The Strong Female Character Trope, Explained
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- Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2020
- Get a full month of MUBI FOR FREE: mubi.com/thetake (With the support of Creative Europe - MEDIA Programme of the European Union) | Whether she’s saving the day with her smarts or her physical strength, the Strong Female Character offers a fierce, independent answer to the damsel in distress. But this archetype who is, to some, a symbol of empowerment is to others a reductive cliche. Some regard her as too simplistic, little more than a marketing tool., rather than a welcome feminist corrective, resulting in characters that have been made so powerful-and so scrubbed of imperfections-that they lack any depth or development. Here’s our Take on who the Strong Female Character really is, her powers and her pitfalls, and whether she can evolve.
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No women: sexist
Funny women: sexist
Strong women: sexist
Smart women: sexist
Emotional women: sexist
Fat women: sexist
Black women: sexist
Latin women: sexist
Asian women: sexist
LGBT women: sexist
Alien women: sexist
Next episode: the female dogs trope, explained.
I think we should close Hollywood just to please this channel.
@@andreylucass si close Hollywood for good please.
The Take - PLEASE do a segment on the TV series Mrs. America. You want to discuss empowered women with nuance and flaws? That show explores female relationships with other women and the embracing / rejection of feminism all set in a historical drama based around the ratification of the ERA. There's so many themes to explore there, and any chance to discuss a Cate Blanchett role or Rose Byrne character should not be passed up.
ww shouldn't have been there
@The Take , could you please cover the issue of autism representation in the media? from the autistic robot rain man, to the autistic prodigy , to the under representation of girls with autism in the media. As an autistic person myself, it is hard for me to find characters with autism in movies, TV shows and even in books that are like me.
As Maeve Wiley would say, I'd take "complex female characters" over "strong" any day...
Yeah, we should have more STRONG female CHARACTERS not STRONG FEMALE characters. 'Strong' as in: well-written not as in: giant-stone-throwing.
Same! Glad they mentioned it.
every human beeing is complex, and thats the greatest flaw of all the movies - they show us only those character traits which is necessary for the narrative of the movie. we dont know if capitan marvel is scared of spiders or lara croft is afraid to be seen as friagle girl. we just judge them by the covers (authors who wrote them)
Depends on the genre. If I have to watch another zombie flick with a complex coward, I will choose simple badass every time.
Yes! And not necessarily always packaged in the conventionally attractive body
lol "Not like the rest of the girls" always cracked me up
Yep, it seems that EVERY trope has to unintentionally evoke "Not like the other girls" at least once! 😂😉
Girl: “I’m not like other girls”
Other girls: “Yeah, same”
"I'm the cool girl"
It"s also the case for stories with male protagonists. These stories would not have been possible with "the rest of the men'"
Fact 95% of people are alike...the handful that aren't are not who you want to be cause they have issues..on some core basis you are like most girls...do you brush your teeth.... check..ok do you poop...check..do you shower...check....check...do you eat breath talk like the rest of us..check...what's so different about you other than in negative ways lol...usually different means negative traits most common sense people don't have or try to let out..I don't think that being not like other girls is appealing
“We need women who are so strong they can be gentle, so educated they can be humble, so fierce they can be compassionate, so passionate they can be rational, and so disciplined they can be free.” - Kavita Ramdas
PERFECT. Strength doesn’t mean having the same personality as every other woman and being super confident all the time.
I totally agree with this! Gentle, refined women can ALSO be badasses, but not always in the conventional way. A real Life example might be Queen Elizabeth the Second. 👑😍
@@joycor1419 Right.
@@trinaq Yes, it's true. Joanna D'arc was also a real badass woman.
such a great and true quote
Pike: "You're not like other girls."
Buffy: "Yes I am."
-Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Movie)
Yesss they should have put buffy on here I watched that show all the time when I was younger...show not movie tho
"B-but you're...you're just a girl!"
Buffy: "That's what *I* keep saying."
(The Gift, 5×22)
I loved Buffy !!! Both of them :)
Thank you for bringing up Pike
The show literally ended with the female characters sharing their power with as many other women as possible rather than letting "a bunch of men" decide only one strong woman was allowed at a time. It spoiled us and, even with the many issues it had with things like race, I've never seen anything come close to that level since.
Hermione in the books is sensitive, caring, and empathetic - S.P.E.W is only one example - but I guess movie Hermione is shown more "brains behind it all". Actually, Luna is also another strong female character but not always thought that way only because her strength comes with being really open minded and resilient.
yes!! all of the women of hp are beautifully written and made to feel so compelling and distinct from each other
but the book completely whitewash her
@@lhayciasamiels4752 what do you mean whitewash?
The screenwriter for the HP movies, Steve Kloves🤢, always said that Hermione was his favorite character and his favouritism showed through very openly. He took away Hermione's flaws like always crying or trying to force her opinions down everyone's throat and replaced them with Ginny and Ron's strengths like being loyal and fierce. Book Hermione and Book Ginny were both a great way to show Strong female characters, yet in the movies one got turned into a flawless goddess that can do no wrong and the other got turned into Harry's girlfriend/background character.
for those who are interested "Adaptational Attractiveness: Hermione, Tyrion, and a Million Others" by Trope Anatomy here on YT is a really good video essay on how some characters have their flaws erased to be more "perfect" and likable to the audience.
Elle Woods is an amazing, strong character
I totally concur! Elle may be a traditional Girly girl, but she proves that you don't have to stay on the path that others choose for you, and that you can make your own way in life! 💜
Plus, there is theory that she is autistic, which makes her even stronger. She presents many of the major symptoms that are found in girls with autisim.
@@thatnerdylady6264 Like what?
She is Beauty AND Brains
@@thatnerdylady6264 please elaborate
The thing I hate about the 'strong female character" trope is that it values physical strength more than real everyday feminine strengths that real everyday strong women use every day.
it's sexist in both ways really.
Women are treated as inferior and weak. ( UNTRUE )
While men are forced to be agressive and "strong" ( also not true for all )
@Mo'mina Makin No, but being physically fit isn't the only way to be strong. I work out every day, lift weights to run, etc, but my boyfriend calls me a badass not because of that, but because I was a single mom, raising two kids on my own, bought my own home and car. I'm mentally and emotionally strong. The fact that I'm physically strong is probably the least interesting thing about me.
Exactly. Strength for most women is found in her energy, her emotion...
The call for "strong female characters" was for strong characters, aka multidimensional, realistic, well written characters. This got conflated with literal physical strength and we got a ton of literally strong women, with a lot of traditionally masculine traits. Of course a physically strong female character can be a strongly written female character, and it was refreshing for a while, but a lot of the time they're still two dimensional. I think this happened partly because previously a lot of weakly written female characters were physically weak, submissive and paragons of toxic femininity. The damsel in distress is typically neither physically strong not strongly written.
@Mo'mina Makin I said what I said, didn't mention a man once did I? If a woman is physically challenged in any way does that mean she is not still capable of being a strong woman? My mother died of ovarian cancer and on her death bed, she showed more strength of will and courage than wonder woman or she hulk or whoever. Not that there is anything wrong with being a she-hulk. I'm just saying most women at this point in time are not martial arts expert she hulks. They are moms and grandmas and sisters and aunties who will fight to their last breath for those they love and that is the kind of strength I would like to see in my 'strong female character' trope. You do you though.
I think that Katniss is a good example of a strong woman that isn't too one dimensional. She is the Mockingjay, which requires her to be strong and well equipped for the torment that president Snow inflicts on her, but all throughout the movies and books, she is seen being kind and compassionate while also having vulnerable and emotional moments.
I have to agree. Katniss is my favourite female protagonist, because she is a strong woman, and that strength of hers is coming from her scars, her fighting skills, her traumas, her good heart, her having a purpose and her vulnerability. With her they have showed that a tough person can fall apart too, but will find the will in herself to get back up.
The best part is shes not really aiming to be a hero personally. She was just trying to protect her sister and loved ones and was simply compassionate and caring which is what people liked about her and why they chose her to be their mockingjay
Yeah and in the books, she is portrayed more realistic. She came from a very poor background, she just wanted to survive and protect her loved ones rather than be the hero. Also she isn't juxtaposed with a female "girly" character who is meant to be seen as "inferiore" and make her as superior. All the female characters is shown empathetically rather than pitting them to each other.
The only thing i didn't like about the series is the love triangle.
@@orsolyakunkli7876 yeah i agree, i really appreciate how realistically she is written.
@@jcartist5881 100%, that’s why she is one of my favourite characters. suzanne collins really created such an amazing character
Katara from atla is strong and feminine. She is not afraid to show her emotions or cry, she looks after everyone in the gang and she is compassionate yet she is a strong water bander a warrior and she is also a healer
yes! that’s exactly what i was thinking. toph is also a great character- strong, persistent, and stubborn, but also vulnerable and caring.
Is there something Katara isn't? She is a total Mary Sue
@@Apricot90 Katara isn't a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue is a character without depth and development. Katara went through development over the show. Mary Sue's also have no flaw and sadly, Katara gets the most unnecessary hate because of her flaws (always bringing up her mom).
@@Apricot90 if any one is a Mary Sue it's Suki. I love her but her character needed a bit more exploring
I don't think Katara qualifies as a mary sue. She's so vulnerable and also learns a lot over the course of the story, a ms would just be flawless from the start
*As there are little to no strong female characters who are feminine, I feel like Beth Harmon from the Queen's Gambit is a great example of a strong, independent, intelligent and successful women who is not afraid to embrace her femininity. She is interested in fashion and perform things that may seem too girly girly if we were to follow the usual strong female character trope. I was pleasantly surprised that the writers did not make her have the whole 'I'm not like other girls' persona which I very much appreciate.(and it was kind of realistic to show that she did have many flaws, and did not know much to socialise and did not have very close connections. I found that aspect to be relatable too. And she was not exactly a good person, she was kind of an asshole sometimes,but in the end we can see her accept all that and conquer herself amidst of all these problems)*
I also loved the fact that we did get to see her vulnerable side, including her addiction and how she deals with trauma which is very rare because very often the strong females always have stone cold faces and are emotionless, and there is little to no depth to their character. So this was very refreshing to see onscreen
Yes, I absolutely concur! Beth is a fabulous example of a female protagonist overcoming a difficult struggle throughout her life, but is traditionally feminine, and not treated as inferior because of this, especially given the more restrictive time period. 💕
@@Chris-rg6nm I never said there weren't any. I just said there were not much. And I agree with you, Elle woods, Sansa etc are can also be included in the strong feminine characters list.
As I just finished watching The Queen's Gambit , Beth was what immediately came to my mind so I just mentioned her. Sorry if it seemed like I was ignoring the existence of all the other amazing and well written strong female characters who are feminine.
Could also be seen as a subversion of NLOG: Beth shows that it's not necesarilly a good thing, because she IS actually not like other girls: daughter to a suicidal mother, orphan, grew up in poverty etc. Throughout the show you can see how she desperately WANTS to be like other girls, but doesn't quite know how to manage it. I really like the middle distance she ends up as: like other girls, and also very much herself.
@@CollecTortoise that's a very good insight! And I feel like your narrative is more fitting than mine.(and more accurate tbh)
They could do a whole video on The Queen’s Gambit and how it averts most of those “female character” tropes without completely ignoring them.
My problem with the strong female character is that writers tend to take the word strong too literal and create characters who are physically strong with no other definable characteristics while ignoring the fact that strength can be presented in many different way besides emotionless ass kicker.
Precisely, it's so easy to turn a female character into an invincible Mary Sue caricature, with Rey from the "Star Wars" sequels being the most infamous example.
The one that comes to mind are Rey and Carol Danvers.
@@weightycarlos Carol Danvers is like that in the comics so it’s not a good example
Really, more male characters are like that but hardly anyone points that out...
@@steamboatwill3.367 THANK YOU
It's Misogyny if Someone thinks A Strong Female Character needs to have little to no Femininity to Make Her a Strong Character. Physical strength and Intelligence isn't the *PEAK* of a strong character(regardless of gender)
@KC I agree with your points. But you make it sound as if intelligence were (considered to be) something unusual in women.
They need to have a moment of vulnerability
@@camelopardalis84 Oh no, of course I don't mean Intelligence and Physical is only a "Masculine" trait, in my last words I said intelligence and Physical strength doesn't make a strong character regardless of gender.
@M Gagua Yes of course, There's nothing wrong with Masculine Women. But the traits they usually possess is just physical strength and high I.Q which I will never deem as *"masculine"* traits alone. It enforces the idea that women who do not possess these traits and usually show vulnerability and emotions are inherently weak which is not so
@M Gagua Yes I get what you're saying from your POV, in my last Statement I meant that Physical strength and Intelligence isn't the *PEAK* of a strong character, Regardless of the gender they identify as . I'm not a fan of gender roles or norms or what is usually considered "masculine" or "feminine". The Strong female character was made in contrast to the damsel in the distress, Showcasing that Women need to fierce and possess "manly" traits for them to be Strong characters in fiction. Physical strength and Intelligence isn't only a "masculine" Characteristic nor is Vulnerability and Being Nurturing a "feminine" trait. These all can exist in all genders, but seeing from a societal perspective where gender roles were considered a norm, The traits deemed as Masculine were considered to be the acts of Bravery while the Stereotypical "Girly traits" were considered to "Weak", which shouldn't be the case.
Katara from Avatar: The Last Air Bender, possessed both Physical strength and Intelligence but She was also emotional and Kind. She wasn't a perfect character either because she had flaws and she grew, unlike the Strong female characters which are made to be so perfect and flawless that there is no room for character development.
That's why I believe that Buffy is such a great character: she's tough, feminine, she sometimes shows superficiality (which is totally relatable), she's not a know-it-all or overly serious and even though she's supposed to be unbelievably strong she's often insecure, she fails, she loses hope, she faces many emotional difficulties and obstacles... like everybody else does. She's a REAL strong female character
I get that maybe strong female characters need to be well-rounded but I think it’s a mistake to say that they *need* to be “secure in their femininity”. There are girls out there who have more “masculine” traits than feminine ones and I think it’s ok to celebrate women they can see themselves in too. I think true strength (for anyone) can be being your authentic self
Came here to say exactly this. I found it quite disheartening that this video basically kept saying well written “strong female characters” reject masculine traits in order to own their femininity. There’s no wrong way to be a woman.
THANK YOU ! I am a girl that I just do "masculine stuff" naturally, I am not very sensitive,I don't do that for attention I think that's honestly pathetic. I am tired that people force me to fit into "feminity box" where I should cry and be vulnerable because they think that's more "feminine". And they call themselves progressive lol.
That's why I actually liked "strong female characters". I am a "masculine" girl, deal with it.
Lately, it feels like there is a questionable shift in discourse where it seems that a female character is "bad" if she isn't feminine enough and I've seen this argument being used both by progressive people like The Take and... not so progressive people like the ones on Kotaku in Action. Coding traits like compassion and emotional vulnerability as "female" only reinforces toxic masculinity.
Notice that all these "strong female characters" are always still very feminine and traditionally attractive and aren't ever gender non-conforming in appearance.
Thank you! I’m tired of my traits being treated as “masculine”. I’m me. I like guns, whiskey, and weightlifting. Why can’t that be feminine? Why is a character similar to me considered pandering or a lie?
It’s insulting.
Sometimes, it's perfectly acceptable for the strong female Heroine to let her guard down, and show her vulnerability. It doesn't make her weak, if anything, it makes her STRONGER, and more human. 😍💪
Podkayne of Mars
by Robert Heinlein.
(There are two endings. Heinlein originally wrote that she died, but his publisher hated that so he had to rewrite it that she's alive but in hospital.) Podkayne's a sweety but rules aren't meant for her.
I have two hot RUclipsr girlfriends and I am the best RUclipsr ever and YOUR savior. Good bye dear trina
YEEEESSSSS
Sure, a moment of weakness requires... Well, a weakness, but anyone who knows anything about writing knows that the right weakness in a strong character will make a character far more engaging.
One of the best movies that no one talks about is soldier with kurt russel, i know it is a male hero. But the point is he is abust to be a fighting Machine and he learns to Trust and let bis guard down, he Shows his vonerability. Such a amazing acting by kurt russel. And jassica jones is a similar character.
Like Maeve Wiley from sex education she is Strong and vulnerable... Hope we will see more well written female characters like her in future
Also, I think you ignore that Wonder Woman actually does have some of the things you want in a well-written female character. She is empathetic, does have flaws and does have vulnerabilities.
Hmm
So true, in the comics from what I can remember is when she found out a friend of hers died, she cried. It's actually not common since we mostly see cold, emotionless, warriors who don't show any sort of sorrow whatsoever but Wonder Woman was not afraid to express her loss. She's a strong demigoddess, but also very compassionate, loving, empathetic, kind, and aware of others. One of the reasons why she's my favorite hero.😍💖💙
Only in comics.
Too bad they ruined her.
Wonder woman isn't human and has super powers..we accept her caus she's a total fantasy character..shes an alien
Wonder woman doesn't fit into being a limited female character. She isn't just a strong female character. She has flaws and isn't perfect. In the movie she's actually very naive without falling into the born sexy yesterday trope. She doesn't really know how the world of men works and is really only going off of what she's been told, which is that Ares has corrupted them. She's compassionate and caring and the movie doesn't portray this as bad. She gets excited when she sees a baby(cause she was the only baby on the island), she gushes over ice cream, she reassures Charlie when he thinks he has nothing to contribute to the group. Yeah she's a superhero who is the strongest warrior around, but it's a superhero movie. That's usually the case. But she's also more than just that. Birds of Prey also doesn't really fit into this trope either. The movie portrays different instances of women being abused or overlooked by men. Yet they come together to save a little girl who is in danger and protect her. And all of them are complex characters. As far as superhero movies go DC definitely does a better job of portraying it's female characters as characters. I don't think people see this enough because they're just focused on the superhero aspect of it all.
yeah, right? i was kind of surprised that they put diana in here, given that she has a full character arc and a good amount of depth to her apart from just that she can fight well. maybe it's been a long time since the writers in the take watched the movie, but seeing her dumbed down like that in the video kind of bummed me out.
Totally agree, I think they just lumped all female superheroes into one category but WW is far more nuanced than they give her credit for
@@Delirium24 Agreed, I mean they took the time to analyze captain marvel but it felt like Wonder Woman was just a passing thought to them. Like they watched the trailer to refresh their memory instead of the movie.
WW and BoP are some of my favorite movies and representations of well rounded portrayals of women, "superhero" or not. WW and Harley have it all! Yes, they have the physical strength and toughness but also have a great balance of femininity, brains and compassion. Additionally, they are both vulnerable, have flaws and fail in their attempts to be heroic at times but by which they learn and grow from. IMO, WW and Harley belong in the same camp as Furiosa!
That's exactly what I was thinking throughout the video. Even the character of WW in the comics is not that of being just the "strong female character". I think it defeats the purpose of this video because quite ironically, they included WW into the trope without actually delving into her arc.
having gone through personal trauma, i didnt expect to see myself represented in this video
clicked nonetheless
this one caught me off guard
right! i grabbed my journal and a pen real quick... so resonating
Flávia! Você por aqui! Espero que esteja melhor
You want strong female characters? Avatar the Last Airbender and Legend of Korra!
The show's characters range from various cultures, ages, and personalities and every single one of them is unique and well defined.
yes yes yes!
Especially Korra, Toph, Katara, Asami, Lin and Zhu Li.
@@vetarlittorf1807 Don't forget about Azula and Kuvira! I loved seeing strong femininity from a villian too. We usually try to make the strong female characters heroes only, because they want them to be role models, but give me a complex, strong, female villain any day
asami is feminine and strong
@@jacksont9455 I guess, but Azula is a sadistic sociopath and Kuvira is a brutal dictator. They may be complex villains, but because they're villains, they're not as influential as the heroes since the heroes are the ones we look up to and follow.
The Harry Potter Series Watered down one of their biggest female characters Ginny Weasley from the books. Hollywood will water down strong female leads from their source material or provide only one strong female character.
And Ron Weasley.
I will always be mad about what the movies did with Ron and Ginny
@@Chris-rg6nm Also, you must have only seen the films because Ginny had alot of character in the books
@@Chris-rg6nm ginny played core roles in order of the phoenix and beyond.
@@bratzbabe187 They did Ron dirty. In the movies they downgraded him to the comic relief, while in the books he’s really smart.
I think Hollywood just took the literal meaning of the word "strong", when "strong female character" probably was supposed to mean COMPLEX, interesting and well-writtten character.
Omg exactly...smh.
Emotionally strong with agency. But that's harder to fetishize.
All of the rhetoric and controversy over this feminism issue is part of a much deeper problem. But, it is the result of the constant bombardment and culture indoctrination saturating our society from the SJW Leftist and radical feminist. Who's main agenda is to spew out propaganda through educational institutions, TV/movie industry programming, commercials, and electronic mainstream media in order to indoctrinate young boys and "shame them" of their natural masculine traits & become effeminate_ more like girls, and tell young girls that their natural femininity has no value unless they become more masculine_ like boys to gain some notion of a perceived power which they must attain. Although, from their perspective, intentions are good. However, their noble efforts have become radicalized ideology which is ripping deeper & deeper at the bottom of the foundation of our Nation and society (the traditional family). It seems the radicalist structure, leftist politicians, and feminist won't be satisfied until we find ourselves living in a bizarro world with the sexes switched completely upside down. I think that only the delusional individual could believe that a world with a society like that would be healthy and thriving?
@@vickmurray5751 sorry but this is not correct. This trope exists because feminist values have now become mainstream and studios, brands and corporations alike are eager to cash in on it. There is no ideologic motivation for re-making i.e. Ghostbusters with an all female cast (a bad idea and bad movie), the only motive is to make money. There are no SJWs spewing out propaganda in movies etc. Strong female characters, tampon commercials "celebrating women's bodies" - all of it is commercial feminism, a complete misunderstanding of the feminist ideology with the sole purpose of making money of off women. Which is why I, a feminist, hate this stupid trope.
Another part of the problem is the number of women in the cast. If there is a disproportionate ratio of men to women then you're not going to get much diversity in the sorts of women depicted.
Wow, I really thought there'd be some Buffy discussion here!
There is
Last episode, speaking to potential "Slayers" around the world:
"Are you ready to be strong?"
Gave me goosebumps.
Xena warrior princess too
I would had want a complete analysis of Buffy for every season. I mean she is a complex character. She is strong, feminine, emphatic, vulnerable, caring and sweet, someone cold, not always right, etc...
@@esbeelavallee2568 You mean empathetic?
All these tropes always have to show girls who “aren’t like other girls” as if other girls are inherently inferior for their appearance and interests. It’s so frustrating how often this occurs because you never hear guys saying how they’re “not like other guys,” they just show you. You can have a show, movie, or book with a cast of a bunch of guys and recognize how they’re all diverse characters, but then there’s that one token girl who is different and strong and just “not like other girls.” Creators should realize that writing female characters shouldn’t focus on *’female’* characters and more on female *’characters’.*
a lot of guys say they’re not the other guys with things like cheating, being sexist etc
You can also have guys who are not like other guys. Unwilling to overcome their cowardice and weakness. Like the Upham character in Saving Private Ryan.
Amen!
Mowgli and Tarzan were not like other guys Mowgli was raised by wolves and Tarzan by Apes, Superman came from another planet. Herakles son of god Zeus and Hercules son of god Jupiter. Moses was one of few males of the Hebrew children that survived because was hidden and found and raised as daughter of Pharaoh.
Can you guys do a troupe on the black character who always has to serve as the sacrifice? The black character whose soul purpose is to die in the film so everyone else can be saved.
✨ THIS RIGHT HERE✨
AKA Red shirt... 95% of the time is the diverse character.
Bonnie from TVD, is that you?
The Black sacrifice, the black best friend and the black S.O characters are so frustrating because they send the not-so-subtle message that black people are only there to ‘serve’ the White protagonist’s story.
It’s infuriating because personality, character and story doesn’t have a skin color or gender.
I feel like they do this to send a message of rebellion. The film industry has gotten a lot of push back for its lack of diversity. When they do have diversity they kill all black characters off. It's like their way of saying "We don't want to integrate".
that sansa dialogue to the hound will never leave my mind. i will go to my grave bitter and still be whinging about it when i'm in hell. hoping to see d&d there also
True. It's clear that D&D didn't know on how to write female characters beyond showing them to be physically strong or show growth by being assaulted. Again, you can debate me on this. :)
Doofus and Dipshit's logic is a female character can only grow strong through assault and abuse. That's why when people say GOT was a very feminist show, I tell them how wrong they are! They did nothing but reduce all their strong female characters to mere stereotypes in the last season.
Ugh and justifying that it was "worth it" or she would have stayed fragile and feminine, nope nope nope nope
@@sheilawidjaja7331 cersei was a very well written character .
I don’t see how her being assaulted changed that in any way .
Brienne too .
Video Suggestions:
-The Sibling Rivalry Trope (examples: Zuko/Azula, Thor/Loki, Romulus/Remus, Cain/Abel)
-The Noble Savage Trope
-The Damsel in Distress Trope
-The Ghost Trope (examples: Crimson Peak, Swamp Thing tv show, Death Stranding)
-The Exotic Lover Trope (examples: Suzie Wong, Pocahontas, Vignette from Carnival Row, Neytiri from Avatar)
Yes for the Damsel in Distress!
Oohh, I want to see the ghost trope!
I really wanna see the sibling rivalry trope !
And don't forget Mufasa and Scar, and Klaus and Elijah
@@NatashaPuteri relatable
Why though the strong female character in movies gets criticized on social media calling her boring or a Mary Sue but when it comes to strong male characters no one questions why they are so powerful?:/
Preach
Because when someone writes a strong male characters, there is no deep meaning behind it, he is just strong because we all like to see the strong characters doing cool things
But with females characteres, there is almost always a greater meaning behind it, which some poeple might take as "pretentious" or "cheap marketing", and the video kinda demonstrates it.
I agree with you tho, people love using that stupid term to undermine female characters they don't like from shows or movies they hate
On point
A strong female character is good as long as that's not her whole character than she becomes a boring caricature like live action mulan, captain marvel or rey
I didn't know this coment will offend so many people but thanks for the likes anyway
Rey is a weird case because she didn’t truly become a caricature until TROS. The first two movies, while flawed in making Rey be a tiny bit OP, still gave her plenty of personality and flaws.
Nah, Rey is not in this category, at all. Rey is a prime example of a well written character that is just female. She has a huge flaw with self worth and grows through her arc in a realistic and psychologically profound way.
@@tariqthomas9090 TROS Rey also has flaws.
What is rey
They make strong women emotionless robots in Hollywood depictions because the scripts are mostly written by men. What Quentin Tarantino did with Kill Bill was brilliant and entertaining but scary to watch a woman would be willing to put herself through so much high risk violence over getting even with a man who hurt her. I honestly feel her character wouldn’t even fall in a strong female trope but a crazy one considering this is what most males thinks about females; that they lose their minds and disrupt their peace over wanting love and acceptance over men.
I think Jessica Jones is strong. Not only physically but also emotionally. She also has her weaknesses like unhealthy coping mechanisms but she also shows her caring, vulnerable and protective side like with her sister or biological mother
I love Jessica Jones!
@@boniboni4912 yes, i do too! The Show is underrated
Yeah but MCU stans hate her character because she's flawed and not lighthearted.
@@blackdragon6 i didnt know That. This Show is the only thing i like from marvel
@@blackdragon6 Really? Aren't they the same fanbase that adores shows like Daredevil?
I mean I do agree, but Wonder Woman is a total sweetheart, something you don't usually see in male leads.
Yes! That's what I love about Wonder Woman too. She has somewhat of a childlike spirit to her. She's very "pure" in a way that most strong female characters aren't allowed to be.
She's empathetic and an ideal
Write a complex character that happens to be female. Not a female character that happens to be complex.
I would argue that Diana/Wonder Woman is one of the best representations of strong women onscreen, she's a lot more complex than this video gives her credit for. She didn't need to act like a man, suppress her femininity or make snarky one-liners to be seen as powerful -- her strength came from a place of kindness, empathy and love. I can't explain it but it made me super emotional seeing that onscreen.
I agree. I dont think she belongs on the list. She's a very kind and compassionate character. I dont think just because she is physically strong, she falls into the "strong female character" trope. Usually this trope means the character "behaves like a man", which she certainly doesnt in the movie.
I think she belongs on this list because her character is too ethereal in my opinion. She is this beacon of love, kindness, and strength instead of being given a more three-dimensional personality. She has characteristics shown in this video, like in the scene that's supposed to show she's this intelligent, cunning, and well-read chick when she says she's read all 12 volumes of "Clio's treatises on bodily pleasure," and yet she is completely clueless about warfare and how it works. Didn't she read any books about that? Because DC Wonder Woman is known for her battle experience and knowledge. Her intelligence should have been present throughout the film as part of her and not come in waves just so we can have "she's so cool" moments. So the film definitely displays some of these tropes. Plus, it's so annoying to me how her upbringing doesn't make sense with her personality as she's supposed to be a 5-thousand-year-old woman raised and trained by fierce amazon warriors but acts like a naive, cute teenager who doesn't seem very smart most of the time. Nothing wrong with Diana's personality, it just doesn't fit.
Unfortunately her appearance, specifically Gal Gadot's version, certainly falls under the "Hot Heroine" trope. No matter what substance is there (and there is a lot of substance), she is objectified as a marketable tool to appear attractive through good looks, perfectly tousled hair and a scantily-clad costume on Gadot's model body to appeal to a four-quadrant audience. Despite her emotional strength, she is ultimately commodified as a character to fit the male gaze, even if she also appeals to women.
@@tomemyscoobies I mean that's what Patty Jenkins wanted.
She wanted WW to look both strong and feminine.. In the same way Superman is depicted as tall, hunky and bulky dude.
@@wrestlinganime4life288 While that's true, that choice was not Patty Jenkins' to make. Gadot was cast by Zack Snyder and Warner for BvS before Jenkins was brought onboard, and they cast a tall skinny model. It just so happens that Jenkins' vision of Wonder Woman as a Linda Carter/Barbie hybrid aligns with Gadot's aesthetic.
Also, there's a difference between presenting strong and feminine characteristics and a marketable Hollywood beauty. Wonder Woman can be both a feminine character and depicted as a muscular Greek warrior, and has been in animated form and by various artists (Cliff Chiang comes to mind). However, Gal Gadot is merely a model. She is skinny like a model, beautiful like a model. She is an idealised female form as dictated to by corporate Hollywood that can't help but undermine the character's purported strength.
So despite the qualities of Wonder Woman's character within Jenkins' film, there is no denying that Gal Gadot's WW exists within a very narrow box of what a Strong Female Character is in terms of aesthetics. She is presented to mainstream audiences in a way that female characters have been for decades.
8:13 Her comment on Ariel is a perfect example of how the popular criticism on Disney princesses as "anti feminist" is in fact sexist. Ariel is very relatable to many young girls for her desire to become her own person, yet people often dismiss her obvious intellectual curiosity and determined personality simply because her plot is strongly motivated by romance. Most Disney princesses suffer unfair criticism too, being labeled as "weak" simply because they're not warriors, when in fact their compassion, kindness, emotional resilience and ability to inspire others are very good qualities for young girls (and people in general) to emulate.
Sure, not every female character has to be a warrior but also not every female character has to be a princess either.
Both of you are right.
@@moonlitebrite9317 I agree, my point is only that we tend to attribute strength only to very masculine qualities. I’m glad that there’s warrior characters for girls to emulate, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best or only type of strong female character.
wasn’t the cast of Alien/Aliens written without gender in mind? i feel like that would’ve been an interesting talking point
You're correct there. Vasquez from Aliens was written as a man. Captain marvel shouldn't be in this video. Marion Ravenwood should be.
Actually, for the early script, Ripley was supposed to be a man while most of the crew could have been of any gender without much repercussion but was changed to be a woman to be in accord with the times. Probably the best decision which was made because it does not matter the PR reason which could have been behind it, Sigourney Weaver as Ripley was just badass. Period
@@moya036 Thank you.
All of the rhetoric and controversy over this feminism issue is part of a much deeper problem. But, it is the result of the constant bombardment and culture indoctrination saturating our society from the SJW Leftist and radical feminist. Who's main agenda is to spew out propaganda through educational institutions, TV/movie industry programming, commercials, and electronic mainstream media in order to indoctrinate young boys and "shame them" of their natural masculine traits & become effeminate_ more like girls, and tell young girls that their natural femininity has no value unless they become more masculine_ like boys to gain some notion of a perceived power which they must attain. Although, from their perspective, intentions are good. However, their noble efforts have become radicalized ideology which is ripping deeper & deeper at the bottom of the foundation of our Nation and society (the traditional family). It seems the radicalist structure, leftist politicians, and feminist won't be satisfied until we find ourselves living in a bizarro world with the sexes switched completely upside down. I think that only the delusional individual could believe that a world with a society like that would be healthy and thriving?
@@vickmurray5751 to be honest, I think what you’re upset about is a loud minority. Yes, there are SJW archetypes that are very extreme out there, but for the most part we’re moving towards a society which is much more equal with less emphasis on gender binaries. I, personally, don’t think that’s bad. If I want to wear earrings and leggings with shorts, I shouldn’t be shamed for it or not called a “man”. The concept of a man comes in many forms, just like the concept of a woman comes in many forms. I think you have the idea that SJW-types want to invert the binary so as to empower themselves without solving the problem, but I can tell you that isn’t the case (at least in the university courses I’ve taken about the subject and in the general climate of my generations discourse).
One thing that the SJW archetype gets wrong is that the ideas they have are revolutionary, which isn’t the case. There really isn’t a big fuss about things like wearing dresses, or acting more effeminate & emotional, (which is unfortunately a trait that society restricted to women, traditionally). In reality, these things are super small decisions that ease the pressure of individual identity.
Your concept of propaganda also seems faulty because you aren’t taking into account the propaganda that has been spewed in the past. What that’s called is “heteronormativity” - though it’s more about sexual preference, heteronormativity can be applied to what you’re talking about. Imagine for one second that you were someone who wanted to express themselves differently or perhaps you had a different sexuality. The world would NOT seem like it was very accepting of you would it? You’d probably side with people *like* SJW’s since it seems, on the surface, that they were fighting for your freedom of expression. We, (or I, because I don’t want to assume) can’t comprehend it easily because I’m not gay nor am I a woman, so the world is already structured to benefit me, which means I’d have to do some extra work to identify exactly what *is* propaganda. For instance, you could argue that commercials featuring the nuclear family is propaganda for heteronormativity, which it technically is! You could also argue everything is propaganda.
Anyways, I understand the sentiment, but it isn’t some dark underworld conspiracy corrupting society, it’s just a general movement for a more equitable and equal playing field, and that means that regular straight men will feel like they’re being brought *down* but that feeling is in fact artificial.
A great example of this trope is Michonne from The Walking Dead. She’s strong both physically and emotionally and has such a deep complexity to her character.
One thing that really bothers me is that a strong male character whose main and only characteristic is his strength will never be called on it and may even be loved and praised, while a strong female character will have people (particularly men) howling "MARY SUE!!!!" at her and have every little flaw on her character design (not on her character herself, which can be good) to be picked and throw around like it make her the worst thing ever.
True
This is true, Mary sue is just a buzzword now, people will use it to undermine whatever they don't like
Luke Skywalker. Nemo. And so many more. Why can't a female character be allowed to be badass and butt kicking? I like Carol Danvers because of her physical strength but also because I can identify with being stoic. In a world with literal gods (MCU) Captain Marvel is the problem because she is too strong?
@Super Studs Calling something SJW because it doesn't cater to you is a sign of being a "nice guy" douche.
@@Ikajo captain marvel was just simply a boring movie. I went to the theater to watch it and I came out regretting I gave my money to marvel.
Its really that simple. There's no politics in my opinions here. But I can notice that the lazy corporate feminist pandering was one of the reasons it was a boring movie.
“Other strong female characters fall victim of the Trinity syndrome.” oh.
*you mean every single goddamn female character in shonen anime*
We need complex female characters, whether they are strong or not. That’s one reason Hermione is a good character.
Book Hermione is much better than Movie Hermione
@@ruturajshiralkar5566 as always, book characters are better fleshed out.
Tbh, one of my favorite aspects of a "strong female character" Katniss Everdeen, was that by the end of the third book, she broke down. She was an empty shell with no motivations after all of the losses and trauma she withstood. It's deeply human and it didn't glorify her suffering at all.
Literally anything: * exists *
The Take: Is this a trope?
Yep, the Take, proving that Anything and Everything can be a Trope since 2019!💯
The Take: Is this trope a trope? Why yes it is, and here are the many reasons why.
Whiny internet nerds: But I don't wanna listen to facts, because WOMENZ ARE SAYINGS THEM!!!!
Fixed that for you.
@@ChristophBrinkmann calm down, it's just a joke. Don't be a simp
Well, they have infinite tropes to talk about. Have you ever checked the tropes website?
@@GabrielRodrigues-ro1ep it's not funny
Yes!!! Thank you for including Chihiro. Miyazaki is amazing at writing girls - so glad I grew up watching his work.
Yes!!!
The problem with people that claim they hate Mary Sues is that they are often the same people who condemn female characters for having "unattractive" flaws. She has to have flaws that they are comfortable with...
The inclusion of Wonder Woman is interesting to me, since the Golden Age Amazons were both feminine and powerful. They're all about compassion and working together.
A tag to this is the 'Everyday Guy is the Chosen One, so Strong Female Character who trained their whole life for this and is incredibly competent has to train Loser Protag so he can save the day and date her'
Sarah Williams from Labyrinth is one of my favorite strong female characters. Not only does she have character growth, but she defies a villainous male authority figure. Not to mention she taught me that you can balance your childhood fantasies with adult responsibilities without letting go of your childhood or your fantasies.
Caroline Forbes from the vampire diaries is an underrated and is an amazing strong female character she is strong,and powerful along with being kind and empathetic and also not have a 'not like other girls' factor and also manages to be human and have flaws and a good amount of depth she's not perfect that's seen but her character arc is incredible and extremely deep .she truly is a true strong female character.
I love caroline and bony they are strong smart and empathetic
Agree so much
Caroline was one of the best characters in the entire show. I hope she can return for at least a cameo in Legacies S3 (I can't wait for her interaction with Lizzie).
I agree with all of these things, but the complaint that the female lead is without fault or too strong is an argument I never see when talking about movies with overpowered male leads
EXACTLY! Great that someone else sees that, THANK YOU!
We need movies with more than one strong woman and with strong women who aren’t always the perfect example of the male fantasy in terms of beauty
Also, what about characters who aren't strong? Characters who try but keep failing? Who can be only referred to as being strong in their values and to a degree in their willpower?
@@camelopardalis84 Cinderella (a brilliant character) says hi
@@colonyofrats4193 Maybe I should re-watch the Disney film after so many years. And maybe I should do so in French, given that I know the story really, really well and both want to and also should brush up my French.
Or should I look into that story some other way than with the Disney film version? What do you think?
All of the rhetoric and controversy over this feminism issue is part of a much deeper problem. But, it is the result of the constant bombardment and culture indoctrination saturating our society from the SJW Leftist and radical feminist. Who's main agenda is to spew out propaganda through educational institutions, TV/movie industry programming, commercials, and electronic mainstream media in order to indoctrinate young boys and "shame them" of their natural masculine traits & become effeminate_ more like girls, and tell young girls that their natural femininity has no value unless they become more masculine_ like boys to gain some notion of a perceived power which they must attain. Although, from their perspective, intentions are good. However, their noble efforts have become radicalized ideology which is ripping deeper & deeper at the bottom of the foundation of our Nation and society (the traditional family). It seems the radicalist structure, leftist politicians, and feminist won't be satisfied until we find ourselves living in a bizarro world with the sexes switched completely upside down. I think that only the delusional individual could believe that a world with a society like that would be healthy and thriving?
Male and female leads are always going to be conventionally attractive, which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with masculinity or femininity. People want to see pretty people fall in love or save the world. For the character and comic roles and villains you can have a wider range of looks.
I always read/see a lot of people tal sh*t about feminility, you know something like "Oh, why a strong women "never" is represented being "feminine"? First, in my vision, femininity is not a single thing; do not exist an only way to be feminine. Second, if you are a female, you are feminine (as a female, I can't be masculine); every woman has their own way to be feminine. If you are a woman and like to use make up you are feminine. If you don't like it , you are feminine. If you like to have long hair, feminine. If you just like short hair , feminine. If you are skinny, feminine. If you are muscular, feminine. You understand folks. There is no wrong way to be feminine; all ways are amazing and valid.
The same thing is valid for masculinity.
P.S: English is not my mother language, so sorry if I wrote verbs, pronouns or even nouns wrong.
Thank you, I totally agree with you ! I think that "femininity" and "masculinity" doesn't really exist. A man that doesn't fight and is sweet is not masculine ? Yeah we agree that's bullshit. He still is masculine.
@@mississipi1103 ) this.
i like how you are beginning to incorporate characters from foreign films as well!
kind of a weird move to lump wonder woman in with the idea of an only-strong, sexy heroine when her armor is fully functional and based on historical greek armor, and her entire character arc is journeying to a new world, overcoming her naivete, becoming disenchanted, and then deciding firmly that she will fight to uphold love and peace. lumping her in with captain marvel and trinity (whom i love but the matrix greatly underserved) just because she can fight well is flawed logic; her bigger power, shown time and time again, is to inspire others and pull the best out of them through being surprisingly gentle, thoughtful, and nurturing. calling her "a beautiful amazon in spandex" is kind of an insult. maybe the take should take a second look at their writing, because their issues with wonder woman seem to boil down to an odd bitterness over her being beautiful and good in combat--even though she's a lot more than that.
My favourite channel! Love your analysis
Boys season two tackles the representative contradictions, depending on who is interpreting the trope, beautifully.
That scene from the Boys where the girls really do get it done is so so satisfying, especially after that horrible Endgame clip.
@somethingcooliguess Out of curiosity, what did you find horrible about the Endgame clip?
@@finndelimatamay1983 1. It was so contrived that only the female characters where there. They just all show up and start strutting?
2. Captain Marvel didn't need help. She was flying and blasting through ships while the other women were on the ground in hand to hand combat (and Valkyrie was only 1 person in the air).
3. There was no history of these characters interacting or established bond so the unity felt manufactured.
I read that this scene MIGHT have worked if Black Widow had the gauntlet, and I agree. At least she had history with some of the characters and would actually need their support to be successful. Plus we saw how personally she took the loss of people during that time--she needed to fix this. As a woman, I get really conscious of the cringeworthy lazy ham-fisted feminism. It's worse knowing there are great portrayals of female power possible.
Wonder woman is a wonderful strong character and not only that she's also feminine and sweet and genuine. For you guys to lump her in with female characters just because she's a hero is near sighted at best and sexist at worst.
Yay! Asked for this so long ago. Happy to finally see this topic being covered :)
I like the example of Sofi from Howl moving castle. I like her, one of my favorite female character.
I think what Hollywood misunderstands when they hear we want to see “strong female characters” is we want a woman who acts like a man but what we really want is a woman that women can see parts of themselves in. Some of those traits may or may not be labeled as conventionally masculine or feminine but that shouldn’t be the ultimate goal.
ETA: On the other hand, sometimes I just want to watch an overpowered female character beat up a bunch of people just as much as men want to see that with their favorite male characters. 😂
Pretty much...
All of the rhetoric and controversy over this feminism issue is part of a much deeper problem. But, it is the result of the constant bombardment and culture indoctrination saturating our society from the SJW Leftist and radical feminist. Who's main agenda is to spew out propaganda through educational institutions, TV/movie industry programming, commercials, and electronic mainstream media in order to indoctrinate young boys and "shame them" of their natural masculine traits & become effeminate_ more like girls, and tell young girls that their natural femininity has no value unless they become more masculine_ like boys to gain some notion of a perceived power which they must attain. Although, from their perspective, intentions are good. However, their noble efforts have become radicalized ideology which is ripping deeper & deeper at the bottom of the foundation of our Nation and society (the traditional family). It seems the radicalist structure, leftist politicians, and feminist won't be satisfied until we find ourselves living in a bizarro world with the sexes switched completely upside down. I think that only the delusional individual could believe that a world with a society like that would be healthy and thriving?
“I am a warrior...but I’m a girl too” - Suki
All of the rhetoric and controversy over this feminism issue is part of a much deeper problem. But, it is the result of the constant bombardment and culture indoctrination saturating our society from the SJW Leftist and radical feminist. Who's main agenda is to spew out propaganda through educational institutions, TV/movie industry programming, commercials, and electronic mainstream media in order to indoctrinate young boys and "shame them" of their natural masculine traits & become effeminate_ more like girls, and tell young girls that their natural femininity has no value unless they become more masculine_ like boys to gain some notion of a perceived power which they must attain. Although, from their perspective, intentions are good. However, their noble efforts have become radicalized ideology which is ripping deeper & deeper at the bottom of the foundation of our Nation and society (the traditional family). It seems the radicalist structure, leftist politicians, and feminist won't be satisfied until we find ourselves living in a bizarro world with the sexes switched completely upside down. I think that only the delusional individual could believe that a world with a society like that would be healthy and thriving?
Never expected to see Spirited Away as a primary example in the video. I love this channel so much
Could you please do a analysis on the character Mabel Pines, and how Mabel Pines in many ways could be seen as paving the way for animated female characters being more layered and also beong great comical characters and not just the 'girl' or the group.
It's telling how many of these women are Meryl Streep
I've seen nurses calm down patients when it would otherwise take five orderlies to settle them. They did this merely by being in the room. Femininity was never a weakness.
I would love to see more representations of this on screen.
The most underrated female hero is Rita Vrataski in Edge of Tomorrow. Talk about a badass.
Love this channel!!! It's the best ever 💕💕
I thought you would talk about Anne with an E rather than just showing a few-second snippet … There's so much to say that could have been great arguments for your topic
I think the reason why the strong female character trope doesn't bother me, is because it shows how women have to change themselves to make it in a man's world. Whether we like it or not it's relatable to be the only woman at your job, class, or even your favorite hobby (like a videogame). Simply being the only woman surrounded by men is something we all have to face or deal with sooner or later. Yes we have to build an armor and change ourselves to protect ourselves. It's an unfortunate truth we have to deal with in a patriarchy. I'm envious of the men I work with that are allowed to get emotional and angry and it not affect their career. I have to be tougher than a man, smarter, wiser, and the most leveled headed one in the room. If not then my flaws are scrutinized and I'm reduced to a "female stereotype". What I personally had to get over is believing in myself even when no one is listening to me. Trusting my own medical opinion even when my input is being blatantly ignored. The biggest change I've made is not letting men belittle me. Hopefully one day we will be equal but until then we have to support each other and raise our daughters to have self esteem.
Great.
Your workplace doesn't allow you to get angry? Wut.
And I don't think your male coworkers can walk away consequence-free after punching a hole in the office wall.
And seriously don't let fictional movies and shows dictate what you're supposed to be.
@@dithaingampanmei All of the rhetoric and controversy over this feminism issue is part of a much deeper problem. But, it is the result of the constant bombardment and culture indoctrination saturating our society from the SJW Leftist and radical feminist. Who's main agenda is to spew out propaganda through educational institutions, TV/movie industry programming, commercials, and electronic mainstream media in order to indoctrinate young boys and "shame them" of their natural masculine traits & become effeminate_ more like girls, and tell young girls that their natural femininity has no value unless they become more masculine_ like boys to gain some notion of a perceived power which they must attain. Although, from their perspective, intentions are good. However, their noble efforts have become radicalized ideology which is ripping deeper & deeper at the bottom of the foundation of our Nation and society (the traditional family). It seems the radicalist structure, leftist politicians, and feminist won't be satisfied until we find ourselves living in a bizarro world with the sexes switched completely upside down. I think that only the delusional individual could believe that a world with a society like that would be healthy and thriving?
All of the rhetoric and controversy over this feminism issue is part of a much deeper problem. But, it is the result of the constant bombardment and culture indoctrination saturating our society from the SJW Leftist and radical feminist. Who's main agenda is to spew out propaganda through educational institutions, TV/movie industry programming, commercials, and electronic mainstream media in order to indoctrinate young boys and "shame them" of their natural masculine traits & become effeminate_ more like girls, and tell young girls that their natural femininity has no value unless they become more masculine_ like boys to gain some notion of a perceived power which they must attain. Although, from their perspective, intentions are good. However, their noble efforts have become radicalized ideology which is ripping deeper & deeper at the bottom of the foundation of our Nation and society (the traditional family). It seems the radicalist structure, leftist politicians, and feminist won't be satisfied until we find ourselves living in a bizarro world with the sexes switched completely upside down. I think that only the delusional individual could believe that a world with a society like that would be healthy and thriving?
Very inspiring! Love your videos!
The best content on RUclips! Thought provoking and inspiring that debunks the toxic tropes society expects us to follow! Lots of love and strength to you guys!!!
One female character sadly missing from the montage of 'surmounting her own challenges not by adopting masculine traits but through rising to the occasion, persevering and growing' is Rose Dawson from Titanic
This reminds me of an old Tumblr that said something like this; screw writing strong characters, write flawed characters, write emotional characters, write characters that have quirks, hobbies and eccentricities. Write characters with fears, insecurities and more. Just write a good character period. As mentioned in this video, the problem is that in trying to write a strong female character they want to basically turn them into a literal goddess that's unstoppable because of the many years female characters were written as LITERAL prizes for the male characters to win. But that created the opposite in that a character is so strong it's almost like a caricature of what people think a strong female character is. People use Captain Marvel as an example and in part I agree but the writing didn't give her enough room to do more than "be strong". Her appearance in Endgame along with the other female heroes was very satisfying and in a way earned. It's a very tricky thing to make a character both "realistic" and strong regarding of gender because then people say "that character is too OP"
This was beautifully done. Thank you so much for making this vid :)
You hit it out of the park with every video you put out!
So good! Thank you for this! The collective strength is so important and we see it in the theory of the Heroines Journey that exists in contrast to the Hero’s Journey. Also it reminds of something I started thinking about last night: the genius girl: Hermoine, Shuri in Black Panther, Journey Jangle (in Netflix’s Jingle Jangle). The girl/young women who exhibits intellectual strength, but it’s usually for the betterment of the group...which I suppose could be good or bad, but yea!
I don't like that Elle woods is not really considered a strong woman I wish there were more characters like her that are strong because of their femininity why are princesses not considered strong? Usually they're called weak
That's largely the influence of feminist critiques of fairy tales which entirely fail to understand the symbolism and view them far too literally.
Wow, that was an amazing analysis with just great examples.
Y’all talked about one of my favorite female character. My girl Katniss. 🥺♥️ Hopefully you can make a video about the books/movies soon!
People tell me I'm crazy for thinking this, but I think the Academy may have given Jennifer Lawrence the Oscar for the wrong movie. I like Silver Linings Playbook, and the character Jennifer portrays is interesting, but I think Katniss is a far more complicated character to play than people give her credit for. The so called love triangle had a lot of people in a tizzy, but the truth is, Katniss doesn't know how she feels or even what romantic love is because since she was 11 years old she's just been struggling to stay alive. She doesn't have time to think about romance, she's too busy trying to feed a family and keep them from starving to death. When her father died, she didn't expect her mother to go all catatonic. No 11 year old would, they would expect mom to be the adult in the room and find some way to take care of the family. Katniss was forced to be a responsible adult at way too young an age, that's not normal. So her emotional growth is stunted. She never got the childhood she deserved. But she's not some cold badass killer although she does have strong survival instincts. She has strong feelings. She wants to protect Rue as if she was her own sister, and actually feels guilty that she failed in this duty. She feels passionately, deeply, about family and justice. Her impromptu memorial ceremony and very public 3 finger salute to honor Rue is the real start of the revolution. Because she did the one thing that always brings down dictatorships; she showed compassion and respect for someone she had been told was supposed to be her enemy, someone she was supposed to fear and hate. As soon as the announcers said there can be more than one survivor she immediately thought of helping Peeta. She feels vulnerable and insecure when she's talking to Cinna. She has no idea why anyone would like her or root for her. She's trying to cope in the only way she knows how. She's actually a very complex character and I think Jennifer actually nailed that performance in showing all these different sides to Katniss.
this was beautiful, brought tears to my eyes
I started full-on crying by the true strong female character section of the video, and I can't even explain why
When it comes to writing strong characters, they don’t need to be able to kick ass or be the smartest person in the room; they need to be able to change and grow.
I loved this video. You truely acknowledged it all. Really interesting and objective!
Thank you so much for adding Chihiro in this. I love the character so much it makes me teary that she's appreciated ♥️
Elle Woods, Cher, Chihiro, Jo March, Jane Eyre, Rachel Green, Phoebe Buffy, Monica Gellar, Maria (from the Sound of Music), Spencer Hastings, Hanna Marin, and Esmerelda are good examples of strong females with quieter strengths. Claire Bennet, Caroline Forbes, Bonnie Bennet, Prue, Phoebe, and Piper Halliwell, Katara, Toph, and Ty Lee are also well written and relatable female characters in Sci fit and fantasy stories. They have powers, but their personalities are still realistic. I also felt the same way about Lava Girl, Wonder Woman and Nausicca. It's a shame only strong females with powers are bought up and not the realistic ones with quiet strengths like Jo March and Elle Woods are never acknowledged as strong female characters.
I really wish they didn't hammer on "the Masculine Traits" too much. Some of us women are big, tall, strong, broad, tomboy, present masculine...but might like glitter, flowers, cutesy things, and pink. Or dark, freaky, weird, disturbing things. We cannot help we present masculine, or sound masc, or dress masc. There is room for us, too. Too much binary.
This was great! One of my favorite this far! I love how the strong female lead is slowly becoming more complex and accessible at the same time. I love the strength in the ordinary, like what was mentioned for Spirited Away, because I truly believe it is our weaknesses and vulnerability that make us stronger and more relatable. And I am really happy to see more female leads that acknowledge and accept their femininity instead of just trying to be "one of the boys" to be consi strong. That comes from having more women at the table (directing, producing, etc), before we would just get a man's definition of a strong female (similar to the topics discussed on the cool girl trope video) but this is not the only definition nor is it fully accurate.
On another note, I still really want to see more videos on the women of scandal!!!!! Seeing a few scenes from the show here just reminded me of that. Also, Anne with an E too...in fact I think I will go rewatch right now! 😂
Amazing episode, as always
Imo cinderella is the REAL strong character. Ppl understimate the strength behind going through all that trauma and still being kind and hopeful.
You're so right
I love this.I often find myself represented more within the traditional feminine characters who overcome hardships without being a hardened person. Characters like Buffy and Elle Woods always seemed more accurate portrayals of strong women to me. I always saw Cher as a strong character but could never understand why until this video made it clear. This was a very well made video.
Love your reviews!!!! Thank you 😊
Such content is what I'm here for :)
All these years later and clueless and legally blonde female characters remain some of the best female characters I've seen on film and they will always stay like that no question about it
This is why I like Cinderella. Her compassion and kindness to her friends saves the day. If she wasn't nice to the mice or Bruno the dig than she would have never had a happily ever after.
And I really like Belle's vulnerability in Beauty and the Beast. When she asked the beast to come into the light it was a really good moment
@@melodyclark1944 Thank you. The original Disney princess get way too much flack about being weak and unassertive. Well excuse me if I don't want a female lead to be punching all her problems in the face.
LOVE LOVE LOVE this. I live your videos 😭💖
I love your message. It really resonated with me❤️
I don't think BoP is pandering. The female characters presented are all different ages and have different life experiences, their motives also differ and, because it's a mostly female cast, none has to stand for all women. The movie brings Harley low and she doesn't really come out of the joker's shadow until later in the movie, where she truly affirms herself. That scene in endgame where all the female characters (some of which have been sidelined in favor of men's stories) conveniently come together is pandering. It's not organic at all because these women had never interacted before lol. If they'd developed meaningful female friendships throughout 18 movies, why not, but instead they give us one strong woman per movie who often also doubles as love interest (except for black panther obviously).
What about : Buffy Summers, Willow Rosemberg, Cordelia Chase, Anya Jenkins and Fred Burkle from the Buffyverse ?
Or in broader vampire fiction, Mina Harker. Virtually every adaptation with the possible exception of Coppola has done her dirty. In the book, she started investigating the Count because of what was happening to Lucy, and the party just got lucky that her fiancé had been to his castle. Said fiancé is also the one who gets diagnosed with hysteria, instead of her. She's smarter than the average horror movie protagonist, canonically even having compiled the book you're reading. And I still maintain that she was the second most competent party member after Van Helsing, who had the unfair advantage of having seen vampires before.
Thank you!! I haven't seen this explained better.
Strong means complex, and I’m so happy they explored that definition
I am ready for more of that
My only thing with your theory on this trope, is you're still putting the female lead in a very specific narrow box. Just a different box.
I think capable yet still flawed is a very large box, in that it's all human beings
It puts women like me in the box of “oh a character like that is just a man with boobs, real female strength is in their compassion and ability to uphold other women.”
Like.. No. I exist, and my traits may traditionally masculine but that doesn’t mean they are masculine. My father cries more than anyone I know and I’d say he’s manly.
I love the Take, but this episode puts women in a corner.
@@asmith7896 I don't think they're saying women can't be masculine. The problem is saying the only way a woman can be strong is by being better than the boys at everything. Instead of "strong female characters" they can be female characters with different abilities, strengths, weaknesses, passions, and drives.
25% of this should have been about Buffy.
Found weird we did not get a reference to Xena Warrior Princess. Yes, probably Xena herself was not the best example but I have always loved how Gabrielle raised from the maiden to a strong warrior on an equal footing to her love interest while maintaining her smarts and empathy
I want to see the Evil Blonde trope. I feel like this is a common theme to see in movies.
Isn't that just a femme fatale?
Hmm if my memory doesn't fail me I think they talked about it in the Dumb Blonde trope video? I'd recommend checking that one out if you haven't.
Would that be the Mean Girl?
@@moya036 No because the trope is both male and female.
@@clartblart3266 I saw that video and no they didn't.