An Embarrassingly Long Analysis of the 7 Lightsaber Combat Forms
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We need a SW video game with the lightsaber forms in a skill tree.
Hell yeah we do!
Good thinking
May the force be with you always Hayden Christensen general master sir
Good thank you so much merci
Good thinking alright then guys
Hahahaha!! This one was SUPER fun. I hope you all enjoy and thank you for having me on as always Stupendous Wave!
You 6.7 beast i agree with all you say
I definitely do come back soon ❤
That's sounds interesting for you actually
Of course
Very good idea actually master general sir Hayden Christensen himself
Sees lightsaber forms. Sees length of video. Nerd mode engage.
Lol. Yes.
Facts.
Love it Same
Yeah take note andor
#andorsucks
Engaged of course
"Vader cannot lift his arms above shoulder level" *vader lifting palpatine above his head and tossing him like a flightless bird*
See what happened was he took it as a challenge and if there is one thing you don't do is challenge Vader...with exceptions of course
@@ufc3459This example shows that both Vader and Anakin had the same big flaw : hubris
Ignoring the obvious, this video does
@ufc3459 but that also means that the armour argument is wrong. We see him do it
He actually just picks the Senate up by the armpits and carries him about two feet, The Chosen One then arches his back and keeps his arms around eye level to shove him over the railing... I think that 'can't raise his arms above his head' is still applicable to canon...
Oh boy, this is gotta be the biggest Holocron yet
Spot on then guys
Definitely correct answers alright then
I like to watch these kinds of long lore videos while I'm cooking, cleaning or just trying to fall asleep.
same. always passing out listening to 3+ hr star wars, 40k, GOT, LOTR, game retrospectives.
Hope you enjoy!
Big facts
or eating
Good thinking
Awesome, I saw “embarrassingly long” and it didn’t disappoint, great video man! There is no such thing as a long video for SW :)
How would you know? You commented 2 minutes after the video went live? Lol
Good thinking my mistake
Absolutely correct
Very good idea
That's a great idea for you Hayden Christensen always
Now THIS is just what I needed!
Makashi is my favourite Lightsaber Style, it's just so sophisticated and elegant.
I like Form V Djem S0 & VII Vaapad myself!!!
@@eugenelau3927 My other favoured Forms are Form VII Juyo & Form III Soresu, I also like Jar'Kai and Telekinetic Lightsaber Combat.
Weapon
Of course I do care about the comments and the people I care about is Skywalker's only and respect for the other jedi masters and padawans as well
I agreed with dgem powers of course form 5
Just lighted the reefer and then comes this gem in, thanks for this hilarious amount of work you sick geniuses!
Don't be rude to me thankyou very much and I don't like being called names at all.
Chinese facials now that's Canadian jokes that you like exactly
Gore puke of pumpkin spew.
I am not sick at all
That's true exactly what about pumpkin stew and that's Canadian jokes that you like exactly
It’s nice hearing this kind of unedited conversation from you!
Honestly would love to see more episodes like this
Your absolutely welcome Hayden Christensen always general master sir
Your welcome
Your welcome
This is absolutely fantastic thank you for taking the time to do this
Kao Cen Darach was a practicioner of Niman, he was able to hold of Darth Malgus and Darth Vindican long enough for Satele Shan and some republic troopers to escape and warn the Republic and Jedi of the Sith's return
Done
Am I the only one who would be very interested in seeing a mixture of form V and VI? I feel like being able to mix in force abilities with your counters would create a powerful level of battlefield control. Using Niman’s reactive tendencies to allow your body momentary respite from the physical demands of Djem So could allow you to persist through a potentially longer fight. Another point to it when dealing with blaster fire, I could see a master of both forms using the openings between blaster bolts to force pull or bind their opponents within range; closing the distance in a moment
I: Let the force be your guide
II: Lethal precision
III: Ultimate defense, wait for your opponent to make a mistake and then strike
IV: Gotta go fast
V: Overwhelm your opponent with aggressive strikes and counterattacks
VI: Learn the basics and be mediocre, or truly master it and become one of the dealiest duelists of all time
VII: Either let the darkness take over for power (Juyo) or control your inner darkness to serve the light (Vaapaad)
Number 5 for me thankyou
Vapaad .....(I'm a dark ninja).
@@justaregularguy115 maybe not at all
Dude was the reference of Qui-Gon and Maul and the soft sand from The Diary of Maul? If so that was a B-Side Deep Cut that I am proud to have caught.
Great catch
My favorite users of the known lightsaber forms:
Form I Shii-Cho: Lucien Draay, Kit Fisto, Kento Marek, Every Jedi Youngling.
Form II Makashi: Count Dooku, Asajj Ventress, Jerec, Shaak Ti.
Form III Soresu: Obi-Wan Kenobi, Darth Zannah, Kanan Jarrus, Luminara Unduli, Barriss Offee.
Form IV Ataru: Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Ezra Bridger, Aayla Secura, Quinlan Vos, Ahsoka Tano, Darth Talon, An’ya Kuro.
Form V Shien/Djem So: Anakin Skywalker, Luke Skywalker, Plo Koon, Ulic Qel Droma, Darth Bane, Galen Marek, Ahsoka Tano
Form VI Niman: Exar Kun, Darth Krayt, Kao Cen Darach, Cal Kestis(implied), Starkiller clone, Darth Plagueis(implied), Darth Maul, Darth Sidious, Revan
Form VII Juyo/Vaapad: Mace Windu, Darth Maul, Rahm Kota, Darth Sidious, Sora Bulq, Depa Billaba.
Three Rings of Defense: Most members of Luke Skywalker’s New Jedi Order
Trakata: Darth Traya, Corran Horn
No Revan mention in Niman???
Bane also knows form 3 and is near Obi Wann level of it
Add revan, sidious and maul to the list of form 6 masters.
Ahsoka tends to use a combination of Ataru and Shien with a bit of Djem So thrown in when she needs a bit more power.Sidious used a combination of Niman and Juyo.
Props for the Corran Horn reference.
starwars is a escape for me. and i’m 24. these videos are a blessing man.
Very good thinking exactly
It would be very interesting to see both Obi-Wan Kenobi and Barriss Offee dueling, even though we all know that Obi-Wan would win but the duel would last for probably a very long time due to the fact that both Obi-Wan and Barriss are skilled at form 3.
Kenobi is also skilled in form 4, and at least according to TCW cartoon, offee's main form is 6.
@@drakethesnek6429I’m not taking about “dark jedi Barriss” I’m referring to padawan Barriss because she used form 3 a lot in the beginning of the clone wars before she turned to the dark side, but maybe she had secretly studied Niman prior to her turn to the dark side. Also Obi-Wan may have used Ataru at some times in his duels but it was barely shown because we see him use form 3 a lot more than Ataru because that’s the form his is more focused with.
Exactly
How amazing
I'd like to believe that because Windu understood the blade motions of form 7 better than any Jedi of his era, he was able to successfully mount a defense against Palpatine's initial offensive explosion at the very beginning of their dule, and match his saber skill. The other Jedi Masters in the room could not anticipate the strikes that were coming at them, and were unfamiliar with the bladework, speed, and ferocity of going up against a true master of form 7, so they were surprised, and quickly killed. Also, there were hardly any Juyo practitioners in the galaxy, let alone the Jedi Order, and most Jedi mainly practiced against other members of their own order in sparring. Battling Sith Lords (the apex predators of Force wielders) was even more of a rarity, let alone fighting blade to blade with a Dark Lord as powerful and furocious as Sidious. Some of that is probably just my own head canon, but that's the fun of Star Wars. Everyone see's the subtleties of the lore in their own unique way. It's a never ending discussion, and that's why we love it so much.
Good luck then
May the force be with you always master general sir Hayden Christensen Skywalker himself
Two of my favorite things : Lightsaber forms and stupendous Wave long discussion video… what more to ask ? Very great content as always !!
I love these long videos.
Me to
1:39:04 thanks for clearing this up I always have a hard time pinning down exactly how strong and how good anakin is when comparing him to old masters yoda and even windu in the end a fight is about more than just power but IQ and strategy and just being able to keep your wits about you
Of course it is the right thing to do that exactly
Welp guess I’ve got something to watch working from home tomorrow 😁
One fucking massive undertaking...
And I thank you for it.☕
This was a excellent video! I love the lore and you guys add takes to it.
me at 2am see this was posted: "well I didn't have anything important to do tomorrow anyway" (I do)
Surely I'm not the only one who found it hilarious to describe Obi-Wan's use of Mou Kei on Anakin as "cutting corners", right? 😂
I feel like I’m watching an ESPN episode starwars style and it’s AMAZING everything was so well articulated I shall add this to my training🙏🏽
So the jedi that got in the way during a battle with bane on Tython was Johun Othone, just in case anyone wanted to know as the video didn't clarify. The only other thing I think was intentionally implied by the bane books but not directly stated or mentioned by anyone, bane not only focused study on form 3 due to losing his armour but because of how he gained it. When the orbalisks attacked bane the wording in the audiobook is "The colony of crustaceans broke free on mass and cascaded down on him in a chitinous swarm" "it was like trying to ward off raindrops in a storm" He literally took that experience and learned how to block raindrops as redemption for falling victim to the orbalisks. Definitely one of my favourite features of bane, everything bad that happens to him, he learns to beat in the future. Bane only 'lost' to Zannah because of her force abilities, bane not only laid her on her back but he disarmed her, if she were any other force user of the time, including her own temporary apprentice (Set Harth) she'd have died.
JOHUN OTHONE! THAT was it!! Thank you, that was killing me! Also I love that take on why Bane decided to learn Soresu, I haven’t seen that perspective before.
Thanks man, I think it's accurate. It's just the phrasing that hints at it but it's the repeat of the word choice that made me sure of it. I love the bane series, if I could ever study under a master it would definitely be bane.
@@Delta68494 agreed. Bane is for sure in my top 3 favorite Sith. The Bane Trilogy was my first step into the Legends universe and it got me hooked right away.
I completely get why. It almost killed the movies and series shows for me. I hope some day they make maybe a 3 season series for bane to cover each book.
Oh could I ask you about Set real quick? What do you think of him and his character? I wish there was more about him especially after he escapes the stone prison with Darth Andeddu holocron
Simply amazing video, you should do more like these about different topics
This video is a ton of fun. This level of detail in world building really brings the story to life.
Absolutely
Exactly
Hell yeah when you n Geetsly make hr+ long videos i get soooooo pumped up. Lol thank you so much Stu!
I have been waiting for this video for months. Thank you. I love you.
Me to
Before i even watch this video, let me remind people that niman is the primary form used by darth sidious, maul, revan, krayt, exar kun and kao cen darach. Maul won against qui-gon using niman, not juyo. Same with sidious versus maul/savage, though i think sidious is prone to bouncing between niman and juyo.
Lastly, nowhere is it stated that niman is weak in any department, including dueling and battlefields. By its very nature, niman is average at everything.
It’s the jack of all trades form and it’s my fave
I’m a huge fan of Ataru. It perfectly matches my personality as an energetic person when engaging in physical activity and I feel like if I can learn some basic gymnastics, along with some more advanced manoeuvres, I could be an absolute beast in a lightsaber duel
One of the best videos on lightsaber forms I've ever seen
Trakata is the only common sense form. Why would you not use the ability to turn your blade on and off?
same reason as any other culture that values a sense of honor. they see it as a bad thing to do. it is also dangerous and might not be worth the risk unless you are 100% confident that it will work.
LOVED THIS VID SM, As a SW RUclipsr, this inspired me so much not even kidding. Please make a tier list on the strongest force wielders, i would LOVE That
As you wish my Master Hayden Christensen anakin Skywalker sir general 4
And may the force be with you always Hayden Christensen always
Your absolutely welcome
Don’t be embarrassed bro, this is badass.And so are you. I love your videos👍
Ty very much I asked for something like this awhile back and enjoyed it very much
Never knew about all the nuances in the forms before. Thanks for that guys. Personally, I wouldn't use them. With the force as an ally, I'd construct multiple sabers to use at range, or as shields. Totally using trikata if I have to. Guide one saber around behind or to the side, ignite it to distract, then three more come in from different angles. Even above or below. For sure going to use the area around me too. Surprise rocks, twigs, clip boards or small objects. Annoyances to wear down the stamina and confuse. While comfortable in cortosis armor.
That incredibly unique 😮
I'd love to see such a style in action
@@DarienJDees Thank you. I never understood why force users never used the force more inventively. Say you have a ship, maybe one that is trying to take off and leave with a certain Count in it. Why not reach out and pluck a few of the vital wires to the engine, or hyper drive? Cripple the ship and then clean up after.
@@GenlennialEntertainment that's so insidious...but genius 😅
The only jedi that I think might think of something even remotely that subtle is Shak Ti
@@DarienJDees Right?! Oh no, not the big bad droid army. Whatever will we do? Use the force to short out their remote control, cpus, or communications. Watch them start flopping, gaining free will, or running around like the runner that freaked out Obi Wan and Anakin. The force has so many untapped uses that it boggles the mind. None of the force users we focus on ever think outside the box enough to make use of it. Even grand masters. The only time I think I've seen the subtle use was with Quigon. The trick he pulled on Watto to get a chance at taking Anakin.
It isn’t that easy to tap into that level of the force in an instant except for those with the highest midichlorians. Yoda, Vader, Palpatine sure everyone else no, not like that. I mean we have now seen Vader do it in the Obi Wan series.
1:43:27 Ik I’m commenting a lot but I just love this video (taking me days to finish) but yea anakin was THE goat in this form if you take a closer look at mustafar you can clearly see at the end anakin is standing tall vs obi wan is definitely winded and obi wan is profiling maneuvers that he’s never done before in this duel which can also be a factor
Absolutely
Super insightful all the details and how thorough this was. Really enjoyed this thank you!
Done
You have mastered the secret 8th form: Weaponized Autism. This was incredibly deep.
thanks for the work could you add timestamps for each form ?
It will never happen. That forces the viewers to watch the whole video, that makes the algorithem happy.
This 3rhs will be a delight
Exactly
Absolutely
I'll be back one of these days to watch this entire video
Fast style worked best in JEDI ACADEMY, people who dislike Niman are simply naive, the beauty of it is that if you've mastered it, then it becomes anything you need it to become. Also, it's incredibly inclusive, and a master could add other marshal techniques or even dance moves. Far from being a mere swiss army knife, it is supremely customizable to both practitioner and situation.
Saving this one later for cleaning day 😂
This theory might be a little out there but I feel like it might hold some water.
After order 66 it seemed like the Jedi you know like the good guys, they became stronger and my theory is since there was less Jedi in the Galaxy the force can only act through so many people at once with such levels of strength. So maybe the force got like distilled down to maybe like a stronger version of itself because it wasn't spread out so much to so many other people.
I'm not saying that back in the day a whole bunch of Jedi couldn't use a bunch of force abilities that were super powerful I'm saying that it became easier for lesser Jedi to use more powerful abilities because the force didn't have so many to work through. Idk that's just a theory I was having last night.
I'm just trying to add rhyme to reason why Ezra Bridger and Luke Skywalker and I don't know Kyle katarn they all became just extremely powerful even though they didn't train as younglings... Okay Luke probably could have trained to be a Jedi at the age of 50 and still would have been a badass though I'm just saying don't don't come aboard me because I said Luke Skywalker.
Sry, I was ... Tore up when I wrote this one... 😂
Great speech on Luke and form 5! That was perfect
This is one of THEE greatest videos ever created!!!
Good shit my man keep this up ya holocrons r reaching us in the outer rim (da hood)
Guess what I know what I’m doing for the next 3 hours
Vader used a saber style that took almost 20 years to perfect it, using Djem-so parry followed by a power counter-attack sequence as base and mixing the precision of Makashi and the ferocity of Juyo and some Nimam enough to use Force techniques in combat, but as Anakin Skywalker he used a Shien but after losing to Dooku he started to study Djem-so without abandoning Shien at all becoming the ultimate Form V user and he also always mixed the acrobatics of Ataru because Anakin loved to be flashy, but after becoming Vader he was forced to downgrade his Ataru because he lost a large degree of mobility needed to Form IV, many say that Vader also used Soresu too, but i strongly disagree with this statement because Vader hated Obi-Wan into his core and with this info i think it is safe to say that Vader hated Form III into his core too.
My style of saber combat would be Jar'kai with Ataru as main style because i love the acrobatics of the Form and i would try to combine with Makashi precision and some Niman to have at least a small defense and utilize some force techniques in combat, but if i could create a new saber form it would be the favorite dueling Form of the Jedi, i would use Soresu as base because of its defense and mix it up with Teras Kasi, so basically after blocking a attack grab your opponent wrist, position your leg for leg-trip takedown and point your blade at him and force him to wield or disarm, that would be the Form M.O., I don't know which number it would be but i would call it Helkate, the way of the Bendu, the grappling Form
Amazing video. If i were a jedi, i would strive to master both makashi and sorisu, both emphasize energy conservation and tight precise moves, but makashi is focused on precise killing blows and sorisu is focused on a perfect wall of defense. Mastering both would be a potent mix
Nice work Hayden Christensen himself ❤
Day 438 of asking for a part 3 of what if anakin was trained by qui gon
How's that working out for you?
@@carlousmagus5387 One who follows the Will of the Force is one who lives a full life. I know for I am one with the Force and the Force is with me. May the Force be with You....always
bro this cant be real
Search your feelings, you know it to be true!
Luke:I don't believe it. Yoda:That is why you fail
Shi cho sounds more like a form designed to teach fundamentals.
Its the basics that makes every other form possible.
YESS Finally an unreasonably long lore video on lightsaber combat
Just started this an HR ago or so. So far no repeating yourself, no "double speak" due to editing. Thanks for taking my advice
Is there any way to merge all 7 so that there's perfection for both light and dark side?
No. The closest to a perfect hybrid style is form 6 niman.
Correct answer
that was quite an interesting discussion to be sure. lots of information for me to examine.
My personal favorite style has always been Form VI, because it's presented as a style that borrows elements from all other forms to create something more utilitarian that is effective for Jedi that don't engage in combat to hold their own and shift approaches as needed.
That being said, I was always disappointed that Form VI was its own style that had already been pieced together from the other five established lightsaber forms, and that practitioners of Form VI were actually rather discouraged from trying to learn and master the other lightsaber forms, as it seems counter-intuitive to how an individual would develop an all-encompassing style of lightsaber combat like how Form VI is initially presented as a concept, because when you evaluate it on that idea it seems like a lightsaber form that has been deliberately left in its infancy because the Jedi don't actually want somebody to develop a truly comprehensive form of lightsaber combat, just something good enough for a Consular to have a wide array of basic tools and strategies while they focus more on the Force.
I'd argue that the truest expression of Form VI as a pure lightsaber form is the mastery and blending of Forms I-V, and the fixation with incorporating Force abilities either seems like it should have either been its own separate Form, or a variant of Form VI that would be more accessible to those more inclined to use the Force actively in combat rather than pure bladework.
There should of been some many light whip formulas, electrostaff formations, blaster formats, as well as thermal destinator formers too yeah.
Good idea actually try that idea
I have always wondered, does the word 'form' mean style? No one seems to say what a 'form' really is. I listen to descriptions, pros/cons, and opinions...but I never actually hear what a form is in Star Wars. I mean at the end of the day a lightsaber is a fancy sword. And a sword only has 10 basic moves: 4 cardinal movements, 4 diagonal movements, thrust, and draw. That's it. Everything else is a version of, or a stylist approach to the 10 basic movements. So is that why they are talking about?
So my interpretation of what Lus-ma might be, a seemingly aggressive form akin to Juyo, but with faints that consist of super precise jabs and slashes akin to makashi.. so you throw a faint that looks like it's gonna be a really powerful blow from the upper right, but then shift to a precise jab from upper left.
I would use form 2 makashi and form 3 soresu. One for lightsaber combat and one for blaster deflection.
That's what I'm thinking
That Jedi that he is thinking of his name is Johan otho
That's a good idea stay-at-home and a nice warm cuppa coffee to stay warm
My favorite forms would be: Djem So, Juyo, Vaapad and Trakata. I know a lot of people see it as cheap shot but when used effectively: absolutely lethal. I'll always vouch for it.
My personal choice in forms:
1) niman
2) makashi + shien
Force Education
Love these long videos for my Tuesday morning solo shifts.
Your absolutely welcome alright then
I think I'd try to mix form 1 and shien. The unique fundamental based thinking of Shii-cho paired with the focused reflecting of blaster bolts back at targets. Could be fun for choreography.
It finally happened!! I've been waiting for this video for ages! 😍
Agreed with that answer actually
Ah yes...embarrassing...definitely...
*downloads for after work*
💀💀my brother just clowed me for watching this, imagine a gun toting, weed smokin party nigga watching lightsaber forms
Excellent video! Very comprehensive
I love this kind of deep dive.
This is the perfect thing to practice my sword forms to ❤
Exactly
kenobi's big strikes are basically the equivalent of war crimes
Always love hearing from the archivist!
They're forbidden moves for a reason, Obi wan had to deal with the consequences until he died
In my mind, Ataru would have been formed as a response to Exar Kun's double-bladed saber since that was the first of its kind.
Of course it is
Exactly
Absolutely and I'm working on it right now
I don't understand why people say maul uses Niman. I think he mostly uses Shii-Cho. Fighting in two directions while using martial arts requires the crazy spacial awareness that masters of firm one rely on.
I never understood why Vader never incorporated Cortosis into his armor plating.
Personally, I think my lightsaber form would be form V Shien and Djem So. A form prepared for any threat I've always had the belief that "the best defence is a good offense" Seeing as I'm 6"3 and I fight with physical strength and with a counter attacking philosophy. It would just compliment me perfectly.
Thank you for such an in depth and thorough video, I don't think I've come across such an in depth video about lightsaber combat anywhere. Keep up the good work!
“An Embarrassingly Long Analysis of the 7 Lightsaber Combat Forms” = My Life
As far as Vader vs Yoda, Yoda jumping over Vader's head would make it extremely hard for Vader with his mobility issues. Even if you go with the sources that say it was just difficult or painful, that would slow him down or momentarily distract him and against Yoda who is so speed based that would be a death sentence. I think Yoda has this one in the bag.
You guys the best. I watch everyday!
Wonder what it would look like if someone combined a mastered Shii-Cho, combined it with Vapaad, and then lastly Niman and Jarki.
Have y’all made a video on the colors of the lightsabers and the types of Jedi like the consular and guardian?
Excellent video, great discussion of the forms and how they are related to the philosophy and history of the Jedi and Sith orders. The only point of curiosity I don’t see addressed here is any combat styles / forms for lightsaber pikes, which would be interesting to know about. I don’t know if there were any definitive ones in the lore (legends or canonical).
Thank you so much for this exactly.
I have an hour before I go to work and I see this now. Well, good thing I drive for a living 😁
And may the force be with you always Hayden Christensen please be careful
Exactly the point of what you just said earlier.
And Real swordfights don't last long enough to really wait for someone to get tired.
But in Star wars, with the force/force-intuition it's a completely different Story.
Fights last much longer and suddenly waiting and tireing out your opponent becomes a very viable strategy
So Niman comes in 2 flavors jedi-"Diplomats form" used by jedi who want a form that doesnt need constant practice so u can focus on other pursuits (like johan othone) but also "battle master" that allows them to use one or two blades to cycle thru 6 forms and add unpredicable personalized forms like Exar Kun Darth Revan Pong krell Cal kestis Starkiller II Darth Krayt , but I think if u were doing multiple forms , I like form III soresu, form V shien/djem so , form 6 niman , form 7 Juyo/Vapaad , a mix of those forms would be monsterous
One of the guys doing this video was 6 ft. 7 in.?" You know there is a bassist who plays for the German metal band Rammstein, Oliver Riedel, who is also 6' 7". My three chosen lightsaber forms would be Juyo (because I'm a Sith Lord), Soresu (for defensive purposes in lightsaber dueling and for better defense against blaster fire) and Makashi (basic lightsaber 2 lightsaber knowledge [I love Christopher Lee]).