Our lonely society makes it hard to come home from war | Sebastian Junger
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2016
- Sebastian Junger has seen war up close, and he knows the impact that battlefield trauma has on soldiers. But he suggests there's another major cause of pain for veterans when they come home: the experience of leaving the tribal closeness of the military and returning to an alienating and bitterly divided modern society. "Sometimes, we ask ourselves if we can save the vets," Junger says. "I think the real question is if we can save ourselves."
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"Everybody loves a soldier until he comes home"
I remember hearing that from Goon, after three deployments I honestly wonder how and why civilians are so shocked that combat veterans hate them and want to go back to war. Because it's a selfless society in war and civilian life is very individualistic
I never get how so much money is poured in defense budgets... yet how much is put into helping vets? (Or do the vets sometimes isolate themselves & not ask for help?)
89792131121607920 math is cool yes a lot isolate. Those I know got tired of chasing “help” especially bc we don’t know what “help” is. The VA is a joke, no actually it’s a travesty. Their definition of “help” is an hour of talk therapy MAYBE once a month and 10 minutes with a psychiatrist MAYBE 3 or 4 times a year.
In this modern society...."Everyone loves a soldier till they come home",.... civies don't know how to deal with, or relate to a combat veteran. They don't ask us about our experiences, for the most part, not because they don't want to disturb us, but because they are afraid of being disturbed by what it takes for them to be safe and free. The thought that their freedom and safety is not given birthright scares the normal civi.
TRUTH BRO. GOD BLESS.
From an Afghan infantry vet - this man has done more for me, helping understand my emotions and issues, than any therapist I've been to. Thank you.
Thank you for your service.
Amen Brother.
Welcome home my brother. I hurt everyday. I was a combat medic and I still hear the screams today just like it was yesterday.
Welcome home, bud.
YourHumbleServant831 Thank you my friend. Just reading that made my lousy day. Your a good man.
"I put my life on the line for these assholes?"
-veterans
exactly
Pretty much, ya..
"We'll send other people's children to fight our wars"
-Politicians
+Earl Obama yeah, let's make a sweeping generalization about hundreds of thousands of people. how could we possibly be wrong?
+Earl Obama, okay. jokes aside, I implore you to consider the possibility that people who sign their lives and rights over to the government do it for a multitude of reasons. they're not all heroes by any means, but what they do thereafter is in the name of their people, regardless of their intent. which was what I meant in my original comment.
Being a soldier was never the problem... quitting nearly killed me.
Phillip Lopez you're not the only one.
I'm with you on that one brother. I thought heroin was the solution and it's a miracle I'm still alive today. I guess I can say it was a way to end it all accidentally to the observer.
Building race cars has saved me. It's taken me 2 years to get here and Thank God he opened this door.
Addictive Warfare? Is this a thing?
Brian K watch his video on why veterans miss war. I think that'll answer your question.
"This is the country they fought for. No wonder they're depressed."
I didn't get PTSD from Iraq, but what this man is talking about I've experienced 100%. The feeling of not being able to count on anyone.
Same here brother
Stryker ICVs, I was a driver.
What about family?
Surely you can count on them
@@yeshuasage3724 you dont know if its "surely", you never do
@@vaevictis1697 speak for your own folk, a family brought up on strong values always stick together
This man is amazing. His book "Tribe" influenced my senior project so heavily. I reached out to him and he answered every question I had and gave me feedback on my paper. He is by far my favorite nonfiction author
Wow that’s super nice of him! What’s your senior project? With a senior father who’s struggling through loneliness and depression, I’d love to hear about your project
Wow that’s sweet
I wrote my senior year project on veteran ptsd and used his book for the same reasons. What a honor to have spoken with him
As a vet, and this is just my opinion. I have a whole different idea of what an emergency is than my civilian loved ones and friends. And I see people panicking all over the place, or stressing out, or complaining. Very few things are an actual emergency.
A civvy's two grains of salt here.
Very few things are an actual emergency, as in life-threatening situation, true.
But for them, it is an emergency.
Finishing a report, reading some books for an examination, etc. are legitimate emergencies for civilians, since their jobs or studies depend on these.
I took classes in university with an former air traffic controller who had been fired by Ronald Reagan back in the 70s or 80s. He was also a Viet Nam vet. He hated Reagan enough to take a shot at him. As he put it, there was nothing that justified Reagan's action--the air traffic controller strike "was nothing to get excited about." Then he said, "You got 500 VC coming over the hill--THAT'S something to get excited about!" So a civilian's two grains of salt, the relativity, works only to a point.
I do agree with you to say that relativity indeed works only to a point,
but I have to say I think it sort of goes both ways.
There were most-likely some people whose businesses and private matters were interfered with by the strike you mentioned. Wouldn't that be enough of a reason for the people concerned to at least voice some disagreement and legitimate dissatisfaction?
We can't expect civilians to always try and get in the shoes/boots of the veterans, and use that to brush any of the civilians' concerns aside. They have their own things and matters to attend to.
And while both civilians and servicemembers have to understand each other and to be aware of each others' situations with all due mutual respect, each also need to take care of their respective concerns and can't always live the other's life.
I sincerely hope that whatever our potential divergences of opinion, our conversation will remain on civil terms. I know that my words, read a certain way, might suggest indifference from my towards all things military. I can only give you my word that this is not the case, and hope that you will trust me.
Iagree 100 PERCENT,,,,,,
@@Briselance how about they just see it as their job, not as an emergency? The whole thing escalates to people who call 911 because the pizza has pineapple on it and they didn't order it. This is wrong on too many levels. It's the sickness of wealth.
As a British veteran I never before heard of this guy until just now... But I love him!!! This guy really gets it, he truly does....
Tagg you ever watch restrepo or koringal? Really good docs.
Read his book war ,it’s his second one his third is called Tribe. I don’t remember where I put his first book to get the title but they are great books and help so much.
strong families = strong communities = strong nation
That is not how any of this works.
That's exactly how it works. When you kill the nuclear family, nations suffer tremendously .
And when you advocate that for our society as a whole you end up being accused as a Socialist or Communist by right wing loons.
Sometimes people come back and they don't want to be a part of a family or community. So we need better outreach programs so they can realize that they do belong and be a part of something. Otherwise, they'll continue being isolated, even if their families and communities are there for them.
"Right Wing Loons" being against Nuclear Families? What are you talking about?
Just leaving the military and "rejoining" society is alienation. I'm still trying to come back into society after being out for 6 months and i'm still finding it difficult. The only common ground i found was going back to college where i met other vets like me who were feeling the same way.
This guy has a point. I haven't even been in any military, but I still see what he is talking about. Most relations that people have with each other now are shallow and sort of half arsed. Most of my neigbours never even talked to me, people in universities often spend years seeing each other in lectures and never come to know each other. Just try organizing something nowadays, anything, a party or a casual sports meet. You'll get plenty of "maybe" and plenty of "yes's" for them to stand you up. Even people who are supposedly friend don't trust each other. All of society has become somehow alienated and awkward. Its just bloody almighty sad.
I can remember being a kid, growing up in a rural community surrounded by an extended family. Everyone helped everyone out. One never had to call a repairman or take the car to a garage. Then in my late 20's I spent a summer at a remote research station in Ontario. It was the same way there, except in that situation most of the people had just recently met.
In both cases it didn't matter if you liked each other or not, you helped people and they helped you (in fact at the station my boss did not like me nor I him, but we still had each others backs). Having experienced this I find main stream society cold and difficult. In both of the afore mentioned scenarios I could count on people around me and they could count on me, regardless of personal feelings.
Living outside of those situations I have found that I am let down by friends and family on a regular basis; the very people that are supposed to be there for each other. Sadly as a result I have to admit that in turn I am less apt to be there for others. It really is a shame. It's as if modern culture breeds flakes.
@@atomsmasher9411 go to church Jesus is the answer !
All humans are natural tribal people. We all used to live and die with our tribes. Families had the support of the tribe raising children and so on. There were no jobs everyone had their own position from medicine man to warrior.
With civilization the tribe got lost and we lost our natural habitat as humans to live in.
@@joelkoffi2806statistically veterans who turn to Christianity end up with a higher risk of suicide because it makes them feel even more alienated.
Facts bro
This is why when I watch a documentary about tribes I come away feeling that I wish I was one of them.
know that feel.
Socially they are good, but they had many bad things like basic illness willing them.
Willin -> killing
+Joseph Ang well shouldn't you consider that this tribe theory could benefit us as a whole than destroy us if we stay our course?
+Winstan, It's more or less same all over the Western World. We need tribes. Humans thrive in tribes. I had a tribe, of sorts, one time. Just a bunch of neighbors, usually just barbecuing and drinking together, but also we built some sports facilities for our kids together etc. It was a good time, while it lasted. The togetherness was the key. I had to leave that tribe, after I was seduced by a neighbor's wife... so sad. Too weak for those feminine wiles, I was.
This man's book "Tribe - On Homecoming and Belonging" saved my life. He has been saying what veterans' cannot put into words, and I am truly grateful for his contributions.
OIF/OEF Veteran USMC
One of the best TED Talks I've seen. No pretentious hyperbole, not making the talk about themselves - much better standard than others recently.
Everybody is lonely in a sea of humanity ..except small tribal communities
And those who see humanity for what it is, a virus needing purged from earth.
This man is speaking straight up truth. I got out of the military last year and have been lonely ever since, no matter how much i try to reach out to people, they always seem to have a reason to not spend time together. If i dont reach out to people I probably wont get a text or message for a couple of days. It wasnt like that in my unit. On the weekends it was very rare to go more than a couple of hours without someone knocking on my barracks door seeing if i wanted to do something. And it didnt even have to be anything necessarily special. It was “hey bud you wanna go to walmart with me?” Or “i just picked up a pizza and some beer, you should come over to my room and chill”. You get out, and it’s like all of that goes away. Everyone is just doing their own thing and you just feel kind of pushed to the side.
Damn man this is the truth
I never even deployed to a combat zone, and I found it hard to reintegrate into civilian life. I can't fucking *imagine* what its like for combat vets.
Even though I have a wonderful relationship with my wife and children, I never understood why I wanted to go back to Afghanistan until I listened to Sebastian Junger and read his book, Tribe. I highly recommend.
You are so very lucky.
Same, even though I'm divorced now
Having experienced combat, it is a catch 22.
Mr Junger is correct in that we come home from combat and living among fellow soldiers for a long period of time, that would give their life for you......back to a country / home where people are self absorbed in their life of abundance. We see selfishness, fighting, and division and often we would rather be back getting shot at with friends than living among this insanity at home. It's a human paradox and soldiers will continue to check out.
Politicians deciding for soldiers to go to war have actually no real skin in the game and only a few really care.
Fact.
That's the tragedy its madness but it's a madness you have come to understand and accept more then the other madness back home.
This is exactly what happened to me and what I felt after coming home from a non-combat deployment. No therapist or mental health counselor could figure it out or help me but this man who I happened to stumble upon and 10:40pm made it make sense, a year and half later.
that was one of the best talks on PTSD I have ever witnessed
He makes so much sense, I served in Vietnam and was shunned when I came back so I kept to myself and eventually had a mental breakdown. Only when some national disaster occurs do people all come together in mutual support.
Its funny how in a world so populated and connected so many people feel so alone.
Were running away from our human nature in 1st world nations
Every reasoning. Every understanding of WHY I been feeling the way I have, had just been explained in this video.
Lyndell Chambers stay strong brother
You are not alone brother, find a group of vets, 90 percent of those I spend time with are veterans
I couldn't ever find the words to explain the feeling, but the last 3 minutes did it perfectly.
I can’t even begin to express how important this talk was. I was told I had PTSD and yet I have never seen half of the stuff that Marine grunts or Army infantry did. Sure, there were things that happened, but not everyone has a singular traumatic event they can look back on and point to for the source of their maladjustment or depression. I’ve been out for three years. Whatever short-term PTSD I may have had has largely gone away, and yet out of nowhere I’ll get so depressed. I never felt insane due to those symptoms, because I did understand where they were coming from. I only felt insane once those symptoms subsided and I still found myself crying alone over not a specific event, but over the military itself. It’s hard to comprehend. I cry over the idea of never meeting new people and making that connection, because instead I got out of the military and left them behind. I felt more of a sense of loss over people I hadn’t met than over people I see every day back home. Because even if I never met them, we were still bonded. As years have gone by, I may have become more functional as an civilian, but I’ve become more angry and bitter in general. And I know it’s because of this transition between societies. I feel like I gave being a civilian a shot and I’m just done. I’ve been looking to reenlist and I want to deploy again. When I say that, it FEELS like I’m saying “I want to go home.”
Have you reenlisted? How have you been in the past 2 years?
I'm an the army national guard. I made the decision to sign my life away as my grand father and great grandfather did. I wanted to follow my family foot steps so I went in and did it. I was gone training for 7 months, it was the hardest 7 months of my life and I was so lonely. I had my battle buddies who always cheered me up but I always looked forward to graduating and going home. I thought surely I would do great things in the civilian world in between drills and training. I came back to a new state, a new home, and a family that was obviously caring. But they didnt know what I went through so the days went by and I saw myself slacking, I saw myself upset and sleeping all day, just doing laundry or even going to the bathroom felt so hard for me to do. In the army we train to be effective, we train to outperform everyone. Surely that training would straighten my life out at home, but when I came back to w lonely new world, I fell apart. I only feel whole again when im with my unit.
To all the veterans who have served,
Thank you for your sacrifices you have made and continue to make.
You have given this country a privilege that is beyond payment.
Thank you.
Great talk. This speaker is right on the button. I'm a Vietnam Veteran, and when we returned home, we were spit at, called baby killers, called war criminals and murderers. I was treated well by my family and friends although. No wonder many of us ended up with PTSD. Being mistreated like this was worse than what I experienced in Vietnam. A few people were dumb enough to become physical with me, and I beat them senseless. I've pretty much recovered from PTSD, but there is still a lot of residual anger remaining. My revenge is that I will never forgive this country, or the people in this country for what they did to us. This is a matter of personal honor for me.
Vet Marine here, thanks for your service this country, your generation fought one of the most gruesome war
@@irvin4019 You are welcome Irvin. Thank you for your military service also.
Then change this society for the better, so we can regain that true unity
@@uriahhammock3731 well society doesn't want to change. Not for this because then everyone needs to face the fact this world is seldom nice and it doesn't mtch with the narrative most civilized countries play up. Society talks about getting better but they don't want change either. Its tough when most folks don't even want to have this discussion because then they have to look at things in another way and most folks don't really want to know the truth they say that but they really don't.
@@uriahhammock3731 right now people are comfortable behind the illusion of a safe and secure society and it'll take something horrible to change that unfortunately especially in American and Canadian societies because we always have that illusion of an ocean away from any direct threats so its tough for most people here to take threats seriously because we always view it as an away problem that would never find itself here. Those few in the military and Federal civlian agencies that do go over and see these problems try to explain it back home it mostly falls on deaf ears because that geographical disconnect tends to become a psychological one and its true till its not.
More wisdom here then I have heard in 37 years.
Beirut, Lebanon 82.
Socializing, family and faith is what brought Louise Zamperini back from alcoholism and PTSD. This guy is on point.
Getting out of the military was like losing my family. Suddenly I went from an important guy who everybody knew and we would all die for eachother to being nothing who nobody cared about. It was incredibly terrifying to suddenly have nobody to rely on or go to. I used to sleep with a gun terrified that something bad would happen and nobody would have my back. Coming home was like being left behind alone in a foreign country where you can't speak the language.
As a veteran, this is chilling
This was truly captivating/moving and resonates with me in particular. I've never served in battle/been in the military but experience emotional pain (panic attacks, depression etc) and isolation. Changing perspectives can be so key to facilitate change in a small or large scale.
Bodyknowledge 77 I served on a carrier over in Japan. When I got out I was so lonely and depressed I went to heroin. Never saw combat but I missed my department and the closeness so bad I tried to recreate that with drugs
I hate that I have so many PTSD symptoms, but have never had anything truly traumatic happen to me. My 'fight or flight' response is just always engaged, for no reason. So I hear you on the panic attacks.
*I've never served in battle/been in the military, *experience emotional pain (panic attacks, depression etc) and isolation, *Changing perspectives can be so key to facilitate change in a small or large scale.
please spare us your spoiled self indulgent wankery you privlieged american imbecile.
This is why when I watch a documentary about tribes I come away feeling that I wish I was one of them.
Thank you for your support brother
What branch do you serve in? Your pic looks like you're someone who serves. I've got 3 friends who serve.
WW2 vets had PTSD, but they returned as heroes and had defended home soil. There were jobs waiting for them and they had others that had served living nearby as so many were involved. They were needed at home and they manned up and served that role. Even those at home were part of the war effort though not putting their lives on the line. Sadly, WW2 was the last conflict that my family took part in, from the war for Indepence all the way until WW2. And, my examples for Vietnam don't work as great examples, like my uncle that served in the Airforce in Vietnam, came home and became a captain for Delta and has many millions of dollars now. I also live in Utah, where vets are appreciated and employers are happy to hire them as vets tend to be among the best in work ethic as well as incredibly sharp. Modern day vets that I've worked with in civilian roles have really set the bar high. As an employer, I'd hire a vet over most applicants any day, having witnessed how intelligent they are. Some of them have missed work for appointments and PTSD stuff, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm talking about project managers and information security officers at the highest echelon of some of the biggest businesses on the globe. They're important people, while they were serving and while they're at home. Respect.
I’m a vet in Utah and agree 100% on what you said. I love this state and how much the communities care for us.
LoL what a stupid comment wow sooooo stupids
WWII guys drank their pain away. They were functional alcoholics. Nobody talks about it. Things were kept very discreet!
WWII veterans often came back to work on farms and in agriculture. There's healing power and a form of redeeming when growing living things.
This speaks to my heart. Never had looked at it from this perspective.
WOW, I never heard of him till yesterday and I am already a fan. As someone who had spent a better part of the first decade in combat he really gets it, he knows how we feel and knows how verbally express it. I wish I would have found him years ago but I am glad I found him. He gets it he really does.
whoa
I hope I remember this talk for a long time.
Still remember it?
Still remember it?
So true. I was deployed with Central Command. My last deployment was Afghanistan (2013-2014) for 13 months and I stayed with my sister and her husband upon my return. I wished I was still deployed. "Post-deployment alienation disorder" is real. It's worse for civilians, because society doesn't even recognize us as veterans, even though we are deployed to the same places performing the same functions but for much longer tours of duty. It's surreal.
suffered from depression for many many years as a result of a society that did not welcome us home much after the Gulf War. Had real PTSD for a few years after and developed into depression because of the not caring for vets back then. There is more concern and help now and I am grateful for that.
I have learned to cope with things as I've gotten older and my depression is mostly under control. It took many years and 2 failed marriages to get here.
I am so thankful that real work is being done to combat this today.
I think there's also the simplicity of combat life. The world is much less complicated out there, it's straight forward, for an individual soldier anyway. Your only real concerns are staying alive and keeping your friends alive.
Where as back in the world every little thing is so complicated and there is so much time to dwell and overanalyze and overthink, it's just so isolating.
As a veteran. This felt like amazing counseling. Knowing other people feel the same and to get it explained to myself so understandingly.
WoW. The greatest explanation of what keeps and makes PTSD worse. I couldn't explain it to myself let alone to others or by others.
Sebastian Junger thank you. Wish more reporters were as honest and useful.
This spoke to me more than my head could ever explain the confusion for post deployment. I don’t feel traumatized, I felt and still feel alone
My dad and uncle both had ptsd after coming home from Vietnam. I appreciate this man giving voice and understanding to what veterans went through
I’m a recent veteran and I have 6 months out of the military I thought I would be happy out of the army but ever since I’ve been back I’ve fallen deeper and deeper in depression I feel lost and a sense of not belonging thank you for this video I really appreciate it and it’s given me in a way a sense of belonging
I will tell you all.
student athletes experience this the moment they switch off their varsity life. If we , just a bunch of kids who balance a life of athletic discipline with a life of academic discipline feel this. Imagine how much heavier this all is for a soldier who fought in a war, who lived and breathed discipline and brotherhood. Just imagine that
The loss of the 'Military Family' was what my husband anguished about, during his alcohol fueled depressive episodes.
He refused help, and alienated himself from family and friends, because they did not understand in his opinion..
I watch this video every few months to put me in the right frame of mind and to normalize why I sometimes feel out of place. I recommend it to veterans who are struggling. It is hands down the best explanation of what veterans go through.
I agree with everything he just said before I joined I thought as a country we were good and strong sure a few hiccups here and there now after coming home and getting out and having the veil lifted from my eyes I see as a country we are dying killing our selves from the inside out. And I'm pissed because I came home with the lose of friends and realizing they died for a ungrateful filled with hatred country and we get ground into the mud and medicated because we are "broken." My own family doesn't even talk to me or changes topics when I walk into the room because I am pissed off and I tell them the truth about things and it shakes their realities and they then grind me into the mud. The majority of my friends don't understand enough that when I get angry, instead of listening or trying to understand they shut me out and and belittle me because they don't want to hear it. To be fully honest at this point I've given up on my country It deserves every thing that is going on. It's like to two raging assholes who get together and make them selves so misserable they end up deserving each other because they both as people suck. That's how I feel about my country
That hit me a lot harder than I expected. Tnak you for such an amazing speech... My PTSD makes a lot more sense to me now and I am so grateful for that😢😢
Beautiful. Thank you.
After coming back from a deployment in the Navy, just before the Iraq War started, I went to a bar in Norfolk and there was a guy about my age looking depressed and drinking his beer. I asked him if he'd just got back from deployment too, and he asked how I'd guessed. I said that he looked as depressed as I felt. In Norfolk, many of us who were lower enlisted and didn't have cars were incredibly isolated from society. It felt better to be out at sea in a small steel town (or large town in the case of the aircraft carriers).
Later, at university, I was feeling depressed one day while having lunch, and wondered what the cause was. Then I realized that I had eaten alone for several days in a row, whereas, for years, I had always eaten with wither friends or just people I knew fairly well.
I wish there were still communities practicing stoicism somewhere in the world. All things being equal, I'd join in a second.
Stoic philosophy is still alive and well even in civilian life. But virtue is not something to broadcast, which is why Stoics take responsibility in silence. Hope that helps.
reddit.com/r/stoicism
This guy makes more sense than anything I’ve ever heard about PTSD..
I agree. everything about anxiety stress etc all exists because of some need we constantly didn't get when we had or wanted it. for vets it's the camradierie that disappered indefinetly
Thank you brother.
One of the best ted talks I've seen. It makes so much sense. Thank you
I had the best times of my life when I saw my friends everyday. Worked, cooked, ate, struggeld and slept in the same room together. I saw one of them today and when he left I felt a void deep inside. These were not "friends" these were my brothers. I really do miss those times. I know you can`t compare that to war. But the brotherhood was there and I loved it.
I have set foot in the States 3 months in the past 8 years. Every time I go back it takes about a week for me to want to leave. The mall or the movie theater are the worst.
This is a great talk. My dad was army, so I can appreciate whats being said here, and what it might mean in the future. This is the video that inspired me to do my thesis on post-traumatic stress disorder and the social influence upon it.
WOW!!! I don't have words to express what I just saw and heard. Thank you for explaining what I feel.
thank you sebastian for your words, and your understanding. thank you for telling civilians what we, the veteran community, could never put into an understandable narrative for people who have never known war. we carry that weight of experience wherever we go.
I saw his other talk, it shows some incredible insight into ptsd and the warriors life. I remember being younger, like 17 or 18 maybe. I would suffer from panic attacks in the street. Too many people, too much noise, too bright, etc. My parents would argue when I was younger, violently attack one another, etc the panic attacks went away. Im "fine" now but man, I can imagine somewhat what these vets go through. It's a shame how society treats one another, yet alone it's veterans.
He also wrote a book called 'War', if you find his talks insightful I would definitely recommend it for you, man.
One of the best TED talks ever.
Thank you Sebastian for these words, it gave me more peace in my heart.
This is one the best talks about ptsd I have ever seen. It is very precise and he comes with a lot of facts which supports his thesis. The relationship between PTSD, or any mental disorder for that matter, and our fragmented and lonely society, is never mentioned in the DSM and subsequently, therapists just do not want to talk about it. I suffer from depression and ptsd for a whole live and I cannot speak about the fragmented family and the fragmented Dutch society I live in. Thank you so very much Sebastian Junger.
Excellent talk!
In the first two minuets I was in tears. This is so touching, heartbreaking, eye opening. I really enjoyed this.
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant speech. So truthful and sad...
A revolutionary psychological discovery expressed eloquently. Well done Sebastian Junger. If society becomes united and strong and healthy, veterans will fit right in- they will be coming back home to the same kind of brotherhood and sisterhood that they had in the war zone.
Psychedelics work well with veterans for the same reason- they show the shell-shocked vet that we are all connected, all one, all a single tribe, although they do so by dissolving the ego/ the sense of separateness within the patient's mind. Psychedelics convince the sufferer that society is in its heart of hearts united.
Thank you Sebastian....for hitting me right in the feels. This talk and the other one about Why Vets Miss War, and your book Tribe have been and continue to be game changers for me. I'm a combat vet of both Iraq and Afghanistan and your words are piercing. Thank you for this. God bless.
I'm a vet. Thanks.Finally truth.
Thank you Sebastian for giving us a voice.
Just amazing information my friend. Thank you so much for your service and sacrifices for our Country.😢🙏🏻❤️🇺🇸❤️🙏🏻
I've recently returned from my deployment from Afghanistan, coming home was hard, It was hard to talk to people and family . To see everyday life and to adjust to normal routines, it's like dont they dont understand, and hard to explain to them .
Amen brother. I tried explaining to them what it was like.
I couldn't stand being stateside so I jumped on a EUCOM rotation to be on a "deployment". I miss Afghanistan everyday. The minute you leave the wire everything is game on. It's hard to adjust back to society.
I swear after coming home from Afghanistan, the weirdest thing was goin to the grocery store
He is speaking about tribes and divided societies. He is not promoting the army. It was very interesting
Thank you.
This was the best, most informative and insightful explanation I have heard. I remember hating being there at times, but I'd go back in a heartbeat. It was the stateside part of the military I couldn't handle. I never really knew what I missed so much until now.
A civilian point of view on the "everybody has trauma = we come together": When covid started, I felt more connected and caring towards random people I see in everyday life. More friendliness came from people in the supermarket. Small chats with the cashier occurred. This phenomenon has become weaker after everyone adapted to covid, but in times of stress, people reached out for connection
What a fascinating thought. This guy is very wise and clever, to look outside the established ideas for an explanation for mental illness is no easy task. Everything he says rings true, tribalism is practically etched into our dna, and creating an atmosphere of isolation and loneliness is more dangerous than we may think.
I got out 4 years ago and have felt like this consistently since getting out. I thought it was just me. Grateful he put into words whats been torturing me for years now. Now i can reach out for help and accurately describe what ive been feeling
This is an incredible talk.
there might be a truth in this. The people being deployed as a unit come back to a society of individuals who do not behave as a unit. They feel lonely, that's the bottomline. They miss the unit. They feel lonely.
I've read some of the comments written here. Especially those who have served in the military. I'm a Vietnam Veteran, and I respect the military personnel who served in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other places. We are all a special breed. We were all willing to do the dirty work that most people in this country are not willing to do.
I have nothing but respect for Sebastian Junger. World leaders have alot to learn to keep up with this man.
Respect 👍
18Delta I've literally at been covered from head to toe in the blood of those we / I killed. War is the most terrifyingly beautiful experience of glorious madness sweet sweet sadness that brings me to my knees. Drive on my brothers and sisters of war drive on!
Going through this very issue right now
Finally TED features something really interesting. This is a completely new angle to me. Thank you Sebastian!
I greatly appreciate Mr. Junger's efforts. It has put a voice to my feelings of many years.
The problem today as compared with the past is that many people are self-absorbed and lack basic respect for things they do not understand. That way, individuals in society seek echo-chambers, much like the ones created by internet algorithms. They self-categorize and tribalize, however, what they are doing is breaking up the American tapestry. People have failed to see the big picture and that there are things more important than themselves, such as maintaining respect for differing opinions and remaining united as a nation because it is the selfless, respectful thing to do because that matters more to the greater good. Instead, people of today are preoccupied with attempting to dictate change to society before looking inside themselves. If we were more introspective and less determined to bend the world to our ideology, we would by definition be more unified.
I totally understand him. I see it everywhere. I don't think that war is the correct way to unite but unfortunately when yout actually in that situation where your life is at stake everyone comes together to relate. That's what happens it makes people feel bad when other people don't care. Something bad has to happen in order to unite & some ppl this is not the case because they appreciate life. Every one walks around without talking to each other or saying.hi or how are you doing & actually getting to know someone unless they are both about to die together in a wreck or something. Society is messed up & I wish ppl paid more atttention to the important things in life. Being with people is the happiness to life. You just can't make them understand it is sooo hard to make people to just listen and pay close attention.
There are too many distractions for anyone to pay attention to things that, if they do, might be difficult to understand and/or may cause them to feel uncomfortable. Also, alot of people have large sums of money infested in these distractions and stand to loose alot of magic green paper that they believe makes them happy, or gives them the illusion of power; helps them put to the back of their minds that they're going to die just like the fishwife and the bum in the street, maybe if they collect enough of this paper they won't end up as food for the worms. It's a complete clusterfuck and the only way, according to you and to this video, to have any type of feeling of comradery is if we are involved in some atrocity together; this is a sad truth. And, i fear, that as time passes and technology improves and becomes more and more a part of our lives, that the feelings of alienation and sadness will only worsen and multiply. But, because we have all fallen into the habit of distracting ourselves, even if we notice and are able to articulate it to our friends and family, we will just fall back into the same routine, destroying ourselves until nothing remains but a few computer chips and a complete boxset of the ten seasons of friends.
+John Hawkins the amount of words both of you wrote here is more than what my whole family uses toward me in a day. The attention we give each other has deminished drastically.
Uh
True
We focus too much on being successful (in the sense of making money, success is what you think it is) rather than being selfless, being neighbourly etc. When I was in London I had to make so much effort to get my neighbours to smile back at me (I would smile for weeks when I went past them until they reciprocated). Now I'm in Jordan (middle east) it's normal for everyone to smile at each other. Deep inside, we all know what to do but we refuse to do it because of our egos. We've left spiritual ideas because we didn't find them convenient. Now we're paying the price. We're coming back to spiritual ideas slowly but we're still in denial.
Another fantastic talk from Mr. Sebastian Junger. The more we talk things out about stressful and generally crazy issues, the more we can help each other.
this is why I subbed to this channel!
Soldiers never come home they just enter another theatre of operations.
Such an inspirational speech! Thank you!
This is amazing thank you for speaking on it
One thing he didn't address, and I would be interested to know more about, is how the method of diagnosis for PTSD (as well as depression, etc.) has affected the statistics he brings up. For example, some people claim we have an "epidemic" of autism, and they tend to ascribe that to numerous causes (vaccines, processed foods, etc.), yet they often do not know that not only is autism a relatively new diagnosis, but that the diagnosis has broadened into the "spectrum" we know of today as we've discovered more and more related symptoms. This results in more autism diagnoses, since more things fall under that spectrum -- it's a matter of classification, and the raw numbers, in that sense, do not point to a new "epidemic."
Likewise, PTSD is a relatively new diagnosis, and our understanding of it has evolved over time -- certainly since the Civil War, and definitely since WWII. Same thing for depression. I don't doubt his hypothesis that our lonely society has a significant effect -- it certainly makes a lot of sense -- but I wonder how these changing definitions influence our understanding of it.
I agree, he should have adressed the different diagnose rates. Despite that I do really see where he is comming from, this theory really needs some scientific backing.
The new DSM5 has a whole section for 'trauma-related disorders' - I surmise we lump all of these into a 'classic heading' of PTSD. For example, for a child psychologist, common 'separation anxiety' seen in young childhood can be classified as chronic [repetitive, on-going cycle of symptoms] PTSD. No different than classifying all carbonated drinks as 'coke' or 'soda'...
They can test it interculturally, like mentioned about Israel, Nigeria. So not the definition is the source of the problem.
Good point my friend. We used to call it Combat stress, then called it combat fatigue and now its PTSD. The point is this: We suffer from it when we get home because part of it is that people don't understand us anymore. We feel lost.
It's not a theory talk to vets and they will tell you he is right.
He makes some interesting points and I agree with some of them. But, it's mostly conjecture on his part as an observer when he was a journalist in war zones. I totally disagree with the "40%ers" that he thinks don't have PTSD. It's virtually impossible to receive VA disability without being seen by a Psychologist or mental health practitioner. As a Vietnam Vet, I've been down that road. The Docs have the background and experience to know whether you were exposed to war stresses that are not temporary and in fact, are long term. I left there in 1969, with a diagnosis 50 years later as Moderate PTSD.
I fully agree with the homecoming experience. In 1969 the anti-war protests reached a fever pitch with Vietnam Vets bearing the brunt of it. I hid my status for years. And the mass media spread their Leftist propaganda and rumors for their own ulterior motives, increasing the hostility level even more.
I was glad to see Iraq and Afghanistan vets receiving the recognition that they deserved. America finally got it right, distinguishing between the soldier and the politicians who sent them in harms way. But I blame the so-called "Social" Media and the mainstream media for the underlying hostility extant in this country.
It's a very complex issue, particularly with suicide. How many vets had personality disorders prior to enlisting? Later on, their drug use, alcohol abuse, etc., put them in the depressed state to set them up for suicide. All in all, I think Junger touched on important aspects but left out too many associated variables contributing to veterans suicides. An impossibility, to be sure, in a limited 13 minute talk.
rvnmedic1968....I was in country too. IIFFV, Long Binh, RVN, 1967-68.
Just for the record... OEF and OIF folks don't exactly get parades either. Maybe not harassed and spit on like VN vets, but it is still coming back into an empty society.