Michael Foot & Enoch Powell - 10-06-1973
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2012
- Discussion chaired by Robin Day: the first of a series of programmes on Radio 4 named 'Politics in the 70s'.
Enoch Powell, the now infamous right-wing pro-capitalist Conservative MP, and Michael Foot, the Marxist libertarian socialist Labour MP, later to be Labour leader, engage in a fairly detailed discussion of issues from parliament, the European market and immigration to left/right economics and democracy.
What a privilege to hear these giants of British politics,debating issues with measured,reasoned and calm arguments,not shouting over each other and seeking hand claps from a Question Time audience.
How I agree Lech and how prescient both Foot's comments on multinationals and the European Union and Powell's forecasts on immigration.
The thing that strikes me is the courtesy of the two participants towards one another. No rants; no interruptions; just an incisive discussion. And an interviewer who allows his guests speak and express themselves.
David Miller Question Time was also far superior when Robin Day was the Host. That Dimbumblebee character is so biased the programme is now so predictable it’s totally boring. Ah! The good old days!
@@biggie12bore haven't watched that comedy--or their news ? etc etc , for 4 years.
What is remarkable about this programme is how the debate and discussion by these politicians of such extreme wings of their parties is conducted in a civil and respectful way. The notorious Robin Day just let Foot and Powell get on with the discussion and was able to move them on at the appropriate moment. What this programme clearly shows is the poor calibre of MP's and PM's that have entered Parliament post Thatcher era.
Indeed. Vapid lawyers, trying painfully to 'win' every exchange
Lovely just hearing their voices, command of English and intellectual cogency
OMG! Reasoned, calm arguments on profound issues. Both Foot and Powell at their best, as brought out by an intelligent and scrupulous moderator (Robin Day). Why, oh why, can we not experience this form of courtesy, deference, and civility today? These debates may not solve anything, but they bestow a sense, at the very least, that MPs respect and honour the sincerely held views of those with which they disagree.
It's rightly called dumbing down, and was given a massive boost by evil traitor BLIAR
Very true. I simply don't understand why political journalists can't just allow the politician to answer their questions without interruption. I don't know if it's ego or insecurity on their part, probably both.
Powell was a great scholar and was a true Conservative Leader not like the pretenders in power we have now
Powell was an openly racist provocateur who attempted to mobilizer British xenophobia and has become an idol for the far right
@@jesseroberts637 Look at the little Yorkshire town called Savile in the UK now 90% Asian is that your dream?
@@jesseroberts637 Charlie Hebdo.
@@mrcockney-nutjob3832 what's wrong with that?
Absolutely spot on
Wondrous gentleman putting home nations first and foremost
Very interesting, I love hearing these old debates, featuring the political titans of a past age!
What a change it is to hear Politicians talking about what they believe as opposed to avoiding committing to anything in case it may be used against you.
Two educated political thinkers of real weight. Their like doesn't exist among the present crop of placeholders and pole-climbers.
True, but did they have to fight so hard to make sure, no listener missunderstood the 'unity' between them. No first names here. Talk about , oh we didn't arrive in the same taxi, we don't like each other that much. Oh god, not another agreement between us. this is not good for our images.
There not typical politician who stands for nothing and wants to stand for everyone. They say it way things are . Today we are been criminalised for saying the truth
Regardless of ones political standpoint it is an absolute pleasure to listen to both of these great intellects.
Michael Foot held to the mythology of democratic socialism. That is, that popular political institutions could withstand being overwhelmed by state bureaucracy. On the obverse side, Enoch Powell held to the mythology that massive corporate power formations could somehow be restrained by market forces. In fact, what was developing, and has now come to fruition, is a conglomeration of state bureaucracy and corporate hegemony. Both men did have an inkling that popular government would be threatened by adherence to international, non democratic institutions. I think they both woefully underestimated these international forces, the extent of the globalist economy, and it's power wasn't on their radar screens.
What a shame that we can no longer debate like this. Two complete opposites respectfully putting their points across without hatred.
Such great parlimentarians
Jeremy Corbyn is Michael Foot’s alter ego but without the intellectual weight
Just fantastic. My two favorite post-War parliamentarians.
Thank you for posting, this is a gem.
Between Enoc Powell and Michael Foot. I think it was when both men were in later life. It was fascinating and showed how opposing political opinions don’t preclude great personal friendship.
Would be great if someone could find it.
Enoch Powell was a realist, not a racist, and he saw the problems the mixed races would present our old English Country, and he was right in every way.
He predicted 5-7 million immigrants by 2000. There are 10 million now.
He really wasn't and in the end he admitted it. Ask his daughter.
@@brianwarden7250what do you mean by that?
And without them there would be no one to run the NHS, social care or deliver your curry. Without them the UK is just Little England and a hell of a lot poorer. @@johnmulligan455
The 1970s was a time when some of the nation's prominent 'brains trust' were the leading politicians of the period. Powell, Foot, Benn, Heath, Jenkins, Wilson and other would wipe the floor with any modern politicians.
Two gentlemen and true advocates for their respective ideological views. I happen to despise what Mr. Foot stands for but can nevertheless respect his earnest advocacy for the policies he deeply believed in, meanwhile Mr. Powell was the last scholar politician and wise man of British politics. It is unfortunate that Mr. Foot is mostly known as the loser of 1983 while Mr. Powell is slandered as a racialist by those ignorant of his enormous contributions.
Powell was a racist, scholar or not.
I listened to this in December 2018. In December 2018 we have just voted to leave the common market or as it is now known the EEC.The issues in this recording are exactly the same now in 2018. I want to have sovereignty over my country. An independent Scotland is appealing. The time for an independent Scotland is now. Now that I am convinced I look forward to being able to to decide what kind country I want to live in. To be able to decide what happens in my future and the future of my children’s country has never been more appealing having benefit of knowledge of the past.
Campbell Milne How is independent being part of the EU ? Nicola Sturgen wants Scotland to break with the UK but stay in the EU , independent NOT. Ask the Irish how that’s worked out for them ???
Enoch Powell would of been the best prime minister. This country never had. Told it as was great man
The best PM Britain never had was John Smith. Powell wasn't taken before his time. He was just too extreme to lead a political party.
Rt Hon Enoch Powell was a legend. What a great loss to UK
Lloyd Gittens you are the racists. You are only making that comment because he is white. It’s racists like you he was trying to protect us from.
A great loss to England RIP Sir Enoch Powell ur sorely missed
@@janetcalderwood6385 It is such a shame that he was not recognised for his true intelligence and honest politics. Too many do gooders were in politics and got rid of him, sad day for politics
@@janetcalderwood6385 He was Welsh, but 'Yes', a great loss to England.
@@itstime6495 I know he was Welsh bt sayin he was a great loss to us in UK what a great man I ad 5 daughters bt always wanted a son wud av called him Enoch with pride
'Segregated communities' that trend away from assimilation. Spot on, Michael Foot is conveniently, ignoring that Irish people are ethnically and culturally one and the same. He cannot extend that to Commonwealth migration larger numbers, it's wholly, impossible.
Wait, was this similarity in ethnic and cultural characteristics before or after the British government felt it appropriate to systematically massacre peaceful Irish civilians once the First World War had finished with their black and tan and Ulster death squads? Before you can start with that bullshit, you actually have to treat the Irish people like human beings but I doubt you will. People like you will always find a reason to dislike someone, and the way the Ulsters treated their white brothers in Northern Ireland during the 1920s only shows that further.
@@SempiternalScientist What a load of codswallop. Home Rule had finally been passed and was suspended during the war; idiot hotheads rebelled in 1916 and consequently thousands of lives were lost in the ensuing rebellion and the Irish Civil War. And now there’s an “independent” Ireland that is a morally corrupt vassal of the EU. That worked out really well.
Foot was well known as being anti-communism. See a video called "Labours Old Romantic" elsewhere on you tube.
Both of these politicians were essentially of the same temperament which is why they got on. They were both romantics, with a highly romanticised view of the world, which in many respects left them detached from reality. Both of their political careers ended up disastrously as a result.
Such a mind inspiring debate of men of opposite ideologies of their time, both succinctly arguing their respective points. Respect to both contributors and to the host (forgive me I do not remember his name) for not being an activist as to lead the argument in favour of one side in particular. Our modern age MPs & journos should learn from this exchange. My utmost appreciation to you for posting this 👍🏽
God bless Enoch prophet Powell.weve a brexit now.enoch could predict 50years ahead
Robin Day, no nonsense, how we need someone like him now.
I never could agree with the views of Michael Foot,but he was a true interlect and politician. Gone but not forgotten both.
Powell seems to be very calm and im sure if he was alive he would have joined ukip
Baji Scipio Dārayav Aurelius Julian Venizelos Nalwa he would off been UKIP not joined it lol!
@Lloyd Gittens flawless arguments and evidence
Lloyd Gittens show me one thing he said that’s racist?
He was a libertarian socialist which is in the tradition of Noam Chomsky, Antoine Pannekoek among others. Far from Mao.
Chomsky is an anarchist/sydicalist. These are loose terms. Foot was a Libertarian and a Socialist dedicated to Parliamentary politics.
As of 2017 ( today another terrorist bomb killing 19 at a pop concert) Powell's views and predictions on immigration, particularly on non-assimilation and as cause for disastrous societal conflict has clearly been borne out. Foot's view on immigration now seems naive and comes across as wishful thinking.
As of 2020 (yesterday a man from Sudan decided to go on a stabbing rampage in Birmingham). This also follows a stabbing in Glasgow and the murder of 3 gay men in Redding this year. Honestly the indigenous British never wanted mass immigration and we don’t like the consequences of it.
Magic Dirt theory is holy scripture among the globalists of the West.
Nope. Powell was completely wrong. People now get a long with each other better than they ever have in British history.
50-60 years ago if you told someone that the public would elect a catholic (like Boris Johnson) as PM they would have scoffed at you. Nowadays, it is totally plausible that the UK will have a non white PM seeing as how diverse the Tory cabinet is. We've come a long way.
@@PibrochPonder Yes and I'm sure the people from lands which were colonised never wanted that either. Nor the mass murder, mass rape and mass theft which came with it.
I would give an arm and a leg to hear the third program in this series featuring the roundtable discussion about the Labour Party. Anyone know where it can be found?
I only have one other episode in the series; a discussion of the state of the Conservative Party at the time, which makes for a less germane discussion than this one, but I suppose it still might be of interest to some - I'll get it up soon.
Foot's point that politicians shouldn't seek the popular will of the people but preach their own manifesto is just why Labour have been in opposition for so long.
Robin Day was an excellent chairperson
Magnificent
Michael foot was a legend
Free speech and respect
Someone once said the most important thing about politics isn't what's decided, but how it's done. Done like this, politics could be a force for good. Can we have this back, please?
There's actually a video on RUclips - "Labour's Old Romantic" (Pt One) - in which he refers to himself as such. I can't link it, but it's on my suggested videos list on the right hand side of the screen. From 3:00.
The accents are mind boggling. How did we descend from this to Tony Blair and Jamie Oliver’s faux estuary? The only people who talk like this now are King Charles and Jacob Rees-Moggs.
Thanks for this. I was hoping you might find time to upload the talk on the Conservative Party. It would be very interesting as it is just before Thatcher became leader.
I don’t know if it still exists but I saw a televised chat between
Both good speakers Foot and Powell and both damaged their own parties , Foot kept Labour out of government and Powell on flaming divisions in Ireland and across Britain
50 years ago The Scaffold were chanting A long, strong black pudding up Enoch Powell, probably written by the Bolshie Adrian Henry. How we laughed! I would love to hear a review today of the song by the excellent Roger McGough.
Brilliant MPS who talk sense
Wow that's history
Enoch was so right
True heavyweights because they had integrity.
I can think of few MPs (maybe Jacob Rees-Mogg) who could hold a candle to either of these men in this debate.
Mogg is most assuredly an intellectual pygmy compared to anyone other than the bovine fools who currently populate the House of Commons.
Summer 2018: Reesmo appraising his father's 50 years old comments against Enoch's RoB-speech.
Rees smug is not in the same class as these two giants
Jacob Rees-Mogg??? As someone once put it, "He is an idiot's idea of what an intelligent person is"
Apart from on immigration, I don't disagree with anything that Michael Foot said
Does anybody know where the rest of this series ( 'Politics in the 70s' ) of Radio programmes is ?
I find it hard to find anyone with any belief or conviction, nobody can have a respectful debate anymore
Just compare the interviewing style with that of Piers Morgan or of most contemporary interviewers (interrogators)
Nice x
15:30 onwards...lack of assimilation...development of segregated communities Enoch's crystal ball spot on again. Michael Foot coming out with the oft-quoted view that we are a nation of immigrants guff...although Foot does assume that assimilation is a must and likely to occur.
His use of Irish immigrants and their assimilation is flawed because they actually were far more similar to the local British population than many immigrants who turned up later...the Irish had same language, same skin colour, basically same God, very similar heritage and understanding of the rule of law and due process etc...more recent immigrants differ on almost all those points, hence their lack of assimilation.
Both were eloquent speakers.
Powell should have been a P.M. but Foot was the worst opposition leader ever.
Yes he was.
Does anybody know what the 'Common Market Bill's, frequently referred to, actually is?
I.e. when was it passed, what exactly did it do? Etc. Etc.
Id like to read it for myself
I presume they refer to the European Communities Act 1972. It was intentionally small and vague for parliamentary tactical reasons. Opponents of entry anticipated a 'Bill of a thousand clauses', instead they got twelve.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1972/68/contents/enacted
@@Compleme_Cunm Right. Thank you very much. I'll look into this. Thanks for providing a link too.
foot and enoch sharing the same platform? teach that to today's snowflake generation
I lol'd at the description. So Michael Foot was a libertarian and a socialist? How does that work out?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
Ben Pernezny
He still represented the Labour party though....
Socialists always try to force others into their system, however they reason.
No offense but every political party that gets in power tries to force others in their system, however they reason.
The point is that with an anti-government position there is no "system" to be forced into. If Michael Foot now is a libertarian, he wouldn't try to force people into anything.
Americans twisted the term libertarian.
Compare this to the "right and left" politicians of today...
17:35 Democrats in the US should take note...
He states himself as being a Libertarian Sociliast in that video. He only says he's "a bit more of a Marxist" as in I imagine he believed in nationalisation of industries i,e, some of the strains of marxism within socialism
Morgellons Leicester UK.
English politicians take themselves very seriously in public.
The minute ther3e are more than 2p
parties Parliament cn
annot act deciseivly, in Canada today too many parties with minority government leaves us all undone.
fantastic debate - brilliant on both sides - foot's argument are better thought through
Mr powell told the truth, unfortunately the govermnent is not based on the truth, so he had to go.
Compare these two with Johnson and Starmer or Dorries and Rayner
Was Foot not on the take from the USSR?
No, he wasn't.
On balance I would say not. Several of his generation obviously were.
I bet you English wished you had listened to Mr Powell now.
Well in which case I think there's a strong case to be made that he is misdescribing himself! He was addicted to parliamentary democracy, which is hardly orthodox Marxism. Foot in general was not a rigorous theoretician, although a great speechmaker and literary intellectual.
Michael Foot and Enoch Powell were both against the Eu and they were both right on this.
2 honest politicians and you don't have to agree with either's policies to think this.
But both honest politicians,a bit rare today.
Michael Foot changed his mind in later years and became a supporter.
IS DOCUMENT FCO 30/1048 UTUBE A LIE ?.
He said he was a 'bit more of a Marxist' as opposed to the extreme opposite, he didn't describe himself as a Marxist though, instead he described himself as a 'Libertarian Socialist'.
Illustrative of the degradation of the quality of political debate over the past 50 years.
My comment was deleted.
Have you been round doing a survey then?lol.
19:35 both voted for abolition capital punishment
He was nothing of the kind, and to suggest as much is a vile slander of one of the greatest parliamentarians of the century. (This is the case even if you mean it is some kind of bizarre compliment.)
Powell's tragedy was, he assumed everyone he spoke to was as intelligent as he was.
i never liked powell always liked foot. i would take both over the likes of liars like may, cameron or blair. at least these two men knew what they believed in.
Powel was note 'right wing' at all.
What would you say he was then?
@@Alfred5555 He was just a run of the mill guy that dared to question uncontrolled immigration and demonised for it, I now live in a third world shithole because of it.
What purpose was Ancient Greek?
It was a way into a highly advanced civilization which has been lost.
So you can read some of the most important texts in world history, which form the basics of society, culture, and politics as we know them in the West. Want a better reason?
πως ἐχεις;
Oh for a Tory leader like Powell, not the pathetic empty suits we have now
My memories of Michael Foot is that he was pompous, incompetent more concerned about proving his left wing views than the welfare of the people and the country, good riddance.
"Marxist libertarian socialist" That's hilarious nonsense.
I would have loved to see Mr. Powell's head on a stick.
why ?
Why not?
AsDflert, WOW, you are so articulate, you must be the resident intellectual in your trailer park.
Alexander, I realize you are probably one of those tea-sipping Nancy boys, but that doesn't give you the right to act so Butch.
byron -...typical statement of an uncivilized shyster. Of which immigrant background I wonder