Vtubers because they speak natural, not in a setting like a movie, just to get used to the way they talk, pronunciation get my ears used to the talk, I pick my favourite japanese words and I try to spot them when they are used while talking. Another way is, learn sentences that are basic often used. First I learn as much Hiragana and Katakana as possible and how they are pronounced, this is to be able to read basic signs. Then basic words like "Water" "Exit" "Hello" how the seasons are called in Japanese, "Day" "Night" "Sun" "Earth" "Sky" "Dirt" "Rock" Then I learn and memorize basic sentences like "How much is this?" "Can I get a glass of water" "Where can I find this", I try to memorize this small sentences until they are ingrained in me, then I move to bigger and more complex sentences that you would use in real life like "I've never heard of that" What do you mean?" "Oh! I'm sorry" and I memorize this sentences to the core, create your own library of words that you would normally hear on the street or in normal conversations. (It took me years to learn English and it has been almost 5 years so far learning Japanese but I can at least understand basic sentences or get an idea what they are talking about.) I challenge myself to hear Japanese people that speak fast and try to "fish" words I can understand and fill the gaps, its all about training your ear. Choose topics you would usually use in your average life, and learn small sentences in Japanese and memorize them. For example I like video games and movies so I would do this I learn sentences you would use in those two like "Wanna play some games?" "I've never played that before" "Wanna watch a movie?" "I've heard this movie is bad/ is good". Stuff like that.
English subtles helped me get familiar with learning words. There are often times where a character says only one thing surrounded by bits of silence and it can help you learn the phrase to the point you may just think it in the right context on accident. On its own of course it wont be helpful because you know one phrase and thats it but itll help you learn what progress is like so you can learn other phrases.
I fully understand that to start speaking a language you should actually SPEAK IT, but my social anxiety and silly fear of mistakes do not let me do it, despite my JLPT level is N3+. So here we are - I can understand a lot, watch dorama/anime without subtitles and even read books, but I can not say anything. When I'm trying to form a thought, I easily get switched to grammar rules and always need to check whether everything is alright with the meaning in the context, if it sounds natural. But, to be honest, I really like studying grammar, all those structures, etymology and so on, it doesn't seem for me like a burden. The thing is I forget everything easily without practice, without using it. On the other side - _speaking_ Japanese is not my main goal in learning the language, I do not speak a lot even in my native lang, but it is such a shame when you can't say something simple after years of studying The thing that kinda helped me improve my English speaking/texting is character AI, but I am not really sure if AI is good with Japanese
I've learned alot of vocabulary just by watching lots of anime. Just hearing certain words over and over again. I'm studying Japanese now and watching Japanese interviews, watching Japanese livestreamers. To practice my listening.
I'm currently learning Japanese self study. heard it being spoken since I was a small child. I'm a hafu but not Japanese. My Asian side is Thai. I'm finding it a lot easier to learn as I already speak/read/write an Asian language. Your videos have been very helpful so far. ありがとうございます裕太さん😊
I think you need both. If you have no idea of the rules of the language, you won't understand a thing. Trouble with gaining rules implicitly is that it takes a long time for patterns to form and you can intuit incorrect rules. Explicit knowledge is faster and helps avoid mistakes. However, by itself explicit knowledge is not very useful. You can't pause after every sentence someone says and figure out what rules they used. You need practice with lots of real-life examples to make them automatic, as well as to help you pick up nuances and exceptions that explicit knowledge fails to give you.
Even if it might feel like that intuitively, it turns out language acquisition doesn't work like that, as we have been observing for a few decades. It's pretty interesting to learn about this if you are interested in it.
I'm French speaking . I don't learn from the JLPT book or Minna no nihongo. In Japanese language school, I have courses with Japanese native speakers. But it's only 1,5 hour by week, and we are 6-8 students, so it's not enough. I try to learn by myself, looking RUclips, Instagram free materials... But it's not enough. I went to Japan this year. I was able to express my toughts but for responses, it was difficult... I need conversation... But now, I live in Poland. There's no many Japanese living here, and all lessons are very expensive. I would like to teach French to some Japanese and he/she can speak Japanese with me. But I don't even know where to ask for it.
What works for me is at the beginning study using a textbook to get a feel of the language, also grammar is very important to understand, if you only try to learn via movies or videos you wont understand anything, how could you? After being aware of the base grammar and structures, it would be much easier to track them watching a movie or listening to a podcast
well, those who are capable of passing the N1 are also usually more or less capable of comprehending spoken japanese, and conveying their thoughts to a certain extent...
Shared this with my students who are currently learning Japanese! Some of them learn because they want to communicate but we also have students who learn Japanese in order to take JLPT. I wish they know why my method of teaching might have distinct differences. I think this video will help to boost my student's confidence more
In order to speak with my partner and have better communication, I had to learn practical day to day Japanese and had to use native Japanese dictionaries, watch Japanese RUclips etc. If you put the JLPT in front of me, I would fail it! But taking classes and using it every day is still helping me especially now
JLPT is and always will be just a side quest for me tbh lol Even JLPT N1 is really easy when compared with native books or some series or anime (depending on the theme)
JLPT N1 is the level of the last class of junior high. Japanese have another exam that covers knowledge above that, but so far only one gaijin has been allowed and passed it. It's mainly for natives only.
I think for most folks learning another language, it's most useful to learn frequently occurring "constructions" or "confabs", which are frequently heard "chunks" in a stretch of naturally occurring discourse.
This is honestly correct, because I've heard before that someone thought I was USAmerican, but no - I started out with Oxford English books as a kid, it's my second language, then I just kept talking to people online. Now it's slang galore. lol
I learned this lesson the hard way in Japan. I'd been studying (the wrong stuff, clearly) and the first time i tried to speak it, i got so lost after one sentence i quit even trying for the rest of my time there. Then i reached the wrong conclusion that i just didn't put in enough effort. I put in so much effort after that, i wasn't sleeping well. And wouldn't you know it... It got worse.
@@crunchymushy on my most recent trip, I hate to admit, I mostly used Google translate to write in English and show both version. I played the stupid lost foreigner + dad card and just listened. I was a total wimp about it. However, I did so some caveman Japanese when needed and just assumed they'd get the parts I couldn't articulate.
I totally agree with Yuta, Ive lived in Japan for over 30 years and the first 10 were focussed on passing JLPT tests etc… complete waste of time, as these tests even N2 did not help but actually hindered my ability to communicate naturally with the locals. Do Yuta’s course, he teaches you the practical spoken grammar nuances and vocab to communicate quickly and naturally with native Japanese… a huge positive differentiator imho.
I recently signed up for in-person Japanese lessons at a university in my city. I think will learn better if the classes are in-person rather than online video calls. I can already have simple conversations in Japanese and I bought a hiragana, katakana and kanji exercise book from a shop that imports Japanese goods as well as owning a booklet and two posters with all of the combinations of hiragana and katakana because I haven’t practiced writing Japanese at all yet.
In regards to drills, Minna no Nihongo's drills are useful to me for the sole reason that I don't have the English companion textbook. So in order to answer the drills, I have to figure out from the example sentences what kind of answer they want and what information from the associated graphics I should be using.
Yeah there's no way it's grammatically correct. Swapping it the other way, saying "I hope I *could*.." doesn't sound right either. It's like exchanging really and very, though it can be exchanged a lot, it can't be exchanged every single time ("You really shouldn't do that" vs "You very shouldn't do that."
It isn't because "could" is considered as hypothetical / located in the fictive or past. "Can" is located in the present but "wish" is itself considered as a verb "inviting a theory".
Thank you, Yuta! I find that I almost try to intuit to a "close enough" definition whenever I read input or do output because of context. Almost thinking it's more like a drawing than a hard code with a right or wrong answer. This feels very relieving to know I am on the right track.
3:04 As a native speaker, these examples sound weird and unnatural to me. "I can attend more meetings." is fine though. 8:02 "every Japanese people" is wrong. You can say "every Japanese person" or you can say "all Japanese people".
I 100% agree with your assessment. I working to pass JLPT N2 and I’m pretty close to it. I can easily read news articles or even scientific material that interests me….. however I can’t hold a fluid conversation. I think the JLPT is really a bad test that sucks the life out of learning the language. I hate the fact that I need to pass the JLPT N2 (maybe even N1). However this is required for me for employment in Japan… so I will suck it up until I pass and then do the right thing 😅
The purpose of learning a language was never about language tests, it's about understanding it and using it in daily life. Textbooks are fine, but sometimes its too cringe and might not be the authentic expressions. I used to suck at English, but I just kept going, writing journals in English, think with English, read English contents, speak with foreigners......That's how my English got better: to understand how the language really works in real life. Guess I'm gonna stick to the same method to learn Japanese.
Honestly makes a lot of sense, and I feel like that was my process to learn English. I mostly learned English through games and online MMOs. When I came to the US I could understand a lot and write but could not hold conversations, but after going through school, having conversations, watching series in English with subtitles, etc. that helped me refine it to the point it's like my native language now (actually, there's some words I can say in English but not my native tongue lmao). I feel like the time I progressed the most with English was when I used to watch a lot gaming playthroughs here on RUclips.
There’s something so much more encouraging about Yuta making these videos in imperfect English. It just shows it doesn’t matter if your language is perfect it really do about understanding messages and nothing more
Yuta would be in the top 1% of English speakers with this level of English. I’d actually imagine he’d be more insulted that encouraged by this comment.
I never said it was bad. His English is fantastic. I said it’s imperfect, which it is. He doesn’t sound like a native speaker and makes a few errors here and there which are minor but errors nonetheless. The fear of speaking with an accent or making mistakes keeps Japanese learners from speaking for years and years, if ever in some cases. I just think he’s a great example of it really not mattering much if you don’t sound native, but more about being able to convey yourself well. Would be surprised if Yuta is offended. Plus I said it’s encouraging to me, not him.
They taught us English implicitly in my highschool programme. It is pretty intense though. We had 4 hours of English class a week and all other (non-language) classes were taught in English from day one. Within months almost all kids could express themselves and by the end of high school almost everyone was proficient (C2 level). However, I wonder how this implicit method holds up when you half ass it. I have a feeling that if you put in 50% of the effort, you only get 25% of the results.
Japanese cannot be learned without formal study of the language. English and Spanish are extremely efficient languages. Japanese language is not as efficient. As a Spaniard, it took me a year to learn to read Spanish. Since then I can read any spanish word. Japanese children require 10 years to achieve the same. But even mastering these efficient languages requires study.I learned English when was an adult. It took me a great deal of effort and time to reach C2/1 level. I will never be as fluent as a native speaker child. However, the child needs to be educated in the language to master certain structures. Not everything is unconcious exposure and assimilation of the language.
while speaking my native language- Polish I tend to stop myself mid speaking and mentally conjugating words. Probably because everything is conjugated here. Also, I’m studying jlpt N4 now and grammar is a bit confusing for a Slavic language speaker and despite not able to speak in Japanese my teacher is surprised that I actually understand A LOT more from hearing. Yet I’m scared of speaking and I had had the same issue with English for many years until I went abroad. (the same reason - thinking about rules before saying anything). I just wish I could talk more with native speaker to get used to the language but it’s a bit tough task.
I think textbooks are helpful when you're first starting out, but you need to supplement this with native level reading and listening materials. Their main purpose of a grammar textbook is to teach you the basic grammar, nothing more nor less. Ideally, you would go over the basic grammar and once you learned enough of the basic grammar that it doesn't become an impediment, you transition to reading books and listening to native content that is right for your level, and slowly build your vocabulary knowledge that way.
JLPT only tests reading and listening comprehension as a multiple-choice, which means, in principle, someone could be presented with a text or listening passage, not understand much of anything, and still pass by guesswork (25% to 33.33% chance) and the process of elimination. Ideally, the JLPT would include a written portion. It doesn't even have to be a full-blown essay, but rather a few short written question that you can answer in maybe 2-3 lines each. This would test how much people taking the test actually know the language (you can't blindly guess the right answer). The JLPT exam committee don't do this because it would take more resources to grade written questions, but there's an alternative: crosswords! They are easy to grade (there's usually only 1 objectively correct answer for each row and column) and if done well it can test the breadth of vocabulary knowledge. Incorporating an oral interview into the test would also be ideal, but again it would take more resources. Also, N4 is hardly enough to be able to understand much of anything. You need to be at least around N3 level to even start to read and understand reading material for elementary school children.
Regarding Implicit vs Explicit for native English speakers (this is something that went viral on social media like 2 years ago): Have you even been listening to someone who isn't a native English speaker describing something with multiple adjectives, and they "use them in the wrong order"? Like they say "the black, big dog", and it just sounds wrong, but you don't know why? Well, there *is* a specific official order in English in which adjectives are to be listed based on the type of property they describe! But you were never taught this in school. You have to get into something like Master's level English courses for this to come up in class. Just based on hearing the various combinations of adjectives as you grew up, you learned what the order is, and it just sounds wrong to you if you use a different order.
Learn Japanese with me: bit.ly/4cy9Q4N
I think the worst mistake I'm making is procrastinating actually learning it
Same
fr
You may want to listen to what Lenora Yuen has to say about procrastination.
But be warned, it may help.
@@Herr_Vorragender I'll do it later
if you're procrastinating, It seems like you don't really like to learn it
I'm native french and once in school I had a really good english teacher. We didnt do a lot of grammer (like 4 times in the year) and we were more talking about random topics in english. We didnt have a textbook and we were also watching a serie the whole year.
after this year my english really improve even if we didnt practice grammar and explicite language. This teacher was really the best
So I can totally agree with this video!
8 years French in school and they only sentence I know is René ouvre la porte avec le plateu. Il y a huit morceaux de gateau. :(
@@tangente00 Hi, don't give up, French is a very tricky language with probably as many rules as it has exceptions.
N'abandonne pas! Courage !
yeah french as too many random rules lol even french people dont know them
@@tangente00 i mean, as a person that has been speaking french since basically going to school even as a non-native (so you could say my french is at the same level as natives), the language is super weird when you think about it, for example the "S" sound could be written as "s", "ss", "sc", "c", "ç" "t" according to how you put it, you could say salut (hello) or information, both of them contain an S sound, in salut obviously its the s, in information its the t, and this is just one of them, french is filled with those.
@@tangente00 Lool it was inefficient for me too. Because I was mostly learning to pass exams back then.
It's much easier when you (a) actually want to learn the language, and (b) can study it properly (in terms of knowledge, resources, time, etc). Since I've been interested in learning it myself, learned how to study it better than just doing some practice tests in a classroom, and didn't have the stress of all my other classes and the need to study them too, my progress went up way faster.
When children acquire their own language, it is all implicit until they begin school. By the first day of kindergarten, they can understand and make themselves understood very well. Only then do they begin learning the explicit concepts of their language, like grammar, spelling, reading and writing. Very interesting, Yuta.
"When children acquire their own language, it is all implicit until they begin school." - and it takes them six long years at least to acquire basic understanding, constructing sentences, pronouncing words correctly and having a basic knowledge about the world. Six years is a pretty darn long time to have the basic knowledge in a language.
@@marikothecheetah9342tbf its not like theyre running through an anki deck for vocab theyre just slowly deciphering it
@@aayanramts yup, and that takes helluva lot of time. I can use it for something else than spending six long years on "deciphering vocab"
A child at three speaks their own language way better than someone who has been learning that same language purely through a traditional grammar focus textbook for the same amount of time.
I think the most efficiency is to be found somewhere in the middle
@marikothecheetah9342
I am not a native English speaker. I spent most of my school life studying the language and didn't learn much. It was only when I started to read a novel written in English that my understanding of the language improved. I just started reading and whenever I found a word that I didn't understand I would look it up on google translate. I also looked up grammar rules when I couldn't understand what a sentence meant(things like if the sentence was in the singular or plural, verb tenses, etc.). After a while I started watching YT videos in English(first with English subtitles on and later without them.), and nowadays I can understand pretty much all of the English content that I consume. I think that having plenty of input in your target language while also studying the rules when you need them is a great approach to language learning. I've been doing this while studying Japanese and I'm making good progress even though it is definitely harder than English was due to Japanese having THREE f-ing writing systems which makes it harder to start reading from the beginning.
Without the first sentence, I would not guess in a million years you weren't native. Gl on learning Japanese!
kinda samey for me. Learned english from 5th grade to 8th and was okay. Especially after I learned that the vocab is in the back of the books XD. But when I started watching simpsons in english I realized I do understand some parts and watching more boosted my capabilities.
Same later after finishing school I foudn SciShow and that was difficult to understand because of all the science terms. But some stuff you still understand and today I just listen to it in the background and still understand it. Sure I forget more than I hear but still I understand it :)
I have a question for people that learn from reading, cuz I mostly don't read but I hear about how useful it is all the time. Do you re-read the same things over and over? Or do you just check the word, think "hmm that's cool" and then carry on until naturally over a long time they all just start to stick? When I read in the past I reread the same pages over and over until the words stuck, but that was too boring and I stopped after a few days...
@@DarkKnight4533 I just read stuff once because, as you said, reading the same stuff over and over again is boring. The point of reading is getting exposed to huge amounts of words being used in different contexts. In the beginning you will forget most words, but as time goes on and you get exposed to those same words time and time again, you'll start to remember their meaning and how to use them. The trick to reading a lot is to find materials that you find relatively easy to read. For example, I am using NHK's 'news web easy' site to read Japanese news written in simple Japanese, and Tadoku's free short stories to gradually get used to more complex Japanese. My plan is to be able to read regular novels by the end of this year.
TL;DR: Find a topic that you enjoy reading about and just read as much as you can. Eventually you'll get better at your target language and will be able to read more complex stuff.
@@DarkKnight4533 when i started watching scishow i did translate words from time to time and stuff did stick or not. but to be fair i was quite good at english already.
I guess you should have some basic knowledge and than as you say just read and hope it sticks. important for this is to read similar things so the vocab also repeats.
As for watching anime with English subtitles, the subtitles can be different from what the characters are actually saying on screen, which is why it's generally a very bad idea to rely on English subs if your goal is to learn Japanese by watching anime.
Things i just realize recently
it also depends on the locators carrying over the nuances in speech
for example, in yakuza 0, the translators did an excellent job at it and as i go past subtitles to hear how they speak, i pick up on a thing or two
but on the opposite end, warriors orochi 3 and 4, both in their ultimate editions, offer very varied japanese to learn from (and insight into how to read classical chinese names) and one person that sticks out to me is a character called himiko - she speaks a japanese dialect and it's very apparent in wo3u
the localization for the latter, unfortunately, doesn't seem to carry over that many little things that sets every way a character talks apart from one another
I think we all need to remember, that learning a language (and also learning anything else) requires years and years of practice. When we start something new, we will always be beginners.
For me, textbooks are like a guide for learning new grammar over time. When you don't learn vocabulary, you won't understand sentences, because even if just one word is unclear, the whole sentence might not be understandable. Same for kanji (when reading). When you only read texts, you won't be able to speak. If you only speak, you won't be able to read. It all depends on your focus and what you want to do, but as long as we are doing progress and do not stop learning (even if it might feel slow, or slower than others) we will succeed
My parents were both diplomats. Something that I noticed early on was that my father, who was a professional linguist, and engaged in deep study of grammar, linguistic structures, etymology, etc. had a significantly more difficult time in day-to-day communication than my mother, who focused primarily on the language of daily life, with vocab and grammar coming after. Both are important, but there's a lesson here if someone is interested in friendly conversation first!
Your father probably had difficulty not because he didn't know the every day language but because he used concepts and words that were above average person's understanding. Nothing wrong with that, but levelling down can be difficult and it doesn't mean lack of ability, it just means different levels of knowledge.
I studied Korean for 6 years by textbook and had no problems texting friends, but when I moved to Korea, couldn’t hold a conversation until I started applying the language. After 5 years of just talking with people, my Korean improved a lot. A lot of things I learned was just by feeling. I started hearing different grammar points and understanding the context by conversation and then just naturally started using the expressions. I feel like it’s a cascading effect. I learned enough vocabulary and grammar but then needed to speak and listen to natural conversations and then learned even more vocabulary to keep up with the advancing topics and back to more speaking and listening.
“Just” 5 years…
@@poolcanyon "Just" talking with people
I actually learned Japanese quite a bit through in-game chat (which is highly similar to texting). I also teach music, which provides me additional perspective on skill acquisition. From this experience I find that texting (and its equivalents) offer a unique way to develop skill in the language for three reasons:
1. It takes phonetic challenges out of the equation, allowing the learner to focus on all remaining aspects of the language
2. It extends the time available for the learner to process an input (or incomplete output) enormously. No more "he talks too fast;" if you can't speak fluently enough, you can also "speak" slower until you develop the "muscle memory"
3. It's easier to identify, isolate, and look up unfamiliar vocabulary or grammar. In live speech sometimes we can't even tell at which part of the input we stopped understanding, and then the speaker doesn't even know which part to explain.
@@tabby7189 ah like VRChat?
@@soku330 no, text-only, like texting
The best video on this on youtube. Far too many videos on immersion get the academic side of completely wrong and end up saying stuff like 'just watch anime to learn japanese.'
thank you for this video, yuta! this was an extremely well constructed explanation of implicit and explicit language; I think i’ll switch up my study routine because of it!
My rule for ha / ga is: Just use the one that feels more right. They will understand
That's an amazing advice for beginners. Truely.
Btw, が is a more heavy は. In short.
Yeah... fantastic... feels right... I must've missed that lesson in all my other languages. :/
Yuta focuses on casual Japanese which often omits particles like は/が. Spoken Japanese ends up being much simpler and faster.
This video is a goldmine. I enjoy the references and book quotes. I've been studying japanese for a long time but always had a hard time making my own sentences/having my own output. I'll go find input resources. Thank you for this.
Its off-topic for the overall video, but the issue you pointed out also perfectly demonstrates why the American education system in general doesnt work after a certain point since it also only teaches you how to answer test questions rather than actually apply anything in any given subject, its method of "teaching" is so engrained it makes sense this is the story of a lot of Japanese learners.
I am an advanced beginner, close to intermediate. I think the hardest challenge is to find interesting and comprehensible input in the form of TEXT AND AUDIO at this level.
Steve Kaufmann:
You read to learn to write and you listen to learn to speak.
I could work my way through almost any Japanese content, but it would take a lot(!) of time, because I don’t know enough words.
(Video games with text and audio logs, books combined with audiobooks, TV shows or Anime with Japanese subtitles… I tried a lot!)
So I finally decided to go back to a textbook for now. I chose “Tobira: Beginner Japanese II”. My intention is to just use the stories and look up vocabulary and grammar only if necessary. (Ignoring the exercises etc.)
I still own and know many textbooks, and I think this is the most natural Japanese I could find. So my goal is to use it until I can comprehend more authentic content “fast enough”.
I just learned about „Satori Reader“ recently and so far it makes a VERY GOOD impression:
It’s a website/app with stories that are specifically written for Japanese learners. Inside the stories they repeat vocabulary, translate every word in that specific context and explain important grammar points when you click or touch on the word.
It also comes with really good voice actors, at least for the story I am reading right now called „The Neighbor”.
You can also save your unknown world together with their original sentence by clicking or touching.
There are also discussion sections attached to every episode in case people still have unanswered questions about an episode of a story. Like nuances between words with similar meanings, an unexplained grammar point etc.
The variety of content is also very good. There are even thrillers and scary stories.
Of course, not everything is for free, BUT you can read two episodes of every series to see if it suits your needs. No subscription need at this point!
The only downside is maybe that you can not adjust the text size in your mobile app and part of the UI feels a bit dated.
Please keep in mind that I have been using it for just a few days. I’m just very happy right now because it seems way more fun than reading a textbook.
I like Tobira, I think it's a really good textbook.
@@marikothecheetah9342 Hm, somehow my „update“ got missing. I recently stumbled across „Satori Reader“.
They write short story series with Japanese learners in mind:
- The repeat vocabulary and grammar inside their series.
- If you click on a word or particle you get the right translation for the context.
- Each episode has several grammar points they explain that you can also click on.
- Each sentence has an English translation.
- They have professional voice actors for their stories. (Listen to „The Neighbor“)
- There is a support area below each episode. You can seethe questions and answers of other people and add your own questions. They usually reply pretty quickly.
- They have flashcards combined with the original sentence(s) where you actually saw the new word.
- The first two episodes of every series are free.
At the moment this is my favorite learning method. But it requires you to be at least slightly above the beginner level.
I mean, it should be more a hybrid approach…using a textbook to learn the basics while immersing yourself in native content….a class/course itself can’t really teach you real life japanese either, it only teaches you the basics of what you need to know to get your hands dirty in the language. Even if a class introduces you to a “real life japanese phrase”, you will forget it right away unless you see it over and over again.
It’s all about exposure and repetition….the more you see it the more familiar you are with it…I used a grammar book/website and a kanji app to study up to N1 (and a ton of anki) during my first couple of years. While studying, I was also immersing in native level content of my choosing all the way from the time I had just learned kana…
Nowadays, 5 years into the language I don’t do any studying of any kind including anki. I just watch, read, play and listen to whatever I want in Japanese with barely any problems whatsoever….Now, I barely have any issues understanding any Japanese I care about understanding and every now and then, whenever I find a word/kanji I don’t understand I use 大辞泉 (JP only dictionary for vocab/phrases) and 漢辞海 or 筆順辞典 (JP only dictionary for kanji).
But for me it all started using a grammar book (日本語総まとめ) and a kanji app (iKanji) designed to study for the JLPT…..and I never even took the test…..but I wouldn’t be where I am without studying for JLPT
Do you have any recommendation of native content sources ? I'm currently N3 level and its so hard to find native content which fits me best
@@nguyenduyminh2155 you know, a couple of years back I would have told you to start reading visual novels or even light novels and just “deal” with the difficulty.
But recently I realized the only reason why that worked for me with Japanese was because I was very obsessed with the language (still am). It wasn’t until I started learning Korean that I realized what it really means to struggle while learning a language using content way above your level. So what seems to work for me (at least with Korean) is using graded reading material. I recently got into Beelinguapp, an app that gets you stories for all difficulty levels. Currently using it to learn Korean from Japanese.
In my opinion what sets this app apart from others is that the difficulty it says the particular story is, it really feels like that is the actual difficulty the story is. For example, before Beelinguapp, I tried apps like LingQ and they just made me feel like I just wanted to rage quit. Not only were the stories boring but the simple stories were way too hard for me and that is just not a good combo.
Another thing Beelinguapp has (and perhaps the most important) is that you can view in realtime a translation of the same story on the bottom half of the screen to the language you are using to learn your target language
In addition, i usually get bored with stories that I don’t pick myself. Beelinguapp actually has stories I enjoy reading (I promise I am not getting paid to say any of this lol)
Other services you could try are Satori Reader which is specifically for Japanese. I never used it myself but I’ve read nothing but good things about it.
However, if you’re like i was with Japanese and want to skip any form of graded reading and just jump into ungraded native content, well it all depends on your tastes..but you will definitely struggle one way or another.
If you’re into manga, everyone’s favorite starter manga is よつばと..I personally couldn’t get into it. I would recommend content with furigana like 鬼滅の刃、 未来日記 or プランダラ because even though you will still struggle (that’s inevitable), having to look up every kanji you do not know just to be able to look up a certain word so that you can enjoy the story is way too annoying and time consuming…if you can just look up unknown words and forget about looking up kanji you will enjoy the story a lot more.
As I stated in one of Yuta's other videos, when it comes to acquiring any skill, there are 4 levels of competence:
1. Unconscious incompetence
This is the stage where you don’t yet know the degree of your incompetence. In other words, you don’t know what you don’t know. This stage is generally the most challenging, as you are unconscious of the fact that there are areas that need improvement or things you need to learn. People in this stage can’t recognize problems as they occur, so they generally don’t ask for help.
2. Conscious incompetence
This is where you start to develop an awareness of what you don’t know. This stage can be uncomfortable because you must acknowledge your shortcomings. However, recognizing your shortcomings also motivates you to move forward and learn the skill so you can move beyond this stage as quickly as possible.
3. Conscious competence
After dedicating yourself to the improvement of a skill through formal training, repeated practice and participation, competence grows and starts to show. At this stage, you have learned and practiced enough to perform a task with a degree of quality and independence. The task does take focus and attention that makes you slower than it would for someone more skilled.
4. Unconscious competence
In this final stage, you have now internalized the knowledge you need to perform a task and perfected your practical skills. You also no longer require concentration or active thought. You can complete the required tasks with ease and speed. You are also capable of mentoring team members who are in an earlier stage of the learning model.
Unfortunately, in practice, you need qualifications if you're looking to achieve practical things using Japanese, such as getting a job for a Japanese company, or gaining a Japanese visa. So you can't just ignore the workbooks and the tests.
And tbh, watching anime does actually work. It's very inefficient and the cap on what you can achieve through it is low, but it gave me a huge headstart once I started learning deliberately because a lot of the basic grammar was already familiar to me. I wasn't having to actively process sentences, just having to look up a lot of vocabulary. I never found myself needing to double-check the meaning of any of the common verb conjugations. And I was already confused by the difference between wa/ha and ga before any of the textbooks got to the point of making it confusing.
Thanks Yuta! This video comforted me with my worries about JLPT in the next two weeks. I was frustrated with how I couldn't keep my vocabulary and grammar intact in my mind. At the same time, I couldn't form sentences once speaking but I can understand simple slice-of-life manga when reading.
I'm an English teacher and this is unironically what we encourage children to do. Lots of input. I actually made an essay paper on the subject and observations I held about how children who consumed English speaking media actually have a better and more fluid mastery of English compared to those who don't. Not only is their English better but they're also way more comfortable speaking it and trusting in their own speaking skills.
That's definitely true I really want English teacher do the same thing you do
Like tell the students to watch a lot of TV media in English
In my experience I don't work go to a English classes because was so bored and the teacher explains all the grammatically rules and wherever stuff, at that moment I was in "begginer" student but at the firts time I open the textbook (all in English) I understand 90%
And this kinda surprise me, afther a while I discover that input thing and I left the English classes
@@rafacs1.63 Fwiw, it's not suggested as an entry point AT ALL. Because this would actually be the equivalent of those who learn Japanese through anime. The problem in both is that the learner *starts* by that door.
One just needs to be smart about his / her learning English as language is one of the most "active" learning subjects and you need to be very careful to avoid "bad learnings". On one hand, the English we teach is "Academic English" that is closer to "Older Adequate English" to say and sort of very slowly opening itself to slang, but it still is "proper casual" or "formal" English that can help you in the future.
In short: It is good if you already have some mileage, not as a starting point. You need to know the rules in order to break them.
This is a pretty fantastic video. I have been doing/thinking these things subconsciously because it has just been whats worked. I have been saying vocabulary is the most important thing for me to learn because after I got a foundation of grammar, I can pretty much figure out the grammar or acquire it naturally. When you were talking about the implicit learning at the beginning, I was kinda disagree until you mentioned that was for grammar, but that explicit is more useful for vocabulary, and then I fully agreed with everything. Especially that context doesn't work like people say it does. I can count on one hand how many times I figured out a word from context and I have been learning for 2 years. Maybe after 5 years that works, but that is not a strategy for anyone who is still actively learning a language.
One thing that was hugely helpful for me was to listen to the Harry Potter audiobooks in Japanese fairy early on in my studies. I had read these books so often as a child that I knew the story and context really well, so even if I couldn't understand a lot of the input in Japanese, I could imply a lot from context and it taught me so many words and structures. Finding a source you know really well in your native language in Japanese is a great way to learn implicitly.
While it's true that immersion is a key component of language learning, it's also important to build a solid foundation before diving into native-level content.
Textbooks and structured learning materials can provide that foundation, allowing you to gradually build your vocabulary and grammar knowledge. Then, when you do start consuming Japanese media, you'll be better equipped to understand and enjoy it.
So don't feel discouraged if you're not quite ready for native-level content yet - keep building your skills at your own pace, and the immersion will come in time!
The important thing is to find a learning method that suits you, and don't be afraid to seek out different resources or approaches if something isn't working. 🙂
It's pretty interesting how this video goes over some people's heads who try to frame it using concepts--such as "immersion" or "foundation"--that are already familiar to them when the video doesn't really discuss these things.
This is another example of how second language acquisition is counterintuitive to some people, and it might take some active effort to understand it.
I am a person who learns best when things are presented in an organized way and my experience with textbooks has been great so far. Is it my "worst learning mistake"? The mistake is thinking that textbook is all you need. When I started with textbooks, I just used it as one of my learning tools. I have other tools to support me such as listening on RUclips, personal tutoring from real Japanese teachers, and actively writing (a diary) and speaking (to myself alone) the Japanese I have learned. I get that a lot of social media influencers are attacking textbooks and they have to advertise their channels, but for those who have already spent time with textbooks, you don't have to abandon them. You just have to add more tools to help with your learning and not solely rely on books. I am a fan of Mr. Yuta and I have been using his content as one of my "inputs" for learning. But I just gotta respond whenever textbooks are labeled as "problematic".
I always have two things when I learn a new language: a textbook and a phrasebook. Why? because phrasebook contains phrases that are used in every life situations and are very often fixed phrases, i.e. they do not change much even over time. Also, if I learn the rules of the language, or the formal version it's easier to go to slang and every day speech than the other way round, in my opinion, because you know which rules have been bent and how.
New Subscriber here.
Informative videos like these makes you different from other Japanese content creators. Keep it up Mr. Yuta.
My school book back in middle school had this story that has stuck with me since: A teacher wanted to learn German so he spent 3 or so years studying by himself using textbooks and other academic material in his home. He eventually visited Germany but found he couldn't really communicate properly with the natives, finding trying to construct sentences very taxing. Disheartened, he returned home only to hear his young nephew speaking German better and easier than him. When he asked how he came to learn of the language, the nephew replied that he had made friends with some German kids over the internet last month, and since then they had been slowly but steadily conversing in their native language, and thus he was able to pick up on it.
The ばむ -> ばみたかった example isn't a good one. Such a たい-form drill is not for the sake of learning actual words. It's for the sake of having your brain get used to changing one form of a word to another. So even the ばむ example WOULD be helpful to someone who has no knowledge of how the たい form is created. Basically, unless you are surrounded by speakers all the time and are put in situations every day where you are forced to speak in order to live, implicit-only methods also have flaws. Why hear people use たい 100 times before you get a feeling of what it means rather than learning たい in a textbook once and then already recognizing it the next 99+ times you encounter it. Thus, I feel it is best to get explicit knowledge, meaning the way that words change, and how grammar generally works...that is, the framework of the language...and then add the comprehensible input immersion on top of that to gain implicit knowledge once you have a basic framework in place.
Sounds like you completely missed the point. What you think works doesn't always work (although it might work), and that's why we need to do experiments to see if your hypothesis is true. And it turns out mechanical drills don't work the way most people think they work.
It's worth paying attention to researchers who study the subject professionally and take their time to test their hypotheses rather than just relying on their intuition and assumptions.
Researchers can be wrong (and they often criticise each other). So you can read the paper and find positional problems. But that's a very different thing from disregarding it and relying on your assumptions.
Here's the paper if you are actually interested in learning about this more
www.researchgate.net/publication/287446497_The_evidence_is_drills_are_OUT
@@ThatJapaneseManYuta I'm not necessarily saying that any specific research finding is wrong. My point was mainly that we come across new words all the time. As far as I'm concerned, the word ばむ could very well exist in Japanese. And because I know that む changes into みたい grammatically, I think that's a good thing to know on its own. I have rules in my head about how verbs change (and yes, you have to get it to the point where it becomes natural and it's more of an instinct over time).
I am quite sure that at some point, immersion becomes much more important than textbook studying. However, studying grammar rules is a shortcut...a cheat sheet if you will...to get an idea of what the rules are. If you just start from immersion, even where you can look up every word you don't know, it would take longer to get an idea of how things work than just hearing or reading stuff and looking up words. The framework is also important. But the framework is just a framework, not the finished building. To create an actual building, the majority is built on top of and supported by that framework. But just notice how they generally build the skeleton of a building first before they fully furnish each room of it. It's the same with language. However, the framework building part should not take such a long time. Most of the time, I agree, should be spent building upon it.
> > I'm not necessarily saying that any specific research finding is wrong.
Have you taken time to learn the research findings, though? From the way you wrote, it seems like you haven't (because you haven't addressed some key points and nuances of SLA). You haven't read the paper, right? It's actually very relevant to the point you brought up because it actually did experiments on mechanical drills so that we don't have to rely on our assumptions. I took the time to find the link so that you can easily find it. But you don't want to read it even then, so, to me, it seems like you are not willing to learn about this, which you don't necessarily know, and you'd rather make assumptions based on your personal intuition.
I feel like you are willing to disregard decades of collective knowldge of people who dedicated their adult lives to this field, didn't take time to fully understand what's discussed in this video or check my sources, and simply state what it FEELS like is true to you.
The research addresses a lot of points you brought up.
It always amazes me that some people seem to think that they are so smart that they don't need to learn about the subject matter deeply to dismiss studies and what professional researchers have to say.
Again, you don't need to deeply understand SLA to learn a language in practice, and your approach is probably good enough for you.
You are allowed to say that you don't know a lot about SLA, but you feel like your approach is good enough for your personal goals. And that's a perfectly valid and practical thing to do. It's unrealistic to expect everybody to learn research papers and academic textbooks.
But if you want to make your case about SLA or challenge research, it's not good enough to say, "It must be this way because I feel like it", especially when some people have actually done research on it.
A lot of things in SLA is counterintuitive, so making cases based on your intuition and assumptions is a very bad idea.
I've also made a mistake of making assumptions without learning deeply about SLA. But I realised that, and took my time to learn, and correct my mistakes.
@@ThatJapaneseManYuta Firstly, you are right. I did not read that full paper. I figured (rightly or wrongly) that I could make a comment on a video without reading a 20+ page paper. My main point was that while you talked about textbook drills and said "the focus is purely on the form", and used ばむ turning into ばみたい / ばみたかった to (as far as I could tell) put down drills because "it doesn't mean anything". My point was that if someone sees a new word ばみたかった in some context, then it shows their progress if they can guess that there is a verb ばむ that it comes from. Far from being something to be laughed at, being able to quickly and easily conjugate even made up verbs is a sign that you know what you're doing. Learners pick up new words all the time. And if they can immediately conjugate words immediately after learning them, so much the better, in my opinion. So that example of ばむ in itself says nothing about the validity of drills.
As for research papers, the reason for them existing is that there is dissension between scholars. If there were no dissent, there would be no need for research papers. In fact, that paper states, "Ever since Krashen (1982) claimed that second language acquisition (SLA) was an implicit process unaffected by a focus on the formal features of language in the classroom, the profession has debated in some fashion or another the veracity of that claim". This research paper is just yet another piece of that debate, not the final word.
They also say near the end of their paper, "To be clear, we also want to state what we are not claiming. By claiming that drills are not necessary and in some cases can hinder acquisition, we are not saying that no focus on form is necessary or that we are against instruction of any kind. Our position is clearly different from the position taken by Krashen (1982) and others. We are obviously advocating some kind of focus on form, given the research we have been involved in regarding PI."
And what is an example of PI? According to that paper, "Using knowledge about the effects of the first noun principle on input processing, a PI lesson on the causative would first begin with a brief explanation of what the structure is and looks like. Following this, learners would be told that they have a tendency to process the first noun as the subject of the verb but that this is inappropriate for
this structure. Subsequently, they would work through written and aural structured input activities in which they are pushed to process sentences correctly."
That sounds an awful lot like giving students the "structure" of a language, i.e. that "framework" that I was talking about in my prior comment.
Now we are talking.
> I figured (rightly or wrongly) that I could make a comment on a video without reading a 20+ page paper.
Of course, you can. But if you make claims about specific points I mentioned in the video based on your intuition and assumptions while disregarding my source, I'd want to challenge you.
> As for research papers, the reason for their existence is that there is dissension between scholars. If there were no dissent, there would be no need for research papers. In fact, that paper states, "Ever since Krashen (1982) claimed that second language acquisition (SLA) was an implicit process unaffected by a focus on the formal features of language in the classroom, the profession has debated in some fashion or another the veracity of that claim". This research paper is just yet another piece of that debate, not the final word.
And what's the point you are trying to make? Are you trying to say that since there are disagreements, you don't have to learn what kind of research they've done so far, what they found out, and what we don't know?
If that's your point, I disagree. It's beneficial to learn about these things so that we know what we know, what we don't know, what theories and hypotheses exist, and what's been tested. You won't know everything, but it'll be far better than simply replying on your intuition and assumptions.
> They also say near the end of their paper, "To be clear, we also want to state what we are not claiming. By claiming that drills are not necessary and in some cases can hinder acquisition, we are not saying that no focus on form is necessary or that we are against instruction of any kind. Our position is clearly different from the position taken by Krashen (1982) and others. We are obviously advocating some kind of focus on form, given the research we have been involved in regarding PI."
And what point are you trying to make exactly? Mechanical drills are not the only way of focusing on form. There are different ways, and the paper focuses on a specific thing: mechanical drills (and also PI). Your quote above simply acknowledges that the scope of the paper is mechanical drills (like the ばむ example), and it's not about other ways of focusing on form.
> And what is an example of PI? According to that paper, "Using knowledge about the effects of the first noun principle on input processing, a PI lesson on the causative would first begin with a brief explanation of what the structure is and looks like. Following this, learners would be told that they have a tendency to process the first noun as the subject of the verb but that this is inappropriate for
this structure. Subsequently, they would work through written and aural structured input activities in which they are pushed to process sentences correctly."
Read your quote again carefully and picture what PI (processing institution) is like. PI is not mechanical drills. The paper discuss PI as something that's distinctlyvely different form mechanical drills.
"Well-articulated, meaning-based approaches predicated
on what we know about the psycholinguistics of
SLA are often better and certainly always as good as
traditional approaches that make use of drills. We saw
this most strongly in the case of the research on PI. We
also saw it in the Farley and Silver studies in which significant
gains were made in the absence of drills and
pattern practice."
Do you see the contrast? " We
also saw it in the Farley and Silver studies in which significant
gains were made in the absence of drills and
pattern practice"
> That sounds an awful lot like giving students the "structure" of a language, i.e. that "framework" that I was talking about in my prior comment.
Your definition of "framework" seems too broad for a serious debate (although it might be good enough for a casual conversation between friends). You can, of course, define it more previously so that other people will know what you mean by it.
Languages have different aspects so it will be helpful to be more specific. Research typically (but not always) focuses on more specific elements, such as acquiring specific verb inflexion. In this paper, in particular, the focus is on mechanical drills, not explicit metalinguistic knowledge as a whole (although it discusses it) and VanPatten's position isn't really no-interface.
Am I the only one who caught the joke at 0:57 ? was searching the comments to see if anyone mentioned it lol
Insane 😭😭😭 i caught it too
Wow you just opened up my vision, i also didn't realize it until i watched this video, I'm a long time anime viewer, and just recently i decided to learn the japanese language, and i can understand some words might be from all the animes i had watched, thank you for helping me to choose the goal that i need..
21:23 the hiragana said "tabesaRErareta" but the romaji is "tabesaSErareta" i think it's my first time to see a typo in Japanese 😅
Thank you for these tips, Mr. Okkotsu! 🙏
bro ain't Rika boyfriend
Still has time to drop bangers while he's busy fighting Sukuna 🙏🙏🙏
In my high school, we were required to take a foreign language, and had a limited number of choices, so I took 3 years of Spanish. Now, I remember how to count to 30, and some other miscellaneous words, because we were taught toward the test, we focused on grammatical drills and vocabulary drills rather than learning to comprehend and use the language, and our textbooks even focused on very rare words such as "sequin" and "single-engine airplane", which I think I have never used in my life outside of when I talk about my old Spanish textbooks. Meanwhile, I've become conversational in Japanese through interacting with real-life inputs, translating a variety of family-friendly content with the aid of a dictionary, and engaging in real conversations when I am able. I can't describe when to use "wa" or "ga", but I have a sense of which one sounds natural simply from engaging with many inputs over time.
Sensei, as a learner myself and a classical music teacher, I think you're showing exactly why people take your explanation of language acquisition and then go right back to their textbooks, and I want to offer a way of thinking about the whole issue that might give you better explicit-to-implicit transferrence (in your terminology, stronger interface). In brief, people have a certain way of trying to accomplish any particular task, and in order to modify it (ex: for growth) the key is practice, i.e. doing it, less well at first and then gradually better if they're practicing effectively. However, we need to conceive of the task in a detailed manner. "Aural comprehension" isn't one skill so much as it is millions. English speakers already know how to decipher most Japanese phonemes, but they need to learn to listen to vowel length. The passive causative inflection isn't one skill; it's several: one to form it from the dictionary form, another to recognize it on a page, another to recognize it by sound. An exercise like the example you gave with a nonsense word is useful strictly for the grammatical manipulation when generating speech; actually using it while thinking about a subject in real writing or conversation is a separate skill. Done enough times, the learner will more easily notice when they see it used in some input thrown at them; in other words, their ability to comprehend it from a written or oral input increases somewhat. It can be the starting point for successfully processing that input the first few times, which then increases the probability they will succeed again in processing that input. It's less effective than reading or listening for practicing comprehension. Similarly, reading and listening are less effective than dry exercises (such as your bamu example) for practicing production. If you raise a student only on comprehension exercises, at best they will be really slow and choppy when they first try to speak. To summarize, conceptualize language ability as a highly interconnected web of tiny skills, any of which can be targeted with examples (or exercises - any input is an exercise in multiple skills). This model of language ability also explains why explicit exercises are more effective at beginner stages and why straight memorization is somewhat more effective for vocabulary. For the first, when there are so many skills to be learned, anything is progress; for vocabulary, the connection between the word and what it refers to is a big part of the skills that constitute that word.
As for your own way of teaching, I have a question - how much experience do you have where you're teaching a student live and watching their progress in detail? That's very different from designing a course, sending it out en masse, and then collecting incomplete data samples on a very limited number of variables. The change in a student's ability is to you, the teacher, as informal critique from native speakers are to your students. More input is the only way you can anticipate what your teaching materials will accomplish. The various studies and research you have read are secondhand input with intelligent commentary, so they have some value too.
And then when you offer explanations to other language learners, they don't necessarily understand that their way isn't good. Part of the reason is confirmation bias - they think their way works and don't want to think that it doesn't work. Part of the reason is that your explanation just sounds like information to them and humans are in general very bad at taking the initiative to think about implications when someone tells them something that looks like mere information. They're more likely to change their ways if you show them what they're cheating themselves out of.
i hate it, when example verbs are ichidan - like taberu(食べる) because i need to know that tai changes the last letter to i, so it's -(i)tai. if i don't know te change of letter, then i will take a godan verb - aruku(歩く) and turn it into arukutai(歩くたい) instead of arukitai(歩きたい).
One thing I learnt early is that there's a difference between fluency and comprehension. I used to take Japanese classes with a diverse group of students. There was a really ditzy Australian girl who dropped out of high school, yet she spoke very fluently. Everyone was kind of cautious around her because she could just whip off a bunch of Japanese. Later, talking to one of the teachers, he told me that she sounds fluent, but her comprehension was actually fairly low, and the things she said were basically meaningless. She just had a great way of sounding fluent, but there was no substance. Teaching English in Japan, I have seen the same thing with students. There are some very fluent English speaking students who spent time abroad, yet they're not always the best at comprehension. Some of the students who never went abroad, were just smart, paid attention, understood the content of passages, and could concisely summarize a reading or listening passage. When I was younger, I thought fluency was the most important thing, but now I think comprehension is much more important. So, sounding fluent and not being able to pass N3, for example, is not necessarily better than being able to pass N3 and struggling with fluency.
The main benefit of Japanese language school is that it forces you to study for hours a day. You can tell that they are teaching you really inefficiently but it's still just 4 hours a day that I spent attempting to get better at Japanese. And I had to because my visa in Tokyo was dependent on me being in school. But I learned so much more out in the real world just in random small interactions with Japanese people.
Anyone have any good suggestions for content to input for a solidly intermediate Japanese learner who can read most simple subtitles (though I definitely won't necessarily understand them) but isn't super interested in anime or terrace house?
Yuta Sensei's way of analysing things are extremely thorough and in-depth. ❤
This an incredibly well researched and informative video. Thank you Uta-san!
I've watched anime for 10 years now and It has really improved how much I could understand. The important thing is to always pay attention to what they say and you'll end up remembering the common words. And never watch dub.
Also, the tabesaserareta part was helpful. Cause I often hear them say in anime, "Sase nai" which means "i won't let you do "
So that's probably the same word.
I think you're right. You absolutely need explicit knowledge and input. I think some people focus too much on just input (matt v japan), but that is discouraging, imho. I think getting to around n3ish level helps a lot with input. But also pay attention to your strengths and weaknesses. For example my kanji is around n2 but listening is maybe n3ish but forming sentences on my own is much lower. So i need to focus on that.
22:17 Good point, but also when you hear about any research papers in any field, you have to think what they actually studied and if it's the same as the presented sound bite.
Yeah, news articles very often misrepresent research. If you actually read the pepper, it's almost always much more nuanced.
Yeah, I can vouch for that with English. I spent years learning it, from about 6 years old until around 19 years old in France, and I could barely hold any conversation or understand much. Then I met my ex-girlfriend from England who couldn't speak French, and I became fluent within a year. There were no textbooks or classes involved.
I've changed my approach now with Japanese. I used to focus on textbooks, and while you get better bit by bit, I totally agree that it's far from the best way. I think learning the kana, some simple kanji, and going through a basic grammar book wouldn't hurt, but after that, you can pick up a lot of vocabulary by watching Netflix series or dramas in Japanese with Japanese subtitles. Tools like Language Reactor are amazingly good for that. I highly recommend it.
And if you can, dating someone who speaks the language you want to learn but doesn't speak your language is also a great way to learn fast. However, I understand if this suggestion is a bit controversial.
I think this is exactly what I've always thought of as the "two types of students". Back in the day I thought some were "good at school" and got good marks in exams but couldn't apply any of it in real life even if they're life depended on it and some (myself included) didn't do so well in exams but it was mainly because they wanted to understand what the subjects were for rather than just memorizing.
Comprehension based quizzes almost always test recall, not understanding. Many ESL researchers end up avoiding comprehension quizzes too
Can you point me to research papers on effectives of comprehension based quizzes, especially the type of comprehension quizzes that we have?
We try to avoid common problems with these quizzes by:
- Not using quizzes for testing purposes because, as you said, if we teach something and test it by quizzing, they might end up just memorising answers. We don't do that.
- Using quizzes as an incentive to actually understand the target sentences and dialogues because comprehension leads to acquisition.
- Making sure that you can only answer questions if you understand the sentence. You can't answer our questions simply by choosing the words you see in our sentences.
- Educating our students about language acquisition. We communicate that the purpose of our quizzes isn't testing and the most important part is understanding the sentences and questions.
Because of this, our students often report that they learn a great deal by spending time to understand our sentences and dialogues rather than just speed-running the quizzes (which we make very difficult to do and discourage them from doing).
On top of this, the paper I cited (www.researchgate.net/publication/287446497_The_evidence_is_drills_are_OUT) find out that "structured input activities" where students have to comprehend the input to answer questions are effective for acquisition.
But if you can cite relevant papers, I'll be more than happy to take a look at them!
Thank you for the work you do
Incredibly informative Yuta. You put my thoughts into words.
Of the examples you gave I'm the latter. I can keep up with most everyday conversations, but when it comes to JLPT N4 (even after months of studying), I struggle. The conversations I'm reading in the tests and online courses are way different than the conversations I'm having with them. Grammer has never been my strong suit. And even though I understand most of the kanji when written in furigana, the kanji characters themselves are difficult for me to remember.
But let's be honest here. If you want to work or ect. in Japan It does not matter how good your Japanese is; none of it matters if you do not have the right documentation. In other words, have at least JLPT N2. And I can understand at least somewhat why.
I think it depends on your goals - when you are looking for a job as a foreigner you need at JLPT N2 and also understand conversation and keigo
This is exactly my situation. I had to take 4 semesters of Japanese and although I made some progress I couldn’t hold a conversation without pausing to think after every sentence to interpret, come up with an answer in English and translate that to Japanese. But now I’m practicing trying to understand everything I hear without thinking in English.
Welcome back Yuta
I am taking the JLPT tomorrow but I don’t have the confidence I will pass. But I decided after taking it I am going to change my way of learning Japanese. At least the test will show me where I need to focus on. I know ever since I became an adult I have been “studying” Japanese wrong, which is why I have been learning the language for 15+ years and still am not confident. I live in Japan so it should be easier. But being an ALT and way too busy to socialize, it has been a slow process. Everything is in English around me, hoping to switch jobs so I am forced to interact in Japanese. (But I need to JLPT test for a job like that)
This is how I learned English language, I sucked in school learning English, so I started to listen and pay attention to movies and songs until I got the hang of it.
I'm doing the same with Japanese, I'm not focusing on the JLPT I just listen the average life Japanese youtuber or Vtuber talk and after 5 years now I can get an idea what they are talking about, with out the need of subtitles.
Two questions! One, what is your maiden tongue? Just out of curiosity, your grammar and punctuation are bettee than most English speakers. 😂❤
Two, what Japanese RUclipsrs/Vtubers do you watch? I've been hearing so many people learning Japanese by doing this and speaking to other people who speak Japanese on things like VRchat, and they are extremely fluent! I have watched anime which has helped, but I can't really get pass very basic conversation and a small Hiragana reading level.
@@masterjunko I'm a Mexican born, Spanish speaker, in school I was really bad in my English language classes I was at the lowest scores.
I like English but the classes were not helping so I decided to watch movies in English first with Spanish subtitles then once I knew the dialogues and plot, I switched to English audio and English subtitles to understand the pronunciation and sentences. Playing with video games that have dialogue text boxes helps a lot too.
Listening to music and reading the lyrics then translating and understanding the translation helped too.
For Japanese I use a different approach, I watch JP youtubers and Vtubers because they speak natural, not in a setting like a movie, just to get used to the way they talk, pronunciation get my ears used to the talk, I pick my favourite japanese words and I try to spot them when they are used while talking.
Another way is, learn sentences that are basic often used.
First I learn as much Hiragana and Katakana as possible and how they are pronounced, this is to be able to read basic signs. Then basic words like "Water" "Exit" "Hello" how the seasons are called in Japanese, "Day" "Night" "Sun" "Earth" "Sky" "Dirt" "Rock"
Then I learn and memorize basic sentences like "How much is this?" "Can I get a glass of water" "Where can I find this", I try to memorize this small sentences until they are ingrained in me, then I move to bigger and more complex sentences that you would use in real life like "I've never heard of that" What do you mean?" "Oh! I'm sorry" and I memorize this sentences to the core, create your own library of words that you would normally hear on the street or in normal conversations. (It took me years to learn English and it has been almost 5 years so far learning Japanese but I can at least understand basic sentences or get an idea what they are talking about.) I challenge myself to hear Japanese people that speak fast and try to "fish" words I can understand and fill the gaps, its all about training your ear.
Choose topics you would usually use in your average life, and learn small sentences in Japanese and memorize them. For example I like video games and movies so I would do this I learn sentences you would use in those two like "Wanna play some games?" "I've never played that before" "Wanna watch a movie?" "I've heard this movie is bad/ is good". Stuff like that.
English subtles helped me get familiar with learning words. There are often times where a character says only one thing surrounded by bits of silence and it can help you learn the phrase to the point you may just think it in the right context on accident. On its own of course it wont be helpful because you know one phrase and thats it but itll help you learn what progress is like so you can learn other phrases.
I fully understand that to start speaking a language you should actually SPEAK IT, but my social anxiety and silly fear of mistakes do not let me do it, despite my JLPT level is N3+. So here we are - I can understand a lot, watch dorama/anime without subtitles and even read books, but I can not say anything. When I'm trying to form a thought, I easily get switched to grammar rules and always need to check whether everything is alright with the meaning in the context, if it sounds natural. But, to be honest, I really like studying grammar, all those structures, etymology and so on, it doesn't seem for me like a burden. The thing is I forget everything easily without practice, without using it.
On the other side - _speaking_ Japanese is not my main goal in learning the language, I do not speak a lot even in my native lang, but it is such a shame when you can't say something simple after years of studying
The thing that kinda helped me improve my English speaking/texting is character AI, but I am not really sure if AI is good with Japanese
I've learned alot of vocabulary just by watching lots of anime. Just hearing certain words over and over again. I'm studying Japanese now and watching Japanese interviews, watching Japanese livestreamers. To practice my listening.
I'm currently learning Japanese self study. heard it being spoken since I was a small child. I'm a hafu but not Japanese. My Asian side is Thai. I'm finding it a lot easier to learn as I already speak/read/write an Asian language. Your videos have been very helpful so far.
ありがとうございます裕太さん😊
I’ve never heard about there being different schools of thought about Japanese grammar. I’m curious to learn more,
I think you need both.
If you have no idea of the rules of the language, you won't understand a thing. Trouble with gaining rules implicitly is that it takes a long time for patterns to form and you can intuit incorrect rules. Explicit knowledge is faster and helps avoid mistakes.
However, by itself explicit knowledge is not very useful. You can't pause after every sentence someone says and figure out what rules they used. You need practice with lots of real-life examples to make them automatic, as well as to help you pick up nuances and exceptions that explicit knowledge fails to give you.
Even if it might feel like that intuitively, it turns out language acquisition doesn't work like that, as we have been observing for a few decades. It's pretty interesting to learn about this if you are interested in it.
I'm French speaking . I don't learn from the JLPT book or Minna no nihongo.
In Japanese language school, I have courses with Japanese native speakers. But it's only 1,5 hour by week, and we are 6-8 students, so it's not enough.
I try to learn by myself, looking RUclips, Instagram free materials... But it's not enough.
I went to Japan this year. I was able to express my toughts but for responses, it was difficult...
I need conversation...
But now, I live in Poland. There's no many Japanese living here, and all lessons are very expensive.
I would like to teach French to some Japanese and he/she can speak Japanese with me. But I don't even know where to ask for it.
What works for me is at the beginning study using a textbook to get a feel of the language, also grammar is very important to understand, if you only try to learn via movies or videos you wont understand anything, how could you? After being aware of the base grammar and structures, it would be much easier to track them watching a movie or listening to a podcast
Yeah, I've been having this problem. I can read no problem, but listening is really hard for me.
Listen a lot! I use podcasts in particular. Nihongo con Teppei is particularly good to start with if you have difficulty.
well, those who are capable of passing the N1 are also usually more or less capable of comprehending spoken japanese, and conveying their thoughts to a certain extent...
Shared this with my students who are currently learning Japanese! Some of them learn because they want to communicate but we also have students who learn Japanese in order to take JLPT. I wish they know why my method of teaching might have distinct differences. I think this video will help to boost my student's confidence more
Is anybody here who has learned japanese for years and barely understand anything?
Understand written Japanese? Spoken Japanese? Or straight-up nothing? In that case, the most appropiate word is not 'learned', it's 'studied'.
@@liesel_lex3380 Doesn't have to be specific, but lets take understanding spoken japanese as an example both anime and IRL.
And this is why I have never taken JLPT. Conversation skills and being overall literate have been my main focus.
Hez back!
In order to speak with my partner and have better communication, I had to learn practical day to day Japanese and had to use native Japanese dictionaries, watch Japanese RUclips etc. If you put the JLPT in front of me, I would fail it! But taking classes and using it every day is still helping me especially now
JLPT is and always will be just a side quest for me tbh lol
Even JLPT N1 is really easy when compared with native books or some series or anime (depending on the theme)
JLPT N1 is the level of the last class of junior high. Japanese have another exam that covers knowledge above that, but so far only one gaijin has been allowed and passed it. It's mainly for natives only.
I think for most folks learning another language, it's most useful to learn frequently occurring "constructions" or "confabs", which are frequently heard "chunks" in a stretch of naturally occurring discourse.
Having not watched Yuta in a long time, he’s now rocking that caveman look 😎
This is honestly correct, because I've heard before that someone thought I was USAmerican, but no - I started out with Oxford English books as a kid, it's my second language, then I just kept talking to people online. Now it's slang galore. lol
I learned this lesson the hard way in Japan. I'd been studying (the wrong stuff, clearly) and the first time i tried to speak it, i got so lost after one sentence i quit even trying for the rest of my time there. Then i reached the wrong conclusion that i just didn't put in enough effort. I put in so much effort after that, i wasn't sleeping well. And wouldn't you know it... It got worse.
how's it going now
@@crunchymushy on my most recent trip, I hate to admit, I mostly used Google translate to write in English and show both version. I played the stupid lost foreigner + dad card and just listened. I was a total wimp about it. However, I did so some caveman Japanese when needed and just assumed they'd get the parts I couldn't articulate.
I totally agree with Yuta, Ive lived in Japan for over 30 years and the first 10
were focussed on passing JLPT tests etc… complete waste of time, as these tests even N2 did not help but actually hindered my ability to communicate naturally with the locals.
Do Yuta’s course, he teaches you the practical spoken grammar nuances and vocab to communicate quickly and naturally with native Japanese… a huge positive differentiator imho.
I recently signed up for in-person Japanese lessons at a university in my city. I think will learn better if the classes are in-person rather than online video calls. I can already have simple conversations in Japanese and I bought a hiragana, katakana and kanji exercise book from a shop that imports Japanese goods as well as owning a booklet and two posters with all of the combinations of hiragana and katakana because I haven’t practiced writing Japanese at all yet.
Wake up babe, Yuta uploaded a new video
haahah best video
In regards to drills, Minna no Nihongo's drills are useful to me for the sole reason that I don't have the English companion textbook. So in order to answer the drills, I have to figure out from the example sentences what kind of answer they want and what information from the associated graphics I should be using.
"I wish I can..." Always sounds weird to me, even if some other person may say it's grammatically correct
Yeah there's no way it's grammatically correct. Swapping it the other way, saying "I hope I *could*.." doesn't sound right either. It's like exchanging really and very, though it can be exchanged a lot, it can't be exchanged every single time ("You really shouldn't do that" vs "You very shouldn't do that."
It isn't because "could" is considered as hypothetical / located in the fictive or past. "Can" is located in the present but "wish" is itself considered as a verb "inviting a theory".
Thank you, Yuta! I find that I almost try to intuit to a "close enough" definition whenever I read input or do output because of context. Almost thinking it's more like a drawing than a hard code with a right or wrong answer. This feels very relieving to know I am on the right track.
お久しぶりですねYuta さん❤
Detailed explanation.
anata no kotoba ni boku no kokoro wo hibiiite iru n da yo! Kono mondai ga arimsu. Arigatou gozaimasu, sensei Yuta!
3:04 As a native speaker, these examples sound weird and unnatural to me. "I can attend more meetings." is fine though.
8:02 "every Japanese people" is wrong. You can say "every Japanese person" or you can say "all Japanese people".
I 100% agree with your assessment. I working to pass JLPT N2 and I’m pretty close to it. I can easily read news articles or even scientific material that interests me….. however I can’t hold a fluid conversation. I think the JLPT is really a bad test that sucks the life out of learning the language.
I hate the fact that I need to pass the JLPT N2 (maybe even N1). However this is required for me for employment in Japan… so I will suck it up until I pass and then do the right thing 😅
You never miss 🔥
Your videos really a great help for me
The purpose of learning a language was never about language tests, it's about understanding it and using it in daily life. Textbooks are fine, but sometimes its too cringe and might not be the authentic expressions.
I used to suck at English, but I just kept going, writing journals in English, think with English, read English contents, speak with foreigners......That's how my English got better: to understand how the language really works in real life.
Guess I'm gonna stick to the same method to learn Japanese.
Honestly makes a lot of sense, and I feel like that was my process to learn English. I mostly learned English through games and online MMOs. When I came to the US I could understand a lot and write but could not hold conversations, but after going through school, having conversations, watching series in English with subtitles, etc. that helped me refine it to the point it's like my native language now (actually, there's some words I can say in English but not my native tongue lmao). I feel like the time I progressed the most with English was when I used to watch a lot gaming playthroughs here on RUclips.
I like the fact that Yuta uses researches :DD
There’s something so much more encouraging about Yuta making these videos in imperfect English. It just shows it doesn’t matter if your language is perfect it really do about understanding messages and nothing more
Yuta would be in the top 1% of English speakers with this level of English. I’d actually imagine he’d be more insulted that encouraged by this comment.
I never said it was bad. His English is fantastic. I said it’s imperfect, which it is. He doesn’t sound like a native speaker and makes a few errors here and there which are minor but errors nonetheless. The fear of speaking with an accent or making mistakes keeps Japanese learners from speaking for years and years, if ever in some cases. I just think he’s a great example of it really not mattering much if you don’t sound native, but more about being able to convey yourself well. Would be surprised if Yuta is offended. Plus I said it’s encouraging to me, not him.
@@Daniel_McDougall Sounding as in pronunciation? Or as in word choice/vocabulary/grammar?
@@tokumei99 pronunciation
They taught us English implicitly in my highschool programme. It is pretty intense though. We had 4 hours of English class a week and all other (non-language) classes were taught in English from day one.
Within months almost all kids could express themselves and by the end of high school almost everyone was proficient (C2 level).
However, I wonder how this implicit method holds up when you half ass it. I have a feeling that if you put in 50% of the effort, you only get 25% of the results.
Japanese cannot be learned without formal study of the language. English and Spanish are extremely efficient languages. Japanese language is not as efficient. As a Spaniard, it took me a year to learn to read Spanish. Since then I can read any spanish word. Japanese children require 10 years to achieve the same.
But even mastering these efficient languages requires study.I learned English when was an adult. It took me a great deal of effort and time to reach C2/1 level. I will never be as fluent as a native speaker child. However, the child needs to be educated in the language to master certain structures. Not everything is unconcious exposure and assimilation of the language.
ありがとうございます！おもしろいどうがでした!
My way of learning Japanese is forcing myself to read Visual Novels in JP lol. Mostly, I learned a lot of Kanjis~
Lmao same. I've read the entire higurashi series in JP. Which ones have you read?
@@Starzor Koihime Musou and Sengoku KoiHime. I learned a lot of war terms 😂
while speaking my native language- Polish I tend to stop myself mid speaking and mentally conjugating words. Probably because everything is conjugated here. Also, I’m studying jlpt N4 now and grammar is a bit confusing for a Slavic language speaker and despite not able to speak in Japanese my teacher is surprised that I actually understand A LOT more from hearing. Yet I’m scared of speaking and I had had the same issue with English for many years until I went abroad. (the same reason - thinking about rules before saying anything). I just wish I could talk more with native speaker to get used to the language but it’s a bit tough task.
I think textbooks are helpful when you're first starting out, but you need to supplement this with native level reading and listening materials. Their main purpose of a grammar textbook is to teach you the basic grammar, nothing more nor less. Ideally, you would go over the basic grammar and once you learned enough of the basic grammar that it doesn't become an impediment, you transition to reading books and listening to native content that is right for your level, and slowly build your vocabulary knowledge that way.
I’m noticing a trend with “hen….” Line 😂 love it (edited because autocorrect is always looking for a fight)
Yuuta, have you ever made a video talking about your experience learning English?
Great video
JLPT only tests reading and listening comprehension as a multiple-choice, which means, in principle, someone could be presented with a text or listening passage, not understand much of anything, and still pass by guesswork (25% to 33.33% chance) and the process of elimination. Ideally, the JLPT would include a written portion. It doesn't even have to be a full-blown essay, but rather a few short written question that you can answer in maybe 2-3 lines each. This would test how much people taking the test actually know the language (you can't blindly guess the right answer). The JLPT exam committee don't do this because it would take more resources to grade written questions, but there's an alternative: crosswords! They are easy to grade (there's usually only 1 objectively correct answer for each row and column) and if done well it can test the breadth of vocabulary knowledge. Incorporating an oral interview into the test would also be ideal, but again it would take more resources.
Also, N4 is hardly enough to be able to understand much of anything. You need to be at least around N3 level to even start to read and understand reading material for elementary school children.
ひさしぶりです！😊
Regarding Implicit vs Explicit for native English speakers (this is something that went viral on social media like 2 years ago): Have you even been listening to someone who isn't a native English speaker describing something with multiple adjectives, and they "use them in the wrong order"? Like they say "the black, big dog", and it just sounds wrong, but you don't know why? Well, there *is* a specific official order in English in which adjectives are to be listed based on the type of property they describe! But you were never taught this in school. You have to get into something like Master's level English courses for this to come up in class. Just based on hearing the various combinations of adjectives as you grew up, you learned what the order is, and it just sounds wrong to you if you use a different order.