Kodak is CRUSHING Film Resellers
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- We have all enjoyed buying Kodak cinema film repackaged to shoot in our beloved 35mm film cameras over the past few years. Kodak has recently indicated that they will no longer sell cinema film to companies like Mr. Negative and Reflx Film to repackage and sell as still film. Why has Kodak decided to do this and what are the implications of this decision for regular old film photographers like you and me?
Excellent Kodak factory footage provided by Bill from studio 41. You can check out his channel here:
• Kodak: Behind the Scenes
Get your film here, and support my channel!
Kodak Gold - amzn.to/3vApug6
Kodak Ektachrome E100G - amzn.to/4amsCLi
Fuji 200 - amzn.to/3zlDKHF
HP5 - amzn.to/3OJXSc3
Portra 160 - amzn.to/3Q92Xfh
Portra 400 - amzn.to/3RkDJvi 
Развлечения
Kodak's management is 100% confident we're just gonna pay them more now. In reality most of us will simply shoot less film.
Or buy elsewhere
One word: Ilford.@@TimGreig
@@TimGreigyep the cheappppp Chinese film
@@TimGreig there is barely any elsewhere with film unfortunately
I have my favourite lines from a number of providers but I will ALWAYS champion Ilford for producing high quality products at low prices.
Cinestill trying to trademark an ISO rating and a white balance rating still makes no sense. It’s technical information
I haven't bought anything from them since.
It should have been the writing on the wall for what’s happening now
And it’s annoying that every American Film RUclipsrs are promoting it like there’s no other choice. The only ones that promote other companies are the Aussie RUclipsrs.
It's unfortunate that the trademark office doesn't have the resources to stop applications like this when they should and that it ends up needing to go to court
i'm having fun with reflexlab 800T, sometimes it got tiny light leaks, but considering the cost i will never go cinestill anyway.
Sounds like Kodak just keeps making the same bad decisions that destroyed their empire.
As always
We'll start seeing some improvements only when Millennials have fully set in and the old guys are gone. 5 years max, they can't push much further.
Episode 7: Try not to destroy you business [Again] [Challenge level: impossible]
@@adloram not so sure that millennials can handle any business from my observation they are cluster flub
Kodak need to step carefully, the photographic film market is a luxury, not a necessity. We don't need to buy film, we choose to buy film.
If I can buy a 36 Exposure roll of Vision 250D for £5.50 from a small reseller who has had to go through the time and effort of manually respooling it into recycled cassettes, then Kodak had better not try to sell me the same product in a Kodak box that they have mass produced with automation and industry scale buying power, for £10.00 a roll. If they undermine and gazump the Vision repack market, they had better bring a bit of value to the end user with it.
my hypothesis is that this unfortunate situation is a result of the bankruptcy and split of the Kodak company. Alaris and Eastman probably have a very clear contract between each other regarding film sales. Eastman *makes all the film* but sells only movie film. Alaris has exclusive rights on selling still-film (also made by Eastman). Alaris then notices these small companies repackaging Eastman movie-film as still-film. So Alaris complains to Eastman and demands Eastman put up some kind of "protection" so the Eastman movie films won't end up as still-films at some enterprising small company.
@@tambarskelfir I agree with your hypothesis.
I wish Kodak, in all it's facets, the very best of success, but I require a little quid pro quo if they expect me to participate in their success. If I'm not seeing some value, they're not seeing my money. It's a luxury, not a necessity.
It's a cup of coffee, get over it. Better a profitable Kodak than some sketchy secondary market. And they have competitors in Ilford & Fuji.
@
£10 to £20 for a Kodak colour film, plus £10 to £20 for processing and high res film scanning and/or prints, is not a cup of coffee.
If you shoot one film a month, this might be acceptable. If you are shooting a project, this soon adds up.
Ilford (Harman) are experimenting with colour film (Phoenix is version 1) and has 'hella' halation so is a love it or hate it option, and Fuji are getting Kodak to make their film.
“Cheeks slapped by the sales of digital photography.”
You do paint a picture with words.
A modern Shakespeare
Shame! Shame on Kodak! Instead of treating film resurgence as a sustainable business opportunity, they are milking it to death.
Thank Blackrock and the hedge fund vampires for that.
I'm confused? They are realizing that it's a business opportunity. They finally realized that they can sell their own products? It sucks that we won't be able to buy cinema films for lower prices, but from a business standpoint it's the logical answer.
@@merlinmendoza5177 It will potentially cause wider financial problems for them. People might stop shooting film altogether, or labs might close. A lot of people might just start exclusively shooting black and white film from other companies. Then there could be a significant drop in their chemical sales for developing film etc...I am not saying that any of that will definitely happen though. If they start selling the motion picture themselves at a similar cost themselves it wouldn't be so bad.
@@merlinmendoza5177no it's restricting the supply. Their the business of manufacturing. Selling as much as possible should be priority. Not WHO can.
@@CrashCarson14 getting as much profit as possible is the priority. They can sell half as much film with twice the margin and get the same profit, so why make 2x the film if you can make less film but same money?
Funny. This is how 35mm photography started ( With Barnack spooling 35mm cine film into a still canister ) and this is how it may end
good point!
this honestly sucks.. I wanted to get into bulk loading to shoot E100 regularly.. but now thats basically impossible.. i went into the hobby way too late 😅..
They may still have some bulk film for still photographers, that you can buy. Back in the day I used to bulk load a lot of 35mm film. I would buy high speed Ektachrome in both daylight and tungsten. The speed was ASA 160 and 125 for tungsten. This film was for still photographers not for motion picture photographers. The process for Ektachrome was E-4 for 35mm which I used to process all my Ektachrome. In the late 1970s the process was changed to E-6 for all formats of Ektachrome film. Negative color and black and white film you could get in bulk too. I shot both black and white and Ektachrome in bulk.
@ i contacted Kodaks sales department in germany right now. E100D is only available for motion picture projects, i can not purchase it for personal use/bulk loading..
Apparently since October they will not sell to individuals anymore.. Bulk loading will not be possible anymore with kodak film..
Sad. Back to black and white film for me
I luckily managed to buy a bulk roll of E100 and three rolls of Vision3 500T last year when I heard the first announcement that they'll stop selling these.
The film price frustration is a real thing but IMO the real issue is other companies aren’t creating their own products. Kodak is always going to have the upper hand when everyone is just repackaging their product. We need real options in the film market. Not just the same thing with a different label. If they only want to sell to Cinestill, I don’t see how anyone can find issue with that.
Support other company
Hartmann I don’t like it’s flim but I gonna support it
Orwo go for it it has nice unique tone
Lucky this will be game changer for market price
If Foma would release Fomacolor, they would be heroes
Unfortunately, Foma does not have the machinery to coat color films and the managment is not very open to new ideas.😕 Foma never actually manufactured color negatives, they only produced reversal films called Fomachrom under an ORWO license in the 1970s and 1980s. Products labeled Fomacolor were likely color photographic papers.
Soap for the cheap!
Haha. Fomacolor. They can’t even produce a proper bw film.
@@vhs_goldstar Their Fomapan 100 is fine, a bit contrasty but decent grain, looks fine in 120. I have processed it with primarily general purpose liquid developers (Ilfosol 3, Clayton F76+, Arista Premium).
@@eastbaykidd8574 maybe 100 is fine. My last 2 rolls of 400 and 2 rolls of 200 (both fresh) were full of artefacts and all kind of black dots, especially foma400. Right now I have a 100 in my RB67, we’ll see…
I still miss Kodachrome. Film selection is a shadow of what it once was.
The sun is hot and high, there's barely even a shadow left.
Sitting here looking at the 20+ film cameras on my shelves thinking "Boy, it sure would be nice if I could afford to put film in these" Thanks Kodak.
you can. just not color.
@@theincrediblepurp Right. and I do shoot a lot of B&W, but even B&W film is getting pricier.
@@eherrmann01 true. the way of the world i guess. :(
This is why I am shooting all my personal work on Ilford/Harmon. Unless my client wants Kodak film, they will not get any money from me.
This is so similar to Canon blocking the RF mount from 3rd parties. Greed will result in less sales in the long run. Creatives will find a way around or work with another medium.
A couple issues IMO is that 1) both Kodak & Westwood (Alaris new owner) are very opaque with information & 2) existing contracts & agreements likely influence most decisions. Clearly Westwood wouldn’t have purchased Alaris unless they felt they could make a return. The primary ways of doing this are a) raising prices, b) avoiding / limiting competition with Vision3 still use & c) making the asset so attractive that someone else buys it from them. Since the film side of Alaris is essentially just a distribution agreement there options are limited. We also have to assume that Kodak knows what they’re doing? Going forward I think we need to hope that Ilford stays & develops their color films, Lucky launches a color film & Fujifilm relaunches Asian production
@Alexius1Komnenos Yes, that's exactly what will happen. The prices will almost assuredly never come back down. Modern corporations only consider short-term profits in order to cover skyrocketing CEO packages, stock investors, and/or the profits for the shady investment firms...all to squeeze every dime in profit possible. Have you been conscious since 2020?
I want Fujifilms
@@elwrongo yeah, bring back C200 and Pro 400H.
@@PoeInTheDitchYou know nothing about economics. Or, arithmetic.
After that lawsuit stuff from CineStill they will never ever see a penny from me again with that disgusting business practice. I guess third party supplied film will still be cheaper anyway, so nothing to worry about.
I use Silbersalz35 film. That is Vision 3 35mm film without the remjet layer removed and developed by Silbersalz in ECN-2. I have not seen any announcement from Silbersalz yet. So I will keep my fingers crossed.
Oh damn, enshittification has reached Kodak. I wasn't expecting that.
The current class of CEOs is trained in doing only one thing: maximize stocks value. And that's what they'll do.
Kodak could very well sell these products at a lower price, since they could skip the middlemen; they'd make a huge profit, and make their market share grow exponentially by also drawing new people to film photography thanks to a lower price to entry barrier.
But will they?
Fomapan needs more love
Years ago already prices hikes in color films...I stopped color to focus on B&W...Tri-x price kept going up, I stopped using Kodak...the end product of this insane pricing policy is to sent their customers to their (less voracious) competitors (Ilford & the gang)...and they will never come back !
I've gone digital for color. Only shoot bnw analog. Sick of playin kodak games
Likewise. Wouldn't touch Kodak with a bargepole
Same here and just use Kentmere 100 and Tri-X. I don’t see any advantage to shooting color film, it’s expensive, developing costs even if you develop it yourself.
Indeed, digital is color, B&W film. Works for me.
Get a CCD Nikon still camera from 2006 (100 bucks for a D200) and the output will look quite like film.
@@TFUTM it will (kinda) look like film (with lots of imagination) :D
I live near their old headquarters, and I've despised Kodak for years. I switched to Ilford film years ago and I love it. Kodak can go pound sand and rocks.
Uh- didn't 35mm photography start out with motion picture film? Look up Oskar Barnak.
Hopefully cinestill takes a hit too. They have no shame.
HAPPY NEW YEAR! 🎉
Hope you have a great year ahead and continue to give us great photography content.
Happy New Year! I’m going to do my best! Thank you for hanging with me on this journey!
Honestly, this actually making me to fully move to Fomapan/Fully BnW. In my country, the color film is already expensive and Kodak V3 is relatively cheap.
Honestly if they releasing Vision3 roll format, hope they lower the price
The reason some people are buying vision 3 repackaged by their photo lab is because color film is too expensive, people want a cheaper alternative. Where I live a roll of repackaged vision 3 cost around 8 usd, cinestill cost 20 usd, what's the point of cinestill if is more expensive than most color film.
I think it's also just: more and more movies are starting to shoot on film again, and Kodak has been having difficulty keeping up. They're currently upgrading their factories to scale up the production, but it may not be enough in the near future
I'm very thankful Fujifilm still produces films! The president of the company himself said they're just producing the films to continue tradition. Being a Kapanese company they never forget their origins, traditions, and how they started. Film sales are less than 1% of total revenue of Fujifilm. They have no reason to continue making and selling films but they still do.
Arigatou gozaimasu Fujifilm. 🙇♂️
Just typing out my opinion here, this move by Kodak will start a price war. Because at the end of the day to them it’s about who can pump out the cheapest films for consumers. China is well aware of that and both Yes! And Lucky films are producing color negatives at a much lower cost.
Kodak is just greedy for the market and figured they can reap some extra money by monopolizing it. But they forgot that the very reason why people even started shooting cinema films was because of the cheap price tag that came with it.
This will just drive people to find the next cheap alternative. Casual shooters just want cheap and fun films to shoot.
I welcome a price war in my opinion, perhaps it will finally start to drive down the price of films for the rest of us consumers. Then we can finally say bye to the insane days of paying such over priced films just to get the film experience.
Love your videos man, thank you for making them.
Thank you for the kind words. You have no idea how much it means. This is a pretty thankless pursuit most of the time.
I think it's safe to assume that the reason is in fact the first thing "Overexposed" mentions... that is the contractual agreement between Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris. If the contract gives KA exclusive rights to market film from Eastman Kodak for the still photography market, then EK could be viewed as breeching that agreement if they sell other product to third parties that they know will be re-packaged and then used to cannibalize KA's still film sales. In all likelihood, as they are separate business/legal entities, contractually EK is bound to try and ensure that KA's contractual rights are protected. Thus, the new added scrutiny of EK cinema film stock sales that it probably due to AK's protesting that EK is knowingly enabling their competition.
Ever increasing price and scanning technology that hasnt progressed since the early 2000s is the reason why I left film photography and gone digital, have so much more time and money and now understand why film died
Wow! Great detailed dive into the world of Kodak film. 📸
I hope that other manufacturers take notice that there is money to be made in the stills film business and finally end Kodak’s monopoly
Tbh, this whole situation reframes the cinestill trademark situation for me, in their favour! I can definitely see IP clarity and separation as a part of Kodak’s agreement with Cinestill. If the trademark office confirmed that there was a market association of 800t with THEIR company rather than just “Cinema Film”? (which Kodak is the only manufacturer of) That shows reduced IP and reputation risk for Kodak in the deal if Cinestill ever mess up a batch.
Appreciate the analysis. I have been scooping up as much 500T and 250D as I can and will continue to do so. My concern now is becoming the ECN-2 chemicals. I guess I could make this stuff myself, but I'm a photographer, not a chemist. Honestly I just hope Kodak sees the opportunity to sell a product at an attractive price. I don't care who packages it. It's just not sustainable for me, a hobbyist, to be paying $20+ per roll of color film.
What people don’t get is that Cinestill made an investment in equipment to remove the Remjet. Your other repackers don’t do this hence it’s cheaper. Also, you can absolutely develop ECN 2 film in C41 if the remjet is removed. There are some difference is color and contrast but many people like the outcome.
Kodac has literally just renovated their whole film production outfit. I would hardly call that "laying down".
Two different kodaks. The one that produces the film doesn't have the rights to sell Kodak consumer film
What about non cinema film? I kinda fell in love with Kodak Aerocolor IV after shooting a roll of Elektra 100 and getting some from reflex lab next week-ish. I'm mean the price would probably increase anyway, but kodak wouldnt be stopping supply of still film, right? The only reason that it isnt officially publicly available is because its used in aerial photography which probably includes military uses.
FPP respools a lot of Kodak technical cinema film. My favorite is their FPP Low ISO Color. They are so niche that they probably won't be restricted, but who knows.
Well, maybe I'm the black sheep here. I remember back in the 1970s when some specialy photo labs were created to process respooled motion picture film that they would respool in cassetes for sale to photo hobbyists and told the photographers that they had to submit this film to them for processing because it needed a special process. You could not take this film to the drugstore and have them send it out for processing, It was not C-22. The processing machines would ruin everyone's film and the machine would have a mess to clean up because of the ramjet covering of the motion picture film I heard that these films did not give the same quality that still films had for still photographers. No professional would use cine film to shoot a job on. I never used respooled cine film and if I shoot film again I will never use it. I want to produce the best quality images I can, whether digital or film. Cine film was made for the motion picture photographer and for those special needs. It produces the highest quality images for motion picture photographers not still photographers. You hobbyists who shoot landscape why don't you shoot Ektar 100. That is pobably one of the highest quaity color negative films for still photographerrs.
If kodak film wasn't so insanely expensive we wouldn't be looking elsewhere. If it's going to get even MORE expensive, and the alternatives are going to go away, then it's most certainly the death of colour still shooting. Thanks heavens for B&W! 😮
In the end, a few cans simply fall off the truck and end up in the hands of people who reel them into rolls.
Film photography future is in black&white. Colour film and processing are turning too expensive to survive.
since I knew about the alaris existence I've been rooting for their fall. they do nothing and bring zero value to the table, I hope kodak re absorbs that part of their business.
I’m glad I’m a b&w guy and shoot color only on digital tbh.
I know Kodak is in the middle of upgrading their production lines, and one of the reasons for doing that was because of the increased demand for cinema film. So this may just be a temporary measure for them to make sure that their supplies last until they can restart their production of cinema film. Obviously just speculation though.
I own two sets of the one of the finest 120 6x9 cameras ever made, the Horseman 985 (with all lenses and accessories) and haven't used them in ten years but am completely reluctant to sell them. I loved that camera, so it's very interesting to see film has fans again. I just checked on Amazon and a wide variety of film is there to be had from Kodak, Ilford, Fuji, etc. So what is the problem? The prices are high in dollars but not much higher than adjusted for inflation dollars. So what is the problem, why would you even want cine film over Ektar, Gold, Ektachrome, HP5 etc.?
I think there is a strong possibility Kodak is planning on offering the cine films at some point. Possibly the play will be if you want Kodak branded film you will pay a few dollars more and cinestill will be the “budget” option? I am sure something is cooking at Kodak…. They did just go through a short shutdown to upgrade film making equipment if I am not mistaken?
I think Alaris's attitude is wrong. Vision film is cheaper because of the large packaging. (I don't think it's cheaper to produce ECN-2 material than C-41). The margin comes from the fact that the still film is packaged separately every 1.5 meters. I think a good solution would be if Alaris also started selling the still film in large rolls at an affordable price. Ultimately, they might sell more that way.
Happy that I shoot 90% black and white with Ilford and Rollei RPX and Adox, in the past also Kodak but tri x in bulk is nowadays more expensive than loose rolls. Really like their slidefilm but prices so high I nowadays shoot bw slide film (thanks adox 😉)
Corporate greed, pure and simple.
What I don't understand is this: if they wanted to crush film resellers, they could just sell Vision3 rolls themselves, they would be even able to sell it for a lower price compared to Cinestill, etc... I'm kind of hoping this is what they are actually planning to do, make the resellers disappear and then start selling Vision3 rolls to film photographers...
Oh, I paused the video too soon, you just said the same thing basically XD
It is also possible they just stopped selling it to resellers just because they had to pause film production and they are afraid of running out of Vision3 for actual movies.
I’ve been baffled the last few years that Kodak sells bulk movie film to small companies that respool it for the general public with a markup. As you suggest… I bet one of the things they were up to in November was gearing up to spool cine films for Alaris/consumers!
I was shooting exclusively film since 2017 until 2023.
I am glad that about 1.5 years ago, I switched almost completely to digital.
Now I can see as "an outsider" to all the Kodak bul****, without getting apprehensive anymore.
Film is just for fun now, to use the old cameras with BW or my frozen color stock.
This was the sort of corporate greed that directly lead to Kodak going bankrupt the first time around. Kodak was not thinking about having a product photographers wanted, instead they continued to push the film stocks that nobody wanted (because margins were high) and refused to invest in what customers were wanting, which was lower margin digital. Thus a huge corporation went broke as customers abandoned Kodak for Casio, Panasonic, and Sony.
This time they figure they have us over a barrel. All it does is create the incentive for competitors to look elsewhere, especially to factories in China and Europe. Heck, we may even see a return of made in Australia on packs of film, and I bet countries like India, Brazil, Malaysia, and Mexico may get tempted to revive film production if the demand is there.
BTW, I wonder if the Kodak factory closure to revamp production lines is part of this, and they are planning on packaging movie stock for stills at Eastman Kodak? Knowing Kodak, however, they will be planning on doubling or tripling prices. We need to see more competition. Buy more Phoenix, friends.
If this effects FPP, this'll be a nightmare.
Easily my favorite place to buy film. So many unusual choices and by far the best prices.
I prefer to pay double for a Harman Phoenix than give my money to Kodak anymore. Its about principles. Everyone should jump ship too, go with foma, go with ilford, hell, even Shanghai 100 from aliexpress instead of helping those Kodak bastards to survive. They've shown too many times how much they HATE their customers. Jump ship, boys, jump ship for good.
Again, just an opinion. I bet there is a contract between Eastman and CineStill that still needs to be honored. But when that expires, Cinestill might be outta business too.
ngl I am kind of happy they are doing this. I'm not partial to cinestill or anything but we don't need 50 different companies competing to the bottom to make the same products.
They should be taking all the business they can get, instead they’re being greedy and gatekeeping film stock, thinking they can dictate who should be “allowed” to buy their film, provided your project is worthy to them.
I see both sides here, on one end it sucks that smaller companies can’t sell their “own” film as easily anymore but on the other end, it’s probably good for Kodak and also the fact that raw ECN-2 could potentially get in the hands of someone who barely knows about film and could send it somewhere and have the processing chemicals destroyed. If I do see anything good come out of this, hopefully more movies are shot on film and hopefully we’d see more film options in the photography world of things
I only recently starting shooting Vision 3 film and I like it. This is the film with the REMJET layer still on it. I have used CineStill and frankly was underwhelmed with the results. The 10 rolls of 400D in 120 format were horrible. Terrible color casts and very muddy. I rather shoot the ECN2 versions of the film and send them to an ENC2 processor. As Kodak film goes up in price I will shoot less and look to people like Harmon and their products under their name and the Illford and Kentmere lines. Also I will make more use of my digital equipment again. As for CineStill and the 800T controversy I wonder if Kodak was more than a little miffed by that and how it was originally reported. Also how long is the deal with CineStill's and Kodak? Could Kodak stop selling to them also if the contract or deal expires or has expired.
Does this affect Aerocolor products?
I honestly can't see why Kodak did not distribute their own film themselves!!
the same reason why they invented the digital camera and then did nothing with it. they dummies.
I saw it coming a few weeks ago and purchased a lot of Kodak Portra film for half price by the end of the year
I recently wanted to place a large order from Kodak Alaris for our uni. We used to buy 16mm film and also ordered 35mm before. I was told that its not possible as they suspect we respool the rolls. We do but not for the purpose of resell but this was already enough to trigger the salesperson to refuse the order. Such a shame. from now on foma only. kodak deserves everything bad that happens to them tbh...
Some people need to stop overlooking Kodak and Fujifilm shortcomings and realize that both Kodak and Fujifilm are corporations and they make bad business decisions just like any other company as film isn’t their just main source of profit as they used to be. Film price increases are just a temporary solution to a larger problem of film stocks being short out of supply. Of course we should continue supporting the film industry but we should not just be supporting Kodak and Fujifilm but also smaller film companies like Agfa and Ferrani.
@overexposed Gonna make a video about that argus in the back there?
Someday soon I hope!
One day someone will invent a filmless camera and put a stop to this madness
Shameful greed!
Maybe Kodak-Alaris could proactively invest in these third party brands, acknowledging their rights to resell through a mutual agreement, Cinestill et al could then be able to slap a “Kodak film” sticker on their canisters, and charge an extra 10c which could go back to Kodak as a royalty thing.
I have no objection. When I buy s film, I want to know exactly what film I'm getting. I'll just keep buying harmon and washi, along with kodak branded film
This is what happens when shareholders want huge returns on their investment and that means unreasonable margins and practices.
I managed to get a few 100’ rolls of Vision3 when I heard these news.
Stopped supporting Cinestill after all that debacle. As someone that shot Cinestill 800t and Vision3 500T. These films do not look the same. Shooting with remjet vs shooting with remjet removed yield different results. I prefer the remjet, the halation is way more subtle vs Cinestill’s. Anyways it is what it is. Maybe it’ll change someday and Kodak will start selling Vision3 film again, who knows.
Sounds like a potential candidate for a class action lawsuit based upon anti-monopoly laws since kodak-a and the other companies, catlabs, et al, are essentialy providing the same service.
Cinestill is a crap due to remote layer removal. Better to repack yourself Kodak cinema film and find a good lab that process EC-N2.
Kodak Alaris should rebrand 500T Eastman film as the "new' Ektachrome Tungsten for example.
Kodak built their empire because the money was in film/processing. They may have made a dumb decision by ditching the world's first digital camera but their model bias couldn't see it any other way. (Which is why most camera only manufacturers struggle today and give us constant "upgrades")
Nevertheless, here we are again poised on a film resurgence and if Kodak had not had a fire sale they could have been a powerful force of support.
But no.
So I cant pick up a bulk reel anymore? Or does this affect the master rolls?
Just try getting flash-powder these days. I tell you, we true traditionalists are finding it harder and harder to maintain the old ways.
Older viewers may remember when Kodak was the Great Yellow Father and ruled the film industry with a heavy hand. One characteristic was that they didn't allow private labeling of their film -- there was no Kmart film that was really Kodak. Except. On occasion Congress would get a bug up their butts and start investigating Kodak's monopolistic practices. Sometimes Congress was serious enough that Kodak felt the need to cool off some of the heat and maybe a little bit for a while would allow third party labeling of their films. I still have some 35mm third-party labeled Tri-X in the freezer from the last time this happened, in the 1990s. I don't think there's any chance of that these days, though. And Kodak priced themselves out of my budget years ago. While I wish I could afford Tmax 400 in 4x5 and 5x7, that boat is long gone. Fortunately, there's Ilford and Foma.
Just my opinion; I bet the contract between Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris was written around the non ECN films but restricts Eastman from selling film used in still photography. Couple that with the recent acquisition by Kingswood Capital and the new management is enforcing the contract.
Let’s shoot more b&w and give our cash to Ilford! As long as there is no real competition in regards of colour film (I’m looking at you FujiFILM) Kodak will keep the price at the edge of what the average photographer is willing to pay.
Without these other films, there wouldn’t be a resurgence. Kodak, you’re self destructing.
So the moral of the story is once again "be careful what you wish for". We want new products from Kodak and we like the Vision range. So now we'll have the cine film from Kodak. In theory it should cost less than the other resellers but let's see. It's a crying shame that a whole swath of small businesses could be wiped out so quickly.
The Eastman Vision 3 films were NEVER designed to be sold to Joe Public. That Remjet coating is not so easy to remove as some say. At least not completely. CineStill finally got that right by having Eastman produce batches sans remjet coating. It also changed the ISO of the film to 800. The repackaged 3rd party sellers are selling a product which still has the remjet coating. It is not the same as CineStill. The native ISO is 500, and often it's less than perfectly spooled. In the old days we would call this 3rd party stuff "Grey Market Film" and it was sold as such in big NYC camera stores. It came with the warning that it was NOT guaranteed by Kodak, and that's why it was cheaper. If a 3rd party brand sells a bad roll guess who gets blamed? Kodak Alaris. If film still photography is going to survive Kodak/Alaris is the only company that can provide it in large high quality amounts. At least if you want to shoot color.
It makes little sense. Why would Kodak say no to more sales?
I think the best thing folks can do right now is support Harman Phoenix film. With them putting out a new emulsion and tweaking stuff over time. I think they're really receptive to their audience. I've usually found the cost to be cheaper or the same as UltraMax and Gold and if Kodak are after making things more expensive then we should try to be conscious of that before the price hikes. Be interested in other folks thoughts.
Problem is, at least for me, that Phoenix image quality is pretty shite.
It reminds me of Eastern Bloc color film from the Cold War.
This. We need Fuji to step back in but it seems like they have no interest.
Push Harman Phoenix, OrWo Wolfen and - my favourite of the "new" stocks - Adox Color Mission. The latter hasn't been in stock for months and is not really being produced at this time so I'm afraid it is all gone.
All these films are considerably worse than Kodak (and in many cases more expensive) but we need to support the development to have alternatives.
I try to buy Fuji whenever I get the chance though, because they are the only real competitor right now. (In quality, not in scale)
@@TheManFrayBentos Hmmm, I found it to be like Ektar but with red hues and nice halation to it. Maybe try it out more I know they keep working on the emulsion. Not putting down your opinion, some folks prefer different stocks.
@@robine5280 Maybe for me I view film as a unique place to gamble with images but I like that those stocks aren't perfect anyway. If I wanted perfect I'd pay out the ass for Portra or Ektar. I love the quirks as that for me is what makes film fun. Though I have to say OrWo Wolfen has one of the best photos I took this year on it. Might be tied with Phoenix.
I wonder if Cinestill is going to get hammered too. Doesn’t make much sense that Kodak would give them preferential treatment.
ive gotten into film very recently but kodak and fuji 35mm films are getting ridiculously expensive. so naturally i ventured into 500t and 250d and those vision 3 gave me some hope into shoot film. but with this, i think im done lol. it is just too expensive to shoot film photography and im better off shooting digital. kodak fk themselves over years ago and im not surprised if they fk up the film comeback era too. i really hope fuji come up with cheaper alternatives and fk kodak up once and for all.
Doesn't affect me personally. I'll still buy Kodak Gold or Portra (prefer 120 to 35mm nowadays) max 2 rolls/month. Won't break my wallet. I know some younger folks (typically high school/undergrad students) will complain "man... let's stick to BW only"
Your accent is exceptional, sir.
Thanks. I caint help it.
20 years ago, I always bought Kodak Vision 16mm film, as I had a couple of Arri cameras that I wanted to experiment with. I didn't know that Kodak were now restricting use of their cine film products. How pointless is that?
In California they just banned analogue photograpy
Great video, I would think cinestill has something to do with this. People still unwittingly buy there repacked film at crazy prices. Maybe this creates an opening for a new manufacturer to topple Kodak’s monopoly and reduce quality film cost, maybe wishful thinking
9:50…totally agree . This argument makes sense
Ilford is trying with Ilfordcolor wink wink Harmon Pheonix is trying....and Lomography too with Metropolis crashing down....they just need to improve...thats all
but yeah im looking for Kodaks 800T variety but price wise im curious how much it would cost?
If one roll of Kodaks in factory Cinestill 800T same product arrives on shelves for like 10-12$ per roll...the masses are gonna shift towards that and the market that makes the 800T variant will be out of business for sure
What is the status of Film Ferrania?
Video on this topic coming next week. Shhhhhh
Back in the 60s, 70s and 80s we had Tri-X, Plus X, or Panatomic-X for BW film. That's it. (My shop didn't even carry Ilford until a few years later.) And of course a few color chrome and print films. We just shot these films with little expectation of new films, nor did we care. The cost of developing new emulsions by Kodak will simply be passed on to the consumer and prices are already in the stratosphere. Nobody needs a new film stock. I don't get it. It won't make your photographs better. You already have what you need. Go take pictures.
I feel that Alaris is the biggest cause of a lot of Kodak's current problems. They don't add value to Eastman's product.
Just makes no sense to me, even from a profit perspective. Unless they just start selling it as still film officially?