The inverter from the solar farm will be grid tied and will need to see mains voltage, won't work in island mode. Also given the low power usage and importance of the alarm systen i would just keep it on the mains. Saves the anxiety of questioning whether you switched the supply back over.
A manual changeover switch sounds like a recipe for disaster - what sort of a routine are you going to use for switching it? You'll have to constantly be aware of how charged the battery is and what the weather forecast is. If you're out on a job and the day isn't as sunny as you thought it was going to be you might end up losing power to your CCTV and alarm or have to travel back to the unit just to switch back to mains. Sounds like a right royal pain.
Sigenergy do a three phase stackable hybrid inverter and battery system with gateway that acts as a UPS - we’re installing one this week. Could be a good solution for you.
Also looking to do a similar thing for my shed which has a perfect south facing roof which would take a good handful of panels. Would it be enough to generate power for my hot tub.... not sure? Glad you confirmed what I thought about regulations - nothing about it from what I could find (not a spark but I do hold a part P certificate). Seems to be a lot of DIY kits out there, so will be following what you do here Nick!
For the inverter, the Growatt MIC TL-X range have a very low minimum input voltage of 50V. I've just installed two of the 750W ones at home, each with a pair of 500W modules connected. They're the lowest input voltage I found easily. Most inverters are primarily powered from the DC side, so whilst they won't output anything without the AC connected they should start up and display something provided you've got above the startup voltage. On the island stuff, Voltimum did a webinar this week called "Battery Island mode, we are all at sea" which it might be worth you looking up.
you could use that 1-0-2 switch to command the coils on 3 phase contactors (1 for grid, 1 for solar); not sure about the uk regs if it allows a manual switchover without a interlocking feature in the setup; since it’s a small install, you could have a bluetti inverter power the main board, all the time, pv and grid both connected to the inverter as inputs, set the bluetti in pv priority mode and it will handle everything automaticaly - with enough sun and baterry capacity it will almost never use power from the grid
I agree, especially as Nick said there nothing in that unit to need three phases, then when he leaves he can restore it. What are you going to use to mount the panels to the unit wall Nick? I'm surprised the landlord will let you damage to metalwork for the rails, guessing you will be using rivet nuts, or are you going to make up some sort of floor mounted frame to take the majority of the weight. I waas intrigued to see the KT66DL on your bench as this time last year you bought the Megger X1. I must have missed what happened to the Megger or are you running both? I reaslly like my KT66DL and Ive got one of the packout boxes for the tester and leads bag, KEWEVA and 4 trays for lockoff kits etc.
Use Victron, it can run as UPS without any extra bits or get G98/G99 to grid tie. Victron inverters can be paralleled to make a 3PH system sharing the same battery bank if required further down the line.
If you don't have any three phase equipment bin of the 3phase and link through l1. Then you'll need a battery charge controller and inverter for off grid side there are some fairly cheap charge controller/inveter combos oilut there worth a punt. Just make sure the charge controller can take the input power from the panels lots of more campervan level stuff cant take a lot in which case you can use multiple.
Ok, wild card ... check if you really need a three phase supply in the unit. If you don't, either ask the DNO to remove two of them (That'll reduce your standing charge for starters), or set up your board so two phases are isolated and not used. Now you've reduced your solar needs to essentially a single phase domestic set up.
I have 3 phase at home which I want to keep to allow for faster charhing of electric cars in the future. When I wired my solar up, i did it so that when the changeover switch is used it effectively converts my system to single phase which is fed from the hybrid inverter/battery. The rest of the time, i have a grid tie inverter on a single phase. In France you can feed in up to 3kW on a single phase of a 3 phase syatem and the smart meter counts total power usage across all 3 phases, so as long as I'm producing more on one phase than is being used in total by all 3 phases then my net consumption is 0.
Personally you're trying to do too much in a single system (from from an off grid / hobbyiest system to a full 3 phase!), decide whether you want to go AC or DC coupled, and single phase or 3 phase. I started with a DC coupled off grid system, which got a G99 approval, in the future may do AC coupled as and when neccesary.
Could you use an automatic transfer switch like what are used for lifts when there is a generator backup? I don’t know enough about them but it might be worth looking into. Or, if it’s only for a lower load could you use a contactor with a 2 way switch that is then controlled by a Switchbot bot that is maybe linked to a light intensity monitoring device as in the Switchbot curtain or could you alternatively use a photocell output to energise the contractor to switch the supply to the solar when it is light enough, depending on the settings of the photocell? Or steal back your brothers car charger and use the circuitry from that.
Ok so. I installed my own solar system and before I did, had to do a lot of research. Since having my system which is small 3.1 kwp i’ve learned a lot. 3 455w panels is the absolute minimum for a Growatt min3000 inverter which switches on at 100v but will run once it’s on to 80v i think. I ended up adding a 4th panel to get it to turn on earlier in the morning and run later in the evening. I got that used off ebay for about £250. The smaller the inverter the lower the switch on voltage is what i learned. I should have got a 2500w one really. If you series the panels to get the voltage you need then they will only perfom as well as the worst panel in the string so adding a broken one in there is a bad idea. You should put all the broken ones on a seperate mppt if you have one. The exception to this is if you use optimisers then you can put them all on one string. I have 7 x 455w panels in total with tigo optimisers on a growatt 3000w inverter. 4 are south facing and 3 are north facing. I started off with them on seperate mppt’s then got optimisers and combined them both into one string it’s normal in the uk to have more w in panels than the rating on the inverter, which seems strange, but what you loose when the inverter clips (maxes out)in summer and high sun you gain from the earlier start up and later finish. Hope that helps. Just an electrical engineer (not a house basher)
I saw someone with solar panels talk about how some will shut off with a small area of the panel is covered/obstructed I'd check to see if those panels do that before installing
Hi Nick, I was forced to install my solar system a few months ago. I purchased a hybrid inverter, 5kw battery, panels and mounting system and struggled to find anyone prepared to install it. Ended up fitting myself sort of off grid! It is all up and running and I am already looking to Improve. I would be happy to have a call to give you honest information on my journey so far. Have you considered the micro inverter route at all? Let’s just say I started looking at optimisers to get a handle on my crazy PV generation as one of my improvements and found this would have been a perfect plug and play over the single inverter and panel strings? FYI I am not an electrician but I am happy to share what I have discovered and where I why I am already looking to upgrade after such a short time of system ownership..
You should switch your supply over to single phase, your standing charges will be much less. You’re probably paying as much for standing charge as for consumed power!
@@NBundyElectrical guy above has a good idea 💡 give cory a call get a joint video going will make for a good watch 😊 only problem I can see with the manual switch is any thing on L2 or L3 will be out of action while your off grid and you will have to be thinking about when you need to change over all time as battery's die 😉
That little bit of shade on the left of the panels will be dropping your voltage quite a lot, when I did the course they showed us the Volts produced in full sun then when he put just his hand over part of the panel it dropped by about a quarter, the full panel needs to be in full sun
Haha, we all know who you're trying to not ask. But was also think Cory. But wonder if any of the other big YT sparks who've not done any/much solar work would be interested in doing a collaboration video with you, both leaning on the way kinda think, Adam, Chris CJR, pretty sure Davery Savery's answer would be a 'NO' (not his words). I'd hope when you do start doing this, it's not as bad as you expected and motivate you into exploring solar a bit more, it's an experience whichever way it goes.
Like youhave said to workers if not sure ask questions to gain the correct way to move forward Cory can assist you even if over the phone or video Link.
@@NBundyElectrical 3 tesla power walls and lots of solar panels.. but you can only fit 4 panels on the front of your garage... i wouldnt bother doing that in your storage unit.. 🙂
Hi Nick why bother with the change over switch . Buy a G98 certified hybrid inverter connect it to the mains . Notify dno with g98 form . Save you loads of hassle . What’s the azimuth at front of unit ?
Is that not a grid tied inverter? So it syncs to the mains it's not just gonna pump out 230v, you need panels, inverter and batteries to do something "off grid".
This is not a comment about your work habits, let's be clear about that matter. I see on many RUclips videos, of building restorations, building backyard sheds, renovations by DIYers and tradespeople - you get the idea. In those videos I see some dangerous and potential injuries from work practises. OHS has been around in Australia for decades and guess the same in the UK. Given the non OHS approved methods on these other channels, would you say OHS message has failed in many circumstances. Typically, improvising working platforms for a one off fitting of hardware because it is quicker, or the worker does not have the right equipment. While I could list a lot of examples I think the example of the "platform & ladder" sets the scene and not only applies to tradespeople but DIYers, or the man or woman around the house putting up a solar operated security camera on their house at roof level. (Sorry to be long winded, but I want to make clear people may work safely but spontaneously do one only procedure that is not safe, which is contrary to the adherence to OHS practise).
Cory’s your man for off grid victron stuff. Realistically you’d want a ‘proper’ solar system with a gateway and 3 phase inverter to take you off grid. But how often does the power go out when you are there?
I am no expert but would advise a little research before doing down the route of change over switches there is no need. Can’t believe some of what you have said. Simple measure the open circuit volts then measure the short circuit current on each panel in full sun. All the details are on the nameplate on the back of the panels. Can’t for the life of me see how you will use enough power to justify the expense unless you are going totally off grid and doing away with the incoming supply.
I think your OVER THINKING it but put it down on paper first I would get Callidus Wholesale to make you a board up that said just go camper van off grid kit as loads of cheap kit out there and you then don't mess with your electrics or pick up a Ecoflow smart home panel £900 wire that to one phase or it can take 2 phases plug in a delta pro when you can blag one Bingo switch it over on your phone ( no DNO ) and you only need 3-4 solar panels 👍
Would it not be possible to have all three phases on the single phase of the inverter/powerbank. If your not using any 3 phrase equipment i cant see it being an issue.
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The inverter from the solar farm will be grid tied and will need to see mains voltage, won't work in island mode.
Also given the low power usage and importance of the alarm systen i would just keep it on the mains. Saves the anxiety of questioning whether you switched the supply back over.
Great minds think alike ! Literally doing this at my unit at the moment. Good work nick 👊🏻
The suction cup joke 🤣
A manual changeover switch sounds like a recipe for disaster - what sort of a routine are you going to use for switching it? You'll have to constantly be aware of how charged the battery is and what the weather forecast is. If you're out on a job and the day isn't as sunny as you thought it was going to be you might end up losing power to your CCTV and alarm or have to travel back to the unit just to switch back to mains. Sounds like a right royal pain.
Sigenergy do a three phase stackable hybrid inverter and battery system with gateway that acts as a UPS - we’re installing one this week. Could be a good solution for you.
Thanks bud 🙌
Oh no, Artisan arrived on the project. Budget just went from £5k to £105k 🤣
Agreed Three Phase your best bet Nick.
Also looking to do a similar thing for my shed which has a perfect south facing roof which would take a good handful of panels. Would it be enough to generate power for my hot tub.... not sure? Glad you confirmed what I thought about regulations - nothing about it from what I could find (not a spark but I do hold a part P certificate). Seems to be a lot of DIY kits out there, so will be following what you do here Nick!
For the inverter, the Growatt MIC TL-X range have a very low minimum input voltage of 50V. I've just installed two of the 750W ones at home, each with a pair of 500W modules connected. They're the lowest input voltage I found easily.
Most inverters are primarily powered from the DC side, so whilst they won't output anything without the AC connected they should start up and display something provided you've got above the startup voltage.
On the island stuff, Voltimum did a webinar this week called "Battery Island mode, we are all at sea" which it might be worth you looking up.
you could use that 1-0-2 switch to command the coils on 3 phase contactors (1 for grid, 1 for solar); not sure about the uk regs if it allows a manual switchover without a interlocking feature in the setup; since it’s a small install, you could have a bluetti inverter power the main board, all the time, pv and grid both connected to the inverter as inputs, set the bluetti in pv priority mode and it will handle everything automaticaly - with enough sun and baterry capacity it will almost never use power from the grid
Disconnect 2 phases. Fit a link kit to make board single phase. Fit equipment and change over switch. Don't need to worry about the three phase then.
I agree, especially as Nick said there nothing in that unit to need three phases, then when he leaves he can restore it. What are you going to use to mount the panels to the unit wall Nick?
I'm surprised the landlord will let you damage to metalwork for the rails, guessing you will be using rivet nuts, or are you going to make up some sort of floor mounted frame to take the majority of the weight.
I waas intrigued to see the KT66DL on your bench as this time last year you bought the Megger X1. I must have missed what happened to the Megger or are you running both? I reaslly like my KT66DL and Ive got one of the packout boxes for the tester and leads bag, KEWEVA and 4 trays for lockoff kits etc.
If its a grid tied inverter its going to need grid voltage at the output terminals before it starts. Not sure if you had that?
Use Victron, it can run as UPS without any extra bits or get G98/G99 to grid tie. Victron inverters can be paralleled to make a 3PH system sharing the same battery bank if required further down the line.
Also if you run your "off-grid" system with no N-E bond then your inverter is acting as an isolation transformer. There is no L-E touch risk.
Loving this solar side project 😁 no advice but looking forward to seeing more vids 😎😎
If you don't have any three phase equipment bin of the 3phase and link through l1. Then you'll need a battery charge controller and inverter for off grid side there are some fairly cheap charge controller/inveter combos oilut there worth a punt. Just make sure the charge controller can take the input power from the panels lots of more campervan level stuff cant take a lot in which case you can use multiple.
Ok, wild card ... check if you really need a three phase supply in the unit. If you don't, either ask the DNO to remove two of them (That'll reduce your standing charge for starters), or set up your board so two phases are isolated and not used.
Now you've reduced your solar needs to essentially a single phase domestic set up.
I have 3 phase at home which I want to keep to allow for faster charhing of electric cars in the future. When I wired my solar up, i did it so that when the changeover switch is used it effectively converts my system to single phase which is fed from the hybrid inverter/battery. The rest of the time, i have a grid tie inverter on a single phase. In France you can feed in up to 3kW on a single phase of a 3 phase syatem and the smart meter counts total power usage across all 3 phases, so as long as I'm producing more on one phase than is being used in total by all 3 phases then my net consumption is 0.
Personally you're trying to do too much in a single system (from from an off grid / hobbyiest system to a full 3 phase!), decide whether you want to go AC or DC coupled, and single phase or 3 phase. I started with a DC coupled off grid system, which got a G99 approval, in the future may do AC coupled as and when neccesary.
Could you use an automatic transfer switch like what are used for lifts when there is a generator backup? I don’t know enough about them but it might be worth looking into.
Or, if it’s only for a lower load could you use a contactor with a 2 way switch that is then controlled by a Switchbot bot that is maybe linked to a light intensity monitoring device as in the Switchbot curtain or could you alternatively use a photocell output to energise the contractor to switch the supply to the solar when it is light enough, depending on the settings of the photocell?
Or steal back your brothers car charger and use the circuitry from that.
You could combine the phases on the changeover switch for possition 2 (PV/battery) as you dont have any 3ph equipment so would work fine.
Very good shout my man 👍 thank you
the problem with that is you may need to increase the size of your neutral conductor
Ok so. I installed my own solar system and before I did, had to do a lot of research. Since having my system which is small 3.1 kwp i’ve learned a lot. 3 455w panels is the absolute minimum for a Growatt min3000 inverter which switches on at 100v but will run once it’s on to 80v i think. I ended up adding a 4th panel to get it to turn on earlier in the morning and run later in the evening. I got that used off ebay for about £250. The smaller the inverter the lower the switch on voltage is what i learned. I should have got a 2500w one really.
If you series the panels to get the voltage you need then they will only perfom as well as the worst panel in the string so adding a broken one in there is a bad idea. You should put all the broken ones on a seperate mppt if you have one. The exception to this is if you use optimisers then you can put them all on one string.
I have 7 x 455w panels in total with tigo optimisers on a growatt 3000w inverter. 4 are south facing and 3 are north facing. I started off with them on seperate mppt’s then got optimisers and combined them both into one string it’s normal in the uk to have more w in panels than the rating on the inverter, which seems strange, but what you loose when the inverter clips (maxes out)in summer and high sun you gain from the earlier start up and later finish.
Hope that helps.
Just an electrical engineer (not a house basher)
Take what you want into a single phase board or remove the two phases and link out the main switch to make it single phase
I saw someone with solar panels talk about how some will shut off with a small area of the panel is covered/obstructed I'd check to see if those panels do that before installing
Hi Nick, I was forced to install my solar system a few months ago. I purchased a hybrid inverter, 5kw battery, panels and mounting system and struggled to find anyone prepared to install it.
Ended up fitting myself sort of off grid! It is all up and running and I am already looking to Improve.
I would be happy to have a call to give you honest information on my journey so far. Have you considered the micro inverter route at all? Let’s just say I started looking at optimisers to get a handle on my crazy PV generation as one of my improvements and found this would have been a perfect plug and play over the single inverter and panel strings?
FYI I am not an electrician but I am happy to share what I have discovered and where I why I am already looking to upgrade after such a short time of system ownership..
You should switch your supply over to single phase, your standing charges will be much less. You’re probably paying as much for standing charge as for consumed power!
If you are only using small number of panels per string. Please look down the Victron route as you can add and adapt over time.
Or give Cory at ØY electrical a shout to do a collaboration vid :)
Cheers bud
@@NBundyElectrical guy above has a good idea 💡 give cory a call get a joint video going will make for a good watch 😊 only problem I can see with the manual switch is any thing on L2 or L3 will be out of action while your off grid and you will have to be thinking about when you need to change over all time as battery's die 😉
That little bit of shade on the left of the panels will be dropping your voltage quite a lot, when I did the course they showed us the Volts produced in full sun then when he put just his hand over part of the panel it dropped by about a quarter, the full panel needs to be in full sun
Haha, we all know who you're trying to not ask. But was also think Cory. But wonder if any of the other big YT sparks who've not done any/much solar work would be interested in doing a collaboration video with you, both leaning on the way kinda think, Adam, Chris CJR, pretty sure Davery Savery's answer would be a 'NO' (not his words). I'd hope when you do start doing this, it's not as bad as you expected and motivate you into exploring solar a bit more, it's an experience whichever way it goes.
Your inverter needs AC and DC power to start up 👍
Island mode. Wouldn’t it be easier to instal a single phase board and put the changeover switch before that?
Heya Nick. Perhaps talk to Oval Renewables. They have been on other sparky channels and have their own channel. Cheers
Like youhave said to workers if not sure ask questions to gain the correct way to move forward
Cory can assist you even if over the phone or video Link.
The easiest way is to ditch the 3 phase use one of the phases, and get a link for the main switch, that's if you don't have anything 3 phase.
You also need to switch over the neutral. So you cant use L2 and L3 .. you will lose those lines
Oh yeah 😅 can you tell I’m a domestic spark, what would you recommend me in this situation?
@@NBundyElectrical 3 tesla power walls and lots of solar panels.. but you can only fit 4 panels on the front of your garage... i wouldnt bother doing that in your storage unit.. 🙂
Hi Nick why bother with the change over switch . Buy a G98 certified hybrid inverter connect it to the mains . Notify dno with g98 form . Save you loads of hassle . What’s the azimuth at front of unit ?
About 20 degree azimuth at front of unit !?! He's gonna need some n-type panels to make it worth the effort. Those broken panels need binning.
Don't run the broken panels at to higher voltage I would use them at 60-70volts max
Is that not a grid tied inverter? So it syncs to the mains it's not just gonna pump out 230v, you need panels, inverter and batteries to do something "off grid".
Okay, thanks mate. I’ll have a look. 👍
This is not a comment about your work habits, let's be clear about that matter. I see on many RUclips videos, of building restorations, building backyard sheds, renovations by DIYers and tradespeople - you get the idea. In those videos I see some dangerous and potential injuries from work practises. OHS has been around in Australia for decades and guess the same in the UK. Given the non OHS approved methods on these other channels, would you say OHS message has failed in many circumstances. Typically, improvising working platforms for a one off fitting of hardware because it is quicker, or the worker does not have the right equipment. While I could list a lot of examples I think the example of the "platform & ladder" sets the scene and not only applies to tradespeople but DIYers, or the man or woman around the house putting up a solar operated security camera on their house at roof level. (Sorry to be long winded, but I want to make clear people may work safely but spontaneously do one only procedure that is not safe, which is contrary to the adherence to OHS practise).
Hi nick why don’t you put all the circuits on one phase as you don’t use that much then you can run it all on and off line
Cory’s your man for off grid victron stuff. Realistically you’d want a ‘proper’ solar system with a gateway and 3 phase inverter to take you off grid. But how often does the power go out when you are there?
Never mate, it’s just all experimental dude
Good place to learn it. Might be just a good way to top up the battery packs saving 30p each time.
Give Stuart Cato a call. He’s the guru on solar
I am no expert but would advise a little research before doing down the route of change over switches there is no need. Can’t believe some of what you have said. Simple measure the open circuit volts then measure the short circuit current on each panel in full sun. All the details are on the nameplate on the back of the panels. Can’t for the life of me see how you will use enough power to justify the expense unless you are going totally off grid and doing away with the incoming supply.
Try asking Cory or Jordan, they are quiet good with that type of thing.
I would ask Cory, he really knows his stuff. Jordan is just a publicist
@@bernhertsthanks 😂
I think your OVER THINKING it but put it down on paper first I would get Callidus Wholesale to make you a board up that said just go camper van off grid kit as loads of cheap kit out there and you then don't mess with your electrics or pick up a Ecoflow smart home panel £900 wire that to one phase or it can take 2 phases plug in a delta pro when you can blag one Bingo switch it over on your phone ( no DNO ) and you only need 3-4 solar panels 👍
Would it not be possible to have all three phases on the single phase of the inverter/powerbank. If your not using any 3 phrase equipment i cant see it being an issue.
Hi Nick I have 2x second hand panels you are welcome to in my unit but am in northampton they are around 250w
Thanks mate, i’ll see how things go and I’ll come back to you
Hit up Cory Mac for a joint video. He has some experience in solar.
Can you not have a word with artisan electrics and see if they will offer some advice?
They already have......
An electrician that cannot measure the output voltage from a string of solar panels ?
Whatever next I wonder ?