SHORTIE: Narwhal vs Asvine - Same Pens?
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- Опубликовано: 15 ноя 2022
- When I did my review of the Asvine P20, I thought the pen was remarkably similar to the Narwhal (now Nahvalur) Schuylkill. Did some parts swapping between the two pens as well as the TWSBI Eco and discovered they might all have a piston from the same place.
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Concerto No. 1 in E major, Op. 8, RV 269, "Spring" (La primavera)
Allegro (in E major) by Antonio Vivaldi, in HD quality!
- Classical music piece performed by: John Harrison - Violin / Robert Turizziani - Conductor / Wichita State University Chamber Players
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CAUTION: The following video has an unusually high VHQ (video humor quotient). Viewers are advised to refrain from consuming carbonated beverages while watching. Any liquid spewing out of your nose is YOUR responsibility. 
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There’s two main manufacturers of Chinese pens, Shanghai Jingdian and Shanghai Junlai. Basically 90% of the Chinese pens we see are from them. Junlai is responsible for the 6XX Series Wing Sung pens, among others. Jingdian is responsible for Moonman, PenBBS, Delike among others. I’m certainly not familiar enough with the behind the scenes production to give a comprehensive overview of the Chinese fountain pen industry, but this is what I’ve gathered from Chinese sources so far.
Interesting. I've never seen this information before. Do you know who makes other brands, such as HongDian, Hero, Jinhao, Kaigelu etc?
I think it comes down to two main companies; Hero and Jinhao. Wing Sung (both of them) are owned by Hero.
@@InkquiringMinds both of them? There are 2 Wing Sung companies?
@@zathrasnotzathras655 Yes. It is complicated. There are two Wing Sungs. The Wing Sung that makes the student level 3000 series of pens and the Wing Sung that makes the 600 level pens. Separate companies, same name, both owned by Hero.
@@InkquiringMinds thanks Doug.
Brilliant. I asked about nib/feed compatibility on your P20 review video, but you just answered my question. I'm just in the process buying a Narwhal stub nib/feed for my Asvine p20. Again, simply brilliant.
Glad I could help!
What would we do without you, Chris, and Doodlebud taking things apart to show all of us?? haha I just saw Leonardo showing their lever filler off on Instagram. Looks awesome Doug!!
Thank you so much, William!
@@InkquiringMinds We all appreciate you guys for sure!
I can't attest to a "Chris" or a "Doodlebud," but without Inkquiring Minds, my Saturday morning cup of coffee and slice of my home-made cinnamon bundt cake would be boring.
@@user-br3sl9go3b Doodlebud and Chrisrap52 have a bunch of videos about fountain pens as well. Chris does a lot of vintage stuff and some newer cheaper pens like Jinhao and Hongdian ect. He has videos restoring vintage pens as well. Doodlebud has some stuff like that as well. Doodlebud recently had a video where he restored an 80's Montblanc for ones of his wives friends because her dad gave it to her. Check them out if you ever crave for more pen videos along with Dougs!
@@williamcatalano1762 I'm going to check them out. Thanks (maybe not, I'm addicted already! I need to get help at some Fountain Pen Anonymous Web site).
One more reason to follow Doug! I continue to love your honest comparisons. Keep it up!
I appreciate that!
Love this video. Power to consumer knowledge. Thank you for checking and for sharing your results.
Glad it was helpful!
As always great job. Thank you 👍
Thank you too!
You are a light in the darkness, Doug! Cheers
Adding to the theory that all pens made in China are made by the same company.
😂
All (almost) fountain pen nibs outside of China are made by Jowo and Bock.
@Fire P I agree 100% with what you say. Nothing wrong with a company selling fountain pens with Jowo or Bock nibs. My point is only that we who buy them are paying more than a fraction of the cost strictly and solely for 5 1/2 inches of material, i.e., the cap and the barrel.
Now THAT's an eye-opener! Thanks very much, Doug.
BTW a parcel arrived today from my brother: 22 Chinese pens, all under $10. What a hoot. Cheers from 'Terror Australis'.
Woohoo! Merry Early Christmas!
Thanks Doug
Very interesting comparsion Doug. This gives credence to the belief that, in reality, most of the Chinese pen brands originate from only a few OEMs.
Thank you for this video. I love my Twsbi pens but if these pens are pretty much the same I might go for the more economically smart choice, all things being considered. Appreciate you!
Glad it was helpful!
Interesting comparison, Doug. I have the same models and even resin. Yes, they are very similar and probably use the same OEM for their parts. Perhaps as Asvine was (or maybe still is) a parts OEM, it could be the reason for the shared parts.
Maybe Nahvalur shares resin with Asvine.
Maybe Wing Sung is also involved.
Maybe Nahvalur makes their nibs and that is the only thing they make.
It can get very complicated with these pens.
Right on. It is all very hush hush and indecipherable but I think the main players are Hero and Jinhao (Wing Sung - both of them - is owned by Hero).
Informative. Thank you. General Motors used to make Cadillac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Chevrolet aimed at different price points in the market. Same lug nuts fit them all. The distinction was in the hub caps (wheel covers). You do remember what 'baby moon's look like don't you?
I know of the baby moons (I made car models when I was a kid).
I should have read your remarks before I posted mine. All I added is the fact that this is still done by manufacturers in the USA and Asia.
Thanks for looking under the hood , don’ have narwhal, but do have 2 asvine p-20s love them , price is great made one into a flex pen
If you looked under the hood of different brands of automobiles back in the days of Detroit's dominance, you would find the exactly same engines.
I really like both brands, so I am not shocked to see that they might be "cousins". They are very nice pens IMO.
More like twins.
Interesting!
Good catch.
Thank you so much, Stefan!
Haha! I am not surprised that TWSBIs seem to use the same ones as well.
Looks like it!
Wow. Interesting ❤
I love being 5 hours ahead of you! So today, a courier arrived bearing gifts.......gold, frankinsence......hang on, i'm six weeks early! No, he came with a Laban Mento in Lavender swirl. It is a big pen, first blush says a little bigger than a MB149, streamlined cigar/blunt torpedo. The nib is like wiping your a** with silk! (I hope you've seen the matrix!) the chatoyance is swirly rather than shimmery but gorgeous and a bit like caressing your eyes with silk. Cap sort of posts but you could probably pole vault across one of the great lakes with it. Anyhoo, just thought i'd let you know.
Wow. Nice big pen you can wipe your a** with! Good to know! I've seen Matt's review of them and have been interested.
I recently acquired a Narwhal skulykill and didn't like the nib. Which one do you recommend I change to?
The Kaigelu long blades are awesome!
Very unique shortie. Great idea. I wonder how many possibilities of this sameness exist in the pen world? Could be astronomical!!! 🤪! 👍👍👍+😎
Good question! I just swapped the parts on the Nahvalur Original Plus vacuum filler with the Asinve V169 vacuum filler and they are a perfect match. Same parts.
@@InkquiringMinds Awesome. I really like your diagnostic videos. You and Doodlebud are the best in showing us this kind of information. Thanks 🙏!
Now I'm really curious. Are the Schuylkill/P20 nibs interchangeable with the "Narwhal Original" models? This might be a way to put an Asvine EF nib into one of my Narwhal Peter Pens!
I just put the Asvine P20 nib unit into the Nahvalur Original + and it is a perfect fit.
Thanks for your excellent quick review. You didn't mention the cost of each respective pen. If these are the same pens, why would one spend $60 for the Narwhal when the Asvine goes for $30?
Because the Nahvalur is made in Taiwan by a company based in the USA and the Asvine is Chinese.
So, between pens like the Hondian, Asvine, Narwhal Schuylkill, even the TWSBI by the looks of things, is there much, or any, difference overall? Are you getting the same quality components, fit, finish, just different "packaging"?
The quality of Hongdian, and Narwhal is great. TWSBI not so much.
Good one, the resin looks so similar. Pens are becoming like cars. They all use similar
brand parts engine parts
👍
Yes, you are right
That's a fact, Wendy Holiday.
Wow, eye-opening! I was going to get a second Nahvalur Voyage, but now I can't get the thought of way overpaying out of my head. Unless we're talking gold, I don't think that an in-house steel nib creates that much of a cost difference. Especially if everything else is made in China.
I've just bought a Narwhal Stub nib/feed for my Asvine P20. This is retail from Narwhal so likely top dollar and it was $19. So if you figure the rest of the pen as about the same price, you should be paying no more $30-$40 including the narwhal nib/feed. Of course, vendors can charge what they like, but $30-ish for an Asvine P20 with one of Asvine nibs seems like a good deal for an excellent pen.
Wooooooowww. So I got a TWSBI and wasn't impressed. Cracked after a month. I was thinking about getting a Nahvalur, but this seems like a good argument to go with Asvine P20 instead at half the price... I'm hoping those don't have cracking issues.
I have some skepticism towards other higher end pens, too...
My P20 has been flawless.
@@InkquiringMindsAwesome! Has the Narwhal been equally reliable? I've heard the Asvine "feels" lower quality, but this video sort of puts that subjective bias to rest.
@@remyvegamedia The Asvine is every bit the quality of the Narwhal. If anything, my Narwhal Schuylkill feels less substantial than my P20.
@@InkquiringMinds I really appreciate your input on this!
Ah, a question I would not thought to ask. I suspect that even with the things that do work, there may be a difference in nib and/or feed. I will likely try to change my nib in the Asvine. My Asvine p20 has some real flow/nib issues; however, I have not yet changed the ink. It was a first time for usage of an ink that has some grey & black properties that somewhat matched the acrylic. Before I get judgmental, it could very well be a pen that works perfectly with an ink that includes more flow additives. (Do we need someone to sell an additive, say “Add two drops of this “Miracle Flow’ and get the results of your dreams!” You and your son, or you and Chris Rap could probably come up with such a product, or you would, at the very least, come up with a better advertising line! :)
Yeah. It is called "White Lightning" and just a tiny drop is all you need. Try soaking the nib and feed overnight in water with a drop of dish soap (like Dawn), then rinse thoroughly and wrap in a paper towel overnight. Then re-ink the pen and see if it improves.
IT WORKED LIKE MAGIC. I used a Diamine ink, and it did fantastically well!
@@keithwhitney7491 Wonderful!
Depth. Of No Surprise. I wonder if the Nahvalur Original Plus Vac mechanism is compatible with the Asvine V169 (cosmetics aside)?
I’m working on that today.
@@InkquiringMinds Great minds and all that! 😆
I just swapped the mechanisms between the Asvine V169 and the Nahvalu Original + and they fit like a glove. Same parts.
Hi Doug, 2 questions where can I find a 699 wrench. I also made the imprudent mistake of unscrewing the Asvine and guess what the piston came loose. Any ideas on how to reattach it? Sorry for such a lengthy comment.
You mean the silicone piston ring came off? You can get the wrench on AliExpress. Look for wing sung tool or yong sheng tool.
Thank you
This could be useful in the future, when one of these is no longer made, and some spare parts are needed.
So, fraternal twins!!
Another TWSBI saga 😂
I know right??
Automobile manufacturers in the US and Asia do this -- and in past years GM, et al, did it even more boldly. The models are called "twinned vehicles.'" They are exactly alike and sold under different brands. Aside from the MSRP, one twin auto might lose its value by 20% or 30% vs. its identical twin. There is no reason other than marketing identity. Fountain pens using the same business end -- a JoWo or Bock nib and plastic feed -- and the same filling system are following the same approach. We pay for body styling (in the case of fountain pens about 5 1/2 inches of material) and the marquee.
Excellent! Well said, William!
I especially am thrilled when they put out the exact same pen in a different color and call it a limited edition for twice the money.
@@donbrownist Can you blame them if 100 or some other historic number associated with their company are purchased? I can be amazed and kind of upset, but I can't and don't blame them for bilking us. We pen addicts are easy marks but we also have free will.🥳
Eco, Asvine, Narwhal? Which is the most comfortable to write with? I only have the Eco and I can write hours with it-Now I am super curious.
The Asvine and the Narwhal Schuylkill are pretty much the same in the hand. They are both better than the Eco.
@@InkquiringMinds - Thanks! I will have to try them out! Great info.
So what do you get in the end ? A NARVINE.
LMAO! Or an ASSWHAL!
What about Jinhao? Same manufacturers?
It is hard to tell but I think Jinhao is one of the main two OEM pen manufacturers in China. The other is Hero. These are just educated guesses!
Have you noticed a pattern here? Majohn 600 looking remarkably similar to the new look Kaigelu 316, Lorelei pens apeing the penbbs 308/480 line, it's almost as if market 'saturation' in one brand leads to a new brand/line being sold at a lower cost than the original but the price creeps up over time until market saturation leading to....... I'm actually ok with that as new colours seem to come out all the time and i have enough pens for writing now.........that's not what collecting is about. The manufacturers are being canny but if you carry on buying pens you like the look of and which are of 'merchantable quality', nobody's losing out. It just means wormholeing on the chinese websites looking through the various offerings. The ultimate window shopping? Who here doesn't spend time most days trawling the web to see what's new?
The Majohn/Moonman M600 has been around for a couple of years and is a Parker Duofold Centennial clone. There have been many. Kaigelu's first 316 (I have three) pre-dates the M600 buy a few months but is a really heavy, brass pen. Lorelei and Penbbs have been at war for a while because (I believe) Lorelei's owner is the OEM manufacturer of Penbbs pen designs and they took the design of the 308 which angered Penbbs no small amount. A lot of these "new" pen brands are just sub brands of the same companies; Hero and Jinhao.
Haha! Great exposé video of the pen world hypocrisy! You rock, Doug!
Thank you so much, Jeff!
It isn't hypocrisy and it isn't unique in the pen world. Maybe it is pretense. I'm not even sure that is the correct word. But I (think I) agree with your inference. It is a borderline scam, catering to the consumers' (mine included) vulnerabilities.
Well maybe “hypocrisy” is not the best description either, but it is comical (to me at least) when one (mostly Asian) pen company accuses another of copying or infringement on IP, and they’re all using the same OEM’s and/or designs! You’re absolutely right about it not being confined to only the pen world.
@@jeffroberts532 My thumbs up for your remark. However, comical (hahhah, again I challenge your choice of word) is not what I would call it. No, I am not going to volunteer a word I would prefer. 👿
Watching you gets to be expensive!😂
LOL
If you had to buy one, which would you get?
Asvine!
@@InkquiringMinds thanks! I'll buy Asvine. And I subscribed.
@@mathrix3282 Thank you so much!
Isn't this a no-shave month?
You can grow a mustache or if you already have one, you can grow a beard. And this video was shot in October.
This makes me want a refund for my nahvalurs and Twsbis…
Look I bought a Conklin All American (great fit in the hand, lousy writer - dries up and skips/stutters, have had 3 yes three, medium nib feeds under warranty and they all perform the same) that I paid $150 in my money that Doug is pretty sure is made by Jinhao (it does have a JOWO nib, but that's the crappy part). I am firmly in the Asvine, Jinhao, Hongdian, Win Sung camp now and could not be happier.
The notion of intellectual property does not exist in China. Their laws and their societal attitudes lead them to make anything that the rest of the world will buy, including things from other companies. When I was earning my mech engr degree, there was a prospecting doctoral candidate from China who submitted phoney credentials to one of my profs. He made a point of telling us that Chinese applicants get about double the scrutiny than any other international prospect applying to the grad school for this very reason.
If the Chinese do not care about proper engineering credentials, they certainly will have no qualms about knocking off pen manufacturers, or share designs of pens internally.
😇🩵🙏🙌
Thank you, @sushanart!