I think I chose a random video of yours to say this but I kind of wanted to say that I respect you're being a middle of the road type voice in all this. What I mean by that is I'm a big enjoyer of this FF7R project but I don't watch the crazy positive content actually I find myself watching videos like yours and even Orion85 who would be someone very critical of 7R and now ripped Rebirth to pieces. The thing is I can see the problems with this game but I love it at the same time and I get that sense from you too. When finishing Rebirth I don't have the same hype level anymore but I'm still in this. Keep on keeping on.
Yeah and it’s taken me a while to reconcile my range of feelings on Rebirth because so much of it is as brilliant while other parts dropped the ball. The podcast that just happened yesterday between Bltzz, Max Dood, NSP, Sleepezi, and Babyseal was a good listen if you missed it. It’s on Bltzz’s channel. I’m planning to make a video about Rebirth soon but I got sick, so had to delay it.
Man. Youve just made my day. This is exactly the content im looking for this week. Nothing got to do with spoilers or trailers, and most importantly, long. Thank you for your time and effort putting this together. Ive been like an addict waiting for the 29th. Youve giving me a little fix to get me through today!
thanks! glad you're enjoying it. I wasn't sure about posting given there only being a week left, but it's been good to hear that it's helped people pass the time in the final stretch here.
My man!! I think one great piece you bring up is about the reason FF7's story resonates. Looking through the lies and deception. I think that element digs deep with many characters who are told not only by themselves but by the world itself that they either are special or aren't special. Sephiroth's life is dictated by this global perception that gives him a very isolated, un-nurtured existence. Character's like Homelander really draw parallels to show what power without socialization, friendship, and most specifically parental love stunt growth. I think that will play in to how the "Sephiroth Redemption" feint inevitably plays out. I think the "Hero" portion of Sephiroth that predates the "Jenova" version will seek his own autonomy, authority of his existence and regain his honor. This doesn't mean he becomes a good character, merely he achieves his own agency. This parallels the arc that Cloud went through, touches in AC, and is now having an even harder time (seemingly), accomplishing that goal in the Remake trilogy. How we view the world, how the people around us view us, how that warps our world view and dictates our level of willpower and agency to interact with that world is really on full display here. Thanks for this amazing drop Subtxt, you always manage to provide insight in areas other people often miss. Cheers on making the deadline!
@@SubTXT_ I think we’ve collected enough lore cumulatively to know Square is already overthinking it so I’m pretty sure you’re right on the nose hahaha.
What you said about the ending point for Rebirth rings true for me. Kitase has specifically mentioned Empire Strikes Back and "dark second chapters" so many times I think that just the Aerith death, while big in itself, doesn't feel big enough for the *end* of a game. I think at the least they need to end with Cloud also losing his mind. That said, in thinking about it there's a few approaches they could use to do this and that dialogue you connected might make it true. Angle 1: Sephiroth already has strange lines calling Cloud a puppet, don't fake your sadness, etc. before throwing down Jenova Life to battle. You just play out the death and burial like normal but the game goes on and by the end of that those lines come back. It could be as simple as someone bringing them up. "Wait, what did he mean by puppet?" You eventually lead into Sephiroth's reveal, the photo, etc. and stress even more "You're not real." Cloud is catatonic by the end of the game. If you're wondering how you handle the Northern Crater in Part 3, think about this: they've been very careful to save party members, like having Red 13 present but not playable until Rebirth. Would you begin Part 3 only to have Cloud gone after an hour of playtime for what I bet would be like 10 hours minimum? No, you have him down. But how would that affect the feeling of betrayal at the Crater? You can still do that. The other party members do the thing where they go on ahead but leave someone with the Black Materia. This is at the Forgotten Capital instead of the Maze. They're not just leaving behind the Materia but several people (to make the starting party small and easy to do a tutorial) to take care of Cloud. Once you get to the Crater, you have a flashback cut to show Sephiroth controlling Cloud to come out of his catatonic state and take out the others, stealing the Black Materia. He warps to the Crater, scene plays out as normal. To keep this short an alternate method is you push Forgotten Capital to right outside the crater. It's what was outside the blast radius enough to survive. Jenova crashed down in the capital itself, which is why the kill number is so high for the Ancients. It also parallels Midgar getting threatened by Meteor.
I finally got around to finishing it. Really enjoyed the style and your insights as always. Need to buy my uncle a copy of the game, I'm eternally grateful he got me into FF7 back in the day. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming game...so close! Also. I also have been wanting a resolution regarding Jenova. Thank you again for your time and energy...and for sharing.
I think there is a way Zack's thing could be both the Lifestream afterlife and a timeline. With the talk of how the Whispers work and how the Lifestream works. In brief, the Whispers ensure a set of events is followed in the life of the planet. Meanwhile, the Lifestream is where all life goes when it dies to return to the planet and essentially power it and birth new life from that energy - sort of a Buddhist type thing here. In simple words: the dead become the future. It would make sense to me if the flow of time is contained within or connected to the Lifestream. So Zack's world could be Sephiroth's planned future but also a place Zack could run into the dead. Going with the subtitle it's waiting to be "born" and that is his endgame for Part 3.
I think that’s very valid. I can’t remember if I mentioned it in this video or another, but I had a similar thought somewhere about SOMEHOW Zack ending up in some future time/reality. I think it was my last video in the chapter about how Zack’s timeline makes no sense. The biggest clue to me was that Zack seems to arrive in Midgar AFTER major events. I didn’t mention it in the video, but I’ve seen people speculate that the rift in the sky was already created by meteor and when he’s looking up, he is seeing the impact of meteor. I actually think that could be FASCINATING. 1) It kinda scratches my itch to do the Evangelion thing and go past the endpoint we know, and 2) doesn’t involve just some cheap interaction between Zack and the party, but rather is an exploration of Sephiroth’s endgame.
I kind of started to come to a similar conclusion when everyone was on the two timeline train. I was thinking of it as Schrodinger's Zack, so to speak. That the Planet's will had some kind of superposition, and that the party killing the whispers has had this adverse effect on what the Planet sees as reality. That this other possibility is starting to collapse into existence. I think you could still make a case for that with this much more lore-inclusive context of Sephiroth's stagnant reality that these tubers have put together.
@@SubTXT_ Ok I'm replaying Remake now, nearing the end, and I'm even more convinced Zack is still dead. No matter what it is (other timeline, afterlife, both) I've always been convinced the Biggs at the end of Remake is in the same place Zack is. He's dead in the main party's world. But there's just more proof from my replay: Chapter 13 has you going back to Sector 7 and down into Deepground to find Wedge. The chapter makes specific pains not for Barrett to know they're dead like in the original but to hammer home both Biggs and Jessie, specifically, are dead, dead, dead. Both Cloud and Tifa tell him and then in Chapter 14 in the sewers we get more dialogue about how much everyone will miss them. At the end we see Biggs and then there's also Jessie's gloves+headband on the table next to him. They're the ones we know are dead. You might think, well, Wedge is also dead after briefly escaping, but I'm going to guess he isn't; he's still the lone survivor of the trio. I rewatched his final scene at 0.25 speed on RUclips and they kind of cleverly disguise it at normal speed but 1) at the start the elevator Aerith and Barrett are in fighting Arsenal shoots down in slo-mo like they want you to pay attention 2) it changes scene after this and makes sure you never get a good view of the glass wall but past all the Whispers Wedge seems to be angled at the elevator doors (which are also glass.) I think it's likely he's thrown through those or the glass wall next to them, causing the glass shatter sound, but at an angle he can land on top of the elevator some floors down. Now at the same time Zack's survival seems to mimic his death, with some streamers even thinking he still died until seeing the bit where him hauling Cloud intercuts with Cloud and Aerith walking by each other. (Max Dood did this when he was playing, for one example.) But I noticed something: Cloud is not present in any scene with Zack until the Whispers are defeated. Even the immediate aftermath. Zack calls out to him but we don't hear even some grunts and we don't see him when if they're falling past games he should be around where Zack falls from the blast. Why? Well go back earlier in the game. When Cloud falls from the Reactor to the Church, we get a scene that in the original is a black screen with a few pieces of text meant to be from his inner voice. In that game while he is not seen there, he later shows up as a kid dressed in white, like he does in Nibelheim. Except in Remake we do see inner voice Cloud but he's like the double image of normal Cloud. Notably neither of them are wearing Buster swords. You might be getting where I'm going but where do we first see Cloud with Zack? When they pass each other. Zack is carrying a representative of Cloud's self. The entire alternate world appears to be pretty messed up. The whole goal will be to break Cloud down, which since this is his inner self, will basically break Cloud's will. I'm even more convinced Cloud will go crazy by the end of Rebirth due to this. On the other hand, meteor seems to have an even bigger role than before and I can't get the Ultimania comments about the "World of Meteor" clashing with the "Lifestream world" out of my head. The Singularity to me, just on a gut level, seems like it contains Midgar after Meteor hits. Think of all the debris. Also the vision Cloud has of Meteor hitting shows the main piece of the Shinra building being blown off and then that's the state it's in during the Singularity.
2:15:00 You mention how it makes sense Cloud can sense Sephiroth, but how he hears Aerith voice isn't exactly obvious.... i think maybe because he senses Sephiroth who is in close proximity to Aerith, he can hear her. Also, we just saw her appear to Cloud in a dream, so she could be trying to reach out to Cloud with Sephiroth so close but she can't interrupt the prayer to Holy Also, great stuff about "setups and payoffs"
In the live chat, Lully Jo brought up a good point that perhaps Aerith, as a Cetra, can use the Lifestream to reach out? It could also be Jenova/Sephiroth luring him to that place though and Cloud mistaking it for Aerith.
Adding to what SubTXT_ said, there's also an aspect to certain people with affinity for Mako/Lifestream. Take Marlene for example. She's sensitive for someone who supposedly has no Cetra qualities. Cloud's sensitivity to Mako and the Lifestream has been played with in OG but never explicitly elaborated upon.
I'm with you on the fact that Rebirth should end at the Northern Crater...but I want to completely hold back my expectations and embrace whatever they do. I don't want to be disappointed just because they have the ending in mind that they want to execute.
Great stuff dude. So much id love to say but there's too much! I guess ill just start with Aerith hearing her mother could be something that is fleshed out. Also, broadly, the point you made about there being a lot more OG in remake than people realize is something ive tried to highlight as well in my videos. Feb 29th feels like months away again right now!
Thanks. And obviously a lot of your content has influenced my views now as well. I was in the middle of my playthrough (had reached Aerith’s death) when you made your first video and I was like, “yes… he’s talking about that pool of consciousness in the temple that’s tormenting me!” I didn’t watch your last video because I saw a State of Play screenshot at one point and ran 😂. I know, I make theory videos and then run from marketing. But I don’t wanna know THAT much going in haha. (I didn’t watch SOP or the Final Trailer) Would be interested in any of your takes on my last couple of big ideas (#9 and #11 in the chapter listing).
Gotcha man no worries. Thanks for the shoutouts! Im kinda blown away being mentioned in the stuff you've done. Im happy to be included. I havent got to those sections yet of this vid. im at the hour 20 mark. Also, profNoctis inquired about the three of us talking, which i was down for until the reviews started coming out...i thought maybe the timing would be bad? was that message relayed to you? Anyway, we should chat sometime.
@@off-meta-michael Yeah, I know he wanted to do one last "pre Rebirth" chat but not sure how timing is working out given our respective schedules but it would be really fun.
@@SubTXT_ well i said i was free Saturday and sunday, but then thought people might not want to hear anymore until they've played it themselves, and the reviews being dropped initiated that feeling. I mean, here i am still talking and listening haha, so maybe others want something more still to pass the time until the 29th? Anyway, this playthrough you put together is really great. Im enjoying it A LOT.
@@off-meta-michael I TOTALLY get that. I’ll ask Noctis. I was a bit sad that I couldn’t get this video done before reviews dropped because I also felt people wouldn’t care much. Hence the “Why Watch?” section of my intro 😂 Are you connected to him on Discord or Twitter by any chance?
I'm 2 hours in. The talk of memories being reframed as materia's access level knowledge is something I thought about but never really applied at a higher level. Sure, sleepezi framed the lifestream as memories, but for some reason my brain separated the terms. My mind always thought of the granting of knowledge by materia as different from lifstream memory. However, all materia is just the coalescence and crystalization of the lifestream, of memories. Access level increases when the lifestream condenses. The whole "worlds collide" ploy Sephiroth is doing is a very FF7 concept. The idea that the lifestream, the essence of materia, can fluctuate and merge due to external and internal threats has already been touched upon. What occurs when it gets condensed, naturally or artificially? Yup, so with expanded context, and seen from another angle, Sephiroth is pulling a FF8 time compression equivalent card here. It's still the OG goal of absorb the lifestream and preserve within him, but with added perspective and consequence. Shit, this concept works even below the cosmic level. On the local level, what is SOLDIER? Hojo has been artificially creating (ifrit) materia for Shinra for decades at this point, and SOLDIER is just that process extended to humans/monsters w/ Jenova cells for spice. Remake is treating Cloud not just as a vessel but as someone who's extremely sensitive to the access level knowledge granted by the planet. Hell, he was sensitive before he was experimented on. He's just that compatible as a human hybrid materia. Another thought just occurred to me. The Ifalna videos. The planet cannot recover, so it cannot produce life on par with the cetra. It's not like this world has to absolutely follow our world's rules. If the planet calls the shots in terms of how life is born into the world, then it could have replenished the cetra if it had the power to do so. It doesn't. Any attempt by people to recreate that access level at scale only further harms the planet. Damn it, Hojo. This can also explain why the planet is still trying to maintain at least a level of sensitivity within people like Marlene. Just trying everything it can within the limitations Jenova has placed on it.
I’m binge watching a bunch of first-time ffvii playthroughs on YT and your name keeps popping up in the various chats 😂 I love seeing your comments, dude! And this video is awesome, inspiring, in fact
Thanks man! Yeah, I have a bit of an addiction to watching people consume this story haha. Makes it fun to see what they pick up on and miss and why the story seems to work from another perspective outside of my own.
@@SubTXT_ me too, man. I have the itch. I love watching playthroughs… but it makes me so sad when the streamer gets one guy’d, or there’s people confidently giving bad advice lol
2:57:47 About the praise Barrett was talking about referring to Rufus, I think he was just taking back the compliment he said about him having guts taking down weapon all on his own. Small compliment but that’s all he meant. Although I do feel Rufus has a big arc coming that’s gonna make me like him as a character. I enjoy a morally ambiguous villain.
Ah yeah, good catch. It was such a small compliment that I totally forgot about it. FF7 has a decent chunk of cut content, so I was wondering if it was related to some unseen cut content
@@SubTXT_ oh really? I do wonder if they flesh that cut content like you said in Rebirth cause Rufus does seem to have unfinished plot points in OG for him to just show up in Advent Children
i love zach. they just headlines him in a game that wasnt as good. plain and simple. however as a human being, he in my opinion is who everyone strives to be. genesis wants to be like zach by the end of crisis core. cloud looks up to zach for obvious reasons, and strives to live out zachs legacy. i feel ppl forget how important zach truly is for the story of og ff7. problem is, u had to go looking for answers back in the day, and there was nowhere besides a guide to look bc the internet wasnt a thing really, at that time anyway.
So good, thanks for all the effort that went into putting this video together. I've been thinking ever since the remake project was announced to be three parts that part 3 must go pretty far beyond the end of the OG game. How far it goes is going to be so much fun to see. I don't remember which of the two, but Kitase or Nomura said the trilogy would still naturally lead into the events of Advent Children. Is that another red herring and we actually eradicate Geostigma by the end of part 3, before the events of Advent Children? Or does Advent Children still happen exactly the same and we (fingers crossed) get a chunky Strife Delivery Service portion of the game? What if part 3 covers all of Advent Children?! Probably not but a punk can dream.
Yeah, I think it may be a bit of a pipe dream if we’re to take the devs at their word. Before the recent Advent Children theater screenings, they had a feature and in it, Kitase said that “timeline wise, Advent Children’s story happens “just beyond the story of the remake project.” But also said it will be interesting for people as see how they connect - which implies some unexpectedness. Nomura then said they are not separate pieces and will connect somehow - somewhat looser language than Kitase. We’ll see what they do. I think AC sets up what seems to be an endless cycle, so I wouldn’t mind putting a true end to it all as I mentioned during this playthrough, but I could also see the creators wanting to ingeniously recreate 7 in a way that it still sequentially leads to something they put a lot of themselves into (Advent Children). So we shall see…
31:00 the trick for going up with the dolphin is to not move at all. The dolphin will place you where you need to be to go up, only takes 3-4 boost to go up. 34:00 Roche is a 3-C Soldier.
Perfect, I can help with the wait. That was a big plan for me with the video. Wish I could’ve gotten it done even sooner but at least I got it done before release ha
On my replay IMHO Cait Sith/Reeve was the character who was the most of a mess arc wise. The whole kidnapping thing as part of his turn is baffling as Remake making him a nicer guy isn't new, he's also seen objecting in the Board meeting in the original; they could have gone with the trope of Shinra actually ordering him to use CS and being the ones behind the kidnapping of Marlene and Elmyra which would make it work more. It's insane to me that Barrett barely reacts to this and late game only insults him by calling him a traitor. I could definitely see him being a great character in Rebirth just because he gives an insight into Shinra corporate and his combat gameplay looks fun.
Ah yes. Because I was trying to cut things down for time and focus more on thoughts I hadn’t heard from too many others, I had actually cut out the bit I had about the Marlene kidnapping. They for sure can’t do that IMO. That was a massive plot hole in the OG to me. The OG as a whole was only made in about a year, so I think they rushed some plot points tbh and that was one that wasn’t very well thought through. I can picture their meeting like, “why would the party keep him around?” “We gotta give them a reason.” “How about… he kidnaps Marlene so he has leverage?” “Sure.” 😂 And as you said, it’s really not in line with his portrayal in Remake (and the Compilation as a whole tbh)
i got to the northern crater part of this video now so ive got to ask u. u said u think rebirth shouldve ended here. if they wouldve done that how would there be enough story left for the third game? they wouldve had to have the last part be weapons and all new stuff i guess. also dont forget nomura said in an interview that the game goes up to the forgotten capital, but also reiterated 3 times that the arrangement of places and events has been greatly altered. im curious to hear what u think they couldve done with the 3rd game though if they wouldve went that far in this one
Like a lot of people, I figured it would open with the Escape from Junon, which could be a crazy opening set piece. They could even showcase the Oceans 11-style scheme to break Tifa and Barret out. The primary thrusts of the narrative would center on stopping Meteor and finding/saving Cloud. After all, that is still in the logo of the game so they have to focus on it at some point, and that seemed like Part 3 material. The Lifestream sequence could be expanded. The Return to Midgar could be expanded. Wutai could be brought in and explored, likely both for Yuffie’s character and in a way that’s relevant to Return to Midgar. There are the Weapons released on the world to take care of. Of course, the final confrontation with Sephiroth. That’s not even mentioning the trip to the Underwater Reactor and Space, which is part of the Huge materia quest line. I personally think they need to rewrite that because it always felt a BIT like filler, but got a pass since it included cool stuff like going to Space. But the game literally tells you, “You don’t even need to get the Huge materia from that submarine you shot down, you can go back for that later.” But they have started to set it up with Scarlett doing those materia experiments. I also think, as I mentioned at a couple of points in the video, they could expand past the endpoint of the original and come to a more conclusive ending. Maybe even go so far as to eradicate Jenova completely in order to end her impact on the world as we see later in the Compilation… especially if the creators want to truly finish this story they’ve been building for almost 30 years.
![7 Spells That Ended Up Being Almost Completely Useless [Commenter Edition]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IjXuU0X8zsM/mqdefault.jpg)
I think I chose a random video of yours to say this but I kind of wanted to say that I respect you're being a middle of the road type voice in all this. What I mean by that is I'm a big enjoyer of this FF7R project but I don't watch the crazy positive content actually I find myself watching videos like yours and even Orion85 who would be someone very critical of 7R and now ripped Rebirth to pieces. The thing is I can see the problems with this game but I love it at the same time and I get that sense from you too. When finishing Rebirth I don't have the same hype level anymore but I'm still in this. Keep on keeping on.
Yeah and it’s taken me a while to reconcile my range of feelings on Rebirth because so much of it is as brilliant while other parts dropped the ball. The podcast that just happened yesterday between Bltzz, Max Dood, NSP, Sleepezi, and Babyseal was a good listen if you missed it. It’s on Bltzz’s channel. I’m planning to make a video about Rebirth soon but I got sick, so had to delay it.
Love this insight
Yea man, im digging this as well.
Man. Youve just made my day. This is exactly the content im looking for this week. Nothing got to do with spoilers or trailers, and most importantly, long. Thank you for your time and effort putting this together. Ive been like an addict waiting for the 29th. Youve giving me a little fix to get me through today!
thanks! glad you're enjoying it. I wasn't sure about posting given there only being a week left, but it's been good to hear that it's helped people pass the time in the final stretch here.
Based Rhonda enjoyer. 😂 I'm gonna enjoy watching this in bite sized chunks throughout the next few days.
😂 Rhonda is the real endgame…
I'll wait for five hrs . Just looking at this thumbnail
My man!! I think one great piece you bring up is about the reason FF7's story resonates. Looking through the lies and deception. I think that element digs deep with many characters who are told not only by themselves but by the world itself that they either are special or aren't special. Sephiroth's life is dictated by this global perception that gives him a very isolated, un-nurtured existence. Character's like Homelander really draw parallels to show what power without socialization, friendship, and most specifically parental love stunt growth. I think that will play in to how the "Sephiroth Redemption" feint inevitably plays out. I think the "Hero" portion of Sephiroth that predates the "Jenova" version will seek his own autonomy, authority of his existence and regain his honor. This doesn't mean he becomes a good character, merely he achieves his own agency. This parallels the arc that Cloud went through, touches in AC, and is now having an even harder time (seemingly), accomplishing that goal in the Remake trilogy. How we view the world, how the people around us view us, how that warps our world view and dictates our level of willpower and agency to interact with that world is really on full display here.
Thanks for this amazing drop Subtxt, you always manage to provide insight in areas other people often miss. Cheers on making the deadline!
Thanks. Great to hear that part resonated because even though I loved it, I did reach a part while editing where I thought, “Am I overthinking it?” 😂
@@SubTXT_ I think we’ve collected enough lore cumulatively to know Square is already overthinking it so I’m pretty sure you’re right on the nose hahaha.
What you said about the ending point for Rebirth rings true for me. Kitase has specifically mentioned Empire Strikes Back and "dark second chapters" so many times I think that just the Aerith death, while big in itself, doesn't feel big enough for the *end* of a game. I think at the least they need to end with Cloud also losing his mind. That said, in thinking about it there's a few approaches they could use to do this and that dialogue you connected might make it true.
Angle 1: Sephiroth already has strange lines calling Cloud a puppet, don't fake your sadness, etc. before throwing down Jenova Life to battle. You just play out the death and burial like normal but the game goes on and by the end of that those lines come back. It could be as simple as someone bringing them up. "Wait, what did he mean by puppet?" You eventually lead into Sephiroth's reveal, the photo, etc. and stress even more "You're not real." Cloud is catatonic by the end of the game.
If you're wondering how you handle the Northern Crater in Part 3, think about this: they've been very careful to save party members, like having Red 13 present but not playable until Rebirth. Would you begin Part 3 only to have Cloud gone after an hour of playtime for what I bet would be like 10 hours minimum? No, you have him down. But how would that affect the feeling of betrayal at the Crater? You can still do that. The other party members do the thing where they go on ahead but leave someone with the Black Materia. This is at the Forgotten Capital instead of the Maze. They're not just leaving behind the Materia but several people (to make the starting party small and easy to do a tutorial) to take care of Cloud.
Once you get to the Crater, you have a flashback cut to show Sephiroth controlling Cloud to come out of his catatonic state and take out the others, stealing the Black Materia. He warps to the Crater, scene plays out as normal. To keep this short an alternate method is you push Forgotten Capital to right outside the crater. It's what was outside the blast radius enough to survive. Jenova crashed down in the capital itself, which is why the kill number is so high for the Ancients. It also parallels Midgar getting threatened by Meteor.
I finally got around to finishing it.
Really enjoyed the style and your insights as always. Need to buy my uncle a copy of the game, I'm eternally grateful he got me into FF7 back in the day.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming game...so close!
Also. I also have been wanting a resolution regarding Jenova.
Thank you again for your time and energy...and for sharing.
Thanks, and it’s worth mentioning that ProfNoctis’s latest video also gets into the “finish Jenova” topic too in a very interesting way.
I think there is a way Zack's thing could be both the Lifestream afterlife and a timeline. With the talk of how the Whispers work and how the Lifestream works. In brief, the Whispers ensure a set of events is followed in the life of the planet. Meanwhile, the Lifestream is where all life goes when it dies to return to the planet and essentially power it and birth new life from that energy - sort of a Buddhist type thing here. In simple words: the dead become the future. It would make sense to me if the flow of time is contained within or connected to the Lifestream. So Zack's world could be Sephiroth's planned future but also a place Zack could run into the dead. Going with the subtitle it's waiting to be "born" and that is his endgame for Part 3.
I think that’s very valid. I can’t remember if I mentioned it in this video or another, but I had a similar thought somewhere about SOMEHOW Zack ending up in some future time/reality. I think it was my last video in the chapter about how Zack’s timeline makes no sense.
The biggest clue to me was that Zack seems to arrive in Midgar AFTER major events. I didn’t mention it in the video, but I’ve seen people speculate that the rift in the sky was already created by meteor and when he’s looking up, he is seeing the impact of meteor.
I actually think that could be FASCINATING. 1) It kinda scratches my itch to do the Evangelion thing and go past the endpoint we know, and 2) doesn’t involve just some cheap interaction between Zack and the party, but rather is an exploration of Sephiroth’s endgame.
I kind of started to come to a similar conclusion when everyone was on the two timeline train. I was thinking of it as Schrodinger's Zack, so to speak. That the Planet's will had some kind of superposition, and that the party killing the whispers has had this adverse effect on what the Planet sees as reality. That this other possibility is starting to collapse into existence. I think you could still make a case for that with this much more lore-inclusive context of Sephiroth's stagnant reality that these tubers have put together.
@@SubTXT_ Ok I'm replaying Remake now, nearing the end, and I'm even more convinced Zack is still dead. No matter what it is (other timeline, afterlife, both) I've always been convinced the Biggs at the end of Remake is in the same place Zack is. He's dead in the main party's world. But there's just more proof from my replay: Chapter 13 has you going back to Sector 7 and down into Deepground to find Wedge. The chapter makes specific pains not for Barrett to know they're dead like in the original but to hammer home both Biggs and Jessie, specifically, are dead, dead, dead. Both Cloud and Tifa tell him and then in Chapter 14 in the sewers we get more dialogue about how much everyone will miss them.
At the end we see Biggs and then there's also Jessie's gloves+headband on the table next to him. They're the ones we know are dead. You might think, well, Wedge is also dead after briefly escaping, but I'm going to guess he isn't; he's still the lone survivor of the trio. I rewatched his final scene at 0.25 speed on RUclips and they kind of cleverly disguise it at normal speed but 1) at the start the elevator Aerith and Barrett are in fighting Arsenal shoots down in slo-mo like they want you to pay attention 2) it changes scene after this and makes sure you never get a good view of the glass wall but past all the Whispers Wedge seems to be angled at the elevator doors (which are also glass.) I think it's likely he's thrown through those or the glass wall next to them, causing the glass shatter sound, but at an angle he can land on top of the elevator some floors down.
Now at the same time Zack's survival seems to mimic his death, with some streamers even thinking he still died until seeing the bit where him hauling Cloud intercuts with Cloud and Aerith walking by each other. (Max Dood did this when he was playing, for one example.) But I noticed something: Cloud is not present in any scene with Zack until the Whispers are defeated. Even the immediate aftermath. Zack calls out to him but we don't hear even some grunts and we don't see him when if they're falling past games he should be around where Zack falls from the blast.
Why? Well go back earlier in the game. When Cloud falls from the Reactor to the Church, we get a scene that in the original is a black screen with a few pieces of text meant to be from his inner voice. In that game while he is not seen there, he later shows up as a kid dressed in white, like he does in Nibelheim. Except in Remake we do see inner voice Cloud but he's like the double image of normal Cloud. Notably neither of them are wearing Buster swords.
You might be getting where I'm going but where do we first see Cloud with Zack? When they pass each other. Zack is carrying a representative of Cloud's self. The entire alternate world appears to be pretty messed up. The whole goal will be to break Cloud down, which since this is his inner self, will basically break Cloud's will. I'm even more convinced Cloud will go crazy by the end of Rebirth due to this.
On the other hand, meteor seems to have an even bigger role than before and I can't get the Ultimania comments about the "World of Meteor" clashing with the "Lifestream world" out of my head. The Singularity to me, just on a gut level, seems like it contains Midgar after Meteor hits. Think of all the debris. Also the vision Cloud has of Meteor hitting shows the main piece of the Shinra building being blown off and then that's the state it's in during the Singularity.
2:15:00
You mention how it makes sense Cloud can sense Sephiroth, but how he hears Aerith voice isn't exactly obvious.... i think maybe because he senses Sephiroth who is in close proximity to Aerith, he can hear her. Also, we just saw her appear to Cloud in a dream, so she could be trying to reach out to Cloud with Sephiroth so close but she can't interrupt the prayer to Holy
Also, great stuff about "setups and payoffs"
In the live chat, Lully Jo brought up a good point that perhaps Aerith, as a Cetra, can use the Lifestream to reach out? It could also be Jenova/Sephiroth luring him to that place though and Cloud mistaking it for Aerith.
Adding to what SubTXT_ said, there's also an aspect to certain people with affinity for Mako/Lifestream. Take Marlene for example. She's sensitive for someone who supposedly has no Cetra qualities. Cloud's sensitivity to Mako and the Lifestream has been played with in OG but never explicitly elaborated upon.
U a real fan for lettin the music play during cids theme
I forgot it played that rendition in that moment so it hit me like a truck (my last full playthrough was 2019)
FOUR HOURS!? I'm so locked in😂
Comment for the YT algorithm and again great video!
I'm with you on the fact that Rebirth should end at the Northern Crater...but I want to completely hold back my expectations and embrace whatever they do. I don't want to be disappointed just because they have the ending in mind that they want to execute.
Totally. It’s not me wanting something different. Just saying it’s hard to imagine. Which is what will make it surprising.
When we heard Dyne's voice acting in the latest trailer, everyone in the room burst out laughing.
Great stuff dude. So much id love to say but there's too much! I guess ill just start with Aerith hearing her mother could be something that is fleshed out.
Also, broadly, the point you made about there being a lot more OG in remake than people realize is something ive tried to highlight as well in my videos.
Feb 29th feels like months away again right now!
Thanks. And obviously a lot of your content has influenced my views now as well. I was in the middle of my playthrough (had reached Aerith’s death) when you made your first video and I was like, “yes… he’s talking about that pool of consciousness in the temple that’s tormenting me!”
I didn’t watch your last video because I saw a State of Play screenshot at one point and ran 😂. I know, I make theory videos and then run from marketing. But I don’t wanna know THAT much going in haha. (I didn’t watch SOP or the Final Trailer)
Would be interested in any of your takes on my last couple of big ideas (#9 and #11 in the chapter listing).
Gotcha man no worries. Thanks for the shoutouts! Im kinda blown away being mentioned in the stuff you've done. Im happy to be included. I havent got to those sections yet of this vid. im at the hour 20 mark.
Also, profNoctis inquired about the three of us talking, which i was down for until the reviews started coming out...i thought maybe the timing would be bad? was that message relayed to you? Anyway, we should chat sometime.
@@off-meta-michael Yeah, I know he wanted to do one last "pre Rebirth" chat but not sure how timing is working out given our respective schedules but it would be really fun.
@@SubTXT_ well i said i was free Saturday and sunday, but then thought people might not want to hear anymore until they've played it themselves, and the reviews being dropped initiated that feeling.
I mean, here i am still talking and listening haha, so maybe others want something more still to pass the time until the 29th?
Anyway, this playthrough you put together is really great. Im enjoying it A LOT.
@@off-meta-michael I TOTALLY get that. I’ll ask Noctis. I was a bit sad that I couldn’t get this video done before reviews dropped because I also felt people wouldn’t care much. Hence the “Why Watch?” section of my intro 😂
Are you connected to him on Discord or Twitter by any chance?
I'm 2 hours in. The talk of memories being reframed as materia's access level knowledge is something I thought about but never really applied at a higher level. Sure, sleepezi framed the lifestream as memories, but for some reason my brain separated the terms. My mind always thought of the granting of knowledge by materia as different from lifstream memory. However, all materia is just the coalescence and crystalization of the lifestream, of memories. Access level increases when the lifestream condenses. The whole "worlds collide" ploy Sephiroth is doing is a very FF7 concept. The idea that the lifestream, the essence of materia, can fluctuate and merge due to external and internal threats has already been touched upon. What occurs when it gets condensed, naturally or artificially? Yup, so with expanded context, and seen from another angle, Sephiroth is pulling a FF8 time compression equivalent card here. It's still the OG goal of absorb the lifestream and preserve within him, but with added perspective and consequence.
Shit, this concept works even below the cosmic level. On the local level, what is SOLDIER? Hojo has been artificially creating (ifrit) materia for Shinra for decades at this point, and SOLDIER is just that process extended to humans/monsters w/ Jenova cells for spice. Remake is treating Cloud not just as a vessel but as someone who's extremely sensitive to the access level knowledge granted by the planet. Hell, he was sensitive before he was experimented on. He's just that compatible as a human hybrid materia.
Another thought just occurred to me. The Ifalna videos. The planet cannot recover, so it cannot produce life on par with the cetra. It's not like this world has to absolutely follow our world's rules. If the planet calls the shots in terms of how life is born into the world, then it could have replenished the cetra if it had the power to do so. It doesn't. Any attempt by people to recreate that access level at scale only further harms the planet. Damn it, Hojo. This can also explain why the planet is still trying to maintain at least a level of sensitivity within people like Marlene. Just trying everything it can within the limitations Jenova has placed on it.
I’m binge watching a bunch of first-time ffvii playthroughs on YT and your name keeps popping up in the various chats 😂
I love seeing your comments, dude! And this video is awesome, inspiring, in fact
Thanks man! Yeah, I have a bit of an addiction to watching people consume this story haha. Makes it fun to see what they pick up on and miss and why the story seems to work from another perspective outside of my own.
@@SubTXT_ me too, man. I have the itch.
I love watching playthroughs… but it makes me so sad when the streamer gets one guy’d, or there’s people confidently giving bad advice lol
2:57:47
About the praise Barrett was talking about referring to Rufus, I think he was just taking back the compliment he said about him having guts taking down weapon all on his own. Small compliment but that’s all he meant. Although I do feel Rufus has a big arc coming that’s gonna make me like him as a character. I enjoy a morally ambiguous villain.
Ah yeah, good catch. It was such a small compliment that I totally forgot about it. FF7 has a decent chunk of cut content, so I was wondering if it was related to some unseen cut content
@@SubTXT_ oh really? I do wonder if they flesh that cut content like you said in Rebirth cause Rufus does seem to have unfinished plot points in OG for him to just show up in Advent Children
i love zach. they just headlines him in a game that wasnt as good. plain and simple. however as a human being, he in my opinion is who everyone strives to be. genesis wants to be like zach by the end of crisis core. cloud looks up to zach for obvious reasons, and strives to live out zachs legacy. i feel ppl forget how important zach truly is for the story of og ff7. problem is, u had to go looking for answers back in the day, and there was nowhere besides a guide to look bc the internet wasnt a thing really, at that time anyway.
Subtxt killing it as usual
So good, thanks for all the effort that went into putting this video together. I've been thinking ever since the remake project was announced to be three parts that part 3 must go pretty far beyond the end of the OG game. How far it goes is going to be so much fun to see. I don't remember which of the two, but Kitase or Nomura said the trilogy would still naturally lead into the events of Advent Children. Is that another red herring and we actually eradicate Geostigma by the end of part 3, before the events of Advent Children? Or does Advent Children still happen exactly the same and we (fingers crossed) get a chunky Strife Delivery Service portion of the game? What if part 3 covers all of Advent Children?! Probably not but a punk can dream.
Yeah, I think it may be a bit of a pipe dream if we’re to take the devs at their word. Before the recent Advent Children theater screenings, they had a feature and in it, Kitase said that “timeline wise, Advent Children’s story happens “just beyond the story of the remake project.” But also said it will be interesting for people as see how they connect - which implies some unexpectedness. Nomura then said they are not separate pieces and will connect somehow - somewhat looser language than Kitase.
We’ll see what they do. I think AC sets up what seems to be an endless cycle, so I wouldn’t mind putting a true end to it all as I mentioned during this playthrough, but I could also see the creators wanting to ingeniously recreate 7 in a way that it still sequentially leads to something they put a lot of themselves into (Advent Children). So we shall see…
Now Im just waiting for sleep ezi's video
Get ready for 8 hrs lmao
31:00 the trick for going up with the dolphin is to not move at all. The dolphin will place you where you need to be to go up, only takes 3-4 boost to go up. 34:00 Roche is a 3-C Soldier.
What a blast!! Thank you very much for your work ❤ this will help me be patient until I receive the game 😂 I'll watch the video bit by bit 👍
Perfect, I can help with the wait. That was a big plan for me with the video. Wish I could’ve gotten it done even sooner but at least I got it done before release ha
Let’s see if I can finish this before I get Rebirth!
2:58:13 just before this dialogue, Barret was saying Rufus had guts for standing up to the Weapons.
Yeah, it's such a fly-by line that I didn't notice it
On my replay IMHO Cait Sith/Reeve was the character who was the most of a mess arc wise. The whole kidnapping thing as part of his turn is baffling as Remake making him a nicer guy isn't new, he's also seen objecting in the Board meeting in the original; they could have gone with the trope of Shinra actually ordering him to use CS and being the ones behind the kidnapping of Marlene and Elmyra which would make it work more. It's insane to me that Barrett barely reacts to this and late game only insults him by calling him a traitor. I could definitely see him being a great character in Rebirth just because he gives an insight into Shinra corporate and his combat gameplay looks fun.
Ah yes. Because I was trying to cut things down for time and focus more on thoughts I hadn’t heard from too many others, I had actually cut out the bit I had about the Marlene kidnapping. They for sure can’t do that IMO. That was a massive plot hole in the OG to me. The OG as a whole was only made in about a year, so I think they rushed some plot points tbh and that was one that wasn’t very well thought through.
I can picture their meeting like, “why would the party keep him around?” “We gotta give them a reason.” “How about… he kidnaps Marlene so he has leverage?” “Sure.” 😂
And as you said, it’s really not in line with his portrayal in Remake (and the Compilation as a whole tbh)
Perfect narator❤
i got to the northern crater part of this video now so ive got to ask u. u said u think rebirth shouldve ended here. if they wouldve done that how would there be enough story left for the third game? they wouldve had to have the last part be weapons and all new stuff i guess. also dont forget nomura said in an interview that the game goes up to the forgotten capital, but also reiterated 3 times that the arrangement of places and events has been greatly altered. im curious to hear what u think they couldve done with the 3rd game though if they wouldve went that far in this one
Like a lot of people, I figured it would open with the Escape from Junon, which could be a crazy opening set piece. They could even showcase the Oceans 11-style scheme to break Tifa and Barret out. The primary thrusts of the narrative would center on stopping Meteor and finding/saving Cloud. After all, that is still in the logo of the game so they have to focus on it at some point, and that seemed like Part 3 material.
The Lifestream sequence could be expanded. The Return to Midgar could be expanded. Wutai could be brought in and explored, likely both for Yuffie’s character and in a way that’s relevant to Return to Midgar. There are the Weapons released on the world to take care of. Of course, the final confrontation with Sephiroth. That’s not even mentioning the trip to the Underwater Reactor and Space, which is part of the Huge materia quest line. I personally think they need to rewrite that because it always felt a BIT like filler, but got a pass since it included cool stuff like going to Space. But the game literally tells you, “You don’t even need to get the Huge materia from that submarine you shot down, you can go back for that later.” But they have started to set it up with Scarlett doing those materia experiments.
I also think, as I mentioned at a couple of points in the video, they could expand past the endpoint of the original and come to a more conclusive ending. Maybe even go so far as to eradicate Jenova completely in order to end her impact on the world as we see later in the Compilation… especially if the creators want to truly finish this story they’ve been building for almost 30 years.
roche should be clouds top competition in chocobo racing. imo
I fear for the bird’s safety with Roche’s wild energy handling the reigns 😂
Let's GOOOOO!
the voice over wanna be is cringe and i want to vomit. better stick with story telling.