I am a fisherman.. I use a casting net which seems close to a battle net. These nets have weights at the bottom, surrounding the fridge of the net. ...dude absolutely I can see getting slapped in the face by lead weights really suck, hurt, and thus deal damage.
Gloomstalker gets an extra attack each time they take the attack action in the first round of combat so with action surge they actually get two attacks each of which get the d8 if they hit. Pretty weird but that’s how the rules are written (but probably not intended)
Hm... "if you take the attack action... as part of that action..." my goodness I do believe you're right. Obviously a DM might overrule it, but nice find... 9 attacks in a single round at 17 tyvm.
This is a huge thing at our table. As a gloomstalker/echo knight, I take oodles of attacks in the first round and "take out the trash" so to speak. Allowing the rest of the party to focus fire on the big baddie. Gloomstalker is my favorite :)
I was a level 5 gloom stalker, level 3 assassin and level 2 fighter, with longbow and sharpshooter. Our party was attacking a group of giants. I was dropped onto a hill outside combat by our druid, then on the first round I nuked the boss from a distance doing something nuts like 170 dmg by stacking all the turn 1 bonuses. After that I had nothing and just fired arrows for piss poor damage for the rest of combat.
9:00 if you can't get Elven Accuracy, the Tal'Dorei book gives us the Thrown Arms Master feat, which lets us add more range to thrown weapons (up to 80 ft for dart, 55 ft for net), and gives thrown properties to all melee weapons.
Note! If you were following this guide by taking Elven Accuracy with Custom Lineage, make sure you discuss with your DM as it conflicts with advice given by Jeremy Crawford. See our discussion about it here: ruclips.net/video/CrqbFF9fOVM/видео.html
Confession: typically when your videos come out, I hit like and leave a comment to help with YT stuff because I love the channel. Then usually listen to them later when I’m driving or watch them when I have some free time. All this to say, it’s evident you guys had a lot of fun while doing the 5k special that came out yesterday. The training segment was pure hilarity, and I wanted to say I loved it especially. Thank you both to you, Colby and to the DM squad. It made my day.
So, as far as I know, Gloom stalker allows you to make an additional attack when using the attack action, so when you action surge it gives you 2 additional attacks (one for each attack action). So if level 3 ranger, level 11 fighter, you are looking at 1 net attack, 8 dart attacks, on round 1 while action surging.
As far as the net goes, as a DM I would definitely allow the damage from the bonuses for one because I love the weird loopholes that things like that have, and two because I wouldn’t want the abilities that the player took to be ineffective at early levels and on top of that all of my players optimize to some degree and so I wouldn’t want the one using this build to feel like they’re lagging behind everyone else.
For me there is only one problem: damage resistance to non-magical darts. If you go 2 lvls of artificer you get +1 to atk and dmg, the dart becomes magical and it comes back to your hand
I considered this and artificer is an good option that fixes it. What about soulknife rogue with psychic blades? The rules say "Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade." This wouldn't be magical but almost nothing is resistant to psychic damage. This would also do an extra 2d6 per round with a 3 level dip but you coudn't do assassin later (which I wouldn't do anyway). If you don't like the idea of psychic blades appearing out of nowhere you could reskin them as blades you are pulling out of your sleeve.
Returning Weapon also helps Poisoner dosages not become wasted on any misses. Then for your second infusion, Repeating Shot is a great alternate weapon packing a significant range increase. Put it on a Heavy Crossbow and now you don't necessarily have to go for CBE. Plenty of options for your BA in this build. 15ft max net range or even 60ft dart range often won't cut it. Eventually you and/or the enemies might be retreating due to low hps. Switch to your beefy d10 xbow and laugh as up to 400ft range still keeps you in the fight. Likely worth it in the same vain to take Artificer to 3 for Battlesmith. Now you have both dream reactions of Absorb Elements and Shield, and a Defender. Heroism to ignore fear--very nice package. Facing something too big to net in broad daylight? Faerie Fire has you covered...with a little luck. Might even counter some invisibility at some point. Two more issues with getting advantage dealt with. I could see Sanctuary coming in clutch too when you already have advantage in the dark, and would rather be safer after your turn than throwing one more dart. Or in tight corridors where the heavy crossbow's extra range won't matter...Chase and kite with Expeditious Retreat. Fantastic bonus option alternatives for when you aren't trying to nova. Which is most the time. This would probably be ideal if you know your DM doesn't use surprise often and isn't taking you to high levels. Stop at Fighter 5-6, and cut Rogue entirely. Artificer will likely be much more realistic improvements to the damage, survivability, and maybe even the burst. BM 5, Gloom 3, Battlesmith 3. Feeling solid here at level 11. Could reach Fighter 11 by 17, or just take it a bit further for feats. If Blood Hunter is allowed, dip 2-3 levels here. Crimson Rite will apply on every attack so long as you have the Returning infusion. Try to swap Fighting Styles so that BH takes Archery and Fighter/Ranger grab Blind Fighting. Now no one can hide from your combo. Ghostslayer is a clear winner if you're fighting lots of undead...though the bright weapon could really screw you. Order of Mutant for...+3 Int to really help with Artificer DCs like Faerie Fire. Or just become a Wererat and wig everybody out. Instead of imagining all the darts strapped to your limbs and inside your coat...pull out normal sized rats! From everywhere! Chuck them mercilessly! The last thing your foes will see are toxic rat teeth flying fang first at their face. Hail to the Nibbler.
Damm. I have been doing this on my own lenguage for months as twitter threads (this being optimizing D&D characters) and finding this channel feels like vindication on every warlock dip ive done and weird idea ive had. You got my suscribe and probably my money once i get some.
Have you thought of using DND Beyond or another resource to put up the builds as you go? Something visual besides your quick captions to track where you are and what the key points of the build are as you go?
yes - the problem is one of time, more than anything, and also knowing if we just do a character sheet at level 20 (which doesn't feel that helpful to me, personally) or one at, say, 6, 9, 13, and 17, so you can see the progress (which exacerbates the time problem...)
@@DnDDeepDive I only used dnd Beyond as an example. Even Tulok style would help greatly, especially since you go very in depth on each decision and it helps keep a quick reminder of where we are and such. It is your time though and your videos are great regardless.
@@hatenull Thanks! One day (hopefully soon?) I'll hire someone to help me with all the production stuff I get bogged down by/haven't gotten to yet so I can focus more on content creation :)
Quick note: Gloom stalker's extra attack during the 1st turn of combat states: "At the start of your first turn of each combat, your walking speed increases by 10 feet, which lasts until the end of that turn. If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon's damage type." Unless I'm reading it wrong if you action surge on that 1st turn, don't you also get an additional attack from gloom stalker during the 2nd set of attacks from action surge? The way its worded it doesn't seem to limit this extra attack to once per turn. love the build keep it up.
Yes, Jeremey Crawford stated on twitter that was the case, and it makes sense in the context of the feature itself. It's tied to the attack action so each time you take the attack action it should give that extra attack.
Its much less optimized, but i had made a version of this that uses Swarmkeeper Ranger just because I like the idea of a beekeeper going around throwing darts at people.
Today i can confirm... This is my favorite chanel, Im having a lot of fun checking all your builds, manking some changes, etc... Build ideas: - Sauron(LotR) - Debuffs, Mace, Heavy armor, Charms - Balrog (LotR) - Showd and WHIP??? A lot of fire and melee attacks - Oberyn (Game of Thrones) - Qstaff, lance? Acrobatics... - Gandalf (my favorite character), I made it a lot of times, but I never could imput much damage
29:50 - dueling also works with throwing weapons AND thrown weapon fighting meaning your darts are d4 + modifier + 4 and net with dueling and thrown weapon fighting gives it 4 damage. fun stuff
Note that while poison is the most common IMMUNITY, it is actually NOT a common RESISTANCE, which is all the Poisoner feat cares about. That said, it's usually fairly obvious when fighting something immune to poison (constructs, elementals, undead, basically anything without flesh), so you can just choose not to use poison against those targets. Also, ask your DM if you can research magical poisons that affect those targets anyway. One time my DM let me create poison out of holy water to use against undead, it was awesome.
Great vid colby! Very similar to 1 of the builds i've shared in the comments! Gotta say i love the quick toss + net idea! its now an alternative for the gloomstalker to gain advantage in daylight. Just want to point out though you are missing 1 attack at level 9. Dread ambusher triggers on both your action attacks and action surge attacks. So that"s 6. That also means you get the 1d8 bonus dmg twice! Then at level 14 you are doing 8 + quick toss net. One more thing, if you're in darkness, you can skip quick tossing the next and quick toss a dart or cast hunter's mark as you'll always have advantage as you technically have greater invis in darkness. Love this vid! Only weakness i see in the build is dealing with piercing resistance (which is why i added the battlesmith multiclass to my build so i get a magical returning dart). The poisoner is a nice upgrade over hunter's mark for multiple dmg upgrades though personally i wouldn't take it. I'd still pick martial adept.or fighting initiate=superior technique to add more.superiority dice/maneuver choices. Btw props on your positivity on every vid! One vid idea i can suggest is optimizing a save debuffer (like eloquence bard), seeing by how much you can lower saves and finding good spells/abilities that these can take advantage of these reduced saves to end combats quicker (aside from the typical banishment as the targets for that are limited).
One of my fav build's, lore bard/2 pally lvls. At lvl 8 you can summon Shadow blade at 4d8 psychic damage and smite for another 4d8. Take any elf for triple advantage. Not to mention all the other spells and skills/expertise. At 12th lvl cast steel wind strike 6d10 force DMG plus shadow blade, plus smites. yes you blow through spells, but after wards you still have your shadow balde for sustained 4d8 psychic DMG
There is a technicality that can allow you to do damage with a net - the hex or hunter's mark spells. They deal extra damage when you hit with an attack - nothing about requiring the weapon to do damage. It still won't let you add the superiority to damage, since that only increases weapon damage rolls, but in theory it would allow you to add the +10 damage from sharpshooter.
One of my party members used your Hexblade Warlock build and WAS the ultimate damage dealer, we snuck up on an Aboleth and using the Grave Cleric’s feature that give vulnerability yo the next attack it took, he dealt 190 damage in a single turn and killed it in a single go. This was the ultimate moment before a heavily homebrew player turned out to be able to do 200 damage in a single turn WITHOUT vulnerability. Now I’m looking at this for a new character and I can’t wait to try it.
Ha ha nice! I really loved the Needler - still high on my list of characters I'd like to try in game - see it in action in our 10k Gauntlet if you haven't yet :) ruclips.net/video/LAB9w3zL7iU/видео.html
Would be nice to see what these awesome builds would look like on a charactersheet, have a hard time remembering every feature and ability. So a link to an online charactersheet would be great to have along side these awesome video's.
Hello, stumbled upon your channel looking for Bladesinger tips, and after that I pretty much watched every build you made. I do not really play optimized characters, but I LOVE this whole concept of optimization (I study math and this is one of the more interesting parts of my degree), plus the concepts you present are interesting regardless of capability. I will probably try adapting some of these concepts to new characters I'll make. Keep it up!
If I were going to do a thrown build these days, it would be with two levels of artificer. Get that Returning infusion, so you only need ONE thrown weapon, instead of a bunch of extra copies of it.
As a forever DM for more than half of my life, I would allow you to apply bonus damage from thrown weapon style, sharpshooter feat, and quick toss maneuver to the DC and HP of the net. I don’t think that the net should do damage, but I do think the player should get some benefit when throwing a weapon with a character focused on thrown weapons.
Loving how you spice up a classic build strategy using nets and darts, especially quick-tossing a net. This feels like one of the most conditional builds yet, but was super fun to watch. Here’s a theme concept for the future: how many duplicates can a PC have up at one time? (Insert obligatory naruto reference) Another is the ultimate teleporter. Since there’s lots of ways to do so, what makes the most effective teleport build?
Great vid! As a sidenote: if you have a decent wisdom score, consider a dip into War cleric... you can throw a net without expending superiority dice (and add precision attack) a few times per day
Add 2 levels of wizard class you could simply create your poison as needed, and if you’ve seen purple worm poison then now you have an endless supply. Now you’ll be able to take down a dragon in one round of attacks by yourself.
"Poison is the most commonly resisted damage type of monsters" Wrong sorry. very very wrong. Its the most common immunity! (140 or so) but to date only 11 (!!!) creatures have resistance to poison making that feature of the poisoner feat kinda useless :/
5 fighter battlemaster, 3 gloomstalker, and 3 rogue assassin has great burst damage. You can invest in sharpshooter and crossbow expert if choosing custom lineage or human variant by that level. Gloomstalker gives initiative bonus to increase likelihood of initiative win. Gives circumstantial advantage on attacks from invisibility in the dark. The additional attack on the first round synergizes with action surge. Tashas game ves the ranger additional fighting styles, so blind fighting can be taken since archery is already chosen from the fighter. Canny gives an additional skill and expertise, potentially stealth or perception if necessary. Favored foe can be a little extra damage you can use when a crit happens along with your sneak die and leaves your bonus action open for your hand crossbow shot. Starting as a fighter grants Con save proficiency allowing for concentration to be kept when using hunters Mark or favored foe. Favored foe uses will scale with proficiency and will supplement the low number of spell slots this ranger dip has. Assassin gives advantage against creatures on the first turn if the target hasn’t acted yet. All attacks are also criticals against surprised foes on that turn. Sneak attack die will be doubled on a crit that’s likely on the first round. If the target is not surprised then the number of attacks and the high accuracy may make it worth crit fishing by waiting to apply sneak til a regular crit happens. Proficiency and Expertise in stealth and perception will be vital to this build. Battlemaster fighter allows for extra attack, action surge, archery fighting style at level 1, and maneuvers that recharge on a short rest. Precision attack allows for you to mitigate bad attack rolls when using sharpshooter which possibly turns a miss into a hit. Trip allows for you to potentially prone a target and allow for follow up attacks with advantage at close range. The new ambush maneuver allows for bonuses to stealth or initiative which further increases the likelihood of making use of your assassin features. This is up to 7 attacks on the first round with reliable opportunities to gain advantage on attacks. This makes full use of sneak attack and the feat selection. All the basic bells and whistles are achieved at level 11, but can be further improved upon by getting at least 11 in fighter to make 9 attacks with this set up.
Agreed with all except blind fighting style. That doesn't add a anything to the build. Better get superior technique for more superiority dice if longbow user. Or thrown weapon fighting if you are a thrower.
@@TheRobversion1 Blind fighting gives the ability to fight effectively when sources of heavy obscurity are around. This can range from fog cloud, darkness spell, heavy foliage, actual weather effects, being blinded from a spell, or even getting blinded by being swallowed by a large creature. It helps to ensure effectiveness in almost all circumstances where you are still able to act.
@@binolombardi Unles you are fighting with a darkness/fog user. i don't see the point. if you are, then sure though the range limitation of 10 ft makes it clunky to use (you have to wade in close). if you aren't and the source is an enemy, shouldn't you be alpha striking that enemy in the 1st round? I dunno how it is at your table but at mine, when there's a high threat target on the board, we do our best to kill it on the 1st round or at worst control it. we deal with minions later. I've personally found the extra maneuver/superiority dice more useful especially with assasin. having played this build myself in the past along with other iterations of the same gloomstalker + fighter chassis. Sometimes that extra dmg generates the kill of the high prio target on round 1 or at worst he's inflicted with a bunch of conditions (frightened, prone, etc). I've found the uses you mentioned (unless it's coming from within your own party) to be more situational or you're group is not handling the combat tactically (kill the spellcaster/high prio targets 1st).
@@TheRobversion1 The examples I listed are a combination of environmental effects and spell effects. My point is that these conditions can exist even if your party doesn’t set them up, and that there are creatures that can also make use of these conditions. Yes there’s spellcasting, but there are also aura effects, swallow effects, legendary actions, and lair features. Some types of lower CR creatures have access to this, like a lot of demons. If your DM doesn’t make use of the environment or creatures in this way, then it would indeed be limited to your party members. Leaves me wondering why your adversaries don’t seem to be using control effects against the party though. Is it just operation meat shield with a damage effect sometimes?
@@binolombardi well.he tries to. Happens at times but those are rare. As mentioned, we generally play alpha striking setups so initiative is important. So our goal is to always go ahead of enemies and control/kill before the monster can do anything debilitating. if it helps, our dm allows us to wish list magic items (appropriate to our tiers) and even buy common/uncommon magic items (with again a limit appropriate to our tiers). So we procure items that increase save dcs for casters or increase initiative like weapon of warning. As for spell control effect. We do have someone packing counterspell. Pretty much only legendary actions/lair effects make it tough for us to work around that which is why i said its circumstancial.
I will point out that using Canny to double your proficiency bonus with Perception does also double your proficiency bonus for your passive perception. That can be very significant depending on what kind of campaign you're playing.
This reminds me of a character way back in my 2E days. Guy came in with a gnome dart thrower. We laughed at his concept at first... until we realized he had 18/96 strength (yep, old system reference :)) and could pump out more damage than almost the rest of us combined. lol
Back in 2E, the real abuse was giving the optimized dart thrower a Dart of the Hornets Nest +1. When I was getting over 1,000 damage in one round with it, game was super broke.
Now Doctor C. Lander, i must point out something i considered with Darts and thats resistance to piercing. it would really bone you. Even if you found a magical dart.... or 10, thats still only 10 attacks worth (5 get found after and 5 are broken? can magical ammo break?) My idea would involve instead of Rogue, taking some levels in Artificer for that sweet sweet returning weapon. You get 1 magical Dart, always. Hell, you could whistle while throwing it and now youre YONDU from Guardians of the Galaxy Food for thought. Keep up the awesome work. PS. I watched the whole battle royal video and caught myself multiple times yelling "THE ADVANTAGE IS CANCELLED OUT BY INVISIBILITY", or "YOU HAVE A SPIRITUAL WEAPON ACTIVE" :)
Ref Nets. I allow the superiority dice, not to add damage, but to add to the DC 10 escape attempt to simulate the BM's knowledge of how to restrain the creature best.
For the net thing with Quick Toss, I would say it doesnt deal damage because a nets not exactly going to hurt you, and it also says it doesn't deal damage. However, I would rule it that you can add your superiority die to your attack role (possibly would have to be half your superiority die to prevent it from just being an auto-hit) just so you at least get to actually use the die.
As a DM, a net has an attack roll, but does not have damage. Sharpshooter: "If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage." This is additive to existing damage, which the net does not have. Thrown Weapon Fighting Style: "...you gain a +2 bonus to the damage roll." This requires a damage roll to be added to, which the net does not have. Superiority Dice: "...You add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll..." Again, this requires a preexisting damage roll, which the net does not have. EDIT: the net does not have a damage ROLL, but *technically* it's listed as inherently dealing 0 damage. I would allow Sharpshooter, since it does not require a roll, and that initial damage state enables the +10 damage from Sharpshooter to be applied.
So just a curious question, the net does 0 bludgeoning damage and you would not give it the bonuses. What about the blowgun that does 1 piercing? As it also does not have a roll.
@@daviddrake5637 i addressed your question already with an edit in my initial comment =) Just to make sure I'm more clear though, if there is no rolling damage, then there is no damage roll.
To answer the Quick Toss maneuver Superiority die question. If one of my players were wanting to use a net with this maneuver, I'd have the Superiority die roll add to the Strength check DC, instead of damage. There is a real life weapon that would work great with this and still achieve similar results, the Bolas. I've had them add to my game world. Bolas 5sp 1d4 bludgeoning 3lb. Finesse, Thrown (range 20/40), Special (same as net)
As someone who's been doing a lot of looking into dart throwing builds I knew exactly where you were going with the quick toss net thing :P It's a great trick.. I do however think you've failed to address an important issue for throwing builds, which is magical attacks.. Sadly we can't rely on a single weapon when we're trhowing darts, so it's a huge problem when we encounter enemies with resistance to non magical attacks.. A suggested fix is to take a 2 level artificer dip for the returning weapon infusion
I know elven accuracy gets a lot of guff but the actual math breaks out to ~+2 over what regular advantage gives you (+5). The real reason it’s perceived as so broken is the same thing that makes people think stunning strike is good. Using it feels good and when it lands it makes you feel very powerful despite its low impact across all rolls.
People don't take Elven Accuracy for the additionnal precision, they take it because it bumps the crit chance from 9.8% with normal advantage to 14.3%. Not that much in itself, but once stacked with that average +2 to hit, it starts to add up, particularly against high AC.
Was trying to figure out a artificer dart build and ofc found your video as a cool starting point. Piercer feat plays very nicely with assassin, since you would get all crits. Even though it's just d4s it's still extra on each attack.
I realize this is super late but I'm pretty sure you'd get an additional attack from dread ambusher because the wording is as a part of the attack action which you take each time you action surge.
Personally, I think I will twist the quick toss maneuver, so the character could add the superiority dice to either to hit or damage. Because when it comes to damage rolls and net, they in my point of view, just don't do damage, because then you also would have given a minimum of your attack modifier, even if it where a d0 you rolled with.
@@DnDDeepDive your HP build is easy. Hill Dwarf Totem Barbarian with Tough. At lvl 20 HP 340 as long as you have a 20 con before you hit lvl 20. For the AC 28 before spells and 35 with Shield of Faith and Shield but I think the top AC without a defender weapon is 32/34/39. 21 +3 plate 05 +3shield 02 Staff of Power 01 luck stone 01 cloak/ring of protection 01 Blessing of Protection 02 Shield of Faith (C) 05 shield 01 Defensive Fighting Style This Requires at least 1 lvl Sorcerer/Wizard or Warlock and at least 1 lvl Cleric W/h Heavy Armor if you choose Divine Soul Sorcerer your Heavy Armor can be from any class with it so take your level in Divine Soul as L2 and pick a class with good Armor and abilities that Boost AC.
if you cant or dont want elven accuracy you could take the fighter fighting style feat and have both the thrown and ranged fighting styles at 1st level
Instead of net you could maybe throw sand in the face if the creature to blind it (if the dm allows it). The creature can move but has disadvantages on attack roll if you want to move away.
On the net attack damage you could play it out as by having the feat and the maneuver it's like a proficiency in a way where you may tie rocks into your net that when thrown and hits it deals the damage as bludgeoning. Whether you would need to spend time per net to tie the rocks in would be up to your DM but I would say that it's just something you are able to do with great ease given the maneuver and fighting style
As opposed to the ASI and nd poisoner feat I would probably have gone gunner for the dex bump and no disadvantage at close range and then Piercer to get the 20 dex and damage bump.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, however wouldn't having crossbow expert also negate the disadvantage of the net attacks when within 5 ft. Allowing you to hit those more consistently.
I have worked up a similar build, but I'm playing as a Sea Elf Fighter (Dark vision, bonuses to Dex and Con, proficiency with nets). I described the character to my DM as what it would look like if Aquaman tried to fight like Batman. I probably could have considered just playing a ranger for more communion with sea creatures (Sea Elves, evidently, can communicate to creatures with a swim speed already) but I don't envision our journey will put us into contact with very many dolphins.
I was thinking Eldritch Knight because you could throw your weapon and then return it back to your hand but I had no idea the Battlemaster had a thrown weapon thing.
I see this build also being effective against a group of enemies, poisoning all of them to give disadvantage on their attacks for a full round and giving your party a chance to lay down damage
You Colby are like Candy. It might make you sick, but there is no way you are going to stop eating it, just like we will keep watching you (an no tummy ache even!)
What you think about using a grung for a dart build like this? You can add 2d4 poison damage on a CON save to each dart without any action economy loss. The DC is lower, but for no cost whatsoever that seems perfectly fine to me. It eliminates the need for the poisoner feat, and since only a few creatures actually resist poison (they're mostly immune) that part of the feat isn't much of a loss at all.
I'm sure someone else pointed this out. Also the video is "old" so it doesnt really matter, but the dart in 5e isnt the little throwing dart you use at a sports club to hit a dart board with. It's actually a javelin/spear type weapon.
I always reflavor it as something else anyway. A ninja star, or maybe a throwing knife. Since a dagger wouldn't really be a throwing knife either. Dagger would be a good 10-12" from hilt to tip. A throwing knife could be as short as 2-3" or longer.
Interesting point about the piercer feat: when you score a critical hit you add an additional weapon damage die to the damage of the attack. Interesting point about the assassin subclass: all your attacks on a surprised creature are critical hits. You can see where I'm going here, I'm sure. I'm currently playing a half orc assassin rogue/vengeance paladin who has the piercer feat for his dual wielding rapiers... Let's just say I test the limits of my dice collection! Also great content, I love your builds and how you make thematic choices around something that's also mechanically strong, it's exactly what I look for in a fun character!
i played a similar build in the past. great burst build. i just rank with eldritch smite over divine smite and went with 1 rapier. went with warlock as they have an inbuilt advantage generator. i'll share my level 10 theorycrafted version: 2 fighter, 5 daolock, 3 assassin half-orc: piercer dueling misty visions, thirsting blade, eldritch smite tactics: pre-combat: walk around in stealth+misty visions to generate suprise 1st round: bonus action: spirit shroud action: 2 auto crit attacks at advantage action surge: 2 auto crit attacks at advantage + eldritch smite + sneak attack. lots of dmg dice indeed. spirit shroud gets me an extra 8d8 while eldritch smite is another 8d8 + prone. when i played it and i reach level 12 i went battlemaster 4 so i could do the lunging attack + crusher + brace combo on the opening round for a 5th attack and more maneuvers to add on each attack for more bonus dmg dice for crits.
I love this build. What I'd really like to do, that will likely decrease your damage a bit, but will be fun, is take 3 levels of Dao Genie Warlock (really the patron doesn't matter as much), with Pact of the Chain, Investment of the Chain Master and Voice of the Chain Master. This way I have an invisible flying quasit that can linger near an enemy and I can use a disarming attack, then my invisible familiar can pick up their weapon or arcane focus or component pouch, or whatever they were holding. It then becomes invisible, like the familiar, then they can just fly out of range with it. Then I store it in my Genie vessel with all of the other things I've disarmed from folks. I also have a few utility spells and cantrips from Warlock, and a fun familiar.
If you pained for, commissioned or crafted a net that has a razer linked chains, then I'd say it would do D4 (would also work well with the slasher feat movement reduction) and then you could add damage to it.
I have a Gladiator character in one of my games with a spiked steel net that does 1 piercing damage I let him add everything but thats just my way around it
I feel like the 5ft range of the net refers to using it as a melee weapon attack which would make sense if you look at roman gladiators who used nets, they would hold them in their offhand and whip them at the enemy to tangle them up or catch a shield and they could keep hold of the net to drag the enemy if they were restrained. I think D&D looks at the net like a fishing or casting net.. and that isn't what you'd be using here, it would basically be more like a grid made of rope with hooks or weights tied to it, google search retiarius, they were the net and spear gladiators. Also you could use the net in melee as an 'improvised weapon' to negate the disadvantage and since a net resembles a net the DM may let you keep your proficiency (Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.) It might make more sense to classify the net as a martial melee weapon with the finesse and thrown quality. Maybe in 5.5?
If you're using dagger instead of dart, since they are melee weapon, you can actually dual wield them to attack as bonus action without having to use a manoeuver to do some quicktoss. And yes, you can off hand throw a weapon as two weapon fighting rule if you're using melee light weapon with the thrown property (so dagger insteand of dart). It's in PHB page 195
Another possibility for fun instead of Gloom Stalker is a College of Swords bard. Their Blade Flourish works with a weapon attack (ranged or melee) so you can get some more Manuever-like abilities. You can also pick up Hex with Fey-touched or the new Hexblood lineage. Extra damage and you can debuff Strength to make it harder to get out the net.
It's a burst build. removing gloomstalker would hurt the build alot. gloomstalker and fighter is the core chassis. moreover, keeping the enemy in the net isn't important. it's just an option to generate advantage when he's in daylight (can't use umbral sight).
Really enjoy the build...i am trying it in a game now...starting at lvl 5 so it should start to get spicy soon. Question: Have you considered attaching a spreadsheet to each build - with the progression and primary attack combo - maybe even DPR ?
Wow, I love this build. It's very original, up my alley. Maybe this came up earlier, and I apologize if it did, but I think Favored Foe uses concentration, so it doesn't stack with Hunter's Mark.
I am a fisherman.. I use a casting net which seems close to a battle net. These nets have weights at the bottom, surrounding the fridge of the net. ...dude absolutely I can see getting slapped in the face by lead weights really suck, hurt, and thus deal damage.
I wasn’t ready for that plot twist with the quick toss net..clever Colby!
Gloomstalker gets an extra attack each time they take the attack action in the first round of combat so with action surge they actually get two attacks each of which get the d8 if they hit. Pretty weird but that’s how the rules are written (but probably not intended)
Hm... "if you take the attack action... as part of that action..." my goodness I do believe you're right. Obviously a DM might overrule it, but nice find... 9 attacks in a single round at 17 tyvm.
@@DnDDeepDive i'd allow it XD
This is a huge thing at our table. As a gloomstalker/echo knight, I take oodles of attacks in the first round and "take out the trash" so to speak. Allowing the rest of the party to focus fire on the big baddie. Gloomstalker is my favorite :)
I was a level 5 gloom stalker, level 3 assassin and level 2 fighter, with longbow and sharpshooter. Our party was attacking a group of giants. I was dropped onto a hill outside combat by our druid, then on the first round I nuked the boss from a distance doing something nuts like 170 dmg by stacking all the turn 1 bonuses. After that I had nothing and just fired arrows for piss poor damage for the rest of combat.
@@TheTwitchyBrownGuy Worth! :)
"Let's discuss nets"
I instantly realised exactly how this build was going to work. What a brilliant idea!
9:00 if you can't get Elven Accuracy, the Tal'Dorei book gives us the Thrown Arms Master feat, which lets us add more range to thrown weapons (up to 80 ft for dart, 55 ft for net), and gives thrown properties to all melee weapons.
Note! If you were following this guide by taking Elven Accuracy with Custom Lineage, make sure you discuss with your DM as it conflicts with advice given by Jeremy Crawford. See our discussion about it here: ruclips.net/video/CrqbFF9fOVM/видео.html
Confession: typically when your videos come out, I hit like and leave a comment to help with YT stuff because I love the channel. Then usually listen to them later when I’m driving or watch them when I have some free time.
All this to say, it’s evident you guys had a lot of fun while doing the 5k special that came out yesterday. The training segment was pure hilarity, and I wanted to say I loved it especially. Thank you both to you, Colby and to the DM squad. It made my day.
Thanks friend! I appreciate the feedback and the algorithm bumps :)
My man! You have the best build guides! Your in depth character creation has been a huge game changer for me. Thank you 🙏
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying :)
You could be a grung at the start for the free poison? Be a poison dart frog.
yusssss
I’m definitely doing that.
Who cares about advantage when you do poison of your type
Try grung ua path of the giant barbarian ;)
I bring good news from the future
So, as far as I know, Gloom stalker allows you to make an additional attack when using the attack action, so when you action surge it gives you 2 additional attacks (one for each attack action). So if level 3 ranger, level 11 fighter, you are looking at 1 net attack, 8 dart attacks, on round 1 while action surging.
Yes! Thanks for the catch!
The metal intro with your low key slightly zen, number crunching, and clean style is an interesting dichotomy.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)
--Walt Whitman
;)
I do love optimisation within specific constraints/concepts.
As far as the net goes, as a DM I would definitely allow the damage from the bonuses for one because I love the weird loopholes that things like that have, and two because I wouldn’t want the abilities that the player took to be ineffective at early levels and on top of that all of my players optimize to some degree and so I wouldn’t want the one using this build to feel like they’re lagging behind everyone else.
Found this channel a few days ago. Great content and I appreciate the tone and delivery.
Thanks! Welcome!
Your pure joy when crunching the damage is infectious
For me there is only one problem: damage resistance to non-magical darts. If you go 2 lvls of artificer you get +1 to atk and dmg, the dart becomes magical and it comes back to your hand
I considered this and artificer is an good option that fixes it. What about soulknife rogue with psychic blades? The rules say "Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade." This wouldn't be magical but almost nothing is resistant to psychic damage. This would also do an extra 2d6 per round with a 3 level dip but you coudn't do assassin later (which I wouldn't do anyway). If you don't like the idea of psychic blades appearing out of nowhere you could reskin them as blades you are pulling out of your sleeve.
Another problem is to face huge or larger creatures, in witch case you can't use nets. I don't now how to solve that
Returning Weapon also helps Poisoner dosages not become wasted on any misses. Then for your second infusion, Repeating Shot is a great alternate weapon packing a significant range increase. Put it on a Heavy Crossbow and now you don't necessarily have to go for CBE. Plenty of options for your BA in this build. 15ft max net range or even 60ft dart range often won't cut it. Eventually you and/or the enemies might be retreating due to low hps. Switch to your beefy d10 xbow and laugh as up to 400ft range still keeps you in the fight. Likely worth it in the same vain to take Artificer to 3 for Battlesmith. Now you have both dream reactions of Absorb Elements and Shield, and a Defender. Heroism to ignore fear--very nice package.
Facing something too big to net in broad daylight? Faerie Fire has you covered...with a little luck. Might even counter some invisibility at some point. Two more issues with getting advantage dealt with. I could see Sanctuary coming in clutch too when you already have advantage in the dark, and would rather be safer after your turn than throwing one more dart. Or in tight corridors where the heavy crossbow's extra range won't matter...Chase and kite with Expeditious Retreat. Fantastic bonus option alternatives for when you aren't trying to nova. Which is most the time.
This would probably be ideal if you know your DM doesn't use surprise often and isn't taking you to high levels. Stop at Fighter 5-6, and cut Rogue entirely. Artificer will likely be much more realistic improvements to the damage, survivability, and maybe even the burst. BM 5, Gloom 3, Battlesmith 3. Feeling solid here at level 11. Could reach Fighter 11 by 17, or just take it a bit further for feats. If Blood Hunter is allowed, dip 2-3 levels here. Crimson Rite will apply on every attack so long as you have the Returning infusion. Try to swap Fighting Styles so that BH takes Archery and Fighter/Ranger grab Blind Fighting. Now no one can hide from your combo. Ghostslayer is a clear winner if you're fighting lots of undead...though the bright weapon could really screw you. Order of Mutant for...+3 Int to really help with Artificer DCs like Faerie Fire. Or just become a Wererat and wig everybody out. Instead of imagining all the darts strapped to your limbs and inside your coat...pull out normal sized rats! From everywhere! Chuck them mercilessly! The last thing your foes will see are toxic rat teeth flying fang first at their face. Hail to the Nibbler.
Oh completely, next to a 2 level dip in fighter I think a 2 level dip in Artificer is probably the best two levels you can get.
I'm just laughing at the mental image of a character throwing and catching the same dart over and over again
Is there anyone else who heard him say Battlemaster and thought: “Of course, interesting maneuver”
I too was expecting a PoR meme.
FYI sir your graphs and math have captured the hearts of our lil slice of nerdom well done!
Ha ha - thanks and glad you're enjoying!
Damm.
I have been doing this on my own lenguage for months as twitter threads (this being optimizing D&D characters) and finding this channel feels like vindication on every warlock dip ive done and weird idea ive had.
You got my suscribe and probably my money once i get some.
Thank you! And welcome!
Interesting idea to get hunter's mark off pre-combat would be to take the metamagic adept feat with subtle spell to cast it silently.
Have you thought of using DND Beyond or another resource to put up the builds as you go? Something visual besides your quick captions to track where you are and what the key points of the build are as you go?
yes - the problem is one of time, more than anything, and also knowing if we just do a character sheet at level 20 (which doesn't feel that helpful to me, personally) or one at, say, 6, 9, 13, and 17, so you can see the progress (which exacerbates the time problem...)
@@DnDDeepDive I only used dnd Beyond as an example. Even Tulok style would help greatly, especially since you go very in depth on each decision and it helps keep a quick reminder of where we are and such. It is your time though and your videos are great regardless.
@@hatenull Thanks! One day (hopefully soon?) I'll hire someone to help me with all the production stuff I get bogged down by/haven't gotten to yet so I can focus more on content creation :)
There's one huge problem. Custom Lineage doesn't work like he builds so he couldn't take Elven Accuracy.
@@DnDDeepDive Id love to help you with this :D
Quick note: Gloom stalker's extra attack during the 1st turn of combat states: "At the start of your first turn of each combat, your walking speed increases by 10 feet, which lasts until the end of that turn. If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon's damage type."
Unless I'm reading it wrong if you action surge on that 1st turn, don't you also get an additional attack from gloom stalker during the 2nd set of attacks from action surge? The way its worded it doesn't seem to limit this extra attack to once per turn.
love the build keep it up.
Came here to say this. Dread ambusher is amazing with action surge
Yes, Jeremey Crawford stated on twitter that was the case, and it makes sense in the context of the feature itself. It's tied to the attack action so each time you take the attack action it should give that extra attack.
I want to grab a couple of bear traps for this character, along with some caltrops, and make them a super set up ambush hunter. Awesome build!
You can always dip 1 or 2 levels Cleric of the Twilight for advantage on initiative, 300+ft darkvision, guidance, bless and channel divinity maybe.
What? I thought this was Torrey's channel now... :) Looking forward to her takeover episode when you take a break.
Ha ha - you and me both! I could use a vacation... >.>
@@ericpeterson8732 Hey now! Other than the Lockadin I haven't had a Warlock level since November 10th - cut me some slack! ;)
@Chaplain Rock I need you to know that you're basically responsible for all of the "This is Torrey's channel now" shenanigans of the past week :P
Optimize a character who uses a blowgun just for fun.😁
The Blowj...
Probably a Goblin Battle Master/ Gloomstalker/ Assassin with Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert.
Its much less optimized, but i had made a version of this that uses Swarmkeeper Ranger just because I like the idea of a beekeeper going around throwing darts at people.
Only if the darts also look like big bees.
Today i can confirm... This is my favorite chanel, Im having a lot of fun checking all your builds, manking some changes, etc...
Build ideas:
- Sauron(LotR) - Debuffs, Mace, Heavy armor, Charms
- Balrog (LotR) - Showd and WHIP??? A lot of fire and melee attacks
- Oberyn (Game of Thrones) - Qstaff, lance? Acrobatics...
- Gandalf (my favorite character), I made it a lot of times, but I never could imput much damage
Thank you! Got some LotR ideas on the list now!
if you make your gandalf an elf, then you could be a bladesinger wizard...
(also, gandalf is not hoomin, so there's that)
Im not even done with the video and im loving it
29:50 - dueling also works with throwing weapons AND thrown weapon fighting meaning your darts are d4 + modifier + 4 and net with dueling and thrown weapon fighting gives it 4 damage. fun stuff
Dueling only works with melee thrown weapons like daggers. Darts and nets are Ranged weapons.
Note that while poison is the most common IMMUNITY, it is actually NOT a common RESISTANCE, which is all the Poisoner feat cares about.
That said, it's usually fairly obvious when fighting something immune to poison (constructs, elementals, undead, basically anything without flesh), so you can just choose not to use poison against those targets.
Also, ask your DM if you can research magical poisons that affect those targets anyway. One time my DM let me create poison out of holy water to use against undead, it was awesome.
I am Brazilian and love the content of your channel, congratulations on your work
Thank you!
I think the gloom stalker extra attack is when you take the attack action, so you should get 2 if you action surge on your first turn
This^
Great vid colby!
Very similar to 1 of the builds i've shared in the comments!
Gotta say i love the quick toss + net idea! its now an alternative for the gloomstalker to gain advantage in daylight.
Just want to point out though you are missing 1 attack at level 9. Dread ambusher triggers on both your action attacks and action surge attacks. So that"s 6. That also means you get the 1d8 bonus dmg twice! Then at level 14 you are doing 8 + quick toss net.
One more thing, if you're in darkness, you can skip quick tossing the next and quick toss a dart or cast hunter's mark as you'll always have advantage as you technically have greater invis in darkness.
Love this vid!
Only weakness i see in the build is dealing with piercing resistance (which is why i added the battlesmith multiclass to my build so i get a magical returning dart).
The poisoner is a nice upgrade over hunter's mark for multiple dmg upgrades though personally i wouldn't take it. I'd still pick martial adept.or fighting initiate=superior technique to add more.superiority dice/maneuver choices.
Btw props on your positivity on every vid!
One vid idea i can suggest is optimizing a save debuffer (like eloquence bard), seeing by how much you can lower saves and finding good spells/abilities that these can take advantage of these reduced saves to end combats quicker (aside from the typical banishment as the targets for that are limited).
That's an amazing use of a net! I'm totally using this on some of my builds.
Thank you Homelander
One of my fav build's, lore bard/2 pally lvls. At lvl 8 you can summon Shadow blade at 4d8 psychic damage and smite for another 4d8. Take any elf for triple advantage. Not to mention all the other spells and skills/expertise. At 12th lvl cast steel wind strike 6d10 force DMG plus shadow blade, plus smites. yes you blow through spells, but after wards you still have your shadow balde for sustained 4d8 psychic DMG
There is a technicality that can allow you to do damage with a net - the hex or hunter's mark spells. They deal extra damage when you hit with an attack - nothing about requiring the weapon to do damage. It still won't let you add the superiority to damage, since that only increases weapon damage rolls, but in theory it would allow you to add the +10 damage from sharpshooter.
yup. RAW sharpshooting net works. haha.
One of my party members used your Hexblade Warlock build and WAS the ultimate damage dealer, we snuck up on an Aboleth and using the Grave Cleric’s feature that give vulnerability yo the next attack it took, he dealt 190 damage in a single turn and killed it in a single go. This was the ultimate moment before a heavily homebrew player turned out to be able to do 200 damage in a single turn WITHOUT vulnerability. Now I’m looking at this for a new character and I can’t wait to try it.
Ha ha nice! I really loved the Needler - still high on my list of characters I'd like to try in game - see it in action in our 10k Gauntlet if you haven't yet :) ruclips.net/video/LAB9w3zL7iU/видео.html
Inscribe thrown dager or whatever you trow with a glyf of warding with the activation "on hit" boom tons of damage...
15:00 "Wake up Hilda! I.. have invented a Maneuver!"
What are you a tank commander?
Would be nice to see what these awesome builds would look like on a charactersheet, have a hard time remembering every feature and ability. So a link to an online charactersheet would be great to have along side these awesome video's.
Hello, stumbled upon your channel looking for Bladesinger tips, and after that I pretty much watched every build you made. I do not really play optimized characters, but I LOVE this whole concept of optimization (I study math and this is one of the more interesting parts of my degree), plus the concepts you present are interesting regardless of capability. I will probably try adapting some of these concepts to new characters I'll make. Keep it up!
If I were going to do a thrown build these days, it would be with two levels of artificer. Get that Returning infusion, so you only need ONE thrown weapon, instead of a bunch of extra copies of it.
Hard to pass up... and +1 from the get go is really nice... just so hard to get that 13 Int! But for sure a worthy consideration.
As a forever DM for more than half of my life, I would allow you to apply bonus damage from thrown weapon style, sharpshooter feat, and quick toss maneuver to the DC and HP of the net. I don’t think that the net should do damage, but I do think the player should get some benefit when throwing a weapon with a character focused on thrown weapons.
Hear hear!
Loving how you spice up a classic build strategy using nets and darts, especially quick-tossing a net. This feels like one of the most conditional builds yet, but was super fun to watch. Here’s a theme concept for the future: how many duplicates can a PC have up at one time? (Insert obligatory naruto reference) Another is the ultimate teleporter. Since there’s lots of ways to do so, what makes the most effective teleport build?
Thanks - yes - not as bad as the Assasserer or probably the Grappler, but up there :). Ok will add to the list!
Great vid! As a sidenote: if you have a decent wisdom score, consider a dip into War cleric... you can throw a net without expending superiority dice (and add precision attack) a few times per day
I feel like Colby got a little emotional during that first damage report. So much damage!
Add 2 levels of wizard class you could simply create your poison as needed, and if you’ve seen purple worm poison then now you have an endless supply. Now you’ll be able to take down a dragon in one round of attacks by yourself.
"Poison is the most commonly resisted damage type of monsters" Wrong sorry. very very wrong.
Its the most common immunity! (140 or so) but to date only 11 (!!!) creatures have resistance to poison making that feature of the poisoner feat kinda useless :/
grab poisoner feat
5 fighter battlemaster, 3 gloomstalker, and 3 rogue assassin has great burst damage. You can invest in sharpshooter and crossbow expert if choosing custom lineage or human variant by that level.
Gloomstalker gives initiative bonus to increase likelihood of initiative win. Gives circumstantial advantage on attacks from invisibility in the dark. The additional attack on the first round synergizes with action surge. Tashas game ves the ranger additional fighting styles, so blind fighting can be taken since archery is already chosen from the fighter. Canny gives an additional skill and expertise, potentially stealth or perception if necessary. Favored foe can be a little extra damage you can use when a crit happens along with your sneak die and leaves your bonus action open for your hand crossbow shot. Starting as a fighter grants Con save proficiency allowing for concentration to be kept when using hunters Mark or favored foe. Favored foe uses will scale with proficiency and will supplement the low number of spell slots this ranger dip has.
Assassin gives advantage against creatures on the first turn if the target hasn’t acted yet. All attacks are also criticals against surprised foes on that turn. Sneak attack die will be doubled on a crit that’s likely on the first round. If the target is not surprised then the number of attacks and the high accuracy may make it worth crit fishing by waiting to apply sneak til a regular crit happens. Proficiency and Expertise in stealth and perception will be vital to this build.
Battlemaster fighter allows for extra attack, action surge, archery fighting style at level 1, and maneuvers that recharge on a short rest. Precision attack allows for you to mitigate bad attack rolls when using sharpshooter which possibly turns a miss into a hit. Trip allows for you to potentially prone a target and allow for follow up attacks with advantage at close range. The new ambush maneuver allows for bonuses to stealth or initiative which further increases the likelihood of making use of your assassin features.
This is up to 7 attacks on the first round with reliable opportunities to gain advantage on attacks. This makes full use of sneak attack and the feat selection. All the basic bells and whistles are achieved at level 11, but can be further improved upon by getting at least 11 in fighter to make 9 attacks with this set up.
Agreed with all except blind fighting style. That doesn't add a anything to the build. Better get superior technique for more superiority dice if longbow user. Or thrown weapon fighting if you are a thrower.
@@TheRobversion1
Blind fighting gives the ability to fight effectively when sources of heavy obscurity are around. This can range from fog cloud, darkness spell, heavy foliage, actual weather effects, being blinded from a spell, or even getting blinded by being swallowed by a large creature.
It helps to ensure effectiveness in almost all circumstances where you are still able to act.
@@binolombardi Unles you are fighting with a darkness/fog user. i don't see the point. if you are, then sure though the range limitation of 10 ft makes it clunky to use (you have to wade in close). if you aren't and the source is an enemy, shouldn't you be alpha striking that enemy in the 1st round?
I dunno how it is at your table but at mine, when there's a high threat target on the board, we do our best to kill it on the 1st round or at worst control it. we deal with minions later.
I've personally found the extra maneuver/superiority dice more useful especially with assasin. having played this build myself in the past along with other iterations of the same gloomstalker + fighter chassis. Sometimes that extra dmg generates the kill of the high prio target on round 1 or at worst he's inflicted with a bunch of conditions (frightened, prone, etc). I've found the uses you mentioned (unless it's coming from within your own party) to be more situational or you're group is not handling the combat tactically (kill the spellcaster/high prio targets 1st).
@@TheRobversion1
The examples I listed are a combination of environmental effects and spell effects. My point is that these conditions can exist even if your party doesn’t set them up, and that there are creatures that can also make use of these conditions.
Yes there’s spellcasting, but there are also aura effects, swallow effects, legendary actions, and lair features. Some types of lower CR creatures have access to this, like a lot of demons.
If your DM doesn’t make use of the environment or creatures in this way, then it would indeed be limited to your party members. Leaves me wondering why your adversaries don’t seem to be using control effects against the party though. Is it just operation meat shield with a damage effect sometimes?
@@binolombardi well.he tries to. Happens at times but those are rare. As mentioned, we generally play alpha striking setups so initiative is important. So our goal is to always go ahead of enemies and control/kill before the monster can do anything debilitating.
if it helps, our dm allows us to wish list magic items (appropriate to our tiers) and even buy common/uncommon magic items (with again a limit appropriate to our tiers). So we procure items that increase save dcs for casters or increase initiative like weapon of warning.
As for spell control effect. We do have someone packing counterspell.
Pretty much only legendary actions/lair effects make it tough for us to work around that which is why i said its circumstancial.
I will point out that using Canny to double your proficiency bonus with Perception does also double your proficiency bonus for your passive perception. That can be very significant depending on what kind of campaign you're playing.
best pick for canny imo.
This reminds me of a character way back in my 2E days. Guy came in with a gnome dart thrower. We laughed at his concept at first... until we realized he had 18/96 strength (yep, old system reference :)) and could pump out more damage than almost the rest of us combined. lol
Back in 2E, the real abuse was giving the optimized dart thrower a Dart of the Hornets Nest +1. When I was getting over 1,000 damage in one round with it, game was super broke.
@@halflbobeef Ha! I don't remember that item.
Now Doctor C. Lander, i must point out something i considered with Darts and thats resistance to piercing. it would really bone you. Even if you found a magical dart.... or 10, thats still only 10 attacks worth (5 get found after and 5 are broken? can magical ammo break?)
My idea would involve instead of Rogue, taking some levels in Artificer for that sweet sweet returning weapon. You get 1 magical Dart, always. Hell, you could whistle while throwing it and now youre YONDU from Guardians of the Galaxy
Food for thought.
Keep up the awesome work.
PS. I watched the whole battle royal video and caught myself multiple times yelling "THE ADVANTAGE IS CANCELLED OUT BY INVISIBILITY", or "YOU HAVE A SPIRITUAL WEAPON ACTIVE"
:)
Ref Nets. I allow the superiority dice, not to add damage, but to add to the DC 10 escape attempt to simulate the BM's knowledge of how to restrain the creature best.
ooo, I like that.
This was what I was going to propose to my DM as an alternative to doing damage.
For the net thing with Quick Toss, I would say it doesnt deal damage because a nets not exactly going to hurt you, and it also says it doesn't deal damage. However, I would rule it that you can add your superiority die to your attack role (possibly would have to be half your superiority die to prevent it from just being an auto-hit) just so you at least get to actually use the die.
This is a super clever and fun build.
As a DM, a net has an attack roll, but does not have damage.
Sharpshooter: "If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage." This is additive to existing damage, which the net does not have.
Thrown Weapon Fighting Style: "...you gain a +2 bonus to the damage roll." This requires a damage roll to be added to, which the net does not have.
Superiority Dice: "...You add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll..." Again, this requires a preexisting damage roll, which the net does not have.
EDIT: the net does not have a damage ROLL, but *technically* it's listed as inherently dealing 0 damage. I would allow Sharpshooter, since it does not require a roll, and that initial damage state enables the +10 damage from Sharpshooter to be applied.
So just a curious question, the net does 0 bludgeoning damage and you would not give it the bonuses. What about the blowgun that does 1 piercing? As it also does not have a roll.
@@daviddrake5637 i addressed your question already with an edit in my initial comment =)
Just to make sure I'm more clear though, if there is no rolling damage, then there is no damage roll.
I'd rule it this way as well. Nice breakdown.
"if the attack hits, you add +10 to the attacks damage" even if the net didn't list 0 damage, it is technically an attack, so you add it. Simple.
To answer the Quick Toss maneuver Superiority die question. If one of my players were wanting to use a net with this maneuver, I'd have the Superiority die roll add to the Strength check DC, instead of damage.
There is a real life weapon that would work great with this and still achieve similar results, the Bolas. I've had them add to my game world.
Bolas 5sp 1d4 bludgeoning 3lb. Finesse, Thrown (range 20/40), Special (same as net)
Love the Bola!
As someone who's been doing a lot of looking into dart throwing builds I knew exactly where you were going with the quick toss net thing :P It's a great trick.. I do however think you've failed to address an important issue for throwing builds, which is magical attacks.. Sadly we can't rely on a single weapon when we're trhowing darts, so it's a huge problem when we encounter enemies with resistance to non magical attacks..
A suggested fix is to take a 2 level artificer dip for the returning weapon infusion
This is how i do it as well. Artificer is the 3rd multiclass instead of rogue. You get a +1 too and more spellcasting.
Or lvl 6 kensei monk, you also get the benefit of a dart as a monk weapon and therefore you can use the 1d6!
@@rafaelb.m.4756 kensei is indeed a good option for starting at higher levels (tier 3) but for lower levels, artificer is the more efficient option.
I know elven accuracy gets a lot of guff but the actual math breaks out to ~+2 over what regular advantage gives you (+5).
The real reason it’s perceived as so broken is the same thing that makes people think stunning strike is good. Using it feels good and when it lands it makes you feel very powerful despite its low impact across all rolls.
People don't take Elven Accuracy for the additionnal precision, they take it because it bumps the crit chance from 9.8% with normal advantage to 14.3%. Not that much in itself, but once stacked with that average +2 to hit, it starts to add up, particularly against high AC.
Really nice vid/build, you made the net viable!
Was trying to figure out a artificer dart build and ofc found your video as a cool starting point. Piercer feat plays very nicely with assassin, since you would get all crits. Even though it's just d4s it's still extra on each attack.
Always appreciate the videos
I realize this is super late but I'm pretty sure you'd get an additional attack from dread ambusher because the wording is as a part of the attack action which you take each time you action surge.
Personally, I think I will twist the quick toss maneuver, so the character could add the superiority dice to either to hit or damage. Because when it comes to damage rolls and net, they in my point of view, just don't do damage, because then you also would have given a minimum of your attack modifier, even if it where a d0 you rolled with.
IDK, realistically you could weave in spikes or blades in the net and make it deal damage imo. Not like anyone uses nets anyway.
Instead of a build focused on damage, imagine a build with the highest AC/HP possible. I think it'd be like 32 AC with the shield spell. HP? No idea.
I've done 3 tank builds to date - the Armorer was the highest AC build, and I think we got to 33 with shield? ruclips.net/video/uuhVGfWQpVo/видео.html
@@DnDDeepDive thanks boss, didn't interest me at first but now I must watch
@@DnDDeepDive your HP build is easy. Hill Dwarf Totem Barbarian with Tough. At lvl 20 HP 340 as long as you have a 20 con before you hit lvl 20. For the AC 28 before spells and 35 with Shield of Faith and Shield but I think the top AC without a defender weapon is 32/34/39.
21 +3 plate
05 +3shield
02 Staff of Power
01 luck stone
01 cloak/ring of protection
01 Blessing of Protection
02 Shield of Faith (C)
05 shield
01 Defensive Fighting Style
This Requires at least 1 lvl Sorcerer/Wizard or Warlock and at least 1 lvl Cleric W/h Heavy Armor if you choose Divine Soul Sorcerer your Heavy Armor can be from any class with it so take your level in Divine Soul as L2 and pick a class with good Armor and abilities that
Boost AC.
if you cant or dont want elven accuracy you could take the fighter fighting style feat and have both the thrown and ranged fighting styles at 1st level
Bottomless flask and boots of haste. Recommended magic items for the builds would be super cool too.
I let out an audible gasp when I heard that level 6 damage report! Insanity
Instead of net you could maybe throw sand in the face if the creature to blind it (if the dm allows it). The creature can move but has disadvantages on attack roll if you want to move away.
Pocket sand!
If you action surge on the first round of combat. you take the attack action twice so you should double dip on gloomstalker's bonus attack
On the net attack damage you could play it out as by having the feat and the maneuver it's like a proficiency in a way where you may tie rocks into your net that when thrown and hits it deals the damage as bludgeoning. Whether you would need to spend time per net to tie the rocks in would be up to your DM but I would say that it's just something you are able to do with great ease given the maneuver and fighting style
As opposed to the ASI and nd poisoner feat I would probably have gone gunner for the dex bump and no disadvantage at close range and then Piercer to get the 20 dex and damage bump.
Agreed. poisoner is a bit meh with low save dc with a bad dmg type.
Love the shirt. Great idea that I never considered, thank you.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed :)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, however wouldn't having crossbow expert also negate the disadvantage of the net attacks when within 5 ft. Allowing you to hit those more consistently.
t'would!
Ah! The trick shot artist! Love this sort of thing.
I have worked up a similar build, but I'm playing as a Sea Elf Fighter (Dark vision, bonuses to Dex and Con, proficiency with nets). I described the character to my DM as what it would look like if Aquaman tried to fight like Batman. I probably could have considered just playing a ranger for more communion with sea creatures (Sea Elves, evidently, can communicate to creatures with a swim speed already) but I don't envision our journey will put us into contact with very many dolphins.
I was thinking Eldritch Knight because you could throw your weapon and then return it back to your hand but I had no idea the Battlemaster had a thrown weapon thing.
artificer is easier or kensei if you just wanted to make them magical.
I see this build also being effective against a group of enemies, poisoning all of them to give disadvantage on their attacks for a full round and giving your party a chance to lay down damage
Love the idea.
You Colby are like Candy. It might make you sick, but there is no way you are going to stop eating it, just like we will keep watching you (an no tummy ache even!)
What you think about using a grung for a dart build like this? You can add 2d4 poison damage on a CON save to each dart without any action economy loss. The DC is lower, but for no cost whatsoever that seems perfectly fine to me. It eliminates the need for the poisoner feat, and since only a few creatures actually resist poison (they're mostly immune) that part of the feat isn't much of a loss at all.
Alright, now my next battle master will be named Heimlich
I'm sure someone else pointed this out. Also the video is "old" so it doesnt really matter, but the dart in 5e isnt the little throwing dart you use at a sports club to hit a dart board with. It's actually a javelin/spear type weapon.
I always reflavor it as something else anyway. A ninja star, or maybe a throwing knife. Since a dagger wouldn't really be a throwing knife either. Dagger would be a good 10-12" from hilt to tip. A throwing knife could be as short as 2-3" or longer.
Interesting point about the piercer feat: when you score a critical hit you add an additional weapon damage die to the damage of the attack.
Interesting point about the assassin subclass: all your attacks on a surprised creature are critical hits.
You can see where I'm going here, I'm sure. I'm currently playing a half orc assassin rogue/vengeance paladin who has the piercer feat for his dual wielding rapiers... Let's just say I test the limits of my dice collection!
Also great content, I love your builds and how you make thematic choices around something that's also mechanically strong, it's exactly what I look for in a fun character!
Great synergy! And thanks :)
i played a similar build in the past. great burst build. i just rank with eldritch smite over divine smite and went with 1 rapier. went with warlock as they have an inbuilt advantage generator. i'll share my level 10 theorycrafted version:
2 fighter, 5 daolock, 3 assassin
half-orc: piercer
dueling
misty visions, thirsting blade, eldritch smite
tactics:
pre-combat: walk around in stealth+misty visions to generate suprise
1st round:
bonus action: spirit shroud
action: 2 auto crit attacks at advantage
action surge: 2 auto crit attacks at advantage + eldritch smite + sneak attack.
lots of dmg dice indeed. spirit shroud gets me an extra 8d8 while eldritch smite is another 8d8 + prone. when i played it and i reach level 12 i went battlemaster 4 so i could do the lunging attack + crusher + brace combo on the opening round for a 5th attack and more maneuvers to add on each attack for more bonus dmg dice for crits.
I love this throwing weapon build! Like dual wielding, it is such a fun concept that unfortunately doesn't typically preform well in game.
I love this build. What I'd really like to do, that will likely decrease your damage a bit, but will be fun, is take 3 levels of Dao Genie Warlock (really the patron doesn't matter as much), with Pact of the Chain, Investment of the Chain Master and Voice of the Chain Master. This way I have an invisible flying quasit that can linger near an enemy and I can use a disarming attack, then my invisible familiar can pick up their weapon or arcane focus or component pouch, or whatever they were holding. It then becomes invisible, like the familiar, then they can just fly out of range with it. Then I store it in my Genie vessel with all of the other things I've disarmed from folks. I also have a few utility spells and cantrips from Warlock, and a fun familiar.
If you pained for, commissioned or crafted a net that has a razer linked chains, then I'd say it would do D4 (would also work well with the slasher feat movement reduction) and then you could add damage to it.
I have a Gladiator character in one of my games with a spiked steel net that does 1 piercing damage I let him add everything but thats just my way around it
"lets talk about nets, bay-bee".. it took me a second. Good one
I am nothing if not a teller of Dad jokes!
I think we needed to see the close-quarter shooter Fighting style from ua. Would have been perfect with this build
Or actual play I’d probably want to go with fighter to 11, but damn I love the elements of us build, gloom stalker fighters are just the best.
I feel like the 5ft range of the net refers to using it as a melee weapon attack which would make sense if you look at roman gladiators who used nets, they would hold them in their offhand and whip them at the enemy to tangle them up or catch a shield and they could keep hold of the net to drag the enemy if they were restrained. I think D&D looks at the net like a fishing or casting net.. and that isn't what you'd be using here, it would basically be more like a grid made of rope with hooks or weights tied to it, google search retiarius, they were the net and spear gladiators. Also you could use the net in melee as an 'improvised weapon' to negate the disadvantage and since a net resembles a net the DM may let you keep your proficiency (Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.) It might make more sense to classify the net as a martial melee weapon with the finesse and thrown quality. Maybe in 5.5?
If you're using dagger instead of dart, since they are melee weapon, you can actually dual wield them to attack as bonus action without having to use a manoeuver to do some quicktoss.
And yes, you can off hand throw a weapon as two weapon fighting rule if you're using melee light weapon with the thrown property (so dagger insteand of dart). It's in PHB page 195
Correct, you just won't be able to apply Sharpshooter.
@@DnDDeepDive nor benefit from archery (the best fighting style imo) and using your quick toss for the net.
Another possibility for fun instead of Gloom Stalker is a College of Swords bard. Their Blade Flourish works with a weapon attack (ranged or melee) so you can get some more Manuever-like abilities. You can also pick up Hex with Fey-touched or the new Hexblood lineage. Extra damage and you can debuff Strength to make it harder to get out the net.
It's a burst build. removing gloomstalker would hurt the build alot. gloomstalker and fighter is the core chassis. moreover, keeping the enemy in the net isn't important. it's just an option to generate advantage when he's in daylight (can't use umbral sight).
Cake or death? Cake? We're going to run out of cake at this rate...
Vindication 😁 this build is so fun to analyze, first time in my life I had to write down every combo in my head and i think i ended up pretty close💪
"I have invented a maneuver!!!!" LOL great job!
Barbed nets...
Dip into artificer maybe???
Really enjoy the build...i am trying it in a game now...starting at lvl 5 so it should start to get spicy soon.
Question:
Have you considered attaching a spreadsheet to each build - with the progression and primary attack combo - maybe even DPR ?
Wow, I love this build. It's very original, up my alley. Maybe this came up earlier, and I apologize if it did, but I think Favored Foe uses concentration, so it doesn't stack with Hunter's Mark.
Right - the intent was to use one or the other, not both :). Glad you enjoyed!