I’m watching just as I finished building my front axle… luckily I haven’t got a stage 1 diff, but I feel your pain when it comes to cost 😭(plus I was up for 4 new tyres 😭😭) never the less, I love working on my s3 109 also, very informative video Jeff! Cheers mate!
I did full rebuilds on my swivels on my stage 1. There are cheaper ways if doing it then mentioned. For example get series railko bush and pin and just machine the length down on the pin(king pin). I did manage to find all the seals I needed from M.R. Automotive at reasonable prices. It was a bit of a headache to do finding the correct selas and part numbers. Good luck with it.
You will find the brakes are bigger/ better too, and the rear differential is a Dana 60 made under license by Land Rover. Can’t get much tuffer . Got a pair in my shed for a failed project
They used CV's because it was constant 4WD, uni joints in the ends of the axles would have lead to a sort of juddery feeling when accelerating and turning. I had a brand new Stage 1 V8 in 1982, wish I still owned it....
I've got a stage one front axle in my series 2 swb that I'm at moment fitting a 3.9 V8 with an LT77 4cyl gearbox I've also got some spare shafts and stub axles I was considering selling the spare parts but I'm running 900x16 tyres and thought if I break a Shaft I'm going to have a major problem finding replacement shafts
Very interesting video Jeff. I'm 19 and am rebuilding my 4BD1 stage 1 "troopcarrier" as well. Very excited to see more videos coming out about it. I did know about the unique front axle, but not until after I bought it😂. I still believe you made a good investment. 4BD1 stage 1 chassis are very numberd with about 200 bring produced and I believe it brings great content for the channel. Best of luck with it.
Thanks mate, and what a great Landy you have, plenty of adventures planned no doubt. The 4BD1 is solid unit and is the motor you want heading out into remote areas. Cheers Geoff
Hi Geoff, I owned a rare tray top stage 1 and yes I remember standing at a parts counter (Tom T) and engaging in heated debate about the swivel pins he had supplied me, they fidendint for the very reasons you have so brilliantly outlined. As I purchased my 110 County new from Winterbottom in Perth City in1985 my first thing was to assemble a collection of critical spares as I was taking my young family in the County to Alice Springs via some of Len B's famous and not so famous Gun Barrel company tracks, back then it took 15 hours to cover 11ks in a couple of very overgrown sections that required axe, pick and shovel to remove mulga and wattle from the 1 blade width track, had to fill in the wash outs and 86 the desert was wet in July east of Carnegie STN. We made it all the way to the Alice not even a flat, I broke a grease nipple off a rear uni one morning out back as I grease them daily on that sort of work. The parts changed from my sage 1 to County , engine consumables were easy every thing interchanged for the 4BD1, but there are some spec changes in that department as well. Would love to sit down with a coffee one day and chat. Kind regards from the Pilbara. Banjo.
G'day Ben. What a great adventure Ben, back when the Gun Barrel Hwy was a real achievement to complete. The County you mention was differently one of the best configurations that Land Rover ever came up with and the should have continued down that road in my opinion. I'd love to sit down and have coffee with you Ben and I might find myself in your part of the world later this year doing some Geology work, so see what happens. All the best, kind regards, Geoff
They aren't quite as different as you think. The bottom swivel bearing on a stage 1 is not specific, its a 217268 like any other series 3. The steering arms are different by having a shorter pin. The halfshaft seal 571718 is also used on early 90/110s with the 23 spline CV joints so is easilly avalable though the retainer it sits in is unique (dont wreck it when changing the seal - I found heating it up is the best way to get the old seal out). The difference between a suffix C and suffix D diff is the earlier housing is imperial and the latter is metric. The change only really effects the side bearings and the cap bolts - metric cap bolts are stamped 8.8 so is an easy way to identify a metric diff. Metric diffs usally lack a filler port in the case too where as imperial ones have a filler in the case (used in rear fitment) even though you fill front diffs through the pan (yes they added a filler to the rear diff pan of an 88 when they switched to metric diffs). The diff casing is common to all LR models at the time so a stage 1 front diff is just a standard RRC diff from the same pereod and thats the same as a series 3 diff besides the CW&P, they all went metric together (CW&P allong with its bearings didn't change when the diff housing 'went metric'). All long nose rover diffs from 1948 to 1994 will phisicly fit and post '94-2016 ones only don't because their centre is 24 spline rather than 10 so with the right centre and CW&P ratio any can be made to work - this is important to remember as the diff currently in your truck may not be the original to the correct spec! In 1980 LR changed a few parts so they were common between RR and S3 which they often refered to as 'rationalised' in the parts book. Anoyingly the early stage 1 was designed without this in mind so ones built before mid '80 have some slightly odd bits especally the brakes and axles but from '80 on they share more with a standard S3. As part of this they also switched some threads to metric, though not all of that as wheres the fun in that - they were very fond of only switching one end of a brake pipe to metric. One thing the stage 1 has going for it though is although its got its odities and some bits are harder to get, machanically they are built way stronger than a normal S3, RRC, Disco or all but the earlyest of 110's which are on par, so once you've completed your 40 year overhaul it should serve you well over the next few decades if you keep it oiled with little fuss. The gearbox is a major limiting feature of a standard series which means they either lack top end speed or struggle to pull away and break if you put too much power into them. The LT95 however has much wider gear ratios and plenty of strength so much better for long distance work though they are clunkyer to drive. If you really want to its also way easyer to put a later 5 speed or auto in a stage 1 as its basicly designed for it. Your right they are underrated, though they seem to occupy a strange place in the market - considered too weird and expensive to someone looking for a normal series and inferior to the comforts and refinement of an early 110 (disc brakes, power steering, softer ride, no weird parts) makes them niche appeal for a series nut.
I only know this as I did my swivels last year so spent a while cross referencing stuff, its good to share what we learn. After 40 years the old ralkos wern’t that bad but the new ones (Design and Development Engineering) are tighter - Its more expensive to overhaul than a normal series axle but once done it should have a very long life and its a stronger axle so you win in the end. They are also easier to make even stronger with 24 spline halfshafts (again Design and Development Engineering) which would then allow fitting a stronger 24 spline diff centre like Ashcrofts 4 pin, ATB or airlocker.
I have recently bought one as well for a project mine has the 3.5 V8 and has had a ZF 4HP22 auto fitted to it. I am still getting my head around what I have actually got and what is the right way to go about getting it back on the road. Thanks for the video and I look forward to seeing the next ones
sadly the defender front axles are longer than the stage one axles and the axle casing is very different to the defender so you would have to buy a disc conversion kit. Cheers Geoff
I believe Land rover "Santana" had done a much better job on improving their vehicles than Leyland did. A good example is the 6 cyl diesel engine they created and used in some models of their LR 109.
Disco1 perentei and Range Rover are 1900 mm outside of the rim to outside of rim Series 3 is 1700 about. I am trying to put disk brakes on my series 3 has anyone put disco swivel ends on a series diff? Or should I stick to plan an and just switch the diffs?
So happy to have found this channel, I have a dual cab stage one V8, and found this video incredibly informative. Many thanks.
Well to the Seriously Series community/channel. Glad you enjoyed this video. There will be more Stage One videos coming your way. Kind regards, Geoff
I’m watching just as I finished building my front axle… luckily I haven’t got a stage 1 diff, but I feel your pain when it comes to cost 😭(plus I was up for 4 new tyres 😭😭) never the less, I love working on my s3 109 also, very informative video Jeff! Cheers mate!
Cheers mate, well the cost of the parts keep us out of the pub and bar. Cheers Geoff
I did full rebuilds on my swivels on my stage 1. There are cheaper ways if doing it then mentioned. For example get series railko bush and pin and just machine the length down on the pin(king pin). I did manage to find all the seals I needed from M.R. Automotive at reasonable prices. It was a bit of a headache to do finding the correct selas and part numbers. Good luck with it.
very interesting, good to know! always liked that stage one preserves the lovely clean series look down the sides...
They only changed to cv because of the constant 4wd of the lt95 a stage one is a great vehicle
You will find the brakes are bigger/ better too, and the rear differential is a Dana 60 made under license by Land Rover. Can’t get much tuffer . Got a pair in my shed for a failed project
Cheers, there are a great set up once you get your head around there Landy ways. Cheers Geoff
wow, who would have thought!
They used CV's because it was constant 4WD, uni joints in the ends of the axles would have lead to a sort of juddery feeling when accelerating and turning. I had a brand new Stage 1 V8 in 1982, wish I still owned it....
Keep them coming. I do like the Series 3 Stage 1.
Will do, on to the diffs next. Cheers Geoff
I've got a stage one front axle in my series 2 swb that I'm at moment fitting a 3.9 V8 with an LT77 4cyl gearbox
I've also got some spare shafts and stub axles
I was considering selling the spare parts but I'm running 900x16 tyres and thought if I break a Shaft
I'm going to have a major problem finding replacement shafts
Very interesting video Jeff. I'm 19 and am rebuilding my 4BD1 stage 1 "troopcarrier" as well. Very excited to see more videos coming out about it. I did know about the unique front axle, but not until after I bought it😂. I still believe you made a good investment. 4BD1 stage 1 chassis are very numberd with about 200 bring produced and I believe it brings great content for the channel. Best of luck with it.
Thanks mate, and what a great Landy you have, plenty of adventures planned no doubt. The 4BD1 is solid unit and is the motor you want heading out into remote areas. Cheers Geoff
Hi Geoff, I owned a rare tray top stage 1 and yes I remember standing at a parts counter (Tom T) and engaging in heated debate about the swivel pins he had supplied me, they fidendint for the very reasons you have so brilliantly outlined. As I purchased my 110 County new from Winterbottom in Perth City in1985 my first thing was to assemble a collection of critical spares as I was taking my young family in the County to Alice Springs via some of Len B's famous and not so famous Gun Barrel company tracks, back then it took 15 hours to cover 11ks in a couple of very overgrown sections that required axe, pick and shovel to remove mulga and wattle from the 1 blade width track, had to fill in the wash outs and 86 the desert was wet in July east of Carnegie STN.
We made it all the way to the Alice not even a flat, I broke a grease nipple off a rear uni one morning out back as I grease them daily on that sort of work.
The parts changed from my sage 1 to County , engine consumables were easy every thing interchanged for the 4BD1, but there are some spec changes in that department as well. Would love to sit down with a coffee one day and chat. Kind regards from the Pilbara. Banjo.
G'day Ben.
What a great adventure Ben, back when the Gun Barrel Hwy was a real achievement to complete. The County you mention was differently one of the best configurations that Land Rover ever came up with and the should have continued down that road in my opinion.
I'd love to sit down and have coffee with you Ben and I might find myself in your part of the world later this year doing some Geology work, so see what happens. All the best, kind regards, Geoff
Would love to catch up when you are here.@@seriouslyseriesaustralia
If you make adapter rings you can put defender hubs and shafts on plus discs
Good to know , thank you. Cheers Geoff
Could you fit a Defender front diff?
Eakry models, yes you can, though you need to make sure it is 10 spline diff, otherwise you need to change the axles. Cheers Geoff
They aren't quite as different as you think.
The bottom swivel bearing on a stage 1 is not specific, its a 217268 like any other series 3. The steering arms are different by having a shorter pin.
The halfshaft seal 571718 is also used on early 90/110s with the 23 spline CV joints so is easilly avalable though the retainer it sits in is unique (dont wreck it when changing the seal - I found heating it up is the best way to get the old seal out).
The difference between a suffix C and suffix D diff is the earlier housing is imperial and the latter is metric. The change only really effects the side bearings and the cap bolts - metric cap bolts are stamped 8.8 so is an easy way to identify a metric diff. Metric diffs usally lack a filler port in the case too where as imperial ones have a filler in the case (used in rear fitment) even though you fill front diffs through the pan (yes they added a filler to the rear diff pan of an 88 when they switched to metric diffs). The diff casing is common to all LR models at the time so a stage 1 front diff is just a standard RRC diff from the same pereod and thats the same as a series 3 diff besides the CW&P, they all went metric together (CW&P allong with its bearings didn't change when the diff housing 'went metric'). All long nose rover diffs from 1948 to 1994 will phisicly fit and post '94-2016 ones only don't because their centre is 24 spline rather than 10 so with the right centre and CW&P ratio any can be made to work - this is important to remember as the diff currently in your truck may not be the original to the correct spec!
In 1980 LR changed a few parts so they were common between RR and S3 which they often refered to as 'rationalised' in the parts book. Anoyingly the early stage 1 was designed without this in mind so ones built before mid '80 have some slightly odd bits especally the brakes and axles but from '80 on they share more with a standard S3. As part of this they also switched some threads to metric, though not all of that as wheres the fun in that - they were very fond of only switching one end of a brake pipe to metric.
One thing the stage 1 has going for it though is although its got its odities and some bits are harder to get, machanically they are built way stronger than a normal S3, RRC, Disco or all but the earlyest of 110's which are on par, so once you've completed your 40 year overhaul it should serve you well over the next few decades if you keep it oiled with little fuss. The gearbox is a major limiting feature of a standard series which means they either lack top end speed or struggle to pull away and break if you put too much power into them. The LT95 however has much wider gear ratios and plenty of strength so much better for long distance work though they are clunkyer to drive. If you really want to its also way easyer to put a later 5 speed or auto in a stage 1 as its basicly designed for it.
Your right they are underrated, though they seem to occupy a strange place in the market - considered too weird and expensive to someone looking for a normal series and inferior to the comforts and refinement of an early 110 (disc brakes, power steering, softer ride, no weird parts) makes them niche appeal for a series nut.
Many thanks for sharing that useful information, greatly appreciated. I will say this "easy when you know how". Kind regards, Geoff
I only know this as I did my swivels last year so spent a while cross referencing stuff, its good to share what we learn.
After 40 years the old ralkos wern’t that bad but the new ones (Design and Development Engineering) are tighter - Its more expensive to overhaul than a normal series axle but once done it should have a very long life and its a stronger axle so you win in the end. They are also easier to make even stronger with 24 spline halfshafts (again Design and Development Engineering) which would then allow fitting a stronger 24 spline diff centre like Ashcrofts 4 pin, ATB or airlocker.
I have recently bought one as well for a project mine has the 3.5 V8 and has had a ZF 4HP22 auto fitted to it. I am still getting my head around what I have actually got and what is the right way to go about getting it back on the road. Thanks for the video and I look forward to seeing the next ones
No worries John, plenty more coming your way. Good luck with your project sounds like a interesting set up. Kind regards, Geoff
very land rover like. unbelievible. wouldnt it be possible and much easier to swip it for an ordinary series 3 front axle ?
Very true, but I am in to deep. Cheers Geoff
is it easier to fit a narrowed defender axle? you get discs and cvs as standard.
sadly the defender front axles are longer than the stage one axles and the axle casing is very different to the defender so you would have to buy a disc conversion kit. Cheers Geoff
I believe Land rover "Santana" had done a much better job on improving their vehicles than Leyland did. A good example is the 6 cyl diesel engine they created and used in some models of their LR 109.
For years I thought this channel’s name is seriously “SERIOUS” for some reason😂😂. Just now I read it again and its “SERIES”…
Awesome, well welcome to Seriously Series. The name came about as we are seriously about series Land Rovers. Cheers Geoff
@@seriouslyseriesaustralia Really appreciate your contents mate.. Great work!!
Disco1 perentei and Range Rover are 1900 mm outside of the rim to outside of rim
Series 3 is 1700 about.
I am trying to put disk brakes on my series 3 has anyone put disco swivel ends on a series diff?
Or should I stick to plan an and just switch the diffs?
steering arms are in the wrong place, they intersect the leaf springs. Might be possible with some modification
Can buy disk brake swivels
It sounds very British and very much why landcruiser took over
Do you have drip trays in the pattern store?
Working on it mate, just hard findung one which can hold enough oil. Cheers Geoff
Look for Santana 2500 parts
Cheers will do, Regards Geoff
Yeeeha first comment.......yooohoooo
Congrats Matt, welcome to the club. Cheers Geoff