I agree 100% I've been curious about this weapon for many years, it is excellent to see this demonstration. certainly wouldn't want to get hit by one of these, just imagine hundreds of them being launched
I have been watching sling videos for a couple of days. Now, l have seen several on this particular type. What you have come up with seems to be the most accurate and sesible design. As much as anything, the simplicity and ease of reloading-very crucial in a war fighting situation- puts your design well ahead of others that have rather complicated mechanics and loading methods. Well done.
Ingenious! This definitely makes sense and it would have been so easy for them to adapt their original slings for dart throwing. They might not even have adapted them and just held then further down the release cord. This is fantastic and great research on your part. I knew what I'm doing once the weather improves... -Kick
"They might not even have adapted them and just held then further down the release cord." yes I tried that at first I didn't want to cut a sling. but by cutting and having a knot will be easier and faster to operate. All the forces are applied to the release cord so you'll need a better grip on it when compared to slinging stones and the forces between the cords is balanced. Good luck with the weather.
Slings are so light and easy to store that it's not an issue to have more than one on you. I've heard slingers would have long and short slings depending on the situation, and so could easily have these aswell. It would make sense considering they'd likely have less darts than stones/pellets.
As a speaker of modern Greek (with decent command of ancient Greek) I agree with your linguistic interpretation on the text of Polybius. I should like to note that if you joined a piece of timber in the butt end to form the hook you would be even closer to the meaning of "ενηγκυλίζετο"
As a child we had a toy called lawn darts. They are banned now. We would tie a loop of string to the end of the dart and just release the string with the dart.
I'm not sure if you have seen some other sources, but I believe that the Y-sling could be making reference to a staff-sling, rather than a hand sling. There was one Roman account which, I have unfortunately forgotten, which made reference to a three stringed staff sling for launching leaden projectiles.
Great video! I do wonder why this weapon was developed? Was there some advantage of this dart over either lead sling bullets or normal arrows fired from bows?
Thanks! All kinds of contraptions were developed in the ancient world. Was this useful? I don't know, it's a good combo of momentum (sling) and a dart's fine point for penetration.
I would think that it's probably a matter of being able to use what resources are available. For example, if an area didn't have good materials for bows however had lots of fibrous plants around that made good cordage, then perhaps it's probable that sling weapons would be the prevalent option. (* im not stating fact, just a suggestion).
I shoot/ the peg and loop system and found that if u drill 🕳️ in back of dart & put in single feather, cut square, bout 2 inches will increase your range,aim& power! I even shoot 3. 4,6 foot darts 100. Paces/ a good wind at my back with tween 6,12 paces twee darts good shooting was impressive
What is your estimate of the range and effective range this device would have in ancient battles with various degrees of training and compared to other forms of projectiles like lead bullets?
I'd say 100m effective range . But I want to check it's max range at which I'll be able to see if there's too much drag so that it would be better suited for 50m armor piercing rather than long range volleys. I definitely believe lead will outrange it .
Yes if you adjust the grip accordingly. If the release cord is not shortened then to throw kestros you adjust the grip on the release and rocks normally , if the release is shortened then to throw rocks you have to wrap the retention on your fingers to make it shorter.
Good job! You know what your talking about and obviously have plenty of experience with a Sling. My question is how well you think this design would work in a hunting application
from what I hear stones work well for hunting. this is bigger than a stone, might tangle with vegetation, and doesn't work at close distances, it needs some space to stabilize. but it might work better than a stone for big game. I don't really know. It's main use is very similar to that of a plumbata.
@@Acroballistics thank you for your reply duly not your advice you seem to know what you're talking about when it comes to swing I've been using a shepherd's sling for about 2 years and hunting for last 8 months it's great for birds and small game but I would like to do something that I could do predatory hunting of coyotes(like a wolf or fox )
It wouldn't be released as cleanly due to friction but I expect it would work. Timpa used a string through a keychain ring if I remember correct. Another option can be a string tied on the dart , the disadvantages would be either less power because of weak grip on a thin string or higher drag due to thicker string and the possibility of it thrown back by the enemy.
The way that read / how I heard it was total object was 2 cubits and the tip was two palms. If you secure the wooden blades better and use a short 3 lace sling and run them through the void in the blades. Then you won’t get the twisting in the laces of the string, and interestingly enough another slinger I found made a similar object to that in one of his videos, I discovered after I had this image from your discription
This is so great! You should reach out to @toddsworkshop @skallagrim @scholagladatoria @lindybeige and see if they want to collab on this as you're doing great work and they could bring it to more people!
Qué maravilla de prueba. Siempre pensé que empleaban este arma lanzándola hacia el cielo y dejando que cayera en parábola (como las "espinas de marte" que los romanos lanzaban con las manos).
Your reading of the translation is extremely off. The Livy description of the dart never described a notch. It describes quite clearly, a dart 2 cubits long i.e. 36 inches long in total Composed of three parts: -The point (likely 15-18inches) -The tube (same length as point) -The wing shaft (a span length, i.e. 9 inches long) The wing shaft, with *short* wooden wings affixed to its midpoint was jammed into the rear of the tube. The point was likely composed of a wooden shaft and metal tip jammed into the front of the tube. This dart, with no additionallt added notches was probably balanced on a simple loop and slung like any other projectile. The ridges made at the connections of the point and wingshaft to the tube were the most practical points of contact between the dart and the loop. The uneveness of the thongs is an irrelevent feature common to many standard sheperds sling designs. It's purpose merely securing the tension thong. The only real difference between kestros sling and sheperds sling is that the loop would have to be big enough to house house the incredibly long dart. (14-20inches if pulled taut) The ancient pattern was neither an efficient weapon nor a good design as evidenced by it's very brief and novel during perseus use and apparently total discontinuation thereafter. Not to say that the concept is generally bad. The modern versions of the kestros, which can potentually launch much shorter darts over huge distances represents a monumental, if untimely, improvement on the original design. I suspect that if ancient peoples had thought to use the modern versions of the weapon, it would have become more common than the bow and arrow simply because of how much easier they would be to make while still achieving the same results.
read the description and the sources: quote " a The English translation is faulty here; my thanks to George M. Hollenback for pointing it out. The Greek has - my emphasis - τὸ δὲ βέλος τοιοῦτον· διπάλαιστον ἦν, ἴσον ἔχον τὸν αὐλίσκον τῇ προβολῇ. τούτῳ ξύλον ἐνήρμοστο τῷ μὲν μήκει σπιθαμιαῖον, τῷ δὲ πάχει δακτυλιαίαν ἔχον τῆν διάμετρον. where διπάλαιστον is two palms (about 15 cm), not two cubits (about 90 cm). The error is confirmed by the Suda Online, Adler # Κ1434. " link penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Polybius/27*.html#note:mistranslation.dipalaistos
i think this guy has solved the problem of how this weapon was used. this is the only example i have seen that appears to have practical application.
I agree 100%
I've been curious about this weapon for many years, it is excellent to see this demonstration.
certainly wouldn't want to get hit by one of these, just imagine hundreds of them being launched
I'm so glad to see someone keeping this obscure information alive. You're doing us a great service
I have been watching sling videos for a couple of days. Now, l have seen several on this particular type. What you have come up with seems to be the most accurate and sesible design. As much as anything, the simplicity and ease of reloading-very crucial in a war fighting situation- puts your design well ahead of others that have rather complicated mechanics and loading methods. Well done.
Ingenious! This definitely makes sense and it would have been so easy for them to adapt their original slings for dart throwing. They might not even have adapted them and just held then further down the release cord. This is fantastic and great research on your part. I knew what I'm doing once the weather improves... -Kick
"They might not even have adapted them and just held then further down the release cord." yes I tried that at first I didn't want to cut a sling. but by cutting and having a knot will be easier and faster to operate. All the forces are applied to the release cord so you'll need a better grip on it when compared to slinging stones and the forces between the cords is balanced. Good luck with the weather.
Slings are so light and easy to store that it's not an issue to have more than one on you. I've heard slingers would have long and short slings depending on the situation, and so could easily have these aswell. It would make sense considering they'd likely have less darts than stones/pellets.
As a speaker of modern Greek (with decent command of ancient Greek) I agree with your linguistic interpretation on the text of Polybius. I should like to note that if you joined a piece of timber in the butt end to form the hook you would be even closer to the meaning of "ενηγκυλίζετο"
@4:58 The release up close.
Ingenious recreation!
This is amazing, I never would have guessed these could be used in a sling.
I love how there were quite a lot of bizarre weapons in ancient times. Launching darts with a sling seems very strange, but apparently it was done.
This is badasst bro! Thanks for taking the time to really explain that release because it took a bit to understand what was going on there.
As a child we had a toy called lawn darts. They are banned now. We would tie a loop of string to the end of the dart and just release the string with the dart.
Excellent video! Thank you for sharing all the research on RUclips. Best regards.
Excellent video.
Great video, it seems the easiest way to do it. Very easy and fast to load. I think if you tried it with a staffsling you would get more distance.
I'm not sure if you have seen some other sources, but I believe that the Y-sling could be making reference to a staff-sling, rather than a hand sling.
There was one Roman account which, I have unfortunately forgotten, which made reference to a three stringed staff sling for launching leaden projectiles.
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing.
Great video! I do wonder why this weapon was developed? Was there some advantage of this dart over either lead sling bullets or normal arrows fired from bows?
Thanks! All kinds of contraptions were developed in the ancient world. Was this useful? I don't know, it's a good combo of momentum (sling) and a dart's fine point for penetration.
I would think that it's probably a matter of being able to use what resources are available. For example, if an area didn't have good materials for bows however had lots of fibrous plants around that made good cordage, then perhaps it's probable that sling weapons would be the prevalent option. (* im not stating fact, just a suggestion).
thank you for this great research you did here!
I've wondered if perhaps the darts would be more effective weighted like a plumbata?
I shoot/ the peg and loop system and found that if u drill 🕳️ in back of dart & put in single feather, cut square, bout 2 inches will increase your range,aim& power! I even shoot 3. 4,6 foot darts 100. Paces/ a good wind at my back with tween 6,12 paces twee darts good shooting was impressive
What is your estimate of the range and effective range this device would have in ancient battles with various degrees of training and compared to other forms of projectiles like lead bullets?
I'd say 100m effective range . But I want to check it's max range at which I'll be able to see if there's too much drag so that it would be better suited for 50m armor piercing rather than long range volleys. I definitely believe lead will outrange it .
The release does not really seem as powerful as a sling bullet. Something about the system seems off for combat.
My thoughts exactly.
Ingenious quite amazing 👏
Ради эксперемента, я думаю, стоило бы сделать хоть один дротик с оперением из подходящего материала.
Can you still shot rocks with the same sling?
Yes if you adjust the grip accordingly. If the release cord is not shortened then to throw kestros you adjust the grip on the release and rocks normally , if the release is shortened then to throw rocks you have to wrap the retention on your fingers to make it shorter.
@@Acroballistics
Wow thanks
Do you think this kind of sling is superior to the Egyptian sling?
it's easier to make and lighter but an egyptian style sling will be easier to use with spherical ammo or small ammo
Good job! You know what your talking about and obviously have plenty of experience with a Sling.
My question is how well you think this design would work in a hunting application
from what I hear stones work well for hunting. this is bigger than a stone, might tangle with vegetation, and doesn't work at close distances, it needs some space to stabilize. but it might work better than a stone for big game. I don't really know. It's main use is very similar to that of a plumbata.
@@Acroballistics thank you for your reply duly not your advice you seem to know what you're talking about when it comes to swing I've been using a shepherd's sling for about 2 years and hunting for last 8 months it's great for birds and small game but I would like to do something that I could do predatory hunting of coyotes(like a wolf or fox )
If it's such s simple hook design do you even need the pouch? Would simple string work??
It wouldn't be released as cleanly due to friction but I expect it would work. Timpa used a string through a keychain ring if I remember correct. Another option can be a string tied on the dart , the disadvantages would be either less power because of weak grip on a thin string or higher drag due to thicker string and the possibility of it thrown back by the enemy.
@@Acroballistics those keychain connector weight darts work pretty well. Saw some footage of Hong Kong protesters using them during the PolyU siege
Very cool
This is incredible, I love going to the ancient texts!
Incredible
from my understanding a cubit is roughly 18 inches long. try 3ft long "darts" and a shorter sling.
the corrected translation is palms not cubits
The way that read / how I heard it was total object was 2 cubits and the tip was two palms. If you secure the wooden blades better and use a short 3 lace sling and run them through the void in the blades. Then you won’t get the twisting in the laces of the string, and interestingly enough another slinger I found made a similar object to that in one of his videos, I discovered after I had this image from your discription
This is so great! You should reach out to @toddsworkshop @skallagrim @scholagladatoria @lindybeige and see if they want to collab on this as you're doing great work and they could bring it to more people!
very good movie :)
Qué maravilla de prueba. Siempre pensé que empleaban este arma lanzándola hacia el cielo y dejando que cayera en parábola (como las "espinas de marte" que los romanos lanzaban con las manos).
Good solution.
nice
my man really just revived a weapon that no one knew how it worked and got 6k views ):
Your reading of the translation is extremely off.
The Livy description of the dart never described a notch.
It describes quite clearly, a dart 2 cubits long i.e. 36 inches long in total
Composed of three parts:
-The point (likely 15-18inches)
-The tube (same length as point)
-The wing shaft (a span length, i.e. 9 inches long)
The wing shaft, with *short* wooden wings affixed to its midpoint was jammed into the rear of the tube.
The point was likely composed of a wooden shaft and metal tip jammed into the front of the tube.
This dart, with no additionallt added notches was probably balanced on a simple loop and slung like any other projectile.
The ridges made at the connections of the point and wingshaft to the tube were the most practical points of contact between the dart and the loop.
The uneveness of the thongs is an irrelevent feature common to many standard sheperds sling designs. It's purpose merely securing the tension thong.
The only real difference between kestros sling and sheperds sling is that the loop would have to be big enough to house house the incredibly long dart. (14-20inches if pulled taut)
The ancient pattern was neither an efficient weapon nor a good design as evidenced by it's very brief and novel during perseus use and apparently total discontinuation thereafter.
Not to say that the concept is generally bad. The modern versions of the kestros, which can potentually launch much shorter darts over huge distances represents a monumental, if untimely, improvement on the original design.
I suspect that if ancient peoples had thought to use the modern versions of the weapon, it would have become more common than the bow and arrow simply because of how much easier they would be to make while still achieving the same results.
read the description and the sources: quote " a The English translation is faulty here; my thanks to George M. Hollenback for pointing it out. The Greek has - my emphasis -
τὸ δὲ βέλος τοιοῦτον· διπάλαιστον ἦν, ἴσον ἔχον τὸν αὐλίσκον τῇ προβολῇ. τούτῳ ξύλον ἐνήρμοστο τῷ μὲν μήκει σπιθαμιαῖον, τῷ δὲ πάχει δακτυλιαίαν ἔχον τῆν διάμετρον.
where διπάλαιστον is two palms (about 15 cm), not two cubits (about 90 cm). The error is confirmed by the Suda Online, Adler # Κ1434. " link penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Polybius/27*.html#note:mistranslation.dipalaistos
@@Acroballistics thank you for the clarification.
👍👍👍
Σήμερα κατάφερα νὰ δῶ γιὰ πρώτη φορὰ τὸ βίντεο αὺτὸ. Ἐξαιρετικὴ δουλειὰ. Εἶναι ὅντως πολὺ κοντὰ στὴν μετάφραση ποὺ ἔχεις γιὰ τὸ ὅπλο αὐτὸ. Συγχαρητήρια. Θὰ δοκιμὰσω καὶ ἐγὼ στὶς δικές μου σφεντόντες.
Thank you for this comprehensive research.Just a Greek could do this.