We need to figure something out. For so many Americans to be unable to get medical care while we pay billions in tax dollars for wars we didn't agree to is insane
My mother had a kidney stone that almost killed her and she had to stay in the hospital for about a week. The bill was just over $100K. My family had to file for bankruptcy and it took about a decade to recover from it. One little health issue and you're financially devastated in this country.
legalize all drugs, get rid of doctor licensure, and turf ownership in hospitals. and abolish the FDA. Remove intellectual property laws. We will then have the least expensive care in the world.
I live in the UK and sure, the NHS has problems. The waiting list for routine procedures is insane, hence private healthcare is getting more popular. However, when you have a major family emergency you know the NHS will always be there and that’s just such a relief. The idea of getting a bill for an air ambulance and major emergency surgery sends a shiver down my spine.
Either way you are paying it with your taxes in the UK...if i am middle class i am paying 40% more in taxes (for me that is 15k in taxes annually), my last bill for a minor surgery was $700 (private insurance paid $30,000)...If i could choose between paying $700 once every 10 years or 15k every year i would choose the former. If you are poor and do not pay taxes, then obviously the UK system is better for you since someone else is shouldering the burden of taxes to allow you to have that surgery. If you are middle class, USA is the place to be.
@@sew_gal7340 Except the US system is extremely inefficient so the per person spend on healthcare is far higher. Also, your once every 10-year health emergency is likely to cost you an awful lot more than $700. I'm sure that private insurance wasn't cheap.
@@sew_gal7340 The UK Central Government funding for the National Health Service is about £180 billion there are about 67 million people in the UK. A proportion of our taxes called National Insurance goes towards the National Health Service so we pay about £2,800 per person per year for our healthcare for full coverage and no out-of-pocket expenses. I pay 20% tax and you don't pay tax on the first $14,850. As I explained above this includes healthcare full coverage for myself and my family. I have 3 neurological conditions, a congenital heart defect, and a thyroid condition. I had a pregnancy with complications and many other things along the way. I have had decades of treatment and have been under the care of many Specialists and Consultants including a Cardiologist, Cardiothoracic surgeon, Neurologist, Neurosurgeon, Pain Specialist, Audiologist, etc. Decades of MRI/MRA scans, CAT scans, echocardiograms, ECGs, 24-hour heart monitors, surgeries, procedures, doctor call-outs to my home day or night, ambulance call-outs, hospital stays, ER visits, urgent care clinics, physiotherapists, X-rays, broken bones, hearing tests, blood tests, ultrasound scans, antenatal care and postnatal care, and a whole lot more. Not to mention all the healthcare from my Primary Care Doctors, health checks, and annual screenings. The cost to me is £0. I pick up my repeat prescriptions from my Pharmacy every month and pay £0. Medications are free for many health conditions. Medications are also free to Children under 18, People aged 60 and over, People in education, Unemployed People, Pregnant women and Postpartum, and People who can't work due to illness and disability. For People who do pay for their medications, all prescriptions are £9.65 All forms of birth control are free as are all vaccinations. My parents get their free monthly repeat prescriptions delivered to their home every month for free. I had COVID last year and recovered but still had chest symptoms. I called my Primary Care Doctor in the morning who came out to see me that afternoon during his home visits. He examined me and prescribed a 5-day course of Antibiotics to treat a chest infection the cost to me was £0. My uncle had a heart attack this year and needed a valve replacement after he was discharged from the hospital Specialist Cardiac nurses visited his home daily to aid in his recovery. After being discharged from the hospital women and their newborn babies receive their first 2 weeks of postnatal care at home midwives do daily home visits. Unlike Americans who are restricted by their Network, I am fully covered I can choose and go to any Hospital, Consultant, Specialist, Surgeon, etc in the entire country. If I stopped working tomorrow absolutely nothing regarding my healthcare would change. In the rest of the developed world healthcare is a human right that people have the same access to regardless of whether someone is in employment or not.
The US isn't free market, and the above comment said it correct, government healthcare is expensive low quality prepaid care, the workers are lazier because they get a guaranteed paycheck and they aren't accountable to you the patient. Imagine paying tens of thousands a year into a system and when you finally need it, they treat you like a number, or just offer you medical assisted dying. Chronic Lyme disease will end the cronyism
@@sew_gal7340 in the US you also pay for healthcare with your taxes. It's even higher cost than in the UK if you look at the per capita health spending.
My sister was diagnosed with cancer in her early twenties, before her adult life really started. Now she’s in debt by tens of thousands of dollars. The cancer wasn’t her fault, and she wanted to live, so now she’s stuck with extreme debt for many years to come despite having health insurance.
Health Broker here, here are some tips: 1. Unless you are dying, go to Urgent Care. Stay away from Emergency rooms. Urgent care is 1/10 of the price and can offer most procedures up to broken bone. 2. If you are in the emergency room, always ask for the cash price, and then ask the billing office which charities are on file. Many charities will pay portions of medical bills to help those in need it's a huge help. 3.If you have insurance look into an HSA. It can be a huge help in case of emergencies. The health care system is a scam. Its catered to big business and even ACA plans are horrible. Look into private PPO's and HSA's.
@@AbcDino843 The last few sentences contradict half of your posted views on this page. The American health care system is a big business scam. A handful of degenerates are making boatloads of money off of your suffering.
My daughter had to be taken to the ER at 1 years old and cost me $60,000 out of pocket after insurance. I just now paid that off after 14 years. This is insane no one should have to deal with a life event like this and the stress of paying what they make in a year.
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I strongly advise you against self trading, it's really dangerous and had brought so many investors down, you need someone with the knowledge and strategies, someone dedicated to the crypto currency market business, and I will strongly recommend expert, Mrs Janet
Oh, you noticed that too? We have commercials for everything in the US, even drugs! It's like they're competing for the title of the catchiest side effects. It can be pretty entertaining, I must admit. But hey, at least we know all the potential solutions to our imaginary medical problems now!
I work at a health insurance company and let me tell you how depressing it is having to navigate this monster of a system even as a trained professional. I would happily give up my career so that the people I genuinely try to help wouldn’t have to deal with companies like mine anymore
I wish more people were like you. I have a friend who has been a programmer for an insurance company for like 4 or 5 years now. He has automated like 40% of jobs at premera and they are making shit tons more because he brought them into the 21st century. I always joke he works for the worst people ever and should take it all down because he could if he wanted to. That company is a monopoly but when your incentive is a lot of $$$ people will do anything sadly.
The problem is you though, if insurance employees stood up and picketed they would think about change but you make it possible for them to gouge citizens
Everybody I ever talk to in the insurance sounds as exacerbated, frustrated, and confused as I am when I call them for help. Insurance in America is a frucker clust.
@@Girtharmstrong69 That is not really true. They would outsource the jobs to some poor foreign country to do the same thing. And because those people are starving and need to work, they would gladly screw over Americans for a chance at a better life.
@@Girtharmstrong69 him and the workers aren’t the problem it’s the fact that it’s part of the law which he has no control over. Hence it’s the government fucking shit up once again and here you are blaming this guy who agrees with everyone that the system is shit
I had a 10 minute CT scan, saw a physicians assistant (never a doctor) for approx 15 minutes, bill was $8000 of which we had to pay $2400. Knowing this I honestly wouldn’t have gone to the ER, didn’t really want to but I feared I might have broken a hip after falling 12 ft off a ladder. Our medical system is a joke, people have creditors hounding them, often go bankrupt, and for decades we have acted like this is normal.
Medical bankruptcy is one of the most inflated claims in the US to generate hype for political purposes, while not having a very significant influence on bankruptcy filings. Bankruptcy filings are a result of multiple factors, and medical bills are nowhere near the top factor according to all the data I have studied. For starters, Elizabeth Warren’s cherry-picked study went to 2005, where there were only 1.45 million bankruptcies filed in the whole US including Chapter 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15. Only Ch 13 is for wage-earners, while Ch 15 represented the largest % of filings. The study expanded the parameters to include if people had missed 2 weeks of work due to sickness, had medical bills over $1000, and mortgaged their home to pay for bills. If bankruptcy filers fell into those categories, it was listed as "bankruptcy due to medical expenses", even if that wasn’t true. That’s less than half a percent of the overall population who even filed for bankruptcy. By adding those parameters, they fudged the data to indicate that 61% of the filers filed because of medical expenses. Another study in 2011 found that only 26% of Ch 13 filers said medical expenses played a role. Some studies said 57.1% while others said more people filed bankruptcy for medical expenses than overall bankruptcy filings, which is egregiously flawed. Not only can’t all Ch 13 filers be due to medical expenses, but Ch 13 can’t exceed all of the types of Chapter filings due to the dominance of corporate and foreign businesses filing bankruptcy each year. Ch 13 is only 27-38% of bankruptcy filings each year. Another thing is that personal bankruptcies are not a constant Y2Y. Personal bankruptcies peaked in 2010 at over 434,000 after the financial crisis, then dropped dramatically down to around 299,000 in 2016, 289,000 in 2019, and 194,000 in 2020. Chapter 13 Bankruptcies in US Year to Year 2008: 353k 2009: 398k 2010: 434.8k 2011: 417k 2012: 375k 2013: 343k 2014: 313k 2015: 302k 2016: 299k 2017: 296k 2018: 288k 2019: 289k 2020: 194k 2021: 117.7k 2022: 149k (.05% of the US population) Anytime someone presents a claim, automatically question whether that claim is even accurate, then do the research and understand the basic math. In the case of medical bankruptcy, it’s an extremely inflated piece of hype used by proponents of massive change to the overall US system, with no numbers to support it. It’s sensationalist hype really.
@@LRRPFco52 according to a 2019 study published in AJPH, 66.5% of all bankruptcy filings were due to medical issues. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found.
@@LRRPFco52 Not really the main point but I apologize if that term was misleading, I'm sure your figures are correct. The main thrust of my post was the absurdity of medical costs and the stress it places on Americans, financially and emotionally.
I fell and broke 2 ribs early this year; went to my local ER, they did a general X-Ray of my chest cavity and confirmed I had to broke/cracked ribs. The ER doc said there is really nothing we can do, go home and take it easy. A few weeks later I received a bill from the ER hospital for $25,500.00 USD. I'm uninsured, no health care, and unemployed. I was devastated. Our health care system is broke, and people like me need help with getting insurance. It's borderline criminal to charge $25k for a 30 minute ER visit.
@@Bigf00t100as a single man I agree but for people with families that’s a little too tricky. I have no idea how much I owe those bastards but all I know is that those billing envelopes make pretty good kindling for my little campfires.
@@ThePalmettoProletarian I get it. Trust me but in all honesty how I’m the hell is anyone going to pay off 20-30k I’m debt. That’s some people’s yearly salary. When I got COVID, I had lost my job along with my insurnace and needed to go to ER. All they did was a simple blood withdrawal and told Me to go home and take Tylenol. Was there for like 3 hours TOTAL. Nothing major. Got the bill a few weeks later 22k. I literally laughed and threw it away and never paid it. They sent me some collection shit a few times but overall they just stopped coming. This ain’t the first time I’ve neglected hospital bills, sue me. I don’t have shit and I’m not about to spend my life and energy making money to pay off this ridiculous bill. That’s outrages. The system is broken, don’t sweat it man, just ignore it and don’t pay. Luckily it doesn’t affect your credit so it’s cool
The worst part is that quality of healthcare here is not actually that good. We have some of the best docs in the world, but the average clinician available outside of major institutions is actually pretty substandard compared to other developed nations. Overspecialization too early in training means docs have very limited areas of expertise compared to count that require years of working as junior doctors before specializing.
@@sowososmooth False. The USA ranks 54th in Healthcare Quality. We have the most deaths caused by Drs. We are the highest in infant mortality in the industrial world! We are 12th in cancer treatment.
@Trevor Dylan Absolutely none of that addressed the very serious obesity epidemic within the US or even tried to compare the number of medical fatalities to the number of deaths caused by excessive over eating. Try again.
@@sowososmooth Your point was 100% false. You made an objectively false, and incredibly stupid comment. I corrected you by showing how Healthcare quality is the reason Americans die. Educate yourself if it embarrassed you.
I am an ER doc- here are the reason - out of the 125K patients that comes through an ER, only small percent can pay. so what they do is take the cost of running the ED and charge it to the people who can actually pay. in Med school and residency- we are taught to fix broken bodies. not prevent illness enough. lastly but mostly- we over treat, over test and over diagnose- because people love to sue and we have no option but to try to find everything wrong with you regardless of what is causing the issue. it is rotten.
Continually raising prices because only a small percentage can pay will only continue to make the system worse. Hospitals are a business focused on profits, and profits are made from acute health problems. Our medical system is not focused on prevention, but as you said, fixing broken bodies. We need a total overhaul that isn't so focused on bottom-line profits. Preventing 1,000 people from getting cancer brings in a lot less money than treating 1,000 people with cancer via hospitalized treatments, for example. Not painting you personally as the enemy, but this is just my perspective.
ALWAYS ask any nurse, doctor or staff who set one foot in your hospital room if they are "in your network"? If not they WILL take your house and every $ you have. I have seen it first hand. Be vigilant....
@@hugosalinasaliaga5266 homeless people don’t file bankruptcy. At my ER, almost every night a whole wing gets flooded with homeless who will make up any and all illnesses to have a place to stay for the night. 35 bed ER, at least 10 beds a night are homeless. Someone’s paying for those beds, and it ain’t them.
My dad had an 11 mile trip in a ambulance from hospital to home for hospice. I got the bill for the ambulance ride this week and it was $7300. His health insurance denied the bill because it wasn’t a medically needed trip. He passed away 30 hours after coming home.
A couple of years ago I went to one of those emergency clinics because I started having intense lower back pain and didn't have insurance. They said we think you have a kidney stone you need to go to the ER. The hospital was a block away. You could see it from the clinic. They put me in an ambulance for 5 minutes to the ER and it was $1600.00.
I was seeing this Finnish girl who told me about her ex's grandma, who lived in a town near the Norwegian border. One day she needed an emergency trip to the hospital, so a nearby Norwegian hospital sent her a helicopter and it was either free or something like 30 dollars (in Norwegian currency). Here in the US, we'd rather spend our money bombing brown people and playing with our toys in the sand, as late George Carlin said, may he rest in peace.
You're absolutely right, this issue 😔 does require more attention and thorough discussions. It's important to raise awareness and ensure that people are aware of the seriousness of the problem! 💪🌍
Until recently, I was working from home doing customer service for a huge health insurance company called Centene. I knew healthcare in the USA was not in good shape and still it was a huge eye opener. I stuck it out for over a year but just could not continue. So horrible. It has nothing to do with health or care. Something needs to change.
5 years ago I was admitted to a local hospital for 24 hours, and the bill - just for the hospital room itself (no meds, scans, Dr's, techs, etc. included) was 25K. For. A. Hospital. Room.
@@svyatoyaleksnevskiy If you think the hospital system, or anything for that matter, operates on the economics of capitalism than you might be a dumb Russian.
I'm a young man who does well for himself. Own a house etc. Had my first child and at the time I was paying about 500 dollars a month for health care for just my wife. This is a ton of money for me. For what I thought was a solid plan. I walked out with over 10k in medical bills for my child which was a straight forward 0 complications birth. It was scary.
@Chris Lyle rather not get personal here but know that this was private health care. I work in a freelance industry in nyc that generally doesn't have great benefits. Also my wife does not work.
Also gotta understand the hospital bill was likely what 5x that? Even your $500 a month won't touch $50,000 for quite a long time 😂... Insurance isn't the issue, cost of Healthcare is
I've had 6 MRIs over the past 5 years (New Zealand and th UK) for a benign but growing tumor, culminating in Cyberknife radiotherapy in November. Sure I pay a portion of my salary in national insurance here in the UK, but it's really miniscule given I'll get access to any needed treatment without additional cost. Our system is being brought to it's knees by political neglect and it isn't perfect but I'm grateful we have access to such great treatment without fear of financial ruin.
When I was in Grad school, we worked to offer health insurance thru the school and students (most were off-campus) in grad school didn’t want it because of the additional premium costs. I subsequently rolled my ankle and had to go to ER (thought it broke) and had X-rays done. My bill? $1,800. Also, good luck finding prices of any healthcare services and try to “shop around” for MRI’s, XRays, etc. it’s absolutely insane
I completely understand your frustration. The costs associated with healthcare in the US can be overwhelming and difficult to navigate. It's unfortunate that many students choose to forego health insurance due to the additional premium costs, only to find themselves facing hefty bills when unexpected medical situations arise. Additionally, the lack of transparency in pricing for healthcare services, such as MRI's and X-rays, makes it extremely challenging for individuals to make informed decisions and seek affordable options. The system definitely needs some improvement to ensure more accessible and affordable healthcare for everyone.
My dad had prostate issues- surgery in US with months wait time was around 36k-40k and he went to Mexico and around 3k and minimal wait time. Great doctors and no issues afterwards!
legalize all drugs, get rid of doctor licensure, and turf ownership in hospitals. and abolish the FDA. Remove intellectual property laws. We will then have the least expensive care in the world.
Why do we compare ourselves to just Canada? Why not France or Italy, which have been rated number one (or top 3) a number of times. The problem here is the focus is for-profit and not care. Look up “dollar bill” McGuire, he made billions and paid his employees bonuses to find ways not to pay for people’s care (even life saving care that was needed). Also we aren’t number one in quality, that all depends on what specific care we are talking about but often we aren’t.
My dad had that and the military took care of it for free because he was a retired military veteran. However, Clinton and Obama cannibalized military benefits so if dad was still alive, he would have had to pay.
@@GhostSal Health care in Japan is stellar. If I recall correctly, $25 per month covers everything including major surgery. I have several Japanese relatives and they are appalled at the health care costs in the U.S.
I work in the industry and I see it on the inside every day - hospitals drive up the costs (then play a guilt trip reputation war in the media when insurance companies ask them to come down on prices during negotiations). In the auto world, you turn the mechanic's bill into the insurance company and they pay you out directly....no insurance interfacing with the mechanic... However in the medical world, the hospital is legally allowed to negotiate a price with the insurer that is substantially higher than the cash price they'd quote the patient directly. Advice from an insider: 1. Control the health outcomes you can control (diet, exercise, alcohol, tobacco, sleep). 2. Open an HSA and auto-transfer $100/month into it every month for life. 3. Ask for the cash price and itemized bill for all planned services not guaranteed to be covered 100% by your insurance plan (example: outpatient surgeries like an appendix removal) before presenting proof of insurance. 4. Before the procedure and if your HSA funds can cover the cash price, present the bill to your insurance company YOURSELF and ask them to guarantee reimbursement (after you pay the cash price) according to your insurance plan (they will because they're saving money). 5. Pay cash to the hospital and await direct reimbursement from your insurer. . . . Insurance is meant for catastrophic events, not everyday maintenance. All Joe's guest had to do was follow the above steps (in fact, if he can pay a couple thousand for colonoscopies, he can ask for and pay the lower cash price for a blood test and IV bag easily), and he'd have probably only been out a few hundred bucks? Maybe a bit more? Fight fire with fire - don't let the hospitals go behind your back a drive up your insurance costs. It's not going to doctors and nurses; it's going to hospital CFOs.
Very good discussion discussing the pro and cons of both Canada and us health systems. I live in Canada and the wait times are absolutely atrocious. I can't even book a visit with my family doctor til like a month away. And the logic goes, if it's urgent, go to emergency. Well a lot of issues aren't urgent but requires medical attention somewhat within the week and there's nothing we can do. I don't see any reason why private health care should be banned when it will alleviate wait times to everyone involved. I know the concept of jumping the wait line with money is a bit of an ethical dilemma, but the end result is both sides gets lower wait times. People have to see the forest and not just the trees here.
Absolute bullshit. My mom was a Dr in Toronto. My wife is from Canada. Also I have read the WHO reports. The average wait time in Canada compared to US for surgery is 9 days Canada 8 days USA.
@@Yourmomshousemyrules It's not absolute bullshit, healthcare in Canada is all about waiting lists. For serious immediately-needed surgery maybe you can get in quick, but god forbid you get sick. I've been on waiting list after waiting to get into a sleep study for about a year now. I'm basically not sleeping at all and can't function during the day whatsoever because I wake up choking many times a night but the system doesn't see it as urgent. All specialists have minimum several-month waiting lists and once you get in, they usually do some incredibly half-assed 3 minute lookover and send you back out the door with no answers and you have to make another appointment with your GP where he puts you on another many-month waiting list (sometimes to see the very same unhelpful specialist again). I'm 26. I have had as-yet undiagnosed chronic health problems since I was a child, which have prevented me from finishing school, getting a job, or even having a basic social life. (This was greatly worsened by the two shots I got in 2021, which is a huge problem because our healtcare system is incredibly resistant to even acknowledge that possibility, so even talking about my health problems with professionals is a constant uphill battle.) I've spent basically my whole life on waiting lists and never getting any real answers about my health problems in between. (And plenty of wrong answers/psychiatric pill pushing which made things worse.) The only doctor who has started to make any real progress with my health problems is a private naturopath which my parents started paying thousands of dollars for over the past year. TL:DR it's nice that kinetic injuries are dealt with cheaply and quickly in Canada but everything else that you might want from healthcare is pretty much a write-off. A mirage intended to make healthy people think there will be help if they ever get sick.
@@cerebralm "I have a litany of health problems, so I went to a pseudo doctor instead of getting a genetics test" Move, then. Go be with the Americans. You can't work but mommy and daddy can fork out money for you. Must be nice. Most of us can't leave even if we wanted to.
The moment you open the gates for private enterprises to get a piece of the pie, that’s when prices start to go up and not just for the private sector but for everybody.
I live in Vietnam and the differences in cost and efficiency is jaw dropping. I can walk into an mri center, have it performed, read and given to me to bring to my doctor. The cost? Around 75 to -100 dollars. Drug prices? Pennies to dollars Eye care? Guy on the street does the exam, makes the lens and I pick the frame - 2 hour procedure and costs around 50 - 75 dollars. I will not be moving back anytime soon.
These SE nations are not the 3rd world countries many Americans look down upon, but America itself in many areas resembles 3rd world. Great move. We too call SE Asia our second home
Agree, the erosion of societal values in this country is partially to blame, along with corrupt govt and corporatism. Those things have greatly distorted the industry, and led to todays corporate culture of profits before people in medical.
Why would doctors run the hospital? If doctors run the hospitals, who is going to treat patients? It’s like saying how come astronauts don’t run NASA? Btw the hospital I go to is run by MD who is now the CEO and is no better or worst than any other hospital.
@@nepaliyuva408 He's saying that doctors do not make care decisions as they used to. Instead, they are now made by business executives who are not connected to the people, treatments, or medical decisions. Our healthcare system in America isn't even a free market like some claim - it's heavily restricted corporatism supported by the government. So no one faces any real consequences for their bad corporate decisions. It's why almost every industry has worse quality. Those corporatist types are vultures who rarely add value.
@@scratchpenny recently my mother passed away after 1.5 year battle with terminal Illness. We went through multiple hospitals and multiple doctors and at no point hospital executives were part of any decision making in terms of her care. At high level I can see they are making business decision but that should be no different in any point in time in history. Provide data that shows hospitals executives are making more decisions today than in the past in terms of treatments. Hospitals are businesses at the end of the day. Businessman should run business and doctors should treat patients. Politicians should do politics. Last businessman that tried politics is indicted of paying off porn star.
High costs have less to do with insurance companies than health care providers themselves. In any other industry, its illegal to charge different rates for the same testing and procedures, purely depending on the customer. Instead, we have hospitals who will charge as much money as each health insurance company can afford. Thats the racket. And hospitals are able to hide this by claiming that the prices they charge each individual health insurance company are TRADE SECRETS. The stupidity of this argument is beyond belief, and the only thing worse is that politicians accept that dumb legal argument in exchange for regular political donations. Every single hospital and health care institution should be legally required to disclose publicly what they charge everyone, so that insurance companies stop being overcharged, which just leads to the insurance companies passing the costs onto policy holders.
One of the huge problems I see is lack of information for consumers. If you as a patient wish to know how much health care costs before you make a decision about who to seek care from, or whether to seek care, there is a huge an deliberate obscuring of what health care costs. If you ask how much a VERY common procedure cost out of pocket (my experience was a hernia surgery), nobody knows. It's buried in some code and evaluated by some automated AI system for approval or denial of coverage. Free markets ONLY work without barriers to information between consumers and providers. So this necessarily needs to be a publicly administered societal benefit.
I live in Europe and from 2006 to 2015 I was working for a billing company that works with hospitals and helping them billing patients...I was amazed and could hardly believe that for a regular exam... simple stuff , you had a cold or anything simple and the bill for that was around 8time higher than where I live...amazing...another thing is you actually need to pay if you call an ambulance! Mesmerizingly out of control
where in Europe ???I am in Germany, in Hospitals, you may be paying 10 euros per Day , if you call an Ambulance also 10 euros or nothing if is ....heart attack or life life-threatening issue. All other exams and treatments are paid for by health insurance. Private Insurence is little diffrent
Went to Portugal on vacation. My son fell and needed stitches on his chin. We went to a private clinic, paid 56 Euros. Total. Blew my mind. That would have cost $2K in the U.S. with insurance. It was then I knew we were getting ripped off.
Then factor in paying insurance $500 a month just for the privilege of having access to healthcare. The healthcare act in the US is a scam that was somehow made law. Required to pay for health insurance? What the actual? Meanwhile, in socialist countries like the UK, you can get cancer treatment for next to nothing. Oh well. The US needs to pay for all those drones and aircraft carrier battle groups somehow.
The public health care in Portugal is dogsht, I'm portuguese. Some people die while waiting for a measly appointment. More than half of our population has a private health insurance plan because they don't trust the public health system
Sorry I’m not American and I’m from a country with universal healthcare so this idea is honestly hard for me to grasp. But one question, how the effing even with insurance that you still have to pay that much in America? Then what is the point of being insured then 😭
@@docsavage8640 You obviously didn't watch the video where they clearly state why the costs are so high. Corporate greed. Obviously we need more government to interfere.
Same thing happened to me. I was at the outpatient endoscopy center for less than two hours to get my colonoscopy and they billed my insurance $4500. I had met my deductible, so my portion was $1500. Still a lot of money. The way they justify these prices is because the facility is owned by a hospital, so they bill at is if you were getting in patient care.
My family and I moved to Mexico. In 2021 my got covid. We called a doctor for a house call. We messaged him maybe at 9:30 pm. He got to our house in the countryside in about an hour with a nurse and stayed for 1.5 hours while he administered an IV. He charged us $150USD. Getting basic care here has been so affordable because there are no crazy mark ups.
I have a friend; an interpreter; who worked all over the world. He got to a point where he was coming to the US less and less, as he was afraid he would get sick or injured there, and anywhere else in the world he would get free healthcare. He said many workers and experts in other countries were afraid of going to the US for the same reasons. Oh, and they were SO confused how the show Breaking Bad was possible, because in any other country Walter White would have simply gone to the Dr for free treatment.
Kind of doubt you can just walk in and get treated as a foreigner. In Canada for example I don't even think you are covered across provincial lines. You definitely won't be covered if you are a foreigner visiting Canada.
Foreign dignitaries, members of parliaments, wealthy, and even cartel bosses come to the US for procedures they can't get in their countries. Your post sounds like some propaganda from a Russian bot farm, to be honest. I and my family have gotten Healthcare or procedures in the US and Europe. Public NHS in Germany, Finland, Sweden is trash so if you want fast results, you go to the private sector there and pay $100/15 minutes, otherwise you wait in the public hospitals forever.
I have an American friend who worked in England. After several visits to a hospital, and many misdiagnoses, she was finally diagnosed with cancer. The doctor told her to go back to the states where she had a chance to survive. "Free" unfortunately has a cost and impacts quality.
I was forced by paramedics to go to the hospital when I said I would be fine, but they said I had to go and be observed for 4 hours or they could be liable, I was placed on a stretcher in the hallway and a doctor came by one time and asked me 3 questions then left and I never saw him again. No one spoke to me again until they said I could leave. I received a bill totaling $3043.67. I received absolutely no treatment of any kind, just sat in the hallway and answered 3 questions. The doctor that asked the three questions charged $1453.00. Don't even know what the rest of the bill was for. Luckily I was able to receive some help through the county I live in but I still had to pay over $1500 out of pocket. There is no logic to it at all, they just make up numbers so they can get rich.
I had the same type of situation I got a 3k bill for just laying there with a really bad stomach pain I paid them NOTHING and never will it’s been 13 years the hospital I went to shut down
Wow that’s ridiculous. I wouldn’t pay for that. If anything I’d send them $1-5 dollars a month. Also you didn’t have to go. They lied to you. I’m pretty sure they can’t force you to do anything. Unless, you were going to harm yourself or others. Otherwise, they need a court order to take you to the hospital.
The numbers are super made up . That's also why it is so hard to get a price before hand too. I never understand how that is legal. Ive had offices tell me and this is knowing what insurance i have that we dont know but youll get a bill after its billed..... Bitch i need to know now cuz i need to know if im gonna be able to afford food for the next 5 months or not
This almost happened to my mother when I was growing up. My older brother told them we would press criminal charges for kidnapping if they took her. She was fully conscious and protesting. They acquiesced and backed off when he said that.
This happened to me when I had to take my kid to the ER for a fever I couldn't control. At the time I didn't know ibuprofen and Tylenol could be used together as they dont conflict with one another. We waited 4 hours, they gave my kid Tylenol and ibuprofen, and they charged insurance over $7,000, $2,700 of which we had to pay out of pocket.
That's the saddest story I have heard so far! In China, a fever won't make you bankrupt nor would minor injuries. However, cancer would make you bankrupt. I couldn't believe that the healthcare system in America is so shocking! 😢
Wow. What you described in the beginning costs less than $20 here. I don't even bother with insurance since private Healthcare is so cheap (went for an mri, was inside the machine within 25 minutes, cost $90).
I was recently in India and my left wrist had been bothering me for a while. Decided to call up an orthopedic specialist(yeah can directly do that instead of needing a referral like in US), made an appointment for the same day. During appointment, got his consultation. Doc said, I needed to get an X-ray. Got the X-ray, he gave me his conclusion and next steps. All this in span of 2hrs and cost of less than $20 (consultation + X-Ray) And this wasn't some shop in a ditch, this was a reputed hospital in big city like Bangalore
@@trippinatormachine Exactly, but that's the point. The actual cost is practically nothing, but what we are charged is outrageous. My chiropractor is where I go if I need an xray. 60 bucks for a series of 6 x-rays. The Urgent Care 260!
I moved to Poland several years back & there is a mix of BOTH private & public healthcare here. Everyone has public healthcare, but employers offer private insurance as an extra benefit of working at a certain company. When I had really bad food poisoning & needed fluids, but it was difficult for me to leave my house, a nurse made a house call & gave me the fluids I needed to start feeling better. This was part of the private insurance plan. The public plan wouldn't do anything like this. I used this service once again when I got shitfaced & was so hungover that I couldn't get out of bed.
Medical bankruptcy is one of the most inflated claims in the US to generate hype for political purposes, while not having a very significant influence on bankruptcy filings. Bankruptcy filings are a result of multiple factors, and medical bills are nowhere near the top factor according to all the data I have studied. For starters, Elizabeth Warren’s cherry-picked study went to 2005, where there were only 1.45 million bankruptcies filed in the whole US including Chapter 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15. Only Ch 13 is for wage-earners, while Ch 15 represented the largest % of filings. The study expanded the parameters to include if people had missed 2 weeks of work due to sickness, had medical bills over $1000, and mortgaged their home to pay for bills. If bankruptcy filers fell into those categories, it was listed as "bankruptcy due to medical expenses", even if that wasn’t true. That’s less than half a percent of the overall population who even filed for bankruptcy. By adding those parameters, they fudged the data to indicate that 61% of the filers filed because of medical expenses. Another study in 2011 found that only 26% of Ch 13 filers said medical expenses played a role. Some studies said 57.1% while others said more people filed bankruptcy for medical expenses than overall bankruptcy filings, which is egregiously flawed. Not only can’t all Ch 13 filers be due to medical expenses, but Ch 13 can’t exceed all of the types of Chapter filings due to the dominance of corporate and foreign businesses filing bankruptcy each year. Ch 13 is only 27-38% of bankruptcy filings each year. Another thing is that personal bankruptcies are not a constant Y2Y. Personal bankruptcies peaked in 2010 at over 434,000 after the financial crisis, then dropped dramatically down to around 299,000 in 2016, 289,000 in 2019, and 194,000 in 2020. Chapter 13 Bankruptcies in US Year to Year 2008: 353k 2009: 398k 2010: 434.8k 2011: 417k 2012: 375k 2013: 343k 2014: 313k 2015: 302k 2016: 299k 2017: 296k 2018: 288k 2019: 289k 2020: 194k 2021: 117.7k 2022: 149k (.05% of the US population) Anytime someone presents a claim, automatically question whether that claim is even accurate, then do the research and understand the basic math. In the case of medical bankruptcy, it’s an extremely inflated piece of hype used by proponents of massive change to the overall US system, with no numbers to support it. It’s sensationalist hype really.
I got paralyzed from the neck down in 2020 at the age of 21. After about four months in the hospital my bill was $1.3 million. Thank God my mom has good insurance.
In Quebec, you can consult a doctor in the day by calling early for booking. Most of the time, doc will see you the same day a few hours later. You pay around a hundred suscription for a year plus 75$ each consultation in that same year.
Doctor salaries have actually decreased directly due to less reimbursement from insurance companies and indirectly from inflation. Insurance companies, administrators and policy makers are a huge problem. None of these parties deliver care but leach off the system, driving up costs.
It's also the lawyers. We need medical legal reform. You have to limit what can be sued for and how much. Otherwise, you have these emotional settlement decisions raising costs to astronomical levels.
@scratchpenny I kind of agree until you draw it to extremes. Let's take a look at government Healthcare in America. The doctor doesn't get sued, just a tort claim against the government. Aka tax dollars pay for the doctors malpractice. I understand people wanting some form of socialized medicine, I'm just not sold. I understand being able to afford good Healthcare makes me biased. One of the things I like/liked(slowly changing) was the meritocracy of America. Was/is it perfect no? But it was/is pretty damn desirable for people who wanted the best
My 3mo old son went to ER for fever (he had COVID) - because the nurses said was a very urgent emergency. I knew it was a waste of time, and he could be treated with low dose Tylenol, but whatever - my wife made us go. Then they said they need to complete a spinal tap to rule out meningitis. I said he has COVID, it's a positive test, and he caught it from my wife. Then they implied I was harming the child if I refused to allow a spinal tap. They pressured my wife but I declined. They then called some social services moron who no joke started lecturing me about child abuse. FYI - the risks of a botched spinal tap on a 3mo old is paralysis so I stated this and told them he has COVID, it's not needed. After arguing with everyone and the moron social service worker they sent him home with Tylenol. He recovered in about 20mins and that was it. 2weeks later they sent CPS round for an evaluation (nothing happened). Turns out major hospitals (Bostons Children's) discontinued spinal taps on COVID infants and the hospital in question was behind the curve. They sent CPS round to my house because their dumb procedures were outdated and I was right all along. Also - a neighbor had the exact same issue - they went ahead with the spinal tap and it cost the insurance company $9,000 for procedure and labs. AND they paid $3k out of pocket. And the kid had transient paralysis of lower limbs. Luckily he recovered. What a bunch of morons
you're a good and vigilant father. That hospital probably knew about the spinal tap guidance but were doing it anyway to milk insurance $$$. Happens all the time in healthcare--they run the gamut of expensive and unnecessary tests
I went to the ER a few years ago and they did like two tests and the bill was over $14k. Recently went to the hospital again and my bill after insurance was almost $5k. Both times they never figured what was wrong with me. Not to mention as a self employed person my insurance is over $700 a month. It's insane.
That's crazy. I was just at a clinic in S Korea and was kinda mad I paid so much for my IV and blood test: around 50 bucks. I went because I have a cold. I was out in less than 2 hours; one of those hours was lying in a bed and getting my IV. People here go for a runny nose because it is so efficient and affordable. The national health insurance is compulsive and is a wealth tax, so the richest people in Korea will be paying tens of thousands of dollars a month, while a middle class family of 5 will pay maybe 500 bucks.
my favorite thing that blew my mine was when they showed the prices of the same procedure at several different hospitals in a city/state. One hospital would charge $200 and another would charge $2000.
I can totally relate. Ive had two shoulder surgeries but I still get frequent dislocations. Unfortunately, I sometimes need to go to the ER because I can’t pop it back in myself. When I go, I’m usually in and out in 30 minutes. No IVs, no anesthesia, nothing. Just a doctor moving my shoulder around for a few minutes until it pops back in. My last ER visit cost me $3,000 AFTER INSURANCE!!! Why even have insurance at that point. This is insane and possibly the biggest problem in America.
Without a doubt. There’s no justification for what we are getting charged for this shit. I spend $7000 a year on insurance for myself and my daughter and have to spend $6000 before it kicks in. I could drive a fucking Porsche for what I pay these cocksuckers. How this country hasn’t burned down the White House in relation to this is beyond me.
Insurance is a ridiculous concept. It's nothing but an excuse to inflate price. You get rid of the insurance system tomorrow, all services will suddenly be billed at operating cost which would 100% be affordable to just about everyone.
I also had to have some bloodwork done last year.. and it was not covered by insurance.. the administration costs were.. 12 euros.. and the bloodwork was 15 euros.. then, there was a post stamp costs... I got a bill for 30 euros..
Years ago I had a surgery. My insurance refused to cover the anesthesia because the Anesthesiologist was out of network. I met this individual while I was getting prepped for surgery. Was I supposed to ask each person I see if they were in network? I remind everyone I know, whether it's car, health, home, whatever; private insurance companies maximize their shareholder return by finding ways to not pay for what you need.
If you do your research and challenge the cost, they will drop the bill dramatically. More often than not people just pay (or don't). I have been a nurse for 20 years and know what should be done and what most tests cost. For instance, my year old daughter was suctioned in the ER and they charged us 8k for respiratory life savings measures. I harassed the hospital for an itemized bill, looked up the ICD codes and challenged them. The actual cost for treatment rendered was around $80. Due to my challenge, the bill was dropped completely. Aside from billing errors, simples tests are marked up to exaggerate the price of care rendered. This is usually without the knowledge or consent of the treating physician. A CBC doesn't cost $500 but if they can get away with it...they will. Deep pockets have no heart.
Imagine if we had some kind of regulatory body that actually functioned and reigned in fraud and abuse against consumers by large corporations. Oh well, maybe some day.
I was hospitalized for a recurring issue overseas (Philippines), my bill for 6 days was less than $4000 usd. This included ER trip, room, meds, xrays, and cat scans. I was in a private room and received the same level of care I have in the states.
@@mohamedalkaboom I do have medical insurance. The total billed amount was 4k, I paid less than $600 out of pocket. I am unsure of other countries, but would look into it if you are looking to have a procedure. Thailand is billing itself as a medical tourism destination now.
@@justinpeepee8454 thanks Justin. Only curious. I was also hospitalized in Manila a few years ago with a stomach problem while I was marrying a local there. It’s good to know how foreigners handle medical there, as wife and I will be spending part of every year in Philippines
It's refreshing to see important topics being discussed, and it would be great if Joe could engage with a senator or representative on his show to provide deeper insights and perspectives. This kind of dialogue can help shed light on various issues and generate a more informed and constructive discussion.
Was just explaining to my doc in Costa Rica how I had insurance come out of my check, but still had to pay for everything until my deductable was met(6k). He couldn't wrap his head around it, literally perplexed.
Quality of care means nothing when most people can't even access that care without a significant, often crippling financial burden. My experience with doctors has been them being egotistical, money hungry shills for the pharmaceutical industry. I've also experienced far too much incompetence in American healthcare to say that we have amazing quality of care. I recently went to get some blood work done, they called me back over a week later and said it turned out they hadn't gotten enough blood from me so I need to go back in and have them redraw my blood. They also prescribed me antibiotics and told me to start taking them before they even got the results to see if I had this UTI type thing(which I had no symptoms for, I was just getting tested cause my gf had it). I didn't take the antibiotics because it's irresponsible to take antibiotics for no reason, and they're terrible for you. I wanted to wait to get the results. I was negative. Also, they didn't even want to test if I had it, they assumed I had it despite me having no symptoms and I had to ask for them to test me because I wanted to know for sure. I mean who wouldn't. Also, my experience with psychiatrists has basically been me telling them what medications I want and then getting them prescribed and having to keep going back for appointments to get the dose up to what I knew from the start was the effective dose for me. Then getting refills can be a huge hassle with certain medications. The entire healthcare system is just a nightmare.
He is right about having the best healthcare in the world, if you can afford the best place. My father is battling cancer, almost wants to give up on treatments to save our family from the financial burdon. Has been doing chemo for about 3 months, he is down about 30 lbs and weak. He fell the other day. And debated going to the ER even though he had hit his head on the concrete, and had a lump on his head, and his arm was all bruised up, and he was having trouble straightening his leg. And he kept saying "it would cost too much, I don't need to go." Even with insurance it's still stupid how much any form of Cancer treatment or emergency medical treatment.
I agree with alot of what you said...but yes as someone who just discovered this crap called specialty clinics for chronic issues and the refill hassle with that beingnmore than the normal situation. Im convinced the refill scam with psychs is simply so they can billa visit lol
I was called an abuser when I questioned the bullying nurses on the reasoning behind unnecessary tests they tried to give my 18-year-old daughter who was sent to the ER by urgent care. To be clear, this was a non-emergency, and she did not need to be there. I had an extremely high insurance deductible. They were telling her what tests they wanted to run and I advised her to not give permission until she spoke with me. They refused to allow me to speak with her apparently because she was 18 at the time. They would not allow her to charge her phone so she could call me and they would not allow her to use the phone in the ER. They kept repeating, 'her body, her choice' like she was pregnant or something. I simply said - great, send her the bill then. They shut up pretty quickly after that. She eventually ran out of there. Crazy
Used to work for a company that would send you and one other person to Costa Rica for routine surgery..... And it was still on average 10 grand cheaper than having it done in the states
I had a public defender years ago who was really smart, hard working and dedicated. He got my charges completely dropped with zero probation or court costs.
It's refreshing to hear about professionals in the legal system who go above and beyond to serve their clients. It's great that they were able to achieve such a positive outcome for you, resulting in dropped charges without any additional penalties. Their intelligence, hard work, and commitment are definitely commendable.
I was rushed into the ER one morning morning due to a heart condition, after injecting medication my heart stablized and they said they just need to run a couple of test that afternoon, and stay overnight just in case. They stalled and didn't do the test until later so i ended up staying for 3 days for no reason. The bill was $38k and i had to pay $12k after insurance. The most frustrating thing about the breakdown of the bill was that the total cost on my actual time on the ER was only $1200. The part that saved my life. The rest of the bill was just me laying on the hospital bed for 3 days for no reason.
I've had babies, surgeries, numerous hospital visits etc. in Australia and it cost nothing. Pretty decent care too although there are issues like anywhere else. There's still a private system for the picky people too
A question from ignorance, I am from Spain, here our healthcare was always public, in case a person cannot pay the cost of an operation or something similar, what happens?
@@menda3682 Cada caso es único,dependiendo del estado,el seguro médico(si tienes uno),el hospital donde fuiste atendido. Se te podrían dar plan de pagos a largo plazo o descuentos por demostrar que económicamente se te hace imposible pagar. Pero a la larga de alguna forma u otra tienes que pagar algo. Si no dependiendo donde vives esa deuda puede pasar a tu récord crediticio y arruinarte porque nadie te va a hacer préstamos o darte tarjeta de crédito por esa mancha que tienes. También podría pasar que esa deuda se la vendan a una agencia de colección de deuda y esos hijos de puta te harán la vida imposible hasta llegar a un acuerdo de pago.
I work in a hospital. The amount of regulation is so insane, we have to hire tons of people to keep up with it. The amount of people actually taking care of patients is minimal.
A question from ignorance, I am from Spain, here our healthcare was always public, in case a person cannot pay the cost of an operation or something similar, what happens?
@@menda3682 They don’t get treated, thousands of them on the street around here, I’ve not met a homeless person without a serious medical problem they can’t get treated
I hear you. I work in air medical (life flight) and the regulations on us are insane. We get it from both ends, medical regs and aviation regs. The department I'm in was regulated into existence just a couple of years ago by the FAA. You're looking at $1 million in salaries added to the company at the snap of a finger.
@@smithdakotalee Do these homeless people have jobs? I would assume not, but if not, what keeps them from being on Medicaid? Sorry if this is an ignorant question.
@@menda3682 Sometimes they get the operation anyway but then have large medical bills following them and presumably their credit. Sometimes they can negotiate lower bills with the medical facility, on the basis that the prices are so high in the first place partially due to deals with insurance companies and to make up for those that don’t pay, among other reasons. Sometimes. (I’m no expert; I just know of a few cases like that.)
Ok so I have something to share as a brazilian: here we have part of our healthcare offered by the government through tax money, the quality varies drastically depending on where it's offered but on average it's really bad, almost useless bad. I had a kidney problem when I was 19 and my family had no private insurance, so we went to the public system first. We got the basic exams done in three days time in a private facility (our district has a public-private deal where they pay private facilities to use their machines, it's not so common countrywide, I just happen to live in an above average town), the exams were an xray, a blood test and an urine test. After the exams we got back to the doctor and he explained that I would need a cirurgy immediately because my condition was critical, In his own words I had 2 weeks at most until both kidneys fail. The thing is that there was a waiting period of more than 6 months to get the cirurgy done in the public system so that was not an option for me as I would surely die before then. I had to go to a private hospital that charged me around 25k BRL for it (most brazilians dont earn this amount of money in a year worth of work), I was lucky my grandad had this money saved and paid for it. Next day I has the cirurgy and everything went fine. Down here we see in the news everyday hundreds of people dying waiting for all kinds of medical treatment in the public system, it's a huge problem. Now we pay around 2k BRL/month for private healthcare insurance that covers pretty much anything, while still paying around 60% in taxes for public services that we cannot count on.
you are wrong , im brazilian too, we do have many problems, things could work much better, but on average its not useless bad, your case is very specifical, you were about to die
I'm surprised they didn't talk about the medical loss ratio (MLR) as bing a part of why the cost of care, and the cost of insurance continues to go up year over year.
Exactly. I know like with Cigna, they have negotiated rates that can be 30-70% knocked right off the top but it technically is the price that would never get paid. Like my asthma meds will say $500, Cigna Rate $150, my Copay is $15.
I once had my lungs flare up due to a lot of stress caused from me getting fired from a very good job 4 months after buying my first home ... I was watching that Pixar movie with the silly little racing blue snail and by the end of the movie I was gasping for breath and leaning backwards, forwards or laying down on my back or my side felt like I was barely able to breath and gasping for air and it was getting worse and worse...I woke up my family at 2am and they rushed me to the ER. By the time I had gotten to the ER and the time I was sitting in the waiting room about 45 mins had passed and when the doctors did finally see me, whatever I was going through had calmed down a lot and I was able to breath a little easier and easier ...When They checked me out he told me it was most likely stress related due to be losing my job that day. I was kinda stunned and embarrassed that my body reacted the way it did as I was def bummed out and low on money but I was not hysterical or depressed over it or anything...They checked my blood pressure and that was about it. I t was a total false alarm and we just drove back home...few days later I got a bill in the mail for over $4k...for talking with the doc for 15 min and having my blood pressure taken. I took a corrections class where my instructor told me that all the inmates and prisoners all over America get free medical treatment paid for by taxpayers. He showed us a case with a very sick inmate who was very old and debilitated due and he had so many serious health issues and he showed us how NY state was paying close to 1Million a year in medical bills and special treatment to keep a convicted murderer's heart and kidneys working and he highlighted that if one of our mothers got sick with the same issues as the inmate the state would send their thoughts and prayers buy not spend a single $1 of that tax money to save out family It's shit like this that makes good citizens want to rage against the system...they could fix these issues in a few short years and alot of work and help many Americans if they wanted but it always comes down to $$$ in the end and they are always screaming about not having money but we see how the Pandemic, Banks crashing and the war in Ukraine showed us that these elites and law makers could easily whip up Billions of dollars out of the ether when they need too
I had a mrsa infection in my leg, 8 days in the hospital, i had 3 meals a day, 1 injection of pain meds, 1 of a blood thinner, and antibiotics. Thats it and i got first bill and it was 5k and i was like ouch, then more poured in and it ended up being almost 40k. My mom needed a liver transplant and it is a minimum of 500k , they wouldnt even put her on a list cause she didnt have funds or insurance to cover it. She got to see her grandkids a total of 2 times before she died.
@@spacebound2195 never had a panic attack personaly, but i could see how someone might not realize what was going on, could have easily been a heartattack. One of my jiujitsu students thought they were having a panic attack so they had a couple beers to relax and turned he had a blockage and had a heart attack. Luckily he survived.
I paid cash for an exam where they tested for strep. Costed around $120. I did it on insurance a separate time and somehow costed ME $250. I still have a simmering rage about it.
I was listening to a freakonomics episode discussion this same issue. The healthcare system is in a deadly embrace with the insurance companies. Currently the health providers inflate the prices because so many people don't pay. So those bills need to be paid by those others. The insurance companies struggle to have policies to cover the ongoing cost increases and so the show goes on.
In Oklahoma they have something called soonercare which is basically Medicare. I had it for years making 25k a year. They pay 100% of medical bills, ambulance rides and I believe life flight but I'm not sure. My wife had twins and they were early like twins usually are. The NICU 2 week stay was 300k the birth was another 90k and my wife's aftercare another 60k. I run my own small construction company that I'm still out there working with my crew. That bill would've ruined my entire life. There is no chance I'd pay that off. I can't afford a home right now but I hope to in the future and it just never would've happened with that debt and the hit to my credit. People don't seem to give a shit but illegal immigration is ruining blue collar family lives. The wages go down the cost of living goes up. Supply and demand. They also don't have to pay bills at hospital. I bet that's a large percentage of the unpaid bill excuse. There's also the fact that they just charge what they want because insurance will pay because they make so much money off everyone that it's no big deal to them. Insurance is a scam, government involvement is a scam. It's getting harder and harder for even smart, hard-working clean living men to climb out of poverty. Wake up everyday and work in the sun doing physical labor 10 or 12 hours and you can't feed your kids or provide a roof.
As someone living in Europe, my mouth dropped when I heard the prices. If you hop on a plane and come here for the examination, you'd probably pay less, despite the travel and accommodation costs.
@Master Splinter he said about not being able to get mri and stuff. I hurt my knee, and my regular dr (not hospital, not ER) was able to send me downstairs to get an x-ray that day for it. Only waited like 20 mins.
Depends. I have eye issues. I looked at prices in Switzerland for treatment. Its already more than just getting it done here in the US (with insurance i have). Ive also never been to Switzerland but i know whe i was traveling Europe it was very expensive. That said yea prob Germany (acc where im prob going for this eye disease) and other place are prob better and more cost efficient and Switzerland is a big anomaly.. Edit: Also to be fair like the Doctor who invented this eye treatment and has some novel techniques is in Switzerland. So the quality of care is prob 5x better esp because the FDA didnt even approve it until like 10 years after Europe was doing it.
My ex wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis the same year we were married. The first year she had that disease, the healthcare cost were over $1 million, and I am not even joking.
My friend's wife has MS. She has physical therapy, pain management, a multi-purpose chair, a chair crane for the car, a powered inclining bed, a doctor, and a part-time nurse. That is all paid for by the government. I'm happy for my taxes to go toward this than an over-bloated military or the pharmaceutical industry.
No lol she left me. If you look up multiple sclerosis and divorce, you never read about the person that has the disease that leaves. She had it for about three years and then in 2021 she decided she didn’t want to be married anymore.
Generally,no one pays attention until it directly impacts them. I never gave this a thought until a few years ago. Asked for an itemized bill and then began researching the medical/ insurance business- he’s not wrong, prices were by and large made up. Cash patients, tiered insurances, it was disgusting.
I broke my leg in two places in Australia, didn't cost me a cent. The only cost was follow up visits, that was about $100 each visit x4. No private health or insurance.
My nephew is going to medical school there. He loves universal medicine, but decided to come back to the US for residency because the pay is so low, lol.
canadian here. 15 years ago I got spinal fusion surgery. they did a great job. when I call to see my doctor I'm booked in a week, and to get bloodwork I get a note and walk downstairs, wait like 15 mins. couple weeks later I have my results. I'm happy paying my taxes.
It’s usually more things like if u need imaging, that’s my experience in BC seeing a doctor is pretty quick usually a week or two it’s seeing specialist or imaging like MRI depending where u live, also depends the level of necessity and severity is, more severe things happen a lot quicker for sure
Exactly same I have CKD I have two doctors 2 nurses a social worker routine bloodwork done very efficient. This guy has no idea what he is speaking on and is trying to justify the quality of care for the money he spent. The poor cancer patients coming to the states as their last hope, they still die only in massive dept to their families..
I used to live in a beautiful home in a great neighborhood after studying all my life, going to school and getting out of North Philly. I accepted a new job so I had a little over a month off before the new job started. I didn't pay the incredible cost of carryover health care because we were in our early 30s and we would be picking up the new company's healthcare when I started. Well... that was a huge mistake. I now live in Kensington, Philadelphia and have lost everything except for what matters the most, my wife. The jobs that I used to get check your credit score so now it's impossible to get a high end job in my profession. The system is NOT broken. it's working just as intended for the shareholders. Something needs to be done.
also don't listen to the credit sharks, they can't actually take everything from you, home/car are mostly protected, contact a lawyer and make a unified debt plan.
Might not mean much but I hope everything falls into place for you, and I'm sure it will. Have you thought about looking at employment around Europe? I'm sure your profession will have opportunities out here where you won't be held back by your credit score in the States. I had to do something similar when I was going through a rough patch and a move to another country helped me with a fresh start and a clean file. Good luck!
@@youngatheart7106 COBRA!!! That's it!! I couldn't remember the name of it. Yes, I was informed but it was SO very expensive just for the short time between jobs, and since we were young & not going to be traveling anywhere we decided to just wait for the coverage we'd have in just over a month. Like I said originally, big mistake. Those few thousands of dollars invested for that 0month of coverage would have made our lives go in a completely different direction.
Joe pretty much described the UK health system, apart from a direct link to health = politicians salary, which would be very difficult to do. The UK health system isn''t perfect but recently I went through some things and within a month, had an underactive thyroid discovered and prescribed for. An MRI, CT scan, six blood tests for 25 different things (all results accessible online, some immediately), three ultra-sounds on three different parts of my body, two X-ray sessions on five different places and am being seen by specialist consultants at their clinics for follow up tests. The cost was the petrol to get there (and my taxes), and due to it being a lifelong condition, the thyroid medication is free and I get a card for all other future meds (for free) because of it. However, the UK system does flick between broken and working due to the continual costs, which comes from older populations and better diagnosis and treatment, which ironically we have because of the US system, where investment by health companies is used to extract greater healthcare costs from populations. Oh, if you think you'd encourage healthy lifestyles to reduce costs, you're wrong. The UK won't even build the houses to improve health and reduce costs/burdens, let alone challenge the narratives of 'kind' people.
I’m from the uk and been in the US on and off for 1.5 years. I can not believe how bad health care is here. I have good insurance but it doesn’t matter sometimes. I find it incredibly stressful to navigate this system. I lived and worked in the Middle East with private health care and it was much easier.
It is incredibly stressful. The system actively disuades you from using it. That’s by design though, the insurance companies would much prefer you keep paying them without using their services.
I’m Irish, we have public and private healthcare. A two layered system where those who can afford it, pay and those who can’t don’t. It works, but has its issues too.
I drove myself to the Emergency Room last year due to some abdominal pain which turned out to be a Kidney Stone. Was in the ER for 4 hours and was provided an IV with morphine and then released. They charged insurance $17,000 for my visit. Which I was responsible for $3,000 of. If I knew how much it was going to cost I wouldn’t have gone to the ER.
I think part of the issue is that insurance is being forced to act like a healthcare plan ... Insurance in any other industry is for if something happens .. not maintenance costs. But in healthcare we have regulated the maintenance costs into it ... vastly expanding the cost. We need insurance to go back to being insurance ... and for either the government or private with regulation to create separate healthcare plans.
I am currently traveling, and I am in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia. Recently, I got a MRI scan with contrast at a local Malaysian hospital here for $450 all out of pocket. Back in 2020 I had a MRI with contrast in the US too, the hospital billed me at $12000, then my insurance came in and negotiated it down to $9000. In the Malaysian hospital, I was able to schedule the MRI scan the next day. The one in US took me a while because the insurance company required me to prove that I actually needed the scan by doing some other tests/scan/consultations first so the insurance company's expert can review and approve the scan. It took like 2 weeks. Also, while I was in Vietnam, I got bitten by a dog. Getting rabies is basically the same as getting the death sentence. So I had to get 5 rabies shots manufactured by a French company. 4 of those shots were done in Vietnam for $15 to $20 each, then the last shot in Taiwan for $50. If in US, I would have to take 4 shots manufactured by an American company, and each shot is about $350, so total would be $1400. I had done a quick check on travel medical insurance and international medical insurance. They are different, but when comes to coverage, I notice that their base plans always say something like: Global coverage, EXCLUDING United States. But if I choose a plan that covers US, then the monthly premium goes up, especial for the international medical insurance, which could double. And sometimes there would be other rules like: you can't stay in US for longer than a month (less likely to go to the hospital which would cost the insurance company)
This issue is complicated. Another big factor in the high costs of liability insurance for hospitals and healthcare workers, etc. Not just the actual dollars for the insurance policies, but also out of the sheer fear of being sued. This creates a mindset where the providers order tests and procedures that are unnecessary. It’s huge billions of dollars business for attorneys on both sides of the equation. I retired early from my almost 30 years as an Emergency Physician for this same reason.
James Dozier feels just like the gold rush in california... once money is to be made, all the cockroaches comes in to profit off us! people will always get sick, so each industry found a way to leech off us!!!
It's all admin fees. I'm not exaggerating when I say that hospital bills are inflated up to 30x JUST because insurance. 1) they know they'll pay whatever they're charged and 2) the hospital has to hire thousands of admin staff to work with insurance companies for billing purposes. Those prices simply get passed on to you. And then insurance companies, will do everything in their power to NOT pay it. I had to deal with an insurance company over an ER visit for damn near 18 months before they finally paid it after I threatened to get lawyers involved. By the end of the ordeal, I had paid more in my monthly insurance payments than they paid out, and I spent hours of my own time on the phone with the hospital and them. Had I not been forced by the government to have insurance, I would have just paid the bill out of pocket, and it would have been cheaper.
Why do we compare ourselves to just Canada? Why not France or Italy, which have been rated number one (or top 3) a number of times. The problem here is the focus is for-profit and not care. Look up “dollar bill” McGuire, he made billions and paid his employees bonuses to find ways not to pay for people’s care (even life saving care that was needed). Also we aren’t number one in quality, that all depends on what specific care we are talking about but often we aren’t.
I appreciate Joe's call for healthy lifestyles and that would help the US to close the gap in lifespan with other rich nations. But our healthcare costs have little to do with our lifestyles. The last years of our lives is when all the crazy spending happens. That might be when Joe is ninety and some fat smoker is sixty, but if you get sick before you die, which almost everyone does, the healthcare system will take their toll. My grandmother lived a healthy and frugal life, but the over $1M spent by a hospital in the last WEEK of her life would have wiped out her (and my late grandfather's) remaining savings five times over if she wasn't well insured.
Great point. I also didn’t fully understand his perspective that there is 0% that goes into promoting healthy lifestyle and a lot that goes into body positive. There’s a lot to unpack there but, to start, how is that true? Is he talking about the messaging that comes from the government? Is he talking about the messaging from society in general? You know what I mean? It’s an argument that raises so many questions that weren’t answered.
@@mindful_wander cause Joe lately has been leaning right in his view points. And his talking point is always to attack the “woke” aspect than addressing the actual issue.
So high? It’s because of “insurance” , which removes the positive effects of “supply & demand “ / “free market” . Compare that to DPC , and DPC prices, which are far less than “copay”
When u take your customers last dollar , they can’t come back !! Med industry has done this for so long, hence obama care , was designed to rescue the med industry financial, which is bloated and actually killing itself . Add to that some hospice killing patients for 30k incentive, they are running out of customers to loot
This is why virtually anyone with elderly parents travelling to the US for tourism is advised to purchase medical insurance because they'd be in a real fix if they were to require an ER visit. Scary af.
Here's an idea just don't pay 😊 In 2008 I was robbed by some gang members and stomped unconscious with my clavicle crushed and head split open needing staples. Somebody found me called 911 then I ended up getting life flighted to the ER. THEY SENT ME A BILL FOR 20,000 LOL!!! I was ever gonna pay that and never will I swear to God. You can't make me I dare them to try!!! 😊
@@carbon-based-lifeform9172 You should google "number of years for medical debt to go away" and look at the first result. You can probably get your debt dismissed.
My father, a doctor that works overseas, had an ear infection while visiting the US. Overseas, he would simply go to the pharmacy and tell the pharmacist he has a simply ear infection. The pharmacist would sell him a $5 drug. No fuss, no doctors, no insurance, no BS. In the US, he had to go to a doctor and pay $350 for a 5 minutes consultation for the obvious diagnosis and prescription. Then go to the pharmacy to fill the prescription from a "pharmacist" who just drops the ear drops into a paper bag and pay another $350. $700 total for what costs $5 overseas. This is criminal. The quality of care isn't better than other even less developed countries. Don't be fooled by that. Insurance companies, drug companies, hospitals and even doctors are thieves in the United States.
That's cap. Sorry there's just no way you paid $350 for them. Urgent care visits are typically $100-150 self pay and no common antibiotic eardrops cost that much. The brand name stuff like Tobradex might be that much but they would automatically use the generic. If you're a foreigner or without insurance the pharmacy apply a cash discount card and you shouldn't be paying more than $50.
Yeah sorry but I'm calling bullshit. I've lived on the US all my life. I carry a high deductible plan so most of the medical care I get I pay out of pocket for. An office visit even at one of the walk in places which are more expensive is maybe 150 tops and even without insurance there is no way he paid 350 for antibiotic ear drops. Those cost like 50 bucks. Not to mention with the prevalence of telehealth you don't even need to go to a doc in person for something as simple as an ear infection. You can have a virtual visit for $40 where I live, just tell them what's up and they will send the prescription for something simple like ear drops.
@@TheFlyingCougar you're the kind of person who just doesn't listen but guess what that wasn't bullshit because I have many friends who get screwed like that all the time with their health insurance. The system is beyond broken and is only for profit.
Most people on the usa like to blame big corporations like insurance companies without ever blaming the doctors and medical providers who are the ones charging the high fee.
I live in Taiwan where the national health care system has been rated number one in the world the last three years in a row. When you need surgery there is no waiting. The world needs to look into how Taiwan does it.
I live in Sydney and had a colonocopy done years ago in the public hospital referred by a specialist for free. I paid the specialist AU$160.00 as it's not covered by bulk billing.
I am in the UK. Suffered a terrible accident, was basically dead, got airlifted, surgeries, a month and a half in the hospital and a lot of post-surgery care. Not a single pound was charged.
It costed alot but it cost the taxpayers as a whole, better than the US but the downsides are still there as opposed to a system where we all pay for ourselves.
@@ram89572 Same question I asked Ghost-fe1vp...how can you be so dense to not realize that your idea of how the world should work, would plunge it back into the dark ages? Someone has a terrible accident (i.e. not their fault) and your brilliant idea is to have him/her pay for that, in a system where most people live paycheck to-paycheck? Brilliant, just brilliant, I wonder why we ever invented insurance.../s
they don’t want you to he healthy, it’s just clear as a day. i work in the health-care system for france and one thing about them is that they want their population fertile and healthy
I almost never see a bill but when I got one for a trip in an ambulance for 265€ my portion was 10€. '10% of charge but no more than 10€' applied here too.
This stuff makes me so glad. I am very thankful that we have access to high quality care, but it is so crushing to have ridiculously high bills that are unpredictable. It would be one thing if you could get a ballpark estimate of how much things cost beforehand and could compare with other hospitals/care providers. It feels like a complete crapshoot; you never know how much it's going to cost and can never hold anyone accountable for over-charging (or incorrectly charging) you. My oldest son has had 4 or 5 asthma attacks in his life. It always happens on the weekend or in the middle of the night and we have been stuck going to ERs and urgent cares. The price for the same treatment has cost anywhere between $500 and $1200 (the ER wasn't the most expensive time either). We never know what the bill is going to look like, and for a family that doesn't have a whole lot extra it is very hard to fit these expenses into our life.
I don't know where all of you folks are getting this 'we have high quality care' stuff from. Maybe if you're rich you have access to that. But in my experience, the care sucks in this nation.
As a foreigner with health problems, I wanted to visit the US (coming from Norway) and espescially Florida, what kind of tips you have? I will of course have travel insurance, but all serious tips are welcome, thanks. This is one of the scariest thing personally coming to visit the US.
I checked myself into the ER 2 years ago due to bleeding internally. In there 24 hours and my bill was over $30k and my portion was almost $8k. And I had insurance. Also 2 of my children have a genetic disorder and are 100% normal but need IV infusions every 2 weeks to give their body an enzyme theirs doesn’t produce. A biweekly bill is well over $80,000. I lost my job twice due to my impact on the companies insurance program. I get it-my company became a high risk and only 1 company would quote them. His premium went from $900k annually to $2.1 million due to now being high risk.
I live in Canada. I once injured my knee while playing soccer. I went to the hospital and received great care without having to pay a penny. However, I did have to wait an hour or two since other people had more serious injuries. After talking to the doctor, he recommended getting an MRI, which was done within 7 days. Again, I paid zero dollars. The system here is not perfect, but it is certainly fairer and more accessible than in the USA.
I had a traumatic brain injury about 8 months ago. Bill was for over $140,000 but my out of pocket max was $6,700. Still a significant chunk of change. Also have been having to spend almost that much per year with unrelated back problems. New out of pocket max is almost $10,000 now
Did a check-in with my doctor here in Norway (I’m an American expat). Cost to me was $30. In Belgium, it’s even cheaper. Do I get taxes more? Yes. Do I worry about going bankrupt? Never.
We need to figure something out. For so many Americans to be unable to get medical care while we pay billions in tax dollars for wars we didn't agree to is insane
who's "we"? got a mouse in your pocket? vote.
Then vote out the warmongers.
price gouging.
Nothing better than an 18yr old eager little who re.
@facepalm486 stop being afraid.
My mother had a kidney stone that almost killed her and she had to stay in the hospital for about a week. The bill was just over $100K. My family had to file for bankruptcy and it took about a decade to recover from it. One little health issue and you're financially devastated in this country.
America is a joke.
I'd rack up as much debt on every possible credit card I could, take out loans and then move out of the country.
legalize all drugs, get rid of doctor licensure, and turf ownership in hospitals. and abolish the FDA. Remove intellectual property laws. We will then have the least expensive care in the world.
@@kingkong1040 not that easily sadly. youd have to have a good plan to dissappear
@@TheGoreforce or you could just do a mixed or single payer system like most civilized places instead of this ridiculous shit youre saying.
I live in the UK and sure, the NHS has problems. The waiting list for routine procedures is insane, hence private healthcare is getting more popular. However, when you have a major family emergency you know the NHS will always be there and that’s just such a relief. The idea of getting a bill for an air ambulance and major emergency surgery sends a shiver down my spine.
Either way you are paying it with your taxes in the UK...if i am middle class i am paying 40% more in taxes (for me that is 15k in taxes annually), my last bill for a minor surgery was $700 (private insurance paid $30,000)...If i could choose between paying $700 once every 10 years or 15k every year i would choose the former.
If you are poor and do not pay taxes, then obviously the UK system is better for you since someone else is shouldering the burden of taxes to allow you to have that surgery. If you are middle class, USA is the place to be.
@@sew_gal7340 Except the US system is extremely inefficient so the per person spend on healthcare is far higher. Also, your once every 10-year health emergency is likely to cost you an awful lot more than $700. I'm sure that private insurance wasn't cheap.
@@sew_gal7340 The UK Central Government funding for the National Health Service is about £180 billion there are about 67 million people in the UK. A proportion of our taxes called National Insurance goes towards the National Health Service so we pay about £2,800 per person per year for our healthcare for full coverage and no out-of-pocket expenses. I pay 20% tax and you don't pay tax on the first $14,850. As I explained above this includes healthcare full coverage for myself and my family. I have 3 neurological conditions, a congenital heart defect, and a thyroid condition. I had a pregnancy with complications and many other things along the way. I have had decades of treatment and have been under the care of many Specialists and Consultants including a Cardiologist, Cardiothoracic surgeon, Neurologist, Neurosurgeon, Pain Specialist, Audiologist, etc. Decades of MRI/MRA scans, CAT scans, echocardiograms, ECGs, 24-hour heart monitors, surgeries, procedures, doctor call-outs to my home day or night, ambulance call-outs, hospital stays, ER visits, urgent care clinics, physiotherapists, X-rays, broken bones, hearing tests, blood tests, ultrasound scans, antenatal care and postnatal care, and a whole lot more. Not to mention all the healthcare from my Primary Care Doctors, health checks, and annual screenings. The cost to me is £0.
I pick up my repeat prescriptions from my Pharmacy every month and pay £0. Medications are free for many health conditions. Medications are also free to Children under 18, People aged 60 and over, People in education, Unemployed People, Pregnant women and Postpartum, and People who can't work due to illness and disability. For People who do pay for their medications, all prescriptions are £9.65 All forms of birth control are free as are all vaccinations. My parents get their free monthly repeat prescriptions delivered to their home every month for free. I had COVID last year and recovered but still had chest symptoms. I called my Primary Care Doctor in the morning who came out to see me that afternoon during his home visits. He examined me and prescribed a 5-day course of Antibiotics to treat a chest infection the cost to me was £0. My uncle had a heart attack this year and needed a valve replacement after he was discharged from the hospital Specialist Cardiac nurses visited his home daily to aid in his recovery. After being discharged from the hospital women and their newborn babies receive their first 2 weeks of postnatal care at home midwives do daily home visits. Unlike Americans who are restricted by their Network, I am fully covered I can choose and go to any Hospital, Consultant, Specialist, Surgeon, etc in the entire country. If I stopped working tomorrow absolutely nothing regarding my healthcare would change. In the rest of the developed world healthcare is a human right that people have the same access to regardless of whether someone is in employment or not.
The US isn't free market, and the above comment said it correct, government healthcare is expensive low quality prepaid care, the workers are lazier because they get a guaranteed paycheck and they aren't accountable to you the patient. Imagine paying tens of thousands a year into a system and when you finally need it, they treat you like a number, or just offer you medical assisted dying. Chronic Lyme disease will end the cronyism
@@sew_gal7340 in the US you also pay for healthcare with your taxes. It's even higher cost than in the UK if you look at the per capita health spending.
My sister was diagnosed with cancer in her early twenties, before her adult life really started. Now she’s in debt by tens of thousands of dollars. The cancer wasn’t her fault, and she wanted to live, so now she’s stuck with extreme debt for many years to come despite having health insurance.
That's terrible, hope she's ok , all the best
America is sick.
Even when I had health insurance I still managed to accrue roughly $300,000 in medical bills. I literally filed bankruptcy on only medical expenses.
Free market healthcare with health savings account will fix it
@@user-xf3cu4le5z free market as in what we have now that isn't working? Or do you mean something else?
Health Broker here, here are some tips:
1. Unless you are dying, go to Urgent Care. Stay away from Emergency rooms. Urgent care is 1/10 of the price and can offer most procedures up to broken bone.
2. If you are in the emergency room, always ask for the cash price, and then ask the billing office which charities are on file. Many charities will pay portions of medical bills to help those in need it's a huge help.
3.If you have insurance look into an HSA. It can be a huge help in case of emergencies.
The health care system is a scam. Its catered to big business and even ACA plans are horrible. Look into private PPO's and HSA's.
This comment needs to be up much higher...
Finally a constructive comment. Thank you!
@@AbcDino843 The last few sentences contradict half of your posted views on this page. The American health care system is a big business scam. A handful of degenerates are making boatloads of money off of your suffering.
Ah yes, the richest country in the world, where upon going to the ER you have to ask them to pull up the list of charities LMFAO I'm dying
@@dantherman4202 yes, if you happen to need charity. That's essentially what nationalized healthcare is.
My daughter had to be taken to the ER at 1 years old and cost me $60,000 out of pocket after insurance. I just now paid that off after 14 years. This is insane no one should have to deal with a life event like this and the stress of paying what they make in a year.
thats insane.
jeez man. Sorry to hear that. The idea of a situation like that terrifies me
Wtf
AFTER insurance? This is terrifying. Is it really like this in the US or am I missing something?
Just curious, what type of insurance did you have?
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When I was in the US I was shocked at how many commercials they had for drugs. Just constant drug commercials. Unbelieveable
Oh, you noticed that too? We have commercials for everything in the US, even drugs! It's like they're competing for the title of the catchiest side effects. It can be pretty entertaining, I must admit. But hey, at least we know all the potential solutions to our imaginary medical problems now!
Its annoying!
@@Tricia-Tricia 🤣its driving me nuts sometimes i dream of ozempic at night i cant get rid of the song in my head🤣
I work at a health insurance company and let me tell you how depressing it is having to navigate this monster of a system even as a trained professional. I would happily give up my career so that the people I genuinely try to help wouldn’t have to deal with companies like mine anymore
I wish more people were like you. I have a friend who has been a programmer for an insurance company for like 4 or 5 years now. He has automated like 40% of jobs at premera and they are making shit tons more because he brought them into the 21st century. I always joke he works for the worst people ever and should take it all down because he could if he wanted to. That company is a monopoly but when your incentive is a lot of $$$ people will do anything sadly.
The problem is you though, if insurance employees stood up and picketed they would think about change but you make it possible for them to gouge citizens
Everybody I ever talk to in the insurance sounds as exacerbated, frustrated, and confused as I am when I call them for help. Insurance in America is a frucker clust.
@@Girtharmstrong69 That is not really true. They would outsource the jobs to some poor foreign country to do the same thing. And because those people are starving and need to work, they would gladly screw over Americans for a chance at a better life.
@@Girtharmstrong69 him and the workers aren’t the problem it’s the fact that it’s part of the law which he has no control over. Hence it’s the government fucking shit up once again and here you are blaming this guy who agrees with everyone that the system is shit
I had a 10 minute CT scan, saw a physicians assistant (never a doctor) for approx 15 minutes, bill was $8000 of which we had to pay $2400. Knowing this I honestly wouldn’t have gone to the ER, didn’t really want to but I feared I might have broken a hip after falling 12 ft off a ladder. Our medical system is a joke, people have creditors hounding them, often go bankrupt, and for decades we have acted like this is normal.
Medical bankruptcy is one of the most inflated claims in the US to generate hype for political purposes, while not having a very significant influence on bankruptcy filings. Bankruptcy filings are a result of multiple factors, and medical bills are nowhere near the top factor according to all the data I have studied. For starters, Elizabeth Warren’s cherry-picked study went to 2005, where there were only 1.45 million bankruptcies filed in the whole US including Chapter 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15. Only Ch 13 is for wage-earners, while Ch 15 represented the largest % of filings. The study expanded the parameters to include if people had missed 2 weeks of work due to sickness, had medical bills over $1000, and mortgaged their home to pay for bills.
If bankruptcy filers fell into those categories, it was listed as "bankruptcy due to medical expenses", even if that wasn’t true. That’s less than half a percent of the overall population who even filed for bankruptcy. By adding those parameters, they fudged the data to indicate that 61% of the filers filed because of medical expenses.
Another study in 2011 found that only 26% of Ch 13 filers said medical expenses played a role.
Some studies said 57.1% while others said more people filed bankruptcy for medical expenses than overall bankruptcy filings, which is egregiously flawed. Not only can’t all Ch 13 filers be due to medical expenses, but Ch 13 can’t exceed all of the types of Chapter filings due to the dominance of corporate and foreign businesses filing bankruptcy each year. Ch 13 is only 27-38% of bankruptcy filings each year.
Another thing is that personal bankruptcies are not a constant Y2Y. Personal bankruptcies peaked in 2010 at over 434,000 after the financial crisis, then dropped dramatically down to around 299,000 in 2016, 289,000 in 2019, and 194,000 in 2020.
Chapter 13 Bankruptcies in US Year to Year
2008: 353k
2009: 398k
2010: 434.8k
2011: 417k
2012: 375k
2013: 343k
2014: 313k
2015: 302k
2016: 299k
2017: 296k
2018: 288k
2019: 289k
2020: 194k
2021: 117.7k
2022: 149k (.05% of the US population)
Anytime someone presents a claim, automatically question whether that claim is even accurate, then do the research and understand the basic math. In the case of medical bankruptcy, it’s an extremely inflated piece of hype used by proponents of massive change to the overall US system, with no numbers to support it. It’s sensationalist hype really.
Damn, 10 minutes of CT scans? That's like a couple of atomic bombs going off in your body giving you harmful radiation.
@@LRRPFco52 according to a 2019 study published in AJPH, 66.5% of all bankruptcy filings were due to medical issues. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found.
@@LRRPFco52 Not really the main point but I apologize if that term was misleading, I'm sure your figures are correct. The main thrust of my post was the absurdity of medical costs and the stress it places on Americans, financially and emotionally.
@@skatetoexplorevideos2477 LOL 10 minutes in the room, maybe 15 seconds of scan. Thanks for the laugh, that was funny.
I fell and broke 2 ribs early this year; went to my local ER, they did a general X-Ray of my chest cavity and confirmed I had to broke/cracked ribs. The ER doc said there is really nothing we can do, go home and take it easy. A few weeks later I received a bill from the ER hospital for $25,500.00 USD. I'm uninsured, no health care, and unemployed. I was devastated. Our health care system is broke, and people like me need help with getting insurance. It's borderline criminal to charge $25k for a 30 minute ER visit.
Dude, just don’t pay it. Don’t stress on it just don’t pay lol. Fuck all that shit
@@Bigf00t100as a single man I agree but for people with families that’s a little too tricky. I have no idea how much I owe those bastards but all I know is that those billing envelopes make pretty good kindling for my little campfires.
Just pay like $10 a month and if they try to push you, just tell them that’s all you have
@@ThePalmettoProletarian I get it. Trust me but in all honesty how I’m the hell is anyone going to pay off 20-30k I’m debt. That’s some people’s yearly salary. When I got COVID, I had lost my job along with my insurnace and needed to go to ER. All they did was a simple blood withdrawal and told
Me to go home and take Tylenol. Was there for like 3 hours TOTAL. Nothing major. Got the bill a few weeks later 22k. I literally laughed and threw it away and never paid it. They sent me some collection shit a few times but overall they just stopped coming. This ain’t the first time I’ve neglected hospital bills, sue me. I don’t have shit and I’m not about to spend my life and energy making money to pay off this ridiculous bill. That’s outrages. The system is broken, don’t sweat it man, just ignore it and don’t pay. Luckily it doesn’t affect your credit so it’s cool
That’s like 20 bucks here in Taiwan lol
The worst part is that quality of healthcare here is not actually that good. We have some of the best docs in the world, but the average clinician available outside of major institutions is actually pretty substandard compared to other developed nations. Overspecialization too early in training means docs have very limited areas of expertise compared to count that require years of working as junior doctors before specializing.
46th in life expectancy.....makes you wonder what we pay so much for if the health care service doesn't even really keep people alive.
@MaxB that's not the fault of Healthcare, that's the fault of some 50% of Americans gorging themselves with food.
@@sowososmooth False. The USA ranks 54th in Healthcare Quality. We have the most deaths caused by Drs. We are the highest in infant mortality in the industrial world!
We are 12th in cancer treatment.
@Trevor Dylan Absolutely none of that addressed the very serious obesity epidemic within the US or even tried to compare the number of medical fatalities to the number of deaths caused by excessive over eating. Try again.
@@sowososmooth Your point was 100% false. You made an objectively false, and incredibly stupid comment. I corrected you by showing how Healthcare quality is the reason Americans die.
Educate yourself if it embarrassed you.
I am an ER doc- here are the reason - out of the 125K patients that comes through an ER, only small percent can pay. so what they do is take the cost of running the ED and charge it to the people who can actually pay. in Med school and residency- we are taught to fix broken bodies. not prevent illness enough. lastly but mostly- we over treat, over test and over diagnose- because people love to sue and we have no option but to try to find everything wrong with you regardless of what is causing the issue. it is rotten.
Do the people that cannot pay go bankrupt?
Wouldn't more be able to pay if the price represented the cost of treatment?
Continually raising prices because only a small percentage can pay will only continue to make the system worse. Hospitals are a business focused on profits, and profits are made from acute health problems.
Our medical system is not focused on prevention, but as you said, fixing broken bodies. We need a total overhaul that isn't so focused on bottom-line profits.
Preventing 1,000 people from getting cancer brings in a lot less money than treating 1,000 people with cancer via hospitalized treatments, for example.
Not painting you personally as the enemy, but this is just my perspective.
ALWAYS ask any nurse, doctor or staff who set one foot in your hospital room if they are "in your network"?
If not they WILL take your house and every $ you have. I have seen it first hand. Be vigilant....
@@hugosalinasaliaga5266 homeless people don’t file bankruptcy. At my ER, almost every night a whole wing gets flooded with homeless who will make up any and all illnesses to have a place to stay for the night. 35 bed ER, at least 10 beds a night are homeless. Someone’s paying for those beds, and it ain’t them.
My dad had an 11 mile trip in a ambulance from hospital to home for hospice. I got the bill for the ambulance ride this week and it was $7300. His health insurance denied the bill because it wasn’t a medically needed trip. He passed away 30 hours after coming home.
Wtf
A couple of years ago I went to one of those emergency clinics because I started having intense lower back pain and didn't have insurance. They said we think you have a kidney stone you need to go to the ER. The hospital was a block away. You could see it from the clinic. They put me in an ambulance for 5 minutes to the ER and it was $1600.00.
I was seeing this Finnish girl who told me about her ex's grandma, who lived in a town near the Norwegian border. One day she needed an emergency trip to the hospital, so a nearby Norwegian hospital sent her a helicopter and it was either free or something like 30 dollars (in Norwegian currency). Here in the US, we'd rather spend our money bombing brown people and playing with our toys in the sand, as late George Carlin said, may he rest in peace.
Please tell me u didn’t pay it since he died there after. Especially since it wasn’t your bill in the first place.
@@nosawggg isn't medical debt passed down to children?
Joe this issue needs to be discussed more often and in more detail because it is such a serious problem - people need to know!
You're absolutely right, this issue 😔 does require more attention and thorough discussions. It's important to raise awareness and ensure that people are aware of the seriousness of the problem! 💪🌍
People already know the system sucks. No'one is willing to stand up to better it.
Until recently, I was working from home doing customer service for a huge health insurance company called Centene. I knew healthcare in the USA was not in good shape and still it was a huge eye opener. I stuck it out for over a year but just could not continue. So horrible. It has nothing to do with health or care. Something needs to change.
5 years ago I was admitted to a local hospital for 24 hours, and the bill - just for the hospital room itself (no meds, scans, Dr's, techs, etc. included) was 25K. For. A. Hospital. Room.
Yay capitalism! Those hospital/insurance execs are laughing at us.
dont pay it, I wont...out of principle (but I can't afford my medical bills either....and im only 28)
@@svyatoyaleksnevskiy If you think the hospital system, or anything for that matter, operates on the economics of capitalism than you might be a dumb Russian.
I agree with the other comments. F paying that Bs. If anything pay them a $5 dollars a month.
God bless America lol
I'm a young man who does well for himself. Own a house etc. Had my first child and at the time I was paying about 500 dollars a month for health care for just my wife. This is a ton of money for me. For what I thought was a solid plan. I walked out with over 10k in medical bills for my child which was a straight forward 0 complications birth. It was scary.
You shouldn't never taken that job dude. What do you do for a living?
@Chris Lyle rather not get personal here but know that this was private health care. I work in a freelance industry in nyc that generally doesn't have great benefits. Also my wife does not work.
>not having kids 😂
Also gotta understand the hospital bill was likely what 5x that? Even your $500 a month won't touch $50,000 for quite a long time 😂... Insurance isn't the issue, cost of Healthcare is
you can thank the 'AFFORDABLE care act' for your great options on the open market. Your choices: high premiums and high deductible, or nothing
I've had 6 MRIs over the past 5 years (New Zealand and th UK) for a benign but growing tumor, culminating in Cyberknife radiotherapy in November. Sure I pay a portion of my salary in national insurance here in the UK, but it's really miniscule given I'll get access to any needed treatment without additional cost. Our system is being brought to it's knees by political neglect and it isn't perfect but I'm grateful we have access to such great treatment without fear of financial ruin.
The UK shits on NZ's health system. Our health system is falling over fast.
When I was in Grad school, we worked to offer health insurance thru the school and students (most were off-campus) in grad school didn’t want it because of the additional premium costs. I subsequently rolled my ankle and had to go to ER (thought it broke) and had X-rays done. My bill? $1,800. Also, good luck finding prices of any healthcare services and try to “shop around” for MRI’s, XRays, etc. it’s absolutely insane
I completely understand your frustration. The costs associated with healthcare in the US can be overwhelming and difficult to navigate. It's unfortunate that many students choose to forego health insurance due to the additional premium costs, only to find themselves facing hefty bills when unexpected medical situations arise. Additionally, the lack of transparency in pricing for healthcare services, such as MRI's and X-rays, makes it extremely challenging for individuals to make informed decisions and seek affordable options. The system definitely needs some improvement to ensure more accessible and affordable healthcare for everyone.
My dad had prostate issues- surgery in US with months wait time was around 36k-40k and he went to Mexico and around 3k and minimal wait time. Great doctors and no issues afterwards!
legalize all drugs, get rid of doctor licensure, and turf ownership in hospitals. and abolish the FDA. Remove intellectual property laws. We will then have the least expensive care in the world.
Why do we compare ourselves to just Canada? Why not France or Italy, which have been rated number one (or top 3) a number of times.
The problem here is the focus is for-profit and not care. Look up “dollar bill” McGuire, he made billions and paid his employees bonuses to find ways not to pay for people’s care (even life saving care that was needed).
Also we aren’t number one in quality, that all depends on what specific care we are talking about but often we aren’t.
was the trip to mexico included in the 3k?
My dad had that and the military took care of it for free because he was a retired military veteran. However, Clinton and Obama cannibalized military benefits so if dad was still alive, he would have had to pay.
@@GhostSal Health care in Japan is stellar. If I recall correctly, $25 per month covers everything including major surgery. I have several Japanese relatives and they are appalled at the health care costs in the U.S.
I haven't been to a doctor in almost 23 years...if something happens and I get sick or hurt, I'll just die.
How I feel
Aye
Like the 'olden' days
The more I see the results of people who turn themselves over to the medical system, I think you’ll be better off not going to the doctor……
@@jetsengoytredkl I agree! I was a CENA for 16 years. I saw alot.
I work in the industry and I see it on the inside every day - hospitals drive up the costs (then play a guilt trip reputation war in the media when insurance companies ask them to come down on prices during negotiations).
In the auto world, you turn the mechanic's bill into the insurance company and they pay you out directly....no insurance interfacing with the mechanic...
However in the medical world, the hospital is legally allowed to negotiate a price with the insurer that is substantially higher than the cash price they'd quote the patient directly.
Advice from an insider:
1. Control the health outcomes you can control (diet, exercise, alcohol, tobacco, sleep).
2. Open an HSA and auto-transfer $100/month into it every month for life.
3. Ask for the cash price and itemized bill for all planned services not guaranteed to be covered 100% by your insurance plan (example: outpatient surgeries like an appendix removal) before presenting proof of insurance.
4. Before the procedure and if your HSA funds can cover the cash price, present the bill to your insurance company YOURSELF and ask them to guarantee reimbursement (after you pay the cash price) according to your insurance plan (they will because they're saving money).
5. Pay cash to the hospital and await direct reimbursement from your insurer.
.
.
.
Insurance is meant for catastrophic events, not everyday maintenance. All Joe's guest had to do was follow the above steps (in fact, if he can pay a couple thousand for colonoscopies, he can ask for and pay the lower cash price for a blood test and IV bag easily), and he'd have probably only been out a few hundred bucks? Maybe a bit more?
Fight fire with fire - don't let the hospitals go behind your back a drive up your insurance costs. It's not going to doctors and nurses; it's going to hospital CFOs.
Very good discussion discussing the pro and cons of both Canada and us health systems. I live in Canada and the wait times are absolutely atrocious. I can't even book a visit with my family doctor til like a month away. And the logic goes, if it's urgent, go to emergency. Well a lot of issues aren't urgent but requires medical attention somewhat within the week and there's nothing we can do. I don't see any reason why private health care should be banned when it will alleviate wait times to everyone involved. I know the concept of jumping the wait line with money is a bit of an ethical dilemma, but the end result is both sides gets lower wait times. People have to see the forest and not just the trees here.
Absolute bullshit. My mom was a Dr in Toronto. My wife is from Canada. Also I have read the WHO reports. The average wait time in Canada compared to US for surgery is 9 days Canada 8 days USA.
@@Yourmomshousemyrules It's not absolute bullshit, healthcare in Canada is all about waiting lists. For serious immediately-needed surgery maybe you can get in quick, but god forbid you get sick. I've been on waiting list after waiting to get into a sleep study for about a year now. I'm basically not sleeping at all and can't function during the day whatsoever because I wake up choking many times a night but the system doesn't see it as urgent. All specialists have minimum several-month waiting lists and once you get in, they usually do some incredibly half-assed 3 minute lookover and send you back out the door with no answers and you have to make another appointment with your GP where he puts you on another many-month waiting list (sometimes to see the very same unhelpful specialist again). I'm 26. I have had as-yet undiagnosed chronic health problems since I was a child, which have prevented me from finishing school, getting a job, or even having a basic social life. (This was greatly worsened by the two shots I got in 2021, which is a huge problem because our healtcare system is incredibly resistant to even acknowledge that possibility, so even talking about my health problems with professionals is a constant uphill battle.) I've spent basically my whole life on waiting lists and never getting any real answers about my health problems in between. (And plenty of wrong answers/psychiatric pill pushing which made things worse.) The only doctor who has started to make any real progress with my health problems is a private naturopath which my parents started paying thousands of dollars for over the past year.
TL:DR it's nice that kinetic injuries are dealt with cheaply and quickly in Canada but everything else that you might want from healthcare is pretty much a write-off. A mirage intended to make healthy people think there will be help if they ever get sick.
@@Yourmomshousemyrules right that’s why BC cancer patients are being shipped to Seattle
@@cerebralm "I have a litany of health problems, so I went to a pseudo doctor instead of getting a genetics test"
Move, then. Go be with the Americans.
You can't work but mommy and daddy can fork out money for you. Must be nice. Most of us can't leave even if we wanted to.
The moment you open the gates for private enterprises to get a piece of the pie, that’s when prices start to go up and not just for the private sector but for everybody.
I live in Vietnam and the differences in cost and efficiency is jaw dropping.
I can walk into an mri center, have it performed, read and given to me to bring to my doctor. The cost? Around 75 to -100 dollars.
Drug prices? Pennies to dollars
Eye care? Guy on the street does the exam, makes the lens and I pick the frame - 2 hour procedure and costs around 50 - 75 dollars.
I will not be moving back anytime soon.
Lmao lucky bastard
Same with Taiwan
Same in India
These SE nations are not the 3rd world countries many Americans look down upon, but America itself in many areas resembles 3rd world. Great move. We too call SE Asia our second home
Average salary in Vietnam is $18k, compared to $50k in America. That applies to everything else like housing costs.
A huge part of the issue is that doctors don't run hospitals anymore. Hospitals have boards and C-Suites. The insurance system is also a racket.
Agree, the erosion of societal values in this country is partially to blame, along with corrupt govt and corporatism. Those things have greatly distorted the industry, and led to todays corporate culture of profits before people in medical.
Why would doctors run the hospital? If doctors run the hospitals, who is going to treat patients? It’s like saying how come astronauts don’t run NASA? Btw the hospital I go to is run by MD who is now the CEO and is no better or worst than any other hospital.
@@nepaliyuva408 He's saying that doctors do not make care decisions as they used to. Instead, they are now made by business executives who are not connected to the people, treatments, or medical decisions. Our healthcare system in America isn't even a free market like some claim - it's heavily restricted corporatism supported by the government. So no one faces any real consequences for their bad corporate decisions. It's why almost every industry has worse quality. Those corporatist types are vultures who rarely add value.
@@scratchpenny recently my mother passed away after 1.5 year battle with terminal
Illness. We went through multiple hospitals and multiple doctors and at no point hospital executives were part of any decision making in terms of her care. At high level I can see they are making business decision but that should be no different in any point in time in history. Provide data that shows hospitals executives are making more decisions today than in the past in terms of treatments. Hospitals are businesses at the end of the day. Businessman should run business and doctors should treat patients. Politicians should do politics.
Last businessman that tried politics is indicted of paying off porn star.
High costs have less to do with insurance companies than health care providers themselves. In any other industry, its illegal to charge different rates for the same testing and procedures, purely depending on the customer. Instead, we have hospitals who will charge as much money as each health insurance company can afford. Thats the racket. And hospitals are able to hide this by claiming that the prices they charge each individual health insurance company are TRADE SECRETS. The stupidity of this argument is beyond belief, and the only thing worse is that politicians accept that dumb legal argument in exchange for regular political donations. Every single hospital and health care institution should be legally required to disclose publicly what they charge everyone, so that insurance companies stop being overcharged, which just leads to the insurance companies passing the costs onto policy holders.
One of the huge problems I see is lack of information for consumers. If you as a patient wish to know how much health care costs before you make a decision about who to seek care from, or whether to seek care, there is a huge an deliberate obscuring of what health care costs. If you ask how much a VERY common procedure cost out of pocket (my experience was a hernia surgery), nobody knows. It's buried in some code and evaluated by some automated AI system for approval or denial of coverage. Free markets ONLY work without barriers to information between consumers and providers. So this necessarily needs to be a publicly administered societal benefit.
I live in Europe and from 2006 to 2015 I was working for a billing company that works with hospitals and helping them billing patients...I was amazed and could hardly believe that for a regular exam... simple stuff , you had a cold or anything simple and the bill for that was around 8time higher than where I live...amazing...another thing is you actually need to pay if you call an ambulance! Mesmerizingly out of control
in Europe ???? not true !!!!
@@elmadehner i was in europe the company was based in Anchorage but we worked w hospitals all around the us
@@lipcsaiify Anchorage, Alaska
where in Europe ???I am in Germany, in Hospitals, you may be paying 10 euros per Day , if you call an Ambulance also 10 euros or nothing if is ....heart attack or life life-threatening issue.
All other exams and treatments are paid for by health insurance.
Private Insurence is little diffrent
where in europe@@lipcsaiify
Went to Portugal on vacation. My son fell and needed stitches on his chin. We went to a private clinic, paid 56 Euros. Total. Blew my mind. That would have cost $2K in the U.S. with insurance. It was then I knew we were getting ripped off.
If you’d been a European citizen that bill would have been 10 euros.
In India, that would easily be done within 5 dollars
Then factor in paying insurance $500 a month just for the privilege of having access to healthcare. The healthcare act in the US is a scam that was somehow made law.
Required to pay for health insurance? What the actual?
Meanwhile, in socialist countries like the UK, you can get cancer treatment for next to nothing.
Oh well. The US needs to pay for all those drones and aircraft carrier battle groups somehow.
The public health care in Portugal is dogsht, I'm portuguese. Some people die while waiting for a measly appointment. More than half of our population has a private health insurance plan because they don't trust the public health system
Sorry I’m not American and I’m from a country with universal healthcare so this idea is honestly hard for me to grasp. But one question, how the effing even with insurance that you still have to pay that much in America? Then what is the point of being insured then 😭
The amount Healthcare costs is criminal.
Healthcare costs are high as a result of government interference in the market.
So, yes.
Our medical system owned by American Oligarchs in search of outsized profits...
@@docsavage8640 You obviously didn't watch the video where they clearly state why the costs are so high. Corporate greed. Obviously we need more government to interfere.
@@Jamesmyboy1 we know why they're so high. Americans are unhealthy and the private side has to subsidize the public side
@@Jamesmyboy1 do you really want the same government that manages the post office in charge of your medical care???
Same thing happened to me. I was at the outpatient endoscopy center for less than two hours to get my colonoscopy and they billed my insurance $4500. I had met my deductible, so my portion was $1500. Still a lot of money. The way they justify these prices is because the facility is owned by a hospital, so they bill at is if you were getting in patient care.
My family and I moved to Mexico. In 2021 my got covid. We called a doctor for a house call. We messaged him maybe at 9:30 pm. He got to our house in the countryside in about an hour with a nurse and stayed for 1.5 hours while he administered an IV. He charged us $150USD. Getting basic care here has been so affordable because there are no crazy mark ups.
I have a friend; an interpreter; who worked all over the world. He got to a point where he was coming to the US less and less, as he was afraid he would get sick or injured there, and anywhere else in the world he would get free healthcare. He said many workers and experts in other countries were afraid of going to the US for the same reasons. Oh, and they were SO confused how the show Breaking Bad was possible, because in any other country Walter White would have simply gone to the Dr for free treatment.
Kind of doubt you can just walk in and get treated as a foreigner. In Canada for example I don't even think you are covered across provincial lines. You definitely won't be covered if you are a foreigner visiting Canada.
@@ancillarity Treatment is free for anyone that needs it in most developed countries. No questions asked; just walk in.
Foreign dignitaries, members of parliaments, wealthy, and even cartel bosses come to the US for procedures they can't get in their countries.
Your post sounds like some propaganda from a Russian bot farm, to be honest.
I and my family have gotten Healthcare or procedures in the US and Europe. Public NHS in Germany, Finland, Sweden is trash so if you want fast results, you go to the private sector there and pay $100/15 minutes, otherwise you wait in the public hospitals forever.
@@kcw1879 you are so naive lol
I have an American friend who worked in England. After several visits to a hospital, and many misdiagnoses, she was finally diagnosed with cancer. The doctor told her to go back to the states where she had a chance to survive. "Free" unfortunately has a cost and impacts quality.
I was forced by paramedics to go to the hospital when I said I would be fine, but they said I had to go and be observed for 4 hours or they could be liable, I was placed on a stretcher in the hallway and a doctor came by one time and asked me 3 questions then left and I never saw him again. No one spoke to me again until they said I could leave. I received a bill totaling $3043.67. I received absolutely no treatment of any kind, just sat in the hallway and answered 3 questions. The doctor that asked the three questions charged $1453.00. Don't even know what the rest of the bill was for. Luckily I was able to receive some help through the county I live in but I still had to pay over $1500 out of pocket. There is no logic to it at all, they just make up numbers so they can get rich.
I had the same type of situation I got a 3k bill for just laying there with a really bad stomach pain I paid them NOTHING and never will it’s been 13 years the hospital I went to shut down
Wow that’s ridiculous. I wouldn’t pay for that. If anything I’d send them $1-5 dollars a month. Also you didn’t have to go. They lied to you. I’m pretty sure they can’t force you to do anything. Unless, you were going to harm yourself or others. Otherwise, they need a court order to take you to the hospital.
Can you prove you were forced?
The numbers are super made up . That's also why it is so hard to get a price before hand too. I never understand how that is legal. Ive had offices tell me and this is knowing what insurance i have that we dont know but youll get a bill after its billed..... Bitch i need to know now cuz i need to know if im gonna be able to afford food for the next 5 months or not
This almost happened to my mother when I was growing up. My older brother told them we would press criminal charges for kidnapping if they took her. She was fully conscious and protesting. They acquiesced and backed off when he said that.
This happened to me when I had to take my kid to the ER for a fever I couldn't control. At the time I didn't know ibuprofen and Tylenol could be used together as they dont conflict with one another. We waited 4 hours, they gave my kid Tylenol and ibuprofen, and they charged insurance over $7,000, $2,700 of which we had to pay out of pocket.
That's the saddest story I have heard so far! In China, a fever won't make you bankrupt nor would minor injuries. However, cancer would make you bankrupt. I couldn't believe that the healthcare system in America is so shocking! 😢
Wow. What you described in the beginning costs less than $20 here. I don't even bother with insurance since private Healthcare is so cheap (went for an mri, was inside the machine within 25 minutes, cost $90).
I've been in Healthcare for nearly 30 years. He is dead on, and it is disgusting. A serious diagnosis almost comes along with bankruptcy.
Disgusting.
I was recently in India and my left wrist had been bothering me for a while. Decided to call up an orthopedic specialist(yeah can directly do that instead of needing a referral like in US), made an appointment for the same day.
During appointment, got his consultation. Doc said, I needed to get an X-ray. Got the X-ray, he gave me his conclusion and next steps. All this in span of 2hrs and cost of less than $20 (consultation + X-Ray)
And this wasn't some shop in a ditch, this was a reputed hospital in big city like Bangalore
Isn't that how is supposed to be though. That's how it works here in KSA too
@@whodidit5761 I think they’re talking about the cost. Yes we can do this but most people CAN’T and WON’T bc of the costs.
@@trippinatormachine Exactly, but that's the point. The actual cost is practically nothing, but what we are charged is outrageous.
My chiropractor is where I go if I need an xray. 60 bucks for a series of 6 x-rays. The Urgent Care 260!
@@Yourmomshousemyrules Right that’s my bad. I should have been more clear. Thats what I meant when I said “cost”, the actual amount they charge you.
Similar experiences in Taiwan & Thailand
I moved to Poland several years back & there is a mix of BOTH private & public healthcare here. Everyone has public healthcare, but employers offer private insurance as an extra benefit of working at a certain company. When I had really bad food poisoning & needed fluids, but it was difficult for me to leave my house, a nurse made a house call & gave me the fluids I needed to start feeling better. This was part of the private insurance plan. The public plan wouldn't do anything like this. I used this service once again when I got shitfaced & was so hungover that I couldn't get out of bed.
People’s lives are absolutely ruined by this. It can happen at any time to anyone, and it’s beyond sad.
no doubt
but muricans have guns to defend against the evil goverment.... looool
Medical bankruptcy is one of the most inflated claims in the US to generate hype for political purposes, while not having a very significant influence on bankruptcy filings. Bankruptcy filings are a result of multiple factors, and medical bills are nowhere near the top factor according to all the data I have studied. For starters, Elizabeth Warren’s cherry-picked study went to 2005, where there were only 1.45 million bankruptcies filed in the whole US including Chapter 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15. Only Ch 13 is for wage-earners, while Ch 15 represented the largest % of filings. The study expanded the parameters to include if people had missed 2 weeks of work due to sickness, had medical bills over $1000, and mortgaged their home to pay for bills.
If bankruptcy filers fell into those categories, it was listed as "bankruptcy due to medical expenses", even if that wasn’t true. That’s less than half a percent of the overall population who even filed for bankruptcy. By adding those parameters, they fudged the data to indicate that 61% of the filers filed because of medical expenses.
Another study in 2011 found that only 26% of Ch 13 filers said medical expenses played a role.
Some studies said 57.1% while others said more people filed bankruptcy for medical expenses than overall bankruptcy filings, which is egregiously flawed. Not only can’t all Ch 13 filers be due to medical expenses, but Ch 13 can’t exceed all of the types of Chapter filings due to the dominance of corporate and foreign businesses filing bankruptcy each year. Ch 13 is only 27-38% of bankruptcy filings each year.
Another thing is that personal bankruptcies are not a constant Y2Y. Personal bankruptcies peaked in 2010 at over 434,000 after the financial crisis, then dropped dramatically down to around 299,000 in 2016, 289,000 in 2019, and 194,000 in 2020.
Chapter 13 Bankruptcies in US Year to Year
2008: 353k
2009: 398k
2010: 434.8k
2011: 417k
2012: 375k
2013: 343k
2014: 313k
2015: 302k
2016: 299k
2017: 296k
2018: 288k
2019: 289k
2020: 194k
2021: 117.7k
2022: 149k (.05% of the US population)
Anytime someone presents a claim, automatically question whether that claim is even accurate, then do the research and understand the basic math. In the case of medical bankruptcy, it’s an extremely inflated piece of hype used by proponents of massive change to the overall US system, with no numbers to support it. It’s sensationalist hype really.
Stop voting for right wing policy and conservative/republican politicians, because they will ruin your country.
@@LRRPFco52 stop spammign this bs around acing how much u know about thing. its like joe rogan. focus on totally wrong points
I got paralyzed from the neck down in 2020 at the age of 21. After about four months in the hospital my bill was $1.3 million. Thank God my mom has good insurance.
So sorry you had to go through that man
That’s bullshit
1.3 is crazy
How much was it after insurance?
Would've been a hell of a lot cheaper without insurance.
I live in Canada, Toronto to be specific.
last year I waited almost 6 months for a dermat’s appointment.
In Quebec, you can consult a doctor in the day by calling early for booking. Most of the time, doc will see you the same day a few hours later. You pay around a hundred suscription for a year plus 75$ each consultation in that same year.
The insurance companies are the enemy. Doctors salaries have not increased, while the cost of med school has drastically increased.
Doctor salaries have actually decreased directly due to less reimbursement from insurance companies and indirectly from inflation. Insurance companies, administrators and policy makers are a huge problem. None of these parties deliver care but leach off the system, driving up costs.
It's also the lawyers. We need medical legal reform. You have to limit what can be sued for and how much. Otherwise, you have these emotional settlement decisions raising costs to astronomical levels.
@scratchpenny I kind of agree until you draw it to extremes. Let's take a look at government Healthcare in America. The doctor doesn't get sued, just a tort claim against the government. Aka tax dollars pay for the doctors malpractice. I understand people wanting some form of socialized medicine, I'm just not sold. I understand being able to afford good Healthcare makes me biased. One of the things I like/liked(slowly changing) was the meritocracy of America. Was/is it perfect no? But it was/is pretty damn desirable for people who wanted the best
I call bullshit…..insurance companies and our politicians are the biggest reasons for our incredible price structure.
And countless administrators padding their salary.
My 3mo old son went to ER for fever (he had COVID) - because the nurses said was a very urgent emergency. I knew it was a waste of time, and he could be treated with low dose Tylenol, but whatever - my wife made us go. Then they said they need to complete a spinal tap to rule out meningitis. I said he has COVID, it's a positive test, and he caught it from my wife. Then they implied I was harming the child if I refused to allow a spinal tap. They pressured my wife but I declined. They then called some social services moron who no joke started lecturing me about child abuse. FYI - the risks of a botched spinal tap on a 3mo old is paralysis so I stated this and told them he has COVID, it's not needed. After arguing with everyone and the moron social service worker they sent him home with Tylenol. He recovered in about 20mins and that was it. 2weeks later they sent CPS round for an evaluation (nothing happened). Turns out major hospitals (Bostons Children's) discontinued spinal taps on COVID infants and the hospital in question was behind the curve. They sent CPS round to my house because their dumb procedures were outdated and I was right all along. Also - a neighbor had the exact same issue - they went ahead with the spinal tap and it cost the insurance company $9,000 for procedure and labs. AND they paid $3k out of pocket. And the kid had transient paralysis of lower limbs. Luckily he recovered. What a bunch of morons
Wow, frightening
Your child is very lucky to have a father like you
Just stab my spine bro
you're a good and vigilant father. That hospital probably knew about the spinal tap guidance but were doing it anyway to milk insurance $$$. Happens all the time in healthcare--they run the gamut of expensive and unnecessary tests
Consider reporting them to your state medical board
I went to the ER a few years ago and they did like two tests and the bill was over $14k. Recently went to the hospital again and my bill after insurance was almost $5k. Both times they never figured what was wrong with me. Not to mention as a self employed person my insurance is over $700 a month. It's insane.
Holy frick? We are lucky here in canada
@@fergalfarrelly8545 we just need to figure a balance between affordability and quality.
@@fergalfarrelly8545 ehh your system still has its disadvantages.
@@diyside Americans don't want that because that's socialism.
That's crazy. I was just at a clinic in S Korea and was kinda mad I paid so much for my IV and blood test: around 50 bucks. I went because I have a cold. I was out in less than 2 hours; one of those hours was lying in a bed and getting my IV. People here go for a runny nose because it is so efficient and affordable. The national health insurance is compulsive and is a wealth tax, so the richest people in Korea will be paying tens of thousands of dollars a month, while a middle class family of 5 will pay maybe 500 bucks.
my favorite thing that blew my mine was when they showed the prices of the same procedure at several different hospitals in a city/state. One hospital would charge $200 and another would charge $2000.
Free market capitalism, baby.
I can totally relate. Ive had two shoulder surgeries but I still get frequent dislocations. Unfortunately, I sometimes need to go to the ER because I can’t pop it back in myself. When I go, I’m usually in and out in 30 minutes. No IVs, no anesthesia, nothing. Just a doctor moving my shoulder around for a few minutes until it pops back in.
My last ER visit cost me $3,000 AFTER INSURANCE!!! Why even have insurance at that point. This is insane and possibly the biggest problem in America.
Without a doubt. There’s no justification for what we are getting charged for this shit. I spend $7000 a year on insurance for myself and my daughter and have to spend $6000 before it kicks in. I could drive a fucking Porsche for what I pay these cocksuckers. How this country hasn’t burned down the White House in relation to this is beyond me.
Insurance is a ridiculous concept. It's nothing but an excuse to inflate price. You get rid of the insurance system tomorrow, all services will suddenly be billed at operating cost which would 100% be affordable to just about everyone.
The rich have health insurance. We don’t. Yet we pay what we only have, so we can never go after them.
Find a good chiropractor. One that can take you in an emergency as well. Much cheaper than the ER.
@@aPpiknik I didn't know chiropractors take emergencies
I also had to have some bloodwork done last year.. and it was not covered by insurance.. the administration costs were.. 12 euros.. and the bloodwork was 15 euros.. then, there was a post stamp costs... I got a bill for 30 euros..
Years ago I had a surgery. My insurance refused to cover the anesthesia because the Anesthesiologist was out of network. I met this individual while I was getting prepped for surgery. Was I supposed to ask each person I see if they were in network? I remind everyone I know, whether it's car, health, home, whatever; private insurance companies maximize their shareholder return by finding ways to not pay for what you need.
If you do your research and challenge the cost, they will drop the bill dramatically. More often than not people just pay (or don't). I have been a nurse for 20 years and know what should be done and what most tests cost.
For instance, my year old daughter was suctioned in the ER and they charged us 8k for respiratory life savings measures. I harassed the hospital for an itemized bill, looked up the ICD codes and challenged them. The actual cost for treatment rendered was around $80. Due to my challenge, the bill was dropped completely.
Aside from billing errors, simples tests are marked up to exaggerate the price of care rendered. This is usually without the knowledge or consent of the treating physician.
A CBC doesn't cost $500 but if they can get away with it...they will.
Deep pockets have no heart.
Congrats, you shoveled the cost of treatment onto others
Imagine if we had some kind of regulatory body that actually functioned and reigned in fraud and abuse against consumers by large corporations. Oh well, maybe some day.
My US friend said the same, but having to negotiate and worry about the cost at such a time with a loved one is, insane and wrong
It's just as easy, if you want a treatment, get a doctor degree and get your treatment on your own. Saves alot of money
Or they could put a lien on your home
I was hospitalized for a recurring issue overseas (Philippines), my bill for 6 days was less than $4000 usd. This included ER trip, room, meds, xrays, and cat scans. I was in a private room and received the same level of care I have in the states.
honestly bro the quality of life has dipped so badly in america from awful policy seriously thinking of moving my family to a better country
Is this cost in line with other SE Asian countries? And did you have health insurance while there?
@@mohamedalkaboom I do have medical insurance. The total billed amount was 4k, I paid less than $600 out of pocket.
I am unsure of other countries, but would look into it if you are looking to have a procedure. Thailand is billing itself as a medical tourism destination now.
@@justinpeepee8454 thanks Justin. Only curious. I was also hospitalized in Manila a few years ago with a stomach problem while I was marrying a local there.
It’s good to know how foreigners handle medical there, as wife and I will be spending part of every year in Philippines
@@mohamedalkaboom its about the level of red tape/regalation
Finally, I see a good topic being discussed! Would be nice if Joe brings it up with a senator or a representative in one of his shows!
It's refreshing to see important topics being discussed, and it would be great if Joe could engage with a senator or representative on his show to provide deeper insights and perspectives. This kind of dialogue can help shed light on various issues and generate a more informed and constructive discussion.
Was just explaining to my doc in Costa Rica how I had insurance come out of my check, but still had to pay for everything until my deductable was met(6k). He couldn't wrap his head around it, literally perplexed.
Quality of care means nothing when most people can't even access that care without a significant, often crippling financial burden. My experience with doctors has been them being egotistical, money hungry shills for the pharmaceutical industry. I've also experienced far too much incompetence in American healthcare to say that we have amazing quality of care. I recently went to get some blood work done, they called me back over a week later and said it turned out they hadn't gotten enough blood from me so I need to go back in and have them redraw my blood. They also prescribed me antibiotics and told me to start taking them before they even got the results to see if I had this UTI type thing(which I had no symptoms for, I was just getting tested cause my gf had it). I didn't take the antibiotics because it's irresponsible to take antibiotics for no reason, and they're terrible for you. I wanted to wait to get the results. I was negative. Also, they didn't even want to test if I had it, they assumed I had it despite me having no symptoms and I had to ask for them to test me because I wanted to know for sure. I mean who wouldn't. Also, my experience with psychiatrists has basically been me telling them what medications I want and then getting them prescribed and having to keep going back for appointments to get the dose up to what I knew from the start was the effective dose for me. Then getting refills can be a huge hassle with certain medications. The entire healthcare system is just a nightmare.
He is right about having the best healthcare in the world, if you can afford the best place. My father is battling cancer, almost wants to give up on treatments to save our family from the financial burdon.
Has been doing chemo for about 3 months, he is down about 30 lbs and weak. He fell the other day. And debated going to the ER even though he had hit his head on the concrete, and had a lump on his head, and his arm was all bruised up, and he was having trouble straightening his leg. And he kept saying "it would cost too much, I don't need to go." Even with insurance it's still stupid how much any form of Cancer treatment or emergency medical treatment.
I agree with alot of what you said...but yes as someone who just discovered this crap called specialty clinics for chronic issues and the refill hassle with that beingnmore than the normal situation. Im convinced the refill scam with psychs is simply so they can billa visit lol
@Ryu rc hope he pulls through, mate.
both are important.
@@ryurc3033what’s your cashapp brother?
I was called an abuser when I questioned the bullying nurses on the reasoning behind unnecessary tests they tried to give my 18-year-old daughter who was sent to the ER by urgent care. To be clear, this was a non-emergency, and she did not need to be there. I had an extremely high insurance deductible. They were telling her what tests they wanted to run and I advised her to not give permission until she spoke with me. They refused to allow me to speak with her apparently because she was 18 at the time. They would not allow her to charge her phone so she could call me and they would not allow her to use the phone in the ER. They kept repeating, 'her body, her choice' like she was pregnant or something. I simply said - great, send her the bill then. They shut up pretty quickly after that. She eventually ran out of there. Crazy
If she didn't need to be there, like you said, then why was she?
@@dimains6011 She had a pain in her chest from a cold/cough, nothing more. As soon as the Urgent care heard pain in the chest, they sent her to the ER
Used to work for a company that would send you and one other person to Costa Rica for routine surgery..... And it was still on average 10 grand cheaper than having it done in the states
I had a public defender years ago who was really smart, hard working and dedicated. He got my charges completely dropped with zero probation or court costs.
It's refreshing to hear about professionals in the legal system who go above and beyond to serve their clients. It's great that they were able to achieve such a positive outcome for you, resulting in dropped charges without any additional penalties. Their intelligence, hard work, and commitment are definitely commendable.
I was rushed into the ER one morning morning due to a heart condition, after injecting medication my heart stablized and they said they just need to run a couple of test that afternoon, and stay overnight just in case. They stalled and didn't do the test until later so i ended up staying for 3 days for no reason. The bill was $38k and i had to pay $12k after insurance. The most frustrating thing about the breakdown of the bill was that the total cost on my actual time on the ER was only $1200. The part that saved my life. The rest of the bill was just me laying on the hospital bed for 3 days for no reason.
I've had babies, surgeries, numerous hospital visits etc. in Australia and it cost nothing. Pretty decent care too although there are issues like anywhere else. There's still a private system for the picky people too
A question from ignorance, I am from Spain, here our healthcare was always public, in case a person cannot pay the cost of an operation or something similar, what happens?
@@menda3682
Cada caso es único,dependiendo del estado,el seguro médico(si tienes uno),el hospital donde fuiste atendido.
Se te podrían dar plan de pagos a largo plazo o descuentos por demostrar que económicamente se te hace imposible pagar.
Pero a la larga de alguna forma u otra tienes que pagar algo.
Si no dependiendo donde vives esa deuda puede pasar a tu récord crediticio y arruinarte porque nadie te va a hacer préstamos o darte tarjeta de crédito por esa mancha que tienes.
También podría pasar que esa deuda se la vendan a una agencia de colección de deuda y esos hijos de puta te harán la vida imposible hasta llegar a un acuerdo de pago.
I work in a hospital. The amount of regulation is so insane, we have to hire tons of people to keep up with it. The amount of people actually taking care of patients is minimal.
A question from ignorance, I am from Spain, here our healthcare was always public, in case a person cannot pay the cost of an operation or something similar, what happens?
@@menda3682 They don’t get treated, thousands of them on the street around here, I’ve not met a homeless person without a serious medical problem they can’t get treated
I hear you. I work in air medical (life flight) and the regulations on us are insane. We get it from both ends, medical regs and aviation regs. The department I'm in was regulated into existence just a couple of years ago by the FAA. You're looking at $1 million in salaries added to the company at the snap of a finger.
@@smithdakotalee Do these homeless people have jobs? I would assume not, but if not, what keeps them from being on Medicaid? Sorry if this is an ignorant question.
@@menda3682
Sometimes they get the operation anyway but then have large medical bills following them and presumably their credit. Sometimes they can negotiate lower bills with the medical facility, on the basis that the prices are so high in the first place partially due to deals with insurance companies and to make up for those that don’t pay, among other reasons. Sometimes. (I’m no expert; I just know of a few cases like that.)
Ok so I have something to share as a brazilian: here we have part of our healthcare offered by the government through tax money, the quality varies drastically depending on where it's offered but on average it's really bad, almost useless bad. I had a kidney problem when I was 19 and my family had no private insurance, so we went to the public system first. We got the basic exams done in three days time in a private facility (our district has a public-private deal where they pay private facilities to use their machines, it's not so common countrywide, I just happen to live in an above average town), the exams were an xray, a blood test and an urine test. After the exams we got back to the doctor and he explained that I would need a cirurgy immediately because my condition was critical, In his own words I had 2 weeks at most until both kidneys fail. The thing is that there was a waiting period of more than 6 months to get the cirurgy done in the public system so that was not an option for me as I would surely die before then. I had to go to a private hospital that charged me around 25k BRL for it (most brazilians dont earn this amount of money in a year worth of work), I was lucky my grandad had this money saved and paid for it. Next day I has the cirurgy and everything went fine. Down here we see in the news everyday hundreds of people dying waiting for all kinds of medical treatment in the public system, it's a huge problem. Now we pay around 2k BRL/month for private healthcare insurance that covers pretty much anything, while still paying around 60% in taxes for public services that we cannot count on.
you are wrong , im brazilian too, we do have many problems, things could work much better, but on average its not useless bad, your case is very specifical, you were about to die
I'm surprised they didn't talk about the medical loss ratio (MLR) as bing a part of why the cost of care, and the cost of insurance continues to go up year over year.
The insurance doesn’t REALLY pay the $3500. They write off most of that
I paid a cam girl that much to cosplay as hulk hogan and call me brother in her best hulk hogan accent.
@@CaptainTard 😂
What? hahahahaha
Yeah, I’m not sure they paid that or their agreed rate was 2000 and he paid all because hadn’t hit deductible
Exactly. I know like with Cigna, they have negotiated rates that can be 30-70% knocked right off the top but it technically is the price that would never get paid. Like my asthma meds will say $500, Cigna Rate $150, my Copay is $15.
I once had my lungs flare up due to a lot of stress caused from me getting fired from a very good job 4 months after buying my first home ... I was watching that Pixar movie with the silly little racing blue snail and by the end of the movie I was gasping for breath and leaning backwards, forwards or laying down on my back or my side felt like I was barely able to breath and gasping for air and it was getting worse and worse...I woke up my family at 2am and they rushed me to the ER. By the time I had gotten to the ER and the time I was sitting in the waiting room about 45 mins had passed and when the doctors did finally see me, whatever I was going through had calmed down a lot and I was able to breath a little easier and easier ...When They checked me out he told me it was most likely stress related due to be losing my job that day. I was kinda stunned and embarrassed that my body reacted the way it did as I was def bummed out and low on money but I was not hysterical or depressed over it or anything...They checked my blood pressure and that was about it. I t was a total false alarm and we just drove back home...few days later I got a bill in the mail for over $4k...for talking with the doc for 15 min and having my blood pressure taken.
I took a corrections class where my instructor told me that all the inmates and prisoners all over America get free medical treatment paid for by taxpayers. He showed us a case with a very sick inmate who was very old and debilitated due and he had so many serious health issues and he showed us how NY state was paying close to 1Million a year in medical bills and special treatment to keep a convicted murderer's heart and kidneys working and he highlighted that if one of our mothers got sick with the same issues as the inmate the state would send their thoughts and prayers buy not spend a single $1 of that tax money to save out family
It's shit like this that makes good citizens want to rage against the system...they could fix these issues in a few short years and alot of work and help many Americans if they wanted but it always comes down to $$$ in the end and they are always screaming about not having money but we see how the Pandemic, Banks crashing and the war in Ukraine showed us that these elites and law makers could easily whip up Billions of dollars out of the ether when they need too
The system is set up to be a swamp, no president could fix what got them there in the first place
I had a mrsa infection in my leg, 8 days in the hospital, i had 3 meals a day, 1 injection of pain meds, 1 of a blood thinner, and antibiotics. Thats it and i got first bill and it was 5k and i was like ouch, then more poured in and it ended up being almost 40k. My mom needed a liver transplant and it is a minimum of 500k , they wouldnt even put her on a list cause she didnt have funds or insurance to cover it. She got to see her grandkids a total of 2 times before she died.
Those inmates are the equivalent to ATM's for the Prison system. Taxpayers footing the bill, to keep them alive...
Yoooo you went to the ER for a panic attack hahah
@@spacebound2195 never had a panic attack personaly, but i could see how someone might not realize what was going on, could have easily been a heartattack. One of my jiujitsu students thought they were having a panic attack so they had a couple beers to relax and turned he had a blockage and had a heart attack. Luckily he survived.
I paid cash for an exam where they tested for strep. Costed around $120. I did it on insurance a separate time and somehow costed ME $250. I still have a simmering rage about it.
I was listening to a freakonomics episode discussion this same issue. The healthcare system is in a deadly embrace with the insurance companies. Currently the health providers inflate the prices because so many people don't pay. So those bills need to be paid by those others. The insurance companies struggle to have policies to cover the ongoing cost increases and so the show goes on.
As long as the hospitals charge that kind of money, you can't blame the insurance.
In Oklahoma they have something called soonercare which is basically Medicare. I had it for years making 25k a year. They pay 100% of medical bills, ambulance rides and I believe life flight but I'm not sure. My wife had twins and they were early like twins usually are. The NICU 2 week stay was 300k the birth was another 90k and my wife's aftercare another 60k. I run my own small construction company that I'm still out there working with my crew. That bill would've ruined my entire life. There is no chance I'd pay that off. I can't afford a home right now but I hope to in the future and it just never would've happened with that debt and the hit to my credit. People don't seem to give a shit but illegal immigration is ruining blue collar family lives. The wages go down the cost of living goes up. Supply and demand. They also don't have to pay bills at hospital. I bet that's a large percentage of the unpaid bill excuse. There's also the fact that they just charge what they want because insurance will pay because they make so much money off everyone that it's no big deal to them. Insurance is a scam, government involvement is a scam. It's getting harder and harder for even smart, hard-working clean living men to climb out of poverty. Wake up everyday and work in the sun doing physical labor 10 or 12 hours and you can't feed your kids or provide a roof.
As someone living in Europe, my mouth dropped when I heard the prices. If you hop on a plane and come here for the examination, you'd probably pay less, despite the travel and accommodation costs.
What about Quality? Edit: They talked about Costs & Access.....what about Quality?
@@mastersplinter5966 the quality is pretty good.
@Master Splinter he said about not being able to get mri and stuff. I hurt my knee, and my regular dr (not hospital, not ER) was able to send me downstairs to get an x-ray that day for it. Only waited like 20 mins.
Depends. I have eye issues. I looked at prices in Switzerland for treatment. Its already more than just getting it done here in the US (with insurance i have). Ive also never been to Switzerland but i know whe i was traveling Europe it was very expensive. That said yea prob Germany (acc where im prob going for this eye disease) and other place are prob better and more cost efficient and Switzerland is a big anomaly..
Edit: Also to be fair like the Doctor who invented this eye treatment and has some novel techniques is in Switzerland. So the quality of care is prob 5x better esp because the FDA didnt even approve it until like 10 years after Europe was doing it.
@@mastersplinter5966 travel to Europe and you will see how the quality rivals USA. Sometimes I feel is better.
My ex wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis the same year we were married. The first year she had that disease, the healthcare cost were over $1 million, and I am not even joking.
My friend's wife has MS. She has physical therapy, pain management, a multi-purpose chair, a chair crane for the car, a powered inclining bed, a doctor, and a part-time nurse. That is all paid for by the government. I'm happy for my taxes to go toward this than an over-bloated military or the pharmaceutical industry.
Why’d you divorce?
@@bob11002009 She could have passed away too.
@@bob11002009 Didn't you hear the guy, a million a year
No lol she left me. If you look up multiple sclerosis and divorce, you never read about the person that has the disease that leaves. She had it for about three years and then in 2021 she decided she didn’t want to be married anymore.
Generally,no one pays attention until it directly impacts them. I never gave this a thought until a few years ago. Asked for an itemized bill and then began researching the medical/ insurance business- he’s not wrong, prices were by and large made up.
Cash patients, tiered insurances, it was disgusting.
I broke my leg in two places in Australia, didn't cost me a cent.
The only cost was follow up visits, that was about $100 each visit x4.
No private health or insurance.
My nephew is going to medical school there. He loves universal medicine, but decided to come back to the US for residency because the pay is so low, lol.
canadian here. 15 years ago I got spinal fusion surgery. they did a great job. when I call to see my doctor I'm booked in a week, and to get bloodwork I get a note and walk downstairs, wait like 15 mins. couple weeks later I have my results. I'm happy paying my taxes.
It’s usually more things like if u need imaging, that’s my experience in BC seeing a doctor is pretty quick usually a week or two it’s seeing specialist or imaging like MRI depending where u live, also depends the level of necessity and severity is, more severe things happen a lot quicker for sure
Exactly same I have CKD I have two doctors 2 nurses a social worker routine bloodwork done very efficient. This guy has no idea what he is speaking on and is trying to justify the quality of care for the money he spent. The poor cancer patients coming to the states as their last hope, they still die only in massive dept to their families..
sounds slow
So why do Canadians come to America for healthcare?
And you could do the same except cheaper and faster if we deregulated everything.
I used to live in a beautiful home in a great neighborhood after studying all my life, going to school and getting out of North Philly. I accepted a new job so I had a little over a month off before the new job started. I didn't pay the incredible cost of carryover health care because we were in our early 30s and we would be picking up the new company's healthcare when I started. Well... that was a huge mistake. I now live in Kensington, Philadelphia and have lost everything except for what matters the most, my wife. The jobs that I used to get check your credit score so now it's impossible to get a high end job in my profession. The system is NOT broken. it's working just as intended for the shareholders. Something needs to be done.
I would recommend looking into a credit repair company.
also don't listen to the credit sharks, they can't actually take everything from you, home/car are mostly protected, contact a lawyer and make a unified debt plan.
Might not mean much but I hope everything falls into place for you, and I'm sure it will. Have you thought about looking at employment around Europe? I'm sure your profession will have opportunities out here where you won't be held back by your credit score in the States. I had to do something similar when I was going through a rough patch and a move to another country helped me with a fresh start and a clean file. Good luck!
Little late to bring this up but you should have had 30 days to sign up for COBRA to extend your insurance. Did anyone tell you that?
@@youngatheart7106 COBRA!!! That's it!! I couldn't remember the name of it. Yes, I was informed but it was SO very expensive just for the short time between jobs, and since we were young & not going to be traveling anywhere we decided to just wait for the coverage we'd have in just over a month. Like I said originally, big mistake. Those few thousands of dollars invested for that 0month of coverage would have made our lives go in a completely different direction.
Joe pretty much described the UK health system, apart from a direct link to health = politicians salary, which would be very difficult to do.
The UK health system isn''t perfect but recently I went through some things and within a month, had an underactive thyroid discovered and prescribed for. An MRI, CT scan, six blood tests for 25 different things (all results accessible online, some immediately), three ultra-sounds on three different parts of my body, two X-ray sessions on five different places and am being seen by specialist consultants at their clinics for follow up tests. The cost was the petrol to get there (and my taxes), and due to it being a lifelong condition, the thyroid medication is free and I get a card for all other future meds (for free) because of it.
However, the UK system does flick between broken and working due to the continual costs, which comes from older populations and better diagnosis and treatment, which ironically we have because of the US system, where investment by health companies is used to extract greater healthcare costs from populations.
Oh, if you think you'd encourage healthy lifestyles to reduce costs, you're wrong. The UK won't even build the houses to improve health and reduce costs/burdens, let alone challenge the narratives of 'kind' people.
How do you ask the question "what do you think the bill was" and not have the answer ready to go?
I’m from the uk and been in the US on and off for 1.5 years. I can not believe how bad health care is here. I have good insurance but it doesn’t matter sometimes. I find it incredibly stressful to navigate this system. I lived and worked in the Middle East with private health care and it was much easier.
It is incredibly stressful. The system actively disuades you from using it. That’s by design though, the insurance companies would much prefer you keep paying them without using their services.
I’m Irish, we have public and private healthcare. A two layered system where those who can afford it, pay and those who can’t don’t. It works, but has its issues too.
@@LeMerch the Irish medical system is pretty crap, you have people laying on trolleys in hospital corridors
@@bob6267 in some public A&E yeah, same in the UK and a lot of Europe tbh but like I said, for those people its free!
The US system is literally designed to be confusing and terrible. It’s on purpose
I drove myself to the Emergency Room last year due to some abdominal pain which turned out to be a Kidney Stone. Was in the ER for 4 hours and was provided an IV with morphine and then released. They charged insurance $17,000 for my visit. Which I was responsible for $3,000 of. If I knew how much it was going to cost I wouldn’t have gone to the ER.
Nothing better than an 18yr old eager little who re.
In Russia they would charge you - NOTHING. In great world class clinic you would pay 400$ max.
I have no idea how did people even accepted such a shit show in America.
😆This I BELIEVE!
Which state?
In Australia I've never paid for a blood test.
With the Medicare system you receive a rebate on a lot of services.
I think part of the issue is that insurance is being forced to act like a healthcare plan ... Insurance in any other industry is for if something happens .. not maintenance costs. But in healthcare we have regulated the maintenance costs into it ... vastly expanding the cost. We need insurance to go back to being insurance ... and for either the government or private with regulation to create separate healthcare plans.
I am currently traveling, and I am in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia. Recently, I got a MRI scan with contrast at a local Malaysian hospital here for $450 all out of pocket. Back in 2020 I had a MRI with contrast in the US too, the hospital billed me at $12000, then my insurance came in and negotiated it down to $9000.
In the Malaysian hospital, I was able to schedule the MRI scan the next day. The one in US took me a while because the insurance company required me to prove that I actually needed the scan by doing some other tests/scan/consultations first so the insurance company's expert can review and approve the scan. It took like 2 weeks.
Also, while I was in Vietnam, I got bitten by a dog. Getting rabies is basically the same as getting the death sentence. So I had to get 5 rabies shots manufactured by a French company. 4 of those shots were done in Vietnam for $15 to $20 each, then the last shot in Taiwan for $50. If in US, I would have to take 4 shots manufactured by an American company, and each shot is about $350, so total would be $1400.
I had done a quick check on travel medical insurance and international medical insurance. They are different, but when comes to coverage, I notice that their base plans always say something like: Global coverage, EXCLUDING United States. But if I choose a plan that covers US, then the monthly premium goes up, especial for the international medical insurance, which could double. And sometimes there would be other rules like: you can't stay in US for longer than a month (less likely to go to the hospital which would cost the insurance company)
This issue is complicated. Another big factor in the high costs of liability insurance for hospitals and healthcare workers, etc. Not just the actual dollars for the insurance policies, but also out of the sheer fear of being sued. This creates a mindset where the providers order tests and procedures that are unnecessary. It’s huge billions of dollars business for attorneys on both sides of the equation.
I retired early from my almost 30 years as an Emergency Physician for this same reason.
James Dozier feels just like the gold rush in california... once money is to be made, all the cockroaches comes in to profit off us! people will always get sick, so each industry found a way to leech off us!!!
It's all admin fees. I'm not exaggerating when I say that hospital bills are inflated up to 30x JUST because insurance. 1) they know they'll pay whatever they're charged and 2) the hospital has to hire thousands of admin staff to work with insurance companies for billing purposes. Those prices simply get passed on to you. And then insurance companies, will do everything in their power to NOT pay it. I had to deal with an insurance company over an ER visit for damn near 18 months before they finally paid it after I threatened to get lawyers involved. By the end of the ordeal, I had paid more in my monthly insurance payments than they paid out, and I spent hours of my own time on the phone with the hospital and them. Had I not been forced by the government to have insurance, I would have just paid the bill out of pocket, and it would have been cheaper.
And mass migration you can expect free healthcare if you have a border that has a million people coming in every year.
And yet the vaccine companies made billions in profits, but are not paying out anything to the hundreds of thousands of vax injured people.
Why do we compare ourselves to just Canada? Why not France or Italy, which have been rated number one (or top 3) a number of times.
The problem here is the focus is for-profit and not care. Look up “dollar bill” McGuire, he made billions and paid his employees bonuses to find ways not to pay for people’s care (even life saving care that was needed).
Also we aren’t number one in quality, that all depends on what specific care we are talking about but often we aren’t.
I appreciate Joe's call for healthy lifestyles and that would help the US to close the gap in lifespan with other rich nations. But our healthcare costs have little to do with our lifestyles. The last years of our lives is when all the crazy spending happens. That might be when Joe is ninety and some fat smoker is sixty, but if you get sick before you die, which almost everyone does, the healthcare system will take their toll.
My grandmother lived a healthy and frugal life, but the over $1M spent by a hospital in the last WEEK of her life would have wiped out her (and my late grandfather's) remaining savings five times over if she wasn't well insured.
Great point. I also didn’t fully understand his perspective that there is 0% that goes into promoting healthy lifestyle and a lot that goes into body positive. There’s a lot to unpack there but, to start, how is that true? Is he talking about the messaging that comes from the government? Is he talking about the messaging from society in general? You know what I mean? It’s an argument that raises so many questions that weren’t answered.
@@mindful_wander cause Joe lately has been leaning right in his view points. And his talking point is always to attack the “woke” aspect than addressing the actual issue.
Totally wrong. American diet/cuisine drives horrible outcomes. Diabetes, stroke, heart issues, obesity, etc.
So high? It’s because of “insurance” , which removes the positive effects of “supply & demand “ / “free market” . Compare that to DPC , and DPC prices, which are far less than “copay”
When u take your customers last dollar , they can’t come back !! Med industry has done this for so long, hence obama care , was designed to rescue the med industry financial, which is bloated and actually killing itself . Add to that some hospice killing patients for 30k incentive, they are running out of customers to loot
I worked in the billing industry. Simple explanation- the hospitals charge the people with insurance to pay for the non insured.
This is why virtually anyone with elderly parents travelling to the US for tourism is advised to purchase medical insurance because they'd be in a real fix if they were to require an ER visit. Scary af.
Here's an idea just don't pay 😊
In 2008 I was robbed by some gang members and stomped unconscious with my clavicle crushed and head split open needing staples. Somebody found me called 911 then I ended up getting life flighted to the ER. THEY SENT ME A BILL FOR 20,000 LOL!!! I was ever gonna pay that and never will I swear to God. You can't make me I dare them to try!!! 😊
You should get travel insurance when you travel out of country, even if you aren't elderly. Non-residents still have to pay extra, in other countries.
@@carbon-based-lifeform9172 You should google "number of years for medical debt to go away" and look at the first result. You can probably get your debt dismissed.
As an American living outside the US, I ALWAYS carry travel insurance when visiting the US.
@@carbon-based-lifeform9172 this is why credit card machines should be in ambulances.
My father, a doctor that works overseas, had an ear infection while visiting the US. Overseas, he would simply go to the pharmacy and tell the pharmacist he has a simply ear infection. The pharmacist would sell him a $5 drug. No fuss, no doctors, no insurance, no BS. In the US, he had to go to a doctor and pay $350 for a 5 minutes consultation for the obvious diagnosis and prescription. Then go to the pharmacy to fill the prescription from a "pharmacist" who just drops the ear drops into a paper bag and pay another $350. $700 total for what costs $5 overseas. This is criminal. The quality of care isn't better than other even less developed countries. Don't be fooled by that. Insurance companies, drug companies, hospitals and even doctors are thieves in the United States.
That's cap. Sorry there's just no way you paid $350 for them. Urgent care visits are typically $100-150 self pay and no common antibiotic eardrops cost that much. The brand name stuff like Tobradex might be that much but they would automatically use the generic. If you're a foreigner or without insurance the pharmacy apply a cash discount card and you shouldn't be paying more than $50.
Yeah sorry but I'm calling bullshit. I've lived on the US all my life. I carry a high deductible plan so most of the medical care I get I pay out of pocket for. An office visit even at one of the walk in places which are more expensive is maybe 150 tops and even without insurance there is no way he paid 350 for antibiotic ear drops. Those cost like 50 bucks. Not to mention with the prevalence of telehealth you don't even need to go to a doc in person for something as simple as an ear infection. You can have a virtual visit for $40 where I live, just tell them what's up and they will send the prescription for something simple like ear drops.
"Who worked overseas", Why not name the country? Is your countries overall healthcare better than USA?
@@TheFlyingCougar you're the kind of person who just doesn't listen but guess what that wasn't bullshit because I have many friends who get screwed like that all the time with their health insurance. The system is beyond broken and is only for profit.
Most people on the usa like to blame big corporations like insurance companies without ever blaming the doctors and medical providers who are the ones charging the high fee.
I live in Taiwan where the national health care system has been rated number one in the world the last three years in a row. When you need surgery there is no waiting. The world needs to look into how Taiwan does it.
S Korea, too. Maybe the secret to good healthcare is 100% compulsory male conscription and being surrounded by hostile nations.
I live in Sydney and had a colonocopy done years ago in the public hospital referred by a specialist for free. I paid the specialist AU$160.00 as it's not covered by bulk billing.
I am in the UK. Suffered a terrible accident, was basically dead, got airlifted, surgeries, a month and a half in the hospital and a lot of post-surgery care.
Not a single pound was charged.
It costed alot but it cost the taxpayers as a whole, better than the US but the downsides are still there as opposed to a system where we all pay for ourselves.
@@Ghost-fe1vpDo you even understand why insurance exists?
Incorrect. Someone had to pay for that. And it was everyone else who doesn't know you, doesn't care about you, and SHOULD NOT be responsible for you
@@ram89572 hey retard, I paid for it too with my taxes. Now stop being jealous about our system and enjoy not having health care.
@@ram89572 Same question I asked Ghost-fe1vp...how can you be so dense to not realize that your idea of how the world should work, would plunge it back into the dark ages?
Someone has a terrible accident (i.e. not their fault) and your brilliant idea is to have him/her pay for that, in a system where most people live paycheck to-paycheck?
Brilliant, just brilliant, I wonder why we ever invented insurance.../s
New to your podcast! Im also an ICU RN, thank you for speaking the truth! God bless you
Everything in the US medical system is absurdly expensive compared to other developed countries: Drugs, tech and doctor renumeration.
they don’t want you to he healthy, it’s just clear as a day. i work in the health-care system for france and one thing about them is that they want their population fertile and healthy
I almost never see a bill but when I got one for a trip in an ambulance for 265€ my portion was 10€. '10% of charge but no more than 10€' applied here too.
This stuff makes me so glad. I am very thankful that we have access to high quality care, but it is so crushing to have ridiculously high bills that are unpredictable. It would be one thing if you could get a ballpark estimate of how much things cost beforehand and could compare with other hospitals/care providers. It feels like a complete crapshoot; you never know how much it's going to cost and can never hold anyone accountable for over-charging (or incorrectly charging) you. My oldest son has had 4 or 5 asthma attacks in his life. It always happens on the weekend or in the middle of the night and we have been stuck going to ERs and urgent cares. The price for the same treatment has cost anywhere between $500 and $1200 (the ER wasn't the most expensive time either). We never know what the bill is going to look like, and for a family that doesn't have a whole lot extra it is very hard to fit these expenses into our life.
I don't know where all of you folks are getting this 'we have high quality care' stuff from. Maybe if you're rich you have access to that. But in my experience, the care sucks in this nation.
My healthcare isn’t quality, trying to navigate that bullshit makes it almost not worth engaging with. Glad you have good healthcare though
A lot of people behind this SHOULD be in prison. It's inhumane by all intents and definition.
Healthcare costs are high as a result of government interference in the market.
So, yes.
@@docsavage8640You mean lack of government interference. Healthcare costs are high bc of corporate greed and bloated CEO pay.
they turned people health care into a bussines. same with all those media manipulators like we had with coviiid. all criminals
As a foreigner with health problems, I wanted to visit the US (coming from Norway) and espescially Florida, what kind of tips you have? I will of course have travel insurance, but all serious tips are welcome, thanks. This is one of the scariest thing personally coming to visit the US.
I checked myself into the ER 2 years ago due to bleeding internally. In there 24 hours and my bill was over $30k and my portion was almost $8k. And I had insurance. Also 2 of my children have a genetic disorder and are 100% normal but need IV infusions every 2 weeks to give their body an enzyme theirs doesn’t produce. A biweekly bill is well over $80,000. I lost my job twice due to my impact on the companies insurance program. I get it-my company became a high risk and only 1 company would quote them. His premium went from $900k annually to $2.1 million due to now being high risk.
I live in Canada. I once injured my knee while playing soccer. I went to the hospital and received great care without having to pay a penny. However, I did have to wait an hour or two since other people had more serious injuries. After talking to the doctor, he recommended getting an MRI, which was done within 7 days. Again, I paid zero dollars. The system here is not perfect, but it is certainly fairer and more accessible than in the USA.
This guy is so full of shit claiming you can't get private clinic work done in Ontario.
💯👏
Yea sucks too live in America where you would go to ER they would give the MRI that same day and you would leave with a diagnosis.
in the US you get way faster care.
@@choobplaya ya and you have to pay an arm and a leg
Dental insurance is similar. Each insurance company has a contract with providers and set prices.
I had a traumatic brain injury about 8 months ago. Bill was for over $140,000 but my out of pocket max was $6,700. Still a significant chunk of change. Also have been having to spend almost that much per year with unrelated back problems.
New out of pocket max is almost $10,000 now
In the European countries all your medical care would be free.
I live in America, and health insurance for my three person family is $800/mo. People who want private health insurance are all well off older people.
Did a check-in with my doctor here in Norway (I’m an American expat).
Cost to me was $30.
In Belgium, it’s even cheaper.
Do I get taxes more?
Yes.
Do I worry about going bankrupt? Never.