Strong Female Characters Will Ruin Your Novel (Writing Advice)
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- Опубликовано: 23 май 2024
- Here's how you write a great female character that captivates readers.
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⏲️ TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Introduction
00:30 - The problem with strong female characters
02:30 - Three levels
04:16 - The importance of flaws
05:40 - Compelling character arcs
07:00 - A worthy antagonist
07:34 - Multi-dimensional
08:37 - Strength beyond muscles
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Strong female characters are not bad because they are strong, but because they are nothing but strong.
Well said!
In a stereotypically masculine way.
And they are that way because everyone knows they can't compete with men physically in reality. They HAVE to be that way, far above the average women just to compete with the average man.
Yep. There is nothing wrong with strong female characters, just the way Hollywood has been writing them.
@@Nerdcrusher You and your type are the exact reason why the large, rabid "anti-Mary Sue" coalition is a farce.
A great quote I remember "we don't want strong female characters. We want strong characters that happen to be female"
I love using Korra from the Legend of Korra as an example for this
That's what strong female characters was always supposed to mean - who is at fault when the assignment is so widely misunderstood?
@@LuckyOwI777Suki too
And strong female characters need not always be strong on male terms
@@ejtattersall156 I don't know what that means
How to write great female characters.
Write a character, not a plot device.
so wise, so true!
Isn't it true about MALE characters. too? And somehow people don't seem to have a similar problem with them being all perfect and uncomplicated...
@@Faolandia Such as?
@@bad-people6510 Superman, off the top of my head. And from a different genre... Ethan Hunt, for instance? In fact, most action heroes are not particularly complicated, because character development is not that important in action movies. Only it suddenly becomes so when a woman is involved. And as for an example of double standard from this very thread: people bitch about Hermione Granger.... knowing too much! While all the time we have alongside her Harry Potter, the boy wonder, who practically wins the Triwizard tournament even though he was too young to enter. And he also saves Fleur's sister while he's at it. Think about it - Fleur is the chosen champion of her school... but little Harry has to do her job for her. And hell, I do not grudge him that - it's that kind of a story. But to say that it *Hermione* who is too perfect in this movie, well, that's just pure bovine excrement. And uncomplicated as well? The "mud-blood" who is obviously overcompensating in her magical studies is less complicated than little Ron Weasley? Really?
@@Faolandia Well see, right from the start you've messed up. It's not that there's a lack of characterization. It's that it's very poorly done. You, like these writers, are misreading these characters. Superman, when dug into is an incredibly deep character who has the advantage of a good upbringing, but this isn't enough to make him morally right all the time. Superman carries the BURDEN of perfection. It is not his natural state, he has advantages, yes, but he also has the responsibility of being unbending and incorruptible, because the thought of him being anything less is horrifying. Superman is a walking, talking, flying, blue spandex doomsday machine and he knows it, so he can't afford to slip up, he HAS to engender unwavering absolute trust, or else he does harm simply by being. Captain Marvel can be a planet wrecking terror machine all she wants and we're expected to applaud her for it regardless of her actions. This is also a problem with specifically the Zack Snyder Superman, and people called it out and hated it.
Ethan Hunt, admittedly not the deepest character but what is there is good. He does have emotional issues, self doubt, a guilt complex, but most importantly is likable. He's not going out of his way to be morally indignant, even to his allies, because he is not a vehicle for the writer's own view point like you see with these more modern, TYPICALLY female characters. They are right, because they are always right, because they are written to always be right, and everyone else just needs to learn how right they are. Ethan Hunt almost got his girlfriend killed because he let his anger get the better of him and almost threw a bad-guy out of a plane. And it was treated as a failing on his part. Carol Danver destroys strangers' property, commits criminal battery and grand theft auto against innocent civilians, and we're supposed to be on her side because... we're SUPPOSED to be on her side.
As for Harry Potter, I'm not familiar enough to argue the point, so I'll substitute a character I'm more familiar with that seems to fit in with your complaints, Wesley Crusher, from Star Trek TNG. A very similar character, outperforming people more qualified and better trained than him, without adequate explanation. People hated him. He's pretty much the most reviled recurring character in pre-Kurtzman Star Trek history, BECAUSE he shared many of the qualities these female characters posses now. He is the go to Gary Stu.
Going back to re-reading the Harry Potter books for the first time (audio), it's striking how Hermione was edited in the movies to lean into "strong woman" compared to her book counterpart. She is given many of Ron's lines, for some reason, so that she's not only exceptionally well-read, but she knows wizard slang and culture she really shouldn't have cause to know. Like when Malfoy calls her "mud blood." In the books, Ron explains this insult in the shack while puking slugs while Hermione had no real response to being insulted, but the movies give her this explanation AND the offense associated with knowing the meaning.
It always kinda bothered me in the movies (and to smaller degree the books) how the muggle-borns seem to know more about Harry Potter than Harry Potter did. Realistically Hermione would not see what the big deal is about Harry and why he is so famous in the wizarding world.
OMG I just posted a comment saying that I don't think movie Hermione is a good example because they tried to turn her from complex into "strong". I'm glad I'm not the only one. lol
Not to mention she literally kidnapped and imprisoned a journalist at the age of 14 lol the girls a nutter
Same here. In the books, Hermione's weakness is physical combat. Against the troll (book 1), she was too paralyzed by fear to have instructed Ron on how to say the levitate spell properly. Against the Whomping tree, her battle skills were in wanting need. And this makes for a more realistic person - strong intellectual prowess and pursuits, weak physical prowess and pursuits.
Personally, it doesn’t seem that out of place in the movies because Hermione is always applying herself to study and practice, and she is very observant and clued in to her surroundings. She’s constantly using her vast knowledge bank to navigate everything which gives her practical confidence and level headedness in otherwise high stress survival. (People who don’t understand something or are lacking in knowledge about something tend to react with fear and panic more often, like Ron when they were stuck in the three headed-dog trap door). So her knowing about wizard slang and about Harry Potter, or being calm under pressure in most situations, is honestly not really out of alignment with her character in the movies.
When I've written my horror and fantasy novels, I never strive to make my female characters "strong," instead, I want to write "brave" women characters, because courage is both a choice and a struggle to achieve, and that choice and struggle makes the characters interesting and ones the reader will be invested in.
You go watch the first Season of the TV show Fargo, and you tell me if the main character (I'm talking about a man, btw, his name is Lester) is brave
I am an avid watcher of Fargo and I would consider Lester Nygaard, played by Martin Freeman, to be a miserable coward.@@futurestoryteller
My mom may not be so brave when confronted with a big spider or rat, but she was brave enough to handle having not only 2 kids with massive life threatening health issues, but at least 1 grandkid with them.
@@zeehero7280 I'm sure she'd be happy to know she worked so hard to raise someone who thinks equality of the sexes is "stupid"
In my opinion, what makes the character strong is not bravery, but her intellegence. If she is not extremly brave, but she can analyze the situation and come up with a quick solution... tjat the perfect strong character
True strength of character is not just power and attitude, like we nowadays get.
Right.... They think their attitude is something to measure and only way to express their power
I'd love to see more stories where physically weaker characters do not prevail by violence but purely by other qualities like cunning, knowledge, originality, building alliances with others etc. Think Shining, where Danny overcomes his murderous father by luring him into the maze. Think Spellbound where Ingrid Bergman's character, a psychologist, is able to talk the villain out of killing her. I also very much liked the female characters in Indepence Day. They didn't fight the enemy, but they all were courageous, nurturing and intelligent.
The original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles had a scene where April is forced to defend herself in a deserted subway station. She tries her best, but her failure is simply a forgone conclusion given the circumstances, and even she knows it. That scene always stuck out to me as the epitome of what a strong woman can be. Susan McClain in the 1st Die Hard had even more of that same energy.
Did both women have to be "rescued" by a man? Sure. But, it was their strength and determination that swung the odds in their rescuer's favor in the first place: April by delaying and distracting her attackers for just long enough to let Raphael spring his ambush, and Susan by continually confronting/harassing the villains whenever she could so her husband could do his thing.
I'll die on the hill defending this thought. The hardest characters to write are these kinds of female characters because they require nuance and a lot of depth to really showcase their, for instance, emotional intelligence. It's easy to write off a kickass female superhero, but it's hard to write off an ordinary girl with a brave heart.
Not sure if you’re big on books but there’s a book it’s called fourth wing (it’s like ya) I haven’t fully read it because it is heavily leaning on inappropriate but from what I did read the female character is actually physically weak (she was born prematurely or something and she gets deuce easily) and she gets sent off to war. Haven’t read that far but pretty sure it matches what you’re saying
@@tkraid2575I have a character who epitomizes that in my series. Her psychology is realistic and a big part of her development. Recovering from trauma. Facing fears. Growing stronger, mentally, and potentially becoming the most significant protagonist in the series. Thought there are things she cannot do, there are things she does that no one else can as well.
I will add that most "Damsels in distress" that people cry about aren't actually damsels in distress. They just haven't bothered to understand the story. Cinderalla and the Little Mermaid are the two who people often claim are one dimensional characters who are only looking for love, but they really aren't when you actually do a character analysis. Ariel and Cinderella are both wonderfully complex characters who show incredible strength and persistence in the face of everything going wrong around them. Even Belle and Aurora are actually far more complex and well rounded characters than you expect. I recommend you re-watch some of these old Disney films, rather than just working off your memory of them.
Haven't watched those old disney movies but the tv cartoon show actually upends the whole thing and Princess Ariel is actually the hero that goes about helping others and there's no romance in it. Shes actually positioned as Triton's heir.
There’s also the fact that a lot of movies don’t equate needing to be rescued with weakness
And by the way the man in these stories is a mere prop.
@@ejtattersall156 Not always. Prince Eric in The Little Mermaid (1989) is a well-developed character and The Beast in Beauty and the Beast (1991) has his own arc (though to be fair Belle rescues him in that movie).
@@matityaloran9157 You can tell yourself that, but nobody watches those for the male character. From Jane Austen (who I do love) to Disney, there are three male characters, The Prop, the Problem and the Prize. In Beauty and the Beast as well as Pride and Prejudice, the Prize and the Problem are the same man, the Beast/Mr. Darcy.
This is why character wise Book Hermione >>> Movie Hermione. They removed a lot of her complexity to plus her up with many of Ron's good character points to make her stronger.
Agreed. I didn't like how the movie Hermione showed strength in battle as well as physical strength. In the book, she her physical/warrior abilities were a stark contrast to her intellectual abilities. And this made her more realistic. She wasn't the best at thinking quick on her feet in battle.
and the irony is that it was a guy who made movie Hermione "stronger" vs the original author being a woman. JK saw a bit of herself in Hermione, but she made her real (kinda of a know-it-all, eager student, but was some clear blind spots at times)... and the screenwriter... just literally made sure she actually DID know it all.
Interesting that you use Belle from "Beauty and the Beast" under your "Disney Princess" comments... considering she was one of the first to actually break the mold.
I say Ariel also does breaks the mold herself, which annoyed me when the remake tried to make her “stronger”.
@@brandonlyon730 A 16-year old who's desperately in love with a man she's never even met.
Yeah, that says "Strong female character " to me. 🙄
@@teabearchurchill5600 That’s a pretty shallow way to look at her character, her entire song part of your world was her desire to wanting to live and explore on the surface world long before she even seen Eric. I can just a well say Belle is just some boring town girl who wants to read books all the time and waiting to meet her “Prince Charming” while ignoring every other part of her character.
@@brandonlyon730I strongly disagree mostly because Ariel doesn’t really change herself and instead everybody else around her changes and as well missing a point of the original story.
@@ilovecats3795 The Disney version of Beauty and the Beast barely follows the original story and misses the authors point of that story as well, so I don’t see why that criticism should be against the little mermaid. I don’t know what you mean by “everyone changes around her” the only people you can argue change were Sebastian and Triton and to be honest they were for the better, the former was mostly just a stick in the mud forced to do a job he didn’t want to do but was forced by his king to do it, and Triton was pretty much a bigot who while has good intentions was not even willing to listen and understand his own daughter’s point of view. why should Ariel have to change to accept her father’s point of view and not the other way around? Belle also never changes either and everyone else changes around herself.
My favorite way to define a character's flaws is to make a list of their strengths and then imagine how (and why) those could drift into extremes that result in mistakes that can inform the plot.
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Thank for you saying this. Some people need to understand that it's not that we don't like female characters, we do, we just don't like bad writing. A good example of a good strong female character is Eowyn from Lord of the Rings. SPOILER: We don't just like her because she killed the Witch-King of Angmar. We also like her because she looks after Merry, she tries to lead even when it's hard, she stands as a beacon of hope to the people of Rohan, while struggling internally on whether or not she is worthy to do so, and when she finally breaks out of her cage and decides to go fight the host of Mordor at Minas Tirith, we cheer because she finally had the courage to do what she felt was right even if it meant facing death.
I imagine the following scene. Guy sits at his computer. On the wall, there are posters of Kill Bill, Lara Croft, Sarah Connor with a machine gun, Eowin killing the Witch King, etc. I'll leave the rest of the wall to your imagination. He goes arguing on the internet.
*Guy*: Captain Marvel sucks.
*Some other guy*: You just don't like strong female characters.
*Guy*: Obviously.
@@kangirigungi I wonder why anyone would think this proves anything. In the 1950's a little show came out in America called Star Trek. Remember this is right alongside a growing civil rights movement, and the height of the Cold War (against Russia). Episodes feature a mostly pacifistic space-traveling organization with scientific purpose; the bridge of the ship specifically is fully race integrated, supporting characters are extraterrestrial, yes, but also black, Asian, and _Russian._ The episodic show revolves around fighting ignorance and delivering to their audience socially conscious messaging.
Bearing all this in mind when a new show was announced in the current political climate with a black female lead who happens to have a "man's name" how do you think the "true trekkies" reacted?
I am not singling you out here, but you have to understand that a contradiction in terms is not of itself proof of enlightened thinking. On the contrary ignorance is often contradictory, it's the same reason you don't defeat irrational beliefs with rational arguments, those beliefs are not born of coherent thought. If their thoughts added up in a way that made sense, it wouldn't be ignorance.
I know this boomer. When she was a kid her parents would take her to visit this guy who hated black people... except for Diana Ross. So his friends would jab and tease him and say "Hey, if you're such a racist how come you like Diana so much?" He would just shake his head and eventually say "Nah, she ain't black."
@@futurestoryteller"True Trekkies" were entirely willing to give the show a chance, and only turned against it when it turned out to be utter garbage.
@@BatarianBob Sure it was. I bet confirmation bias had nothing to do with that reaction at all.
@@futurestoryteller I take it you haven't seen it?
If "the galaxy was destroyed because an autistic child screamed really loud" sounds like great writing to you, I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I hope that more people will catch on to this distinction, not just in stories but in life women don't need to be men with boobs to be interesting and respected nor do they need to be a female stereotype. Most people can and should be somewhere in the middle.
Men with boobs 🤣well said
That’s still irrelevant, are men allowed to be strong in the traditional sense and women aren’t? Always ask yourself this: if a man would be written the way the strong female character is, would it still suck? The correct answer should be yes. Sex is irrelevant unless the specific aspect of sex is included in the writing.
If men are allowed to be power fantasies, women should to. If women aren’t allowed to be power fantasies to be well written, same ought to apply to men. Simple
@@terranorth you are right, and I think the way this was presented by both Jed and I have the assumption that many writers that try to write a strong female character do so as such a dominant characteristic that it makes them feel flat. There are probably many male characters that end up feeling flat because of only focusing on making them strong but in my experience it doesn't make it to the front of everybody's attention as much my guess because it often doesn't make it past editing for male characters.
I think the reason is because people often react to issues by polarizing to the other side. So people see that women are being pigeon holed in the limited view of feminity that is often portrayed and so they try to distance themselves from that view by making them a caricature of masculinity ignoring the depth of the in between, that mentality, I think, is the pitfall this video is trying to help people avoid.
Yes a male character that is just strong is just as flat as a female character that is just strong but for whatever reason it often seems to be less of a problem
@@VandarAlden yep good analysis
@@terranorth Yeah, it would still suck. Almost all of the most critically acclaimed male characters are not power fantasies. They're incredibly complex and have huge flaws and it's the same with female characters. Flawless characters are always boring, regardless of gender. The problem is that a lot of storytellers (especially ones in Hollywood) feel as if they have to make female characters 'strong'.
I’m glad many content creators cover this topic, but it doesn’t matter how many know because screenwriters will follow the exact same formula. They believe strength is in ties with their understanding of masculinity, and so they believe the only acceptable strong women are those that pummel others to the ground or belittle them, with no sign of weakness.
Its because they doesn't care about the story and more about pushing Feminist agenda and politics and demonize every bit of masculinity in men. 😅
Or who remain incredibly stoic and blank- faced (a la katniss)
ironically enough, the same traits they infuse into their female characters that make them so boring are the ones they despise in male characters
Content creators cover this topic to get hits and make money off toxic males who can't get laid.
@@carolsimpson4422 how is Katniss stoic? There are so many times when she had a breakdown or other strong emotional reactions.
Funny there is so much criticism over female characters, yet I see no videos about "strong male characters', even though these have literally dominated for millennia.
Just started doing some writing of my own. It’s low medieval fantasy with quite a few important female characters including a witch and a queen. So I know I need to make sure I don’t fall into "Strong Female Character" pitfall.
Remember to make them characters... interesting ones that you (yourself) always want to write for, be around, and are interested to get to know. Even if everything about them isn't saintly, or sunshine and rainbows.
Not just filler to move from one page to the next.
@@Whimsy3692yep, as a bookworm I enjoy when even the protagonist has some imperfections, like they could be quite rude or ignorant in some ways, it makes it seem life-like, not your average “goody-two-shoes-I’m-gonna-save-the-world” character, but a protagonist whom is also human, they have a soul, and different personality types scattered across their mindset.
Imperfections make a character perfect.
Most of the time we don't even get 'a male character but with boobs', most of the time it's just 'a BORING male character but with boobs'. I swear it's like authors think they don't have to try as hard with characterization or backstory or character arc if they give the girl the ability to fight, like a girl being able to fight is such a novel concept that it's gonna carry the whole character, like that by itself is gonna be enough to hold our interest. It's borderline insulting sometimes, there's a great variety of male characters throughout all of media, with so many different arcs and personalities, but "strong female" is just a woman that can fight, ANY woman that can fight, no thought to her motivation or her personality or her other abilities.
If at least they would depict the fighting properly and tell about what makes its mastery interesting... but no, most of the time it's basically. "She enters. Punch. Evil man dead. Sheers."
This is the only interpretation of this "trope's" existence that isn't saturated with bias. Having said that people are often reasonably comfortable with an abundance of boring male characters. Like I'm sad for anyone who think John Wick is this elaborately masterfully written character because he loved his dead wife and the puppy she gave him. There are other things that contribute in that direction, to add interest in the four films (and counting) but there aren't a LOT of them. Nobody seems to care that those films are way WAY more about setpieces and worldbuilding than character or storytelling.
I love perfect stories and characters. On the topic of female characters, i neverooked at gender until america started forcing it . Kill bill is one of my favourite movies and i always imagined that i would have her courage , it never crossed my mind that its important whether if its a boy or a girl
Quentin Tarantino himself marketed the movie as empowering for young women: try again.
I like most of everything you stated except the part where you say that Disney princesses are damsels in distress. The only one that fits that category would be Aurora. All the other princesses were very much their own person. Regardless if the prince helps them along the way, they were never just damsels in distress. Mulan was a complex character, Pocahontas as well, belle was no damsel in distress, Jasmine fought alongside Aladdin. I think they were all complex in their own way, even if they had help from the male co-star.
Yes, when writing my novels, I wrote female characters, but there’s a reason for it.
My science fantasy dinosaur novel did feature four youth girls as protagonists, and are trained as monster slayers which influences anime, but in the second act, the protagonists are completely powerless and, after they were rivals despite being a team, they had no choice but to work together to survive in the midst of a conflict between an ecosystem of powerful prehistoric animals and lovecraftian monsters. Because this novel is the exact antithesis of RWBY, and the protagonists are also the exact antithesis of the show’s titular protagonists.
My high fantasy alien invasion novel did feature a fairy princess wearing a power suit when the world comes under threat by an extraterrestrial invasion, but she isn’t happy about being a killing machine as she’s a pacifist when one of her royal families are assassinated and then all are killed by the aliens, and throughout the story, she didn’t use her suit to single handedly defeat the aliens as she had new friends with their own ingenuity and the natural world as her backup. Because this fantasy novel is based on Slavic mythology, with Vilas the most famous mythical beings in Slavic folklore.
I'm glad you had a (one) reason for including female characters, otherwise I'd have to assume something crazy like "Because that's normal, since they are people." or "You can't just exclude over 50% of the world population"
Enjoyed this. My debut novel is in the process of editing now. The main lead female character is a strong character. And she appears along side her brother who is more calm and reflective. As the story develops they are both tested. She finds that she is an obedient lap dog for her male employers while her brother despite the fact he can never win at least tries to defy them. At face value she's the strong one but she says at his actions " I've never loved him more or been more proud of him this was how I tried, and hopefully avoided the one dimensional character.
Nice. I wish you luck for your book.
That’s lowkey why I dislike SJM’s main female leads. They’re practically perfect with a singular weakness that doesn’t actually falter them story wise. (I can’t speak for her crescent city series) but I find the only reason I read through her ACoTaR series is because her side characters are so compelling and you want to know more.
my sister likes that author. At least her "Throne of Glass" series. I like the first book and the prequel book. After that, the protagonist got too mary sue-y for me
Ummm.... the same could be said for a lot of writers if you also include strong male characters. For example ALL of the Sword of Truth books by Terry Goodkind his male lead, Richard, is NEVER wrong. I think there might be a single book in the series where he makes a mistake, but in the end.... he was still right. Making a character *too* much _anything_ is bad writing - whatever gender that character identifies as.
The bit about the worthy antagonist gave me some inspiration for my story. Something that's been on the tip of my tongue for a while but I just could not clarify until now. Thanks Jed!
You're welcome, Michael!
Movie Hermione was not as complex as book Hermione. For some reason, movies scriptwriters and directors are worse at feminine characters than authors.
I dunno how I feel about this. I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I don't like how the term "strong female characters" has devolved into a meme for "woke 2 dimensional characters". I have always liked strong women characters. Lara Croft. Sarah Kerrigan. Eleven. The Bride. Ripley. Jean Grey. Daenerys Targaryen. Clarice Starling. Trinity. I could go on and on about how much I love overpowered women, but what's something they all have in common? Depth. They are more than boss ladies. They are imperfect and have weaknesses. What you described is not a strong female character. I don't care what Wikipedia defines it as. We should collectively stop referring to poorly written characters as strong. That's my only real issue.
Same
The problem lies in the way the term “strength” is defined. In all forms of media, the most common depiction of strength is in the traditionally masculine way, so we end up with kickass, sassy, “strong, independent” females. Storytellers need to realise that there’s so much more to being strong
Tolkien had it down pat (of course he did). Just look at Eowyn. Sure, she was a proficient sword-fighter, but she was so much MORE than that.
Stop thinking of us as “strong females”. Start thinking of us as people, with all our weaknesses and strengths and layers.
Physically speaking, strength is a resistance to tension, and is linked to movement. There can't be strength without challenge, nor courage without fear, or change without being put beyond one's limits.
Rather than strength, I prefer to say "skills" or "capacity", meaning how much is the character able to deal with the challenges of the story compared to other.
My issue with usual depictions isn't really that the character is "strong", but that no thought are put into what strength means, how it is built and how it's used. For example, I'm a big fan and practicionner of sword fights. So when I see a female characters with no proper preparations doing stupid moves to beat several guys that are obviously stuntmen ordered to move as if they were drunkards with balance issues it makes me boil with rage.
@@benjaminthibieroz4155 That's a fair compromise. And definitely - there's no way a female can beat several muscular males at once, it's just a fact. When I mentioned the term 'strength' in my above comment, I was referring more to strength of character, being strong as in having power, influence, courage, bravery and all the rest. But totally agree with you
@@benjaminthibieroz4155you got serious problems if that makes you that triggered lmao. It's fucking fiction at the end of the day.
@@CantRead1 As an author, I'll never accept "it's just fiction" as a valid excuse for doing crap.
This was a great video, happy to see this. As a writer, I’ve recently been looking over some of the characters I had, male and female, and changing up their personalities a bit and making them more interesting and this video really helped.
I love a complex variety of female characters. Intelligent and brave, but also romantic and sweet. Elizabeth Benett, Eowyn, Cinderella, Belle, Anne Shirley, Jo March, Arwen, Jane Eyre, etc… are all different character types, but all characters to be admired…for individual reasons.
I agree with all that you talked about, except when you call the Disney princesses one dimensional or just damsel in distresses (especially using Belle as the example 🤨). Strength in character can be found in kindness and optimism, not just fighting battles. 😌😌
Thank you for digging deeper for good character strengths!
I'm glad you mentioned things like a wife supporting her husband. There's alot of courage and sacrifice shown when a character is not the one on the front lines but supports the one who is. (An excellent example of this is Katrina and Roran's relationship from Paolini's Inheritance books).
Or other strengths such as someone like Belle from the old beauty and the beast, who actually is very strong and noble. For her elderly father's sake she sacrifices her entire life to the confines of a cell in the castle of a monster. That kind of courage can be harder than picking a fight.
Those are very good points. I'm definitely keeping them in mind!
I totally agree with your message here. It is absolutely true that the problem with strong female characters isn't that they are strong... it is that stoic strength is their only character trait. They aren't allowed to be anything but that or else it is somehow insulting women. I also like that you pointed out the difference between superficial and deep character flaws. I've seen plenty of Mary Sues who are cute and clumsy one minute to "give them character" then the total opposite later as they save the world without an ounce of clumsiness.
However, I don't agree with you using movie Hermione as the good example. I loved Hermione in the books, but in the movies they essentially turned a complex female character into a "strong" one. They changed her lines to make her more perfect (she was made to say various "cool" lines that originally belonged to Dumbledore, Ron, and others). They removed her frizzy hair at movie 3 to make her more stereotypically attractive (thus making her shocking entrance at the Yule Ball totally pointless because her appearance didn't actually change). And worst of all, they made her act out of character (look at her cautious behavior with the time-turner in book 3... then look at the bold things they made her do, all of which conveniently worked out, in movie 3). On top of the bad writing of her movie character, Emma Watson developed into a poor actress. She takes huge breaths before every line then forces her words out in a way that is totally unnatural. She stands stiff with her upper body leaning forward as she speaks which is also a sign of forced dialogue. She shows all the signs of an amateur actor who uses force to add emotion to her delivery. Movie Hermione should not be anyone's goal with writing female characters. Book Hermione? I can support that.
I have truly enjoyed your videos; the title did throw me until I read the second part. Well done.
Love this video! Hits the nail on the head.
The most well written female fantasy character for me is still Alanna of Trebond. She is a badass, the best sword fighter in all of Tortall because she practices twice as much as her male colleques in her training to be a knight. And she learns to accept and embrace her female side and her magic during this years.
Mulan (in the cartoon) was another type. It was clear she was the physically weakest in her troupe, which ended up being a troupe of misfits because her commanding-officer despaired of her abilities anywhere else (not knowing her sex).
But she figured out how to do the job where brain could overcome brawn.
This is the first time I've ever seen a comment about Alanna! I loved her!
which book is it?
@benjaminthibieroz4155 Alanna is from Tamora Pierce's quartet Somg of the Lioness
Every time I watch one of your videos, I feel like I have to start my novel over from scratch... 🤯🤯🤣🤣🤣🤣 It's tiring but I am learning a ton, and for that, I can't describe how grateful I am. Keep it up. What you are doing is amazing! 🥰🥰❤❤
Thank you - glad it's helping!
Thank you for this video!
Strong female characters should be avoided urgently, and vice versa: strong male characters who don't show emotions should also be avoided.
Interview your character about their childhood, their family and relationships, and how all of their past experiences affect them as an adult.
Family is an excellent way to create interesting storylines: family secrets, relationship problems, the death of a loved one which destroys a family...
Remember that we are the sum of everything we have experienced so far. A character is no exception to the rule either. What he is today is the sum of his entire life in the universe in which he lives. This is what will make your character unique. And this approach is as important for a female character as for a male one. Perfect characters should be avoided at all costs: they are not real, they are boring as hell, they do not represent humanity at all, they do not show how to overcome difficulties and do not inspire anything, they have no conflicts to settle since they are perfect.
A story is about change, an improvement of being through an intermediary character. It is a journey that teaches us about ourselves, about our nature, about the capabilities that we can do. If a character is perfect, how do you want to become attached to it?
The strong character that does not show emotion can be used... As an antagonist. Think Darth Vader. Of course, as the story progress, we may discover his or her emotions and his or her weaknesses. It works best for supernatural antagonists (the "unstoppable force of nature" kind), like sith lords, demons, evil gods, terminator, faery queens and dragons.
I was thinking about Eowyn as you gave your pointers so it was a shock to see her all of a sudden
Movies absolutely turn Herminone from complex to just strong. They removed all flaws and nuances, and it effected all other female characters by consequence
Because the screen writer loved Hermione more.
Agree. The way Hermione took on the Whomping Tree was absolutely ridiculous. The book Hermione was an excellent intellectual warrior, but not a very good physical warrior.
seriously, you deserve so much more recognition
This video is perfectly timed for me. I have been struggling with giving my protagonist some dynamic and interesting flaws. The best I had come up with is, based on her upbringing she would likely have abandonment issues, which is good but I wasn't able to readily translate that in to actions/beliefs that would have concrete negative impacts on her in the story. This video actually helped get me unstuck.
abandonment issues is a good (and sadly common ones). I guess you've done research. For those you read, what I can quickly think of:
- translates to a fear of rejection that leads her to overcomitting to gain people approval, to the point of going exhausted trying to meet up false expectation, telling lies to not make them incomfortable that ending up having consequences.
- growing jealous and envious of people she thinks could stole the attention from people she cares about (thus losing potential support and eventually feeling guilt).
- distrusting people she fear would abandon her thus constantly checking on them and intruding in their privacy (potential for conflicts and detrimental early discoveries)
Not only your analysis but the comments here have helped me understand the concept. I've been perplexed by this for too long. I want to write some strong characters but always ended up realizing that their strength felt hollow, that there wasn't any weight in it.
Two perfect examples are Abigail Adams from HBO's John Adams and Mary Woodhull from Amazon's Turn: Washington's Spies, both housewives during the American Revolution. They actually embrace their roles as pillars of support for their husbands, yet I found them to be among the best-written characters in their respective shows and prove pivotal to the protagonists' success without diminishing their contributions at all. It's so much more satisfying to watch depictions of that uniquely feminine nurturing strength than watching women trying (and effortlessly succeeding at) being men, all while complaining about how men are holding them back.
There is no "uniquely feminine nurturing strength" - their societal roles are culturally defined, you're literally talking about ostensibly real world characters from well over a hundred years ago. It should also be pointed out how you don't blink at calling them support. This particular brand of "strong female character" you're co-signing will never be anything but second fiddle to a man. It's one thing to suggest writers try to work within the cultural and sometimes biological limitations of femininity, it's another thing entirely to advocate for not questioning the boundaries of those limitations
@@futurestoryteller Very good point. I do love Abigail, but in "John Adams" she is a supporting character, not a protagonist. This kind of character does have a place in popular culture, but we also need female characters who are the heroes of their own story. For a female character cut from more traditional cloth who IS the central character, see Mrs. Brisby from The Secret of NIMH, or Mrs. Frisby from the original novel.
But you know who else is a complex and interesting female character? Jo March. "I'm sick of hearing people say love is all a woman is fit for. I'm so sick of it."
@@kelleyceccato7025 Yeah, I really liked the recent Greta Gerwig adaptation. All you need for a strong female protagonist is the same ingredients for a strong male one - agency and complexity, plus they should be, you know, the protagonist.
Not that this is _too_ specifically related to this thread, but as someone who has been saturated with film and TV most of my life (mostly TV) It's weird and truly hysterical to see so many people act like women aren't written well "anymore" since the film business is typically doing better than ever at the task, especially with regards to agency. They range from Lady John Wick in "My Name" and to a lesser extent "The Americans" to the disaffected feminine like Peggy in Season 2 of "Fargo" or the dual protagonists of "My Brilliant Friend" - all the way to I-don't-know-what characters, like Amy from "Beef" and Charlotte from "Babylon Berlin."
Of particular note is that these characters avoid being pigeonholed. Fargo, a show with strong female characters across a pretty wide spectrum is certainly not a show telling women to "know their place." However without necessarily spoiling anything the narrative concludes that Peggy's dissatisfaction with life is largely a destructive impulse.
And they *are* almost always unhappy with the status quo, because stories are about change, and change doesn't happen when people with agency are satisfied with the way things are. Going against the grain naturally tends to mean bucking societal expectations when it comes to women, specifically, because on the extreme end they have only been expected to support men and have babies anyway. I see a lot of remnants of that attitude in these responses
@@futurestoryteller I love Babylon Berlin!
@@kelleyceccato7025 The fact that the show has beeen successfully renewed for a 5th season, even after losing it's German distributor, but Season 4 hasn't even dropped on Netflix, despite already having aired all the way back in 2022 is a war crime
Awesome video, thanks
How is it going with contest? Is there any approximate date of results coming?
I don't know if other people do this, but when i write female characters, I don't treat them much differently than male characters. Every chracter has one or two defining traits and a few flaws. If the character is a girl, so be it. If it is a boy, so be it.
For the most part I do that as well, but I think motivations are different enough that it is worth considering to make the character more relatable.
Yea true
"Strong female characters tend to just be men with boobs." Finally, someone said it.
Another great video Jed!
Nicely said!
Another thing that marks a "strong" female character as poorly drawn is having her get angry at a male character for coming to her aid, lecturing him on how she can take care of herself. When you try to make a point, you lose the point.
It's great that there are so many male writers to teach all the other male writers how to write women. Like where else would we learn it from?
Imagine going around telling people that strong male characters will ruin your story. Like you can make the case all you want that woodcut male characters are just as bad, but the internet turned _this_ into a meme and inevitably led to yet another video with this title. Like there is something exceptional about bland female heroes.
I agree with the first part
I just also want to add that male strong caracter are also bad if they are a Mary Sue
I don't think female strong caracters are bad at all unless you make them some perfect Mary Sue
Unless that then there is no bad strong female caracters, and not just a female but also a male
Brooo! Your videos are so good!!! New sub
Disnay princesses are *not* traditionally flat and boring. They are hardworking, patient, kind, clever, troubled, and brave. They aren't prizes for the men who marry them ... the *men* are prizes for the princesses! Rewards for their resolute morality in the face of challenge.
This is true
Amazing video! Hmm..i just..kinda struggle now..on how i shall improve my MC. ( female Vampire..) i still, want her to be able to fight and use magic, bc i just like that. But...now i need to learn how to do it...maybe she has to start running away first? Loose a couple times to learn? And...ask herself..for what is she fighting for and..does the cause really justify the means...
I busted out laughing, when he used Rey as his video depiction of a "Mary Sue".
Great video 👍🏻
Superb content
There will come a time when Abrams and Kennedy are stripped naked and forced through the streets of Los Angeles - or, better, Tulsa - pelted with rotten fruit whilst Sarah Palin marches behind them intoning the words "shame, shame, shame"
Funnily enough there have been so many more male Mary Sue characters in regular media who can do everything and look amazing, yet the term is female, because it only becomes a problem when women are like that.
@@carolinef1508 right, I think this is an issue because there are way less female actors who fulfill the role of 'Mary Sue'. So it sticks out more.
It really is bad taste all around, and a poor choice for ANY character.
@@ZachScottB for any character, but people created a term for it when there were a few female characters like that and I see no videos complaining about "strong male characters"
Nothing against you, but I think this says a lot.
@@carolinef1508 well that's obvious.
Same reason why we don't see any female defensive-line-women in the NFL.
Since the dawn of time, males were supposed to be strong. That is the role of a man. It's not better, nor is it worse than the role of a woman.
It's ok to have different roles. Both are needed in different ways.
This video was perfect for a character I'm putting in the novel I'm working on
Strong is perfectly fine. It's when you confuse "strong" with "narcissistic asshole" then you get shit instead of a story.
Yes that what I am saying, that's why the title of the video infuriated me, becs I was thinking he is speaking about the real definition of strength, not the narcissistic, perfect Mary Sue one
Oh, irony of picking Belle as the damsel in distress.
That said, I hope everyone realizes that you can apply the same advice to men, which is the point. I never noticed the contradiction thing. I just did it because humans. 😊
Awesome video Jed. It feels like we've forgotten that there is an equal amount of power in femininity. Personally my favorite exploration of masculine and feminine power is in The Northman, with Amleth being a wild beast of physical strength and his love Olga being a cunning witch. They both have different kinds of strength, and only in coming together do they achieve the great things they do. Coming together and becoming more than the sum of their parts, and further emphasizing that through the vision of their future child, really cements that.
Thanks - and I totally agree. 'Masculinity' and 'femininity' (which are always evolving concepts, anyway) both have their own unique strengths and interesting elements. The Northman is a great example - that was my favourite movie of 2022 and Olga is an excellent character and great complement to Amleth.
As a female, its come to me very easy to write a good female character. my problem is to write a male character who isnt the pathetic character who gives the woman everything she want and also not a sexsist bully.
Make your Women characters equally as flawed, then they all share a dynamic within the story that flows better. In The Office Michael Scott was a cuck and showed throughout the first few seasons he’ll put himself in the most pathetic situations in a relationship as long as he had a women that’ll be with him. Jane was equally as pathetic for being his boss, knowing how silly he was and still having a relationship with him. He was like a guilty pleasure but was the best she could’ve gotten at the time because she was unhinged as well and had no self control.
People still loved their dynamic because they both had the sh*t end of the stick and were both flawed in their own way. There’s nothing wrong with writhing a pathetic male character but if it’s the only character in the series that has conflicts within themselves while the female character is flawless and only dealing with conflicts rooted by him then it takes away from her and actually makes the male character more interesting. But if both characters have conflicts within themselves, it creates tension and situations you can implement in the story which can start an interesting dynamic between the two.
I have a female character that is very good at fighting and could be considered ‘strong female character’ but that’s because she grew up in a bad place so she had to fight to survive and she analyzed a lot of fights so she got good at knowing what someone’s next move was, she uses her smarts instead of her strength in fights, she also could seem a little bland beacause she acts tough and stuff but that’s cause she doesn’t want to get hurt and on the inside she’s really just scared, is this still considered a bad ‘strong female character’?
No, that's what we're all talking about. Have you not been paying attention?
You seem insecure.
Although, channelling your insecurity into your fiction can probably serve you well as a writer . . .
For a character like that, you'd actually be adding depth by making her cold and closed off emotionally because of how traumatic her past is, and her character growth can be overcoming that dark past and opening up to others. As long as you are able to write her with some level of nuance and character development, she could become a likeable character, but know that if she lacks an inner struggle or doesn't progress past the strong and stoic lady boss, she won't be liked by the reader. Which is fine if she's not meant to be liked, but even for villains, you don't want them to be one note. There should still be brief flashes of vulnerability or uncertainty in herself even if she's one of the bad guys.
I think it depends on what role she plays in the story. If she is an anti-heroes sort then the bland can be turned into a mystery, with the heroes needing to solve the mystery of what makes her tick so she stops getting in the way. If she is a side character, maybe make her tough act grind against another character. This opens up the chance for other characters to call her out for just acting tough, which can be taken in any direction. If she is the lead, that could be bad. find some flaws and double down on the tactics of the fights.
If she is scared inside but acts tough, I recommend some sort of over compensation for this. Like acting impulsive and brash trying to fake confidence. Maybe have a villain that manipulates her idea of what she has to do to look tough in order to trap her. Or even worse, tricks her into doing his dirty work. Something like arranging a fight with her and his rivals that she knows she should back down from but can't with pride intact.
I don't think a strong female caracter is bat at all, if she has a personality and has struggles(aka isn't a Mary sue) instead I don't see any problems
Nobody cares that Rey grew up in a bad place and had to fight to survive. You're not going to be immune to this by coming up with excuses because the people who complain about this will just ignore them. It's rarely a rationale based argument to begin with.
You combine the people who unbiasedly want to see better written female characters, with the people who are unconsciously influenced by the biases of others, with the people who are maliciously biased; and the worst most toxic extreme version of the argument will survive every time, until everyone gets sick of hearing about it and nuance is temporarily reintroduced into the cultural zeitgeist.
Strength is used to measure a trait, like Strength of will, strength of resolve, strength of compassion, physical strength etc
The other major flaw with "strong female characters": a decided lack of any interest in romantic interaction with any male character. She considers males to be beneath her notice or to be her natural rivals. Romantic subplots are an oldskool trope, but men and women still have interest in heroic stories with some sort of love interest.
No, I think it was always ironically the opposite. They claimed not to care about romance but the main plot would always be a love triangle. romance isn't always bad, but it is definitely more overused than not.
So I ended up trying to make a “complex” female character recently
I haven’t given her a name yet but I’ll call her Odnokae (which isn’t even a real name or word but it sounds cool). She was raised in a rather big and rich family. Her parents were strict and prioritized success, believing that money comes from hard work, dedication and studying. Because Odnokae was the oldest child, her parents had high expectations for her and wanted her to be a good role model for her younger siblings (Because this is a big family, Odnokae has quite a few siblings). However, Odnokae takes this expectation to high measures and idealizes her goals. She wants to be the perfect mentor and role model, being wise and smart, powerful and friendly. This results in her constantly overworking herself and tiring herself.
(Note that my character is 17-18 years old)
As a big sister, she has to be responsible and help out her siblings when they need it. Because then again, there are quite a few, this becomes difficult sometimes. This is another one of the reasons why she gets so tired.
She masks her insecurities and ideologies by seeming experienced and cool, being elegant.
Expanding on this: she is very skilled at fighting and puts on a show, showing her side of wanting to be cool and elegant, and to be a good role model, to seem powerful and strong.
Because she is 17-18 in the story, she ends up getting a job for hunting down singularities: the main antagonists of my series (still working on it), they are humans who have been infected by a lead disease. Not lead poisoning, but an entirely different thing. This is from the most powerful “singularity”, the embodiment of lead which represents uselessness and other things. My series is based on Greek alchemy and their interpretation of the human soul. Lead is part of the soul and is the useless part. The embodiment of lead is a bunch of skulls of animals made into a creature. (I could be wrong). There is also magic from the soul in my world. Still working on it. Back to singularities. Singularities have darkened, evil souls from the lead disease. They lose all sense of humanity and go insane basically, so they end up destroying their surroundings. The only way to save them is by either killing them or purifying their soul. Now, back to Odnokae. Odnokae struggled to deal with singularities at first. She kept on failing and getting injured. But this didn’t stop her, so she ended up training hard, wanting her parents to be proud, which is her main motivation, her parents’ encouragement and wanting her to be successful. She eventually becomes very skilled using soul magic and then meets the main protagonist and deturaganjst (I misspelled this, my bad.)
Anyway I was in a hurry writing this, just wanted to share my ideas! If you read this all, thank you. Have a great day.
I remember trying to write the SFC as it was prescribed back in the early to mid 2010s and now I see how uninteresting it is. That’s why I tried to invert the trope with the last fantasy story I wrote. People bemoan her for not being a “fighter” and so she tries to learn more masculine skills, like combat. It’s this pressure to be this thing that makes her scared to confront the final conflict. But once she realizes that her strength lies in magic that comes from love and healing, she is less afraid and far more capable.
As a male writer that absolutely love female fighters, I despise the trope that women can only be strong and active through fighting...
A character isn't a fighter... so what? That still leaves endless possibilities in a well-round world.
I finally had to write my first female main character, and... Well, here's her profile.
Princess Rona: She's princess of a Kingdom of mages at war with non magic people. She is smart and mischievous although not very athletic or strong and has a weakness for sweets. She finds herself struggling at her role since her magic is, to put it simply, weak, only able to cast average spells. However, her morality, speech skills and strategic mind are the traits she is more prominent at.
At the first chapter I managed to make her smile, laugh, feel insulted, disappointed, scared, angry and cry.
I even managed to answer the questions
Who is it about?
Princess Rona
What she wants?
To end the war
Why can't she do it?
Her father, the king who everyone respects, hates the non magics and leads the kingdom to war
What she does about it?
She sneaks into enemy ranks to understand their point of view and try to convince them into negotiating
Why doesn't work?
The non magics also hate mages and also refuse to make peace
How does it end?
Well, to not spoil it, let's just say the princess learns that to end a war, a life needs to be paid (it's not her nor father!)
Dude, you keep putting out these amazing videos that are so to the point, I feel like I'm taking a lecture from a true master of his craft, that also happens to be a great teacher. You've helped me a lot with my hobby writing and my DnD players have noticed positive changes, sincerely thank you.
@@seanmurphy7011 Guy has tons of on point videos, is well read and presents the information in a very undiluted way, if you feel that is "lol" so be it
Thanks for the kind words, happy to hear it!
Vin from Mistborn is a great “strong female character”.
Damn right she is
I love see appreciation towards the character of Vin. She is one of my favorite female characters.
My favorite "strong female" character: Beatrix Kiddo from Kill Bill. Yeah she hacks her way to Bill with a Samaurai sword (who doesn't love that!), but what makes her strong in my eyes is the very reason why she left the assassination squad in the first place. The very first thing she cries over when she awakens from her coma. The thing she sees when finally confronting Bill that stops her in her tracks and causes her to weep. Her daughter. She is strong to me because of how she is portrayed as a mother. Her being a mother is never forgotten throughout the two movies, and I love that about her character.
LMFAO
It's not "strong" female characters that are bad, but _perfect_ ones.
True
And for character design, don't make the joints too thick, or bmi too low. Your bones don't get bigger when you train, and a healthy female fat content is 24.9%, which is higher than guys. The lines of her muscles are gonna be more rounded off and soft looking. You're likely to get plump, calloused hands with veins popping through, and fingers that start off thick, but are kind of pointy at the tips. Her fingers will appear short. Also shoulders will be wider than usual, but very sloped, and don't forget, there's a muscle underneath the boobs. Women who've worked all their life often look a little fluffy when relaxed, but when they flex, surprisingly large muscles will pop out of nowhere. You'll also get things like an uneven tan, and dad calves.
Great quote. Mind if I quote from you?
You've just described an attractive female body.
@@rustyshackelford4224 Go right ahead. 👍
In my current story, I'm trying to essentially write my protagonist as initially *wanting* to be a S.F.C., and her development over the course of the novel is to learn that she doesn't need to be one.... Really hoping I pull it off! 😅
But why? What fear/weakness is she trying to cover up by being a SFC?
@@TTSnim She was forced to grow up faster than she should have and didn't get much of a childhood, so she's pretty much always seen herself as someone who Needs to be brave and responsible, because who even is she if she doesn't always exhibit these traits that she's used to define herself all her life? She's even named after a mythological hero, for crying out loud, she says!
@@ElijahStormblessed That's good, but this all seems like external drivers. Why does she see her self as some one who needs to be brave? Brave against what?
What is she afraid will happen if she isn't brave? and how does it 'destroy" her very being - in her mind- if she fails?
Becoming a SFC is the plan, why does it really mater to her? Why is it her psychological shield and how will it fail to protect her from her fear causing her to grow past it?
@@TTSnim She thinks that bravery is her best pathway towards being a good person, and I feel like the human desire to feel like a good person is intrinsic motivation in and of itself, if that makes sense? And I'm not sure I really understand what your last question means? (And thanks for asking these questions, btw -- they're helpful!)
@@ElijahStormblessedI think the question is what is it that makes her realize she doesn't have to be a SFC after all. Has she found something better or did she finally become a SFC only to realize it wasn't what she wanted after all?
In the book I am writing, I wanted to combine the dynamics of brother and sister, twins, mage and warrior. So to invert what we typically see, the sister is the big brawler type, but that is not all that defines the character. She is hyper protective of her brother, who suffered a childhood injury saving her from danger, and is perhaps a little vain about her hair. She constantly puts herself into harms way to keep her brother out of it. What I hope to have be their character arcs is she learns that her brother is a capable mage in his own right and he sometimes needs to save her. EDIT: Their grandfather is half-orc, so she is physically stronger and bigger than typical, and the long recovery from the injury stunted the brother's growth
Ripley from alien is a strong female character, its not that she is overly powerful and has no flaws. Strong characters are people who dispite being terrified stand on principals and push through their fears to win the day. There is a military quote that fits any character you want to write as a strong character. "Bravery is not the absence of fear, its doing what must be done despite the fear." Captain marvel failed in this because at most she was simply confused though otherwise in control. Never once was a situation beyond her control, she never has a reason for fear. Where as batman from the dark knight series during the interactions with joker you see control shifting out of batman's hands and into the jokers and vise versa many times leading to tension and his actions at times not being enough.
Another is briann of tarth from game of thrones where despite her formidable skills many times she deals with situations that move out of control. She never stops living up to her beliefs though and dispite failures of saving the stark girls continues to push on. She was a well written strong female character.
A lot of writers confuse strength of character with physical strength and don't allow failure that at times comes with strong convictions and principals.
There is a vast difference between Damsels in Distress and Distressing Damsels.
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Eowyn (LOTR)
Starbuck, Laura Roslin, Athena, Helena Cain, Caprica Six (Battlestar Galactica 2003)
Samantha Carther, Elizabeth Weir, Vala (Stargate)
Lady Jessica (Dune)
Peggy Carther (MCU)
Ripley (Alien)
Maleficent
Belle (Beauty and the Beast)
Historia Reiss (Attack on titan)
San (Princess Mononoke)
Yuna from Final Fantasy X is a great example of a good female character
As a person who's working on a novel, I never had the idea of making the novel I've made having the generic one-dimensional strong female mc. The novel's mc is a female but not one of those, a female mc that is not strong doesn't mean it's always a good mc. I think the mc of the novel I've made is a good one because she has her own goals, she has a personality, and she has both advantages and flaws.
She has to struggle and EARN that strength. Look at Sarah Connor in Terminator
Ripely from Aliens is a complex, emotionally rich, character with deep personality development during the course of the movie.
A great example of how it is done correctly
Yep - when I hear 'strong female character' (or when I read it in the title of this video) my brain automatically goes straight to Ellen Ripley.
Show your work
Her most compelling trait for me, portrayed in Aliens, is her caring and protective motherly nature. That "momma bear" aspect really pushes her character to the top.
@@NefariousKoel I'd rather know how she's complex, emotionally rich with a deep personality in the movie she was actually introduced in
One underrated female character is Mrs. Brisby from The Secret of NIMH.
Arwen: Playfully holds a sword to her love's neck when she meets him in the woods. Enters the scene as a divine beauty with the promise of healing, heroically rides to her home to escape the most powerful of Sauron's agents, confidently threatens them and destroys them with magic, comforts her love and gives him sage wisdom to silence his doubts, embraces her feminine beauty and companionship, sacrifices her immortality to be with her love, is both obedient and respectfully defiant to her father, waits for her love and marries him in the end to be a wife, queen and mother to their children. She's still one of my favorite female characters.
So she needlessly threatens her lover just to look strong; shows what gaslighters like you know about writing.
@@user-lv5rd6kb5o Have you even watched the movie scene the OP is referring to 💀shows how ignorant people like you accidentally show the world they have no idea what they're talking about
So glad there’s no comments crying bc of this bc females are better or smt. Quality community here☑️
Alfred Hitchcock who said if you confuse an audience you lose them.
Which made me find stories hard to follow With “multi dimensional characters. As it can make what they say conflicting and confusing to read
I’m now writing part 2 of my series ( part 1 trying to get it published soon ) and I think in part 3 or 4 the protagonist, an elite fighter, gets in trouble. He’s talented and can be earning a promotion. The only one that can save him is jealous of the promotion, so decides to not save him. The protagonist gets imprisoned, but he’s a mentor and his “student” sets up a group of enthusiastic young fighters who want to prove themselves. They get into the castle but get defeated while outnumbered 20 to 30. Only 6-7 enemy’s survive, all3 surviving youngsters get also imprisoned. Then the “black soul” comes around, someone who’s identity is hidden. He takes out the guards in a long fight, freeing the elite soldiers. Then she reveals her face: it’s the protagonist s crush. That explains why the protagonist almost never can see her. She turns out to be an elite spy.
In my current novel writing project, which is set in a dark fantasy/grimdark setting, my protagonist is a fallen elven princess working as a morally ambiguous mercenary. She had a tough exterior that hides a vunerable and softer side who has to battle with her inner demons thst are rooted in regret and shame that she has to reconsile with as she sets out to ends the tyrannical dictatorial reign of an evil black dragon that rules over her homeland
I am thinking about doing a negative character arc, whete she goes from a neutral character and becomes evil and cruel by the end of the story. Is this a good idea or not?
Hello. Sounds promising already. A negative arc is totally possible (I've done it kinda myself), though it's not easy. It called for her reasons to do evil things in face of dire challenges, which require a progressive descent with several key points/decisionnal turns to mark the way. Psychology is a good ressource to study in that case. Also, it's nice to have a secondary character with a more positive evolution to show alternate choices are still possible (yet hard and dependant on context).
@@benjaminthibieroz4155 I have planned for a pivotal event in the narrative at the end of the second act where a key supporting character dies (my sacrificial lion, if you will, who is my protagonists childhood friend and love interest). As a result in the 3rd and final act my protagonist crosses the despair event horizon and their sanity slowly slips away, becoming increasingly more sadistic, callous and cruel as their nialistic worldview takes over their psyche as they face the antagonist in a graphically violent manner.
The ending is intended to be a dark and nialistic one, like a Yoko Taro story
@@unicorntomboy9736 Yoko Taro is an inspiration for sure
@@benjaminthibieroz4155I want to write stories like him, since he has a knack for writing grimdark narratives
Sorry to step on the positive vibes here but
"A mercenary with tough exterior but a softer side" just sounds like a cliche to me. Doesn't tell me anything about the actual character. Nor does the insinuation that she will fall to evil defending her home. The fact that you're undecided about an irrevocable story pivoting shift in your character's complete narrative trajectory tells me you treat your characters more like pieces on gameboard, and suggests that you don't know what your story is about either.
You want a case study for what is quite possibly the brass ring of “strong female characters”? Ellen Ripley, she is a voice of reason. Never berates or denigrates anyone around her. Is an absolute tiger mom. She is not fearless, she is terrified and remains calm and collected anyway. Still my favorite woman ever portrayed in film, and that’s as someone such a slave to classics I know all of Vivian Lee’s work and have every film Joan Crawford was in.
Oh yeah, "strong" females are really a complete bother, but are very en vogue. I can't stand most of them because of the exact reasons you named, I just didn't know why before. Tauriel from the Hobbit trilogy comes to mind here. And, of course, Eowyn as the exact opposite, Hermione, Catniss, and Princess Leia, too, as you've already shown as examples. The character I always make an exception for in the strong female category that go on my nerves is Ziva David from NCIS, and also Kono from Hawai Five-0. But most of the other strong females in that genre are indeed pretty, strong, emotionless (more or less), and perfect. I don't know what's different about these two I mentioned, but it's how I feel about them.
Watching this, I realised that I definitely need to have a look at my "strong" female in my fantasy project. It's not too bad, I think, but I will have to think about her a bit more.
Teamwork dynamics are a big factor that I didn't see mentioned in the video that's often very important in fantasy.
A major problem I find with a lot of horrible attempts at SFCs such as Carol Denvers (Captain Marvel), Jennifer Walters (She-Hulk), Galadriel in Rings of Power, Michael Burnham in Star Trek: Discovery, and Naru in Prey is that they don't behave whatsoever like team players, and especially not leaders. Their attitude is too negative, they're too egotistical, and too tunnel-visioned towards their own objectives.
That isn't necessarily a problem in itself; it could be a very interesting flaw and possibly something they have to overcome to work with others or accept and live with as loners who alienate themselves. That was Maverick's ultimate flaw in Top Gun, and one he had to become humbled to realize and overcome to ultimately become accepted among his team. Yet the writers don't even treat these like flaws for these "SFCs"; they present these "girlbosses" -- so ill-suited to lead let alone follow anyone -- as though we're supposed to applaud their hopelessly uncooperative attitude.
Meanwhile, if we look at classic Star Trek (before Nutrek), there are so many amazing SFCs there like Beverly Crusher, Deanna Troi, Tasha Yar, Guinan, Ro Laren (also originally wasn't a team player, but that was properly treated as her major flaw that she had to learn to overcome), Dr. Pulaski, Janeway, B'Elanna Tores, Kira Nerys, Jadzia Dax, etc. Yet they're such great characters not only because of how they behave in a vacuum and how competent they are on their own, but ultimately how they function in the context of a team, and all of them are or become capable leaders in their own right.
Another major problem I see is that a lot of these "girlboss" types often have a primary motivation of "proving others wrong." While we can sympathize with how someone who has been discriminated against throughout their lives might develop this mindset, it's ultimately a very narcissistic and villainous trait. It's the trait of a sympathetic villain, not a sympathetic hero let alone anti-hero. If we compare that type of villainous underdog mindset to the heroic underdog mindset of the lovable Rocky Balboa, Rocky was also treated as a total bum and loser all his life, yet his goal isn't to prove other people wrong; it's to prove to himself that he can go the distance because he's not even sure if he can believe in himself to do that. That makes all the difference between a heroic underdog and a villainous one, between someone we want to see succeeding vs. someone we want to see failing.
Great video with a lot of helpful advice. I agree. I think writers need to put the emphasis on female CHARACTER when it comes to writing. You just need to take some things in consideration, give them strengths and flaws and have them be challenged by the plot. Just like you would with any male character.
Though, I disagree that the animated Disney Princesses are poorly written. Yes, the Golden Age princesses could've been better written, especially Aurora. But the 90s ones and the ones after? Not really. Take Belle. While Belle is a static character, she is curious, smart and stands up for what she believes in. She has weaknesses like her curiosity getting the better of her. At least she's better written than Captain Marvel. Same goes for a lot of them.
A lot of Hollywood writers need to watch this video.
I love this channel. You go over so many intersting topics in depth. Thank you for your work.
You have to stop thinking in binaries if you want to write anything complex or interesting. If you think you can write every character so that the audience will recognize their gender based solely on their speech or mannerisms you are already thinking the wrong way about everything.
"men" or "women" are just one dimension of a character. There is also "old" and "young", "rich" and "poor" and so on.
So don't reduce your characters to their gender.
For example, imagine an encounter between a young woman from a poor background working in the army talking to an old man from an aristocratic but impoverished background officiating in a church as a priest. She is nearing the end of her contract and suffers from PTSD after having killed civilians during a fire exchange. He has lost all his elder siblings and is now uncertain about his own faith, but still care deeply about the people asking him for guidance. Which one of the two will have the more "masculine" or "feminine" way of talking ?
In my current novel, I have a female character as my main character, and she’s called Bella Rivers. I just write her as I would any character, without thinking about it, for me, it would just feel weird to make them less complex than male characters. (I’m a male btw if that matters)
See the problem is you're doing it right. Humanizing women. Stop that.
I’ve never written anything before and I am less than knowledgeable on writing.
However I find that the character of Daenerys Targaryen from ASOIAF is a very good balance. She started off as a young woman who lost her family. As the storyline develops however she becomes a great character. She isn’t a strong female character, if we take the show for example, in the “Great War” in season 8 she is by no means a great warrior. Realistically without her dragons she couldn’t fight anyone with any basic skills. But her mentality grows and she becomes a character that can manipulate and draw people to her cause of conquering the 7 Kingdoms.
This is just my opinion :)
Every time I see this argument I see "you have to write women different than men. The bar is higher. They're not allowed to be simple, simply-motivated, shallow - or just strong - you have to EXPLAIN it all so my male mind can handle it."
Why?
Why does a female character only having the depth of so, so, so many male characters offend so much?
Because feminist will call us sexist if we don't reach that high bar, but no one cares if you make a crappy male character. It has nothing to do with the "male mind" understanding People just don't like being called sexist and that insult only goes one way.
Notice I said crappy male character. Because simple, simply-motivated, shallow characters are crappy. Not to be confused with the characters that claim simply motivations but are shown to be rather deep. Even if the audience never sees the depth of the character the writer should.
Before watching the video: I refer to this problem as "Strong Female Character Syndrome," or in a pithy phrase, "Have I told you how Strong and Female I am today?" That is, these aren't characters meant to give life and texture to a belief, or a personality trait, or a concept worthy of exploration. They are instead (metaphorically) living author tracts, mere _vehicles_ for achieving an artificially-enforced goal. _Any_ time a character is written solely for that kind of purpose, it is going to be very obvious to most audiences, and they will reject it, because that formulaic, plastic writing is just bad. It doesn't actually produce inclusion, because it isn't actually including new voices and new stories _for themselves._ It is including the superficial _appearance_ of new voices without actually putting in the effort to make those new voices be on par with the over-represented voices already present.
Do not write characters as mere vehicles for expedient ends. Make your characters _people,_ with thoughts and feelings and desires of their own, and they will be whatever they will be--strong or weak, dumb or clever, brave or cowardly, noble or wicked. And they will be worth reading, because they exist and struggle for their _own_ reasons, not because they were token efforts at broadening horizons.
I have a lot of strong female characters that I love. Like Lyra from The Golden Compass... she's headstrong, cares about what's right, and knows how to lie and talk herself out of trouble. But she's a kid, she can be tricked and manhandled and she can get lost, and she doesn't always know the right thing to do. And then there's Rachel from Animorphs. She loves to morph powerful animals and get into insane physical battles. But sometimes she loves it a little too much, and sometimes she rushes in without a plan, or does something that can't be undone, and after all of that there is no good end for her. Intense characters have intense problems and intense fates. Intense traits sort of lock you in to certain things, and lock you out of others. This is true for real people, so for characters to be relatable, it has to be the case for them too. They can't just float unscathed through life. That's not what we experience. That's just fake and boring.
I loved Aloy from the Horizon series of video games. She's a badass but she had to go through trials and tribulations to be that badass.
I was thinking about writing a vampire novel (inspired by Salem's Lot and Dracula, not Twilight), and one of the main characters would be an amnesiac and mute 18 year old girl who lost her voice and memory after being attacked by the main villain. I don't want her to be a Mary Sue, but I also want her to be a heroine with development. How could I make it work?
Just don't make everything easy for her, give her struggles, weaknesses and make that her actions have consequences
And then you wouldn't have a Mary Sue, it's that simple
Buffy the vampire slayer is a masterclass when it comes to writing strong female characters, or just. Female characters, or even just characters in general..
You understand story better than Kathleen Kennedy and Bob Iger...... You should replace them. Seriously...... The reason why i hate modern movies and Novels is because of Mary Sues....
I hope I've developed my female lead to be a little more complex. i know she has some physical strength but there are others stronger than her. i do think i may need some more flaws.
I fell into this trap too 10 years ago - except I was *cognizant* of the trope and worked to avoid it. The thing is - I then created a character that still had the tropes but then had bits of femininity that seemed out of place.
End the trope fellas. Much as the tabloids suggest otherwise no one likes a SFC or a Mary Sue.
These types of characters are always written in a light that makes them unlikable, and boring.