You're right, it can't. It literally can't, as in, Kodak will not be able to survive solely on rich hipsters. But I can't imagine they aren't aware of that, so it makes me wonder if Kodak is purposely driving the company into the ground.
@@Nitiduswell there is that part of me that thought Kodak did the throw back thing, it caught on and that demand was more than Kodak anticipated. So now they just want to kill it off with bigger prices. I think the only affordable film will be black and white.
Went into a camera store recently and this trust fund kiddy hipster type with his hassleblad spent $350 on film. Paid for with his Black Amex card. Didnt even blink an eye. And he didn't buy much at all. So yeah its the rich kids the ones only being able to afford colour film.
I am currently shooting more and more black and white film I absolutely love film, but if film reaches an average of 20 dollars per roll, I would probably stop shooting film or just much less frequently. It's just horrible and honestly I think it's a big mistake to just keep raising the prices. There is currently a huge resurgence in film photigraphy and kodak does everything in their power to suffocate that new demand (especially younger people like me who don't have that much money to spend).
For me, honestly, nowadays I contemplate two options: 1. I start shooting b&w and developing on my own ‘cause I haven’t seen b&w film price increase. 2. Shooting a roll of film way less frequently than I did before. It’s so sad that nowadays film photography has become such an expensive hobby for us, and the fact that we have to pay even more is kinda bananas. Looks like my brand new Leica III will not shoot many rolls of film in 2025 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Shooting black and white film and developing it myself is such a super nice process. Personal I do stand developing as it's super easy. At about $8 per roll of black and white film for about $0.70 per shot ain't great but its not too bad. (I shoot 120 film)
@@VincentDub I already have some Russian rangefinders like FEDs and one KIEV-4 (Contax III knockoff). They all come with the M39 mount (except the Kiev), plus I have a bunch of cheap Soviet lenses like Helios-44,44-2, some Industars, etc. I’ve bought a Leica because it was like making a dream come true: my dad always wanted to own one, but he never had the chance, so I was able to buy one for a good price, considering it was restored, cleaned and lubricated. :)
@@t3zla736yeah keep the Leica then and bulk roll your films I guess. Bulk rolling foma 400 costs me 6$ Canadian a roll and I develop myself. I’d like to shoot Rollei 80s and bulk roll that next. For color I prefer ektachrome so I buy rolls of motion picture ekta 100D, but now Kodak stopped selling to individuals so it’s very hard to get a spool these days. And that costs more or less 20$/roll , which is fine for slides imo. And I shoot a Leica CL with a canon 50 1.4 LTM with a bunch of separation and fungus in the lens lol, but I like the look. Looks a bit muddy with foma 400 but quite a clean look and decently sharp with 80s.
As a beginner the prices are insane. That’s why I only shoot a roll once a month, and for my personal portfolio. A real shame that the prices keep going up, but that’s the industry we chose to go into. Great video btw. Love the channel and content.
Film photography became a luxury hobby twenty years ago. There has been a resurgence in film in the last ten years, but the painful truth is that film photography is going to be a luxury hobby. No one needs to shoot film for professional work anymore. The average consumer just uses their smartphone for holiday snaps and family events. Film is no longer a necessity in the marketplace. Prices will inevitably reflect this. One small glimmer of hope is with the increase in AI created or modified imagery we are seeing in the commercial sector. The more this becomes prevalent, the more the hobbyists are going to be turned off anything "digital," which may result in an increase in the demand for 'analogue' photography in an attempt to "keep it real."
15 years ago beginners still can afford to get old used camera and getting films cheap. Some even said it's cheaper than getting digital camera. Now it's the opposite.
@@kos2919 You can still buy great 35mm film cameras for not a lot of money. It's the film that's the problem. I've been hand rolling Kodak Vision 250D for colour (and buying bulk rolls of FP4/HP5/Kentmere/Fomapan for hand rolling B&W). This has kept the price of 36Exp rolls of colour film below £4.50, but I hear Kodak are about to clamp down on Vision film stock AND put up the price of consumer 35mm film, so a double whammy. My second choice for colour is Kodak Image Pro 100, which is currently £9 (£8.70 if I buy in bulk) a roll in the UK. I can live on B&W, which in all honesty is still pretty well priced, but the cost of colour is going to be getting a bit silly in the near future.
@@kos2919Used film cameras are still pretty cheap. Film can be cheap too if you know where to look and if you're willing to shoot something else than portra. Prices are increasing though, and that is both demand driven and inflation driven. The sad reality of all things.
@@00anta Indeed. China once again come to the (affordable) rescue. Sure their films are thin and it can be tricky to use and develop. But they're CHEAP!
As an old photographer this pissed me off so much. I remember able to buy a bulk of film rolls a dozen or two super cheap and just use them royally too. Now even black and white films are ass expensive.
There isn’t another film company that produces the variety of film that Kodak does. As you pointed out, their facility is massive and very complex and they are currently working to update it. Plus they are lowering the price of Tri-X this upcoming year. But I would only imagine the price of raw materials and shipping have increased like crazy for Kodak and thus we the consumer and taking the hit. I guess I don’t think about it too much because it’s just one of many things that has rocketed in price.
Brand new to film here and it’s quite sad how expensive it is 😢 I was so excited to get into this medium. I jumped in head first and now I develop and scan my own film to try and save money. It actually makes me want to go out and take photos again for fun. I shoot professionally and it felt like work taking my mirrorless setup out to shoot for fun but film re sparked my passion.
It really depends what you shoot and if you develop yourself or send it out. You don’t have to buy Portra 800 or Cinestill. Ultramax is $9 on B&H. And if you develop at home it’s even cheaper. Black and white is even cheaper/easier if you shoot Kentmere or Fomapan and develop yourself. Yes, it sucks the higher end films are so expensive … but there are alternatives
Funny that I actually subscribed after watching that video talking about the future of Fujifilm. I started shooting film in high school (I'm 30 now). I finally gave up on film this year after being priced out. The cost was stopping me from shooting. (I had frequent shots of 'what if this turns out to be a bad shoot,' or 'what if I make a mistake and botch the whole roll,' or 'should I I really pull the shutter button on this shot or another one?') The experience is so expensive, it's become miserable for us mere mortals. The amount of money at stake stopped me from enjoying shooting. I switched over to an OM Systems Om-1, and I haven't looked back. Film has its place for sure, but it's become too expensive to justify for the average millennial photographer. Besides, since switching to digital, having more control over the image in software has really pushed my abilities, which I'm not realizing were stagnating because I was relying on film to carry the look and aesthetic of my work. I'm sure this isn't true of everyone, but just my personal experience.
Well, looks like some folks are going to look for expired film, and being honestly, that’s probably a very good choice. I mean, you can find expired film for a reasonable price nowadays and most of the times the results are good.
I have a heck ton of expired and unused film in the fridge. I recently bought an x100f and i am so glad i did. The digital images this puts put has me over the moon.
My 'pain tolerance' for film was reached years ago. Currently here in New Zealand a 'cheap' consumer film like Kodak Gold can be $30NZ per roll, while Portra is around $50NZ per roll!!!!! There ain't no way I can afford colour film prices - and its probably only going to get worse.... So I choose to shoot b&w and develop myself. At least a roll of Rollei 400 is a more 'reasonable' $15NZ per roll (although I can remember the days, not 'that' long ago, when it would have been $5NZ per roll).
„we are willing to pay…“… Yeah, i am not. I just got into this hobby and didn‘t have time to try some films, and i never will, because of the price increases. No need to „like“ a certain film when it will cost too much to use it.. I think i‘ll try bulk loading, after having just started, because anything else isn‘t at all sustainable.
We also have to remember that at one point Kodak had almost all of its eggs on one basket. With the popularity of film slowly coming back I can see how it could be strategic to maximize profits while waiting to see if the film market will collapse again. My hope is that film is here to stay and prices will come down in the future.
What's going to bring it down? Increased demand is supposed to lead to increased production, which in turn is SUPPOSED to force prices to fall, or at bare minimum, cause them to stabilize. None of it has happened. The rules of the marketplace just don't seem to apply in this instance. WHY?
With all due respect, and without wishing to offend anyone, Kodak/Alaris in particular due to tehir near monopoly in colour film production, and then to some extent Harman/Ilford and others can not just be looking at a small minority of photographers, mostly You Tubers who will pay any price for film in order to churn out videos after videos week after week, and think that all other people are both willing and able to pay the ridiculously high film prices. I have already started limitng my usage of film, and will probably stop using it in favour of digital. Thousands of £££s of film cameras in all formats that I have amassed over 50 years of photography will have to be got rid of, and I know that I am not to blame.
@@Alexius1Komnenos Never heard a more stupid reply to a post. No commodity or product has increased by as much as film has in the last five years, and now if we were to believe the reports another doubling in price is on its way. I wonder who is unintelligent here?????
First a bekated Happy New Year to everyone. As I am shooting only one or two rolls of film in about half a year I do, of course, notice the increases. But it's still managable cost for me. I am also shooting digital (in fact I do do most of the time) and film photography to me means taking that sip of nostalgic feeling using my Spotmatic 2. And so I will keep shooting here and there for that bit of pleasure using fully mechanic gear, except I will have to pay like 25-30€ fof a roll 35mm. At that point I would certainly be out of the game.
I'm in my 60's, film's about the same price today as it was when I started in the early 70's. It got cheap for a few years about 10/15 years ago, now it's normalising.
I shoot a fair bit of Foma, and they've kept prices sane. A slight increase here or there, but nothing insane like the Kodak rises. Luckily I have a fridge full of colour stocks, but I'm certainly not replacing it at today's prices. I'll move entirely to b&w instead of paying Kodak for holding me over a barrel.
Fujifilm is investing in their production facility in China. Goods from China can be transported to Europe fairly quickly and cheaply by railway. On the other hand, goods from the USA predominantly sail on cargo ships across the pond. So, for us European analogue shooters, there is a faint glimmer of hope that Fujifilm stocks at some point will become easily accessible and at a slightly more attractive price point than Kodak's. There's no doubt the retailers will benefit from the price gap the most but if the end user pays a little less, that's still a win. In the long run though, film photography will become less and less accessible to consumers.
Another aspect of film prices that was kind of mentioned under material costs and inflation, but not really, is the price of silver (which helps to make the light sensitive component of film). People buy silver directly as a hedge against inflation, so when inflation kicks into high gear there’s a simultaneous increase in demand for this particular material that increases prices well beyond what you will see in most other products… we film photographers get a double whammy when it comes to price increases because of it. (Maybe we will get a reprieve eventually, because I read the other day that silver prices are expected to drop in 2025… though it obviously didn’t come quick enough to spare us from the upcoming price increase.)
Absolutely! I remember shooting color film in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s and a roll of Kodak Color 35mm film was 5.99. Back then we didn’t shoot random photos of mailboxes and gas stations, we made every frame count. Most of us in home use would shoot maybe 3 rolls a year. I worked as a professional and that was a different story, I would shoot 50 rolls a month.
I have heard it mentioned before and kind of agree that film companies are raising prices to weed folks out so that production is in line with demand. There seems to a demand for film that way out of sync with production capacity. I really would prefer to not pay 20 bucks or more a roll but it’s probably coming.
Kodak and Fujifilm aren’t as invested in film as Ilford. Ilford can’t afford to alienate their customers with exorbitant prices, and their black and white film is so good that I don’t even think of buying Kodak b/w film. I also enjoy shooting Shanghai GP3, available in 120 and even in 220.
I stocked up before the January 1st price increases. Got a 10 pack of Kodak Gold 200 in 135 and four five packs of Kodak Gold in 120. I still have a shit ton of expired 120 I need to shoot first so I should be good for 2025.
For me color photography moved almost completely to digital. I have some Portra and Ektar rolls I use here and there but I doubt it will be full time photography as it was earlier. On the other hand B&W is going to stay on film for me. Good to great film is cheap or very cheap if you buy bulk rolls. Same for chemistry, in pinch there are recepies from developers that go from caffenol through Rodinal and ending on VitC XTOL equivalents like Mytol so it can be even cheaper. But color, no. I am not rich enough.
I still have some sheets of Ilford 4X5 left, but I'm probably done with color film. I might shoot 120 B&W again in my medium format cameras and my roll film holder, but I doubt I'll be doing much 35mm. I remember getting Fuji Velvia for $6/roll when I started in the early 90's. Seeing color transparency film going for close to $30/roll is INSANE! I think the big film manufacturers are taking advantage of the trend, and in the process, they are gong to price out the very customer base that originally wanted to buy it.
The issue is that 6.00 roll in the 90’s is probably equivalent to at least 20.00 a roll now and don’t think film was ever cheap. I have not shot any slide film in a few years, it’s just too expensive for me, But I agree on the black and white, it’s what I mostly shoot and may eventually be the only film that I shoot when I’m out of color stocks.
I'm probably going to be way more picky with what I shoot and how I shoot. At the end of the day, we all need some form of recreational activity and I think in today's world, if you spend around $100 a month on a hobby, you are not being careless with your expenditure. I used to spend way more than I do now on going out for drinks and food. Getting older means your expenditure habits change and you end up moving money to different activities. Of course, if you are a young person with not much income, then you are going to find it really hard to shoot film. And that's where the problem lies for me. Film manufacturers need that next generation of film shooters so they can have a business in the years to come. I'm not sure the current prices are going to help that cause in the long run.
What about film prices since the original decline started, I guess 2002 or so? I think Kodak has complained that they dumped prices in order to get any film sold, in the initial panic. And that now they are just restoring reasonable pricing. Is there any merit to this? Ie looking at a roll of (for example) Portra 400 in 2002 vs today, and comparing that graph to inflation?
This made me curious. I used the waybackmachine to look at prices on B&H in 2008. 1 roll of HP5 (120): $3.45 vs $8.71. 1 roll of Ektar (135): $4.5 vs $14.99. I wonder if Kodak's argument would come even close to holding up, when compared to 2002 prices?
It’s quality over quantity for me, I mostly shoot Black and White 35mm and large format, and black and white and some color in medium format. Over all I shoot about 80% in black and white film. I developed all of my black and white and color film myself. With color developing, I save up my rolls and order the Cinestill kit for around 40.00 and just develop about 20 rolls over maybe a couple of weeks. So it’s not really that expensive. I probably buy one C-41 developing kit per year.
I'm preparing my photolab for a sizable reduction in c-41 developing demand for 2025, in the order of 10-25% from two years ago. If Kodak and Fuji price disposable cameras out of the market then a major chunk of the overall c-41 film demand will disappear. Or, if they keep prices of disposables relatively low, hobbyists might end up buying them for the film. Disposables have been the unheralded star of the demand for colour film. Labs that invested in developing equipment in 2022 and later will be screwed by reduced volume threatening the c-41 part of the business. Signs are c-41 will go back to being a niche rather than growth. B/W may be the hopeful part of the market/hobby because a local lab isn't a necessity. I have positive feelings about Harman (Ilford) when it comes to treating their market fairly. Much less so about Kodak and Fuji.
There's nothing wrong with shooting Fuji400(usa). 3 packs are $25, so a bit over $8 per roll. HP5 I think is still around $9. ColorPlus around $9 too. Those are my go-to films. Portra is nice but I don't really need that every time.
And when you look at historic prices at 3-4$ for a 24exp roll back in the early 90s then with inflation the current prices of 25$ for 3x 36exp file is actually not that bad.
I've never really liked the color science of modern Fuji. Yes, I can definitely fix that in lightroom, but that somewhat defeats one of the main purposes of me shooting film.
Visiting Mexico, bought a roll of Kodak gold for 200 pesos or ~ $9 (usually found for 250 tho) might be worth ‘bulk’ importing if the option presents itself
I've wanted to shoot more of the portras and slide films, but I just can't justify it and continue using the "Fuji" 3 packs. And I am starting to appreciate more black and white, while I still prefer color, buying cheaper arista edu, fomapan and kentmere has been fun to shoot with. I am still annoyed about Fuji going all in on instax at the expense of everything else. I get why Kodak is going after the respoolers, but it makes it no longer affordable for people to shoot e100 or vision 3
I'm sure there are a bunch of "film was never cheap" comments. These people need to do inflation calculations. Film was cheap. It's basic math. The information is out there. Do your own research. Your parents said film was expensive and rationed it because they weren't photographers. They were just trying to capture memories.
My parents NEVER shot as much film as most of us do today, It was expensive back then aswell. film was something for documentation and family not so much pretty pictures of gas stations and flowers. (my family atleast) That being said I'll still shoot even with the prices, I'll just be much more selective on what I'm talking pictures of.
Yep back when I was younger in the 1980’s and 1990’s most people were shooting about 2-3 rolls of color film per year. In the 1990’s Kodak color 35mm film was about 5.99 a roll. It was always an expensive product. The labs used to charge about 5.00 for developing and prints in the 1990’s.
Yes, agree, when I was a kid in the 80's dad took the photos and it was maybe 5-8 rolls a year. When I did B/W for school we bulk loaded and did maybe a couple rolls a week. Film Photography was never something people did because it was affordable. It was always expensive and most people didn't do it. My dad was one of the few people that took photos in our neighborhood.
Hobbyist photographers DID absolutely exist back then, it just sounds like you didn't grow up with them. You are right though that film was always considered expensive.
The answer is for Kodak to partner with Leica or another camera manufacturer and create near 1:1 film emulations digitally. Film will not get more affordable ever unless demand goes up like 100x. Film will always be for the enthusiast who is willing to pay for it.
I can't justify the cost. I have one roll left and I think it'll be my last. I have a ton of Instax Film I can use and will continue to use, but 35mm unless I develop and scan it myself is more expensive. At least where I live
This is the exact OPPOSITE of how the market is SUPPOSED to react to more people shooting MORE film - the increased demand SHOULD exert a downward pressure on film prices - not a ton, maybe, but priced should be going down as more film is produced to meet the rising demand for it. SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE PICTURE - but don't waste your time trying to figure it out. Logic ain't in it.
It is. European prices are crazy! Even consumer films are costly. For example, a roll of Kodak Ultramax 400 costs €17.68 (approximately $19), Kodak Gold 200 is €19 (around $20.40), Kodak Pro Image is €16.50 (about $17.70), and pro-grade films are even pricier.
At some time in the distant past I was a film shooter. I always had my Leica with me and loaded with film, and it was just the way I worked and enjoyed the experience. Then digital took over; the easy of use, no wait time to see the results, and although an initial investment in camera and computer the convenience of the digital system won out. But, I still have the film use process in my bones. I’ve got 50 some rolls of outdated, mostly B&W film, here to use, and a couple cameras (that need service, and I have to think about the value/cost of that!) to use it with and wondering how long it will take me to go through those rolls (probably years). It’s hard to get any motivation to shoot film now, and in the distant future when I finally use what I have and prices go up even more, I’m going to just be priced out and feel its not worthwhile. I admire all those that are dedicated to film use, and the whole ‘renaissance’ of film we hear about. But, then It just seems like a loosing battle unless you just really enjoy the whole film use process. (And, from what I see almost everyone has abandoned the darkroom for digital post-processing anyway)
With Silver prices over that 5 years going up 60+% vs 20ish% inflation. I'm not sure the comparison to the general inflation rate is relevant and that's just one input. Also, according to Kodak Alaris's most recent annual report they operated at a loss.
@@Nitidus My apologies, I see now that I didn't leave enough context, my point wasn't about Kodak or Fuji raising prices per se. It was about the fact that approximately 40% of the films tracked and 70% of the c-41 films are kodak manufactured causing kodaks financial insecurity to possibly skew Perception provided by the graph.
Microeconomics? After inflation the primary factor is supply and demand. Like you said production decreased when demand fell (when digital took off) and manufacturers compensated by downsizing their capacity and in some cases scrapping excess machinery(?). Now film is experiencing a significant come-back and those companies still around are in catch-up mode. Demand exceeds supply driving up prices. Companies like Kodak are reinvesting in their factories to increase capacity. It will take a while but prices will eventually stabilize at some level. Rather than be sad it's more expensive we should rejoice in the fact that film will be around for many years to come.
Agree! Price increases are due to supply/demand imbalance. I’m thrilled to hear demand is strong enough to justify large investments in manufacturing capacity. Also, high film prices might entice new entrants into film manufacturing which would provide more choices of film stocks. There is some silver lining, even though it’s painful to see some films north of $20/roll.
Very fortunate to have Candido in the UK selling de remjetted vision3 for the much more sane price of £11-15 Certainly worth it given how expensive the markup is for cinestill for 35mm! Also fortunate for shops like analogue wonderland that ship near expiry (6 months mostly) film for some bargain prices, ive seen places selling stuff full price that has passed its expiry date (Yes it would be perfectly fine! but it just shows that its been sat for a long time and they clearly haven't been selling them!)
I dont think its possible for them to sell for less. We must be thankful that film is still made in 2024!.i shoot one roll per month. Considering the cheap price of film camera, its not a big problem with film+develop+scan charges
Late stage capitalism in all its glory. Personally I can only deal with shooting b&w, developing at home. Thinking about bulk loading my rolls too. Fuck color prices.
I do hope film will become affordable again. It can’t just be a hobby for the idle rich.
You're right, it can't. It literally can't, as in, Kodak will not be able to survive solely on rich hipsters. But I can't imagine they aren't aware of that, so it makes me wonder if Kodak is purposely driving the company into the ground.
It already is. Cause there’s no sane professional that will shoot film with prices the way they are now. Let alone it becoming profitable.
Exactly
@@Nitiduswell there is that part of me that thought Kodak did the throw back thing, it caught on and that demand was more than Kodak anticipated. So now they just want to kill it off with bigger prices. I think the only affordable film will be black and white.
Went into a camera store recently and this trust fund kiddy hipster type with his hassleblad spent $350 on film. Paid for with his Black Amex card. Didnt even blink an eye. And he didn't buy much at all. So yeah its the rich kids the ones only being able to afford colour film.
I am currently shooting more and more black and white film
I absolutely love film, but if film reaches an average of 20 dollars per roll, I would probably stop shooting film or just much less frequently.
It's just horrible and honestly I think it's a big mistake to just keep raising the prices. There is currently a huge resurgence in film photigraphy and kodak does everything in their power to suffocate that new demand (especially younger people like me who don't have that much money to spend).
Nothing will stop me from my passion. Money has no value unless I spend it on something I love 🤷🏼♂️
For me, honestly, nowadays I contemplate two options:
1. I start shooting b&w and developing on my own ‘cause I haven’t seen b&w film price increase.
2. Shooting a roll of film way less frequently than I did before.
It’s so sad that nowadays film photography has become such an expensive hobby for us, and the fact that we have to pay even more is kinda bananas. Looks like my brand new Leica III will not shoot many rolls of film in 2025 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Maybe don't be poor?
Shooting black and white film and developing it myself is such a super nice process.
Personal I do stand developing as it's super easy.
At about $8 per roll of black and white film for about $0.70 per shot ain't great but its not too bad. (I shoot 120 film)
Sell the leica get a cheap range finder with a good lens, and buy loads of films
@@VincentDub I already have some Russian rangefinders like FEDs and one KIEV-4 (Contax III knockoff). They all come with the M39 mount (except the Kiev), plus I have a bunch of cheap Soviet lenses like Helios-44,44-2, some Industars, etc. I’ve bought a Leica because it was like making a dream come true: my dad always wanted to own one, but he never had the chance, so I was able to buy one for a good price, considering it was restored, cleaned and lubricated. :)
@@t3zla736yeah keep the Leica then and bulk roll your films I guess. Bulk rolling foma 400 costs me 6$ Canadian a roll and I develop myself. I’d like to shoot Rollei 80s and bulk roll that next. For color I prefer ektachrome so I buy rolls of motion picture ekta 100D, but now Kodak stopped selling to individuals so it’s very hard to get a spool these days. And that costs more or less 20$/roll , which is fine for slides imo. And I shoot a Leica CL with a canon 50 1.4 LTM with a bunch of separation and fungus in the lens lol, but I like the look. Looks a bit muddy with foma 400 but quite a clean look and decently sharp with 80s.
As a beginner the prices are insane. That’s why I only shoot a roll once a month, and for my personal portfolio. A real shame that the prices keep going up, but that’s the industry we chose to go into. Great video btw. Love the channel and content.
Surely it’s good news that Harman have invested millions in R&D and new equipment this year that will double the amount of film they can produce.
Film photography became a luxury hobby twenty years ago. There has been a resurgence in film in the last ten years, but the painful truth is that film photography is going to be a luxury hobby. No one needs to shoot film for professional work anymore. The average consumer just uses their smartphone for holiday snaps and family events. Film is no longer a necessity in the marketplace. Prices will inevitably reflect this.
One small glimmer of hope is with the increase in AI created or modified imagery we are seeing in the commercial sector. The more this becomes prevalent, the more the hobbyists are going to be turned off anything "digital," which may result in an increase in the demand for 'analogue' photography in an attempt to "keep it real."
15 years ago beginners still can afford to get old used camera and getting films cheap. Some even said it's cheaper than getting digital camera. Now it's the opposite.
@@kos2919 You can still buy great 35mm film cameras for not a lot of money.
It's the film that's the problem.
I've been hand rolling Kodak Vision 250D for colour (and buying bulk rolls of FP4/HP5/Kentmere/Fomapan for hand rolling B&W).
This has kept the price of 36Exp rolls of colour film below £4.50, but I hear Kodak are about to clamp down on Vision film stock AND put up the price of consumer 35mm film, so a double whammy. My second choice for colour is Kodak Image Pro 100, which is currently £9 (£8.70 if I buy in bulk) a roll in the UK.
I can live on B&W, which in all honesty is still pretty well priced, but the cost of colour is going to be getting a bit silly in the near future.
@@Focal_Paradox Yeah, that's what I'm saying. There's still cheap cameras we can get in flea market. The films however.
@@kos2919Used film cameras are still pretty cheap. Film can be cheap too if you know where to look and if you're willing to shoot something else than portra. Prices are increasing though, and that is both demand driven and inflation driven. The sad reality of all things.
@@00anta Indeed. China once again come to the (affordable) rescue. Sure their films are thin and it can be tricky to use and develop. But they're CHEAP!
As an old photographer this pissed me off so much.
I remember able to buy a bulk of film rolls a dozen or two super cheap and just use them royally too.
Now even black and white films are ass expensive.
I don’t use film as my main medium anymore but from working at one of the bigger camera stores it’s sad to see it increase even more
There isn’t another film company that produces the variety of film that Kodak does. As you pointed out, their facility is massive and very complex and they are currently working to update it. Plus they are lowering the price of Tri-X this upcoming year. But I would only imagine the price of raw materials and shipping have increased like crazy for Kodak and thus we the consumer and taking the hit. I guess I don’t think about it too much because it’s just one of many things that has rocketed in price.
Brand new to film here and it’s quite sad how expensive it is 😢 I was so excited to get into this medium. I jumped in head first and now I develop and scan my own film to try and save money. It actually makes me want to go out and take photos again for fun. I shoot professionally and it felt like work taking my mirrorless setup out to shoot for fun but film re sparked my passion.
Agree 100% - developing and scanning at home saves me not only on the developing but also on the postage to send in my film.
It really depends what you shoot and if you develop yourself or send it out. You don’t have to buy Portra 800 or Cinestill. Ultramax is $9 on B&H. And if you develop at home it’s even cheaper. Black and white is even cheaper/easier if you shoot Kentmere or Fomapan and develop yourself. Yes, it sucks the higher end films are so expensive … but there are alternatives
Funny that I actually subscribed after watching that video talking about the future of Fujifilm. I started shooting film in high school (I'm 30 now). I finally gave up on film this year after being priced out. The cost was stopping me from shooting. (I had frequent shots of 'what if this turns out to be a bad shoot,' or 'what if I make a mistake and botch the whole roll,' or 'should I I really pull the shutter button on this shot or another one?') The experience is so expensive, it's become miserable for us mere mortals. The amount of money at stake stopped me from enjoying shooting. I switched over to an OM Systems Om-1, and I haven't looked back. Film has its place for sure, but it's become too expensive to justify for the average millennial photographer. Besides, since switching to digital, having more control over the image in software has really pushed my abilities, which I'm not realizing were stagnating because I was relying on film to carry the look and aesthetic of my work. I'm sure this isn't true of everyone, but just my personal experience.
Well, looks like some folks are going to look for expired film, and being honestly, that’s probably a very good choice. I mean, you can find expired film for a reasonable price nowadays and most of the times the results are good.
Reasonable? Expired film cost what perfectly good film used to cost lol
@@valeblizyep! See expired film going for more than new fresh film.
Except when they aren't.
I have a heck ton of expired and unused film in the fridge.
I recently bought an x100f and i am so glad i did. The digital images this puts put has me over the moon.
My 'pain tolerance' for film was reached years ago. Currently here in New Zealand a 'cheap' consumer film like Kodak Gold can be $30NZ per roll, while Portra is around $50NZ per roll!!!!! There ain't no way I can afford colour film prices - and its probably only going to get worse....
So I choose to shoot b&w and develop myself. At least a roll of Rollei 400 is a more 'reasonable' $15NZ per roll (although I can remember the days, not 'that' long ago, when it would have been $5NZ per roll).
„we are willing to pay…“…
Yeah, i am not. I just got into this hobby and didn‘t have time to try some films, and i never will, because of the price increases. No need to „like“ a certain film when it will cost too much to use it..
I think i‘ll try bulk loading, after having just started, because anything else isn‘t at all sustainable.
We also have to remember that at one point Kodak had almost all of its eggs on one basket. With the popularity of film slowly coming back I can see how it could be strategic to maximize profits while waiting to see if the film market will collapse again. My hope is that film is here to stay and prices will come down in the future.
What's going to bring it down? Increased demand is supposed to lead to increased production, which in turn is SUPPOSED to force prices to fall, or at bare minimum, cause them to stabilize. None of it has happened. The rules of the marketplace just don't seem to apply in this instance. WHY?
With all due respect, and without wishing to offend anyone, Kodak/Alaris in particular due to tehir near monopoly in colour film production, and then to some extent Harman/Ilford and others can not just be looking at a small minority of photographers, mostly You Tubers who will pay any price for film in order to churn out videos after videos week after week, and think that all other people are both willing and able to pay the ridiculously high film prices. I have already started limitng my usage of film, and will probably stop using it in favour of digital. Thousands of £££s of film cameras in all formats that I have amassed over 50 years of photography will have to be got rid of, and I know that I am not to blame.
If you think they're doing this because they're a greedy monopoly trying to screw you over you're unintelligent
@@Alexius1Komnenos Never heard a more stupid reply to a post. No commodity or product has increased by as much as film has in the last five years, and now if we were to believe the reports another doubling in price is on its way. I wonder who is unintelligent here?????
My local lab is having its regular end-of-year 50% sale tomorrow, I can't wait to stock up!
Do you live in socal? Lol
@filmdoglb lol nah
Update: got a threepack of kodak gold for only 60 GEL, so a single 36-exposure roll was only around $7!
@@qorrro I'm jealous lol. But happy for you
First a bekated Happy New Year to everyone.
As I am shooting only one or two rolls of film in about half a year I do, of course, notice the increases.
But it's still managable cost for me. I am also shooting digital (in fact I do do most of the time) and film photography
to me means taking that sip of nostalgic feeling using my Spotmatic 2.
And so I will keep shooting here and there for that bit of pleasure using fully mechanic gear, except I will have to pay like 25-30€ fof a roll 35mm.
At that point I would certainly be out of the game.
It is all about the raw materials and specially silver price rising and not inflation in manufacturing process. Nothing more than that.
I'm in my 60's, film's about the same price today as it was when I started in the early 70's. It got cheap for a few years about 10/15 years ago, now it's normalising.
I shoot a fair bit of Foma, and they've kept prices sane. A slight increase here or there, but nothing insane like the Kodak rises.
Luckily I have a fridge full of colour stocks, but I'm certainly not replacing it at today's prices. I'll move entirely to b&w instead of paying Kodak for holding me over a barrel.
Great topic and interesting data. Thanks for sharing!
Do you know what else is insane? How about the price of high end camera bodies? $9495 for a Leica, $6500 for mirrorless, etc…
Fujifilm is investing in their production facility in China. Goods from China can be transported to Europe fairly quickly and cheaply by railway. On the other hand, goods from the USA predominantly sail on cargo ships across the pond. So, for us European analogue shooters, there is a faint glimmer of hope that Fujifilm stocks at some point will become easily accessible and at a slightly more attractive price point than Kodak's. There's no doubt the retailers will benefit from the price gap the most but if the end user pays a little less, that's still a win. In the long run though, film photography will become less and less accessible to consumers.
Another aspect of film prices that was kind of mentioned under material costs and inflation, but not really, is the price of silver (which helps to make the light sensitive component of film). People buy silver directly as a hedge against inflation, so when inflation kicks into high gear there’s a simultaneous increase in demand for this particular material that increases prices well beyond what you will see in most other products… we film photographers get a double whammy when it comes to price increases because of it. (Maybe we will get a reprieve eventually, because I read the other day that silver prices are expected to drop in 2025… though it obviously didn’t come quick enough to spare us from the upcoming price increase.)
Film was never cheap, that is just how it was. Kodak is just a very large company which can control the market, that is how it is.
Absolutely! I remember shooting color film in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s and a roll of Kodak Color 35mm film was 5.99. Back then we didn’t shoot random photos of mailboxes and gas stations, we made every frame count. Most of us in home use would shoot maybe 3 rolls a year. I worked as a professional and that was a different story, I would shoot 50 rolls a month.
I have heard it mentioned before and kind of agree that film companies are raising prices to weed folks out so that production is in line with demand. There seems to a demand for film that way out of sync with production capacity. I really would prefer to not pay 20 bucks or more a roll but it’s probably coming.
I just got lucky and got a roll of Fuji 200 for about $10
Fuji 200 is just Gold 200 repackaged now. I hate to tell ya but I think you actually overpaid by a dollar or more.
Yep that's the price they go for at Target. I'm glad it's available.
Kodak and Fujifilm aren’t as invested in film as Ilford. Ilford can’t afford to alienate their customers with exorbitant prices, and their black and white film is so good that I don’t even think of buying Kodak b/w film. I also enjoy shooting Shanghai GP3, available in 120 and even in 220.
I stocked up before the January 1st price increases. Got a 10 pack of Kodak Gold 200 in 135 and four five packs of Kodak Gold in 120. I still have a shit ton of expired 120 I need to shoot first so I should be good for 2025.
For me color photography moved almost completely to digital. I have some Portra and Ektar rolls I use here and there but I doubt it will be full time photography as it was earlier. On the other hand B&W is going to stay on film for me. Good to great film is cheap or very cheap if you buy bulk rolls. Same for chemistry, in pinch there are recepies from developers that go from caffenol through Rodinal and ending on VitC XTOL equivalents like Mytol so it can be even cheaper.
But color, no. I am not rich enough.
Well damn, this has been a wonderful hobby of mine, especially after my son was born. Might have to retire it and go digital again until prices drop.
I still have some sheets of Ilford 4X5 left, but I'm probably done with color film. I might shoot 120 B&W again in my medium format cameras and my roll film holder, but I doubt I'll be doing much 35mm. I remember getting Fuji Velvia for $6/roll when I started in the early 90's. Seeing color transparency film going for close to $30/roll is INSANE! I think the big film manufacturers are taking advantage of the trend, and in the process, they are gong to price out the very customer base that originally wanted to buy it.
The issue is that 6.00 roll in the 90’s is probably equivalent to at least 20.00 a roll now and don’t think film was ever cheap. I have not shot any slide film in a few years, it’s just too expensive for me, But I agree on the black and white, it’s what I mostly shoot and may eventually be the only film that I shoot when I’m out of color stocks.
I'm probably going to be way more picky with what I shoot and how I shoot. At the end of the day, we all need some form of recreational activity and I think in today's world, if you spend around $100 a month on a hobby, you are not being careless with your expenditure. I used to spend way more than I do now on going out for drinks and food. Getting older means your expenditure habits change and you end up moving money to different activities. Of course, if you are a young person with not much income, then you are going to find it really hard to shoot film. And that's where the problem lies for me. Film manufacturers need that next generation of film shooters so they can have a business in the years to come. I'm not sure the current prices are going to help that cause in the long run.
Fujifilm and lomography film stocks are still cheap especially b&w so all film prices aren’t rising
What about film prices since the original decline started, I guess 2002 or so? I think Kodak has complained that they dumped prices in order to get any film sold, in the initial panic. And that now they are just restoring reasonable pricing. Is there any merit to this? Ie looking at a roll of (for example) Portra 400 in 2002 vs today, and comparing that graph to inflation?
This made me curious. I used the waybackmachine to look at prices on B&H in 2008. 1 roll of HP5 (120): $3.45 vs $8.71. 1 roll of Ektar (135): $4.5 vs $14.99. I wonder if Kodak's argument would come even close to holding up, when compared to 2002 prices?
It’s quality over quantity for me, I mostly shoot Black and White 35mm and large format, and black and white and some color in medium format. Over all I shoot about 80% in black and white film. I developed all of my black and white and color film myself. With color developing, I save up my rolls and order the Cinestill kit for around 40.00 and just develop about 20 rolls over maybe a couple of weeks. So it’s not really that expensive. I probably buy one C-41 developing kit per year.
I'm preparing my photolab for a sizable reduction in c-41 developing demand for 2025, in the order of 10-25% from two years ago. If Kodak and Fuji price disposable cameras out of the market then a major chunk of the overall c-41 film demand will disappear. Or, if they keep prices of disposables relatively low, hobbyists might end up buying them for the film. Disposables have been the unheralded star of the demand for colour film. Labs that invested in developing equipment in 2022 and later will be screwed by reduced volume threatening the c-41 part of the business. Signs are c-41 will go back to being a niche rather than growth. B/W may be the hopeful part of the market/hobby because a local lab isn't a necessity. I have positive feelings about Harman (Ilford) when it comes to treating their market fairly. Much less so about Kodak and Fuji.
There's nothing wrong with shooting Fuji400(usa). 3 packs are $25, so a bit over $8 per roll. HP5 I think is still around $9. ColorPlus around $9 too. Those are my go-to films. Portra is nice but I don't really need that every time.
And when you look at historic prices at 3-4$ for a 24exp roll back in the early 90s then with inflation the current prices of 25$ for 3x 36exp file is actually not that bad.
I've never really liked the color science of modern Fuji. Yes, I can definitely fix that in lightroom, but that somewhat defeats one of the main purposes of me shooting film.
@@phallicusoblongus lucky for you fuji400 is just ultramax lol. It's USA made now and identical or almost identical to ultramax.
@@rjbiii I don't shoot ultramax
@@phallicusoblongus ok dude
damn and I was starting to get into film photography. Maybe I stay digital for now
Visiting Mexico, bought a roll of Kodak gold for 200 pesos or ~ $9 (usually found for 250 tho) might be worth ‘bulk’ importing if the option presents itself
I've wanted to shoot more of the portras and slide films, but I just can't justify it and continue using the "Fuji" 3 packs. And I am starting to appreciate more black and white, while I still prefer color, buying cheaper arista edu, fomapan and kentmere has been fun to shoot with.
I am still annoyed about Fuji going all in on instax at the expense of everything else. I get why Kodak is going after the respoolers, but it makes it no longer affordable for people to shoot e100 or vision 3
I remember the time when i bought 100 rolls of B&W film for 2,50€ each...
I'm sure there are a bunch of "film was never cheap" comments. These people need to do inflation calculations. Film was cheap. It's basic math. The information is out there. Do your own research.
Your parents said film was expensive and rationed it because they weren't photographers. They were just trying to capture memories.
My parents NEVER shot as much film as most of us do today, It was expensive back then aswell.
film was something for documentation and family not so much pretty pictures of gas stations and flowers. (my family atleast)
That being said I'll still shoot even with the prices, I'll just be much more selective on what I'm talking pictures of.
Yep back when I was younger in the 1980’s and 1990’s most people were shooting about 2-3 rolls of color film per year. In the 1990’s Kodak color 35mm film was about 5.99 a roll. It was always an expensive product. The labs used to charge about 5.00 for developing and prints in the 1990’s.
Yes, agree, when I was a kid in the 80's dad took the photos and it was maybe 5-8 rolls a year. When I did B/W for school we bulk loaded and did maybe a couple rolls a week. Film Photography was never something people did because it was affordable. It was always expensive and most people didn't do it. My dad was one of the few people that took photos in our neighborhood.
Hobbyist photographers DID absolutely exist back then, it just sounds like you didn't grow up with them. You are right though that film was always considered expensive.
@@eikonise i didn't say it did not exist, it's just not something my family did.
The answer is for Kodak to partner with Leica or another camera manufacturer and create near 1:1 film emulations digitally.
Film will not get more affordable ever unless demand goes up like 100x.
Film will always be for the enthusiast who is willing to pay for it.
In EU films are banned
I can't justify the cost. I have one roll left and I think it'll be my last. I have a ton of Instax Film I can use and will continue to use, but 35mm unless I develop and scan it myself is more expensive. At least where I live
It’s the game of demand and offer - basic economy. So we also have it in our hands at least as long as we #keepdigitalalive 😉
I absolutely love experimenting with weird cheap old bw film, way more likely to get results im looking for for CHEAP
This is the exact OPPOSITE of how the market is SUPPOSED to react to more people shooting MORE film - the increased demand SHOULD exert a downward pressure on film prices - not a ton, maybe, but priced should be going down as more film is produced to meet the rising demand for it. SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE PICTURE - but don't waste your time trying to figure it out. Logic ain't in it.
You can still get cheap chinese film
If there's money to be made new firms will enter the market.
Film isn’t expensive at all unless you’re just buying portra 800
It is. European prices are crazy! Even consumer films are costly. For example, a roll of Kodak Ultramax 400 costs €17.68 (approximately $19), Kodak Gold 200 is €19 (around $20.40), Kodak Pro Image is €16.50 (about $17.70), and pro-grade films are even pricier.
Its is in Australia. I just came across Fuji Xtra for 24 bucks a roll. Seriously? That crap was only 6 bucks a roll a decade ago.
At some time in the distant past I was a film shooter. I always had my Leica with me and loaded with film, and it was just the way I worked and enjoyed the experience. Then digital took over; the easy of use, no wait time to see the results, and although an initial investment in camera and computer the convenience of the digital system won out. But, I still have the film use process in my bones. I’ve got 50 some rolls of outdated, mostly B&W film, here to use, and a couple cameras (that need service, and I have to think about the value/cost of that!) to use it with and wondering how long it will take me to go through those rolls (probably years). It’s hard to get any motivation to shoot film now, and in the distant future when I finally use what I have and prices go up even more, I’m going to just be priced out and feel its not worthwhile. I admire all those that are dedicated to film use, and the whole ‘renaissance’ of film we hear about. But, then It just seems like a loosing battle unless you just really enjoy the whole film use process. (And, from what I see almost everyone has abandoned the darkroom for digital post-processing anyway)
With Silver prices over that 5 years going up 60+% vs 20ish% inflation. I'm not sure the comparison to the general inflation rate is relevant and that's just one input. Also, according to Kodak Alaris's most recent annual report they operated at a loss.
Ilford, Foma, etc. also use silver without exploding their pricing.
@@Nitidus My apologies, I see now that I didn't leave enough context, my point wasn't about Kodak or Fuji raising prices per se. It was about the fact that approximately 40% of the films tracked and 70% of the c-41 films are kodak manufactured causing kodaks financial insecurity to possibly skew Perception provided by the graph.
Microeconomics? After inflation the primary factor is supply and demand. Like you said production decreased when demand fell (when digital took off) and manufacturers compensated by downsizing their capacity and in some cases scrapping excess machinery(?). Now film is experiencing a significant come-back and those companies still around are in catch-up mode. Demand exceeds supply driving up prices. Companies like Kodak are reinvesting in their factories to increase capacity. It will take a while but prices will eventually stabilize at some level. Rather than be sad it's more expensive we should rejoice in the fact that film will be around for many years to come.
Agree! Price increases are due to supply/demand imbalance. I’m thrilled to hear demand is strong enough to justify large investments in manufacturing capacity. Also, high film prices might entice new entrants into film manufacturing which would provide more choices of film stocks. There is some silver lining, even though it’s painful to see some films north of $20/roll.
Very fortunate to have Candido in the UK selling de remjetted vision3 for the much more sane price of £11-15
Certainly worth it given how expensive the markup is for cinestill for 35mm!
Also fortunate for shops like analogue wonderland that ship near expiry (6 months mostly) film for some bargain prices, ive seen places selling stuff full price that has passed its expiry date (Yes it would be perfectly fine! but it just shows that its been sat for a long time and they clearly haven't been selling them!)
I dont think its possible for them to sell for less. We must be thankful that film is still made in 2024!.i shoot one roll per month. Considering the cheap price of film camera, its not a big problem with film+develop+scan charges
Late stage capitalism in all its glory.
Personally I can only deal with shooting b&w, developing at home. Thinking about bulk loading my rolls too. Fuck color prices.
Damn boi that accent is thicc, it took me almost the whole video to realize you mean PRICES and not PROCESS.
Thank you, I wasn’t aware