I've also been trying different ways to launch a kestros/plumbata with a sling and so far it's very difficult/impossible to get them to have a perfect release (without any wobble) because of the imp that is angular momentum...
Toggle release seems to work better. It secures nicely to the 50mm or so of an arroe behind the fletchings. I'm actually working on a project based on your video with your modified plumbata
i really enjoy these videos of yours on the kestros and think your design is by far the most likely. that said id love to see you try something not at all historical and use this with a staff sling. it would be interresting if the darts perform as well or better than using it without a staff. maybe a range comparison in a future video?
This video and a few others have inspired me to try my own kestros project. The toggle release style sling reallly makes for a nice release. I think the dart needs a lot more weight towards the tip to really engage the fletchings.
Based on what i've read, the sling used had uneven sized lengths and had multiple contact points. Likely the cause for added stability. I've never heard of this before but would like to note the greek of it is literally Dart. κέστρος. So studying how regular darts fly would likely reveal a hint
ruclips.net/video/oF6M82Qi81c/видео.html I have made a video on the design of the sling. the sling I use is uneven. there is no mention of contact points in the text, where does it say that? βελος or σαϊτα is the Greek for arrow/dart. κεστρος is like a nickname for a dart.
I haven't used this weapon yet but based on my knowledge of other projectile weapons I would suggest that you put the fins as far back as you can,make them long and tall and maybe use feathers instead of wood and metal. Regarding the throwing of the dart I think throwing it like a trebuchet throes it's load would be good for its stabilization. Try to find another place to test them, the stone will damage that darts
According to the description wood was used. I'd expect wooden fins to perform better than feather because they are stiffer. I wish we had some flat grasslands around but that's the best I got for now. Thanks for watching!
Interesting test, I have wondered about seeing a plumbata design shot with the lead loaded in as you would a glande, but I hadn't considered that for flight stabilization you really want decent FOC front of centre balance. Definitely test some with feather fletching I can see that minimum fin area would be best to get good windup speed, wonder if it possible to use just two inline with sling angles to try minimise drag. Guess they may never have caught on everywhere if you could still outrange them with a simple lead bullet.
Im currently working on my own version that's basically a glorified crossbow bolt. The principle of the plumbata with the high foc i really do think is the way to go. It seems to engage the fletchings much quicker.
I'm not sure if you're trying to do a historical reproduction or just find something that works for you but I would suggest isolating your experiment to one size dart with multiple style fins. You can then take those results and compare them to different size darts. Although I would like to see and hear your opinion on some darts that were fetched much like arrows or atlatal darts
I want to do both, find something that works for me and make a possible historical reproduction. I don't think they will be too far apart I bet they went for minimum cost and max results. My tests are determined mainly by availability of materials and tools. The problem is that I have modern tools and no idea what they had available. Recently I made a tool they might have used which I think will make much better fins. By fletched like arrows you mean feathers instead of wood?
@@Acroballistics yes I am referring to feathers but there are a few different methods used. You could also use some strips animal skin with fur. My suggestions for making something that works for you is don't be afraid to think or step outside the box experiment with everything you can adapt improvise and overcome will always help. My suggestions for making a historical reproduction is a lot of homework and a lot of patience in my opinion whether using modern tools or traditional tools doesn't matter however when we get into things like the dart tips those probably originally would have been made from wrought iron or iron ore which is hard to get nowadays so you'd probably have to use mild Steel
Pretty impressive,I shoot 4 to 6 foot arrows / 1,2 pound clay ball heads,/ good wind 100 paces. Now traditional fletching GAArBAGE!!!!! Yr not throwing hard enough 4 spin to matter It only slows dart. I found by cutting full feather bout 2 inches square backed & placed in hole centered in back of dart Increases range. I use the loop& single pin method / my sling. Just be careful with the first throw as u may really hurt yer shoulder. But once u get the Rite momentum swing u will be surprised u will double yer range I bet good shooting
A weapon created to fight Rome during the Macedonian wars, there are still many doubts about its historical design, perhaps one day the mystery will be revealed...
even as it is, it reaches 90m and I had more success with it than any other short javelin/dart. whatever the mystery of the design is, the greater mystery is why they stopped using them
@@Acroballistics Try the range with a long slingshot, I don't think you can reach the distances obtained with lead projectiles, or maybe if, seeing David Engvall's record, everything is possible... Without a doubt, the Kestrosphendone was invented for a reason, the The Romans themselves considered it a fearsome weapon, I don't know what windows it would have for a slingshot that shoots lead, but without a doubt it had some advantage...
I honestly think it probably has something to do with the durability. Kestros projectiles seem to me to be much more fragile than javelins... and the fins, very important for making the projectiles stable in flight... seem to be easily damaged on impact, which reduces your chance of recovering your ammunition after a battle. Even if the projectile survives, it will likely need to have the fins replaced. It cannot be thrown 'effectively' again if it's fins are damaged. Otherwise, for the niche role in which the Kestros was probably made... it seems to have performed effectively. Though unfortunately, only existed during the Macedonian wars.
@@thejackinati2759 The idea was that the darts, once launched could not easily be picked up and used by your enemy. Same as the design of the pilum, or Roman spear.
100% content.
0% shit.
I love this format.
Could you make a video detailing the sling?
I've also been trying different ways to launch a kestros/plumbata with a sling and so far it's very difficult/impossible to get them to have a perfect release (without any wobble) because of the imp that is angular momentum...
whats the velocity roughly and mass?
Toggle release seems to work better. It secures nicely to the 50mm or so of an arroe behind the fletchings. I'm actually working on a project based on your video with your modified plumbata
i really enjoy these videos of yours on the kestros and think your design is by far the most likely. that said id love to see you try something not at all historical and use this with a staff sling. it would be interresting if the darts perform as well or better than using it without a staff. maybe a range comparison in a future video?
Great stuff! They stabilised really well on the long shots. Now it's making me want to try out the kestros again :D
Wow great work, I love kestros. I hope make more videos of kestros and jai alai
This video and a few others have inspired me to try my own kestros project. The toggle release style sling reallly makes for a nice release. I think the dart needs a lot more weight towards the tip to really engage the fletchings.
Your content is always top tier.
I'd like to see this done with a staff sling.
Actually... these look really easy to make. Maybe I'll just try that out myself.
Awesome dart slinging bro!
Based on what i've read, the sling used had uneven sized lengths and had multiple contact points. Likely the cause for added stability. I've never heard of this before but would like to note the greek of it is literally Dart. κέστρος. So studying how regular darts fly would likely reveal a hint
ruclips.net/video/oF6M82Qi81c/видео.html I have made a video on the design of the sling. the sling I use is uneven. there is no mention of contact points in the text, where does it say that? βελος or σαϊτα is the Greek for arrow/dart. κεστρος is like a nickname for a dart.
I haven't used this weapon yet but based on my knowledge of other projectile weapons I would suggest that you put the fins as far back as you can,make them long and tall and maybe use feathers instead of wood and metal. Regarding the throwing of the dart I think throwing it like a trebuchet throes it's load would be good for its stabilization. Try to find another place to test them, the stone will damage that darts
According to the description wood was used. I'd expect wooden fins to perform better than feather because they are stiffer. I wish we had some flat grasslands around but that's the best I got for now. Thanks for watching!
This video ligns up with the javelin video.
Center of gravity.
Try singing cotton buds!!
Interesting test, I have wondered about seeing a plumbata design shot with the lead loaded in as you would a glande, but I hadn't considered that for flight stabilization you really want decent FOC front of centre balance.
Definitely test some with feather fletching I can see that minimum fin area would be best to get good windup speed, wonder if it possible to use just two inline with sling angles to try minimise drag.
Guess they may never have caught on everywhere if you could still outrange them with a simple lead bullet.
Im currently working on my own version that's basically a glorified crossbow bolt. The principle of the plumbata with the high foc i really do think is the way to go. It seems to engage the fletchings much quicker.
good one
Would it be possible to sling kestros darts in volleys? (3 or more at a single swing?)
yes but with lower power
Is this a regular sling?
it can be a regular sling gripped differently or a regular sling that has been cut to a shorter release cord than retention cord
I'm not sure if you're trying to do a historical reproduction or just find something that works for you but I would suggest isolating your experiment to one size dart with multiple style fins. You can then take those results and compare them to different size darts. Although I would like to see and hear your opinion on some darts that were fetched much like arrows or atlatal darts
I want to do both, find something that works for me and make a possible historical reproduction. I don't think they will be too far apart I bet they went for minimum cost and max results. My tests are determined mainly by availability of materials and tools. The problem is that I have modern tools and no idea what they had available. Recently I made a tool they might have used which I think will make much better fins. By fletched like arrows you mean feathers instead of wood?
@@Acroballistics You could try leather fins. Not as flimsy as feathers but probably less likely to be damaged as wood.
if wood in the next design fails I might try some leather.
@@Acroballistics yes I am referring to feathers but there are a few different methods used. You could also use some strips animal skin with fur. My suggestions for making something that works for you is don't be afraid to think or step outside the box experiment with everything you can adapt improvise and overcome will always help. My suggestions for making a historical reproduction is a lot of homework and a lot of patience in my opinion whether using modern tools or traditional tools doesn't matter however when we get into things like the dart tips those probably originally would have been made from wrought iron or iron ore which is hard to get nowadays so you'd probably have to use mild Steel
Lawn darts are still cool in greece i guess
Вполне неплохо ,с таким можно и на крупного зверя идти.
Pretty impressive,I shoot 4 to 6 foot arrows / 1,2 pound clay ball heads,/ good wind 100 paces. Now traditional fletching GAArBAGE!!!!! Yr not throwing hard enough 4 spin to matter It only slows dart. I found by cutting full feather bout 2 inches square backed & placed in hole centered in back of dart Increases range. I use the loop& single pin method / my sling. Just be careful with the first throw as u may really hurt yer shoulder. But once u get the Rite momentum swing u will be surprised u will double yer range I bet good shooting
A weapon created to fight Rome during the Macedonian wars, there are still many doubts about its historical design, perhaps one day the mystery will be revealed...
even as it is, it reaches 90m and I had more success with it than any other short javelin/dart. whatever the mystery of the design is, the greater mystery is why they stopped using them
@@Acroballistics Try the range with a long slingshot, I don't think you can reach the distances obtained with lead projectiles, or maybe if, seeing David Engvall's record, everything is possible... Without a doubt, the Kestrosphendone was invented for a reason, the The Romans themselves considered it a fearsome weapon, I don't know what windows it would have for a slingshot that shoots lead, but without a doubt it had some advantage...
I honestly think it probably has something to do with the durability. Kestros projectiles seem to me to be much more fragile than javelins... and the fins, very important for making the projectiles stable in flight... seem to be easily damaged on impact, which reduces your chance of recovering your ammunition after a battle. Even if the projectile survives, it will likely need to have the fins replaced. It cannot be thrown 'effectively' again if it's fins are damaged.
Otherwise, for the niche role in which the Kestros was probably made... it seems to have performed effectively. Though unfortunately, only existed during the Macedonian wars.
Giant slaying weapon.
@@thejackinati2759 The idea was that the darts, once launched could not easily be picked up and used by your enemy. Same as the design of the pilum, or Roman spear.