Shocking Reasons Why I Am Ditching DCC Sound Decoders
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2022
- In this video I will explain the shocking reasons why I am ditching DCC sound decoders from many of my locomotives as I show you their replacement with non-sound decoders. The debate between sound and non-sound for model railroads still rages on, and I am transitioning away from many of the sound units on my own layout. Let me tell you why.
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See how I set up new DCC decoders using JMRI Decoder Pro in this video: ruclips.net/video/jO42YQ4kqnc/видео.html
I agree. When I first got a sound engine it was fun. But after time I just felt it was more a distraction and sold that engine. People don’t know how much I just like quiet or would rather have nice music in the train room.
Definitely, really hate sound and would never consider using it.
For me, when running solo, I enjoy the added operations benefit of sound--specifically the horn. I also enjoy the ability to turn it off, however, and I NEVER want to listen to 10 sound units at once during an ops session.
More fun to use your imagination 😉
@@kcsthebetterway I used my imagination for 40+ years, I'll take my sound locomotives and sound cars, etc.!! 😜
BUT, I can definitely see where this could be a distraction and annoying in a "club" type setting, it no longer adds to the realism after about 5+ people are running trains all over the layout, and talking!! ha ha
But on my home switching layout, it for sure adds to the fantasy as I operate!
I set sound so the loco can be heard within 5 - 7 ft. If you turn the sound down it does not become a problem on a large and small layout. You also need to TUNE a decoder to the speaker so it does not sound like a toy buzzing around....
I agree with your philosophy, but it comes down to the quality of the speaker and the sound files. Digitrax sound files are not good, and the speakers stink, at least on these older decoders I replaced.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Absolutely, Digitrax sound decoders are "old tech" and the old speakers are poor too. But with a little "tuning" (equalizer and volume) a newer sound decoder will sound very good even in N scale. but you have to turn them down... not full volume. it overdrives the speaker. I agree, in N scale 1 in 2 or 3 consisted locos should/could have sound. In HO (my scale) you want them all sound and with soundtraxx you can change the pitch so they all don't sound the same.
Exactly what I was thinking. And with N-Scale would the rule be 3’ to 4’? Horn should probably be audible at 6’ to 8’. Another thing to learn and teach operators would be how to shut down the locomotive power unit when tied off. Generally half the locomotives are just sitting and idling. If you can turn the noise off by half (plus or minus) and then cut the volume down so you can talk to others across the room I am betting the experience would be more enjoyable. If the decoders can be easily programmed and the speakers sound good then keep the sound. Difficult decoders coupled with muddy sounding speakers then ditch the speaker and decide if the decoder is worth keeping or needs to be replaced.
@@ZooRanger86 2 ways to help control the cacophony of sound from idling locos. power switch for each track that holds locos for "storage" or staging or use instructions on how to MUTE or do a primer mover shutdown when done with the "train". I use PSX breakers. They can turn off power to a block with a DCC accessory command (like throwing a turnout).
After setting the DCC address, the next thing that I always do is turn the sound down/off.
Hi, Heath. Yes, I reduce the volume on mine as well. The the sound units I do have, if someone in an ops session is running sound and another operator 10' away can hear it, it is too loud.
HO Modeler here. I find that setting a standards works great in DCC. I found that turning down the sound is best, and disabling auto start makes a world of a difference. I generally reduce the sound by 50% in my ACes and they still sound great. Plus people can think :). Call up the locomotives I want and then turned it off when not needed.
When I was getting back into the hobby, sound was what really grabbed my attention and confirmed my choice to go DCC over DC. But it was impressive how quickly the novelty wore off. Like others have said, after programming an address the next change is turning the sound off. I do use the horns regularly and try to be prototypical, though I have the volume turned way down.
I like LOW sound when operating alone. Like you say, the secret is keep it low...and I don't want to listen to 10 sound locos at once during an operating session.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Good heavens no, more than 1 or 2 sound engines, even with volume cranked as low as I can get it, is too much in my small layout room. Doesn't help that the room shares a wall with my neighbor's 5 year old daughter, so I'm a bit self-conscious of too much noise.
I wish EVERYONE would learn how to do this!!
Agree totally. The older Digicrap sound decoders sux compared to the Atlas Gold series that I have. Dont even get me started on the MRC sound bargain equipped units. I will phase all of them out as needed to the mobile only.
I agree that sound is a nice novelty, but personally, I don't think sound "scales" well. To me, having sound kind of takes away from the realism and makes an engine sound a bit more toy-like.
I enjoy the sound sometimes when operating alone, but not a fleet of sound during an operating session for sure.
I agree - someone said sound is not scalable- and most of what I have heard are toy like -especially the horns and bells; and many people run them too load. One reason for me to stick with DC.
As my layout got bigger, I found that my priorities changed. Sound is certainly fun, but reliability and pulling power is a lot more important to me. I run mostly Katos these days, although I do have a few ScaleTrains RCs for photography or just showing the layout to guests. It's analogous to track choice - Atlas Code 55 looks great and has prototypical tie spacing, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter if things don't run reliably. Peco has the wrong spacing for US railroads, but the turnouts are absolutely bulletproof. So you compromise a bit in terms of appearance, but you get a much better performing railroad in return.
A several months ago I converted my small HO layout to DCC. I converted an old Protot-2000 SW1200 using a sound decoder and was very pleased with the results. I already had purchased a DCC Walthers Plymouth ML-8 which does not have sound, and installed a non-sound decoder and keepalive in an old Bachmann Spectrum GE 44-tonner. I enjoy the SW with sound, but the primary benefit of DCC to me is the improved slow speed motor control over DC operation. It made a huge difference for all three locos, which can now crawl slowly without any intermittant loss of power. Plus, I also now have control over headlights, which can run bright or dimmed at any speed.
Agree .Here in the UK the price of sound decoders is horrendous in excess of £100 plus the cost of the locomotive. I have a few on my Scottish based layout but the noise of several locos running round the layout was really bad now I don't turn on the sound .Bliss !!
My old railway circa 1980 Hornby and 1990 Roco was non digital. Even to this day I still don't understand what they do.
You seem like a well experienced modeler and I’d like to ad just a little of my experience for food for thought. I run my units at both home layout and club and many of us find that as a model gets older and is used more, the motors will slowly degrade either by design and/or lack of proper lubrication maintenance. When a motor becomes less efficient it creates more resistance that puts more load on the motor power management circuits and as we know, it affects all PC components in the chain until one of them gives out. Then there’s track power, if the power fed to the track has a ‘dirty’ sin wave then we all know what’ll eventually happen to the power management/distribution components on the PC and sometimes power boosters can be not quite right or the polarity is crossed at junction blocks but people rarely know about it since they never stop at the block connection until weaker decoders go over it and stops then burns. I wish I knew more about what works best to isolate decoders from poor power waves and polarity switching/isolation but I’m still learning. There’s soooo many manufacturers out there now and each year something new is on the market and we then have to go through the long process of hoping it’s reliable enough for what it’s advertised for.
Thanks for the video and your time.
We each enjoy the hobby differently and that makes sense. However the new Kato drop in ESU board and a little Sugar Cube can be done with no milling or mods in short order. The performance is really hard to beat and I set up a fade button so I can quiet them down if I want just a little sound for the effect
All well and fine, but as I said, I have enough sound for my needs, and I have a couple more "sound ready" units I can easily upgrade. I'm not telling anyone to get rid of their sound, just showing what I did with THES particular units and why.
I love my lok sound. I dont do alot of switching just rail fan running. The first thing I do when getting a new engine is to bring down the master volume to scale. CV is set to 75. And last I change f3 to lower the volume down to 25%. At that I can control the volume as the engines pass by then turn it down to hear the cars go by.
Great video topic!
I'm an HO guy and have friends with larger layouts. One of them has hearing issues and keeps his sound decoders TOO LOUD! Most of them adjust the sound lower but still have a yard full of sound locos --- I'm building a layout and am installing toggle switches on all my sidings and roundhouse tracks to turn the power off to keep the total sound reasonable (AND I'm going to keep my volume settings lower). This also helps prolong the decoder life, and will help if trouble shooting shorts, etc...
I enjoy hearing about decoder developments in N-scale. We HO modelers have it better than ever, but it can still be challenging to squeeze a keep-alive into an HO loco.
Sound is completely a personal decision. Some really enjoy it, others hate it. I fall somewhere in the middle.
ESU recently released a drop in sound decoder for Kato narrow body diesels and recently announced drop ins for wide bodied diesels. Soundtraxx also makes a drop in sound decoder for Kato wide body diesels now. However you might still need to mill in order to fit a speaker into certain models.
The Soundtraxx board is only for Kato E/F units. The ESU board is promising, but still requires soldering and, in most cases, milling for the speaker...and, as I said, I have enough sound for my own purposes and a couple "sound ready" units I can easily upgrade. I'm not telling anyone to dump all their sound nor that sound is undoable. This is just what I decided to do with these units and why.
I am in 100% agreement on all of this. Milling a locomotive for speakers is a pain. I may have sheared a kato body in half while milling and had to order a replacement body. If I install sound in the future. It will be ESU with sugar cube speakers.
Agreed on the ESU sound. Soundtraxx sound is impressive as well, but it is far from N scale friendly so far.
Well done Ron. I went several years before my first sound decoder, now I have six with sound (out of 34). The racket is unbelievable, the novelty has worn off, and F8 is a really good friend! I don't blame you a bit, and i will be doing the same thing when the time comes.
My Train layout is in my living room -- I have two "Lights and sounds" DCC locomotives in my hybrid environment. I think they're awesome, but they also suck as they're quite loud to the point of drowning out conversation. If i had all 4 lines running with locos with sound i'm pretty sure my dog would pack her bags and leave. I am so glad both of the units i have have a mute function.
Hi Ron, great topic. Another reason for me personally not to have sound decoders is that I am hard of hearing and the extra noise generated by multiple sound units would make communications in an operating session difficult for me.
That is a great point, John. Thanks for sharing it.
Great Video I thought I was the only person who did not need sound. I do have about 4 locos with sound. Keep up the great work.
Sound chips and all the lighting capabilities are what sets DCC apart in my mind, and I'll never go back. However, can understand why. Reliability's why I always add a keep alive circuit and some of the tricks others have mentioned. The other thing I do is ads quick disconnect plugs for the shell lighting and a 2-pin power connections between my engines. Haven't had nary a problem, but I will add the caviar that I model in HO so there's usually a lot more room for everything.
You hit the nail on the head--HO. When keep-alive capacitors are standard on N scale decoders...well, that will be a game changer. Unfortunately miniaturization and affordability have not brought that benefit to us yet.
Nice job. I had a pile of locos stacked up for various repairs and upgrades. I finally dug in got it mostly done. I had weird speed anomalies on several. Took my time going through CV’s and cleared up problems. I felt good afterwards and got stuff earning it’s keep. Sound is easy to get addicted to. I now have a couple sound locos on every district on layout. That is tolerable. Agreed too many can get on your nerves. Have a great day.
I agree about adding or removing sound decoders & I'm a HO modeler. I haven't heard a throady ALCO, only in G scale, but I have mostly steam. To me all diesels (in small scales) sound like jet engines at RPM. In my club guys got diesels because of the weight inside to pull long trains, only to having to cut out weight to accommodate the speaker. You right about so much sound. Everyone has set their volume to max (to the point of over driving the speaker) to drown out someone else's engine. My G scale steam have sound, then again I'm outdoors amongst grass & dirt, not very reflective of sound.
Like your reasoning about why to sound or not. Enjoyed the video.
I am totally with you on sound decoders. I go in the train room to relax and NOT to be water boarded with sound !!!
So True!!!!
Hey, Mike. I agree. I turn the volume low on the sound units I do have. I enjoy the sound for a while, but am glad I have the ability to turn it off as well. I certainly don't want a fleet of sound during an operating session.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Me either. I would be happy with a bell and horn
I agree Ron, It's almost cheaper to buy a Locomotive with sound anymore. Bob
Ron, THANK YOU, you are speaking what I have thought and said for years about IT'S a novelty nothing more. Thank you for bringing this issue to light. Performance is key to my model rr not expensive not great sounding decoders
Being high function autistic, I find sound very distracting, even irritating to the point I have to walk out for their mood altering effect on me. 15 years ago, I pulled all my DCC out anyway. Fifty years in the hobby have emphasized the ease of basic DC, coupled with the ability to hear my locos actually"work" the grade, or pull a long consist, is much more pleasurable than what comes with the hobby as it is practiced today.
While I only collect engines as I don't have a layout to run them on, I always go with non-sound as they're much cheaper than sound-equipped.
I absolutely agree with you. I’ve had it with Digitrax sound decoders. I have had great success with Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 and Locsound, and continue to use them when I can. I also only install only one sound for consists or ABA (etc.) loco setups. You just made me feel much better about all the same issues I’ve been experiencing. Keep ‘‘em coming Ron!
Hi Randy. Thanks for the comment. I love Soundtraxx sound, but they are not real N scale friendly so far. ESU is getting there slowly for N scalers.
I model in N scale. Yes there are ready off the shelf locomotives with sound but they all have a draw back of one sort or another. Most N scale layouts tend to not take up the space our HO friends require so many never go DCC. I just recently expanded another 32 square feet bringing my modeling area to 64 square feet. I may look into DCC now but for sound since my whole layout is all Kato I have decided to go with the Kato Sound Box. It is very adaptable and provides very realistic stops and starts with any power pack. It also has the capability to power satalite speakers that can be placed around the layout and a number of different sound cards for different generations of both steam and diesel locomotives are available. That includes both Japanese and American locomotives! Better yet the price does not break the bank!
I agree, I am going to have most of my HO locomotives run silent. If a locomotive came with sound it likely will retain it, but for some brass engines I own they will run silent. Instead I am recording ambient sounds in the open-prairie area where I live, which includes the CNR's northern mainline roughly 250 meters away. Typically I'll record at night when sound quality is enhanced by little wind nor much traffic noise. Through overhead speakers I hope to create an ambient natural-outdoors feeling with the odd train running through in the distance during my operating sessions.
I just have a little 4x8 set. H.O Dc until 4-5 months ago. I like the sound so far. Lol
I have never been that impressed by the sound quality in N scale. However, are there other solutions? For instance, does anyone sell a sound "slug"; a motor-less locomotive filled with decent sound equipment? You would lose the power but would get a two loco consist with maybe much better sound? Or a car with decent sound equipment on board? A lot of trains have an old hopper car right after the locomotives for various safety reasons. Maybe you could stuff a decent sound system in there.
I agree, the n scale sound quality just isn’t very good. It’s to be expected from such small speakers. Two layouts ago I had a full roster of n scale sound equipped locos. When I moved I sold everything and did a small HO layout in DC using a Kato sound box that I hooked to a set of computer speakers with a subwoofer. I will use the same setup on my new n scale I’m just starting. Truth be told, I can’t even justify dcc for what I want to model and the way I want to operate.
Good video. I am ditching all digitrax sound for non sound as well. The only engines with sound I am re installing TSU-KN1 from soundtraxx for my P42s. Thanks.
Good to see someone else that sound is not a priority. It gets anoying after a few minutes. Especially with multiple locomotives running. .
Good to see you back Ron! Like the information in these past couple of videos. Also looking forward to the speed matching lesson coming up! I did have one question. How is the progress on the new sections of the layout?
Hey, Tim. Well, progress, like videos, has been pretty much a stop for the past few months, buy you will see me getting back to it very soon.
I kinda have tired of sound, but jumped on board when N-Scale availability first surfaced. Have Atlas Gold and Broadway Limited sound locomotives, but more often than not, mute the sound. I like the sound of the wheels on the track more than engines sound. Just my preference.
Spotify has some very relaxing train sound tracks. I play them through my Bose sound dock when I’m running trains.
I agree also I have found it's hard to adjust the volume with older decoders.
Great video Ron! I have a handful of locos with sound and a handful without and enjoy running both quite a bit. Some of the DC locos will get sound decoders and speakers in time.
Great video man I feel like you're one of the few guys I can truly relate to. I've been in the hobby for 30 years I got out of it for about 10 years and just got back into it and it's crazy how all the technology has advanced. I have still never owned a locomotive with sound just regular silent DCC. I've been debating getting some sound boards and installing them in some locomotives and messing around with them but I'm almost so used to not having sound that it's not a priority. I would definitely rather have 100% solid running engines then having sound and having them run or sound like crap. I have always had issues with DCC,I did all my wiring right and I try to keep my track clean but I have it set up in an unfinished basement and it seems like it's impossible to keep it clean enough to never have an issue,I would imagine I would be having issues with sound. And I have a couple young kids in the house so a lot of times the only time I get to play with my trains is at night when there all in bed so nobody wants to hear locomotive engines running at one 2 o'clock in the morning But any way best wishes happy railroading !
thank you for your detailed video
one sound with non-sound loco as safety cost
Lucky I'm gonna run both dcc and dc on my future layout just need to get it done soon
Hi Ron, your videos are always informative.
Have you considered using the SurroundTraxx DSP80 multi-channel surround sound system for sound on your system?
i got back in the hobby last year after a hiatus since at least 2008... i ditched DCC altogether, the DCC locos are just TOO EXPENSIVE... my layout is framed around 1 loco operation so i can get away with no DCC
Everything you said makes perfect sense, and I understand your choice. Good job!
Thanks, Deryk.
Solid video - thank you Ron! Lookin forward to your speed-matching vid
As one who wears hearing aids, sound is very annoying. I agree Ron. Sound is great if you have non train friends visiting the layout but operating the layout I could do without and maybe just have a Ron’s Trains & Things video playing in my hearing aids. 😂
HA! Great idea! 😂 Love it.
hi Ron i have found it hard to find n scale here in Aussie with sound i dont have any with sound its nice to hear why you have removed sound As i model UK N scale its harder to find sound locos . thanks for the great video have been watch your channel for a while and enjoy watching . Regards Greg
Hi Greg. Thanks for your comment. I know getting nearly any supplies cross boarders is a challenge, and especially so right now. Good luck to you.
I agree, I don't need to have sound in all my engines. In fact it can be quite costly. One of the reasons I do buy some engines with DCC/Sound is to reduce the number of engines I have to install decoders in. I would be happy if manufacturers would offer silent engines with a dcc decoder which would cost less, but manufacturers don't seem to want to do that. Some years back, Atlas did offer Silver Series DCC engines that had decoders but no sound. That was a one off I guess.
I can understand why you ditched the sound on these locos as you're modelling N scale. I wouldn't bother with sound myself if I were modelling N scale unless it was factory fitted, my eyesight, fingers and sanity wouldn't allow it!
It's hard enough for my HO scale locos! I have a small O scale layout too and those locos are an absolute joy to fit sound to. Lots of space and room for a big speaker for incredible sound!
I wish more locos were like BLI and you can just double tap the F8 key and the volume goes down. I love the horns and bells but it’s gotten to the point where I can only have one on at a time. Not to mention it’s about 100$ cheaper for no sound! I enjoyed your video!
Having horns/whistles and such would still be a nice to have thing, even if running sounds are off. I’m using Märklin sound decoders and wish the diesel running sounds would not be so high pitched.
Hey Ron, I just found CV131. Zero it out and no more Prime Mover racket. The horn and bell still work, so you can have your cake and eat it too !!! Cheers
Some modelers like the added sound, some modelers prefer to not have sound. It’s all personal preference.
My self, I am sitting at 20 sound equipped n scale loco. Only 6 are factory installed, the rest done by me. And I have 5 more to do.
It’s like the old Ford vs Chevy debate. “ I like this”, “ I like that”
After researching and reading other view points, you can not pay me to put the junk sound decoders from Digitrax in my locos. I run strictly ESU Lok sound.
Esu boards along with my Proto throttle can’t be beat in my opinion,, notice “ my opinion “
Some people just want to run trains, some people choose to put for extra effort into achieving what ever they see fit.
To each their own
Agreed. This video was just about what I have chosen to do with THESE locomotives, not telling anyone else what they should or should not do.
I'm with you on this one, Ron. At first, I thought sound would be somewhat of a necessity, but after getting my first locomotive with sound, it started annoying me. On a smaller layout like mine, I just don't need it. Like you said, a good running locomotive is more important to me now.
same here! I have some factory installed sound locos, but I usually turn the sound off after a few times around. I just find it tinny sounding and annoying, especially when you consist a few. I enjoy playing some music I enjoy or even some Pentrax dvd's I have during a session.
I'm the same way I have units (SP SD70m) that have sound in them. I enjoyed those units very much and thought that adding sound to them would make them even better, it was a night mare, the ran poorly, would not properly consist with other units and the sound was just irritating and I ended up take them off the layout. I have replaced those sound decoders with non sound it two of them and they are now back on the layout. will be doing the other 2 units very soon.
I am happy with the operations and consisting with ESU sound decoders, unlike the Digitrax ones. Like I said, they are less sensitive to every speck of dust, they don't have to restart every time, and they just play better with others.
Great information for not getting sound. Thanks for sharing. Roy.
I hope I didn't come across as completely anti-sound. I enjoy a handful of sound locos I have if the volume is low and they are not all running at once. It is great for solo operations and for video.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Not at all, Ron. I understand completely your reasoning. You just give a realistic perspective on the subject for which I’m grateful. Roy.
Living in Europe, I usually have the option to buy locomotives without sounds, and plug in a decoder of my own choice. I usually go for the no-sound option. Sounds are fun when you have to impress friends and family with your railroad. I never use them otherwise. Personally I prefer light features and other features that makes operating my layout more realistic.
I really enjoy some light features as well, especially rule 17 lighting and flashing ditch lights.
I had a problem with sounds after a while the sounds were loud and annoying so I tried non sound but then all I heard was the mechanism so I decided to just lower to volume on sound decoders so I can have a little sound just not as loud and annoying.
And that is another plus for HO scale, I've wondered about the quality of N scale decoders, and this helps a lot in answering that question.
Bear in mind, these were old decoders. New Loksound decoders in N scale are fantastic.
I have several N Scale non-sound decoders in my HO locos. Some switchers have little extra room for HO decoders.
This is why a lot of locomotives with sound decoders from the factory have function 8 bound to mute.
Like you I'm not all that excited about sound, some for the same reason as you said but because of an injury I had a number of years ago. I do like and have some sound but only because they had it in them when I got them and I like to use them when I show off the people 😂🤣 to people that are not train enthusiasts, they are so surprised at all of it then hopefully I get them into trains 😀
Digitrax sound decoders were always regarded as low quality. But I am surprised that you didn't fill the speaker void with some weight to improve the locomotive traction and electrical connectivity.
I was lucky enough to get back into the hobby after DCC and sound made some drastic improvements. Everything I have is newish with ESU and a couple of the “better” SoundTraxx decoders that I enjoy hearing.
What I can’t stand, is having several locomotives all putting out the same frequency and cadence of engine noise. When they’re synced up it’s very unrealistic, since that simply does not occur in “nature”. Three SD40-2’s for instance will all have a different RPM, pitch, and cadence, whether it was 1980 or 2022. This is why I like the ESU decoder, since you can pretty much do whatever you want.
Hi Ron, Great video. My layout is in a 5 1/2 x 14 foot room (there are probably bigger walk-in closets). When you have 2 or 3 locos making noise it can get maddening, it doesn't take long before I turn off all the sound and say AHHHH. Keep up the great work Ron.
Sal (Florida)
I agree with you it's a nice novelty and I'd rather have better performing locomotives even if they don't have sound. Honestly, I operate my railroad by myself and enjoy listening to music while I do so. I'd rather use the available space for "keep alive" components.
I agree on the keep alive. I'm ready for those to truly come to N scale.
I thought about adding sound to more locos until I realized that I only used sound when I had a visitor. It just wasn't worth it. Btw, I use a sound enabled steam loco for debugging my track. I can hear the cutouts and know what needs work
Back in 'the day' (80's & 90's) we used to have an external sound system mounted above or below our layout (s). Any thoughts about going that route on today's layouts? With the cost of dcc & sound locos pushing $300 and more, just wondering about alternatives.
I think what sound is good at is shunting starting and powering up and depot idling but cruising on a circuitous layout dcc sound becomes very irritating. Im with many others it got me back into the hobby but now i have no sound fitted locos and can spend my money saved on other stuff.
More bells and whistles the more added problems = 💰.
Brought up on the old analogs ,the sound drives me insane and I can't justify the price on the circuitry when they're made by the pennies.
I'll stick to what I got.
Yeah, sound is a novelty. I got one of those Athearn Genesis fantasy Chessie GEVOs, I got it with all the bells and whistles to treat myself. But for regular day-to-day model railroading I am more than content running non-sound DCC or even good ol’ DC.
Same here I started with DC then slowly went to Dcc, but I don't use all the features in Dcc I'm just as content running with or without sound
I agree with your sentiments. Loved DCC when it first came out and then when sound came along, I thought this is great. But when I lost most of my hearing sound became a big distraction. And today's modelers have the sound jacked up so high it is unrealistic in my opinion. With real railroads when the engines pass the crossing the engine sounds are not heard any longer. I have over 80 diesel engines and only 20 have decoders without sound, and one steam engine with sound. The diesels will remain soundless as the noise would drive me insane, but for steam it seems more real in my estimation. If modelers had a way of turning the sound down then fine. Although, I could use a horn without the diesel engine sound. That would be cool.
Yes, sometimes I would love to have a horn with no other sound just for the operational advantages of the horn.
The sound from locs are always bad because of the tiny speakers, they should make a system where you just place some speakers near on under the setup that produces all the sounds of the entire setup.
They do make that. Most notable at present, BLIs Rolling Thunder, which is sort of a hybrid system, but there are others. Check it out here: ruclips.net/video/iyOgerUi3Wc/видео.html
I model in N scale. I do like the sound but not on all locomotives. I have 3 running at one time and if all had sound running with sound I would go nuts it's just to much noise. I would say I am at 50% with and without sound. Granted all my locomotives have modern sound decoders so they run and sound great. My ESU locomotives I have had done at my local train hobby shop.
When you put these speakers into the Kato locos, are you milling out the frame down on the bottom to get them to fit? I ended up getting a digitrax board with sound and keep alive to try it out and you're right that there really isn't much space. How did you "mill" out the metal? What did you use to do that? I don't really have many power tools, so I'm looking for a simple way. I do have a dremel though. My speaker looks different than those ones though. More oval/oblong shape. Like the one at 6:16, but with the GE ES44DC, the lighting junk in the front just doesn't make room for the capacitor, and it won't fit in the end with the speaker. I figure if I need to, I can probably extend the capacitor with extra wire? Or the speaker?
I agree wholeheartedly. Thanks
Honestly I like dcc sound decoders, but only on engines I am enthusiastic about, if it’s a cheap thing that looks cool at a train show it’s not a deal breaker.
Good video, I couldnt agree more with your reasoning.
Yes Sound is nice but like you said it can be overpowering and annoying. And the price is much higher on sound vs non sound decoders. I personally have 2 locos with sound at the moment. and 2 without. More to install but not sure about sound. HO scale.
ESU's sound decoders are about 3x the price of their non-sound decoders (I bet other mfrs are similar), so there's a significant cost saving if you're changing 6 locos! Did you keep the keep-alive capacitors Ron, or are they fine without?
There are no keep alive capacitors. The capacitors in these decoders are for powering the sound only. If they had keep alive capacitors I would have simple turned the sound off and kept running them.
What a great topic! Arguably, ESU Loksound Decoders are the best running DCC Decoders on the market in my experience. You can mute the sound anytime you want with one button. My current locomotives sound superb for HO Scale, but they have two to four speakers installed. The quality of the actual sound recording is a huge factor as well. Yes, they lack low end Bass but they sound great at lower volumes. Furthermore, N Scale is not the platform to judge sound integrity when it comes to model trains. I love N Scale as well, but the size works against the modeler in more ways than one . . . unless you are into the big "silent" visual vista. Cheers ~ Boomer.
Hey, Boomer. Thanks for the comment. I don't object to sound, even N scale sound. I certainly agree with you regarding ESU decoders. I do object to poor sound and poorly running decoders, and these were both. I don't feel the need to have sound in everything on my layout, and I still have several sound units. I even plan a video installing an ESU Loksound decoder soon. On an unrelated note, I have been enjoying your series on burried track. Great detailed tutorials.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Thanks for the reply. I have several units without sound as well. Sometimes it is nice to run trains quietly for sure. I would concur that poor quality DCC Decoders have no place in my locomotives as well. In fact, I tear them out and replace them with the one I prefer. Cheers ~ Boomer.
Ron, I absolutely agree with your logic about performance vs sound, great video
If you primarily run at shows, sound is wasted because of the ambient room noise. I find that when operating on HO home layouts, the owners turn on flange squeal and brake shoes, and also momentum on switchers. Ugh.
You can have too much sound but if you’re by yourself and switching it is pretty cool Running roundy round would get annoying
I agree, Marcel. Solo ops is when I like sound best.
I think the sound is cool every once in a while, and i have pleanty of engines with sound but i rarely turn on the sound because id rather have the quiet when im running trains.
I am in the process of upgrading an older Kate EMD SD70ACe to an ESU sound decoder. The decoder is a direct drop in replacement for the digitrax. I recent got a matching Kate with the ESU pre installed, I like the sound but loved the more realistic starting and stopping with the delays it came with as well. I looked inside the new loco and realized I should be able to install sound with no modifications. The sugar cube speaker I got is a little too large but streamlined backstop has some smaller speakers so I have ordered them to try, I am confident I will get it in with only having to solder on the speaker and an led for the rear light. The biggest downside for me is I am going to need the LokProgrammer to get the LED for the rear light working as DecoderPro is unable to do that for me.
I just got a new Bachmann locomotive with the Econami sound decoder. I have to admit I quite like it. I did program the overall sound down to half since it was a bit loud.
Same with my locos, love sound but after a while it gets to noisy for my. Haha do i get old ?? All my recent buys got non sound decoders and enjoying just listen to the rail klickitiklack. So i'm full on your page
This sure was great info. But you know so far I am not there yet lol!!! But by watching this one I will be :").!!! Great video and see you later:)!!!!
Sounds can be potentially great if you put in scale sound systems speakers, they are more to scale and realistic than their high frequency counterparts, keep in mind that most people still cant get over that post 2000 era DCC non sound fever. Lukily I found that not a lot of companies make horrible sound locomotives in HO scale anymore, thanks to new and advanced tech, if I were to get any brand and ignore the high level of detail, id get Walthers or Atlas, for detail accuracy id go with Athearn or Scaletrains, with Kato just being able to run like tanks and they now also have DCC and sound.
Well ok Tin Lizzy.. Mr. Ron this is Ron & that Was interesting coming from DC or Starting out with it I was so use to No Sound then I upgraded my Outer Route to DCC and I purchased my Santa Fe SDP40F's I got Hooked on sound pretty hard but your are very correct too much of is like putting up with a litter of Kittens🐈 at Din Din Time & I have a Deep love for my 4 legged friends.. But I'm like you milling for Speakers is not an easy thing to just up in do, if the Manufacturer's like Kato or a Side company could mill then sell the Frames Hobbiest could add in the components I like Atlas's approach to sound Engines you can take a Silver Series Engine A DC Engine that's Decoder upgradable put in a Lok Sound Decoder that may be Programed or easily Programed and your Set i pulled out a Lok Sound Decoder that was in DCC Engine I put it in a Santa Fe Kodachrome Engine and because the way Atlas has there motor tabs set up i didn't even half to use Kapton Tape.. But I think these Manufacturers are making Great strides to Answer our Needs and the Hobby more Enjoyable..
Great Video Mr. Marsh keep em' coming I enjoyed all of it🤗 Allen D..
I certainly agree regarding Atlas. As an N scaler, their "Sound Ready" approach is a great help to the modeler, especially the majority who do not own milling machines nor want to start carving into the frame of a brand new $100+ locomotive. Personally, I enjoy sound for solo operations, AS LONG AS it also operates smoothly. These Digitrax decoders sounded bad and did not operate well.
Well if ok Too add this in.. And others please chime in here.. my thing that I wanted sound was to mask the Motor Hum or Shell noise that Some Engines would produce when Running down the Track especially in Curves the noise would increase then go Away on the Straights.. Course I probably could lessen these Sounds by using Foam maybe cork or Foam Roadbed and Kato's Unitrack being how its made might help Ambient the Noises but listening to humming Engines or Noisy Engine shells can get to the best of ya As Well.. Once on my KATO P-42 Amtrak I put some Foam into the Shell it muted the Noise somewhat but it was still there.. On Sound Engines or sound Equipped Decoders they tend to loose power and drop out there sound unless equipped with a keep a live, I think that is Why Atlas on there Trucks wet to Wired power leads that tap into the Frames of the Locomotive I think Kato and some other Manufacturers should follow in the Same Direction.. And what I like About Lok Sound they do sell non sound decoders or if you happen to buy a sound decoder but decide to not have it sound you could skip wiring in the Speaker but you'd certainly have the speed control that these decoders are so famous for...
I have turned the volume way down on a few… I really like the less noise too.
I'm pretty much in your camp, too much sound is a distraction. A friend rigged up a b unit, an express car and a freight car with sound decoders which I can run with any non sound loco if I eant sound.
Now i want to make my own circuit, and record live train sound to place in it. But i have too many hobbies already :/
Appreciate your excellent video and opinions. After the initial experience with sound operations I found too much noise resulting less enjoyment especially during operationing sessions.
I would have to agree with you especially for n scale.
Great video Ron 👍🚂🚂🚂🚂🚂