Excellent comparison! Like all telescopes, each has its positive and negative aspects, but both the Seestar S50 and Dwarf 3 are amazing pieces of technology. What a wonderful time we live in!
Both devices have different advantages and disadvantages. I ordered a Dwarf 3, but a Seestar 70 or 80 with a newer better sensor with more resolution would be the burner! I would instantly order it! Clear skies are so rare that it is always a good idea to take pictures with several devices simultaniously. Clear skies!
Simple: on sun/moon the Seestar wins due to having 50mm aperture vs 35mm. Aperture is always king for details. With longer exposure and EQ mode the D3 catches up easily to the Seestar's larger aperture, usually 10 second exposure and high rejected frame count with lower resolution on deepsky nebulas. Very impressive Heart nebula image with the Dwarf 3. Of course Seestar is coming out with the S30, still waiting to see what that offers, or maybe a new Seestar S50-2 that also addresses existing issues. Exciting times for the smart telescope astronomers.
Great review but the Dwarf 3 being so new, and you covered an early release version, they are still developing and testing a couple key features that are set to be released consecutively starting end of this month. I’d agree with others that each have their niche, but D3 edges out in a couple key categories and the upcoming features will pull it ahead just based on my use of both devices.
Great video. For me the most annoying aspect of my S50 is the field rotation on an already tight field of view. It is very obvious very quickly and has to be cropped out. EQ mode on the Dwarf solves that issue. You can mount the S50 to go EQ but that's not for the inexperienced. Neither is really excellent for solar, lunar or planetary, they just don't have the FL. I'd liked to have seen you run the same exposure times for each scope and run identical processing on the DSOs.
Thanks for the comparison. I already have an S50 and it seems to have the edge in terms of resolution (arc seconds per pixel) but obviously a smaller field of view. There are not a huge number of objects that require a wider field of view, and the forthcoming mosaic mode looks like it will address that, albeit requiring longer exposure time. I’ve been delighted with the results I’ve got so far. As you say, it is early days for smart telescopes in general and it will be most interesting to see how things develop - the competition is bound to continue to drive further improvements!
Thank you for putting these videos together, Wido. They are not only helpful in seeing the differences between the two devices but are very interesting tutorials to help overcome my anxious resistances to the technical learning curves for them. I ordered my D3 in mid September 2024 and was advised that it would be shipped in January, 2025. Winter skies here in Montreal are frequently crystal clear and the density of the freezing air focuses the moon and stars sharply. I would be a little nervous about taking it out in -10C but my Nikon cameras can handle it so I hope the Dwarf 3 will, too. Both telescopes are technological marvels at an affordable cost.
Very good video. I bought the dwarf 3 a couple of weeks ago and I have to wait for it to arrive at the end of December. It is really quite a challenge to do astrophotography in the Netherlands. I lived in Nijmegen for 4 years and the weather is horrible. Double congratulations for doing astrophotography and for sharing the video. I ask: is it possible to rotate the field of view or is it fixed in both telescopes? Thank you very much. Greetings from Argentina. Javier
Dear Javier, thank you so much for the positive feedback. Nijmegen is a beautiful city, but astrophotography opportunities in Argentina are likely much better. Unfortunately, both telescopes have fixed sensors. It would be great if that changed in future smart scopes. Saludos desde Holanda!
So, the question is for someone wanting to start out in astrophotography do you get a smart telescope which will: minimise learning curve; get results sooner; and give a less frustrating start to the hobby, or do you get a mount that will last you, something like a redcat 51 and a zwo camera but expose yourself to some serious learning and potential early frustration. The way I see it one gives you a taste that you may soon want to move on from but the other comes with a higher risk of failure and desire to give up although the equipment may well serve you longer should you carry on.
Don't take me wrong, 500 is a good chunk of money. But it's a very cheap first step into a hobby - hobbies are generally not cheap but this one is expensive. And if you realized that it's not for you, then that's a 500 well spent.
@@RidwanMarian So the smart scope would be money well spent either way? I’m guessing that if you moved on to bigger rigs you might keep the smart scope as a travel setup.
Both are amazing small telescopes and both have their own pros and cons. I want a Seedwarf with the field of view of the D3, the sharpness of the Seestar, a square fov, a double lens like the Dwarf 3, the gigapixel panorama of the Dwarf 3, the app of the Seestar, and so on. Don’t think it will happen any soon 😂
I wouldn't be so sure it won't come anytime soon. ZWO knows the Dwarf is it's main competition and constantly release new products. The S30 is coming out soon and they will come out with a successor to this before long. I wouldn't be surprised if they release an S70 or S80 sometime either. Not saying tomorrow but even a couple years from now I think smart scopes will have come a very long way.
Thanks for the report and I looked at the blog and especially looked at the pictures from PixInsight and the star image is bad, really bad. You can only wish for the EQ mode for the Seestar Sxx because the mosaic mode is already available in the beta. With two sea stars in overlapping mosaic mode, you are definitely the favorite with APP, Siril and PIX, especially since the material seems to be much better.
Nice review! Can they also do panorama's? Then the seestrat narrow view can be mitigated. Also can you do landscape astro with the wide angle lens from dwarf? Greetings from Doetinchem
Dwarf it is. I have absolutely 0 experience with astrophotography, but som limited experience with photography in general. I know photoshop and lightroom well, and it really seems like the dwarf gives you better images to work with as long as you keep in mind to shorten the exposures? Would love to see some short exposure stacked photos from the dwraf, or did i miss something? I guess the APP from seestar would fit me better, but i love steep learningcurves :)
I dislike the idea of throwing out the whole scope when a newer model comes out, but I am impressed at the capability for early adopters of this tech. For new or lazy astrophotography, it will be amazing. I will wait 10 years
both look awesome.. the d3 seams a little more techy for a newbie but the seestar software makes it a click and go and your done kind of deal.. shame that it cant capture as much as the d3.. though also a shame they both do not have a way to attach other lenses to them may be harder to do that with the d3.. but the seestar looks like you could easy alter the lens to be able to attach say a wide angle lens etc.. not sure if that would be the best way to go.. i am very new to all this.. as this kind of kit used to be way out of my price range when i was into looking at the stars.. great video.. though would loved to have seen the quality of the day time use of the seestar before you finished the video the dwarf 3 looks awesome and i loved the way it can track items in daytime..
thx for this good review! edit in pixinsight bring the full potential for old timer astrophotograph who need a telescope for a trip or don't have an observatory. the dwarf 3 will be a good addition to my other reflector and refractor. and wide fields of view is a good option sometimes. Hope that both company and new will bring support and other release on this market. always a good move for inovation , price and new features. 😁
You can take images of the sun every day if you want, it only takes 5 minutes, but it gets a bit 'same-same' after a while. Only when big sunspots arise I do it usually.
s50 is superior in optics, if you notice the arm of the seestar is significant larger scope, like a cell phone camera compared to a DSLR. milkyway shots can be down with your phone,or a DSLR, and also if you don't have neither wait because the second gen is coming
Was waiting for this as want 1 but could not find a comparison, now i have to wait again to see what the S30 brings to the table, will it be better than both!!!!
Great video. I think you're being very kind to the Dwarf with the moon and sun pictures though. The detail on the Seestar is hell of a lot better. It's obvious in the side by side comparison at 14:22, even without zooming in. The Dwarf is really lacking detail, almost like is has been through a blur filter. What is the pixel count in each of the cropped images? Obviously the Dwarf image has been cropped to appear the same size as the Seestar, so does the 8MP image of the Dwarf become less than 2MP of the Seestar when cropped? Thank you for the comparison. It seems like you really need both in an ideal world.
Yes the lack of aperture really hurts it. At 100% resolution after stacking it's decent, but as soon as you zoom in you notice the issue. The Dwarf is not super suitable for these objects due to the magnification factor. More like a gimmick, easy to add to add to the list of features.
You can't put a price tag on a hobby/interest, especially when you have the opportunity to teach and inspire others. What happens when Google fails? You'll have nothing to fall back on.
@@abfutrell I shall have to get a book. More seriously if my hobby was astrophotography I would buy a telescope that made me get involved. Not one that I just prodded an app.
This trend towards an entire astro rig in a box is a bit of a gimmick. Half the fun of the hobby is custom building your own astro rig with your own unique camera/telescope/mount/filter combination, then getting it all to run seamlessly. That’s hugely rewarding. You know that the final image was your creation from the ground up, literally. A white box will never replicate that feeling.
Excellent comparison! Like all telescopes, each has its positive and negative aspects, but both the Seestar S50 and Dwarf 3 are amazing pieces of technology. What a wonderful time we live in!
I agree! I love living in the future.
How did you make this video exactly when I needed it that's crazy 😭😭😭
Don't worry, the delivery time for the Dwarf3 is january 2025, if you order now. 😜Time to watch plenty of videos!
Same here. I was just thinking of this comparison for the past few days, and boom I see this video suggested!
Both devices have different advantages and disadvantages.
I ordered a Dwarf 3, but a Seestar 70 or 80 with a newer better sensor with more resolution would be the burner! I would instantly order it!
Clear skies are so rare that it is always a good idea to take pictures with several devices simultaniously.
Clear skies!
Simple: on sun/moon the Seestar wins due to having 50mm aperture vs 35mm. Aperture is always king for details.
With longer exposure and EQ mode the D3 catches up easily to the Seestar's larger aperture, usually 10 second exposure and high rejected frame count with lower resolution on deepsky nebulas.
Very impressive Heart nebula image with the Dwarf 3.
Of course Seestar is coming out with the S30, still waiting to see what that offers, or maybe a new Seestar S50-2 that also addresses existing issues. Exciting times for the smart telescope astronomers.
Great review but the Dwarf 3 being so new, and you covered an early release version, they are still developing and testing a couple key features that are set to be released consecutively starting end of this month. I’d agree with others that each have their niche, but D3 edges out in a couple key categories and the upcoming features will pull it ahead just based on my use of both devices.
Great video. For me the most annoying aspect of my S50 is the field rotation on an already tight field of view. It is very obvious very quickly and has to be cropped out. EQ mode on the Dwarf solves that issue. You can mount the S50 to go EQ but that's not for the inexperienced. Neither is really excellent for solar, lunar or planetary, they just don't have the FL. I'd liked to have seen you run the same exposure times for each scope and run identical processing on the DSOs.
Thanks for the comparison. I already have an S50 and it seems to have the edge in terms of resolution (arc seconds per pixel) but obviously a smaller field of view. There are not a huge number of objects that require a wider field of view, and the forthcoming mosaic mode looks like it will address that, albeit requiring longer exposure time. I’ve been delighted with the results I’ve got so far. As you say, it is early days for smart telescopes in general and it will be most interesting to see how things develop - the competition is bound to continue to drive further improvements!
Thank you for putting these videos together, Wido. They are not only helpful in seeing the differences between the two devices but are very interesting tutorials to help overcome my anxious resistances to the technical learning curves for them. I ordered my D3 in mid September 2024 and was advised that it would be shipped in January, 2025. Winter skies here in Montreal are frequently crystal clear and the density of the freezing air focuses the moon and stars sharply. I would be a little nervous about taking it out in -10C but my Nikon cameras can handle it so I hope the Dwarf 3 will, too. Both telescopes are technological marvels at an affordable cost.
Very good video. I bought the dwarf 3 a couple of weeks ago and I have to wait for it to arrive at the end of December. It is really quite a challenge to do astrophotography in the Netherlands. I lived in Nijmegen for 4 years and the weather is horrible. Double congratulations for doing astrophotography and for sharing the video. I ask: is it possible to rotate the field of view or is it fixed in both telescopes? Thank you very much. Greetings from Argentina. Javier
Dear Javier, thank you so much for the positive feedback. Nijmegen is a beautiful city, but astrophotography opportunities in Argentina are likely much better. Unfortunately, both telescopes have fixed sensors. It would be great if that changed in future smart scopes. Saludos desde Holanda!
So, the question is for someone wanting to start out in astrophotography do you get a smart telescope which will: minimise learning curve; get results sooner; and give a less frustrating start to the hobby, or do you get a mount that will last you, something like a redcat 51 and a zwo camera but expose yourself to some serious learning and potential early frustration.
The way I see it one gives you a taste that you may soon want to move on from but the other comes with a higher risk of failure and desire to give up although the equipment may well serve you longer should you carry on.
Don't take me wrong, 500 is a good chunk of money. But it's a very cheap first step into a hobby - hobbies are generally not cheap but this one is expensive.
And if you realized that it's not for you, then that's a 500 well spent.
@@RidwanMarian So the smart scope would be money well spent either way? I’m guessing that if you moved on to bigger rigs you might keep the smart scope as a travel setup.
Both are amazing small telescopes and both have their own pros and cons. I want a Seedwarf with the field of view of the D3, the sharpness of the Seestar, a square fov, a double lens like the Dwarf 3, the gigapixel panorama of the Dwarf 3, the app of the Seestar, and so on. Don’t think it will happen any soon 😂
I wouldn't be so sure it won't come anytime soon. ZWO knows the Dwarf is it's main competition and constantly release new products. The S30 is coming out soon and they will come out with a successor to this before long. I wouldn't be surprised if they release an S70 or S80 sometime either. Not saying tomorrow but even a couple years from now I think smart scopes will have come a very long way.
And the quick set-up of the Seestar!
The dwarf just added a ufo mode 🛸 👽
Thanks for the report and I looked at the blog and especially looked at the pictures from PixInsight and the star image is bad, really bad.
You can only wish for the EQ mode for the Seestar Sxx because the mosaic mode is already available in the beta. With two sea stars in overlapping mosaic mode, you are definitely the favorite with APP, Siril and PIX, especially since the material seems to be much better.
Nice review! Can they also do panorama's? Then the seestrat narrow view can be mitigated. Also can you do landscape astro with the wide angle lens from dwarf? Greetings from Doetinchem
Thanks Wido another great video from you.
Dwarf it is. I have absolutely 0 experience with astrophotography, but som limited experience with photography in general. I know photoshop and lightroom well, and it really seems like the dwarf gives you better images to work with as long as you keep in mind to shorten the exposures?
Would love to see some short exposure stacked photos from the dwraf, or did i miss something?
I guess the APP from seestar would fit me better, but i love steep learningcurves :)
I dislike the idea of throwing out the whole scope when a newer model comes out, but I am impressed at the capability for early adopters of this tech. For new or lazy astrophotography, it will be amazing. I will wait 10 years
Well, don't you know a child who needs a birthday gift?
both look awesome.. the d3 seams a little more techy for a newbie but the seestar software makes it a click and go and your done kind of deal.. shame that it cant capture as much as the d3.. though also a shame they both do not have a way to attach other lenses to them may be harder to do that with the d3.. but the seestar looks like you could easy alter the lens to be able to attach say a wide angle lens etc.. not sure if that would be the best way to go.. i am very new to all this.. as this kind of kit used to be way out of my price range when i was into looking at the stars.. great video.. though would loved to have seen the quality of the day time use of the seestar before you finished the video the dwarf 3 looks awesome and i loved the way it can track items in daytime..
thx for this good review! edit in pixinsight bring the full potential for old timer astrophotograph who need a telescope for a trip or don't have an observatory. the dwarf 3 will be a good addition to my other reflector and refractor. and wide fields of view is a good option sometimes. Hope that both company and new will bring support and other release on this market. always a good move for inovation , price and new features. 😁
Great review!
But with the new app/firmware update the Dwarf2 is still good enough for me. Just wait and see how smart scopes evolve…..
How ofter will you take a photo of the sun and moon anyway? Both arent planetary scopes. So the Dwarf 3 will be much more useful.
You can take images of the sun every day if you want, it only takes 5 minutes, but it gets a bit 'same-same' after a while. Only when big sunspots arise I do it usually.
The tripod used for the dwarf was very shaky during the experiment
Did you see the spider in minute 7:28 which started to build its web on your new DWARF3 telescope? 😛
Is there are a cover/bag for the S50? That way we dont have to take it in and out of the travel box.
Dawrf 3 can take milk way pic..wile s50 can't dawrf 3 also have EQ mode
s50 is superior in optics, if you notice the arm of the seestar is significant larger scope, like a cell phone camera compared to a DSLR. milkyway shots can be down with your phone,or a DSLR, and also if you don't have neither wait because the second gen is coming
And waiting for the Seestar S30 review….lol
I want the D3 and the S30 now.
What features are still upcoming for the Dwarf 3?
Was waiting for this as want 1 but could not find a comparison, now i have to wait again to see what the S30 brings to the table, will it be better than both!!!!
Great video. I think you're being very kind to the Dwarf with the moon and sun pictures though. The detail on the Seestar is hell of a lot better. It's obvious in the side by side comparison at 14:22, even without zooming in. The Dwarf is really lacking detail, almost like is has been through a blur filter. What is the pixel count in each of the cropped images? Obviously the Dwarf image has been cropped to appear the same size as the Seestar, so does the 8MP image of the Dwarf become less than 2MP of the Seestar when cropped? Thank you for the comparison. It seems like you really need both in an ideal world.
I prolly would make 2 sessions of nebula - one with short and one with longer exposure and combine them.
I notice the D3 standard stacking is noiser than Seestar
I feel that the Dwarf 3 was quite soft in the sun and moon photos. Rather disappointing.
I thought so too.
Was thinking it may have had to do with seeing conditions, but in that case the Seestar would have had to deal with that as well.
Yes the lack of aperture really hurts it. At 100% resolution after stacking it's decent, but as soon as you zoom in you notice the issue. The Dwarf is not super suitable for these objects due to the magnification factor. More like a gimmick, easy to add to add to the list of features.
Imagine what Galileo would think of all this,man,incedible you can spend 500 quid and get a prestacked picture of andromeda
🎉
There are already literally millions of pictures of every object in the sky. Google is far cheaper than any of these.
You can't put a price tag on a hobby/interest, especially when you have the opportunity to teach and inspire others.
What happens when Google fails? You'll have nothing to fall back on.
@@abfutrell I shall have to get a book. More seriously if my hobby was astrophotography I would buy a telescope that made me get involved. Not one that I just prodded an app.
Hahahahha this video brings out the see star fanboys
Brekke Rapids
This trend towards an entire astro rig in a box is a bit of a gimmick. Half the fun of the hobby is custom building your own astro rig with your own unique camera/telescope/mount/filter combination, then getting it all to run seamlessly. That’s hugely rewarding. You know that the final image was your creation from the ground up, literally. A white box will never replicate that feeling.
Definitely a gimmick. It’s like cars. Most people prefer to build their own from parts.
🤣