The whole retention mechanics nonsense doesn't really fly when there are other games to play anyway. Trying to make me work harder to get more mileage from the game isn't very conducive.
I keep hit valor stone cap and had to start blowing them on a pvp set because i cant upgrade my gear anymore without gilded crests. And I'm not a sweat so i havent pushed anything above mythic 4 or normal raid. This is the glaring downside of retail compared to classic. In classic everyone does the same level of content and is able to get the same level of gear. I mean that's great people want harder content but it's dumb they get access to higher level gear and not just more gear per boss kill. I love the way SoD has done it where you can get all the gear doing the lowest raid level but if you want to do a higher raid level the bosses drop more loot to gear faster.
The worst thing is, in DF S3 and S4, i could get high enough to get the discount from my main, just from pugging with 3K+ IO i even finished a few 28s and 26s at times at the time. Nowdays however, i can't get higher than 62 6ilvl and everything up from there is a slow as f*ck grindy procedure which just not worth the time not only because of failures of others in pugs but also because it would literally take me 3 months to get to anything above 632ish even with this buff and i'd still wouldn't be close enough to get the discount for my alts, so you literally cannot play alts in this expansion and gear them past 610-616 and that's only through delves which are boring to the point i am losing brain cells.
I fill out the customer surveys but m+ I only touch on my main. The alts play AH, casual PVP, nothing of importance. It's a cycle though people complain how bad it is then it gets made slightly better. I swear this happened in Shadowlands also.
It's never too late to do something like this, and because it will extend into season 2, even better. And we aren't even close to the season ending yet, so there's more than enough time to make great use of this change.
@ I’m hoping we see a few more changes before season 2 actually starts. Blizzard will look at the response and the engagement in keys afterwards and see what else they need to do. It’s good when they make efforts to do these things and then it’s on us to make the best of it
Im burned out this season last x pac i maintained 3 tanks and 2 dps toons with plenty of time to spare i even started a monk tank! Now i barely make vault on all. I dont want to drop toons so im positive about this.btw lets make brewmaster tank great again!
There are too many frictions in the game. Friction between players who do M+ and players who do Delves. Friction between players who only have a main and players who play multiple/many alts. Friction between pugs and static groups. And so on. The one size fits all doesn't seem to work. It's a change because people are voting with their wallet. I don't think all the comments made that much difference. They only used the comments to find the easiest way to try to salvage the situation and stop the bleeding. Hoping people will bring their wallet back.
These changes are nothing but participation trophies for players that really should not be in M+ to begin with. Blizzard thinks that this is making m+ more accessible. It's not. It is making it more frustrating for competitive players that are expecting other players to work as hard as they do to learn their classes and dungeon mechanics. On the flipside it allows unqualified players to get into technically difficult content and get absolutely wrecked. I think we are going to see more guild only groups or private groups that run together and completely avoid LFG.
it was foolish to ever think that grinding m+ was a good option for crests. The cap for crests weekly should be a full clear of whatever the currently raid is. Or, they need to give a repeatable source that isnt muhpluh
@@ShawnSetGO you mean +3 ilvl, or enough crests to go from 1/8 to 8/8, 1/6 6/6, etc? Im just coming tuesday you will get enough gilded from Heroic to each week to 6/6 one hero track item (using the cheaper runed-> gilded bags. ) But my raid leader is on some shit if they think I am gonna grind a game mode I hate all week to play a game mode I do like for >2 hours on tuesday.
"too little, too late" couldn't be more accurate, lets be honest here Blizzard, you made people do 2-4 times the effort to be in a group for the same rewards and then you throw at them a helping hand of like 20% extra rewards. In what universe do these value align properly and a speciall in a good damn video game that you buy each expansion and you subscribe monthly to play. Seriously, the disrespect is getting clearer and clearer.
I started this game in 2009 and quit in 2010. I just now returned in September of 2024. I initially quit because of the frustrating grouping feature. My current Main is now sitting at 624. I have stopped leveling him up. Because of “my” boredom with leveling any further, I have created and leveled up 4 other characters to above 620 each. I have basically reached a roadblock in the game that has made it uninteresting to level up any further. Leveling was an OBSESSION up to this point in the game. Now, I hate it. There are 2 types of players in WOW . . . The first is the person who grinds the game to QUICKLY reach their goal. The second type of player works at a steady but manageable pace (for them) to reach their goal. “I” see the goal of both groups as getting to 636/639. THE DIFFERENCE IS THE GRIND. Group 1 realizes that they must rerun dozens/100s of the different Mythic+ dungeons to learn the mechanics enough to quickly progress in the game. Group 2 does not want to rerun dozens/100s of anything to learn the game and progress, because it makes the game unenjoyable and boring to them. Group 2 gets bored and drops the game. WOW loses players and money. Their ONLY alternative is to create some way for Group 2 to eventually reach 636/639 without too much of the grind . . . Or lose money. Group 1 then acts like they do not understand.
idk why they changed the crafting requirement from 60 to 90 in the first place. All 8 weekly keys just to acquire enough of crests for one craft? Like come on, why? If you make gearing more efficient ones and then revert that to wasting time, people are going to be pissed and rightfully so. More grind required in mediocre content doesn't really feel like something you want to do.
Problem of m+ is not drop rate of crests, or weather or not valorstones are caped.... those are just superficial issues and even though it is nice that blizz is trying to address them, it will not solve the problem of m+ as a content. Problem at it's core is combination of toxic players and a content that encourages such behavior. This means that you have far more people leaving this content because they are fed up with it, than you have number of players who start to get into this content. Inevitably you have a declining number of players that do it. Main difference between m+ and other content is that it is not just about completing the content, but how you do it. In arena, you win or you loose, nothing in between. Same with raid bosses, you either kill them or you don't. With M+, just clearing the dungeon is not enough, there is also a time limit and number of deaths. Game rates how you have performed base on these and even if you technicaly complete the dungeon, player might not have the satisfaction out of it, because it took too many tries, too many have died.... instead viewing the process as a struggle that has been overcome, thus feeling good about it, player is left with a frustration about their personal or team performance. This results in people choosing the safe approach when making groups. Preferring overgeared players and meta-classes to ensure their odds of completing this content according to their expectations. Effectively locking away new players and people with characters who's class/specs are not trending at this moment. As much as the players are to blame for the current situation, it makes sense that the things are the way they are. If you are forming a group, you want to make sure the run goes smoothly. You don't want to risk others leaving if wipe happens, so you pick those that you think are less likely to die. High ilevel means better performance. Higher score means they know the tactics and so on... As much as the forum ragers and clickbait videos like to claim, m+ is not dead. PvE guilds and players with dedicated groups still do it and will continue to do so. But they usually stand outside the place where the problem is, Pugs. Pugs were never intended to be the main way to clear any content, they were simply meant as a sort of last resort when for some reason you can't complete the content the intended way, with guilds. What blizz should maybe focus on more than duct taping holes in their content concepts is promoting and encouraging what was the original idea behind MMO, playing the game as a part of community. As for the players struggling with current state of things, before you do specific content, find people that you actually like to play with. You will have much better time than doomscrolling trough LFG tabs
Too little too late Make first weekly mythic vault starts at 8+ (as it was in S3 & S4 in DF after calculating the key squish) Gilded starts drops from 6+ (as it was in S3 & S4 in DF after calculating the key squish) Portals at 10+ (as it was in S3 & S4 in DF after calculating the key squish) Remove the Tanks nerfs ((as it was in S3 & S4 in DF after calculating the key squish)) Make any CC counts as interrupts (as it was in S3 & S4 in DF after calculating the key squish) In short blizzard needs to stop creating problems no one ask
@@TacBlades class balance is definitely important but that's at a constant change where as mythic + and delves can reach optimal States easily or between seasons
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm glad someone touches the Valorstones matter: I mean, why the hell does this game always have double-gated systems?!?
My theory is time spent.
Time gating, currency gating, just extending the life of content I suppose then making it easier when people leave cause of it
@@ShawnSetGOextending the period of the sub fee :P
Hard to play m+ still until philosophy of it becomes player vs mobs and not player vs add-ons.
"Guys, cake is still made out of shit, but we fixes speling error on its box"
Im hyped n been working on alts
This update will make it tons better I hope or at least show what the improvements will do
I have plenty of crests, it's valor stones I need. Blizzard please...
This game is a job. You can paid valorstones if you work a few hours a day doing world quests and delves. That's the currency you get paid!
Workin that 9-5
As someone that's doing delves and pvp... I don't have crests but tons of stones.
The whole retention mechanics nonsense doesn't really fly when there are other games to play anyway. Trying to make me work harder to get more mileage from the game isn't very conducive.
Creates habits of players coming in the second half of the season
I keep hit valor stone cap and had to start blowing them on a pvp set because i cant upgrade my gear anymore without gilded crests. And I'm not a sweat so i havent pushed anything above mythic 4 or normal raid. This is the glaring downside of retail compared to classic. In classic everyone does the same level of content and is able to get the same level of gear. I mean that's great people want harder content but it's dumb they get access to higher level gear and not just more gear per boss kill. I love the way SoD has done it where you can get all the gear doing the lowest raid level but if you want to do a higher raid level the bosses drop more loot to gear faster.
Agreed. There are many sources for gear but you have to specifically farm one type of content to increase upgrading gear and it gets tedious
Valorstone acquisition isn’t a problem imo. But I think valorstone should be currency for other use beside gear upgrade. Like maybe use for M+ repair.
The worst thing is, in DF S3 and S4, i could get high enough to get the discount from my main, just from pugging with 3K+ IO i even finished a few 28s and 26s at times at the time.
Nowdays however, i can't get higher than 62 6ilvl and everything up from there is a slow as f*ck grindy procedure which just not worth the time not only because of failures of others in pugs
but also because it would literally take me 3 months to get to anything above 632ish even with this buff and i'd still wouldn't be close enough to get the discount for my alts,
so you literally cannot play alts in this expansion and gear them past 610-616 and that's only through delves which are boring to the point i am losing brain cells.
I fill out the customer surveys but m+ I only touch on my main. The alts play AH, casual PVP, nothing of importance. It's a cycle though people complain how bad it is then it gets made slightly better. I swear this happened in Shadowlands also.
Yeah they opened up some avenues but most people people only playa niche of content which I guess is fine but it feels like 80% of the game is skipped
It's never too late to do something like this, and because it will extend into season 2, even better. And we aren't even close to the season ending yet, so there's more than enough time to make great use of this change.
As long as they realize that increasing is an improvement, then hopefully it will continue in that direction
@ I’m hoping we see a few more changes before season 2 actually starts. Blizzard will look at the response and the engagement in keys afterwards and see what else they need to do. It’s good when they make efforts to do these things and then it’s on us to make the best of it
Im burned out this season last x pac i maintained 3 tanks and 2 dps toons with plenty of time to spare i even started a monk tank! Now i barely make vault on all. I dont want to drop toons so im positive about this.btw lets make brewmaster tank great again!
Bare minimum vaults have been my motto for a bit lol
There are too many frictions in the game. Friction between players who do M+ and players who do Delves. Friction between players who only have a main and players who play multiple/many alts. Friction between pugs and static groups. And so on. The one size fits all doesn't seem to work.
It's a change because people are voting with their wallet. I don't think all the comments made that much difference. They only used the comments to find the easiest way to try to salvage the situation and stop the bleeding. Hoping people will bring their wallet back.
These changes are nothing but participation trophies for players that really should not be in M+ to begin with.
Blizzard thinks that this is making m+ more accessible. It's not. It is making it more frustrating for competitive players that are expecting other players to work as hard as they do to learn their classes and dungeon mechanics. On the flipside it allows unqualified players to get into technically difficult content and get absolutely wrecked.
I think we are going to see more guild only groups or private groups that run together and completely avoid LFG.
I can see what you mean, an unintended consequence for sure.
Main is 622 and valor stone acquisition is a problem too I really thought that valor stones would get buffed!
it was foolish to ever think that grinding m+ was a good option for crests.
The cap for crests weekly should be a full clear of whatever the currently raid is. Or, they need to give a repeatable source that isnt muhpluh
It would be nice if maxing any vault slot = enough for a full upgrade
@@ShawnSetGO you mean +3 ilvl, or enough crests to go from 1/8 to 8/8, 1/6 6/6, etc?
Im just coming tuesday you will get enough gilded from Heroic to each week to 6/6 one hero track item (using the cheaper runed-> gilded bags. )
But my raid leader is on some shit if they think I am gonna grind a game mode I hate all week to play a game mode I do like for >2 hours on tuesday.
"too little, too late" couldn't be more accurate, lets be honest here Blizzard, you made people do 2-4 times the effort to be in a group for the same rewards and then you throw at them a helping hand of like 20% extra rewards.
In what universe do these value align properly and a speciall in a good damn video game that you buy each expansion and you subscribe monthly to play.
Seriously, the disrespect is getting clearer and clearer.
Retroactively rewarding players would be a start, dont think itll happen though
I started this game in 2009 and quit in 2010. I just now returned in September of 2024. I initially quit because of the frustrating grouping feature. My current Main is now sitting at 624. I have stopped leveling him up. Because of “my” boredom with leveling any further, I have created and leveled up 4 other characters to above 620 each. I have basically reached a roadblock in the game that has made it uninteresting to level up any further. Leveling was an OBSESSION up to this point in the game. Now, I hate it. There are 2 types of players in WOW . . . The first is the person who grinds the game to QUICKLY reach their goal. The second type of player works at a steady but manageable pace (for them) to reach their goal. “I” see the goal of both groups as getting to 636/639. THE DIFFERENCE IS THE GRIND. Group 1 realizes that they must rerun dozens/100s of the different Mythic+ dungeons to learn the mechanics enough to quickly progress in the game. Group 2 does not want to rerun dozens/100s of anything to learn the game and progress, because it makes the game unenjoyable and boring to them. Group 2 gets bored and drops the game. WOW loses players and money. Their ONLY alternative is to create some way for Group 2 to eventually reach 636/639 without too much of the grind . . . Or lose money. Group 1 then acts like they do not understand.
@@Joopman that's rough man you missed out though
@@ShawnSetGO I know.
I just want 626 gear from dungeons i have not had crest issues which may be because I get one piece of gear a week.
Only getting gear from vault is a sad reality we live in
idk why they changed the crafting requirement from 60 to 90 in the first place. All 8 weekly keys just to acquire enough of crests for one craft? Like come on, why? If you make gearing more efficient ones and then revert that to wasting time, people are going to be pissed and rightfully so.
More grind required in mediocre content doesn't really feel like something you want to do.
Problem of m+ is not drop rate of crests, or weather or not valorstones are caped.... those are just superficial issues and even though it is nice that blizz is trying to address them, it will not solve the problem of m+ as a content.
Problem at it's core is combination of toxic players and a content that encourages such behavior. This means that you have far more people leaving this content because they are fed up with it, than you have number of players who start to get into this content. Inevitably you have a declining number of players that do it.
Main difference between m+ and other content is that it is not just about completing the content, but how you do it. In arena, you win or you loose, nothing in between. Same with raid bosses, you either kill them or you don't. With M+, just clearing the dungeon is not enough, there is also a time limit and number of deaths. Game rates how you have performed base on these and even if you technicaly complete the dungeon, player might not have the satisfaction out of it, because it took too many tries, too many have died.... instead viewing the process as a struggle that has been overcome, thus feeling good about it, player is left with a frustration about their personal or team performance.
This results in people choosing the safe approach when making groups. Preferring overgeared players and meta-classes to ensure their odds of completing this content according to their expectations. Effectively locking away new players and people with characters who's class/specs are not trending at this moment.
As much as the players are to blame for the current situation, it makes sense that the things are the way they are. If you are forming a group, you want to make sure the run goes smoothly. You don't want to risk others leaving if wipe happens, so you pick those that you think are less likely to die. High ilevel means better performance. Higher score means they know the tactics and so on...
As much as the forum ragers and clickbait videos like to claim, m+ is not dead. PvE guilds and players with dedicated groups still do it and will continue to do so. But they usually stand outside the place where the problem is, Pugs. Pugs were never intended to be the main way to clear any content, they were simply meant as a sort of last resort when for some reason you can't complete the content the intended way, with guilds. What blizz should maybe focus on more than duct taping holes in their content concepts is promoting and encouraging what was the original idea behind MMO, playing the game as a part of community.
As for the players struggling with current state of things, before you do specific content, find people that you actually like to play with. You will have much better time than doomscrolling trough LFG tabs
Too little too late
Make first weekly mythic vault starts at 8+ (as it was in S3 & S4 in DF after calculating the key squish)
Gilded starts drops from 6+ (as it was in S3 & S4 in DF after calculating the key squish)
Portals at 10+ (as it was in S3 & S4 in DF after calculating the key squish)
Remove the Tanks nerfs ((as it was in S3 & S4 in DF after calculating the key squish))
Make any CC counts as interrupts (as it was in S3 & S4 in DF after calculating the key squish)
In short blizzard needs to stop creating problems no one ask
Valorstones are my bottleneck
That seems to be the running theme
GOD, pls help me find art from preview
PixiAi ysera, good luck on your search
Yes too late no one cares lack of content and delves vs m+ problems and class balance are the problems.
@@TacBlades class balance is definitely important but that's at a constant change where as mythic + and delves can reach optimal States easily or between seasons
too late. people already left game and at this point they wont come back until new season.
To little to nothing this barely starch’s the surface
there nothing good with Microsoft acquisition the lost Xbox and now blizzards
This whole crest/valor stone system needs to go, I’ve done the content just give me the fuckin gear…..
Yes, far too late.
They are always to late.