Great video explaining a limitation of the Zwift cog that I bet a lot of folks didn't realize. 👏👏👏 You REALLY deserve more subscribers considering the great content you produce.
I do my training on TrainerRoad and my “racing” (ahem) in Zwift, all on a Zwift ride connected to a Zwift cog and wahoo v6. Honestly it isn’t a problem, although the instructions for fitting the cog were poor as I was an early adopter. I always struggled getting my derailleurs adjusted properly when mounted on trainer and in truth I was glad to free up a proper bike for outdoors. I can see there might be a problem with certain apps but have found the virtual shifting very smooth and fast in Zwift when sprinting for instance. Horses for courses I reckon but I for one am a fan.
Why would I ever accept not being able to shift gears? Having only erg mode available is NOT a sign of compatibility. It is a side effect of incompatibility
@@drewbuffington The Zwift Ride bike and any trainer with virtual gearing that is shifted by the Zwift wireless controllers, is locked to Zwift. That’s because the wireless controllers talk only to the Zwift app, that in turn, shifts the virtual gears. This is by design. No Zwift app = no shifting. If Zwift had wanted proper compatibility, they would have the controllers talk directly to the trainer / resistance device, just like a smart bike. Instead, they cleverly had the controllers work only with the Zwift app.
Excellent video. I already asked Zwift a while back if they would allow their regular cassette connections to be used with the new Zwift ride and hub setup. Never got a response back. To me this option, would address many of the challenges you mentioned in addition to allowing legacy setups that many of us have already bought and paid for on the Zwift platform to continue to be used. There are numerous workout situations that I’ve come across where erg mode simply doesn’t work effectively (multiple and frequent transitions in and out of hard sprints, etc). Having a traditional cassette setup has come in handy quite a bit in those instances to switch back to sim mode.
I hope the Elite Square won't have this problem. People say the Zwift Ride is great value, but it really isn't if you can only use it on one app and it could turn into an expensive paperweight at any moment.
This is a step backwards in the indoor cycling space. As doesn’t develop anything other than lock you into Zwift. It doesn’t make indoor riding realistic. Limits you to a one by set of steps of resistance. That you can not change
The only caveat to erg mode in TR is the limit to one gear ratio if a single front ring. Using a dedicated 2x front not so much. The gear ratio for the same resistance can feel quite different and have different training effects. Something to bear in mind.
I just bought the Zwift Bike. I like Wahoo SystmX. I was shocked when I realized that I can’t do my 4DP test with no physical gears. It’s my fault to not realize it in advamce, but the biggest (and only) disadvantage of Zwift COG/Bike too.
When using 4DP, I believe Systm switch off erg mode into level mode or resistance mode. I thought you should be able to adjust the level or resistance to what you need and should get you to complete the test. I haven’t been on Systm in a while so I will need to give it a try but something to experiment with.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Thats true. But for 5sec max and 1 min max you have to make a grand and fast switch between gears (like from 150w to 1200w) and it is impossible digitaly. Yes, give it a try and you will find the biggest downside of no mech gears immedietly. Anyway, Systm doesn’t keep up with the industry and became obsolate. Thats a shame since I find this app the best for introducing cycling culture and passion of racing, suffering. I want to train and not play sorry 49kg virtual guys.
I’m thinking of purchasing the Zwift ride but still doing my research. I have a few question: What is 4DP? I see ALOT of people talking about the hate for virtual shifting but… Why would you even consider buying a Zwift ride if you weren’t gonna stay with the Zwift app? Thanks in advance. 👍
@@allthingscycling Hey, 4DP is a complex cycling fitness test from Wahoo. It measures separately your 20min/5min/1min/5sec maximum power. Than it calculates your “athlete profile” and adjust the trainings to your characteristics. Then you can decide, wether you want to improve your advantages further or working on your weaknesses. During this test, you have to put maximum efforts for short time too. Very nice way of training.
Thank you for clarifying that when you think of Zwift and the ecosystem it make sense but as far as other programs not on board it makes you stuck to Zwift and prices keep going up so me I need options so thanks again
The main reason I see for using the Cog instead of a cassette is if you do all of your sim riding in Zwift and are set up to do virtual shifting and don't need a selection of cogs, or you're a multi-bike household with different speed bikes and don't want to keep swapping cassettes and are ok riding only in Zwift in sim mode. Otherwise, I think that it makes more sense to install a cassette, to have the option of riding in sim mode on other platforms, or even in Zwift if you're training for real life races and prefer to do it with physical shifting. Sure, this means buying another cassette or dedicating one of your existing ones to it, but for most people this shouldn't be an issue. You can even use a crappy old cassette so long as it has one decent cog among the middle cogs. Of course you wouldn't be able to use most of the other cogs, but it would give you a de facto Cog. And yes, I'm aware that there are apps that allow you to use virtual shifting on other platforms, but I'm guessing that most people won't want to fool with them.
Hi, great video covering a topic many people not seem to get. I do have a question concerning the Zwift ride bike with the Wahoo KICKR. Is it possible for someone else in my family to use it without a sim app just for example a simpel wahoo app where you can change the resistance?
@@SmartBikeTrainers Curious as to how that would work. So you just ignore the click shifters and use the app to raise or lower the resistance effectively making it like a stationary bike? Thanks!
It's not about the others accepting it, it's about zwift allowing the access to their hardware and that is completely different story.. why should day? Virtual shifting is a great way to lock the customers to your ecosystem
@@flooooooo0686 what can van Rysels do? The trainer is sh*t as f*ck. 600 W max this is nothing and you need a cassette. And what has virtual shifting to do with van Rysels? Zwift will never allow to enter the Zwift Protocol for virtual shifting
You can’t turn virtual gearing off. The Zwift Cog is essentially one single cog. You can use resistance mode in TrainerRoad and make adjustments to resistance using TR resistance slider.
They could do something similar to what Indievelo did. But the winner will be whoever come up with a controller with open protocols to be used with any app.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Wireless shifters should control the trainer/resistance unit directly. It should be an extension to the existing BLE and ANT+ protocols. Better yet. Just wire the shifters to the trainer/resistance unit. That's how every smart bike works already. When you make the bike frame, the controller doesn't need to be wireless.
Does it work with the 13 speed axs group set? I would think it does given the cog would just make it “work” like a 12 speed. But am I missing something?
Per Zwift, 8 to 12 speed bikes are compatible but generally the main limitation is the rear axle. As long as your bike’s rear axle fits the trainer you should be good.
Too bad it can't be combined with apps like Rouvy. Otherwise I would have bought that bike and Kickr Core. I hope that those types of trainers will come soon for a price around 1000 euros. Then I can train indoors or under a roof in bad weather and during the winter and keep my condition up.
Do you really want to be locked into Zwift ecosystem? I do like Zwift of course, but too much of anything can be overburdening and therefore this would limit the option of having variety.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Oh great! I'm in Columbus but do business with OU. Their campus networking, including the WiFi uses my companies product. Small world. On the topic of the video, I wish this whole virtual shifting thing was a standard so this stuff would work across apps. I too would be more interested in the Elite Square, because of its integrated VS, but I'm using the E-Flex Plus and couldn't go back to a bike that doesn't move. I guess I'll just switch cassettes when I need to change bikes, which isn't often.
Sort of. I made a video on compatibility with other apps: Zwift Cog Compatibility Explained: Does It Limit Your Cycling App Choices? ruclips.net/video/o65CxiCY7Po/видео.html
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Great video explaining a limitation of the Zwift cog that I bet a lot of folks didn't realize. 👏👏👏 You REALLY deserve more subscribers considering the great content you produce.
I appreciate that 🙂
I do my training on TrainerRoad and my “racing” (ahem) in Zwift, all on a Zwift ride connected to a Zwift cog and wahoo v6. Honestly it isn’t a problem, although the instructions for fitting the cog were poor as I was an early adopter. I always struggled getting my derailleurs adjusted properly when mounted on trainer and in truth I was glad to free up a proper bike for outdoors. I can see there might be a problem with certain apps but have found the virtual shifting very smooth and fast in Zwift when sprinting for instance. Horses for courses I reckon but I for one am a fan.
Why would I ever accept not being able to shift gears? Having only erg mode available is NOT a sign of compatibility. It is a side effect of incompatibility
Why would you not be able to shift?
@@drewbuffington The Zwift Ride bike and any trainer with virtual gearing that is shifted by the Zwift wireless controllers, is locked to Zwift. That’s because the wireless controllers talk only to the Zwift app, that in turn, shifts the virtual gears. This is by design. No Zwift app = no shifting.
If Zwift had wanted proper compatibility, they would have the controllers talk directly to the trainer / resistance device, just like a smart bike. Instead, they cleverly had the controllers work only with the Zwift app.
@@NotElvis why would you be riding inside of you’re not on zwift?
Turning my old 2x9 into a virtual 1x24 trainer bike that's quiet. Seems like a solid option
Why would I limit my self to zwift?
Excellent video. I already asked Zwift a while back if they would allow their regular cassette connections to be used with the new Zwift ride and hub setup. Never got a response back. To me this option, would address many of the challenges you mentioned in addition to allowing legacy setups that many of us have already bought and paid for on the Zwift platform to continue to be used. There are numerous workout situations that I’ve come across where erg mode simply doesn’t work effectively (multiple and frequent transitions in and out of hard sprints, etc). Having a traditional cassette setup has come in handy quite a bit in those instances to switch back to sim mode.
I hope the Elite Square won't have this problem. People say the Zwift Ride is great value, but it really isn't if you can only use it on one app and it could turn into an expensive paperweight at any moment.
This is a step backwards in the indoor cycling space. As doesn’t develop anything other than lock you into Zwift. It doesn’t make indoor riding realistic. Limits you to a one by set of steps of resistance. That you can not change
Very clear. The video i needed. Thanks!
You are welcome!
The only caveat to erg mode in TR is the limit to one gear ratio if a single front ring. Using a dedicated 2x front not so much. The gear ratio for the same resistance can feel quite different and have different training effects. Something to bear in mind.
Good point 👍
I just bought the Zwift Bike.
I like Wahoo SystmX.
I was shocked when I realized that I can’t do my 4DP test with no physical gears.
It’s my fault to not realize it in advamce, but the biggest (and only) disadvantage of Zwift COG/Bike too.
When using 4DP, I believe Systm switch off erg mode into level mode or resistance mode. I thought you should be able to adjust the level or resistance to what you need and should get you to complete the test. I haven’t been on Systm in a while so I will need to give it a try but something to experiment with.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Thats true. But for 5sec max and 1 min max you have to make a grand and fast switch between gears (like from 150w to 1200w) and it is impossible digitaly.
Yes, give it a try and you will find the biggest downside of no mech gears immedietly.
Anyway, Systm doesn’t keep up with the industry and became obsolate. Thats a shame since I find this app the best for introducing cycling culture and passion of racing, suffering.
I want to train and not play sorry 49kg virtual guys.
I’m thinking of purchasing the Zwift ride but still doing my research. I have a few question:
What is 4DP?
I see ALOT of people talking about the hate for virtual shifting but…
Why would you even consider buying a Zwift ride if you weren’t gonna stay with the Zwift app?
Thanks in advance. 👍
@@allthingscycling 4DP is Wahoo SYSTM FTP 4 dimensional profile test. It is specific to Wahoo SYSTM cycling app.
@@allthingscycling Hey, 4DP is a complex cycling fitness test from Wahoo. It measures separately your 20min/5min/1min/5sec maximum power.
Than it calculates your “athlete profile” and adjust the trainings to your characteristics. Then you can decide, wether you want to improve your advantages further or working on your weaknesses.
During this test, you have to put maximum efforts for short time too.
Very nice way of training.
Thank you for clarifying that when you think of Zwift and the ecosystem it make sense but as far as other programs not on board it makes you stuck to Zwift and prices keep going up so me I need options so thanks again
I wonder if using the QZ app would solve the compatibility issue.
The main reason I see for using the Cog instead of a cassette is if you do all of your sim riding in Zwift and are set up to do virtual shifting and don't need a selection of cogs, or you're a multi-bike household with different speed bikes and don't want to keep swapping cassettes and are ok riding only in Zwift in sim mode.
Otherwise, I think that it makes more sense to install a cassette, to have the option of riding in sim mode on other platforms, or even in Zwift if you're training for real life races and prefer to do it with physical shifting.
Sure, this means buying another cassette or dedicating one of your existing ones to it, but for most people this shouldn't be an issue. You can even use a crappy old cassette so long as it has one decent cog among the middle cogs. Of course you wouldn't be able to use most of the other cogs, but it would give you a de facto Cog.
And yes, I'm aware that there are apps that allow you to use virtual shifting on other platforms, but I'm guessing that most people won't want to fool with them.
Hi, great video covering a topic many people not seem to get. I do have a question concerning the Zwift ride bike with the Wahoo KICKR. Is it possible for someone else in my family to use it without a sim app just for example a simpel wahoo app where you can change the resistance?
Yes, you can use the Wahoo app alone to set the resistance or wattage.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Curious as to how that would work. So you just ignore the click shifters and use the app to raise or lower the resistance effectively making it like a stationary bike? Thanks!
ZWIFT PLAY and virtual shifting is better than I ever expected. I hope this will be accepted by other cycling apps...
It's not about the others accepting it, it's about zwift allowing the access to their hardware and that is completely different story.. why should day? Virtual shifting is a great way to lock the customers to your ecosystem
@@antichraldo van Rysels d100 already can do it so I don’t see why other companies couldn’t jump on it too.
@@flooooooo0686 what can van Rysels do? The trainer is sh*t as f*ck. 600 W max this is nothing and you need a cassette. And what has virtual shifting to do with van Rysels? Zwift will never allow to enter the Zwift Protocol for virtual shifting
useful video. thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
thank yuo for the explanation
So just to confirm, in TrainerRoad, can you not turn virtual steering off and change gears manually? Meaning you cannot use Resistance mode at all?
You can’t turn virtual gearing off. The Zwift Cog is essentially one single cog. You can use resistance mode in TrainerRoad and make adjustments to resistance using TR resistance slider.
Are the other apps working on introducing their own virtual shifting? That would solve the problem no?
They could do something similar to what Indievelo did. But the winner will be whoever come up with a controller with open protocols to be used with any app.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Wireless shifters should control the trainer/resistance unit directly. It should be an extension to the existing BLE and ANT+ protocols.
Better yet. Just wire the shifters to the trainer/resistance unit. That's how every smart bike works already. When you make the bike frame, the controller doesn't need to be wireless.
Worth mentioning that it also works well with the Wahoo app where you can change the resistance with the app while you are riding.
Oh yeah... thanks for sharing!
Does the cog and virtual shifting work with older trainers like the Tacx Neo 1?
No it does not work with any Tacx trainer.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Thank you! I was looking for an excuse to get the Jet Black Victory trainer, haha!
Does it work with the 13 speed axs group set? I would think it does given the cog would just make it “work” like a 12 speed. But am I missing something?
Per Zwift, 8 to 12 speed bikes are compatible but generally the main limitation is the rear axle. As long as your bike’s rear axle fits the trainer you should be good.
Too bad it can't be combined with apps like Rouvy. Otherwise I would have bought that bike and Kickr Core. I hope that those types of trainers will come soon for a price around 1000 euros. Then I can train indoors or under a roof in bad weather and during the winter and keep my condition up.
Are you using the Zwift bike exclusively now ?
No… I am constantly switching and testing things but I would say I have been using it for about 50% of the time.
Do you really want to be locked into Zwift ecosystem? I do like Zwift of course, but too much of anything can be overburdening and therefore this would limit the option of having variety.
Can I upgrade my old elite direto with normal cassete with ywift cog?
It’s not compatible. Only Elite Direto XR will be compatible with the Cog and virtual shifting.
what is your affiliation with OU?
My son goes there :)
@@SmartBikeTrainers Oh great! I'm in Columbus but do business with OU. Their campus networking, including the WiFi uses my companies product. Small world. On the topic of the video, I wish this whole virtual shifting thing was a standard so this stuff would work across apps. I too would be more interested in the Elite Square, because of its integrated VS, but I'm using the E-Flex Plus and couldn't go back to a bike that doesn't move. I guess I'll just switch cassettes when I need to change bikes, which isn't often.
The wahoo kickr V5 will not be capatible with Zwift ride as it cannot run virtual shifting.
No it does not
Any insight on whether there will be a firmware upgrade for the Kickr V5 in order to accommodate the Zwift cog and virtual shifting?
The other apps should implement virtual shifting
Sort of. I made a video on compatibility with other apps:
Zwift Cog Compatibility Explained: Does It Limit Your Cycling App Choices?
ruclips.net/video/o65CxiCY7Po/видео.html
I was the investor of the Virtual gear.
Zwift have payed for a licens to use it. 😉
A solution in search of a problem.
All ready too gameafied, not worth it.
First!