We need to figure something out. For so many Americans to be unable to get medical care while we pay billions in tax dollars for wars we didn't agree to is insane
My mother had a kidney stone that almost killed her and she had to stay in the hospital for about a week. The bill was just over $100K. My family had to file for bankruptcy and it took about a decade to recover from it. One little health issue and you're financially devastated in this country.
legalize all drugs, get rid of doctor licensure, and turf ownership in hospitals. and abolish the FDA. Remove intellectual property laws. We will then have the least expensive care in the world.
My daughter had to be taken to the ER at 1 years old and cost me $60,000 out of pocket after insurance. I just now paid that off after 14 years. This is insane no one should have to deal with a life event like this and the stress of paying what they make in a year.
Oh, you noticed that too? We have commercials for everything in the US, even drugs! It's like they're competing for the title of the catchiest side effects. It can be pretty entertaining, I must admit. But hey, at least we know all the potential solutions to our imaginary medical problems now!
It didn't used to be that way! Only the past few years have these commercials started to dominate everything else on advertising. We don't like it over here either, they are coming up with drugs for the most unusual afflictions and paying high advertising costs. But the drug makers must feel it's worth it to them. It's gotten way out of hand.
Health Broker here, here are some tips: 1. Unless you are dying, go to Urgent Care. Stay away from Emergency rooms. Urgent care is 1/10 of the price and can offer most procedures up to broken bone. 2. If you are in the emergency room, always ask for the cash price, and then ask the billing office which charities are on file. Many charities will pay portions of medical bills to help those in need it's a huge help. 3.If you have insurance look into an HSA. It can be a huge help in case of emergencies. The health care system is a scam. Its catered to big business and even ACA plans are horrible. Look into private PPO's and HSA's.
@@AbcDino843 The last few sentences contradict half of your posted views on this page. The American health care system is a big business scam. A handful of degenerates are making boatloads of money off of your suffering.
I work at a health insurance company and let me tell you how depressing it is having to navigate this monster of a system even as a trained professional. I would happily give up my career so that the people I genuinely try to help wouldn’t have to deal with companies like mine anymore
I wish more people were like you. I have a friend who has been a programmer for an insurance company for like 4 or 5 years now. He has automated like 40% of jobs at premera and they are making shit tons more because he brought them into the 21st century. I always joke he works for the worst people ever and should take it all down because he could if he wanted to. That company is a monopoly but when your incentive is a lot of $$$ people will do anything sadly.
The problem is you though, if insurance employees stood up and picketed they would think about change but you make it possible for them to gouge citizens
Everybody I ever talk to in the insurance sounds as exacerbated, frustrated, and confused as I am when I call them for help. Insurance in America is a frucker clust.
@@Girtharmstrong69 That is not really true. They would outsource the jobs to some poor foreign country to do the same thing. And because those people are starving and need to work, they would gladly screw over Americans for a chance at a better life.
@@Girtharmstrong69 him and the workers aren’t the problem it’s the fact that it’s part of the law which he has no control over. Hence it’s the government fucking shit up once again and here you are blaming this guy who agrees with everyone that the system is shit
I had a 10 minute CT scan, saw a physicians assistant (never a doctor) for approx 15 minutes, bill was $8000 of which we had to pay $2400. Knowing this I honestly wouldn’t have gone to the ER, didn’t really want to but I feared I might have broken a hip after falling 12 ft off a ladder. Our medical system is a joke, people have creditors hounding them, often go bankrupt, and for decades we have acted like this is normal.
Medical bankruptcy is one of the most inflated claims in the US to generate hype for political purposes, while not having a very significant influence on bankruptcy filings. Bankruptcy filings are a result of multiple factors, and medical bills are nowhere near the top factor according to all the data I have studied. For starters, Elizabeth Warren’s cherry-picked study went to 2005, where there were only 1.45 million bankruptcies filed in the whole US including Chapter 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15. Only Ch 13 is for wage-earners, while Ch 15 represented the largest % of filings. The study expanded the parameters to include if people had missed 2 weeks of work due to sickness, had medical bills over $1000, and mortgaged their home to pay for bills. If bankruptcy filers fell into those categories, it was listed as "bankruptcy due to medical expenses", even if that wasn’t true. That’s less than half a percent of the overall population who even filed for bankruptcy. By adding those parameters, they fudged the data to indicate that 61% of the filers filed because of medical expenses. Another study in 2011 found that only 26% of Ch 13 filers said medical expenses played a role. Some studies said 57.1% while others said more people filed bankruptcy for medical expenses than overall bankruptcy filings, which is egregiously flawed. Not only can’t all Ch 13 filers be due to medical expenses, but Ch 13 can’t exceed all of the types of Chapter filings due to the dominance of corporate and foreign businesses filing bankruptcy each year. Ch 13 is only 27-38% of bankruptcy filings each year. Another thing is that personal bankruptcies are not a constant Y2Y. Personal bankruptcies peaked in 2010 at over 434,000 after the financial crisis, then dropped dramatically down to around 299,000 in 2016, 289,000 in 2019, and 194,000 in 2020. Chapter 13 Bankruptcies in US Year to Year 2008: 353k 2009: 398k 2010: 434.8k 2011: 417k 2012: 375k 2013: 343k 2014: 313k 2015: 302k 2016: 299k 2017: 296k 2018: 288k 2019: 289k 2020: 194k 2021: 117.7k 2022: 149k (.05% of the US population) Anytime someone presents a claim, automatically question whether that claim is even accurate, then do the research and understand the basic math. In the case of medical bankruptcy, it’s an extremely inflated piece of hype used by proponents of massive change to the overall US system, with no numbers to support it. It’s sensationalist hype really.
@@LRRPFco52 Not really the main point but I apologize if that term was misleading, I'm sure your figures are correct. The main thrust of my post was the absurdity of medical costs and the stress it places on Americans, financially and emotionally.
@Nick Yankee These are the types of studies I’m talking about that count on people not looking up the numbers. It’s not possible for 530,000 families to turn to bankruptcy when only 229,703 Chapter 7 filings and 149,077 Chapter 13 bankruptcies were filed in 2022. Somebody is lying, and it isn’t the US Bankruptcy Courts statistics. The worst year since 2008 was 2010, with 1.146 million Ch 7 and 434,839 Ch 13 filings. That was because of the sub-prime housing Markey with variable rate mortgages, not medical bills. Ch 7 & 13 filings dropped dramatically since then and most Ch 13 filings are due to mortgage default, auto loans, credit card debt, and a series of financial factors that contribute overall to households seeking Ch 13 protection. Those studies (that say anything over 26% of Ch 7 & 13 filings are due to medical bills) manipulated the data to include if the earners were off work for 2 weeks or more, were injured during the year in question, and things not related specifically to their filing. Even we add up all Chapter 7 liquidation bankruptcies and Chapter 13 wager earner bankruptcies, we don’t reach this 530,000 number since 2020 unless over 88% of bankruptcies were due to medical bills in 2020, and 124% of filings in 2021 (not possible): 2020 Ch 7 + Ch 13 = 603,548 2021 Ch 7 + Ch 13 = 428,381 2022 Ch 7 + Ch 13 = 378,780 filings In reality, there were more likely 98,780 Ch 7 + Ch 13 filings combined where medical bills were the major factor, on top of bad debt/income ratios, especially with credit card bills and crazy auto loans. Medical providers generally work with people on a payment plan, which should not even be a thing because we have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, ACA, and private providers. Medical debt bankruptcy is generally more of a story about bad personal finance, not an inherent problem with the healthcare system, although I do agree that providers, Pharma, and insurance companies hike up prices when nobody sees how much things actually cost.
I live in the UK and sure, the NHS has problems. The waiting list for routine procedures is insane, hence private healthcare is getting more popular. However, when you have a major family emergency you know the NHS will always be there and that’s just such a relief. The idea of getting a bill for an air ambulance and major emergency surgery sends a shiver down my spine.
Either way you are paying it with your taxes in the UK...if i am middle class i am paying 40% more in taxes (for me that is 15k in taxes annually), my last bill for a minor surgery was $700 (private insurance paid $30,000)...If i could choose between paying $700 once every 10 years or 15k every year i would choose the former. If you are poor and do not pay taxes, then obviously the UK system is better for you since someone else is shouldering the burden of taxes to allow you to have that surgery. If you are middle class, USA is the place to be.
@@sew_gal7340 Except the US system is extremely inefficient so the per person spend on healthcare is far higher. Also, your once every 10-year health emergency is likely to cost you an awful lot more than $700. I'm sure that private insurance wasn't cheap.
@@sew_gal7340 The UK Central Government funding for the National Health Service is about £180 billion there are about 67 million people in the UK. A proportion of our taxes called National Insurance goes towards the National Health Service so we pay about £2,800 per person per year for our healthcare for full coverage and no out-of-pocket expenses. I pay 20% tax and you don't pay tax on the first $14,850. As I explained above this includes healthcare full coverage for myself and my family. I have 3 neurological conditions, a congenital heart defect, and a thyroid condition. I had a pregnancy with complications and many other things along the way. I have had decades of treatment and have been under the care of many Specialists and Consultants including a Cardiologist, Cardiothoracic surgeon, Neurologist, Neurosurgeon, Pain Specialist, Audiologist, etc. Decades of MRI/MRA scans, CAT scans, echocardiograms, ECGs, 24-hour heart monitors, surgeries, procedures, doctor call-outs to my home day or night, ambulance call-outs, hospital stays, ER visits, urgent care clinics, physiotherapists, X-rays, broken bones, hearing tests, blood tests, ultrasound scans, antenatal care and postnatal care, and a whole lot more. Not to mention all the healthcare from my Primary Care Doctors, health checks, and annual screenings. The cost to me is £0. I pick up my repeat prescriptions from my Pharmacy every month and pay £0. Medications are free for many health conditions. Medications are also free to Children under 18, People aged 60 and over, People in education, Unemployed People, Pregnant women and Postpartum, and People who can't work due to illness and disability. For People who do pay for their medications, all prescriptions are £9.65 All forms of birth control are free as are all vaccinations. My parents get their free monthly repeat prescriptions delivered to their home every month for free. I had COVID last year and recovered but still had chest symptoms. I called my Primary Care Doctor in the morning who came out to see me that afternoon during his home visits. He examined me and prescribed a 5-day course of Antibiotics to treat a chest infection the cost to me was £0. My uncle had a heart attack this year and needed a valve replacement after he was discharged from the hospital Specialist Cardiac nurses visited his home daily to aid in his recovery. After being discharged from the hospital women and their newborn babies receive their first 2 weeks of postnatal care at home midwives do daily home visits. Unlike Americans who are restricted by their Network, I am fully covered I can choose and go to any Hospital, Consultant, Specialist, Surgeon, etc in the entire country. If I stopped working tomorrow absolutely nothing regarding my healthcare would change. In the rest of the developed world healthcare is a human right that people have the same access to regardless of whether someone is in employment or not.
The US isn't free market, and the above comment said it correct, government healthcare is expensive low quality prepaid care, the workers are lazier because they get a guaranteed paycheck and they aren't accountable to you the patient. Imagine paying tens of thousands a year into a system and when you finally need it, they treat you like a number, or just offer you medical assisted dying. Chronic Lyme disease will end the cronyism
@@sew_gal7340 in the US you also pay for healthcare with your taxes. It's even higher cost than in the UK if you look at the per capita health spending.
5 years ago I was admitted to a local hospital for 24 hours, and the bill - just for the hospital room itself (no meds, scans, Dr's, techs, etc. included) was 25K. For. A. Hospital. Room.
@@svyatoyaleksnevskiy If you think the hospital system, or anything for that matter, operates on the economics of capitalism than you might be a dumb Russian.
I'm a young man who does well for himself. Own a house etc. Had my first child and at the time I was paying about 500 dollars a month for health care for just my wife. This is a ton of money for me. For what I thought was a solid plan. I walked out with over 10k in medical bills for my child which was a straight forward 0 complications birth. It was scary.
@Chris Lyle rather not get personal here but know that this was private health care. I work in a freelance industry in nyc that generally doesn't have great benefits. Also my wife does not work.
Well, we wanted comfort rather than reality. It's all fine when we have painkillers and trained professionals, but when you show how stupid the masses are by believing the cold is as lethal as airborne cancer, they act. Our next generations will face some serious anti-human leadership because so many assumed ignorance where there was decades of planned malice. There's women who specialize in helping women give birth at home, and they bring some modern medicines to ease the process and it goes just as well, if not better than the new normal, for a fraction of the cost. But hey, that and I are crazy, so we all better stick to the monthly insurance bill before any actual visits, as well as the astronomical cost for having a kid which totally won't incentivize generational collapse or anything.
My dad had an 11 mile trip in a ambulance from hospital to home for hospice. I got the bill for the ambulance ride this week and it was $7300. His health insurance denied the bill because it wasn’t a medically needed trip. He passed away 30 hours after coming home.
A couple of years ago I went to one of those emergency clinics because I started having intense lower back pain and didn't have insurance. They said we think you have a kidney stone you need to go to the ER. The hospital was a block away. You could see it from the clinic. They put me in an ambulance for 5 minutes to the ER and it was $1600.00.
I was seeing this Finnish girl who told me about her ex's grandma, who lived in a town near the Norwegian border. One day she needed an emergency trip to the hospital, so a nearby Norwegian hospital sent her a helicopter and it was either free or something like 30 dollars (in Norwegian currency). Here in the US, we'd rather spend our money bombing brown people and playing with our toys in the sand, as late George Carlin said, may he rest in peace.
I work in the industry and I see it on the inside every day - hospitals drive up the costs (then play a guilt trip reputation war in the media when insurance companies ask them to come down on prices during negotiations). In the auto world, you turn the mechanic's bill into the insurance company and they pay you out directly....no insurance interfacing with the mechanic... However in the medical world, the hospital is legally allowed to negotiate a price with the insurer that is substantially higher than the cash price they'd quote the patient directly. Advice from an insider: 1. Control the health outcomes you can control (diet, exercise, alcohol, tobacco, sleep). 2. Open an HSA and auto-transfer $100/month into it every month for life. 3. Ask for the cash price and itemized bill for all planned services not guaranteed to be covered 100% by your insurance plan (example: outpatient surgeries like an appendix removal) before presenting proof of insurance. 4. Before the procedure and if your HSA funds can cover the cash price, present the bill to your insurance company YOURSELF and ask them to guarantee reimbursement (after you pay the cash price) according to your insurance plan (they will because they're saving money). 5. Pay cash to the hospital and await direct reimbursement from your insurer. . . . Insurance is meant for catastrophic events, not everyday maintenance. All Joe's guest had to do was follow the above steps (in fact, if he can pay a couple thousand for colonoscopies, he can ask for and pay the lower cash price for a blood test and IV bag easily), and he'd have probably only been out a few hundred bucks? Maybe a bit more? Fight fire with fire - don't let the hospitals go behind your back a drive up your insurance costs. It's not going to doctors and nurses; it's going to hospital CFOs.
This is the most accurate representation I've seen of the rise in prices. It is the same reason that college tuition is so high. To the service provider, the cost of negotiation is baked in. It is massively assumed that a more secure payer (Bank, Insurer) will be doing the negotiation and paying the bill.
Or to avoid all the rigmarole you wrote about just get the government to do the right thing by the people. Introduction of a National Health Service ASAP. Seeing as almost all your politicians are bought, I say good luck with that!
My dad had prostate issues- surgery in US with months wait time was around 36k-40k and he went to Mexico and around 3k and minimal wait time. Great doctors and no issues afterwards!
legalize all drugs, get rid of doctor licensure, and turf ownership in hospitals. and abolish the FDA. Remove intellectual property laws. We will then have the least expensive care in the world.
Why do we compare ourselves to just Canada? Why not France or Italy, which have been rated number one (or top 3) a number of times. The problem here is the focus is for-profit and not care. Look up “dollar bill” McGuire, he made billions and paid his employees bonuses to find ways not to pay for people’s care (even life saving care that was needed). Also we aren’t number one in quality, that all depends on what specific care we are talking about but often we aren’t.
My dad had that and the military took care of it for free because he was a retired military veteran. However, Clinton and Obama cannibalized military benefits so if dad was still alive, he would have had to pay.
@@GhostSal Health care in Japan is stellar. If I recall correctly, $25 per month covers everything including major surgery. I have several Japanese relatives and they are appalled at the health care costs in the U.S.
I live in Vietnam and the differences in cost and efficiency is jaw dropping. I can walk into an mri center, have it performed, read and given to me to bring to my doctor. The cost? Around 75 to -100 dollars. Drug prices? Pennies to dollars Eye care? Guy on the street does the exam, makes the lens and I pick the frame - 2 hour procedure and costs around 50 - 75 dollars. I will not be moving back anytime soon.
These SE nations are not the 3rd world countries many Americans look down upon, but America itself in many areas resembles 3rd world. Great move. We too call SE Asia our second home
My 3mo old son went to ER for fever (he had COVID) - because the nurses said was a very urgent emergency. I knew it was a waste of time, and he could be treated with low dose Tylenol, but whatever - my wife made us go. Then they said they need to complete a spinal tap to rule out meningitis. I said he has COVID, it's a positive test, and he caught it from my wife. Then they implied I was harming the child if I refused to allow a spinal tap. They pressured my wife but I declined. They then called some social services moron who no joke started lecturing me about child abuse. FYI - the risks of a botched spinal tap on a 3mo old is paralysis so I stated this and told them he has COVID, it's not needed. After arguing with everyone and the moron social service worker they sent him home with Tylenol. He recovered in about 20mins and that was it. 2weeks later they sent CPS round for an evaluation (nothing happened). Turns out major hospitals (Bostons Children's) discontinued spinal taps on COVID infants and the hospital in question was behind the curve. They sent CPS round to my house because their dumb procedures were outdated and I was right all along. Also - a neighbor had the exact same issue - they went ahead with the spinal tap and it cost the insurance company $9,000 for procedure and labs. AND they paid $3k out of pocket. And the kid had transient paralysis of lower limbs. Luckily he recovered. What a bunch of morons
you're a good and vigilant father. That hospital probably knew about the spinal tap guidance but were doing it anyway to milk insurance $$$. Happens all the time in healthcare--they run the gamut of expensive and unnecessary tests
I fell and broke 2 ribs early this year; went to my local ER, they did a general X-Ray of my chest cavity and confirmed I had to broke/cracked ribs. The ER doc said there is really nothing we can do, go home and take it easy. A few weeks later I received a bill from the ER hospital for $25,500.00 USD. I'm uninsured, no health care, and unemployed. I was devastated. Our health care system is broke, and people like me need help with getting insurance. It's borderline criminal to charge $25k for a 30 minute ER visit.
@@Bigf00t100as a single man I agree but for people with families that’s a little too tricky. I have no idea how much I owe those bastards but all I know is that those billing envelopes make pretty good kindling for my little campfires.
@@ThePalmettoProletarian I get it. Trust me but in all honesty how I’m the hell is anyone going to pay off 20-30k I’m debt. That’s some people’s yearly salary. When I got COVID, I had lost my job along with my insurnace and needed to go to ER. All they did was a simple blood withdrawal and told Me to go home and take Tylenol. Was there for like 3 hours TOTAL. Nothing major. Got the bill a few weeks later 22k. I literally laughed and threw it away and never paid it. They sent me some collection shit a few times but overall they just stopped coming. This ain’t the first time I’ve neglected hospital bills, sue me. I don’t have shit and I’m not about to spend my life and energy making money to pay off this ridiculous bill. That’s outrages. The system is broken, don’t sweat it man, just ignore it and don’t pay. Luckily it doesn’t affect your credit so it’s cool
Agree, the erosion of societal values in this country is partially to blame, along with corrupt govt and corporatism. Those things have greatly distorted the industry, and led to todays corporate culture of profits before people in medical.
Why would doctors run the hospital? If doctors run the hospitals, who is going to treat patients? It’s like saying how come astronauts don’t run NASA? Btw the hospital I go to is run by MD who is now the CEO and is no better or worst than any other hospital.
@@nepaliyuva408 He's saying that doctors do not make care decisions as they used to. Instead, they are now made by business executives who are not connected to the people, treatments, or medical decisions. Our healthcare system in America isn't even a free market like some claim - it's heavily restricted corporatism supported by the government. So no one faces any real consequences for their bad corporate decisions. It's why almost every industry has worse quality. Those corporatist types are vultures who rarely add value.
@@scratchpenny recently my mother passed away after 1.5 year battle with terminal Illness. We went through multiple hospitals and multiple doctors and at no point hospital executives were part of any decision making in terms of her care. At high level I can see they are making business decision but that should be no different in any point in time in history. Provide data that shows hospitals executives are making more decisions today than in the past in terms of treatments. Hospitals are businesses at the end of the day. Businessman should run business and doctors should treat patients. Politicians should do politics. Last businessman that tried politics is indicted of paying off porn star.
High costs have less to do with insurance companies than health care providers themselves. In any other industry, its illegal to charge different rates for the same testing and procedures, purely depending on the customer. Instead, we have hospitals who will charge as much money as each health insurance company can afford. Thats the racket. And hospitals are able to hide this by claiming that the prices they charge each individual health insurance company are TRADE SECRETS. The stupidity of this argument is beyond belief, and the only thing worse is that politicians accept that dumb legal argument in exchange for regular political donations. Every single hospital and health care institution should be legally required to disclose publicly what they charge everyone, so that insurance companies stop being overcharged, which just leads to the insurance companies passing the costs onto policy holders.
my favorite thing that blew my mine was when they showed the prices of the same procedure at several different hospitals in a city/state. One hospital would charge $200 and another would charge $2000.
I am an ER doc- here are the reason - out of the 125K patients that comes through an ER, only small percent can pay. so what they do is take the cost of running the ED and charge it to the people who can actually pay. in Med school and residency- we are taught to fix broken bodies. not prevent illness enough. lastly but mostly- we over treat, over test and over diagnose- because people love to sue and we have no option but to try to find everything wrong with you regardless of what is causing the issue. it is rotten.
Continually raising prices because only a small percentage can pay will only continue to make the system worse. Hospitals are a business focused on profits, and profits are made from acute health problems. Our medical system is not focused on prevention, but as you said, fixing broken bodies. We need a total overhaul that isn't so focused on bottom-line profits. Preventing 1,000 people from getting cancer brings in a lot less money than treating 1,000 people with cancer via hospitalized treatments, for example. Not painting you personally as the enemy, but this is just my perspective.
ALWAYS ask any nurse, doctor or staff who set one foot in your hospital room if they are "in your network"? If not they WILL take your house and every $ you have. I have seen it first hand. Be vigilant....
@@hugosalinasaliaga5266 homeless people don’t file bankruptcy. At my ER, almost every night a whole wing gets flooded with homeless who will make up any and all illnesses to have a place to stay for the night. 35 bed ER, at least 10 beds a night are homeless. Someone’s paying for those beds, and it ain’t them.
As a Canadian fully agree our quality sucks. But as someone who was in and out of the hospital every few months for some time I would have gone bankrupt and have lost everything in America.
Went to Portugal on vacation. My son fell and needed stitches on his chin. We went to a private clinic, paid 56 Euros. Total. Blew my mind. That would have cost $2K in the U.S. with insurance. It was then I knew we were getting ripped off.
Then factor in paying insurance $500 a month just for the privilege of having access to healthcare. The healthcare act in the US is a scam that was somehow made law. Required to pay for health insurance? What the actual? Meanwhile, in socialist countries like the UK, you can get cancer treatment for next to nothing. Oh well. The US needs to pay for all those drones and aircraft carrier battle groups somehow.
The public health care in Portugal is dogsht, I'm portuguese. Some people die while waiting for a measly appointment. More than half of our population has a private health insurance plan because they don't trust the public health system
Sorry I’m not American and I’m from a country with universal healthcare so this idea is honestly hard for me to grasp. But one question, how the effing even with insurance that you still have to pay that much in America? Then what is the point of being insured then 😭
I can totally relate. Ive had two shoulder surgeries but I still get frequent dislocations. Unfortunately, I sometimes need to go to the ER because I can’t pop it back in myself. When I go, I’m usually in and out in 30 minutes. No IVs, no anesthesia, nothing. Just a doctor moving my shoulder around for a few minutes until it pops back in. My last ER visit cost me $3,000 AFTER INSURANCE!!! Why even have insurance at that point. This is insane and possibly the biggest problem in America.
Without a doubt. There’s no justification for what we are getting charged for this shit. I spend $7000 a year on insurance for myself and my daughter and have to spend $6000 before it kicks in. I could drive a fucking Porsche for what I pay these cocksuckers. How this country hasn’t burned down the White House in relation to this is beyond me.
Insurance is a ridiculous concept. It's nothing but an excuse to inflate price. You get rid of the insurance system tomorrow, all services will suddenly be billed at operating cost which would 100% be affordable to just about everyone.
The worst part is that quality of healthcare here is not actually that good. We have some of the best docs in the world, but the average clinician available outside of major institutions is actually pretty substandard compared to other developed nations. Overspecialization too early in training means docs have very limited areas of expertise compared to count that require years of working as junior doctors before specializing.
@@sowososmooth False. The USA ranks 54th in Healthcare Quality. We have the most deaths caused by Drs. We are the highest in infant mortality in the industrial world! We are 12th in cancer treatment.
@Trevor Dylan Absolutely none of that addressed the very serious obesity epidemic within the US or even tried to compare the number of medical fatalities to the number of deaths caused by excessive over eating. Try again.
@@sowososmooth Your point was 100% false. You made an objectively false, and incredibly stupid comment. I corrected you by showing how Healthcare quality is the reason Americans die. Educate yourself if it embarrassed you.
Quality of care means nothing when most people can't even access that care without a significant, often crippling financial burden. My experience with doctors has been them being egotistical, money hungry shills for the pharmaceutical industry. I've also experienced far too much incompetence in American healthcare to say that we have amazing quality of care. I recently went to get some blood work done, they called me back over a week later and said it turned out they hadn't gotten enough blood from me so I need to go back in and have them redraw my blood. They also prescribed me antibiotics and told me to start taking them before they even got the results to see if I had this UTI type thing(which I had no symptoms for, I was just getting tested cause my gf had it). I didn't take the antibiotics because it's irresponsible to take antibiotics for no reason, and they're terrible for you. I wanted to wait to get the results. I was negative. Also, they didn't even want to test if I had it, they assumed I had it despite me having no symptoms and I had to ask for them to test me because I wanted to know for sure. I mean who wouldn't. Also, my experience with psychiatrists has basically been me telling them what medications I want and then getting them prescribed and having to keep going back for appointments to get the dose up to what I knew from the start was the effective dose for me. Then getting refills can be a huge hassle with certain medications. The entire healthcare system is just a nightmare.
He is right about having the best healthcare in the world, if you can afford the best place. My father is battling cancer, almost wants to give up on treatments to save our family from the financial burdon. Has been doing chemo for about 3 months, he is down about 30 lbs and weak. He fell the other day. And debated going to the ER even though he had hit his head on the concrete, and had a lump on his head, and his arm was all bruised up, and he was having trouble straightening his leg. And he kept saying "it would cost too much, I don't need to go." Even with insurance it's still stupid how much any form of Cancer treatment or emergency medical treatment.
I agree with alot of what you said...but yes as someone who just discovered this crap called specialty clinics for chronic issues and the refill hassle with that beingnmore than the normal situation. Im convinced the refill scam with psychs is simply so they can billa visit lol
@@docsavage8640 You obviously didn't watch the video where they clearly state why the costs are so high. Corporate greed. Obviously we need more government to interfere.
I was rushed into the ER one morning morning due to a heart condition, after injecting medication my heart stablized and they said they just need to run a couple of test that afternoon, and stay overnight just in case. They stalled and didn't do the test until later so i ended up staying for 3 days for no reason. The bill was $38k and i had to pay $12k after insurance. The most frustrating thing about the breakdown of the bill was that the total cost on my actual time on the ER was only $1200. The part that saved my life. The rest of the bill was just me laying on the hospital bed for 3 days for no reason.
I've had babies, surgeries, numerous hospital visits etc. in Australia and it cost nothing. Pretty decent care too although there are issues like anywhere else. There's still a private system for the picky people too
A question from ignorance, I am from Spain, here our healthcare was always public, in case a person cannot pay the cost of an operation or something similar, what happens?
@@menda3682 Cada caso es único,dependiendo del estado,el seguro médico(si tienes uno),el hospital donde fuiste atendido. Se te podrían dar plan de pagos a largo plazo o descuentos por demostrar que económicamente se te hace imposible pagar. Pero a la larga de alguna forma u otra tienes que pagar algo. Si no dependiendo donde vives esa deuda puede pasar a tu récord crediticio y arruinarte porque nadie te va a hacer préstamos o darte tarjeta de crédito por esa mancha que tienes. También podría pasar que esa deuda se la vendan a una agencia de colección de deuda y esos hijos de puta te harán la vida imposible hasta llegar a un acuerdo de pago.
Very good discussion discussing the pro and cons of both Canada and us health systems. I live in Canada and the wait times are absolutely atrocious. I can't even book a visit with my family doctor til like a month away. And the logic goes, if it's urgent, go to emergency. Well a lot of issues aren't urgent but requires medical attention somewhat within the week and there's nothing we can do. I don't see any reason why private health care should be banned when it will alleviate wait times to everyone involved. I know the concept of jumping the wait line with money is a bit of an ethical dilemma, but the end result is both sides gets lower wait times. People have to see the forest and not just the trees here.
Absolute bullshit. My mom was a Dr in Toronto. My wife is from Canada. Also I have read the WHO reports. The average wait time in Canada compared to US for surgery is 9 days Canada 8 days USA.
@@Yourmomshousemyrules It's not absolute bullshit, healthcare in Canada is all about waiting lists. For serious immediately-needed surgery maybe you can get in quick, but god forbid you get sick. I've been on waiting list after waiting to get into a sleep study for about a year now. I'm basically not sleeping at all and can't function during the day whatsoever because I wake up choking many times a night but the system doesn't see it as urgent. All specialists have minimum several-month waiting lists and once you get in, they usually do some incredibly half-assed 3 minute lookover and send you back out the door with no answers and you have to make another appointment with your GP where he puts you on another many-month waiting list (sometimes to see the very same unhelpful specialist again). I'm 26. I have had as-yet undiagnosed chronic health problems since I was a child, which have prevented me from finishing school, getting a job, or even having a basic social life. (This was greatly worsened by the two shots I got in 2021, which is a huge problem because our healtcare system is incredibly resistant to even acknowledge that possibility, so even talking about my health problems with professionals is a constant uphill battle.) I've spent basically my whole life on waiting lists and never getting any real answers about my health problems in between. (And plenty of wrong answers/psychiatric pill pushing which made things worse.) The only doctor who has started to make any real progress with my health problems is a private naturopath which my parents started paying thousands of dollars for over the past year. TL:DR it's nice that kinetic injuries are dealt with cheaply and quickly in Canada but everything else that you might want from healthcare is pretty much a write-off. A mirage intended to make healthy people think there will be help if they ever get sick.
@@cerebralm "I have a litany of health problems, so I went to a pseudo doctor instead of getting a genetics test" Move, then. Go be with the Americans. You can't work but mommy and daddy can fork out money for you. Must be nice. Most of us can't leave even if we wanted to.
The moment you open the gates for private enterprises to get a piece of the pie, that’s when prices start to go up and not just for the private sector but for everybody.
Medical bankruptcy is one of the most inflated claims in the US to generate hype for political purposes, while not having a very significant influence on bankruptcy filings. Bankruptcy filings are a result of multiple factors, and medical bills are nowhere near the top factor according to all the data I have studied. For starters, Elizabeth Warren’s cherry-picked study went to 2005, where there were only 1.45 million bankruptcies filed in the whole US including Chapter 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15. Only Ch 13 is for wage-earners, while Ch 15 represented the largest % of filings. The study expanded the parameters to include if people had missed 2 weeks of work due to sickness, had medical bills over $1000, and mortgaged their home to pay for bills. If bankruptcy filers fell into those categories, it was listed as "bankruptcy due to medical expenses", even if that wasn’t true. That’s less than half a percent of the overall population who even filed for bankruptcy. By adding those parameters, they fudged the data to indicate that 61% of the filers filed because of medical expenses. Another study in 2011 found that only 26% of Ch 13 filers said medical expenses played a role. Some studies said 57.1% while others said more people filed bankruptcy for medical expenses than overall bankruptcy filings, which is egregiously flawed. Not only can’t all Ch 13 filers be due to medical expenses, but Ch 13 can’t exceed all of the types of Chapter filings due to the dominance of corporate and foreign businesses filing bankruptcy each year. Ch 13 is only 27-38% of bankruptcy filings each year. Another thing is that personal bankruptcies are not a constant Y2Y. Personal bankruptcies peaked in 2010 at over 434,000 after the financial crisis, then dropped dramatically down to around 299,000 in 2016, 289,000 in 2019, and 194,000 in 2020. Chapter 13 Bankruptcies in US Year to Year 2008: 353k 2009: 398k 2010: 434.8k 2011: 417k 2012: 375k 2013: 343k 2014: 313k 2015: 302k 2016: 299k 2017: 296k 2018: 288k 2019: 289k 2020: 194k 2021: 117.7k 2022: 149k (.05% of the US population) Anytime someone presents a claim, automatically question whether that claim is even accurate, then do the research and understand the basic math. In the case of medical bankruptcy, it’s an extremely inflated piece of hype used by proponents of massive change to the overall US system, with no numbers to support it. It’s sensationalist hype really.
I was forced by paramedics to go to the hospital when I said I would be fine, but they said I had to go and be observed for 4 hours or they could be liable, I was placed on a stretcher in the hallway and a doctor came by one time and asked me 3 questions then left and I never saw him again. No one spoke to me again until they said I could leave. I received a bill totaling $3043.67. I received absolutely no treatment of any kind, just sat in the hallway and answered 3 questions. The doctor that asked the three questions charged $1453.00. Don't even know what the rest of the bill was for. Luckily I was able to receive some help through the county I live in but I still had to pay over $1500 out of pocket. There is no logic to it at all, they just make up numbers so they can get rich.
I had the same type of situation I got a 3k bill for just laying there with a really bad stomach pain I paid them NOTHING and never will it’s been 13 years the hospital I went to shut down
Wow that’s ridiculous. I wouldn’t pay for that. If anything I’d send them $1-5 dollars a month. Also you didn’t have to go. They lied to you. I’m pretty sure they can’t force you to do anything. Unless, you were going to harm yourself or others. Otherwise, they need a court order to take you to the hospital.
The numbers are super made up . That's also why it is so hard to get a price before hand too. I never understand how that is legal. Ive had offices tell me and this is knowing what insurance i have that we dont know but youll get a bill after its billed..... Bitch i need to know now cuz i need to know if im gonna be able to afford food for the next 5 months or not
This almost happened to my mother when I was growing up. My older brother told them we would press criminal charges for kidnapping if they took her. She was fully conscious and protesting. They acquiesced and backed off when he said that.
I was hospitalized for a recurring issue overseas (Philippines), my bill for 6 days was less than $4000 usd. This included ER trip, room, meds, xrays, and cat scans. I was in a private room and received the same level of care I have in the states.
@@mohamedalkaboom I do have medical insurance. The total billed amount was 4k, I paid less than $600 out of pocket. I am unsure of other countries, but would look into it if you are looking to have a procedure. Thailand is billing itself as a medical tourism destination now.
@@justinpeepee8454 thanks Justin. Only curious. I was also hospitalized in Manila a few years ago with a stomach problem while I was marrying a local there. It’s good to know how foreigners handle medical there, as wife and I will be spending part of every year in Philippines
You're absolutely right, this issue 😔 does require more attention and thorough discussions. It's important to raise awareness and ensure that people are aware of the seriousness of the problem! 💪🌍
I once had my lungs flare up due to a lot of stress caused from me getting fired from a very good job 4 months after buying my first home ... I was watching that Pixar movie with the silly little racing blue snail and by the end of the movie I was gasping for breath and leaning backwards, forwards or laying down on my back or my side felt like I was barely able to breath and gasping for air and it was getting worse and worse...I woke up my family at 2am and they rushed me to the ER. By the time I had gotten to the ER and the time I was sitting in the waiting room about 45 mins had passed and when the doctors did finally see me, whatever I was going through had calmed down a lot and I was able to breath a little easier and easier ...When They checked me out he told me it was most likely stress related due to be losing my job that day. I was kinda stunned and embarrassed that my body reacted the way it did as I was def bummed out and low on money but I was not hysterical or depressed over it or anything...They checked my blood pressure and that was about it. I t was a total false alarm and we just drove back home...few days later I got a bill in the mail for over $4k...for talking with the doc for 15 min and having my blood pressure taken. I took a corrections class where my instructor told me that all the inmates and prisoners all over America get free medical treatment paid for by taxpayers. He showed us a case with a very sick inmate who was very old and debilitated due and he had so many serious health issues and he showed us how NY state was paying close to 1Million a year in medical bills and special treatment to keep a convicted murderer's heart and kidneys working and he highlighted that if one of our mothers got sick with the same issues as the inmate the state would send their thoughts and prayers buy not spend a single $1 of that tax money to save out family It's shit like this that makes good citizens want to rage against the system...they could fix these issues in a few short years and alot of work and help many Americans if they wanted but it always comes down to $$$ in the end and they are always screaming about not having money but we see how the Pandemic, Banks crashing and the war in Ukraine showed us that these elites and law makers could easily whip up Billions of dollars out of the ether when they need too
I had a mrsa infection in my leg, 8 days in the hospital, i had 3 meals a day, 1 injection of pain meds, 1 of a blood thinner, and antibiotics. Thats it and i got first bill and it was 5k and i was like ouch, then more poured in and it ended up being almost 40k. My mom needed a liver transplant and it is a minimum of 500k , they wouldnt even put her on a list cause she didnt have funds or insurance to cover it. She got to see her grandkids a total of 2 times before she died.
@@spacebound2195 never had a panic attack personaly, but i could see how someone might not realize what was going on, could have easily been a heartattack. One of my jiujitsu students thought they were having a panic attack so they had a couple beers to relax and turned he had a blockage and had a heart attack. Luckily he survived.
I got paralyzed from the neck down in 2020 at the age of 21. After about four months in the hospital my bill was $1.3 million. Thank God my mom has good insurance.
German system: MANDATORY 10% of prescriptions but no more than 10€. 20€/day of hospital stay which covers EVERYTHING medical, room, food. If stay exceeds 20 days in any given year, cost/day = ZERO. Premium is 17% of salary or unemployment split between employer/ee like Social Security. Not connected to employer. I tell my employer who my provider is and they pay their share and mine. Penalty for leaving system and reentering: preconditions CAN be used to establish 'new' higher premiums. (cash penalty sucks) (motivates one to never break coverage) Available to all who earn under 100K
I was recently in India and my left wrist had been bothering me for a while. Decided to call up an orthopedic specialist(yeah can directly do that instead of needing a referral like in US), made an appointment for the same day. During appointment, got his consultation. Doc said, I needed to get an X-ray. Got the X-ray, he gave me his conclusion and next steps. All this in span of 2hrs and cost of less than $20 (consultation + X-Ray) And this wasn't some shop in a ditch, this was a reputed hospital in big city like Bangalore
@@trippinatormachine Exactly, but that's the point. The actual cost is practically nothing, but what we are charged is outrageous. My chiropractor is where I go if I need an xray. 60 bucks for a series of 6 x-rays. The Urgent Care 260!
I have a friend; an interpreter; who worked all over the world. He got to a point where he was coming to the US less and less, as he was afraid he would get sick or injured there, and anywhere else in the world he would get free healthcare. He said many workers and experts in other countries were afraid of going to the US for the same reasons. Oh, and they were SO confused how the show Breaking Bad was possible, because in any other country Walter White would have simply gone to the Dr for free treatment.
Kind of doubt you can just walk in and get treated as a foreigner. In Canada for example I don't even think you are covered across provincial lines. You definitely won't be covered if you are a foreigner visiting Canada.
Foreign dignitaries, members of parliaments, wealthy, and even cartel bosses come to the US for procedures they can't get in their countries. Your post sounds like some propaganda from a Russian bot farm, to be honest. I and my family have gotten Healthcare or procedures in the US and Europe. Public NHS in Germany, Finland, Sweden is trash so if you want fast results, you go to the private sector there and pay $100/15 minutes, otherwise you wait in the public hospitals forever.
I have an American friend who worked in England. After several visits to a hospital, and many misdiagnoses, she was finally diagnosed with cancer. The doctor told her to go back to the states where she had a chance to survive. "Free" unfortunately has a cost and impacts quality.
I used to live in a beautiful home in a great neighborhood after studying all my life, going to school and getting out of North Philly. I accepted a new job so I had a little over a month off before the new job started. I didn't pay the incredible cost of carryover health care because we were in our early 30s and we would be picking up the new company's healthcare when I started. Well... that was a huge mistake. I now live in Kensington, Philadelphia and have lost everything except for what matters the most, my wife. The jobs that I used to get check your credit score so now it's impossible to get a high end job in my profession. The system is NOT broken. it's working just as intended for the shareholders. Something needs to be done.
also don't listen to the credit sharks, they can't actually take everything from you, home/car are mostly protected, contact a lawyer and make a unified debt plan.
Might not mean much but I hope everything falls into place for you, and I'm sure it will. Have you thought about looking at employment around Europe? I'm sure your profession will have opportunities out here where you won't be held back by your credit score in the States. I had to do something similar when I was going through a rough patch and a move to another country helped me with a fresh start and a clean file. Good luck!
@@youngatheart7106 COBRA!!! That's it!! I couldn't remember the name of it. Yes, I was informed but it was SO very expensive just for the short time between jobs, and since we were young & not going to be traveling anywhere we decided to just wait for the coverage we'd have in just over a month. Like I said originally, big mistake. Those few thousands of dollars invested for that 0month of coverage would have made our lives go in a completely different direction.
I’ve worked in US healthcare for years. People avoid treatment until it’s too late, they DIE to avoid bankruptcy or homelessness. Our hc system RATIONS care through denials and high deductibles. EVERY other industrialized country has some version of universal hc (can include private options). Aging Boomers have overloaded every hc system recently, but universal hc still has better outcomes and longevity than the US.
I drove myself to the Emergency Room last year due to some abdominal pain which turned out to be a Kidney Stone. Was in the ER for 4 hours and was provided an IV with morphine and then released. They charged insurance $17,000 for my visit. Which I was responsible for $3,000 of. If I knew how much it was going to cost I wouldn’t have gone to the ER.
I’m from the uk and been in the US on and off for 1.5 years. I can not believe how bad health care is here. I have good insurance but it doesn’t matter sometimes. I find it incredibly stressful to navigate this system. I lived and worked in the Middle East with private health care and it was much easier.
It is incredibly stressful. The system actively disuades you from using it. That’s by design though, the insurance companies would much prefer you keep paying them without using their services.
I’m Irish, we have public and private healthcare. A two layered system where those who can afford it, pay and those who can’t don’t. It works, but has its issues too.
Doctor salaries have actually decreased directly due to less reimbursement from insurance companies and indirectly from inflation. Insurance companies, administrators and policy makers are a huge problem. None of these parties deliver care but leach off the system, driving up costs.
It's also the lawyers. We need medical legal reform. You have to limit what can be sued for and how much. Otherwise, you have these emotional settlement decisions raising costs to astronomical levels.
@scratchpenny I kind of agree until you draw it to extremes. Let's take a look at government Healthcare in America. The doctor doesn't get sued, just a tort claim against the government. Aka tax dollars pay for the doctors malpractice. I understand people wanting some form of socialized medicine, I'm just not sold. I understand being able to afford good Healthcare makes me biased. One of the things I like/liked(slowly changing) was the meritocracy of America. Was/is it perfect no? But it was/is pretty damn desirable for people who wanted the best
a 500cc bag of IV fluid costs $5 !! And he's talking absolute garbage regarding quality healthcare in Canada & other 1st world countries. e.g. best cardio-thoracic & neuro surgeons are Australian !!
If you do your research and challenge the cost, they will drop the bill dramatically. More often than not people just pay (or don't). I have been a nurse for 20 years and know what should be done and what most tests cost. For instance, my year old daughter was suctioned in the ER and they charged us 8k for respiratory life savings measures. I harassed the hospital for an itemized bill, looked up the ICD codes and challenged them. The actual cost for treatment rendered was around $80. Due to my challenge, the bill was dropped completely. Aside from billing errors, simples tests are marked up to exaggerate the price of care rendered. This is usually without the knowledge or consent of the treating physician. A CBC doesn't cost $500 but if they can get away with it...they will. Deep pockets have no heart.
Imagine if we had some kind of regulatory body that actually functioned and reigned in fraud and abuse against consumers by large corporations. Oh well, maybe some day.
Exactly. I know like with Cigna, they have negotiated rates that can be 30-70% knocked right off the top but it technically is the price that would never get paid. Like my asthma meds will say $500, Cigna Rate $150, my Copay is $15.
I work in a hospital. The amount of regulation is so insane, we have to hire tons of people to keep up with it. The amount of people actually taking care of patients is minimal.
A question from ignorance, I am from Spain, here our healthcare was always public, in case a person cannot pay the cost of an operation or something similar, what happens?
@@menda3682 They don’t get treated, thousands of them on the street around here, I’ve not met a homeless person without a serious medical problem they can’t get treated
I hear you. I work in air medical (life flight) and the regulations on us are insane. We get it from both ends, medical regs and aviation regs. The department I'm in was regulated into existence just a couple of years ago by the FAA. You're looking at $1 million in salaries added to the company at the snap of a finger.
@@smithdakotalee Do these homeless people have jobs? I would assume not, but if not, what keeps them from being on Medicaid? Sorry if this is an ignorant question.
@@menda3682 Sometimes they get the operation anyway but then have large medical bills following them and presumably their credit. Sometimes they can negotiate lower bills with the medical facility, on the basis that the prices are so high in the first place partially due to deals with insurance companies and to make up for those that don’t pay, among other reasons. Sometimes. (I’m no expert; I just know of a few cases like that.)
I had a public defender years ago who was really smart, hard working and dedicated. He got my charges completely dropped with zero probation or court costs.
It's refreshing to hear about professionals in the legal system who go above and beyond to serve their clients. It's great that they were able to achieve such a positive outcome for you, resulting in dropped charges without any additional penalties. Their intelligence, hard work, and commitment are definitely commendable.
My ex wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis the same year we were married. The first year she had that disease, the healthcare cost were over $1 million, and I am not even joking.
My friend's wife has MS. She has physical therapy, pain management, a multi-purpose chair, a chair crane for the car, a powered inclining bed, a doctor, and a part-time nurse. That is all paid for by the government. I'm happy for my taxes to go toward this than an over-bloated military or the pharmaceutical industry.
No lol she left me. If you look up multiple sclerosis and divorce, you never read about the person that has the disease that leaves. She had it for about three years and then in 2021 she decided she didn’t want to be married anymore.
I was called an abuser when I questioned the bullying nurses on the reasoning behind unnecessary tests they tried to give my 18-year-old daughter who was sent to the ER by urgent care. To be clear, this was a non-emergency, and she did not need to be there. I had an extremely high insurance deductible. They were telling her what tests they wanted to run and I advised her to not give permission until she spoke with me. They refused to allow me to speak with her apparently because she was 18 at the time. They would not allow her to charge her phone so she could call me and they would not allow her to use the phone in the ER. They kept repeating, 'her body, her choice' like she was pregnant or something. I simply said - great, send her the bill then. They shut up pretty quickly after that. She eventually ran out of there. Crazy
This is why virtually anyone with elderly parents travelling to the US for tourism is advised to purchase medical insurance because they'd be in a real fix if they were to require an ER visit. Scary af.
Here's an idea just don't pay 😊 In 2008 I was robbed by some gang members and stomped unconscious with my clavicle crushed and head split open needing staples. Somebody found me called 911 then I ended up getting life flighted to the ER. THEY SENT ME A BILL FOR 20,000 LOL!!! I was ever gonna pay that and never will I swear to God. You can't make me I dare them to try!!! 😊
@@carbon-based-lifeform9172 You should google "number of years for medical debt to go away" and look at the first result. You can probably get your debt dismissed.
This happened to me when I had to take my kid to the ER for a fever I couldn't control. At the time I didn't know ibuprofen and Tylenol could be used together as they dont conflict with one another. We waited 4 hours, they gave my kid Tylenol and ibuprofen, and they charged insurance over $7,000, $2,700 of which we had to pay out of pocket.
That's the saddest story I have heard so far! In China, a fever won't make you bankrupt nor would minor injuries. However, cancer would make you bankrupt. I couldn't believe that the healthcare system in America is so shocking! 😢
I appreciate Joe's call for healthy lifestyles and that would help the US to close the gap in lifespan with other rich nations. But our healthcare costs have little to do with our lifestyles. The last years of our lives is when all the crazy spending happens. That might be when Joe is ninety and some fat smoker is sixty, but if you get sick before you die, which almost everyone does, the healthcare system will take their toll. My grandmother lived a healthy and frugal life, but the over $1M spent by a hospital in the last WEEK of her life would have wiped out her (and my late grandfather's) remaining savings five times over if she wasn't well insured.
Great point. I also didn’t fully understand his perspective that there is 0% that goes into promoting healthy lifestyle and a lot that goes into body positive. There’s a lot to unpack there but, to start, how is that true? Is he talking about the messaging that comes from the government? Is he talking about the messaging from society in general? You know what I mean? It’s an argument that raises so many questions that weren’t answered.
@@BrandonRKH cause Joe lately has been leaning right in his view points. And his talking point is always to attack the “woke” aspect than addressing the actual issue.
So high? It’s because of “insurance” , which removes the positive effects of “supply & demand “ / “free market” . Compare that to DPC , and DPC prices, which are far less than “copay”
When u take your customers last dollar , they can’t come back !! Med industry has done this for so long, hence obama care , was designed to rescue the med industry financial, which is bloated and actually killing itself . Add to that some hospice killing patients for 30k incentive, they are running out of customers to loot
Last month our local news shared a story of Solano county couple in CA. A bat entered their home and as a preventative measure they went to their hospital ER. Each had a 15 minute consult, no labs just BP check and one shot each. Individual bill for the shot about $100,000. Total together about $201,000. The news story shared if they had waited until the outpatient clinic opened, it would have cost them $1,500 each instead, but waiting on possible rabies infection 😬
Wait a second. Were they even bit by the bat? This story is bizarre. There’s no way both were bit and the chance the bat had rabies is also very low. Either the hospital is corrupt for giving them “preventive rabies shots” (which isn’t even a thing) or these people are crazy.
As someone living in Europe, my mouth dropped when I heard the prices. If you hop on a plane and come here for the examination, you'd probably pay less, despite the travel and accommodation costs.
@Master Splinter he said about not being able to get mri and stuff. I hurt my knee, and my regular dr (not hospital, not ER) was able to send me downstairs to get an x-ray that day for it. Only waited like 20 mins.
Depends. I have eye issues. I looked at prices in Switzerland for treatment. Its already more than just getting it done here in the US (with insurance i have). Ive also never been to Switzerland but i know whe i was traveling Europe it was very expensive. That said yea prob Germany (acc where im prob going for this eye disease) and other place are prob better and more cost efficient and Switzerland is a big anomaly.. Edit: Also to be fair like the Doctor who invented this eye treatment and has some novel techniques is in Switzerland. So the quality of care is prob 5x better esp because the FDA didnt even approve it until like 10 years after Europe was doing it.
Ok so I have something to share as a brazilian: here we have part of our healthcare offered by the government through tax money, the quality varies drastically depending on where it's offered but on average it's really bad, almost useless bad. I had a kidney problem when I was 19 and my family had no private insurance, so we went to the public system first. We got the basic exams done in three days time in a private facility (our district has a public-private deal where they pay private facilities to use their machines, it's not so common countrywide, I just happen to live in an above average town), the exams were an xray, a blood test and an urine test. After the exams we got back to the doctor and he explained that I would need a cirurgy immediately because my condition was critical, In his own words I had 2 weeks at most until both kidneys fail. The thing is that there was a waiting period of more than 6 months to get the cirurgy done in the public system so that was not an option for me as I would surely die before then. I had to go to a private hospital that charged me around 25k BRL for it (most brazilians dont earn this amount of money in a year worth of work), I was lucky my grandad had this money saved and paid for it. Next day I has the cirurgy and everything went fine. Down here we see in the news everyday hundreds of people dying waiting for all kinds of medical treatment in the public system, it's a huge problem. Now we pay around 2k BRL/month for private healthcare insurance that covers pretty much anything, while still paying around 60% in taxes for public services that we cannot count on.
you are wrong , im brazilian too, we do have many problems, things could work much better, but on average its not useless bad, your case is very specifical, you were about to die
I was shocked at the costs of a colonoscopy & endoscopy in Austin. I still feel as if the billing was not 100% legitimate. I just kept getting more & more bills for months afterwards with another $200-$500 invoices for each one.
The thing is it is legitimate because there's no pricing regulation, the numbers are made up by the master charge list. Good luck finding out what is on that list though, the insurance companies don't want members to know
I went for a colonoscopy in S Korea. They found something and also performed a something-ectomy while I was under. Stayed in the hospital for 1 night after. Total cost: 200 bucks.
@@danielahern3560 As an American living in South Korea I can confirm this. I go to a big hospital regularly for a couple of reasons and my bills never went above $200. For those same treatments and checkups in America would cost me thousands.
I live in Sweden, I had to go to the hospital last Friday after work for pain in my stomach, had my appendix removed Saturday night, went home Sunday after getting served breakfast at the hospital. I had IV and painkiller for the whole stay. Got charged an "ER fee" of 500 SEK (49$). That's it. However, sometimes if you want something done that's not acute they don't really give a fuck. Then your better of going private and just pay for it. Had a thing that took me 5 visits to get nothing done at "state Hospital" while a private clinic checked it out and fixed it in one visit.
@@Phantus00 I too believe that government interference only raises prices. Eyecare in the US is privatized. It should be unobtainable according to that thinking, but it's cheap and quality. It seems that competing clinics take turns providing quality care for affordable prices. I know it seems counterintuitive at first to think that having no restrictions would result in better quality and affordability but that's what has been shown to happen. It's like reverse psychology
@@alvarnunez3215 are you saying no restrictions in theory could mean that another hospital could open up and charge 1/18th the price for an ER visit, still be profitable and take business away from other hospitals?
I am in the UK. Suffered a terrible accident, was basically dead, got airlifted, surgeries, a month and a half in the hospital and a lot of post-surgery care. Not a single pound was charged.
It costed alot but it cost the taxpayers as a whole, better than the US but the downsides are still there as opposed to a system where we all pay for ourselves.
@@ram89572 Same question I asked Ghost-fe1vp...how can you be so dense to not realize that your idea of how the world should work, would plunge it back into the dark ages? Someone has a terrible accident (i.e. not their fault) and your brilliant idea is to have him/her pay for that, in a system where most people live paycheck to-paycheck? Brilliant, just brilliant, I wonder why we ever invented insurance.../s
I did a data analyst internship at a company that medical providers and labs outsource their revenue cycling to. I was 31 when I took that job and I quit within a month. I have never in my life quit a job on the spot after the things i learned about health insurance there. I pity anyone who works *for* a health insurance company who still has their humanity.
My wife took my son to the local hospital because he wouldn't stop crying. She thought there was something wrong and couldn't figure it out. Once we got to the hospital he stopped crying. The hospital just had us wait in a room to see what would happen. We ended up going home after 45 minutes. About a week later we got a bill for over 5G. It was insane..... 5g for nothing
That’s free in Canada with the same outcome. What they are saying about the care is fake news too only your very top couple schools are better than ours
I live in Taiwan where there is universal health care. A typical ER visit with no treatment will cost like USD 10. My wife would have bankrupt us if we lived in US. She always insists on taking kids to the hospital whenever they got a fever.
Depends on where you went. If you went to the ER (not saying you shouldn't have), the rooms probably get charged the same rate regardless of what is happening in them (obviously negotiated with insurance, etc, but the fact that you are in the room having a procedure or sitting there doesn't change anything because you are occupying the room regardless). Then what's happening in them is charged at the rate for that procedure, I would assume. I know we were thinking about taking our newborn to the ER for something, but it was gonna be a min $1500, so we just waited a little longer and he ended up being fine. I had a motorcycle accident 12 years ago. I waited 5 hours to go to Urgent care to save money. Urgent care said they couldn't do stitches (WTF?), and they said I would need to go the ER for care. In and out of the ER in 45 min (thankfully, but with 8 stitches and a $2400 bill).
@@jameswalker590 it was the ER. Our son was only about 2 months old. Thank God the insurance covered it. But there was no procedure. We occupied the room for about 45 minutes and left
canadian here. 15 years ago I got spinal fusion surgery. they did a great job. when I call to see my doctor I'm booked in a week, and to get bloodwork I get a note and walk downstairs, wait like 15 mins. couple weeks later I have my results. I'm happy paying my taxes.
It’s usually more things like if u need imaging, that’s my experience in BC seeing a doctor is pretty quick usually a week or two it’s seeing specialist or imaging like MRI depending where u live, also depends the level of necessity and severity is, more severe things happen a lot quicker for sure
Exactly same I have CKD I have two doctors 2 nurses a social worker routine bloodwork done very efficient. This guy has no idea what he is speaking on and is trying to justify the quality of care for the money he spent. The poor cancer patients coming to the states as their last hope, they still die only in massive dept to their families..
In Quebec, you can consult a doctor in the day by calling early for booking. Most of the time, doc will see you the same day a few hours later. You pay around a hundred suscription for a year plus 75$ each consultation in that same year.
This stuff makes me so glad. I am very thankful that we have access to high quality care, but it is so crushing to have ridiculously high bills that are unpredictable. It would be one thing if you could get a ballpark estimate of how much things cost beforehand and could compare with other hospitals/care providers. It feels like a complete crapshoot; you never know how much it's going to cost and can never hold anyone accountable for over-charging (or incorrectly charging) you. My oldest son has had 4 or 5 asthma attacks in his life. It always happens on the weekend or in the middle of the night and we have been stuck going to ERs and urgent cares. The price for the same treatment has cost anywhere between $500 and $1200 (the ER wasn't the most expensive time either). We never know what the bill is going to look like, and for a family that doesn't have a whole lot extra it is very hard to fit these expenses into our life.
I don't know where all of you folks are getting this 'we have high quality care' stuff from. Maybe if you're rich you have access to that. But in my experience, the care sucks in this nation.
My sister was diagnosed with cancer in her early twenties, before her adult life really started. Now she’s in debt by tens of thousands of dollars. The cancer wasn’t her fault, and she wanted to live, so now she’s stuck with extreme debt for many years to come despite having health insurance.
Everyone who goes to the ER these days has a similar story about excess cost. I took my kid in to an ER because he had a little blood in his ear. They took us to the exam room, we waited five minutes and the doctor came in. We told her about the blood in my sons ear, she looked into his ear with her little flashlight tool and said to us, just a scratch, nothing to worry about. It took her all of five minutes in total. Our portion of the insurance bill was $2,800 so imagine what the actual bill was for those five minutes. Now assume the doctor can see 10 patients per hour and charge a similar rate that we were charged. Just our share of $2,800 would mean that that doctor is billing at a rate of at least 2 time $28,000 per hour. how many lawyers bill at a rate of $28,000 per hour, let alone double that (since the insurance company most likely had to pay at least as much as our share of the bill). Assuming 6 weeks of paid vacation and holidays per year and a 40 hour work week, that doctor could bill somewhere between $50 to $100 million dollars per year ([52-6] x 40 x 28,000 x 2). It does not make sense.
Sadly doctors aren’t paid well and most ER doctors are residents who are paid peanuts. To me it’s embarrassing that trained professionals that went to school for so long, are aprox 2-300k$ in debt and get paid 18$/h for 3-8y. The corporations who own hospitals and insurance companies are making money here plus pharma. Dental care is evwn worse.
I've always heard one of the biggest problems is all the people who aren't insured because they're not even legal residents never pay for anything so that bill gets kicked back to people with insurance.
Here’s the deal (as a Health and Welfare Consultant working for 15 years with employers, their staff, and healthcare costs)…..employERS own the risk, and ultimately are the payors of the policies and owners of the claims of their populations (not the carriers, contrary to what people may think). Carriers get a premium, then pay claims, but if claims are high, the EMPLOYER and their staff get a big increase. Think differently? If the premium isn’t paid, neither are the claims. Who, then, actually is responsible for the costs? In fact, many health carriers are now calling themselves health services companies instead of carriers. The ownership of the risk and payment responsibility comes to each employer. The Gov’t doesn’t own or care about (per policy) what happens to healthcare costs, ultimately. The ACA drove UP premiums. The transparency and no surprises act is a good move, however, unless employers enable staff to BE ABLE TO be healthcare consumers and seek out both quality and low prices (which are tied together in inverse, oftentimes, with healthcare higher quality tracks lower costs due to favorable outcomes, efficiency, and general economic market disciplines). Employers can and are already purchasing plans that are focused on healthCARE v reactively treating sickness, but the movement is grassroots. Most large Employers don’t want to disrupt models like the carrier ones. Small employers can reward staff with zero cost primary care, generics, urgent care, diagnostics, survey options, and much more) while providing tools for members to be true consumers . The fixes are HERE! Breaking out of the carrier shell and pivoting towards proactive care as a model and investment in the company (promoting good metabolic health has cascading benefits) is the only fix. Without different decisions and group benefits models, prices will continue to rise. I’ve evaluated over 1,200 employer groups and read niche industry books to learn how healthcare is fixed. My two (or two thousand) cents, here!
My father, a doctor that works overseas, had an ear infection while visiting the US. Overseas, he would simply go to the pharmacy and tell the pharmacist he has a simply ear infection. The pharmacist would sell him a $5 drug. No fuss, no doctors, no insurance, no BS. In the US, he had to go to a doctor and pay $350 for a 5 minutes consultation for the obvious diagnosis and prescription. Then go to the pharmacy to fill the prescription from a "pharmacist" who just drops the ear drops into a paper bag and pay another $350. $700 total for what costs $5 overseas. This is criminal. The quality of care isn't better than other even less developed countries. Don't be fooled by that. Insurance companies, drug companies, hospitals and even doctors are thieves in the United States.
That's cap. Sorry there's just no way you paid $350 for them. Urgent care visits are typically $100-150 self pay and no common antibiotic eardrops cost that much. The brand name stuff like Tobradex might be that much but they would automatically use the generic. If you're a foreigner or without insurance the pharmacy apply a cash discount card and you shouldn't be paying more than $50.
Yeah sorry but I'm calling bullshit. I've lived on the US all my life. I carry a high deductible plan so most of the medical care I get I pay out of pocket for. An office visit even at one of the walk in places which are more expensive is maybe 150 tops and even without insurance there is no way he paid 350 for antibiotic ear drops. Those cost like 50 bucks. Not to mention with the prevalence of telehealth you don't even need to go to a doc in person for something as simple as an ear infection. You can have a virtual visit for $40 where I live, just tell them what's up and they will send the prescription for something simple like ear drops.
@@TheFlyingCougar you're the kind of person who just doesn't listen but guess what that wasn't bullshit because I have many friends who get screwed like that all the time with their health insurance. The system is beyond broken and is only for profit.
Most people on the usa like to blame big corporations like insurance companies without ever blaming the doctors and medical providers who are the ones charging the high fee.
This is such an interesting issue. A friend of mine is a surgeon and specializes in chronic pain. He said that most hospitals he works at have been decimated by the pandemic. He said that during that time he barely saw anyone in the hospitals (that he worked in from West coast to East), and it prevented people from being able to get procedures like surgeries and what not which is what generates the income for these hospitals.
They compensated for it with putting people on vents and diagnosing everyone they could with Wuhanflu, triggering Federal funding. Many hospitals operate on revolving Medicare Plan A payments to keep them solvent, with idiot hospital directors who embezzle funds for a few years, then move to the next one. If we audited Medicare, it would shake Congress because there is a massive scam being played on the people, and Congress is eyeball-deep in it.
I live in Australia. Our healthcare is amazing. Public health care is all completely free including surgeries and all. Private health care which most people have in australia. You can go to a private hospital and pay the excesses. Advantages to private is better quality , nicer and private room and emergency room is no where near as long as a wait as public . Also our medicare system and private health takes off like 50% of all doctor appointments even including psychiatrist and psychologist.
I agree, health care is amazing here. Ive had to take my daughter to ER twice in the last few years, without cost. Reading some of these stories of massive bills for ER visits in the US is blowing my mind.
yeah, us Canadians have everything covered for free also. might be a bit of a wait if you're not in life threatening condition. .. but from reading the american comments. .. i'll take the wait time over blowing my life savings.
@@villiantwo the wait time in Canada is a problem, but it’s a much better problem to have than going completely bankrupt all because you dislocated your shoulder. I love my country but holy moly the healthcare system is run by sociopaths.
3 months in Hospital, another month in a hospital recovery unit and another 5 months of feed pump rental and 5 months worth of liquid food and home care nurses. Total cost $0, I love Australia!
A rabies vaccine for my son cost over 8 K at the Mount Sinai Hospital in Miami Beach. A $600/month premium did not cover it according to insurance co…. We Americans are being taken for a ride, an expensive one.
I was in the hospital for 2 days in Finland. Had iv, medication and tests run. It cost 240€ ... and I'm not even a Finnish citizen. Most of the U.S. hospitals are run like businesses and businesses are to make profit.
I've had 6 MRIs over the past 5 years (New Zealand and th UK) for a benign but growing tumor, culminating in Cyberknife radiotherapy in November. Sure I pay a portion of my salary in national insurance here in the UK, but it's really miniscule given I'll get access to any needed treatment without additional cost. Our system is being brought to it's knees by political neglect and it isn't perfect but I'm grateful we have access to such great treatment without fear of financial ruin.
Once you whip out your insurance card, the hospital charges the full amount and gives you the “discounted” price that you pay. The hospital legally can’t tell you that and sometimes your copay ends up being more than what you would’ve paid if you went with cash
I live in Canada. I once injured my knee while playing soccer. I went to the hospital and received great care without having to pay a penny. However, I did have to wait an hour or two since other people had more serious injuries. After talking to the doctor, he recommended getting an MRI, which was done within 7 days. Again, I paid zero dollars. The system here is not perfect, but it is certainly fairer and more accessible than in the USA.
This is my experience with the health care system in Michigan. Since Covid, I have experienced long waiting times and lines in the emergency room, waiting for days for a room to be admitted into the hospital and crazy costs and bills no one understands. It has become one of the worst systems. The medical field and insurance companies' intentions are to keep people ill and not to make them well because it is not profitable. I am not an expert in the medical field, but I have two engineering degrees with a minor in business and business, I do understand.
Fanica Kibner private insurance companies keeping people ill and profiting. 100% the reason USA healthcare sucks. well said. There is NO party or political group fighting against the private health insurance companies. We're all stupid, including me, to have believed the democratic party was fighting on our side for healthcare......while simultaneously taking massive donations from the private healthcare industry.
Yeah, I am in Michigan too. It's horrible. I argue that even the quality aspect is declining unless you are mega-rich. The US healthcare system is unsustainable.
Yep, these are things that people try to use against the idea of free healthcare in other countries. Not saying it's the solution cause I really am not educated on this subject, but it's just ironic.
In Michigan all the big health care corporations merged. Now we basically have one giant Hospital company owning most hospitals. It's all about $$$. Just wait until someone you love dies because the Hospitals made more money on them being sick than healthy. Michigan hospitals are effing horrible. Anyone saying socialized medicine is worse, I have to ask "how could it be?". Our health care is as bad as any 3rd world. The profit margin encourages doctors/hospitals to keep people ill.
Thank you Joe for bringing awareness to this huge problem I am one of the many many many Americans that is in so much death from medical bills that I can never get financed to do anything therefore I am forced to work week-to-week paycheck-to-paycheck to try to pay these bills off
File for medical bankruptcy. It will take your current medical bills (and other debt) away as well as any medical debt you incur while you're going through it. Stop struggling.
I moved to Poland several years back & there is a mix of BOTH private & public healthcare here. Everyone has public healthcare, but employers offer private insurance as an extra benefit of working at a certain company. When I had really bad food poisoning & needed fluids, but it was difficult for me to leave my house, a nurse made a house call & gave me the fluids I needed to start feeling better. This was part of the private insurance plan. The public plan wouldn't do anything like this. I used this service once again when I got shitfaced & was so hungover that I couldn't get out of bed.
I wonder how many preventable deaths there are because people refuse to go to the Hospital or see a doctor because it will put their family in debt, or won't go until something is really really wrong which could have been treated easily if caught earlier etc.
This issue is complicated. Another big factor in the high costs of liability insurance for hospitals and healthcare workers, etc. Not just the actual dollars for the insurance policies, but also out of the sheer fear of being sued. This creates a mindset where the providers order tests and procedures that are unnecessary. It’s huge billions of dollars business for attorneys on both sides of the equation. I retired early from my almost 30 years as an Emergency Physician for this same reason.
James Dozier feels just like the gold rush in california... once money is to be made, all the cockroaches comes in to profit off us! people will always get sick, so each industry found a way to leech off us!!!
It's all admin fees. I'm not exaggerating when I say that hospital bills are inflated up to 30x JUST because insurance. 1) they know they'll pay whatever they're charged and 2) the hospital has to hire thousands of admin staff to work with insurance companies for billing purposes. Those prices simply get passed on to you. And then insurance companies, will do everything in their power to NOT pay it. I had to deal with an insurance company over an ER visit for damn near 18 months before they finally paid it after I threatened to get lawyers involved. By the end of the ordeal, I had paid more in my monthly insurance payments than they paid out, and I spent hours of my own time on the phone with the hospital and them. Had I not been forced by the government to have insurance, I would have just paid the bill out of pocket, and it would have been cheaper.
Why do we compare ourselves to just Canada? Why not France or Italy, which have been rated number one (or top 3) a number of times. The problem here is the focus is for-profit and not care. Look up “dollar bill” McGuire, he made billions and paid his employees bonuses to find ways not to pay for people’s care (even life saving care that was needed). Also we aren’t number one in quality, that all depends on what specific care we are talking about but often we aren’t.
I’m so happy you guys are having a nuanced conversation about this topic I was forced to leave college early due to poor health from a concussion that I suffered during basketball practice for the school and was unable to continue going to school because of the medical bills
Nuance... Love it. The lack of raging Bernie Sanders level of conversation on the topic is beyond me. I hear something like this happening to a fellow Canadian and I'm going straight to the local councillor, writing the mayor, visiting our member of Parliament, and stalking the provincial MP in protest. Y'all got to put down the 3D glasses and stop making it a blue and red issue and fix this nonsense. No. Playing basketball shouldn't be too risky. No you shouldn't have to choose between school and poverty. Wtf. Nuance?
Wow. What you described in the beginning costs less than $20 here. I don't even bother with insurance since private Healthcare is so cheap (went for an mri, was inside the machine within 25 minutes, cost $90).
I remember about 10 years ago reading portions of a book by Jason Fung I think. I'm paraphrasing but he said something to the fact that healthy food and fasting could improve peoples health and cut the mortality rate associated with heart disease, obesity, and diabetes in half. I'm not sure if Jason Fung has been on the JRE but I would enjoy seeing/hearing that conversation.
Living in the UK, my healthcare costs are free at the point of service for ambulances and any medical consultations. I have to pay a yearly subscription of roughly $140 for as many medications as I need in that time and I'm due surgery, which will cost me nothing. I wish it were the same everywhere.
I moved from Europe to the US and I make a LOT more money and enjoy a MUCH better lifestyle here. My insurance is covered by my union and I only pay $5 copay for doctor visits. I would never go back to live in Europe.
Yeah but our model is collapsing under the weight of an increasing and aging population. The average wait time for an ambulance is in the hours now, you're lucky if your scheduled cancer surgery is months away, A&E rooms are basically glorified triages. I love the NHS but it's been a slow motion train crash since 2000.
Do you pay taxes? Then your health care ain't free. And the NHS is garbage system, who's real purpose seems to be job creation for paper pushers these days
Ok but don't act like there aren't waiting lists out the wazoo for backlogs. That it can be like hunting for a unicorn to find NHS dentists in alot of areas. That many maternity trusts are being held accountable for disgraceful care leading to deaths in child birth because of dogmatic insistence to have natural births in order to save money on use of specialists. "Free" ain't free and it isn't necessarily high quality when you need it most.
At the age of 62, our health insurance premium for my wife and me, is $21,600 with $14,000 deductibles. In spite of us having no chronic health issues and not on any prescription medication. Health insurance cost is outrageous and insane!
I’m Canadian and just spent 9 years in the US. I can attest that he is 100% right on his assessment of cost, quality, and accessibility comparisons between both countries. Excellent discussion!
I’m American living in Canada and my Canadian wife, who I met living in America, hates Canadian healthcare and we drive to Buffalo to get our healthcare using my American insurance.
@@Drew-The-Philosopher the wait times (9 months to get an ear nose and throat specialist appointment in Ontario) and it has also become clear to her after she spent a decade in the US that the Canadian system saves money by general practitioners erring on the side of ignoring problems/concerns of the patient.
I work in the medical field doing laboratory work for over 20 years. I have seen Tylenol pills that cost 1.5 cents get charged $1.50 each and they give those things out like candy. Lab tests are expensive because the reagents needed to run those tests are not cheap at all. Most people do not know what is going on when they are hospitalized and the doctors know this, so they run a lot of unnecessary tests that have nothing to do with the patient's condition so they get paid for it. Nurses are also complicit in this since they never question physician orders when they should. You can go to urgent care and get a bill from the clinic, plus you can get a separate bill from the physician themselves, and that is legal. The healthcare system in America needs a massive overhauling but that will never happen. Way too many people make way too much money to change it.
It's a near-century of planned anti-american politics, trends, and people. This is the consequence of evil, so if you want nothing to do with it then actually show it by disengaging from modernity. All of history wasn't so comfortable, and we have the blessings of having pieces of modernity alongside satisfying our subconscious, primal needs. Find your comfortable way to live if you truly don't like it, or at the very least don't talk down on those who do it and seem crazy to those spending a fortune on nonexistent services
@@jayerbee7147 The real Great Reset is coming and most don't understand it will be with SOLAR Eruption and nothing can be done HENCE GUBBERMENT is trying to get on top of it to have control on the other SIDE....just like all times before!!!!💯
I live in Europe and from 2006 to 2015 I was working for a billing company that works with hospitals and helping them billing patients...I was amazed and could hardly believe that for a regular exam... simple stuff , you had a cold or anything simple and the bill for that was around 8time higher than where I live...amazing...another thing is you actually need to pay if you call an ambulance! Mesmerizingly out of control
where in Europe ???I am in Germany, in Hospitals, you may be paying 10 euros per Day , if you call an Ambulance also 10 euros or nothing if is ....heart attack or life life-threatening issue. All other exams and treatments are paid for by health insurance. Private Insurence is little diffrent
I live in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. I had a Stemi-heart attack at my home mid-week around 10 am. My wife called the ambulance and they arrived in 10 minutes. The paramedics gave excellent care and had me diagnosed in minutes. I arrived at a cardiac specialty hospital in 20 minutes, I felt like a F1 driver pulling into the pits. The cardiac team was prepared and very fast acting. They inserted two stents in minutes. All I have to say is that the care I received was 11 out of 10 all the way. Everyone from the paramedics to the cardiologists were very professional and caring. I owe them my life. Due to the quick response I am feeling much better and on the road to recovery. Oh, by the way, I paid nothing out of pocket for all the treatment and follow-up care. I did, however had pre=paid it through higher taxes over the years. No bankruptcy for me.
I've been to Vancouver for a holiday from europe and collapsed in the street. Brought to the hospital by ambulance and was released 7 hours later. Excellent care. the bill was 1000,- which I had to pay up front, not being a citizen. Got it all back from my insurance back in Europe.
…East Van resident here to remind you that it hasn’t been pre-paid enough or else the Provincial/Federal Governments wouldn’t be running chronic fiscal budget deficits for decades with the resulting monetary inflation being a major contributing factor towards so-called “unaffordable housing”…, but best of luck to you recovery, eh!
@@Chris-hb6jt it likely did. I'm Canadian and this stuff isn't unheard of... However, if you had a pain in your chest that was nagging you for a couple weeks, and you went to the doctor about it, he'd book you for a scan, and you'd have to wait 2 years. No joke. Emergent care can be quite good. But the rest of the system is fucking slow and crazy.
In the UK treatment is free at the point of use because the government provides cover for all paid for via a “National Insurance” that all working age people pay as a percentage of earnings. So rather than pay an insurance company you pay the government to provide your care in their own facilities. There is no profit incentive in the system as the government own the hospitals, the staff are government employees and the purchasing power of the government (i.e. drugs etc.) keeps cost low. Records are central so you can be treated anywhere and they have your up to date records. The only paperwork you’ll be asked for is to sign a treatment consent form. Public health improvement schemes are a priority as it directly benefits the country by reducing government spending on health. However, if you want “private” medical treatment you are more than entitled to use the many private health providers and either pay directly or take out private insurance. But the costs of even this is relatively low compared to the US because people have a free alternative and just wouldn’t pay the extortionate costs considered normal in the US. When you become ill your main concern should be getting better, not worrying about how you’ll pay for the treatment you need.
I worked on auditing the financial structures of healthcare facilities for four years. Just in that span of time I was able to see the insane prices people pay for different levels of care. The insurance aspect of it still makes limited sense to me and “base” prices change multiple times through out the year for no particular reason. I just hope for a healthy life, and I hope others are able to stay healthy as well. I have seen how serious medical emergencies can completely cripple someone financially, let alone the emotional burden of having to go through a medical emergency itself. I have to imagine that rising costs of living, costs of supplies, overhead, and especially the costs of contracted employees which is outrageous (since getting anyone to stay at a job right now is impossible) are key factors in the high prices of care.
@@VinylCP Citizen of what nations? I’ve lived in many of them and used their healthcare. None compare well with the US, even Canada, Finland, Germany, or Sweden. Guess who foots the bill for protecting those nations militarily?
I am will be graduating this May with a degree in Healthcare administration, and after everything I’ve learned in classes and through my internships I cannot say that I want to build a career in healthcare due to the broken system. Our nation prioritizes profiting off the little man instead of investing in public and preventative health. There is no reason why someone should be billed $500 for a check up with their physician. The government needs a wake up call or we are all doomed.
Where are you going that you pay $500 for a standard doctor visit? My doctor charges $125 for a non insured person to have an appointment. That's a far cry from $500. If you want to fix Healthcare then you need to remove the incentive for outlandish bureaucracy and get the government out of the business of it.
@@ram89572 that’s what someone I know got charged from an office visit to Sutter health in SF. Their insurance didn’t cover it because they hadn’t reached their deductible yet.
@@ram89572 So you think profit should be the prime motivation in healthcare-administration? To my european ears that sounds really unhealthy tbh. Private health-insurance comanies love bureaucracy btw as it prevents competition so they can keep robbing you blind.
@@iliketoast-q9b And what is government mandated public healthcare - theft plain and simple. Someone forcing their hand into my pocket to steal my labor to distribute to a bunch of other shitheads as they see fit. Government anything is evil. I fully expect that you claiming to be european would love communistic crap like that. Socialism is communism by a nicer name because I do not get to voluntarily engage or disengage with that system. The state uses a monopoly on force to compel participation in that system and steal from the individual. Taxation is theft. Government is evil. Centralized government power is the most evil. And you know something else. You can choose to not engage with private healthcare (at least you could before Tyrant OFuckFace enacted his OFuckerCare) if you are worried about them "robbing you blind." You can also choose to not engage with overly expensive treatments and accept that you might die sooner. It is not incumbent upon me to pay for you to live a little bit longer. Just like I don't expect you to pay for me to live longer by me sending an agent to steal from you and cry "THE GREATER GOOD! PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE"
As a canadian i had 2 knee surgeries in 2022. Didn't cost me anything, awesome cares and gov is helping me to get back on my feet. God bless my beautiful Canada
I’m American, I lived in Switzerland for a few years and their insurance system is PRIVATE and it’s incredible. And, it does NOT cost an arm and a leg. US policy makers should look into their system, because it can certainly work in the US, BUT we’d need to get rid of the corrupt back-door contractual prices and that’s something no one wants to do.
In Switzerland the health insurance is provided by private entities, but it is highly regulated by the state, while in the usa it is optional and almost entirely market driven.
@@mislavsprajc669 Yes, that is the difference in a nutshell. When I learned how they calculate premiums, I was shocked because this could be easily implemented in the US.
Every time I get an inclination to move back to the states (I live in Amsterdam now) I think of healthcare and snap TF out of it. Blew my mind to walk out of the doctor's office and not have to worry about rent because of how much my hospital bill was
My son had to spend 1 week in the ICU and another 2 weeks in the hospital. No surgeries. Hospital bill was about 600k. Insurance paid all but 3 grand. Lots of crazy charges like 9 grand for a EKG.
We need to figure something out. For so many Americans to be unable to get medical care while we pay billions in tax dollars for wars we didn't agree to is insane
who's "we"? got a mouse in your pocket? vote.
Then vote out the warmongers.
price gouging.
Nothing better than an 18yr old eager little who re.
@facepalm486 stop being afraid.
My mother had a kidney stone that almost killed her and she had to stay in the hospital for about a week. The bill was just over $100K. My family had to file for bankruptcy and it took about a decade to recover from it. One little health issue and you're financially devastated in this country.
America is a joke.
I'd rack up as much debt on every possible credit card I could, take out loans and then move out of the country.
legalize all drugs, get rid of doctor licensure, and turf ownership in hospitals. and abolish the FDA. Remove intellectual property laws. We will then have the least expensive care in the world.
@@kingkong1040 not that easily sadly. youd have to have a good plan to dissappear
@@TheGoreforce or you could just do a mixed or single payer system like most civilized places instead of this ridiculous shit youre saying.
My daughter had to be taken to the ER at 1 years old and cost me $60,000 out of pocket after insurance. I just now paid that off after 14 years. This is insane no one should have to deal with a life event like this and the stress of paying what they make in a year.
thats insane.
Wtf
AFTER insurance? This is terrifying. Is it really like this in the US or am I missing something?
Just curious, what type of insurance did you have?
Exactly. Sorry but that story sounds fake. Even horrible insurance covers more than that.
When I was in the US I was shocked at how many commercials they had for drugs. Just constant drug commercials. Unbelieveable
Oh, you noticed that too? We have commercials for everything in the US, even drugs! It's like they're competing for the title of the catchiest side effects. It can be pretty entertaining, I must admit. But hey, at least we know all the potential solutions to our imaginary medical problems now!
Its annoying!
@@Tricia-Tricia 🤣its driving me nuts sometimes i dream of ozempic at night i cant get rid of the song in my head🤣
It didn't used to be that way! Only the past few years have these commercials started to dominate everything else on advertising. We don't like it over here either, they are coming up with drugs for the most unusual afflictions and paying high advertising costs. But the drug makers must feel it's worth it to them. It's gotten way out of hand.
It’s a good thing
Health Broker here, here are some tips:
1. Unless you are dying, go to Urgent Care. Stay away from Emergency rooms. Urgent care is 1/10 of the price and can offer most procedures up to broken bone.
2. If you are in the emergency room, always ask for the cash price, and then ask the billing office which charities are on file. Many charities will pay portions of medical bills to help those in need it's a huge help.
3.If you have insurance look into an HSA. It can be a huge help in case of emergencies.
The health care system is a scam. Its catered to big business and even ACA plans are horrible. Look into private PPO's and HSA's.
This comment needs to be up much higher...
Finally a constructive comment. Thank you!
@@AbcDino843 The last few sentences contradict half of your posted views on this page. The American health care system is a big business scam. A handful of degenerates are making boatloads of money off of your suffering.
@Dan Therman yes, if you happen to need charity. That's essentially what nationalized healthcare is.
Thanks for info
I work at a health insurance company and let me tell you how depressing it is having to navigate this monster of a system even as a trained professional. I would happily give up my career so that the people I genuinely try to help wouldn’t have to deal with companies like mine anymore
I wish more people were like you. I have a friend who has been a programmer for an insurance company for like 4 or 5 years now. He has automated like 40% of jobs at premera and they are making shit tons more because he brought them into the 21st century. I always joke he works for the worst people ever and should take it all down because he could if he wanted to. That company is a monopoly but when your incentive is a lot of $$$ people will do anything sadly.
The problem is you though, if insurance employees stood up and picketed they would think about change but you make it possible for them to gouge citizens
Everybody I ever talk to in the insurance sounds as exacerbated, frustrated, and confused as I am when I call them for help. Insurance in America is a frucker clust.
@@Girtharmstrong69 That is not really true. They would outsource the jobs to some poor foreign country to do the same thing. And because those people are starving and need to work, they would gladly screw over Americans for a chance at a better life.
@@Girtharmstrong69 him and the workers aren’t the problem it’s the fact that it’s part of the law which he has no control over. Hence it’s the government fucking shit up once again and here you are blaming this guy who agrees with everyone that the system is shit
I had a 10 minute CT scan, saw a physicians assistant (never a doctor) for approx 15 minutes, bill was $8000 of which we had to pay $2400. Knowing this I honestly wouldn’t have gone to the ER, didn’t really want to but I feared I might have broken a hip after falling 12 ft off a ladder. Our medical system is a joke, people have creditors hounding them, often go bankrupt, and for decades we have acted like this is normal.
Medical bankruptcy is one of the most inflated claims in the US to generate hype for political purposes, while not having a very significant influence on bankruptcy filings. Bankruptcy filings are a result of multiple factors, and medical bills are nowhere near the top factor according to all the data I have studied. For starters, Elizabeth Warren’s cherry-picked study went to 2005, where there were only 1.45 million bankruptcies filed in the whole US including Chapter 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15. Only Ch 13 is for wage-earners, while Ch 15 represented the largest % of filings. The study expanded the parameters to include if people had missed 2 weeks of work due to sickness, had medical bills over $1000, and mortgaged their home to pay for bills.
If bankruptcy filers fell into those categories, it was listed as "bankruptcy due to medical expenses", even if that wasn’t true. That’s less than half a percent of the overall population who even filed for bankruptcy. By adding those parameters, they fudged the data to indicate that 61% of the filers filed because of medical expenses.
Another study in 2011 found that only 26% of Ch 13 filers said medical expenses played a role.
Some studies said 57.1% while others said more people filed bankruptcy for medical expenses than overall bankruptcy filings, which is egregiously flawed. Not only can’t all Ch 13 filers be due to medical expenses, but Ch 13 can’t exceed all of the types of Chapter filings due to the dominance of corporate and foreign businesses filing bankruptcy each year. Ch 13 is only 27-38% of bankruptcy filings each year.
Another thing is that personal bankruptcies are not a constant Y2Y. Personal bankruptcies peaked in 2010 at over 434,000 after the financial crisis, then dropped dramatically down to around 299,000 in 2016, 289,000 in 2019, and 194,000 in 2020.
Chapter 13 Bankruptcies in US Year to Year
2008: 353k
2009: 398k
2010: 434.8k
2011: 417k
2012: 375k
2013: 343k
2014: 313k
2015: 302k
2016: 299k
2017: 296k
2018: 288k
2019: 289k
2020: 194k
2021: 117.7k
2022: 149k (.05% of the US population)
Anytime someone presents a claim, automatically question whether that claim is even accurate, then do the research and understand the basic math. In the case of medical bankruptcy, it’s an extremely inflated piece of hype used by proponents of massive change to the overall US system, with no numbers to support it. It’s sensationalist hype really.
Damn, 10 minutes of CT scans? That's like a couple of atomic bombs going off in your body giving you harmful radiation.
@@LRRPFco52 Not really the main point but I apologize if that term was misleading, I'm sure your figures are correct. The main thrust of my post was the absurdity of medical costs and the stress it places on Americans, financially and emotionally.
@@skatetoexplorevideos2477 LOL 10 minutes in the room, maybe 15 seconds of scan. Thanks for the laugh, that was funny.
@Nick Yankee These are the types of studies I’m talking about that count on people not looking up the numbers. It’s not possible for 530,000 families to turn to bankruptcy when only 229,703 Chapter 7 filings and 149,077 Chapter 13 bankruptcies were filed in 2022. Somebody is lying, and it isn’t the US Bankruptcy Courts statistics.
The worst year since 2008 was 2010, with 1.146 million Ch 7 and 434,839 Ch 13 filings. That was because of the sub-prime housing Markey with variable rate mortgages, not medical bills. Ch 7 & 13 filings dropped dramatically since then and most Ch 13 filings are due to mortgage default, auto loans, credit card debt, and a series of financial factors that contribute overall to households seeking Ch 13 protection.
Those studies (that say anything over 26% of Ch 7 & 13 filings are due to medical bills) manipulated the data to include if the earners were off work for 2 weeks or more, were injured during the year in question, and things not related specifically to their filing.
Even we add up all Chapter 7 liquidation bankruptcies and Chapter 13 wager earner bankruptcies, we don’t reach this 530,000 number since 2020 unless over 88% of bankruptcies were due to medical bills in 2020, and 124% of filings in 2021 (not possible):
2020 Ch 7 + Ch 13 = 603,548
2021 Ch 7 + Ch 13 = 428,381
2022 Ch 7 + Ch 13 = 378,780 filings
In reality, there were more likely 98,780 Ch 7 + Ch 13 filings combined where medical bills were the major factor, on top of bad debt/income ratios, especially with credit card bills and crazy auto loans.
Medical providers generally work with people on a payment plan, which should not even be a thing because we have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, ACA, and private providers. Medical debt bankruptcy is generally more of a story about bad personal finance, not an inherent problem with the healthcare system, although I do agree that providers, Pharma, and insurance companies hike up prices when nobody sees how much things actually cost.
I live in the UK and sure, the NHS has problems. The waiting list for routine procedures is insane, hence private healthcare is getting more popular. However, when you have a major family emergency you know the NHS will always be there and that’s just such a relief. The idea of getting a bill for an air ambulance and major emergency surgery sends a shiver down my spine.
Either way you are paying it with your taxes in the UK...if i am middle class i am paying 40% more in taxes (for me that is 15k in taxes annually), my last bill for a minor surgery was $700 (private insurance paid $30,000)...If i could choose between paying $700 once every 10 years or 15k every year i would choose the former.
If you are poor and do not pay taxes, then obviously the UK system is better for you since someone else is shouldering the burden of taxes to allow you to have that surgery. If you are middle class, USA is the place to be.
@@sew_gal7340 Except the US system is extremely inefficient so the per person spend on healthcare is far higher. Also, your once every 10-year health emergency is likely to cost you an awful lot more than $700. I'm sure that private insurance wasn't cheap.
@@sew_gal7340 The UK Central Government funding for the National Health Service is about £180 billion there are about 67 million people in the UK. A proportion of our taxes called National Insurance goes towards the National Health Service so we pay about £2,800 per person per year for our healthcare for full coverage and no out-of-pocket expenses. I pay 20% tax and you don't pay tax on the first $14,850. As I explained above this includes healthcare full coverage for myself and my family. I have 3 neurological conditions, a congenital heart defect, and a thyroid condition. I had a pregnancy with complications and many other things along the way. I have had decades of treatment and have been under the care of many Specialists and Consultants including a Cardiologist, Cardiothoracic surgeon, Neurologist, Neurosurgeon, Pain Specialist, Audiologist, etc. Decades of MRI/MRA scans, CAT scans, echocardiograms, ECGs, 24-hour heart monitors, surgeries, procedures, doctor call-outs to my home day or night, ambulance call-outs, hospital stays, ER visits, urgent care clinics, physiotherapists, X-rays, broken bones, hearing tests, blood tests, ultrasound scans, antenatal care and postnatal care, and a whole lot more. Not to mention all the healthcare from my Primary Care Doctors, health checks, and annual screenings. The cost to me is £0.
I pick up my repeat prescriptions from my Pharmacy every month and pay £0. Medications are free for many health conditions. Medications are also free to Children under 18, People aged 60 and over, People in education, Unemployed People, Pregnant women and Postpartum, and People who can't work due to illness and disability. For People who do pay for their medications, all prescriptions are £9.65 All forms of birth control are free as are all vaccinations. My parents get their free monthly repeat prescriptions delivered to their home every month for free. I had COVID last year and recovered but still had chest symptoms. I called my Primary Care Doctor in the morning who came out to see me that afternoon during his home visits. He examined me and prescribed a 5-day course of Antibiotics to treat a chest infection the cost to me was £0. My uncle had a heart attack this year and needed a valve replacement after he was discharged from the hospital Specialist Cardiac nurses visited his home daily to aid in his recovery. After being discharged from the hospital women and their newborn babies receive their first 2 weeks of postnatal care at home midwives do daily home visits. Unlike Americans who are restricted by their Network, I am fully covered I can choose and go to any Hospital, Consultant, Specialist, Surgeon, etc in the entire country. If I stopped working tomorrow absolutely nothing regarding my healthcare would change. In the rest of the developed world healthcare is a human right that people have the same access to regardless of whether someone is in employment or not.
The US isn't free market, and the above comment said it correct, government healthcare is expensive low quality prepaid care, the workers are lazier because they get a guaranteed paycheck and they aren't accountable to you the patient. Imagine paying tens of thousands a year into a system and when you finally need it, they treat you like a number, or just offer you medical assisted dying. Chronic Lyme disease will end the cronyism
@@sew_gal7340 in the US you also pay for healthcare with your taxes. It's even higher cost than in the UK if you look at the per capita health spending.
5 years ago I was admitted to a local hospital for 24 hours, and the bill - just for the hospital room itself (no meds, scans, Dr's, techs, etc. included) was 25K. For. A. Hospital. Room.
Yay capitalism! Those hospital/insurance execs are laughing at us.
dont pay it, I wont...out of principle (but I can't afford my medical bills either....and im only 28)
@@svyatoyaleksnevskiy If you think the hospital system, or anything for that matter, operates on the economics of capitalism than you might be a dumb Russian.
I agree with the other comments. F paying that Bs. If anything pay them a $5 dollars a month.
God bless America lol
I'm a young man who does well for himself. Own a house etc. Had my first child and at the time I was paying about 500 dollars a month for health care for just my wife. This is a ton of money for me. For what I thought was a solid plan. I walked out with over 10k in medical bills for my child which was a straight forward 0 complications birth. It was scary.
You shouldn't never taken that job dude. What do you do for a living?
@Chris Lyle rather not get personal here but know that this was private health care. I work in a freelance industry in nyc that generally doesn't have great benefits. Also my wife does not work.
you can thank the 'AFFORDABLE care act' for your great options on the open market. Your choices: high premiums and high deductible, or nothing
Well, we wanted comfort rather than reality. It's all fine when we have painkillers and trained professionals, but when you show how stupid the masses are by believing the cold is as lethal as airborne cancer, they act. Our next generations will face some serious anti-human leadership because so many assumed ignorance where there was decades of planned malice.
There's women who specialize in helping women give birth at home, and they bring some modern medicines to ease the process and it goes just as well, if not better than the new normal, for a fraction of the cost. But hey, that and I are crazy, so we all better stick to the monthly insurance bill before any actual visits, as well as the astronomical cost for having a kid which totally won't incentivize generational collapse or anything.
@@likemy was it the ACA that charged his insurance 10s of thousands ?
My dad had an 11 mile trip in a ambulance from hospital to home for hospice. I got the bill for the ambulance ride this week and it was $7300. His health insurance denied the bill because it wasn’t a medically needed trip. He passed away 30 hours after coming home.
Wtf
A couple of years ago I went to one of those emergency clinics because I started having intense lower back pain and didn't have insurance. They said we think you have a kidney stone you need to go to the ER. The hospital was a block away. You could see it from the clinic. They put me in an ambulance for 5 minutes to the ER and it was $1600.00.
I was seeing this Finnish girl who told me about her ex's grandma, who lived in a town near the Norwegian border. One day she needed an emergency trip to the hospital, so a nearby Norwegian hospital sent her a helicopter and it was either free or something like 30 dollars (in Norwegian currency). Here in the US, we'd rather spend our money bombing brown people and playing with our toys in the sand, as late George Carlin said, may he rest in peace.
Please tell me u didn’t pay it since he died there after. Especially since it wasn’t your bill in the first place.
@@nosawggg isn't medical debt passed down to children?
I work in the industry and I see it on the inside every day - hospitals drive up the costs (then play a guilt trip reputation war in the media when insurance companies ask them to come down on prices during negotiations).
In the auto world, you turn the mechanic's bill into the insurance company and they pay you out directly....no insurance interfacing with the mechanic...
However in the medical world, the hospital is legally allowed to negotiate a price with the insurer that is substantially higher than the cash price they'd quote the patient directly.
Advice from an insider:
1. Control the health outcomes you can control (diet, exercise, alcohol, tobacco, sleep).
2. Open an HSA and auto-transfer $100/month into it every month for life.
3. Ask for the cash price and itemized bill for all planned services not guaranteed to be covered 100% by your insurance plan (example: outpatient surgeries like an appendix removal) before presenting proof of insurance.
4. Before the procedure and if your HSA funds can cover the cash price, present the bill to your insurance company YOURSELF and ask them to guarantee reimbursement (after you pay the cash price) according to your insurance plan (they will because they're saving money).
5. Pay cash to the hospital and await direct reimbursement from your insurer.
.
.
.
Insurance is meant for catastrophic events, not everyday maintenance. All Joe's guest had to do was follow the above steps (in fact, if he can pay a couple thousand for colonoscopies, he can ask for and pay the lower cash price for a blood test and IV bag easily), and he'd have probably only been out a few hundred bucks? Maybe a bit more?
Fight fire with fire - don't let the hospitals go behind your back a drive up your insurance costs. It's not going to doctors and nurses; it's going to hospital CFOs.
This is the most accurate representation I've seen of the rise in prices. It is the same reason that college tuition is so high.
To the service provider, the cost of negotiation is baked in. It is massively assumed that a more secure payer (Bank, Insurer) will be doing the negotiation and paying the bill.
Or to avoid all the rigmarole you wrote about just get the government to do the right thing by the people. Introduction of a National Health Service ASAP. Seeing as almost all your politicians are bought, I say good luck with that!
Helpful!
My dad had prostate issues- surgery in US with months wait time was around 36k-40k and he went to Mexico and around 3k and minimal wait time. Great doctors and no issues afterwards!
legalize all drugs, get rid of doctor licensure, and turf ownership in hospitals. and abolish the FDA. Remove intellectual property laws. We will then have the least expensive care in the world.
Why do we compare ourselves to just Canada? Why not France or Italy, which have been rated number one (or top 3) a number of times.
The problem here is the focus is for-profit and not care. Look up “dollar bill” McGuire, he made billions and paid his employees bonuses to find ways not to pay for people’s care (even life saving care that was needed).
Also we aren’t number one in quality, that all depends on what specific care we are talking about but often we aren’t.
was the trip to mexico included in the 3k?
My dad had that and the military took care of it for free because he was a retired military veteran. However, Clinton and Obama cannibalized military benefits so if dad was still alive, he would have had to pay.
@@GhostSal Health care in Japan is stellar. If I recall correctly, $25 per month covers everything including major surgery. I have several Japanese relatives and they are appalled at the health care costs in the U.S.
I live in Vietnam and the differences in cost and efficiency is jaw dropping.
I can walk into an mri center, have it performed, read and given to me to bring to my doctor. The cost? Around 75 to -100 dollars.
Drug prices? Pennies to dollars
Eye care? Guy on the street does the exam, makes the lens and I pick the frame - 2 hour procedure and costs around 50 - 75 dollars.
I will not be moving back anytime soon.
Lmao lucky bastard
Same with Taiwan
Same in India
These SE nations are not the 3rd world countries many Americans look down upon, but America itself in many areas resembles 3rd world. Great move. We too call SE Asia our second home
Average salary in Vietnam is $18k, compared to $50k in America. That applies to everything else like housing costs.
My 3mo old son went to ER for fever (he had COVID) - because the nurses said was a very urgent emergency. I knew it was a waste of time, and he could be treated with low dose Tylenol, but whatever - my wife made us go. Then they said they need to complete a spinal tap to rule out meningitis. I said he has COVID, it's a positive test, and he caught it from my wife. Then they implied I was harming the child if I refused to allow a spinal tap. They pressured my wife but I declined. They then called some social services moron who no joke started lecturing me about child abuse. FYI - the risks of a botched spinal tap on a 3mo old is paralysis so I stated this and told them he has COVID, it's not needed. After arguing with everyone and the moron social service worker they sent him home with Tylenol. He recovered in about 20mins and that was it. 2weeks later they sent CPS round for an evaluation (nothing happened). Turns out major hospitals (Bostons Children's) discontinued spinal taps on COVID infants and the hospital in question was behind the curve. They sent CPS round to my house because their dumb procedures were outdated and I was right all along. Also - a neighbor had the exact same issue - they went ahead with the spinal tap and it cost the insurance company $9,000 for procedure and labs. AND they paid $3k out of pocket. And the kid had transient paralysis of lower limbs. Luckily he recovered. What a bunch of morons
Wow, frightening
Your child is very lucky to have a father like you
Just stab my spine bro
you're a good and vigilant father. That hospital probably knew about the spinal tap guidance but were doing it anyway to milk insurance $$$. Happens all the time in healthcare--they run the gamut of expensive and unnecessary tests
Consider reporting them to your state medical board
I fell and broke 2 ribs early this year; went to my local ER, they did a general X-Ray of my chest cavity and confirmed I had to broke/cracked ribs. The ER doc said there is really nothing we can do, go home and take it easy. A few weeks later I received a bill from the ER hospital for $25,500.00 USD. I'm uninsured, no health care, and unemployed. I was devastated. Our health care system is broke, and people like me need help with getting insurance. It's borderline criminal to charge $25k for a 30 minute ER visit.
Dude, just don’t pay it. Don’t stress on it just don’t pay lol. Fuck all that shit
@@Bigf00t100as a single man I agree but for people with families that’s a little too tricky. I have no idea how much I owe those bastards but all I know is that those billing envelopes make pretty good kindling for my little campfires.
Just pay like $10 a month and if they try to push you, just tell them that’s all you have
@@ThePalmettoProletarian I get it. Trust me but in all honesty how I’m the hell is anyone going to pay off 20-30k I’m debt. That’s some people’s yearly salary. When I got COVID, I had lost my job along with my insurnace and needed to go to ER. All they did was a simple blood withdrawal and told
Me to go home and take Tylenol. Was there for like 3 hours TOTAL. Nothing major. Got the bill a few weeks later 22k. I literally laughed and threw it away and never paid it. They sent me some collection shit a few times but overall they just stopped coming. This ain’t the first time I’ve neglected hospital bills, sue me. I don’t have shit and I’m not about to spend my life and energy making money to pay off this ridiculous bill. That’s outrages. The system is broken, don’t sweat it man, just ignore it and don’t pay. Luckily it doesn’t affect your credit so it’s cool
That’s like 20 bucks here in Taiwan lol
A huge part of the issue is that doctors don't run hospitals anymore. Hospitals have boards and C-Suites. The insurance system is also a racket.
Agree, the erosion of societal values in this country is partially to blame, along with corrupt govt and corporatism. Those things have greatly distorted the industry, and led to todays corporate culture of profits before people in medical.
Why would doctors run the hospital? If doctors run the hospitals, who is going to treat patients? It’s like saying how come astronauts don’t run NASA? Btw the hospital I go to is run by MD who is now the CEO and is no better or worst than any other hospital.
@@nepaliyuva408 He's saying that doctors do not make care decisions as they used to. Instead, they are now made by business executives who are not connected to the people, treatments, or medical decisions. Our healthcare system in America isn't even a free market like some claim - it's heavily restricted corporatism supported by the government. So no one faces any real consequences for their bad corporate decisions. It's why almost every industry has worse quality. Those corporatist types are vultures who rarely add value.
@@scratchpenny recently my mother passed away after 1.5 year battle with terminal
Illness. We went through multiple hospitals and multiple doctors and at no point hospital executives were part of any decision making in terms of her care. At high level I can see they are making business decision but that should be no different in any point in time in history. Provide data that shows hospitals executives are making more decisions today than in the past in terms of treatments. Hospitals are businesses at the end of the day. Businessman should run business and doctors should treat patients. Politicians should do politics.
Last businessman that tried politics is indicted of paying off porn star.
High costs have less to do with insurance companies than health care providers themselves. In any other industry, its illegal to charge different rates for the same testing and procedures, purely depending on the customer. Instead, we have hospitals who will charge as much money as each health insurance company can afford. Thats the racket. And hospitals are able to hide this by claiming that the prices they charge each individual health insurance company are TRADE SECRETS. The stupidity of this argument is beyond belief, and the only thing worse is that politicians accept that dumb legal argument in exchange for regular political donations. Every single hospital and health care institution should be legally required to disclose publicly what they charge everyone, so that insurance companies stop being overcharged, which just leads to the insurance companies passing the costs onto policy holders.
my favorite thing that blew my mine was when they showed the prices of the same procedure at several different hospitals in a city/state. One hospital would charge $200 and another would charge $2000.
Free market capitalism, baby.
I am an ER doc- here are the reason - out of the 125K patients that comes through an ER, only small percent can pay. so what they do is take the cost of running the ED and charge it to the people who can actually pay. in Med school and residency- we are taught to fix broken bodies. not prevent illness enough. lastly but mostly- we over treat, over test and over diagnose- because people love to sue and we have no option but to try to find everything wrong with you regardless of what is causing the issue. it is rotten.
Do the people that cannot pay go bankrupt?
Wouldn't more be able to pay if the price represented the cost of treatment?
Continually raising prices because only a small percentage can pay will only continue to make the system worse. Hospitals are a business focused on profits, and profits are made from acute health problems.
Our medical system is not focused on prevention, but as you said, fixing broken bodies. We need a total overhaul that isn't so focused on bottom-line profits.
Preventing 1,000 people from getting cancer brings in a lot less money than treating 1,000 people with cancer via hospitalized treatments, for example.
Not painting you personally as the enemy, but this is just my perspective.
ALWAYS ask any nurse, doctor or staff who set one foot in your hospital room if they are "in your network"?
If not they WILL take your house and every $ you have. I have seen it first hand. Be vigilant....
@@hugosalinasaliaga5266 homeless people don’t file bankruptcy. At my ER, almost every night a whole wing gets flooded with homeless who will make up any and all illnesses to have a place to stay for the night. 35 bed ER, at least 10 beds a night are homeless. Someone’s paying for those beds, and it ain’t them.
As a Canadian fully agree our quality sucks. But as someone who was in and out of the hospital every few months for some time I would have gone bankrupt and have lost everything in America.
Went to Portugal on vacation. My son fell and needed stitches on his chin. We went to a private clinic, paid 56 Euros. Total. Blew my mind. That would have cost $2K in the U.S. with insurance. It was then I knew we were getting ripped off.
If you’d been a European citizen that bill would have been 10 euros.
In India, that would easily be done within 5 dollars
Then factor in paying insurance $500 a month just for the privilege of having access to healthcare. The healthcare act in the US is a scam that was somehow made law.
Required to pay for health insurance? What the actual?
Meanwhile, in socialist countries like the UK, you can get cancer treatment for next to nothing.
Oh well. The US needs to pay for all those drones and aircraft carrier battle groups somehow.
The public health care in Portugal is dogsht, I'm portuguese. Some people die while waiting for a measly appointment. More than half of our population has a private health insurance plan because they don't trust the public health system
Sorry I’m not American and I’m from a country with universal healthcare so this idea is honestly hard for me to grasp. But one question, how the effing even with insurance that you still have to pay that much in America? Then what is the point of being insured then 😭
I haven't been to a doctor in almost 23 years...if something happens and I get sick or hurt, I'll just die.
How I feel
Aye
Like the 'olden' days
The more I see the results of people who turn themselves over to the medical system, I think you’ll be better off not going to the doctor……
@@jetsengoytredkl I agree! I was a CENA for 16 years. I saw alot.
I can totally relate. Ive had two shoulder surgeries but I still get frequent dislocations. Unfortunately, I sometimes need to go to the ER because I can’t pop it back in myself. When I go, I’m usually in and out in 30 minutes. No IVs, no anesthesia, nothing. Just a doctor moving my shoulder around for a few minutes until it pops back in.
My last ER visit cost me $3,000 AFTER INSURANCE!!! Why even have insurance at that point. This is insane and possibly the biggest problem in America.
Without a doubt. There’s no justification for what we are getting charged for this shit. I spend $7000 a year on insurance for myself and my daughter and have to spend $6000 before it kicks in. I could drive a fucking Porsche for what I pay these cocksuckers. How this country hasn’t burned down the White House in relation to this is beyond me.
Insurance is a ridiculous concept. It's nothing but an excuse to inflate price. You get rid of the insurance system tomorrow, all services will suddenly be billed at operating cost which would 100% be affordable to just about everyone.
The rich have health insurance. We don’t. Yet we pay what we only have, so we can never go after them.
Find a good chiropractor. One that can take you in an emergency as well. Much cheaper than the ER.
@@aPpiknik I didn't know chiropractors take emergencies
The worst part is that quality of healthcare here is not actually that good. We have some of the best docs in the world, but the average clinician available outside of major institutions is actually pretty substandard compared to other developed nations. Overspecialization too early in training means docs have very limited areas of expertise compared to count that require years of working as junior doctors before specializing.
46th in life expectancy.....makes you wonder what we pay so much for if the health care service doesn't even really keep people alive.
@MaxB that's not the fault of Healthcare, that's the fault of some 50% of Americans gorging themselves with food.
@@sowososmooth False. The USA ranks 54th in Healthcare Quality. We have the most deaths caused by Drs. We are the highest in infant mortality in the industrial world!
We are 12th in cancer treatment.
@Trevor Dylan Absolutely none of that addressed the very serious obesity epidemic within the US or even tried to compare the number of medical fatalities to the number of deaths caused by excessive over eating. Try again.
@@sowososmooth Your point was 100% false. You made an objectively false, and incredibly stupid comment. I corrected you by showing how Healthcare quality is the reason Americans die.
Educate yourself if it embarrassed you.
Quality of care means nothing when most people can't even access that care without a significant, often crippling financial burden. My experience with doctors has been them being egotistical, money hungry shills for the pharmaceutical industry. I've also experienced far too much incompetence in American healthcare to say that we have amazing quality of care. I recently went to get some blood work done, they called me back over a week later and said it turned out they hadn't gotten enough blood from me so I need to go back in and have them redraw my blood. They also prescribed me antibiotics and told me to start taking them before they even got the results to see if I had this UTI type thing(which I had no symptoms for, I was just getting tested cause my gf had it). I didn't take the antibiotics because it's irresponsible to take antibiotics for no reason, and they're terrible for you. I wanted to wait to get the results. I was negative. Also, they didn't even want to test if I had it, they assumed I had it despite me having no symptoms and I had to ask for them to test me because I wanted to know for sure. I mean who wouldn't. Also, my experience with psychiatrists has basically been me telling them what medications I want and then getting them prescribed and having to keep going back for appointments to get the dose up to what I knew from the start was the effective dose for me. Then getting refills can be a huge hassle with certain medications. The entire healthcare system is just a nightmare.
He is right about having the best healthcare in the world, if you can afford the best place. My father is battling cancer, almost wants to give up on treatments to save our family from the financial burdon.
Has been doing chemo for about 3 months, he is down about 30 lbs and weak. He fell the other day. And debated going to the ER even though he had hit his head on the concrete, and had a lump on his head, and his arm was all bruised up, and he was having trouble straightening his leg. And he kept saying "it would cost too much, I don't need to go." Even with insurance it's still stupid how much any form of Cancer treatment or emergency medical treatment.
I agree with alot of what you said...but yes as someone who just discovered this crap called specialty clinics for chronic issues and the refill hassle with that beingnmore than the normal situation. Im convinced the refill scam with psychs is simply so they can billa visit lol
@Ryu rc hope he pulls through, mate.
both are important.
@@ryurc3033what’s your cashapp brother?
The amount Healthcare costs is criminal.
Healthcare costs are high as a result of government interference in the market.
So, yes.
Our medical system owned by American Oligarchs in search of outsized profits...
@@docsavage8640 You obviously didn't watch the video where they clearly state why the costs are so high. Corporate greed. Obviously we need more government to interfere.
@@Jamesmyboy1 we know why they're so high. Americans are unhealthy and the private side has to subsidize the public side
@@Jamesmyboy1 do you really want the same government that manages the post office in charge of your medical care???
I was rushed into the ER one morning morning due to a heart condition, after injecting medication my heart stablized and they said they just need to run a couple of test that afternoon, and stay overnight just in case. They stalled and didn't do the test until later so i ended up staying for 3 days for no reason. The bill was $38k and i had to pay $12k after insurance. The most frustrating thing about the breakdown of the bill was that the total cost on my actual time on the ER was only $1200. The part that saved my life. The rest of the bill was just me laying on the hospital bed for 3 days for no reason.
I've had babies, surgeries, numerous hospital visits etc. in Australia and it cost nothing. Pretty decent care too although there are issues like anywhere else. There's still a private system for the picky people too
A question from ignorance, I am from Spain, here our healthcare was always public, in case a person cannot pay the cost of an operation or something similar, what happens?
@@menda3682
Cada caso es único,dependiendo del estado,el seguro médico(si tienes uno),el hospital donde fuiste atendido.
Se te podrían dar plan de pagos a largo plazo o descuentos por demostrar que económicamente se te hace imposible pagar.
Pero a la larga de alguna forma u otra tienes que pagar algo.
Si no dependiendo donde vives esa deuda puede pasar a tu récord crediticio y arruinarte porque nadie te va a hacer préstamos o darte tarjeta de crédito por esa mancha que tienes.
También podría pasar que esa deuda se la vendan a una agencia de colección de deuda y esos hijos de puta te harán la vida imposible hasta llegar a un acuerdo de pago.
Very good discussion discussing the pro and cons of both Canada and us health systems. I live in Canada and the wait times are absolutely atrocious. I can't even book a visit with my family doctor til like a month away. And the logic goes, if it's urgent, go to emergency. Well a lot of issues aren't urgent but requires medical attention somewhat within the week and there's nothing we can do. I don't see any reason why private health care should be banned when it will alleviate wait times to everyone involved. I know the concept of jumping the wait line with money is a bit of an ethical dilemma, but the end result is both sides gets lower wait times. People have to see the forest and not just the trees here.
Absolute bullshit. My mom was a Dr in Toronto. My wife is from Canada. Also I have read the WHO reports. The average wait time in Canada compared to US for surgery is 9 days Canada 8 days USA.
@@Yourmomshousemyrules It's not absolute bullshit, healthcare in Canada is all about waiting lists. For serious immediately-needed surgery maybe you can get in quick, but god forbid you get sick. I've been on waiting list after waiting to get into a sleep study for about a year now. I'm basically not sleeping at all and can't function during the day whatsoever because I wake up choking many times a night but the system doesn't see it as urgent. All specialists have minimum several-month waiting lists and once you get in, they usually do some incredibly half-assed 3 minute lookover and send you back out the door with no answers and you have to make another appointment with your GP where he puts you on another many-month waiting list (sometimes to see the very same unhelpful specialist again). I'm 26. I have had as-yet undiagnosed chronic health problems since I was a child, which have prevented me from finishing school, getting a job, or even having a basic social life. (This was greatly worsened by the two shots I got in 2021, which is a huge problem because our healtcare system is incredibly resistant to even acknowledge that possibility, so even talking about my health problems with professionals is a constant uphill battle.) I've spent basically my whole life on waiting lists and never getting any real answers about my health problems in between. (And plenty of wrong answers/psychiatric pill pushing which made things worse.) The only doctor who has started to make any real progress with my health problems is a private naturopath which my parents started paying thousands of dollars for over the past year.
TL:DR it's nice that kinetic injuries are dealt with cheaply and quickly in Canada but everything else that you might want from healthcare is pretty much a write-off. A mirage intended to make healthy people think there will be help if they ever get sick.
@@Yourmomshousemyrules right that’s why BC cancer patients are being shipped to Seattle
@@cerebralm "I have a litany of health problems, so I went to a pseudo doctor instead of getting a genetics test"
Move, then. Go be with the Americans.
You can't work but mommy and daddy can fork out money for you. Must be nice. Most of us can't leave even if we wanted to.
The moment you open the gates for private enterprises to get a piece of the pie, that’s when prices start to go up and not just for the private sector but for everybody.
People’s lives are absolutely ruined by this. It can happen at any time to anyone, and it’s beyond sad.
no doubt
but muricans have guns to defend against the evil goverment.... looool
Medical bankruptcy is one of the most inflated claims in the US to generate hype for political purposes, while not having a very significant influence on bankruptcy filings. Bankruptcy filings are a result of multiple factors, and medical bills are nowhere near the top factor according to all the data I have studied. For starters, Elizabeth Warren’s cherry-picked study went to 2005, where there were only 1.45 million bankruptcies filed in the whole US including Chapter 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15. Only Ch 13 is for wage-earners, while Ch 15 represented the largest % of filings. The study expanded the parameters to include if people had missed 2 weeks of work due to sickness, had medical bills over $1000, and mortgaged their home to pay for bills.
If bankruptcy filers fell into those categories, it was listed as "bankruptcy due to medical expenses", even if that wasn’t true. That’s less than half a percent of the overall population who even filed for bankruptcy. By adding those parameters, they fudged the data to indicate that 61% of the filers filed because of medical expenses.
Another study in 2011 found that only 26% of Ch 13 filers said medical expenses played a role.
Some studies said 57.1% while others said more people filed bankruptcy for medical expenses than overall bankruptcy filings, which is egregiously flawed. Not only can’t all Ch 13 filers be due to medical expenses, but Ch 13 can’t exceed all of the types of Chapter filings due to the dominance of corporate and foreign businesses filing bankruptcy each year. Ch 13 is only 27-38% of bankruptcy filings each year.
Another thing is that personal bankruptcies are not a constant Y2Y. Personal bankruptcies peaked in 2010 at over 434,000 after the financial crisis, then dropped dramatically down to around 299,000 in 2016, 289,000 in 2019, and 194,000 in 2020.
Chapter 13 Bankruptcies in US Year to Year
2008: 353k
2009: 398k
2010: 434.8k
2011: 417k
2012: 375k
2013: 343k
2014: 313k
2015: 302k
2016: 299k
2017: 296k
2018: 288k
2019: 289k
2020: 194k
2021: 117.7k
2022: 149k (.05% of the US population)
Anytime someone presents a claim, automatically question whether that claim is even accurate, then do the research and understand the basic math. In the case of medical bankruptcy, it’s an extremely inflated piece of hype used by proponents of massive change to the overall US system, with no numbers to support it. It’s sensationalist hype really.
Stop voting for right wing policy and conservative/republican politicians, because they will ruin your country.
@@LRRPFco52 stop spammign this bs around acing how much u know about thing. its like joe rogan. focus on totally wrong points
I was forced by paramedics to go to the hospital when I said I would be fine, but they said I had to go and be observed for 4 hours or they could be liable, I was placed on a stretcher in the hallway and a doctor came by one time and asked me 3 questions then left and I never saw him again. No one spoke to me again until they said I could leave. I received a bill totaling $3043.67. I received absolutely no treatment of any kind, just sat in the hallway and answered 3 questions. The doctor that asked the three questions charged $1453.00. Don't even know what the rest of the bill was for. Luckily I was able to receive some help through the county I live in but I still had to pay over $1500 out of pocket. There is no logic to it at all, they just make up numbers so they can get rich.
I had the same type of situation I got a 3k bill for just laying there with a really bad stomach pain I paid them NOTHING and never will it’s been 13 years the hospital I went to shut down
Wow that’s ridiculous. I wouldn’t pay for that. If anything I’d send them $1-5 dollars a month. Also you didn’t have to go. They lied to you. I’m pretty sure they can’t force you to do anything. Unless, you were going to harm yourself or others. Otherwise, they need a court order to take you to the hospital.
Can you prove you were forced?
The numbers are super made up . That's also why it is so hard to get a price before hand too. I never understand how that is legal. Ive had offices tell me and this is knowing what insurance i have that we dont know but youll get a bill after its billed..... Bitch i need to know now cuz i need to know if im gonna be able to afford food for the next 5 months or not
This almost happened to my mother when I was growing up. My older brother told them we would press criminal charges for kidnapping if they took her. She was fully conscious and protesting. They acquiesced and backed off when he said that.
I was hospitalized for a recurring issue overseas (Philippines), my bill for 6 days was less than $4000 usd. This included ER trip, room, meds, xrays, and cat scans. I was in a private room and received the same level of care I have in the states.
honestly bro the quality of life has dipped so badly in america from awful policy seriously thinking of moving my family to a better country
Is this cost in line with other SE Asian countries? And did you have health insurance while there?
@@mohamedalkaboom I do have medical insurance. The total billed amount was 4k, I paid less than $600 out of pocket.
I am unsure of other countries, but would look into it if you are looking to have a procedure. Thailand is billing itself as a medical tourism destination now.
@@justinpeepee8454 thanks Justin. Only curious. I was also hospitalized in Manila a few years ago with a stomach problem while I was marrying a local there.
It’s good to know how foreigners handle medical there, as wife and I will be spending part of every year in Philippines
@@mohamedalkaboom its about the level of red tape/regalation
Joe this issue needs to be discussed more often and in more detail because it is such a serious problem - people need to know!
You're absolutely right, this issue 😔 does require more attention and thorough discussions. It's important to raise awareness and ensure that people are aware of the seriousness of the problem! 💪🌍
People already know the system sucks. No'one is willing to stand up to better it.
I once had my lungs flare up due to a lot of stress caused from me getting fired from a very good job 4 months after buying my first home ... I was watching that Pixar movie with the silly little racing blue snail and by the end of the movie I was gasping for breath and leaning backwards, forwards or laying down on my back or my side felt like I was barely able to breath and gasping for air and it was getting worse and worse...I woke up my family at 2am and they rushed me to the ER. By the time I had gotten to the ER and the time I was sitting in the waiting room about 45 mins had passed and when the doctors did finally see me, whatever I was going through had calmed down a lot and I was able to breath a little easier and easier ...When They checked me out he told me it was most likely stress related due to be losing my job that day. I was kinda stunned and embarrassed that my body reacted the way it did as I was def bummed out and low on money but I was not hysterical or depressed over it or anything...They checked my blood pressure and that was about it. I t was a total false alarm and we just drove back home...few days later I got a bill in the mail for over $4k...for talking with the doc for 15 min and having my blood pressure taken.
I took a corrections class where my instructor told me that all the inmates and prisoners all over America get free medical treatment paid for by taxpayers. He showed us a case with a very sick inmate who was very old and debilitated due and he had so many serious health issues and he showed us how NY state was paying close to 1Million a year in medical bills and special treatment to keep a convicted murderer's heart and kidneys working and he highlighted that if one of our mothers got sick with the same issues as the inmate the state would send their thoughts and prayers buy not spend a single $1 of that tax money to save out family
It's shit like this that makes good citizens want to rage against the system...they could fix these issues in a few short years and alot of work and help many Americans if they wanted but it always comes down to $$$ in the end and they are always screaming about not having money but we see how the Pandemic, Banks crashing and the war in Ukraine showed us that these elites and law makers could easily whip up Billions of dollars out of the ether when they need too
The system is set up to be a swamp, no president could fix what got them there in the first place
I had a mrsa infection in my leg, 8 days in the hospital, i had 3 meals a day, 1 injection of pain meds, 1 of a blood thinner, and antibiotics. Thats it and i got first bill and it was 5k and i was like ouch, then more poured in and it ended up being almost 40k. My mom needed a liver transplant and it is a minimum of 500k , they wouldnt even put her on a list cause she didnt have funds or insurance to cover it. She got to see her grandkids a total of 2 times before she died.
Those inmates are the equivalent to ATM's for the Prison system. Taxpayers footing the bill, to keep them alive...
Yoooo you went to the ER for a panic attack hahah
@@spacebound2195 never had a panic attack personaly, but i could see how someone might not realize what was going on, could have easily been a heartattack. One of my jiujitsu students thought they were having a panic attack so they had a couple beers to relax and turned he had a blockage and had a heart attack. Luckily he survived.
I got paralyzed from the neck down in 2020 at the age of 21. After about four months in the hospital my bill was $1.3 million. Thank God my mom has good insurance.
So sorry you had to go through that man
That’s bullshit
1.3 is crazy
How much was it after insurance?
Would've been a hell of a lot cheaper without insurance.
German system: MANDATORY
10% of prescriptions but no more than 10€.
20€/day of hospital stay which covers EVERYTHING medical, room, food. If stay exceeds 20 days in any given year, cost/day = ZERO.
Premium is 17% of salary or unemployment split between employer/ee like Social Security.
Not connected to employer. I tell my employer who my provider is and they pay their share and mine.
Penalty for leaving system and reentering: preconditions CAN be used to establish 'new' higher premiums. (cash penalty sucks)
(motivates one to never break coverage)
Available to all who earn under 100K
I was recently in India and my left wrist had been bothering me for a while. Decided to call up an orthopedic specialist(yeah can directly do that instead of needing a referral like in US), made an appointment for the same day.
During appointment, got his consultation. Doc said, I needed to get an X-ray. Got the X-ray, he gave me his conclusion and next steps. All this in span of 2hrs and cost of less than $20 (consultation + X-Ray)
And this wasn't some shop in a ditch, this was a reputed hospital in big city like Bangalore
Isn't that how is supposed to be though. That's how it works here in KSA too
@@whodidit5761 I think they’re talking about the cost. Yes we can do this but most people CAN’T and WON’T bc of the costs.
@@trippinatormachine Exactly, but that's the point. The actual cost is practically nothing, but what we are charged is outrageous.
My chiropractor is where I go if I need an xray. 60 bucks for a series of 6 x-rays. The Urgent Care 260!
@@Yourmomshousemyrules Right that’s my bad. I should have been more clear. Thats what I meant when I said “cost”, the actual amount they charge you.
Similar experiences in Taiwan & Thailand
I have a friend; an interpreter; who worked all over the world. He got to a point where he was coming to the US less and less, as he was afraid he would get sick or injured there, and anywhere else in the world he would get free healthcare. He said many workers and experts in other countries were afraid of going to the US for the same reasons. Oh, and they were SO confused how the show Breaking Bad was possible, because in any other country Walter White would have simply gone to the Dr for free treatment.
Kind of doubt you can just walk in and get treated as a foreigner. In Canada for example I don't even think you are covered across provincial lines. You definitely won't be covered if you are a foreigner visiting Canada.
@@ancillarity Treatment is free for anyone that needs it in most developed countries. No questions asked; just walk in.
Foreign dignitaries, members of parliaments, wealthy, and even cartel bosses come to the US for procedures they can't get in their countries.
Your post sounds like some propaganda from a Russian bot farm, to be honest.
I and my family have gotten Healthcare or procedures in the US and Europe. Public NHS in Germany, Finland, Sweden is trash so if you want fast results, you go to the private sector there and pay $100/15 minutes, otherwise you wait in the public hospitals forever.
@@kcw1879 you are so naive lol
I have an American friend who worked in England. After several visits to a hospital, and many misdiagnoses, she was finally diagnosed with cancer. The doctor told her to go back to the states where she had a chance to survive. "Free" unfortunately has a cost and impacts quality.
I used to live in a beautiful home in a great neighborhood after studying all my life, going to school and getting out of North Philly. I accepted a new job so I had a little over a month off before the new job started. I didn't pay the incredible cost of carryover health care because we were in our early 30s and we would be picking up the new company's healthcare when I started. Well... that was a huge mistake. I now live in Kensington, Philadelphia and have lost everything except for what matters the most, my wife. The jobs that I used to get check your credit score so now it's impossible to get a high end job in my profession. The system is NOT broken. it's working just as intended for the shareholders. Something needs to be done.
I would recommend looking into a credit repair company.
also don't listen to the credit sharks, they can't actually take everything from you, home/car are mostly protected, contact a lawyer and make a unified debt plan.
Might not mean much but I hope everything falls into place for you, and I'm sure it will. Have you thought about looking at employment around Europe? I'm sure your profession will have opportunities out here where you won't be held back by your credit score in the States. I had to do something similar when I was going through a rough patch and a move to another country helped me with a fresh start and a clean file. Good luck!
Little late to bring this up but you should have had 30 days to sign up for COBRA to extend your insurance. Did anyone tell you that?
@@youngatheart7106 COBRA!!! That's it!! I couldn't remember the name of it. Yes, I was informed but it was SO very expensive just for the short time between jobs, and since we were young & not going to be traveling anywhere we decided to just wait for the coverage we'd have in just over a month. Like I said originally, big mistake. Those few thousands of dollars invested for that 0month of coverage would have made our lives go in a completely different direction.
I’ve worked in US healthcare for years. People avoid treatment until it’s too late, they DIE to avoid bankruptcy or homelessness. Our hc system RATIONS care through denials and high deductibles. EVERY other industrialized country has some version of universal hc (can include private options). Aging Boomers have overloaded every hc system recently, but universal hc still has better outcomes and longevity than the US.
I drove myself to the Emergency Room last year due to some abdominal pain which turned out to be a Kidney Stone. Was in the ER for 4 hours and was provided an IV with morphine and then released. They charged insurance $17,000 for my visit. Which I was responsible for $3,000 of. If I knew how much it was going to cost I wouldn’t have gone to the ER.
Nothing better than an 18yr old eager little who re.
In Russia they would charge you - NOTHING. In great world class clinic you would pay 400$ max.
I have no idea how did people even accepted such a shit show in America.
😆This I BELIEVE!
Which state?
I’m from the uk and been in the US on and off for 1.5 years. I can not believe how bad health care is here. I have good insurance but it doesn’t matter sometimes. I find it incredibly stressful to navigate this system. I lived and worked in the Middle East with private health care and it was much easier.
It is incredibly stressful. The system actively disuades you from using it. That’s by design though, the insurance companies would much prefer you keep paying them without using their services.
I’m Irish, we have public and private healthcare. A two layered system where those who can afford it, pay and those who can’t don’t. It works, but has its issues too.
@@LeMerch the Irish medical system is pretty crap, you have people laying on trolleys in hospital corridors
@@bob6267 in some public A&E yeah, same in the UK and a lot of Europe tbh but like I said, for those people its free!
The US system is literally designed to be confusing and terrible. It’s on purpose
The insurance companies are the enemy. Doctors salaries have not increased, while the cost of med school has drastically increased.
Doctor salaries have actually decreased directly due to less reimbursement from insurance companies and indirectly from inflation. Insurance companies, administrators and policy makers are a huge problem. None of these parties deliver care but leach off the system, driving up costs.
It's also the lawyers. We need medical legal reform. You have to limit what can be sued for and how much. Otherwise, you have these emotional settlement decisions raising costs to astronomical levels.
@scratchpenny I kind of agree until you draw it to extremes. Let's take a look at government Healthcare in America. The doctor doesn't get sued, just a tort claim against the government. Aka tax dollars pay for the doctors malpractice. I understand people wanting some form of socialized medicine, I'm just not sold. I understand being able to afford good Healthcare makes me biased. One of the things I like/liked(slowly changing) was the meritocracy of America. Was/is it perfect no? But it was/is pretty damn desirable for people who wanted the best
I call bullshit…..insurance companies and our politicians are the biggest reasons for our incredible price structure.
And countless administrators padding their salary.
I'm from Australia and 2 weeks in hospital due to laceration/infection and treatment the bill was $2500, all paid for by Medicare.
a 500cc bag of IV fluid costs $5 !! And he's talking absolute garbage regarding quality healthcare in Canada & other 1st world countries.
e.g. best cardio-thoracic & neuro surgeons are Australian !!
Because Medicare/ Medicaid and Tricare here ARE government payers.
If you do your research and challenge the cost, they will drop the bill dramatically. More often than not people just pay (or don't). I have been a nurse for 20 years and know what should be done and what most tests cost.
For instance, my year old daughter was suctioned in the ER and they charged us 8k for respiratory life savings measures. I harassed the hospital for an itemized bill, looked up the ICD codes and challenged them. The actual cost for treatment rendered was around $80. Due to my challenge, the bill was dropped completely.
Aside from billing errors, simples tests are marked up to exaggerate the price of care rendered. This is usually without the knowledge or consent of the treating physician.
A CBC doesn't cost $500 but if they can get away with it...they will.
Deep pockets have no heart.
Congrats, you shoveled the cost of treatment onto others
Imagine if we had some kind of regulatory body that actually functioned and reigned in fraud and abuse against consumers by large corporations. Oh well, maybe some day.
My US friend said the same, but having to negotiate and worry about the cost at such a time with a loved one is, insane and wrong
It's just as easy, if you want a treatment, get a doctor degree and get your treatment on your own. Saves alot of money
Or they could put a lien on your home
The insurance doesn’t REALLY pay the $3500. They write off most of that
I paid a cam girl that much to cosplay as hulk hogan and call me brother in her best hulk hogan accent.
@@WestJettLandlord 😂
What? hahahahaha
Yeah, I’m not sure they paid that or their agreed rate was 2000 and he paid all because hadn’t hit deductible
Exactly. I know like with Cigna, they have negotiated rates that can be 30-70% knocked right off the top but it technically is the price that would never get paid. Like my asthma meds will say $500, Cigna Rate $150, my Copay is $15.
I work in a hospital. The amount of regulation is so insane, we have to hire tons of people to keep up with it. The amount of people actually taking care of patients is minimal.
A question from ignorance, I am from Spain, here our healthcare was always public, in case a person cannot pay the cost of an operation or something similar, what happens?
@@menda3682 They don’t get treated, thousands of them on the street around here, I’ve not met a homeless person without a serious medical problem they can’t get treated
I hear you. I work in air medical (life flight) and the regulations on us are insane. We get it from both ends, medical regs and aviation regs. The department I'm in was regulated into existence just a couple of years ago by the FAA. You're looking at $1 million in salaries added to the company at the snap of a finger.
@@smithdakotalee Do these homeless people have jobs? I would assume not, but if not, what keeps them from being on Medicaid? Sorry if this is an ignorant question.
@@menda3682
Sometimes they get the operation anyway but then have large medical bills following them and presumably their credit. Sometimes they can negotiate lower bills with the medical facility, on the basis that the prices are so high in the first place partially due to deals with insurance companies and to make up for those that don’t pay, among other reasons. Sometimes. (I’m no expert; I just know of a few cases like that.)
I had a public defender years ago who was really smart, hard working and dedicated. He got my charges completely dropped with zero probation or court costs.
It's refreshing to hear about professionals in the legal system who go above and beyond to serve their clients. It's great that they were able to achieve such a positive outcome for you, resulting in dropped charges without any additional penalties. Their intelligence, hard work, and commitment are definitely commendable.
My ex wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis the same year we were married. The first year she had that disease, the healthcare cost were over $1 million, and I am not even joking.
My friend's wife has MS. She has physical therapy, pain management, a multi-purpose chair, a chair crane for the car, a powered inclining bed, a doctor, and a part-time nurse. That is all paid for by the government. I'm happy for my taxes to go toward this than an over-bloated military or the pharmaceutical industry.
Why’d you divorce?
@@bob11002009 She could have passed away too.
@@bob11002009 Didn't you hear the guy, a million a year
No lol she left me. If you look up multiple sclerosis and divorce, you never read about the person that has the disease that leaves. She had it for about three years and then in 2021 she decided she didn’t want to be married anymore.
I was called an abuser when I questioned the bullying nurses on the reasoning behind unnecessary tests they tried to give my 18-year-old daughter who was sent to the ER by urgent care. To be clear, this was a non-emergency, and she did not need to be there. I had an extremely high insurance deductible. They were telling her what tests they wanted to run and I advised her to not give permission until she spoke with me. They refused to allow me to speak with her apparently because she was 18 at the time. They would not allow her to charge her phone so she could call me and they would not allow her to use the phone in the ER. They kept repeating, 'her body, her choice' like she was pregnant or something. I simply said - great, send her the bill then. They shut up pretty quickly after that. She eventually ran out of there. Crazy
If she didn't need to be there, like you said, then why was she?
@@dimains6011 She had a pain in her chest from a cold/cough, nothing more. As soon as the Urgent care heard pain in the chest, they sent her to the ER
This is why virtually anyone with elderly parents travelling to the US for tourism is advised to purchase medical insurance because they'd be in a real fix if they were to require an ER visit. Scary af.
Here's an idea just don't pay 😊
In 2008 I was robbed by some gang members and stomped unconscious with my clavicle crushed and head split open needing staples. Somebody found me called 911 then I ended up getting life flighted to the ER. THEY SENT ME A BILL FOR 20,000 LOL!!! I was ever gonna pay that and never will I swear to God. You can't make me I dare them to try!!! 😊
You should get travel insurance when you travel out of country, even if you aren't elderly. Non-residents still have to pay extra, in other countries.
@@carbon-based-lifeform9172 You should google "number of years for medical debt to go away" and look at the first result. You can probably get your debt dismissed.
As an American living outside the US, I ALWAYS carry travel insurance when visiting the US.
@@carbon-based-lifeform9172 this is why credit card machines should be in ambulances.
This happened to me when I had to take my kid to the ER for a fever I couldn't control. At the time I didn't know ibuprofen and Tylenol could be used together as they dont conflict with one another. We waited 4 hours, they gave my kid Tylenol and ibuprofen, and they charged insurance over $7,000, $2,700 of which we had to pay out of pocket.
That's the saddest story I have heard so far! In China, a fever won't make you bankrupt nor would minor injuries. However, cancer would make you bankrupt. I couldn't believe that the healthcare system in America is so shocking! 😢
I appreciate Joe's call for healthy lifestyles and that would help the US to close the gap in lifespan with other rich nations. But our healthcare costs have little to do with our lifestyles. The last years of our lives is when all the crazy spending happens. That might be when Joe is ninety and some fat smoker is sixty, but if you get sick before you die, which almost everyone does, the healthcare system will take their toll.
My grandmother lived a healthy and frugal life, but the over $1M spent by a hospital in the last WEEK of her life would have wiped out her (and my late grandfather's) remaining savings five times over if she wasn't well insured.
Great point. I also didn’t fully understand his perspective that there is 0% that goes into promoting healthy lifestyle and a lot that goes into body positive. There’s a lot to unpack there but, to start, how is that true? Is he talking about the messaging that comes from the government? Is he talking about the messaging from society in general? You know what I mean? It’s an argument that raises so many questions that weren’t answered.
@@BrandonRKH cause Joe lately has been leaning right in his view points. And his talking point is always to attack the “woke” aspect than addressing the actual issue.
Totally wrong. American diet/cuisine drives horrible outcomes. Diabetes, stroke, heart issues, obesity, etc.
So high? It’s because of “insurance” , which removes the positive effects of “supply & demand “ / “free market” . Compare that to DPC , and DPC prices, which are far less than “copay”
When u take your customers last dollar , they can’t come back !! Med industry has done this for so long, hence obama care , was designed to rescue the med industry financial, which is bloated and actually killing itself . Add to that some hospice killing patients for 30k incentive, they are running out of customers to loot
Last month our local news shared a story of Solano county couple in CA. A bat entered their home and as a preventative measure they went to their hospital ER. Each had a 15 minute consult, no labs just BP
check and one shot each. Individual bill for the shot about $100,000. Total together about $201,000. The news story shared if they had waited until the outpatient clinic opened, it would have cost them $1,500 each instead, but waiting on possible rabies infection 😬
Shocking
Did they actually pay that tho
B.S. No shot costs 200K. How do people believe this stuff?
@@sthubbins4038 it’s on youtube through their news channel
Wait a second. Were they even bit by the bat? This story is bizarre. There’s no way both were bit and the chance the bat had rabies is also very low. Either the hospital is corrupt for giving them “preventive rabies shots” (which isn’t even a thing) or these people are crazy.
As someone living in Europe, my mouth dropped when I heard the prices. If you hop on a plane and come here for the examination, you'd probably pay less, despite the travel and accommodation costs.
What about Quality? Edit: They talked about Costs & Access.....what about Quality?
@@Gelato_21 the quality is pretty good.
@Master Splinter he said about not being able to get mri and stuff. I hurt my knee, and my regular dr (not hospital, not ER) was able to send me downstairs to get an x-ray that day for it. Only waited like 20 mins.
Depends. I have eye issues. I looked at prices in Switzerland for treatment. Its already more than just getting it done here in the US (with insurance i have). Ive also never been to Switzerland but i know whe i was traveling Europe it was very expensive. That said yea prob Germany (acc where im prob going for this eye disease) and other place are prob better and more cost efficient and Switzerland is a big anomaly..
Edit: Also to be fair like the Doctor who invented this eye treatment and has some novel techniques is in Switzerland. So the quality of care is prob 5x better esp because the FDA didnt even approve it until like 10 years after Europe was doing it.
@@Gelato_21 travel to Europe and you will see how the quality rivals USA. Sometimes I feel is better.
Ok so I have something to share as a brazilian: here we have part of our healthcare offered by the government through tax money, the quality varies drastically depending on where it's offered but on average it's really bad, almost useless bad. I had a kidney problem when I was 19 and my family had no private insurance, so we went to the public system first. We got the basic exams done in three days time in a private facility (our district has a public-private deal where they pay private facilities to use their machines, it's not so common countrywide, I just happen to live in an above average town), the exams were an xray, a blood test and an urine test. After the exams we got back to the doctor and he explained that I would need a cirurgy immediately because my condition was critical, In his own words I had 2 weeks at most until both kidneys fail. The thing is that there was a waiting period of more than 6 months to get the cirurgy done in the public system so that was not an option for me as I would surely die before then. I had to go to a private hospital that charged me around 25k BRL for it (most brazilians dont earn this amount of money in a year worth of work), I was lucky my grandad had this money saved and paid for it. Next day I has the cirurgy and everything went fine. Down here we see in the news everyday hundreds of people dying waiting for all kinds of medical treatment in the public system, it's a huge problem. Now we pay around 2k BRL/month for private healthcare insurance that covers pretty much anything, while still paying around 60% in taxes for public services that we cannot count on.
you are wrong , im brazilian too, we do have many problems, things could work much better, but on average its not useless bad, your case is very specifical, you were about to die
I was shocked at the costs of a colonoscopy & endoscopy in Austin. I still feel as if the billing was not 100% legitimate. I just kept getting more & more bills for months afterwards with another $200-$500 invoices for each one.
The thing is it is legitimate because there's no pricing regulation, the numbers are made up by the master charge list. Good luck finding out what is on that list though, the insurance companies don't want members to know
I went for a colonoscopy in S Korea. They found something and also performed a something-ectomy while I was under. Stayed in the hospital for 1 night after. Total cost: 200 bucks.
@@danielahern3560 As an American living in South Korea I can confirm this. I go to a big hospital regularly for a couple of reasons and my bills never went above $200. For those same treatments and checkups in America would cost me thousands.
If you live in Texas, you don't have to pay any medical bills
@@matthewmurphy4485 good luck with that! 👍
I live in Sweden, I had to go to the hospital last Friday after work for pain in my stomach, had my appendix removed Saturday night, went home Sunday after getting served breakfast at the hospital. I had IV and painkiller for the whole stay. Got charged an "ER fee" of 500 SEK (49$). That's it. However, sometimes if you want something done that's not acute they don't really give a fuck. Then your better of going private and just pay for it. Had a thing that took me 5 visits to get nothing done at "state Hospital" while a private clinic checked it out and fixed it in one visit.
Healthcare costs are high as a result of government interference in the market.
@@docsavage8640 in what country, when? Because it seems to be the exact opposite in every country.
It's a bot. Everybody knows the opposite is true.
@@Phantus00 I too believe that government interference only raises prices. Eyecare in the US is privatized. It should be unobtainable according to that thinking, but it's cheap and quality. It seems that competing clinics take turns providing quality care for affordable prices. I know it seems counterintuitive at first to think that having no restrictions would result in better quality and affordability but that's what has been shown to happen. It's like reverse psychology
@@alvarnunez3215 are you saying no restrictions in theory could mean that another hospital could open up and charge 1/18th the price for an ER visit, still be profitable and take business away from other hospitals?
I am in the UK. Suffered a terrible accident, was basically dead, got airlifted, surgeries, a month and a half in the hospital and a lot of post-surgery care.
Not a single pound was charged.
It costed alot but it cost the taxpayers as a whole, better than the US but the downsides are still there as opposed to a system where we all pay for ourselves.
@@Ghost-fe1vpDo you even understand why insurance exists?
Incorrect. Someone had to pay for that. And it was everyone else who doesn't know you, doesn't care about you, and SHOULD NOT be responsible for you
@@ram89572 hey retard, I paid for it too with my taxes. Now stop being jealous about our system and enjoy not having health care.
@@ram89572 Same question I asked Ghost-fe1vp...how can you be so dense to not realize that your idea of how the world should work, would plunge it back into the dark ages?
Someone has a terrible accident (i.e. not their fault) and your brilliant idea is to have him/her pay for that, in a system where most people live paycheck to-paycheck?
Brilliant, just brilliant, I wonder why we ever invented insurance.../s
I did a data analyst internship at a company that medical providers and labs outsource their revenue cycling to. I was 31 when I took that job and I quit within a month. I have never in my life quit a job on the spot after the things i learned about health insurance there. I pity anyone who works *for* a health insurance company who still has their humanity.
My wife took my son to the local hospital because he wouldn't stop crying. She thought there was something wrong and couldn't figure it out. Once we got to the hospital he stopped crying. The hospital just had us wait in a room to see what would happen. We ended up going home after 45 minutes. About a week later we got a bill for over 5G. It was insane..... 5g for nothing
That’s free in Canada with the same outcome. What they are saying about the care is fake news too only your very top couple schools are better than ours
Whose crying now eh ?
I live in Taiwan where there is universal health care. A typical ER visit with no treatment will cost like USD 10. My wife would have bankrupt us if we lived in US. She always insists on taking kids to the hospital whenever they got a fever.
Depends on where you went. If you went to the ER (not saying you shouldn't have), the rooms probably get charged the same rate regardless of what is happening in them (obviously negotiated with insurance, etc, but the fact that you are in the room having a procedure or sitting there doesn't change anything because you are occupying the room regardless). Then what's happening in them is charged at the rate for that procedure, I would assume.
I know we were thinking about taking our newborn to the ER for something, but it was gonna be a min $1500, so we just waited a little longer and he ended up being fine.
I had a motorcycle accident 12 years ago. I waited 5 hours to go to Urgent care to save money. Urgent care said they couldn't do stitches (WTF?), and they said I would need to go the ER for care. In and out of the ER in 45 min (thankfully, but with 8 stitches and a $2400 bill).
@@jameswalker590 it was the ER. Our son was only about 2 months old. Thank God the insurance covered it. But there was no procedure. We occupied the room for about 45 minutes and left
canadian here. 15 years ago I got spinal fusion surgery. they did a great job. when I call to see my doctor I'm booked in a week, and to get bloodwork I get a note and walk downstairs, wait like 15 mins. couple weeks later I have my results. I'm happy paying my taxes.
It’s usually more things like if u need imaging, that’s my experience in BC seeing a doctor is pretty quick usually a week or two it’s seeing specialist or imaging like MRI depending where u live, also depends the level of necessity and severity is, more severe things happen a lot quicker for sure
Exactly same I have CKD I have two doctors 2 nurses a social worker routine bloodwork done very efficient. This guy has no idea what he is speaking on and is trying to justify the quality of care for the money he spent. The poor cancer patients coming to the states as their last hope, they still die only in massive dept to their families..
sounds slow
So why do Canadians come to America for healthcare?
And you could do the same except cheaper and faster if we deregulated everything.
New to your podcast! Im also an ICU RN, thank you for speaking the truth! God bless you
In Quebec, you can consult a doctor in the day by calling early for booking. Most of the time, doc will see you the same day a few hours later. You pay around a hundred suscription for a year plus 75$ each consultation in that same year.
This stuff makes me so glad. I am very thankful that we have access to high quality care, but it is so crushing to have ridiculously high bills that are unpredictable. It would be one thing if you could get a ballpark estimate of how much things cost beforehand and could compare with other hospitals/care providers. It feels like a complete crapshoot; you never know how much it's going to cost and can never hold anyone accountable for over-charging (or incorrectly charging) you. My oldest son has had 4 or 5 asthma attacks in his life. It always happens on the weekend or in the middle of the night and we have been stuck going to ERs and urgent cares. The price for the same treatment has cost anywhere between $500 and $1200 (the ER wasn't the most expensive time either). We never know what the bill is going to look like, and for a family that doesn't have a whole lot extra it is very hard to fit these expenses into our life.
I don't know where all of you folks are getting this 'we have high quality care' stuff from. Maybe if you're rich you have access to that. But in my experience, the care sucks in this nation.
My healthcare isn’t quality, trying to navigate that bullshit makes it almost not worth engaging with. Glad you have good healthcare though
My sister was diagnosed with cancer in her early twenties, before her adult life really started. Now she’s in debt by tens of thousands of dollars. The cancer wasn’t her fault, and she wanted to live, so now she’s stuck with extreme debt for many years to come despite having health insurance.
That's terrible, hope she's ok , all the best
America is sick.
Even when I had health insurance I still managed to accrue roughly $300,000 in medical bills. I literally filed bankruptcy on only medical expenses.
Free market healthcare with health savings account will fix it
@@Bigshoots11 free market as in what we have now that isn't working? Or do you mean something else?
Everyone who goes to the ER these days has a similar story about excess cost. I took my kid in to an ER because he had a little blood in his ear. They took us to the exam room, we waited five minutes and the doctor came in. We told her about the blood in my sons ear, she looked into his ear with her little flashlight tool and said to us, just a scratch, nothing to worry about. It took her all of five minutes in total. Our portion of the insurance bill was $2,800 so imagine what the actual bill was for those five minutes. Now assume the doctor can see 10 patients per hour and charge a similar rate that we were charged. Just our share of $2,800 would mean that that doctor is billing at a rate of at least 2 time $28,000 per hour. how many lawyers bill at a rate of $28,000 per hour, let alone double that (since the insurance company most likely had to pay at least as much as our share of the bill). Assuming 6 weeks of paid vacation and holidays per year and a 40 hour work week, that doctor could bill somewhere between $50 to $100 million dollars per year ([52-6] x 40 x 28,000 x 2). It does not make sense.
he didnt get paid that i promise you, doctor pay (not what they bill) has decreased over the past 30 years, I know its hard to believe but its true.
Sadly doctors aren’t paid well and most ER doctors are residents who are paid peanuts. To me it’s embarrassing that trained professionals that went to school for so long, are aprox 2-300k$ in debt and get paid 18$/h for 3-8y.
The corporations who own hospitals and insurance companies are making money here plus pharma.
Dental care is evwn worse.
The hospital makes that money not the staff, ie doctors and nurses.
I've always heard one of the biggest problems is all the people who aren't insured because they're not even legal residents never pay for anything so that bill gets kicked back to people with insurance.
@@mikeLivornese No, healthcare for non-residents is not a big part of the cost.
Here’s the deal (as a Health and Welfare Consultant working for 15 years with employers, their staff, and healthcare costs)…..employERS own the risk, and ultimately are the payors of the policies and owners of the claims of their populations (not the carriers, contrary to what people may think). Carriers get a premium, then pay claims, but if claims are high, the EMPLOYER and their staff get a big increase. Think differently? If the premium isn’t paid, neither are the claims. Who, then, actually is responsible for the costs? In fact, many health carriers are now calling themselves health services companies instead of carriers. The ownership of the risk and payment responsibility comes to each employer. The Gov’t doesn’t own or care about (per policy) what happens to healthcare costs, ultimately. The ACA drove UP premiums. The transparency and no surprises act is a good move, however, unless employers enable staff to BE ABLE TO be healthcare consumers and seek out both quality and low prices (which are tied together in inverse, oftentimes, with healthcare higher quality tracks lower costs due to favorable outcomes, efficiency, and general economic market disciplines). Employers can and are already purchasing plans that are focused on healthCARE v reactively treating sickness, but the movement is grassroots. Most large Employers don’t want to disrupt models like the carrier ones. Small employers can reward staff with zero cost primary care, generics, urgent care, diagnostics, survey options, and much more) while providing tools for members to be true consumers . The fixes are HERE! Breaking out of the carrier shell and pivoting towards proactive care as a model and investment in the company (promoting good metabolic health has cascading benefits) is the only fix. Without different decisions and group benefits models, prices will continue to rise. I’ve evaluated over 1,200 employer groups and read niche industry books to learn how healthcare is fixed. My two (or two thousand) cents, here!
My father, a doctor that works overseas, had an ear infection while visiting the US. Overseas, he would simply go to the pharmacy and tell the pharmacist he has a simply ear infection. The pharmacist would sell him a $5 drug. No fuss, no doctors, no insurance, no BS. In the US, he had to go to a doctor and pay $350 for a 5 minutes consultation for the obvious diagnosis and prescription. Then go to the pharmacy to fill the prescription from a "pharmacist" who just drops the ear drops into a paper bag and pay another $350. $700 total for what costs $5 overseas. This is criminal. The quality of care isn't better than other even less developed countries. Don't be fooled by that. Insurance companies, drug companies, hospitals and even doctors are thieves in the United States.
That's cap. Sorry there's just no way you paid $350 for them. Urgent care visits are typically $100-150 self pay and no common antibiotic eardrops cost that much. The brand name stuff like Tobradex might be that much but they would automatically use the generic. If you're a foreigner or without insurance the pharmacy apply a cash discount card and you shouldn't be paying more than $50.
Yeah sorry but I'm calling bullshit. I've lived on the US all my life. I carry a high deductible plan so most of the medical care I get I pay out of pocket for. An office visit even at one of the walk in places which are more expensive is maybe 150 tops and even without insurance there is no way he paid 350 for antibiotic ear drops. Those cost like 50 bucks. Not to mention with the prevalence of telehealth you don't even need to go to a doc in person for something as simple as an ear infection. You can have a virtual visit for $40 where I live, just tell them what's up and they will send the prescription for something simple like ear drops.
"Who worked overseas", Why not name the country? Is your countries overall healthcare better than USA?
@@TheFlyingCougar you're the kind of person who just doesn't listen but guess what that wasn't bullshit because I have many friends who get screwed like that all the time with their health insurance. The system is beyond broken and is only for profit.
Most people on the usa like to blame big corporations like insurance companies without ever blaming the doctors and medical providers who are the ones charging the high fee.
This is such an interesting issue. A friend of mine is a surgeon and specializes in chronic pain. He said that most hospitals he works at have been decimated by the pandemic. He said that during that time he barely saw anyone in the hospitals (that he worked in from West coast to East), and it prevented people from being able to get procedures like surgeries and what not which is what generates the income for these hospitals.
income and hospitals should never be in the same sentence
@@natashalands2144 ^^^^^
Many hospitals came out ahead due to the pandemic after the government printed money give it to the hospitals that treated Covid patients
You mean, they didn’t have unlimited access to their cash cows
They compensated for it with putting people on vents and diagnosing everyone they could with Wuhanflu, triggering Federal funding. Many hospitals operate on revolving Medicare Plan A payments to keep them solvent, with idiot hospital directors who embezzle funds for a few years, then move to the next one. If we audited Medicare, it would shake Congress because there is a massive scam being played on the people, and Congress is eyeball-deep in it.
I live in Australia. Our healthcare is amazing. Public health care is all completely free including surgeries and all.
Private health care which most people have in australia. You can go to a private hospital and pay the excesses. Advantages to private is better quality , nicer and private room and emergency room is no where near as long as a wait as public .
Also our medicare system and private health takes off like 50% of all doctor appointments even including psychiatrist and psychologist.
I agree, health care is amazing here. Ive had to take my daughter to ER twice in the last few years, without cost. Reading some of these stories of massive bills for ER visits in the US is blowing my mind.
yeah, us Canadians have everything covered for free also. might be a bit of a wait if you're not in life threatening condition. .. but from reading the american comments. .. i'll take the wait time over blowing my life savings.
@@villiantwo the wait time in Canada is a problem, but it’s a much better problem to have than going completely bankrupt all because you dislocated your shoulder. I love my country but holy moly the healthcare system is run by sociopaths.
3 months in Hospital, another month in a hospital recovery unit and another 5 months of feed pump rental and 5 months worth of liquid food and home care nurses. Total cost $0, I love Australia!
If it is just one thing Australia has got right, its the health care system.
A rabies vaccine for my son cost over 8 K at the Mount Sinai Hospital in Miami Beach. A $600/month premium did not cover it according to insurance co…. We Americans are being taken for a ride, an expensive one.
wow that’s ridiculous
I was in the hospital for 2 days in Finland. Had iv, medication and tests run. It cost 240€ ... and I'm not even a Finnish citizen. Most of the U.S. hospitals are run like businesses and businesses are to make profit.
I live in America, and health insurance for my three person family is $800/mo. People who want private health insurance are all well off older people.
I've had 6 MRIs over the past 5 years (New Zealand and th UK) for a benign but growing tumor, culminating in Cyberknife radiotherapy in November. Sure I pay a portion of my salary in national insurance here in the UK, but it's really miniscule given I'll get access to any needed treatment without additional cost. Our system is being brought to it's knees by political neglect and it isn't perfect but I'm grateful we have access to such great treatment without fear of financial ruin.
The UK shits on NZ's health system. Our health system is falling over fast.
Once you whip out your insurance card, the hospital charges the full amount and gives you the “discounted” price that you pay. The hospital legally can’t tell you that and sometimes your copay ends up being more than what you would’ve paid if you went with cash
I live in Canada. I once injured my knee while playing soccer. I went to the hospital and received great care without having to pay a penny. However, I did have to wait an hour or two since other people had more serious injuries. After talking to the doctor, he recommended getting an MRI, which was done within 7 days. Again, I paid zero dollars. The system here is not perfect, but it is certainly fairer and more accessible than in the USA.
This guy is so full of shit claiming you can't get private clinic work done in Ontario.
💯👏
Yea sucks too live in America where you would go to ER they would give the MRI that same day and you would leave with a diagnosis.
in the US you get way faster care.
@@choobplaya ya and you have to pay an arm and a leg
This is my experience with the health care system in Michigan. Since Covid, I have experienced long waiting times and lines in the emergency room, waiting for days for a room to be admitted into the hospital and crazy costs and bills no one understands. It has become one of the worst systems. The medical field and insurance companies' intentions are to keep people ill and not to make them well because it is not profitable. I am not an expert in the medical field, but I have two engineering degrees with a minor in business and business, I do understand.
Fanica Kibner private insurance companies keeping people ill and profiting. 100% the reason USA healthcare sucks. well said. There is NO party or political group fighting against the private health insurance companies. We're all stupid, including me, to have believed the democratic party was fighting on our side for healthcare......while simultaneously taking massive donations from the private healthcare industry.
Sick patients Customer Lifetime Value is hugeeeee, virtual cash chow...
Yeah, I am in Michigan too. It's horrible. I argue that even the quality aspect is declining unless you are mega-rich. The US healthcare system is unsustainable.
Yep, these are things that people try to use against the idea of free healthcare in other countries. Not saying it's the solution cause I really am not educated on this subject, but it's just ironic.
In Michigan all the big health care corporations merged. Now we basically have one giant Hospital company owning most hospitals. It's all about $$$. Just wait until someone you love dies because the Hospitals made more money on them being sick than healthy. Michigan hospitals are effing horrible.
Anyone saying socialized medicine is worse, I have to ask "how could it be?". Our health care is as bad as any 3rd world. The profit margin encourages doctors/hospitals to keep people ill.
Thank you Joe for bringing awareness to this huge problem I am one of the many many many Americans that is in so much death from medical bills that I can never get financed to do anything therefore I am forced to work week-to-week paycheck-to-paycheck to try to pay these bills off
Man that's awful. And totally messed up.
Wish you the best in the future.
There are far better sources than Rogan for this info
File for medical bankruptcy. It will take your current medical bills (and other debt) away as well as any medical debt you incur while you're going through it. Stop struggling.
I moved to Poland several years back & there is a mix of BOTH private & public healthcare here. Everyone has public healthcare, but employers offer private insurance as an extra benefit of working at a certain company. When I had really bad food poisoning & needed fluids, but it was difficult for me to leave my house, a nurse made a house call & gave me the fluids I needed to start feeling better. This was part of the private insurance plan. The public plan wouldn't do anything like this. I used this service once again when I got shitfaced & was so hungover that I couldn't get out of bed.
I wonder how many preventable deaths there are because people refuse to go to the Hospital or see a doctor because it will put their family in debt, or won't go until something is really really wrong which could have been treated easily if caught earlier etc.
This issue is complicated. Another big factor in the high costs of liability insurance for hospitals and healthcare workers, etc. Not just the actual dollars for the insurance policies, but also out of the sheer fear of being sued. This creates a mindset where the providers order tests and procedures that are unnecessary. It’s huge billions of dollars business for attorneys on both sides of the equation.
I retired early from my almost 30 years as an Emergency Physician for this same reason.
James Dozier feels just like the gold rush in california... once money is to be made, all the cockroaches comes in to profit off us! people will always get sick, so each industry found a way to leech off us!!!
It's all admin fees. I'm not exaggerating when I say that hospital bills are inflated up to 30x JUST because insurance. 1) they know they'll pay whatever they're charged and 2) the hospital has to hire thousands of admin staff to work with insurance companies for billing purposes. Those prices simply get passed on to you. And then insurance companies, will do everything in their power to NOT pay it. I had to deal with an insurance company over an ER visit for damn near 18 months before they finally paid it after I threatened to get lawyers involved. By the end of the ordeal, I had paid more in my monthly insurance payments than they paid out, and I spent hours of my own time on the phone with the hospital and them. Had I not been forced by the government to have insurance, I would have just paid the bill out of pocket, and it would have been cheaper.
And mass migration you can expect free healthcare if you have a border that has a million people coming in every year.
And yet the vaccine companies made billions in profits, but are not paying out anything to the hundreds of thousands of vax injured people.
Why do we compare ourselves to just Canada? Why not France or Italy, which have been rated number one (or top 3) a number of times.
The problem here is the focus is for-profit and not care. Look up “dollar bill” McGuire, he made billions and paid his employees bonuses to find ways not to pay for people’s care (even life saving care that was needed).
Also we aren’t number one in quality, that all depends on what specific care we are talking about but often we aren’t.
I’m so happy you guys are having a nuanced conversation about this topic I was forced to leave college early due to poor health from a concussion that I suffered during basketball practice for the school and was unable to continue going to school because of the medical bills
In my country, cancer chemos are even free💀
Nuance... Love it.
The lack of raging Bernie Sanders level of conversation on the topic is beyond me. I hear something like this happening to a fellow Canadian and I'm going straight to the local councillor, writing the mayor, visiting our member of Parliament, and stalking the provincial MP in protest.
Y'all got to put down the 3D glasses and stop making it a blue and red issue and fix this nonsense. No. Playing basketball shouldn't be too risky. No you shouldn't have to choose between school and poverty. Wtf. Nuance?
You should’ve been more metabolically aware. The government failed you in letting you know that basketball is not metabolically efficient
What they are saying about care being better in America is completely fake news to bandage their ego too
Wow. What you described in the beginning costs less than $20 here. I don't even bother with insurance since private Healthcare is so cheap (went for an mri, was inside the machine within 25 minutes, cost $90).
I remember about 10 years ago reading portions of a book by Jason Fung I think. I'm paraphrasing but he said something to the fact that healthy food and fasting could improve peoples health and cut the mortality rate associated with heart disease, obesity, and diabetes in half. I'm not sure if Jason Fung has been on the JRE but I would enjoy seeing/hearing that conversation.
Living in the UK, my healthcare costs are free at the point of service for ambulances and any medical consultations. I have to pay a yearly subscription of roughly $140 for as many medications as I need in that time and I'm due surgery, which will cost me nothing. I wish it were the same everywhere.
🇬🇧
I moved from Europe to the US and I make a LOT more money and enjoy a MUCH better lifestyle here. My insurance is covered by my union and I only pay $5 copay for doctor visits. I would never go back to live in Europe.
Yeah but our model is collapsing under the weight of an increasing and aging population. The average wait time for an ambulance is in the hours now, you're lucky if your scheduled cancer surgery is months away, A&E rooms are basically glorified triages. I love the NHS but it's been a slow motion train crash since 2000.
Do you pay taxes? Then your health care ain't free. And the NHS is garbage system, who's real purpose seems to be job creation for paper pushers these days
Ok but don't act like there aren't waiting lists out the wazoo for backlogs. That it can be like hunting for a unicorn to find NHS dentists in alot of areas. That many maternity trusts are being held accountable for disgraceful care leading to deaths in child birth because of dogmatic insistence to have natural births in order to save money on use of specialists. "Free" ain't free and it isn't necessarily high quality when you need it most.
At the age of 62, our health insurance premium for my wife and me, is $21,600 with $14,000 deductibles. In spite of us having no chronic health issues and not on any prescription medication.
Health insurance cost is outrageous and insane!
I’m Canadian and just spent 9 years in the US. I can attest that he is 100% right on his assessment of cost, quality, and accessibility comparisons between both countries. Excellent discussion!
I’m American living in Canada and my Canadian wife, who I met living in America, hates Canadian healthcare and we drive to Buffalo to get our healthcare using my American insurance.
@@paulhamrick3943 if you don’t mind me asking. What does she hate it?
I live im Canada and i cant get any normal care anymore everything is watered down.
@@Drew-The-Philosopher They don't. They're just ignorant and need to post it here.
@@Drew-The-Philosopher the wait times (9 months to get an ear nose and throat specialist appointment in Ontario) and it has also become clear to her after she spent a decade in the US that the Canadian system saves money by general practitioners erring on the side of ignoring problems/concerns of the patient.
I work in the medical field doing laboratory work for over 20 years. I have seen Tylenol pills that cost 1.5 cents get charged $1.50 each and they give those things out like candy. Lab tests are expensive because the reagents needed to run those tests are not cheap at all. Most people do not know what is going on when they are hospitalized and the doctors know this, so they run a lot of unnecessary tests that have nothing to do with the patient's condition so they get paid for it. Nurses are also complicit in this since they never question physician orders when they should.
You can go to urgent care and get a bill from the clinic, plus you can get a separate bill from the physician themselves, and that is legal. The healthcare system in America needs a massive overhauling but that will never happen. Way too many people make way too much money to change it.
A lot of people behind this SHOULD be in prison. It's inhumane by all intents and definition.
Healthcare costs are high as a result of government interference in the market.
So, yes.
@@docsavage8640You mean lack of government interference. Healthcare costs are high bc of corporate greed and bloated CEO pay.
they turned people health care into a bussines. same with all those media manipulators like we had with coviiid. all criminals
What I'm hearing is, there is a lot of tomfoolery happening between insurance companies, patients (us), and hospitals.
Something needs to be done about this now! It’s so frustrating how much everything costs.
Well to be fair there are some politicians trying to change how all of this works but they get getting shot down
It has to be like this to slowly but surely disintegrate everything including our home .
It's a near-century of planned anti-american politics, trends, and people. This is the consequence of evil, so if you want nothing to do with it then actually show it by disengaging from modernity. All of history wasn't so comfortable, and we have the blessings of having pieces of modernity alongside satisfying our subconscious, primal needs. Find your comfortable way to live if you truly don't like it, or at the very least don't talk down on those who do it and seem crazy to those spending a fortune on nonexistent services
Great Reset
@@jayerbee7147 The real Great Reset is coming and most don't understand it will be with SOLAR Eruption and nothing can be done HENCE GUBBERMENT is trying to get on top of it to have control on the other SIDE....just like all times before!!!!💯
I live in Europe and from 2006 to 2015 I was working for a billing company that works with hospitals and helping them billing patients...I was amazed and could hardly believe that for a regular exam... simple stuff , you had a cold or anything simple and the bill for that was around 8time higher than where I live...amazing...another thing is you actually need to pay if you call an ambulance! Mesmerizingly out of control
in Europe ???? not true !!!!
@@elmadehner i was in europe the company was based in Anchorage but we worked w hospitals all around the us
@@lipcsaiify Anchorage, Alaska
where in Europe ???I am in Germany, in Hospitals, you may be paying 10 euros per Day , if you call an Ambulance also 10 euros or nothing if is ....heart attack or life life-threatening issue.
All other exams and treatments are paid for by health insurance.
Private Insurence is little diffrent
where in europe@@lipcsaiify
I live in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. I had a Stemi-heart attack at my home mid-week around 10 am. My wife called the ambulance and they arrived in 10 minutes. The paramedics gave excellent care and had me diagnosed in minutes. I arrived at a cardiac specialty hospital in 20 minutes, I felt like a F1 driver pulling into the pits. The cardiac team was prepared and very fast acting. They inserted two stents in minutes. All I have to say is that the care I received was 11 out of 10 all the way. Everyone from the paramedics to the cardiologists were very professional and caring. I owe them my life. Due to the quick response I am feeling much better and on the road to recovery. Oh, by the way, I paid nothing out of pocket for all the treatment and follow-up care. I did, however had pre=paid it through higher taxes over the years. No bankruptcy for me.
ill take something that never happened for 500
I've been to Vancouver for a holiday from europe and collapsed in the street. Brought to the hospital by ambulance and was released 7 hours later. Excellent care. the bill was 1000,- which I had to pay up front, not being a citizen. Got it all back from my insurance back in Europe.
…East Van resident here to remind you that it hasn’t been pre-paid enough or else the Provincial/Federal Governments wouldn’t be running chronic fiscal budget deficits for decades with the resulting monetary inflation being a major contributing factor towards so-called “unaffordable housing”…, but best of luck to you recovery, eh!
It might be working in bc but in Ontario our system is not working so well. Our healthcare system is broken.
@@Chris-hb6jt it likely did. I'm Canadian and this stuff isn't unheard of...
However, if you had a pain in your chest that was nagging you for a couple weeks, and you went to the doctor about it, he'd book you for a scan, and you'd have to wait 2 years. No joke.
Emergent care can be quite good. But the rest of the system is fucking slow and crazy.
In the UK treatment is free at the point of use because the government provides cover for all paid for via a “National Insurance” that all working age people pay as a percentage of earnings. So rather than pay an insurance company you pay the government to provide your care in their own facilities. There is no profit incentive in the system as the government own the hospitals, the staff are government employees and the purchasing power of the government (i.e. drugs etc.) keeps cost low. Records are central so you can be treated anywhere and they have your up to date records. The only paperwork you’ll be asked for is to sign a treatment consent form. Public health improvement schemes are a priority as it directly benefits the country by reducing government spending on health. However, if you want “private” medical treatment you are more than entitled to use the many private health providers and either pay directly or take out private insurance. But the costs of even this is relatively low compared to the US because people have a free alternative and just wouldn’t pay the extortionate costs considered normal in the US. When you become ill your main concern should be getting better, not worrying about how you’ll pay for the treatment you need.
I worked on auditing the financial structures of healthcare facilities for four years. Just in that span of time I was able to see the insane prices people pay for different levels of care. The insurance aspect of it still makes limited sense to me and “base” prices change multiple times through out the year for no particular reason. I just hope for a healthy life, and I hope others are able to stay healthy as well. I have seen how serious medical emergencies can completely cripple someone financially, let alone the emotional burden of having to go through a medical emergency itself. I have to imagine that rising costs of living, costs of supplies, overhead, and especially the costs of contracted employees which is outrageous (since getting anyone to stay at a job right now is impossible) are key factors in the high prices of care.
Or go become a citizen of a government that provides care and protection for their people
@@VinylCP I wish it was that easy. Most countries have strict immigration laws, even for us Americans.
Apart from the ridiculous costs, its funny how all their mistakes they make is always in their favor.
@@VinylCP Citizen of what nations? I’ve lived in many of them and used their healthcare. None compare well with the US, even Canada, Finland, Germany, or Sweden. Guess who foots the bill for protecting those nations militarily?
I am will be graduating this May with a degree in Healthcare administration, and after everything I’ve learned in classes and through my internships I cannot say that I want to build a career in healthcare due to the broken system. Our nation prioritizes profiting off the little man instead of investing in public and preventative health. There is no reason why someone should be billed $500 for a check up with their physician. The government needs a wake up call or we are all doomed.
Where are you going that you pay $500 for a standard doctor visit? My doctor charges $125 for a non insured person to have an appointment. That's a far cry from $500. If you want to fix Healthcare then you need to remove the incentive for outlandish bureaucracy and get the government out of the business of it.
@@ram89572 that’s what someone I know got charged from an office visit to Sutter health in SF. Their insurance didn’t cover it because they hadn’t reached their deductible yet.
@@COLORZ3R0 Oh California. Makes sense then. Nothing there is ever within reason
@@ram89572 So you think profit should be the prime motivation in healthcare-administration? To my european ears that sounds really unhealthy tbh. Private health-insurance comanies love bureaucracy btw as it prevents competition so they can keep robbing you blind.
@@iliketoast-q9b And what is government mandated public healthcare - theft plain and simple. Someone forcing their hand into my pocket to steal my labor to distribute to a bunch of other shitheads as they see fit. Government anything is evil. I fully expect that you claiming to be european would love communistic crap like that. Socialism is communism by a nicer name because I do not get to voluntarily engage or disengage with that system. The state uses a monopoly on force to compel participation in that system and steal from the individual. Taxation is theft. Government is evil. Centralized government power is the most evil. And you know something else. You can choose to not engage with private healthcare (at least you could before Tyrant OFuckFace enacted his OFuckerCare) if you are worried about them "robbing you blind." You can also choose to not engage with overly expensive treatments and accept that you might die sooner. It is not incumbent upon me to pay for you to live a little bit longer. Just like I don't expect you to pay for me to live longer by me sending an agent to steal from you and cry "THE GREATER GOOD! PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE"
As a canadian i had 2 knee surgeries in 2022. Didn't cost me anything, awesome cares and gov is helping me to get back on my feet. God bless my beautiful Canada
I’m American, I lived in Switzerland for a few years and their insurance system is PRIVATE and it’s incredible. And, it does NOT cost an arm and a leg. US policy makers should look into their system, because it can certainly work in the US, BUT we’d need to get rid of the corrupt back-door contractual prices and that’s something no one wants to do.
In Switzerland the health insurance is provided by private entities, but it is highly regulated by the state, while in the usa it is optional and almost entirely market driven.
@@mislavsprajc669 Yes, that is the difference in a nutshell. When I learned how they calculate premiums, I was shocked because this could be easily implemented in the US.
Every time I get an inclination to move back to the states (I live in Amsterdam now) I think of healthcare and snap TF out of it. Blew my mind to walk out of the doctor's office and not have to worry about rent because of how much my hospital bill was
My son had to spend 1 week in the ICU and another 2 weeks in the hospital. No surgeries. Hospital bill was about 600k. Insurance paid all but 3 grand. Lots of crazy charges like 9 grand for a EKG.
Where was this?