How Efficient Is Pogacar? | Tour de France 2024 Stage 6 | JB2
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- Johan and JB get into the Philipsen relegation and show that the officiating is very inconsistent. Johan also uncovers some data comparing riders that shows how amazingly efficient Tadej Pogacar is because he is a protected rider, but more because of his level of fitness compared to others.
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Deviation rule says you deviate and endanger another rider. Cav did deviate but checked and didn’t endanger anyone. Jasper habitually deviates AND endangers others. This is not apples to apples
100% - well said.
True! Jasper always tries to close opposition and he got away with that to many times. I think is good for him to get relegated as a warning - don't do that!
Cav elbowed a few people on his way - and he got away with bad behavior in sprints for years!! So did Jasper.. they both deviate and just push their competition out of their way..
Ah yes. Cav never did or does anything to endanger other riders in the sprints.
Come on man, all sprinters do that. That doesn't make it right but don't just point a finger at mister Flipse. Sir Missile is just the same.
Well said! The rule clearly has 2 conditions for it to apply and JB is flat out wrong in the podcast on this.
Does Cav trigger both Conditions?
He deviates 100%. Imo he does not endanger someone BY/WHILE deviating, and the fight for other people's wheel is very much a normal part of sprinting and super rarely punished.
Does Jasper trigger both Conditions?
He 100% endangers Wout (if he doesnt break he is definitely in the barriers). He does so by deviating (a little). So its not unfair to argue he satisfies the rule's conditions. And looking at last year's tour, I personally hope that the TdF just applies a more strict interpretation of the rule throughout the whole race (a little bit like refs in football are known to be lax or strict).
Whether they stay consistent remains to be seen but if they do then this relegation is 200% justified :)
And past sprint behavior is a strawman argument guys, ofc you'll find dangerous shit from any sprinter from the past.
johan is the only real expert on youtube. the move without him is a clown show where lance does not let anyone finish his sentence but himself. thank you for this insights go on JB2
Johan is awesome. He brings information/details than no other "cycling specialist" is capable to analyze.
Johan what are you smoking? In a sprint, deviating isnt the issue. Its deviating to impeded or bring danger to another rider is THE PROBLEM. Stop using Cavendish' sprint adjustment as an example of deviation when the move he made in no way caused danger or IMPEDE anyone. Handlebars only come into play if the riders result in a wreck. Wout wouldve came out on the wrong end because he was behind (HOWEVER), it still brings into question the decision making of the rider with advantaged handlebars. The UCI needed to step in and set SOME STANDARDS because Jasper is a disaster.
I think yesterday Philipsen should have been disqualified also, hopefully retrospectively. Cav was ahead by a bike lenght or more, he could have zigzaged if he wish so, and he was smart enough that Philipsen would slipstream him and dropped him in the firing line intentionally or instinctively. Cav made sure and looked back if he is endangering anyone or himself before he deviated, Philipsen went after Cav without care for himself or anyone on his way.
This is so flawed. Pogy isn’t burning 400 calories per hour. That is way too low.
It's the motor.
Totaly could be. If his current ftp is so high this stage could have been for him ride with IF 0.3 ... easy recover ride
doesn't the UCI rule state that the issue is deviation after launching the sprint + endangering another rider ? Deviation alone is NOT against UCI rules. Cav checked left before moving, and so the second part of the rule wasn't broken, so no reason for dq/relegation. The same can't be said about Philipsen today, or on many occasions. For once, the UCI actually followed their own rules in these cases.
That is the way I understand it, it needs to be a combination of. Deviate + endanger another rider.
It's much better than the move podcast with Lance, George and JB ,because the move has turned to comercial, it's all about the the advertising paying! In this one we can listen to their opinions without stopping all the time!
Totally agree! Have stopped listening to The Move because it’s one long commercial. If you do listen, skip the first 8.5minutes to save you listening to a laundry list of ads/commercials. Then fast forward 2-3 minutes each a few times during
helps pay for the additional shows and coverage we are adding. Every penny has been going back into growth. Just saying.
@@weduwe get that 👍… but it’s like a third (15 min of 45 min).
🍷ers
It takes less than 5 second to skip past them on RUclips and it's free.
Johann, in regards to Mark's stage 5 win, you missed that mark looked left before going left. Jasper did not when he followed. Jasper deserved to be relegated today since he was warned in stage 5 and then did impead Wout. Wout had to lift or he would have gone into the barriers, which means Jasper impeded.
Miraculously, the sprint commisaires got the call correct on stage 5 and on stage 6. WvA was dangerously impeded by JP's line deviation and Cav's deviation impeded no one. What if Cav was 10 bike lengths ahead instead of 3 - still a deviation? Of course not.
This is THE SHOW on this channel. Love it
Hi JB's
Really enjoying this show and the Move. I just wanted to clarify the rule regarding lane deviation during a sprint. The rule is printed as follows:
Riders shall be strictly forbidden to deviate from the lane they selected when launching into the sprint and, in so doing, endangering others.
The key point is "endangering others". Pedersen cut off Van Aert by squeezing him against the barrier causing Van Aert to stop pedaling. The day before Cavendish had at least a bike length on the other riders and did not endanger them.
Good information, gentleman. Thank you for the analysis. Today's stage 6 race, 139km of flat terrain and nobody to chase down must have been like a stroll in the park for Tadej.
if im not mistaken. the rules suggest that you cannot deviate from your line IF you are going to endangered someone.
Another great bike riding lesson Johan and interesting input by JB.
Great inside colour gents, thanks so much!
Ayuso shouldn't have been brought to the Tour in the first place. He will sink Pogačar. Majka, McNulty or even Del Toro would have been better choices. Once more, a bad management decision at UAE.
Ayuso needs to find a team for himself. Otherwise, he'll waste his talent.
Majka has Giro in his legs. McNulty wants to ride Olympics fresh because he is in his top form. It was Ayuso himself who wanted to go to TdF. He probably wanted a feel of it for the furure.
I think this just means that they are uploading their data differently. The strava calorie estimate can work a few different ways and can be wildly inaccurate. This data is useless.
One caveat to this of course is how those calorie estimates are generated. I assume based on average heart rate over time and some factor of their height/weight/age. One thing to note on top of that is that every brand of heart rate monitor has a different algorithm calculating AVG HR so it may be a bit of an apples or oranges comparison.
I'd assume they come from their Power Meters which are very accurate (1-3%) compared to HRM and Strava's algorithms. So assuming that they are probably accurate.
I just saw they never share power data so you're right in calling out the accuracy of these counts.
@@Jeromin power data is also estimated based on speed, inserted weights, etc... so its an estimate of an estimate... it's most likely very much off
@@Jeromin ya I ride without a power meter, just a heart rate monitor in a Garmin watch and I get calorie estimates on Strava. If I wear two identical model Garmin watches I get some pretty different heart rate info, so it’s a very loose estimate.
I’m sure there is some validity to the argument that Pogacar is using far fewer calories, but I’d sure hope so as a leader vs a powerhouse domestique
The view from above clarifies- relegation. In stage 5 Cav did know he was clear--Not the same!
I think everybody overreacted to what happened with Ayuso the other day. He's a talented, intelligent young guy who wants to win races. If anything, I think the fault likes with UAE. They buy up all these riders at very young ages who rightfully want to and can win races for themselves. UAE doesn't plan well for the overall structure of the team.
UCI Rule 2.3.036 states that riders shall be strictly forbidden to deviate from the lane they selected when launching into the sprint AND, in so doing, endangering others.
It's reasonable to argue if WvA did not brake Philipsen would have put him into the barriers. I do agree though, the UCI doesn't apply this rule consistently which causes confusion on all fronts
Hi Johan, in this cycling era we all have to stick with the truth and at least let's say it out also. The same thing happened last year tour de France 2023 between Wout Van Aert and Jasper Philipsen where Van Aert was squeezed by the barrier and he had to completely stopped pedaling. Now, there's a difference between deviating to a side where no body is like what Mark did yesterday and deviating to a side where someone is already occupied in the case of Jasper and Van Aert. Today, I'm with the UCI decision. I'm sure Jasper will not be happy either if this situation occurs to him. Please let's be just to everyone in cycling world today.
Ibrahim
Based on the calories I counted Pogacar’s average power to be around 116W… Seems a little sketchy
it's an estimate... none of the riders shared their power data with strava
Not realistic. Perhaps one was on power data, the other an estimate based on HR.
I don't believe those calorie estimates for Pogacar.
I’m a 43 year old woman and burn more calories on my 40 mile tempo rides. Seems off to me.
@@zikaperic2133 Bernal do
Great TT prediction JB👌
i’m sorry you guys are on your own about jasper. the big difference between jasper and mark manouver was: wout had to break not to crash. because he had started jumping and was faster that that moment . mark: he took a quick look, he saw there was space and he was too fast so no one had to break in order not to crash so he didn’t block anyone. anyone with eues could see jasper only moved to the right to block wout otherwise there was no resin for it/ nice try. i think you guys are just fans and friends with that team so you like to defend him
Thank y’all for giving me a place to learn. The other guys just rib each other and sell things. Sheesh.
The "selling" pays for this show, too. Why should they provide content for free?
I love this video
i don't understand how Jonas will get stronger in the race. this raises a RED FLAG. the tour is 3 weeks long. every day it drains a riders strength. how will Jonas get stronger when everyone else is getting weaker with fatigue.
You can build fitness if you recover from day to day; he’s constantly protected and doing less work than his teammates. That aside, - he basically gets less bad, relatively speaking, then everyone else
Visma Lab.
Basically its not that he is getting stronger but everyone is getting weaker while he is staying same so he it looks like he is stronger. You could se it in last two TdF where Tadej wasted too much energy in first two weeks and he got little weaker in week 3 while Jonas did not which is why he was stronger...
pogis data said 19 degrees while the other 2 had 23. Whats up with that? thats quite a diference, a bit sketchy if u ask me
Great show. I think Johan is wrong about Cav moving over - reason being, when Cav moved across, he was not impeding any other rider. He was about two bike lengths infront of those riders behind him. When Phillipsen moved across Van Aert, he was marginally ahead of him - causing Van Aert to sit up. That's the big and important difference IMO. PS. great to see Johan looking leaner!!
Wow este señor qué bárbaro! Habla perfecto Español y perfecto Inglés ❤
It was Jay Vine, UAE teammate, who talked about kilojoules on Pogacar and Jumbo on tour.
where can i see this?
@@ds6914Roadman podcast clips
@@NosyNorseman which clip?
:)
@@ds6914 jay vine on roadman couple months ago
@@ds6914 jay vine reveals how jonas broke pogi
Riding protected by teamates breaking headwinds for him could be the reason.
Agree with Johan that the UCI is not consistent, and seem to have penalised Jasper almost retrospectively, however I believe that CAV did indeed look left prior to swinging over to the left, checking to see they no one was there.
Johan gotta back the Belgian. Cav didn't impede and took an open line. Jesper impeded blindly and does every race.
Simple.
I hope & 🙏🏼 Ayuso doesn't turn out to be a Trojan Horse for Tadej....
Big mountains to come no time for Ego's. 👍🏻🚵🏽♀️🇨🇵
🇺🇸💯💥
Is the calories a heart monitor error? Versus something like mass focus on draft positioning, using bottles/ice to keep cool and drop caloric sweating, or…
Tomorrow feels like a huge day. I think we're going to see some fireworks
Johann please. Cav looked before he went to the left. Exactly that’s why he moved… Jasper is trouble all the way.
great stuff as always - I thought JP did impede Wout but this all happening at sprint speed, CAV freelancing reminded me of Robbie M freelancing to his sprint wins, well done CAV - JP you need to do a bit better, well done Groenewegen
Be great to see Johans calorie theory today!
Pogi/Remco with no other riders around them both eating wind over 25km and likely a very similar time. Pogacar is slightly bigger and more powerful. Certainly not more aero than aero bullet himself so in theory he will have to expend more calories in today’s TT.
If he doesn’t then someone may have adjusted a weight wrong on a Strava profile… so the algorithm is spitting out exaggerated information.
Let’s see if
Everyone knows that the calorie calculation on Strava is way off. Usually out by 20% or more.
That’s not from Strava! It’s data from power meter! Anyway, Pogacar data is weird! No way that can be correct. Maybe his weight is set several kg off in his device
@@ffreichert calories are calculated from heart rate not power.
Jasper's relegation was about to come, as this should've happened already last year. So he got what he deserved.
the calories thing depends on whether strava's using their power data to calculate it, or their weight, or assumed weight...
You can’t compare strava calories without power data. Tadejs power meter could have disconnected and stravas calculation is extremelylow when it comes to calories burned without power data.
“It looks like a stage’s custom if you’re playing a crow.” 🤣
Jonas has it wrong on the efficiency thing. Jorgenson, Pogacar and Evenepoel do not publish their power on Strava. The calories are based on an estimation of the Strava app based on their declared weight and the speed. It is a very inaccurate.
Tadej getting caught out by himself is another example of why UAE’s big talent isn’t as much of an advantage as people think and jumbo’s seemingly weaker team is actually stronger than people think
Are the Strava calorie burn values accurate?
If it's based off wattage its accurate
@@angelsaulovelazquez3232 even based on weight and algorithmic power is pretty accurate. if they don't use motors lol
it's not. None of the riders shared their power nor HR...
Thats amount of calories looks too low for Poggy, sounds weird, it is about 20 km walking a regulare pace.....
@@josebernardoduran4897I agree 100%. When determining calories based off of a power meter, you multiply 3.6 by the avg watts for an hour. Based on that, Pogi burned an average of about 390 calories per hour which would put his avg wattage at 108. That seems impossible for a grand tour stage. Matteo would’ve averaged around 240 which sounds more probable.
the calories for these pros are calculated from their head unit software.. then that number is uploaded into strava.. I don't know what units these guys are using... however... if you record directly from the Strava app then Strava does its own calorie estimation.
Wahoo and Garmin are calculation calories in very different ways. So comparing them directly makes no sense
Bullshit Johan!! Nobody was in cavs wheel when he went from the right to the left.
Calorie calculations on strava not accurate without power data
If you say so ,it's almost a "miracle " you guys managed to survive all these years!!! Ads of course are a part of the show but more than a third of the time of show is to much !! Anyway is just an opinion!
He didn't change his line in "theory", it was very real.
Sorry but JB is 100% wrong in his opinion on this.
The comparison with the Cavendish sprint (and he is no saint) is apples and oranges. Cavendish did not impede anyone. Philipsen did.
It is really easy to armchair a situation after the fact. JB needs to officiate in some sort of sport to understand that he isn't always right on matters like this. It isn't as easy as he thinks.
It’s true Johan, No TT training, flat non technical route and Jonas only seen it on video as he didn’t participate in Visma training there.. so about 30-45 seconds loss to Pogi would be acceptable…
People say "this is racing", yet those same people would prefer an honest head to head sprint. It would be more entertaining to see potentially 4 riders across the front sprinting rather than generally 1 or 2, because a couple have been squeezed out
We have video evidence now so we can make sprinting better, get with the times
Glasses could be for UV nose protection? Maybe he has some skin issues that makes it wise to use?
I agree Johann re sprint yesterday, Cav had to switch to get rid of Philipsen, but they couldn’t not disqualify as he was a hero after winning.
Today sent Philipsen a message, he is rough in the bunch, I saw nothing unruly today
All that said, what a sprint by Cav, I am not a fan but some sprinting brain to navigate and win that at 39
Cavendish has the Musk. Rules do not apply equally because they fear the mob of zergling orchs in their sofas' and home baked energy bars.
The rule is xyz, except if you are the poster boy, then the rule does not apply or applies only with 1% of its scope.
Cav did not impede anyone with his vector change.
Pogi doesn't burn many calories - his electric motor does the work 🙂
the show the move was supposed to be :) if there is a breakaway rider and he changes direction at the finish, will they DQ him? of course not, nobbody in danger, same as in cavi's case. and dohh, u cant go straight around or bend, you take the shortest route. . todays DQ was still harsh tho
1630 cal 😮
JB, why don't we see bonuses in a Time Trial?
It seems unfair in the big picture.
Yes- hold your line-but the relegation on impeding another rider!
I think that Ayuso said that because after the incident, almost every cycling media, sos-med, criticized Ayuso, after seeing Almeida's gesture in Galabier. Everyone all said, Ayuso was protecting his own personal ambitions. Now, the spotlight was on him, but not on a good note. Everyone talked about him. I'm sure the peloton too. So if Almeida wasn't gesturing like that, no one probably would pick up that Ayuso sandbagging at the back to protect his GC position. No wonder he was a bit pissed off. JB, I don't think VL is calm. If Jonas, lost a lot of time tomorrow, there's no calm for them... LOL. More like, hoping.. that Jonas would be competitive against Pogi. Especially he has been performing above their expectation. So they are just doing their best, and see how it goes...
I disagree that Cav didn't see ... if you watch the tape again, before he went to the left, Cav looked to the left (which I thought was amazing that he could do that). What Cav did, wasn't like Philipsen. Impeding other rider, or dangering other rider with his deviation As far as Philipsen, he did this a lot. That's why Jacobsen was pissed off at Philipsen. He pushed people around him to follow MVP last year. (see it in Netflix)
If
How do they nowadays check for some motor assisted doping on the bike?? Little disks in the wheel etc????
Its all about money so they will use everything in amd outside the body
They X-ray the bikes every day
Jp tried so hard to crash out wva that he lost the sprint anyway! That’s why they call him the disaster.
Nasty jaspy
Johan can very much fk off with the ayuso praising... Almeida is the one who showed leadership by putting the toddler in its place! And fyi... No.. Almeida has no personal ambitions in this Race. He knows who is the leader... unlike Merduso!
This channel is beginning to look like Pogacar is running it. Sprint stage and the opening spiel is again about pogacar, not Dylan. Also he is protected, and not 6 foot 3 like matteo joergenson. Different strokes for different folks. Your internal engine is a little bit different than the person beside you. Also, these are estimates based on the effort made by the riders and not a measurement made exactly with an instrument.
Google Garmin vs Wahoo calorie accuracy.
At around 80k to go, Vingegaard riding on the right hand edge of the pavement, a rider drops his right shoulder into Jonas, clearly an intentional barge. JV stayed on the road (fortunately). An adjacent rider signaled to calm down, pumping his palm down.
WTF?
Stop lying. It was clearly Jonas fault. He was going from down to up peloton around unaware guy brushing against him who flinched because he did not know about him. Jonas should have talk to him that he is going from the right side...
Yves Lampaert was looking back on his left and deviated right hitting Jonas(unintentional ) but always dangerous when they do that in the bunch.
Jasper Japarov
Remco is one the most aero riders in the peloton, but some how he is almost double the caleries. I burn more calories walking around the block. I'm sorry, but something is wrong with this. Maybe he will this years TDF by 1hr with out breaking a sweat. Then all the aniylist will tell us about how much he trains and that he is a real winner and has a heart of a champion. It must be nice to be the only rider at the tour who knows how to train and has the heart of a champion.
Maybe he will go to the Vuelta and win that by 30min, since doesnt have to break a sweat at the tour he should have plenty of energy left for Spain. Why stop there, he can lap the field at the olympics. Just forget he is super human and it is all normal, so dont question it.
ALL the pros should get a 10min head start in any race he starts. Then maybe he would break a sweat, maybe.
The bottom line is that he is flying to way to close to the sun with wings made of HGH( or something else along those lines) and "he is just a winner"crap is getting super old and harder and harder to believe.
Please dont talk about how much he is drug tested. We all know how those test prove. Some of the biggest cheats of all time never tested positive during their careers, so that arugment is BS, Just remember that may of those same cheats acheived levels that everyone thought were super human and look how that turned out for them.
Should have been a yellow card to Philipson not relegation.
Oh wow! It does not matter if someone crashes or not? Come on! This would only promote dangerous sprinting more and more!
Phillipsen has the best lead out. Not the fastest sprinter on the flat.
Wout had to take evasive measures to avoid a crash. Are you blind? Disqualification was quite appropriate.
JB needs to run a WT team.... movistar.... Just saying...
Ehmm.. no
Woww those two even once they don’t mention Binam germay’s name even tho the conversation the situation was included him but instead they don’t want to mention Binam woww that’s amazing racism still exists in cycling analysis shocking
Girmay did not win. We have talked about him a lot, especially two years ago. we are fans. Not sure where your hatred is coming from
Was following you until talking about Phillipsen and Cavendish. Now I realize, this is just two dudes bloviating.
word of the day 😁 yeah, comparison totally lacking context
Can someone tell me why Jonas will get better during the tour but Pogacar won’t. Never a mention of that. Pogacar will get better too won’t he but it is always about Jonas.?
Because the last two years he has gotten worse during the 3 weeks, while Jonas got better and better.
The whole you can't move is idiotic. How do you come out of a slipstream without moving? But F1 says you have to leave room, and penalizes for causing a crash. Moving on a clear road? No penalty. Moving someone into the barrier? Penalty.
You move 1 meter left or right to pass the rider in front of you, no need to swerve 5 meters to the left as Cav and later Philipsen did. Cav of course KNEW that Philipsen would follow him and that the group of riders on the left would be going left too as a consequence of that (think domino). Is that impeding? I think so, and Pedersen paid for it. Not like it was Cav's first sprint and him not knowing how riders react to the one in front!
What would you do on a 3 lane freeway, with you driving in lane 2 or 3, and a car from lane 1 do a complete shift from lane 1 to 3 only 4 meters in front of you, even if it was speeding up and going 2 kph faster than you? Would you just keep you speed, step off the gas or perhaps even hit the brakes somewhat? The car in lane 1 of course did look over his shoulder or out his window and saw no one immediately beside him at that split second, or maybe he did and took the chance anyway - like Cav.
Motor! In your face...
UAE, too many chiefs and not enough Indians
7th
Pure showvanisme van Johan. Cqvendish bracht niemand in gevaar dat deed Phillpesen wel
Pogacar has some motor in his bike? Amd uses less energy???